User talk:ReaderofthePack/Archive 23

Please Help us Restore Rodleen's page
We are unfamiliar with how to use Wikipedia and we are concerned that Rodleen Getsic has been deleted from Wikipedia. I am sure if you look at the stats, her page had been visited thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of times. Her page now redirects to the horror film she produced, wrote, and starred in, but even that page does not have her picture (it shows Martyr in the death scene, not Bunny). Seeing the page for denomination - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Rodleen_Getsic_%282nd_nomination%29 - it seems to possibly have been deleted by people ganging up on her, as the film she made is very controversial and many people hate it.... So they erase her from Wikipedia? But you are an administrator so will you please take a moment to see what the article said before at least and help us to restore it because we like seeing it. In fact there is probably much more to add to it, and in time even more because she is awesome. Maybe some of the links were broken? Interviews and articles from early internet days.... Because Rodleen Getsic has been up on Wiki for a very long time. Please let me know what you think. If you can - email is best - because i do not know how to work this wiki but maybe in time i will figure it out more. Thank you!!! ⋆ i AM: wikigurrL comment added by (talk) 03:39, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Since Drmies is the one who closed the AfD, he's the one that you'd really need to talk to about this - he might be willing to move a copy of the article to WP:AfC for you. You'll need to show that Getsic has received coverage in independent and reliable sources for things other than the horror movie, as the general consensus at AfD was that this was the only thing for which she'd really received coverage. If he declines, you will have to request restoration via deletion review. I'd recommend that you sign up for an account rather than log in with an IP, since an IP made this edit to Getsic's AfD, where they tried to impersonate the person who started the AfD. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  03:47, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Looks like you do have an account, so I'm striking that last part. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  03:48, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Hmmm... Well, i am sure others will get involved in figuring this out. I just saw you and thought you might be able to help. Whoever initiated the process for deletion ignored the fact that there actually existed several "independent and reliable sources for things other than the horror movie" in her article. It is obvious, just take a look. I guess I will try to contact Afd? And also, probably other people will begin to notice or care. Rodleen has done a lot of work including singing with The Deftones. We will get this figured out! Thanks for your time. ⋆ i AM: wikigurrL  — Preceding unsigned comment added by WikiGurrrL (talk • contribs) 04:03, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Well... the thing to keep in mind is that not everything is considered a reliable source on Wikipedia. For example, at one point the article used IMDb as a source, but the problem with that is that the site is heavily reliant on user contributions. It's also considered to be a routine database listing, so the site in and of itself cannot show notability. Places like the BBFC are also considered to be database listings. It also used WP:PRIMARY sources, which means any sources released by Getsic, her agent, or anyone that is related to her. These can be used to back up basic details, but these cannot show notability. Some of the links were also dead links, which means that we're unable to verify the content. When looking for sources, make sure that you're careful to avoid self-published sources, which would be things like blog posts. These undergo little to no editorial oversight that Wikipedia can verify, so we can't use them to show notability. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  04:11, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes --what Tokyogirl says. Mind you, I don't believe in conspiracy theories, and that AfD discussion was clean as a whistle. There's no ganging up on anyone there. Now, what can restore this article is one thing: articles from reliable sources. I had a quick look at the biggest version of the now-deleted article, and I don't see any references to good sources in there. There's some blogs, there's some links to things about the movie, there's things like this, whatever that is, but nothing from reliable sources as defined in WP:RS. Now, if there are some, and Tokyogirl thinks there's something to it, I don't mind if that redirect becomes an article again; you don't need my blessing for it since I trust her judgment. But I browsed around real quick and besides the NYT article I can't find anything, so I think this is an uphill struggle. Drmies (talk) 04:42, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm sort of iffy about it, to be very honest. I'd prefer this to be an AfC draft since I seem to remember looking for sources myself and not really finding anything outside of the mentions of the Bunny Game. Still, I'll move it to AfC if is willing to work on it there. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  04:45, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Tokyogirl79 I have had very little time to devote to figuring out Wikipedia so far, but something that was brought to my attention is an example of why Rodleen's page should be restored. It was stated that many of the links are "broken" however these links can be found on The Way Back Machine. For instance, this entry formally in Rodleen's Wikipedia: "In some references, her voice is compared to Diamanda Galás[6] and Clare Torry of Pink Floyd's "Great Gig in the Sky."[7]" had a "broken" link on reference number 7. But - find that the article referencing Rodleen's work on still exists at https://web.archive.org/web/20091016065604/http://reveillemag.com/columns/warp-weft/warp-weft-deftones-white-pony. I am positive this same kind of thing can be done for much of what was written about Rodleen's career. What do you think? And I wonder what Drmies thinks? Thank you for your time. ⋆ i AM: wikigurrL WikiGurrrL (talk) 01:27, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Earlier in this post, I meant to say: The Wayback Machine. WikiGurrrL (talk) 01:42, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Also, Drmies, that link you referenced, this is archive.org happens to be the Internet Archive - and if you scroll down, you see many recordings of Rodleen's music. WikiGurrrL (talk) 02:03, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Hello? TokyoGirl - please respond? WikiGurrrL (talk) 03:30, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
 * WikiGurrrL, can you provide sourcing for Getsic for something other than The Bunny Game? That's predominantly what Drmies needs in order for him to be able to restore the article. (He's the closing admin so this would basically need to go through him.) The link that you posted looks to just be things that Getsic has posted herself and inclusion in the archive isn't something that would give notability in and of itself. We need coverage in independent and reliable sources that covers her non-BG work. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  03:55, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't see why it needs to go through me, though I see now there's a complication: you moved it to Draft:Rodleen Getsic, and I suppose that's a new variation on "userfying". Now, that page was nominated as WP:G4 by and deleted by, but G4 has a specific condition: "This excludes pages that are not substantially identical to the deleted version, pages to which the reason for the deletion no longer applies, and content moved to user space or converted to a Draft for explicit improvement" (my bolding). In other words, it shouldn't have been nominated and deleted under G4. I don't care for passing the buck here and I'll be happy to restore to a draft or to user space, but I think Mackensen shouldn't have deleted it. Again, article viability doesn't rest on procedure but on reliable sources and notability, but we didn't follow the proper procedure here. So in the meantime (don't know if this is really the "mean" time, because that suggest it's going places) I'm just going to restore it. Drmies (talk) 14:49, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
 * , I don't know if the article was improperly deleted, however, I do know it was already and appropriately merged with The Bunny Game before the second deletion (of the draft). The article was a nothing BLP.  No real references (except in relation to The Bunny Game).  It was a puff piece (I suspect it was written by the article subject and/or a friend of the article subject) that was filled with unproven and improperly referenced accolades and many of the references were primary and written by the article subject herself.  Nothing of substance or notability can be found on the article subject aside from her appearance on the film (a low budget independent scream film).  It was merged the first time with good reason - no notability.  The draft was deleted as (I assume) a rewrite and exact duplicate of the originally deleted article.  What is the purpose of doing this all over again?  There will still be nothing acceptable reference-wise on this person.  Seems like a waste of Wikipedia space and editor time and that it will just be up for deletion again. -- WV ● ✉ ✓  15:45, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
 * It was a draft, and drafts are exempt from G4... I agree with you on the article, but that's beside the point. I got stuff in my user space that will probably never see the light of day, but if it does, I'll be ready. I mean, you think Knút Háberg Eysturstein will never make the big time, but who knows... Drmies (talk) 16:05, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I have no objection to being reversed. I'm not especially familiar with the good-faith draft exception to G4, and I would have expected that it applied only in cases where userfication was the outcome of the deletion discussion, but I don't feel strongly on the matter. Cheers, Mackensen (talk) 19:25, 9 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I'd moved it because WikiGurrl wanted to work on it (it sounded like she had access to sources that weren't on the Internet) and I didn't think that it'd have been a huge issue if I'd moved it. Basically why I asked her to contact you is this: she can work on it and when she has provided coverage for non-Bunny Game work, she can contact you and ask if it's ready. The biggest issue here is that I don't know if non-BG sources really exist. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  15:20, 10 October 2015 (UTC)


 * They don't exist. Believe me, I looked and tried to do what I could to make the article work -- but there just is nothing out there that is not extremely primary and really old as well is irrelevant.  Getsic simply does not have the notability needed to satisfy Wikipedia policy and guidelines for a standalone BLP article.  -- WV ● ✉ ✓  15:38, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Hey, TokyoGirl, Drmies, and WV,

I found some links for Rodleen Getsic's career - separate from The Bunny Game. These references were found quickly and easily by searching the internet, and I'm sure there are a lot more:

Rodleen Getsic on Deftones platinum album "White Pony"

Rodleen Getsic on Tommy Lee album "Never A Dull Moment"

Rodleen Getsic on Tommy Lee album "Never A Dull Moment"

Rodleen Getsic on Tommy Lee album "Never A Dull Moment

Rodleen Getsic on Fermin Muguruza album with Aztlan Underground "Brigadistak Sound"

Rodleen Getsic on Knife Party, voice compared to Pink Floyd's "Great Gig in the Sky"

Rodleen Getsic on MOUR album "SO"

Getsic on Random Rab's album "Vissureal" and Rodleen Getsic on Random Rab's album "Release"

Other career and public service references:

Cine-Excess

Go Vegan Radio interview

career interview

WikiGurrrL (talk) 22:07, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Doing a quick look, I note that there are primary sources, unreliable sources, dead links, and a Wikipedia article. None are acceptable for sourcing or are valid to establish notability. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 22:41, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Hey WV,     None of the links are dead, the ones I gathered (above). I do not understand what you mean by "primary sources" and what makes these unreliable? Why are you so quick to disregard this person, instead you could work to find reason as to how come she is notable. TokyoGirl, you asked me to find other things Rodleen Getsic is known for other than The Bunny Game. I am showing you. Since she was on Deftones White Pony album in 2000, she has been featured in many articles and interviews.

Which one of the links above that I listed could work as a reliable source?

What makes a source reliable?

Will you help to FIND and establish reliable sources for Rodleen Getsic's work?

Thanks WikiGurrrL (talk) 00:40, 13 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Please read WP:REF for an explanation regarding reliable sources. Please also read WP:NOTABILITY to understand what makes an individual notable enough for a Wikipedia article.  Please read WP:PRIMARY to understand what primary sources are and how they are not really acceptable.  And yes, there was at least one dead link that returned a 404 ERROR message.  As far as finding sources that meet Wikipedia standards, after reading the above articles I included here for you, perhaps you will better understand why finding acceptable sources is nearly impossible for Getsic.  And just so you know, its really no one's obligation to search for and find said links/reliable soyrces.  Further, if none or not enough are found, you will probably have to give up, realizing not everyone who has done something musically or has been interviewed meets Wikipedia's standards for notability.  If that ends up being the case with Getsic, there will be no article here on her.  Sorry if that happens, because I can tell you really want it to happen.  -- WV ● ✉ ✓  00:59, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

WV

The link that was "dead" above is actually not dead (it was a typo).

Reality Sandwich Article: Rodleen on Random Rab album "Vissureal"

And the article from Reveille Magazine's article on Getsic is found in The Wayback Machine, the Web Archive.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080723120736/http://www.reveillemag.com/columns/warp-weft/warp-weft-deftones-white-pony

If that link doesn't work, you can find the article by going to www.archive.org and entering http://www.reveillemag.com/columns/warp-weft/warp-weft-deftones-white-pony

WikiGurrrL (talk) 02:32, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Both Reality Sandwich and Reveille Magazine only mention Getsic as having provided vocals on one song each. Neither mention establishes notability and mean nothing other than she appeared minimally on someone's album. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 02:45, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Arbitrary break
Dear WV, Drmies, Tokyogirl79 and anyone else interested in this conversation,

The way you word things is actually quite demeaning WV. "Mean Nothing"? This is your opinion.

The reality is that because Getsic is mentioned in several articles around the world, she is a notable person. It is not only a "mention" either. Getsic has won several awards for the film she produced, wrote, and starred in. Earlier in this conversation WV - you demean her work by saying she merely made an "appearance" on the film which you call "a low budget independent scream film". Again, your opinion. The reality is she is the notable person in several articles worldwide for her work on this film alone.

But let's talk about her music career. Getsic is featured in articles worldwide for her specialized notable singing. She is on a Grammy Award winning record that is multi-platinum. This alone should warrant her a Wikipedia article.

In the following articles she is not only mentioned, but compared to other notable singers, for her appearance on Deftones White Pony album. I have also provided the copy from the articles which note her special mention.

Date of Article: April 30, 2008
 * Reveille Magazine

"...'Knife Prty' vaults the confusion and menace of "Street Carp" into the stratosphere with spine-tingling vocals from performance artist Rodleen Getsic that recall Pink Floyd's "Great Gig in the Sky"—if that song were doused in gasoline and lit on fire."

Date of Article: July 1, 2015
 * Clash Magazine

"A distinct air of progressive rock descended, with the track ‘Knife P(a)rty’ going so far as to actually riff on Pink Floyd’s ‘The Great Gig In The Sky’ with its soar-away vocals from the guesting Rodleen Getsic."

Date of Article: August 21, 2015
 * Dallas Observer

"Moreno bade us all get our knives for a good old-fashioned 'Knife Party' before contorting his voice later in the track into both his regular vocals and the guest-scream vocals, which were done on the White Pony album by the Quadraphonics' Rodleen Giecek."

Date of Article: February 10, 2008
 * Pit5

"'Knife Prty' (sic) features a stunning, Diamanda Galás-like vocal performance by Rodleen, and a conceit to make Borges proud: a secret society of knife fighters... ...White Pony later went on to earn multi-platinum status as well as a Grammy award for Best Metal Performance."

I hope this provides reason to restore Getsic's Wikipedia article. WikiGurrrL (talk) 21:24, 16 October 2015 (UTC)


 * My comments are not meant to be demeaning to anyone, . My comments are in line with Wikipedia policy and guidelines on what constitutes notability per Wikipedia.  It appears from what you have said just today, your idea of notability still isn't Wikipedia's idea of notability.  If you read the article on notability for Wikipedia purposes, you would see the discrepancy.  It appears you have not read the article.  If you have, please read it again so you can better understand where I and those who voted to delete Giecek's article the first time are all coming from.  Our interests lie in what is best for Wikipedia.  Please understand, Wikipedia doesn't exist for those whom articles are written about, it exists for readers.  Our edits are (supposed) to be with readers in mind.  Further, because Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, our goals for Wikipedia are to be for readers to have encyclopedic content and information at their fingertips.  It is not meant to be an online resume for living article subjects. It is not meant to contain what one would find in a fan magazine or a fan website.  Generally speaking, those websites have lower standards of notability, content inclusion, and editorial oversight.  Wikipedia is a different ballgame altogether.  Question: are you just a fan or are you in any way related to Giecek personally as a friend, family member - or, are you Giecek herself?  -- WV ● ✉ ✓  21:32, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Why don't you just rewrite the article, with all these references you found, keep it neutral, and submit it through WP:AFC? It may be a while before someone goes through it, but at least you'll get an opinion from someone who is not us. Drmies (talk) 23:05, 16 October 2015 (UTC)


 * , is your comment directed to me or to ? The indenting causes me to think you were responding to me, but that doesn't make sense since I don't think the article should exist. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 23:09, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Not to you--force of habit. Drmies (talk) 02:50, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Mike Stanley
Hi Tokyogirl. Working on the Mike Stanley Filmmaker to add a reference I found and messed things up a bit. Somehow my reference list got moved to External Links. I took this project on as extra credit for school and am finding it very difficult. Anyway, I found a couple of references that may be what you need for completion of this article. http://moviefeast.blogspot.com/2010/08/bloody-nightmares-24-dead-is-dead-1992.html and http://dailygrindhouse.com/thewire/podcast-daily-grindhouse-presents-no-budget-nightmares-dead-is-dead-1992/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Indiefanatic (talk • contribs) 19:58, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Indiefanatic, Movie Feast can't be used to show notability since it's a blog (WP:SPS), but I'm not sure about the Daily Grindhouse. I'm familiar with it, but I'm not sure if it'll hold up at RS/N. Still, I know that they're quoted in other places and I also know that they don't accept article content from just anyone... I'm going to go ahead and consider that one usable. If anyone asks, I can say that they were quoted in this academic text (on Halloween), so the DG coverage should hold up overall as a RS. This should be enough to satisfy most in the mainspace, so I'll go ahead and accept it to the mainspace. Good work finding this! Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  03:07, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Metcalfep/sandbox - un deletion issues
Hi. Firstly, apologies if I am not using correct method for responding to your points re the above draft article. Thank you for your response. To address your points: - as the grandson of the subject I do have a conflict of interest and am happy to mention this on my user page for visibility. It is purely on the basis that I am a member of the subject's family and I do not stand to gain in any way by publishing this article. I simply regard his pioneering road race activity in Northern Ireland as notable and worthy of publication. - I sought un deletion in March with the intention of correcting the issues raised but I was subsequently very busy with my job and family and procrastinated too long. I do still intend to correct the issues raised. - if you accept the above and un delete the article, as a total newcomer to Wikipedia I, no doubt, will require some further assistance but I believe there is sufficient independent verification of Norman Metcalfe's activities, in addition to family archive, to warrant publication and an opportunity to submit a second draft would be appreciated. Thank you Metcalfep (talk) 07:23, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Pyaar Ka Punchnama 2
Serious vandalism going on here. I asked for page semi-protection yesterday which was ignored. The movie was released this Friday. Semi-protect for two months, please!. And also spamming of new websites which i removed yesterday.--The Avengers (talk) 07:18, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
 * The Avengers, The vandalism isn't huge-huge, so I'm going to only protect this for a week to start off. After that, once/if it starts up again, I'll protect it for longer. I don't want to go too heavy with the protection straight off. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  07:27, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you don't know Hindi swear words which were used here.--The Avengers (talk) 08:29, 18 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Well... the problem is that I don't want to give it too big of a protection too quickly, given that the vandalism was all fairly recent and this is the first protection. We're supposed to start small with protection times unless there are huge BLP concerns, like someone trying to add in death threats or allegations that something unsavory happened during production, like murder, rape, or that sort of thing. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  08:46, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

GA nominee
Hai, I have nominated the film article Loham for GA-status. Which is currently on "Hold on" time and there are some corrections to be done before it ends. Mainly copy editing for grammer and writting style. For making it a good article there are some suggestions referred in Talk:Loham. I invite you to make your contributions to it.--Charles Turing (talk) 08:51, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Help me remove my rejected draft article "Voluntary Principles on Security and Human Rights"
Hi Tokyogirl79 - you reviewed and rejected my draft article "voluntary Principles on Security and Human Rights". I thought it was a pretty good start at an article that others could contribute to, but if that doesn't meet Wikipedia's standards then I think I should leave it to others to properly start the article. I have deleted the material I put it - but I am not sure how to delete the draft article itself so it doesn't clutter up the drafts - can you delete the draft article for me, or send me some guidance on how to do that? (I agree with your suggestions of what would be good to clarify and expand on in the article, but feel me doing that in the draft will just set it up for the next editor to reject because they would like some other improvements, think this needs someone more Wikipedia savvy) Thanks DiligentDavidG (talk) 14:31, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
 * DiligentDavidG, I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water just yet. The thing about making articles is that it's expected that the article creator will establish notability and the basics of the article prior to it getting published in the mainspace, whether it's done via AfC or through other avenues. Part of the major reason for this is that while hopefully other editors will come in and help improve the article, this doesn't always happen. There are a lot of situations where people have come in and deleted an article rather than improved it. Sometimes this is done because the person genuinely can't find notability giving sources (despite them being out there), but I've seen people nominate articles without having done a search because they're just too lazy to improve things and they assumed that if nobody else added sources, then they don't exist. I think that this article has a good start, it just needs to have some aspects of it fleshed out and explained and better sources added. It's going to be more work, but less work than it'd be to just restart it. I can delete the article if you want, but I'd prefer that you continue to work on it since I do think it can pass guidelines as a whole. If you want, I can drop a line at WikiProject Companies asking for help. I know that this isn't a company, but the organization WikiProject is only semi-active, which means that it's almost dead. WikiProject Philosophy would also be good as well, and the WP:TEAHOUSE is always staffed with someone willing to provide help. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  07:11, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your response - I am happy to leave the draft for now and I might come back to it. I do appreciate that you took the time to find the additional references - I have made a note of them in my background document, so they won't be lost if someone deletes the draft ... this topic is referenced in 14 other Wikipedia articles, at some point I will try again on it (I have the draft article backed-up in a Word document). DiligentDavidG (talk) 13:58, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Yu Yeon Kim
You have moved the name form of curator, Yu Yeon Kim to "Kim Yu-yeon". Please note that the curator is known internationally by the form "Yu Yeon Kim" in all the exhibitions and articles she has authored. This can also be verified by checking the curator's website - referenced on the page Yu Yeon Kim. While there may be a convention for rendering Korean names in English, this does not warrant changing an established name. We would be grateful if you would revert your move and we would further like the name form "Yu Yeon Kim" protected from further moves or revisions. Thank you. Sappo (talk) 18:30, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
 * The reason I'd changed the name was as part of a bulk request by Finnusertop with the comment "Family name first. Hyphen and capitalization per guideline. WP:NCKO". There had been a consensus to hyphenate names and list the last name first, so this was one of those names. It looks like this had also been moved by Sawol. Since there's a chance that they might contest this, I'd prefer greatly that you ask them first or open up a move request at the article's talk page. If this is her WP:COMMONNAME then this would be a strong argument for moving the page, but I'd prefer that you get a consensus to move first. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  03:28, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
 * *A discussion is already underway regarding this matter on the talk page of the article on Yu Yeon Kim or "Kim Yu-yeon" as she is now referred to thanks to your edit. Following your logic perhaps you should also move, as another user suggested, Nam Jun Paik to Baek Nam-jun just so it conforms to the dictates of WP:NCKO or would that not make sense to you?  To quote another user quoting a notice at the top of the page  on  WP:NCKO: "it is best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply".  Common sense obviously did not prevail here in your haste to change the commonly used name of this internationally renowned curator. Sappo (talk) 04:11, 21 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Please assume better faith from other people. I've asked that you discuss this on the talk page and you're currently doing this and it looks likely that it will be moved. On a side note, I have to say this... you coming on to my page and being extremely derogatory towards me doesn't really accomplish much and comes across as pretty WP:UNCIVIL. I'm sorry that this upset you so much, but that's no excuse for you to be rude. I made a move that was eventually seen as controversial and knowing that it's likely to be contested by the person who requested the move in the first place, I asked that you go through a formal discussion. This way if they do try to contest this in the future, people can always point to this formal request. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  04:20, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Basically, even if I moved it back, they would have been likely to contest this and try to move it again. A successful move request makes it extremely unlikely that they - or anyone else- will be able to move it again any time in the future unless things dramatically change. I know that bureaucracy can be aggravating, but this move request will ensure that any other attempts to move the name will be unsuccessful because now you will have a discussion to point back to. This gives it extra protection. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  04:23, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

thanking you for the help I needed for the Brianne Siddall article, and the progress so far

 * Hi there, I just wanted to thank you for the help on the article earlier, cause lately, nobody has any need interest of reviving this article, but the way you stated on why this article should be restored, makes me feel so impressed on how much you reacted to this, and yet at the same time, it motivates me to continue on doing this, which reminds me, here's the progress on the Brianne Siddall aticle so far, tell me what ya think, ok?! :) Norozco1 (talk) 22:04, 17 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Looks good so far - I'm going to try arguing a different route on the talk page. Basically, I think that if a review for one of Siddall's works has received coverage and mentioned dubbing, it should be counted towards notability - especially if her character is highlighted in the review. I've added one for .hack and I'll look to see if I can find one for Samurai X or the other ones. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 


 * Great, glad to here it, and i'll be doing the finale changes later, so I hope you'll like the results of my work, ok! :) Norozco1 (talk) 14:52, 18 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Hey there, I know that you're busy and everything, but I finished with the filmography part, now all I have to do is to put is a biography, career, recognition, and personal life, and it has to be something similar to Kari Wahlgren's, only the details of it has to be about Brianne Siddall, which is exactly what AngusWOOF just mention on the talk page, so any thoughts about his statement?! :-/ Norozco1 (talk) 23:38, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

A kitten for you!
For a cute UserName! Could you please remove my enlisting at the courses. I tried to enroll yesterday or the day-before but they didn't seem much helpful. One had ended in 2013!

And regarding that Page Curation tool; Do I have to manually find New Pages Feed by searching/ from the left side Panel(Special Pages) and then Browsing? And it seems I can only insert Stub template, not the Category using that.. FindMeLost (talk) 06:32, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Edit-a-Thon at UVa!
Hi there! I'm so excited you'll be coming to our edit-a-thon. I think you might have also been at the recent WikiCon in DC? I'd love to meet up to talk more about your work on Wikipedia as well as pick your brain for how to publicize our own event --Ftripodi (talk) 14:27, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Assignment
Thanks we can use all the help possible! Although this is the second time teaching the course with the Wikipedia assignment, I had a great TA that helped a lot. Currently the students are preparing the drafts for their entries and then they will have an opportunity to edit one another's drafts prior to shifting things from the sandbox.

--ProfDRS (talk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ProfDRS (talk • contribs) 18:46, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

18:12:39, 22 October 2015 review of submission by Judtrap
Hi,

I'm changing the first footnote to a credible source (GuideStar which is a non-profit database). Would that be enough to accept the submission? We cut it down a lot since the last one. Thanks!
 * Unfortunately databases can't be used towards notability since they're considered to be so routine. I'd say that the type of source you should be looking for are things like news coverage or maybe academic coverage of the fellowship. I'll see if I can find something, but I'll warn you that this week is going to be a bit hectic since I have a big assignment due this week. If I don't get to it soon, feel free to ask for help at WP:TEAHOUSE since I know that there's always someone there. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  10:52, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

23:39:12, 23 October 2015 review of submission by Valisakr
Hello, sorry but my article contents enough of sources. I saw hundreds of articles on Wiki, where is not even one good source It is absolutely novelty of mental and sport approaching to athletes. What kind of sources you mean I should complete? This is kind of revolution of sport and business education. We have to start with this article and keep working on other sources which are going to come. I thought Wiki is more accesible for people who wants to educate people.

Thank you for understanding.

Best regards. Michal Hornicek
 * , the sources are not enough to show notability. The first source is a print-on-demand company and most books released through these companies are considered to be unusable, as many do not undergo any sort of editorial oversight. Being published in general doesn't automatically mean that a source can be used, as you have to show that the publisher is one that is known for thorough editorial oversight and is well thought of in its field - this is usually very difficult to accomplish. Even the book itself originally being published in the early 1900s doesn't mean much. It wasn't insanely easy to get published, but you could do it if you had enough money. In any case, the problem here is that Watson was the first to come up with this, so he's essentially the creator. You need to show where his concepts were covered in independent and reliable sources. Option Sigma isn't usable as a source and to be honest, could be considered a merchant source since it's trying to sell you something. The third source is fairly dodgy since Yumpu is a digital publisher and doesn't seem to really have any editorial oversight. It's about the same as self-publishing. (WP:SPS) Also, the article does need some editing for tone since there is a bit of a WP:PUFFERY tone to it, but the biggest issue is the sourcing.
 * What you need to find here are things like newspaper coverage of mental supremacy or coverage of it in academic journals known for editorial oversight. As far as other articles, go, the existence of other articles does not mean that all articles should exist. (WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS) Sometimes those articles fail notability guidelines and just haven't been deleted yet. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  11:03, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Epom Ad Server
Hi, I've gathered multiple sources and re-written the text for Epom Ad Server. You said I could come to you for help, and when creating a new page, Wikipedia suggests contacting the previous deleter to discuss the re-creation of the page. Could you please let me know if I can create the page again? YeonJKim (talk) 21:35, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Hello, Tokyogirl79
 * I've submitted my revised version of the Epom Ad Server article into the draft space. Could you help me out with making the article better?
 * YeonJKim (talk) 11:42, 26 October 2015 (UTC)


 * YeonJKim, I'm a little behind this week because of an assignment but I'll try to take a look at it later! Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  11:03, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Urumbukal Urangarilla
Hey! Again, I'll need a favor... Could you please move 'Urumbukal urangarilla' to 'Urumbukal Urangarilla'? Only an administrator can do it. Thanks! JosephJames 07:20, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Done! Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  10:49, 27 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you again! JosephJames 11:19, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

help desk - Easter
Hello Tokyogirl79, as you have been active on that issue before (I saw your post on the edit filter forum), this help desk thread from a seemingly concerned new editor is probably of interest for you. Just a notification fyi. Best regards. GermanJoe (talk) 21:56, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I've opened up an SPI and alerted the help desk to this. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  10:48, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for handling that. There was like a 5 percent chance for a good faith question (that's why I preferred to notify you here rather than on the help desk). But the whole situation was quite obvious considering the history. GermanJoe (talk) 17:26, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Guputa1111 SPI
Hello Tokyogirl79, just wondering if you know why this Guputa1111 SPI has not been actioned in over one month? Is it just lack of available Admins? Thanks, JMHamo (talk) 15:27, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
 * JMHamo, not sure really - it looks like might have just been forgotten? In my opinion it looks to be an obvious WP:DUCK scenario. I'll post a note on the SPI talk page about this. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  15:44, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually, let me ping on this. It looks like he was the one taking care of the case and it'd be better to ask him about it first. I see on his talk page that he's been fairly busy lately (goodness knows I understand where he's coming from with that), so I figure I'll wait a day or so before bringing it up on the SPI talk page. I may not really be back on Wikipedia for another day or two, though, so if you don't see any movement on it or anything on this talk page from myself or Vanja, feel free to drop a line at the SPI talk page yourself. In any case, good catch on this! I actually forgot about this myself, to be honest. School is kicking my butt this semester big time. (sighs) Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  15:50, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Halloween cheer!


Happy Halloween!

Hello Tokyogirl79: Thanks for all of your contributions to improve Wikipedia, and have a happy and enjoyable Halloween!   –  North America1000 23:39, 31 October 2015 (UTC) Send Halloween cheer by adding {{subst:Happy Halloween}} to user talk pages with a friendly message. Sent to users on my mailing list. To opt-out forever, just remove your name.

22:27:55, 3 November 2015 review of submission by Ant-article
Okay, I see where you are coming from but he is as notable as President Obama. How many people do you think can do what he did? He can not only do those things but he has insisted on keeping his identity a secret and refusing to be interviewed by many by many twitch and youtube streamers.
 * The coverage must be in a place that Wikipedia would consider reliable. Like I said on the draft, most hackers and web personalities will not gain coverage in places Wikipedia would consider reliable - especially since most will not want this type of coverage and will want to keep themselves as private as possible, as is the case here. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  15:09, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Old page, recreated
Would you be willing to take a look at Necronomicon Providence and the version deleted after WP:Articles for deletion/Necronomicon Providence to verify if the newer one is a substantial copy? Thanks! VQuakr (talk) 06:11, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * The text is somewhat similar, but not completely so. The biggie here is the sourcing, which is slightly better than the prior version of the article. If you want, I can restore the history or do a cut/paste into a sandbox somewhere. My biggest concern is that some of the sources, namely this and this are pretty much press releases and this one is brief and on a site that may not necessarily be a RS on here. This one looks to be a blog. The others on the page are usable, though, and this source from the old article could be used as a RS. There was this, but I can't remember if the book was considered usable or not. Offhand I'd say that there's enough to assert notability as a whole for the convention now since these sources are usable. It'd be a weak keep on my end, but it should be just enough with the AdWeek/GalleyCat source, I think. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  14:06, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * It does need to be cleaned up for its promotional tone, which is something that LadyLovecraft needs to be careful about. Also (since I've tagged her here), she will need to disclose her conflict of interest in this situation since I get a very strong impression that she is involved with the conference. She can still edit, but she does need to disclose this and be careful of promotional tones since the article contains things like "we" and "exciting". Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  14:10, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Yikes. It's copyvio from here. I'm going to move it to the userspace and try to work on it with her tonight at work. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  14:10, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

You've Got Mail!
Hope we can connect soon Ftripodi (talk) 14:47, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Hybrids
Can you help with the Hybrids Films page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.38.157.176 (talk) 13:45, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Sure - I'll try to dig up some sourcing. Some of it might not be accessible because I tend to like to use my schools' databases, though. If you sign up with an account that has an e-mail enabled I might be able to send you some of the content that I'm able to cut/paste into the e-mail system here, though. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  06:25, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

AFC creation help
Hello, I'm just going to paste in the lede from your article and describe what I think would want changing and why

Geophysical signal recognition and analysis is concerned with the detection and a subsequent processing of signals. good - but could get the words 'to extract data' at the end

Any signal which is varying conveys valuable information. not a main part of the article - so remove

Hence to understand the information embedded in such signals, we need to 'detect' and 'extract data' from such quantities. this sounds like an essay - and is already in your first sentence - so remove

Geophysical signals are of extreme importance to us let the reader decide that for themselves - it sounds like an essay - so remove

as they are information bearing signals which carry data related to the oil deposits beneath the earth and the seismic data. replace with - are used for finding oil deposits and other mineral wealth

Geophysical signal analysis offers a definite possibility to effectively tap the vast reserves of invaluable elements beneath the earth’s crust. remove entirely - no new facts in the statement

Apart from this possibility, analysis of geophysical signals also offers us a qualitative insight into the possibility of occurrence of a natural calamity such as earthquake, volcanic eruption. replace with and investigating geological structures related to earthquakes and volcanoes

so you get left with

''Geophysical signal recognition and analysis is concerned with the detection and a subsequent processing of signals to extract data. Geophysical signals are used for finding oil deposits and other mineral wealth and investigating geological structures related to earthquakes and volcanoes.'' that kind of thing - does that help at all ? EdwardLane (talk) 13:15, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
 * EdwardLane, a little, but you've got to remember that I know little to nothing about this topic so I have to honestly say that I'm not the best person to edit and clean the article, which is now in the mainspace. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  04:19, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

12:33:23, 16 November 2015 review of submission by Quirkymovies
The article currently has plenty of sources referenced. What more would you like? Previous reviewers have not highlighted this as an issue. It certainly has more references that most short films on Wikipedia.
 * While the article did have sources, most were not the type that would show notability. There were a lot of sources, but having a lot of sources that don't count towards notability doesn't accomplish anything, to be very honest. I'm aware that neither of the prior reviewers (SwisterTwister, Wikiisawesome) specifically highlighted the issue with the sources, but the problems are as follows:
 * A large bulk of the sources you gave were for things that do not count towards notability per WP:NFILM. These were notifications of film festival screenings or things that covered people/events that did not actually pertain to the film. For example, in the trivia section you added sources that weren't about the film. (Per WP:TRIVIA, trivia sections in general shouldn't be in articles.) These cannot show notability, nor could the sources you added to the award section that discussed that certain judges were part of Enter the Pitch. This leads to the next point:
 * Notability is not inherited (WP:NOTINHERITED) by notable persons taking part in the film or having an association with the film in any context. This just makes it more likely that there will be coverage, but it's not a guarantee. It seemed like you were using a lot of sources to show how the judges and some of the people involved were notable, but you don't need to establish their notability - you need to establish the film's notability. Also, adding a ton of unnecessary links and name dropping other projects that they've done (which don't pertain to Derelict) has the side effect of making the article seem promotional, like it's part of a press release to sell the film.
 * Festival screenings are only a sign of notability when the film has screened five years after its initial release, otherwise it's considered to be routine for films to screen at festivals. Release/screenings in and of itself is not a sign of notability, although it does make it more likely that there would be coverage.
 * The article contained promotional language like "boasts". This wouldn't have been as bad except that it was paired up with sourcing that didn't actually pertain to the film and attempts to name drop what various judges have done - things that you typically see in press releases.
 * The film did win a pitch competition, but I don't see where this competition would really be notable enough to pass on that criteria alone, since that's the only other thing that the film has going for it other than the film screenings. (Which again, cannot count towards notability except for in one specific circumstance.) Awards have to be pretty major (think Oscars) in order to give notability on that basis alone. The award really didn't seem to be all that notable to where it'd give even partial notability. If the article had been in the mainspace and went to AfD, I'm almost certain that it wouldn't be considered as something that would give notability. I'm willing to see it as at least slightly able to give notability, but I wouldn't stake notability on that alone since I don't think that people at AfD would see it as notability giving.
 * The article did not contain any of the other sources that Wikipedia would typically consider to be notability giving, like articles, interviews, or reviews in reliable sources like newspapers. The film had passing, WP:TRIVIAL mentions in papers saying that it was going to screen, but nothing that was really in-depth. Most of the mentions were either 1-2 sentences or were reprints of plot material from an official press release - not the type of thing that Wikipedia considers to be in-depth. It also didn't help that they were all in routine notifications of showings at film festivals.
 * If you could find coverage like interviews or reviews in places Wikipedia would consider usable, then it could pass. It would need at least 2-3 reviews and if possible, an article (not a press release or a notification that it was screening prior to 2015/2016) that talks about the film. I also get the strong impression that you're likely the film director or someone involved with the film, so my best recommendation would be for you to try to get the short into a film festival. The more notable the better, but all that matters is that it's screened in a film festival - it doesn't have to be a major one. It could even be a local, small film festival - the criteria doesn't say how big or notable it has to be, which is something you can use to your advantage. Heck, even just a showing at a theater would do, as long as there's record of this somewhere, since that'd qualify as a commercial re-release. Once you have that, it'll pass on that criteria alone until/unless NFILM grows more strict. There are some film festivals out there that specifically do shorts and I'm sure that at least one of them would be willing to screen it as a favor if you explain the situation. Most theater people are decent like that. You could probably try the Manhattan Short Film Festival or any of the other types out there. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  14:24, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

Sonia (name)
Please semi-protect this page.--Galaxy Kid (talk) 15:39, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Galaxy Kid, it looks like it's stopped for the time being so I don't know that page protection is entirely needed, but I'll try to keep an eye on it. It looks like it's one specific IP address, so if they vandalize again then I may just try blocking the specific editor first. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  05:02, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Today Lena (name) had a fan. Is there any connection with the IP.?--Galaxy Kid (talk) 12:43, 17 November 2015 (UTC)


 * There's some similarity but I don't know that it's necessarily the same person. I'm going to assume not, given the difference of writing. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  04:54, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

deleted page Draft:A century of fighting bushfires in the Australian Capital Territory: 1915 - 2015
06:12, 20 November 2015 Tokyogirl79 (talk | contribs) deleted page Draft:A century of fighting bushfires in the Australian Capital Territory: 1915 - 2015 (G12: Unambiguous copyright infringement of http://www.firebreak.com.au/act-limestone_plains.html)

Hello, I am querying your deletion, you state (G12: Unambiguous copyright infringement of http://www.firebreak.com.au/act-limestone_plains.html), I am confused the webpage you refer to is actually a page I have created and have maintained since 1994, so can I ask that you undelete the above Draft, and allow me to make sure the information on www.firebreak.com.au meets the Wikipedia copyright guidelines

thankyou Grumpy fire (talk) 01:28, 21 November 2015 (UTC) Grumpyfire
 * Grumpy fire, I don't mind undeleting it, but you'll need to do one or both of the following:
 * 1) File a ticket through WP:OTRS giving Wikipedia permission to use the material.
 * 2) Place a comment on the website that gives up the content as fair use.
 * I'd recommend that you do the first (OTRS) before doing the second, since that would ensure that Wikipedia would be able to use the content. The problem with just stating it on here is that we can't really verify that you are you, whereas we could do this via you e-mailing OTRS. Placing a fair use disclaimer on the bottom of your page would be helpful, but it'd pretty much require that you insert a Creative Commons license that satisfied Wikipedia, which would likely be this CC license. If you want to insert this, that should do the job as well but I'd recommend also doing the OTRS ticket just as a safety precaution and a general CYA type of deal. It'd also be good since they'd be able to walk you through the process of doing this and also help determine what you can do to preserve your rights over the work. I'm not terribly familiar with the process, so all I can really do is point you in their general direction. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  05:33, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Tokyogirl79 hey thanks for this will do both as you suggest, with regard to the http://www.firebreak.com.au do I have to place a fair use disclaimer on all the pages or just the main page? Grumpy fire (talk) 07:02, 21 November 2015 (UTC)Grumpy fire
 * It's best to make it visible on all pages just in case, since usually people will just take a quick look at the page to see if there's a copyright disclaimer. You could probably get around this a little by creating a page for the copyright information and then putting it in the header bar in its own little tab. That way it'd be visible to anyone coming into the page (you could label it something like "fair use rationale" or "copyright information"). Since it'd be in the header bar (which appears to be on all of the pages), you wouldn't have to add it manually to every single page, which can be very time consuming. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  07:24, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:20, 23 November 2015 (UTC)