User talk:Ryan Vesey/Archive 13

I read your thread at Jimbo's talk concerning WikiNews
And so I went over to the site. I was pretty surprised. At the risk of coming across as a presidential candidate, there seem to be some problems over there. To my eyes, there's not adequate editor resources to support the project. Just one or two active admins, and very few active editors. Six very fine people are running for ArbCom, but a couple of those aren't even active contributors. I don't want to sound like a complainer, but I'm wondering how even to begin to contribute. Would you mind catching me up a bit? BusterD (talk) 15:08, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I can hopefully help you out in a little bit. I see you contacted Pi zero.  He is the editor who assisted me in the beginning. Ryan Vesey  Review me!  15:51, 27 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Lacking even a talk page on Wikinews (the n is not capitalised), I have to question your qualification to input on the matter BusterD. Our ArbCom is not the same as that of Wikipedia. It hasn't heard a case in a very, very long time. And, I would hope it does not need to for the upcoming term. If you want to contribute to Wikinews, see the welcoming template, and read some of the policies it links to.
 * Apologies if this comes across as harsh, it is not intended to be a "keep your nose out of other people's business" message, but an expression of concern at our project being discussed off-Wikinews. --Brian McNeil /talk 16:07, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Just to point out, your username isn't currently in accordance with Signatures, which requires at least one link to your user page or talk page. May I suggest "Brian McNeil / Contact me at Wikinews  or something along that line?  That would still direct talk to where you are most active, but leave a link that is within our guideline. Ryan Vesey  Review me!  16:19, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * And I thank you for your input, Brian and Ryan. I've made an early attempt to rewrite a page under dispute. I happen to have some experience with Ryan as an editor, and I tend to trust him, so I took a liberty of asking him here. I sincerely hope nobody takes offense at my comments here; they were directly in response to comments made in the Jimbo thread, comments I believe Ryan made genuinely to help Wikinews (thanks for your correction). I claim no special qualification, other than seven years' editing in good standing on this wiki. I'm looking for a way to help, and am very happy you're willing to be blunt with me in response. Since Pi zero has created a user talkpage for me in that space, perhaps I can be shamed there, instead of here. :-) BusterD (talk) 16:22, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Welcome to join us BusterD, you might find Laura Hale's experience worth looking at. Most Wikinewsies simply wouldn't tolerate the contortions-to-be-civil that Wikipedia's infinite timescale affords people here; so being blunt, brusque, and extremely direct is the order of the day. Who knows, you might find it quite refreshing.
 * We're moving away from trying to mirror the mainstream these days, and really push for people to do more original reporting. However, doing what we refer to as synthesis work is where most people cut their teeth.
 * We'd a fork which, if you find it, you'll see fares even more poorly than we do. That's partially responsible for the low numbers; I was, perhaps, the most vocal in helping that be the outcome of on-project disagreements; those who've stuck around will, by-and-large, agree that the direction those who forked off wanted to take the project was doomed.
 * Ryan, forgive the abruptness but, sod your signature rules wikilawyering. Why should I be required to watch pages on a project I rarely edit? The talk link goes to my primary talk page, if people follow it they'll get a message to me; if they comment on my talk on Wikipedia, I might not see their message for weeks. Might I take the opportunity to point you to the same, somewhat blunt, comments I initially directed at BusterD? You do us a disservice commenting from a position of ignorance, and you alienate contributors to other projects by presuming you've a right to discuss their hard work "behind their backs". --Brian McNeil /talk 18:16, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * There are java script tools for watching pages from other projects; however, the requirement is in place because editors should have the ability to find your page locally without being redirected to another project. Use a soft redirect if you wish. Ryan Vesey  Review me!  18:20, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Your pedandty is polite, albeit astounding. Breaking News: Wikipedia is not the centre of the universe; SUL means people have accounts across all projects.
 * What you are Wikilawyering about should be irrelevant. It is irrelevant. Have you any relevant input to the discussion at-hand? --Brian McNeil /talk 21:40, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * With due respect, Brian, I originally asked someone I know for his personal view. I didn't mind your jumping in, but have reasonable expectations you won't make it more difficult than necessary for me to have a direct interaction without undue interruption. If I must have this interaction via email, I'm okay with that. I much prefer transparency, but this tendency toward harsh assessment is mildly annoying. BusterD (talk) 21:47, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Dan Oates
Graeme Bartlett (talk) 16:02, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Embedded infobox
Template:Infobox person has 'modules' for embedding more info boxes. The Template:Infobox officeholder that you used doesn't seem to have them. You may be able to use the person one and use two module lines to insert two office ones? I know very little (<-- code for 0) of how they work though. The person one could contain the 'lead' and the two office ones could have the politics. Just my thoughts though.--Canoe1967 (talk) 18:55, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that, I'll take a look. Ryan Vesey Review me!  19:09, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

office2 = May work in Template:Infobox officeholder that you are using. It seems to have a few different office options than the primary one. It will list up to office8 for eight elections.--Canoe1967 (talk) 23:49, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * In George W. Bush they used order2 and just named it. That may work as well?--Canoe1967 (talk) 23:56, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
SarahStierch (talk) 00:35, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Templates
Hi Ryan,

Are you any good with templates? You may have seen my help request on Worm's talk page, but he hasn't been active today seemingly and my adoptee is ready for the test. Any chance you know how to help? Adam Mugliston Talk  18:31, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I preloaded the test at User:Adam mugliston/Adopt/Test/Ryan Vesey, then made this change, then preloaded a new test at User:Adam mugliston/Adopt/Test/Ryan Vesey 2. I wasn't sure what you were trying to do with the earlier code so I might not have fixed it.  In any case, it feels like it is correct now to me.  You can tag the pages with G6 (which might be more applicable than U1 since I created them) once you've seen it.  If you were looking for something different, let me know and I can try to fix it. Ryan Vesey  Review me!  18:49, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It certainly looks right, thanks for your help. Have you got any ideas for how I could add an optional (for me, not the adoptee) extension for adoptees who have performed well? For example have to do 6 of something instead of 4 or add an extra task?  Adam Mugliston  Talk  18:54, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm, that's a bit beyond me. Maybe you could create two preload pages.  Then make a parameter for User:Adam mugliston/Adopt/Test.  Normally it would be set to preload "User:Adam mugliston/Adopt/Preload" advanced would cause the preload to be "User:Adam mugliston/Adopt/Preload 2"  If you wanted to create a special preload based on the adoptee, you would need to A)Create a special preload page for that adoptee.  I.e. "User:Adam mugliston/Adopt/Preload/Ryan Vesey" then create a parameter that would pull that, Ryan.  It might be necessary to use if which is the template I am most poor at.  I can tinker around with it tonight/over the weekend if you are interested. Ryan Vesey  Review me!  19:06, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, if you could have a look, that'd be great, as I'd like to set my adoptee some extra questions without adding them in for everyone. I will be on probably for another 3 hours. What I was really hoping for is having extensions for each question separately and then being able to mix and match, but is that complicated and being a nuisance? Adam Mugliston  Talk  19:14, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Just to point out, tonight for me is in 2.5 hours at the earliest and possibly as far as 12 hours from now. If you want your adoptee to start the test sooner, I suggest that you temporarily modify the various preload pages and then undo the edits once the test has been started.  I'm at work right now, so I'm not able to focus fully, but I'll see if I can find a possible way to do those extensions.  At present, it seems like it would be a bit too confusing. Ryan Vesey  Review me!  19:23, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, sorry, I forgot you're in the US and so a different time zone. Don't worry yourself too much, I can create varieties of the preloads, if only there was some way of easily accessing the various options. I think I might let my adoptee go for it at your suggestion and then worry about making it all sophisticated and smart for the future. Adam Mugliston  Talk  19:28, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Any luck? Adam Mugliston  Talk  15:57, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I apologize, I got caught up in the opening ceremonies and forgot about the templates. I'm out of town for most of this weekend, but I'll try to figure it out. Ryan Vesey  Review me!  15:59, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
 * No worries, my adoptee is out all day today anyway and I think he doesn't want to start until Tuesday anyway, so no rush. I stayed up till late with the ceremonies too, did you enjoy them? Adam Mugliston  Talk  16:13, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thanks for that! Ryan Vesey Review me!  15:55, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

COI Templates
Hey. I noticed template-Talk on your Talk page.

Would you be interested in joining Eclipsed and I in improving the templates?

My primary goal is to duplicate an AFC-like process for request edits. This would resolve almost all the complaints related to reviewing requested edits:


 * A clear and concise paper-trail on why a requested edit was previously rejected
 * Puts the burden on the submitter to read guidelines and improve it, rather than on volunteers to work for the paid editor
 * Streamlines the process and makes it less burdensome

To me this might be the single most important thing we can do to eliminate the "ethics tax" (the fact that it is SO hard to do things from Talk pages and so easy to edit directly). User:King4057 (EthicalWiki) 21:21, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'm part of the way done with some changes to request edit that can be used to show if a request has or has not been reviewed. I think the best way would be to have that and then have another template for responses.  It can include an accepted parameter and then a couple of decline parameters.  We'll probably want to make it smaller than the AFC template since it goes on the talk page, but we should include advice in addition to the decline reason. Ryan Vesey  Review me!  04:32, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Noun is helping me too. Check out our effort here. I'm working on some detailed suggestions and draft content for the templates on the Talk page. I'm also working on following up on  this for getting a table similar to the one AfC, protected article request edits have. User:King4057 (EthicalWiki) 04:52, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I created Request edit/answered not too long ago. I didn't get around to making it a part of Request edit though. Ryan Vesey  Review me!  04:54, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh yah, I added that to my Talk page suggestions. Though we could just do it as "a" for answered. The way AfC works, they repost the request each time, so the new reviewer can see prior feedback. I'd like to do it that way, because one important issue is creating a concise paper trail on prior feedback. User:King4057 (EthicalWiki) 05:16, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Horsemaning
Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Horsemaning. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Feedback request service. — RFC&#32;bot (talk) 00:20, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
Adam Mugliston Talk  09:17, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Is there even a point
To having an RFC? Consensus was for this to be included Then some random guy comes along as soon sa it is added and removes it. He did not even take part in the RFC for Christs sake, what is the point if consensus just gets ignored? Darkness Shines (talk) 09:57, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I commented there; however, I'll mention here that adding a section to Gilgit Baltistan only did go against the consensus of the RfC. The consensus was to create a section for all three articles and include them. Ryan Vesey 14:14, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * See my response on the article talk :o) Darkness Shines (talk) 14:18, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Blocked user Dilek2
Thanks for cleaning my page. S/he continues activities here. All the best. --E4024 (talk) 20:46, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 30 July 2012

 * Read this Signpost in full
 * Single-page
 * Unsubscribe
 * EdwardsBot (talk) 12:45, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Penyulap
Hi Ryan. I meant to post at the ANI again, but since it was closed by the time I got a chance to, I thought I'd just drop you a note. Regarding this, Penyulap's version of events is quite a bit closer than yours. If you look at the edit summary, "Ok Penyulap, I'll try to keep out of your way." I did agree to give him some space, rather than refuse to interact with him. Nothing Penyulap said bothered me in the slightest, though that comment made me realise that I had misjudged the situation.

A few weeks ago, he stated that he despised me due to a disagreement over an unblock. Given the situation, the length of block remaining, the comments I'd made supporting him and my experience with off wiki people who I considered similar to Penyulap, I assumed that his opinion of me would be fleeting. As I was working in the area with the other editors, I did end up posting on his page a few more times. I realised it wasn't as fleeting as I hoped, and tried to clear the air, which didn't go down well. At that point, I intended to leave him alone, as I realised I couldn't help him further and my comments just exacerbated things.

However, within a few hours, he posted a comment regarding my actions. I should have followed my intentions, but I did comment - leading to the post you highlighted. I am sure he saw it as baiting and I could have avoided the whole thing. Overall, I'd say the guy needed a block, he's been out of sorts for the past month or so, but he's a very talented editor. If he sorts out whatever off-wiki problems he might have and comes back to actually edit, rather than make wild accusations, I for one would welcome him back with open arms. Keeping out of his way, of course ;)  Worm TT( talk ) 09:32, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I will admit that I didn't read the entire thing. I followed the link and did a search for Worm.  That being said, I don't care if you were the best fisherman in the world, no amount of baiting was worth that tirade.  Penyulap has confused me.  I don't remember him from last year, but when I came back I remember thinking of him as a productive editor.  After that he just appeared as an occasional blip on my radar and each time he became more and more disruptive. Ryan Vesey 13:50, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Now you're really makin' me laugh! :D
Hey Ryan! You're making me laugh now! Just as you were doing that, I was reading over what I was removing - I've actually got the Cross book now (four Hendrix biographies, and counting - terrible, eh?) - I was thinking that Exact Same Thing - why is this even in here? You're making me laugh! Take care, yeah? Cheers, :D --Charlie Inks (talk) 16:34, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * You too Charlie! Great minds think alike I suppose. Ryan Vesey 16:37, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Thank you!


Red Hat On Head (talk) has given you a bubble tea! Bubble teas promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a bubble tea, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy drinking!

''Thanks for answering my questions and guiding me around on Wikipedia. :)''

Spread the awesomeness of bubble teas by adding Bubble tea to someone's talk page with a friendly message!

Red Hat On Head (talk) 23:28, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Men's rights
Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Men's rights. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Feedback request service. — RFC&#32;bot (talk) 01:15, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Andy
I didn't jump into the fray because of the blocking admin. I was ready to try but it would have escalated and Andy is a big boy. Its just...the situation made me aware that these things do happen (Editor gets depressed and confesses his plight). And if we (WER) are true to our mission we need to be a part of the attempt to save the forlorn editor. Thanks. ```Buster Seven   Talk  14:02, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

RE: The Boycott Chikfila link
I saw you removed the link, and you gave your reasoning. (Don't worry, it's not back up,  I did say anyone could remove it  :)  ) Anyrate,  I'm not sure I agree with your specific rationale, that it gave more information than wiki could give as the information isn't prohibited, but ELINK did mention not linking to petitions, look that ELINK backs you irregardless.

See you around. "....We are all Kosh...." <-Babylon-5-> 17:29, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I would have clarified it more if you had raised it on the talk page, but I was referring to "Sites that contain neutral and accurate material that is relevant to an encyclopedic understanding of the subject and cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article due to copyright issues,[2] amount of detail (such as professional athlete statistics, movie or television credits, interview transcripts, or online textbooks), or other reasons." On another note, your signature is currently in violation of WP:SIG.  Signatures can't contain a link to an external source. Ryan Vesey 17:44, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

ANI
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.-- JOJ Hutton  04:24, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm giving you the Guidance Barnstar! :D

 * Wow! Thanks so much Charlie! Ryan Vesey 17:52, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Urdu Wiki
Yeah brother! I am from Urdu Wikipedia. --Muhammad Shuaib Nadwi (talk) 18:36, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Hello and thank you for your incredibly fast reply! File:Birha Ki Raat (1950) - Hindi film poster.jpg is in use on Urdu Wikipedia, but it has been determined that it was not appropriate for commons.  I was hoping somebody could upload that locally before it get's deleted on Commons.  Is fair use allowed on urdu Wikipedia?  In addition, the image is PD in india but not the US.  Would that qualify it even if urdu Wikipedia doesn't allow fair use? Ryan Vesey 18:39, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Fair use isnt allowed on Urdu Wikipedia, and would not qualify it in abovementioned state. --Muhammad Shuaib Nadwi (talk) 18:53, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Well that's sad. It's a good poster, but I suppose the law is the law. Ryan Vesey 18:57, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * true. but dont be sad. For sure anyone will upload again after it get's deleted. --Muhammad Shuaib (talk) 19:03, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Phallus
Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Phallus. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Feedback request service. — RFC&#32;bot (talk) 01:15, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

POV
When all of our sources speak of Chik-fil-a supporting "anti-gay causes", it would be POV to change it to "conservative". In short, you've proven my point by showing that what you consider neutrality is actually conservative bias. Still-24-45-42-125 (talk) 05:30, 4 August 2012 (UTC) "Wikipedia describes disputes. Wikipedia does not engage in disputes. A neutral characterization of disputes requires presenting viewpoints with a consistently impartial tone; otherwise articles end up as partisan commentaries even while presenting all relevant points of view. Even where a topic is presented in terms of facts rather than opinions, inappropriate tone can be introduced through the way in which facts are selected, presented, or organized. Neutral articles are written with a tone that provides an unbiased, accurate, and proportionate representation of all positions included in the article.

The tone of Wikipedia articles should be impartial, neither endorsing nor rejecting a particular point of view. Try not to quote directly from participants engaged in a heated dispute; instead, summarize and present the arguments in an impartial tone.--WP:NPOV" Ryan Vesey 05:34, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but I'm quite familiar with WP:NPOV. It doesn't say we should use euphemisms or always accept the terminology preferred by the speaker. So, for example, if Stormfront wants to characterize itself as a charity that happens to focus on white people, it's not our job to cater to their dishonesty. If Chick-fil-a considers itself "conservative", we should mention that. But when neutral secondary sources call it "anti-gay", we should, too. Still-24-45-42-125 (talk) 06:57, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

The Tea Leaf - Issue Five
Hi! Welcome to the fifth edition of The Tea Leaf, the official newsletter of the Teahouse!


 * Guest activity increased in July. Questions are up from an average of 36 per week in June to 43 per week in July, and guest profile creation has also increased. This is likely a result of the automatic invite experiments we started near the end of month, which seeks to lessen the burden on hosts and other volunteers who manually invite editors. During the last week of July, questions doubled in the Teahouse! (But don't let that deter you from inviting editors to the Teahouse, please, there are still lots of new editors who haven't found Teahouse yet.)
 * More Teahouse hosts than ever. We had 12 new hosts sign up to participate at the Teahouse! We now have 35 hosts volunteering at the Teahouse. Feel free to stop by and see them all here.
 * Phase two update: Host sprint. In August, the Teahouse team plans to improve the host experience by developing a simpler new-host creation process, a better way of surfacing active hosts, and a host lounge renovation. Take a look at the plan and weigh in here.
 * New Teahouse guest barnstar is awarded to first recipient: Charlie Inks. Using the Teahouse barnstar designed by Heatherawalls, hosts hajatvrc and Ryan Vesey created the new Teahouse Guest Barnstar. The first recipient is Charlie Inks, for her boldness in asking questions at the Teahouse. Check out the award in action here.
 * Teahouse was a hot topic at Wikimania! The Teahouse was a hot topic at Wikimania this past month, where editor retention and interface design was heavily discussed. Sarah and Jonathan presented the Teahouse during the Wikimedia Fellowships panel. Slides can be viewed here. A lunch was also held at Wikimania for Teahouse hosts.

As always, thanks for supporting the Teahouse project! Stop by and visit us today!

You are receiving The Tea Leaf after expressing interest or participating in the Teahouse! To remove yourself from receiving future newsletters, please remove your username here. Sarah (talk) 08:37, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Sorry
Sorry about that, and thanks for the post. As a hard rule I never delete stuff off of my talk--not even the personal attacks--I just love being the center of attention too much!!!!! Hahahaha!!!! But I can't allow my talk to be used as a weapon against other editors. And then you fed him. But thanks. – Lionel (talk) 05:21, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Good point. The liberal bias on this encyclopedia is so strong, it's hard not to point it out every chance I get.  Editors like to pretend that there is a liberal bias because the entire world is liberal and there's an island of 50 conservatives.  In reality, it's a form of systemic bias that the majority of editors feel no need to correct.  A large percentage of our editors went to a university and it is blatantly obvious that college has a liberalizing effect.  Heck, I've only been through one year and I'm already more moderate than I was going in.  I commend you for your work to counteract that bias.  On another note, I noticed you were working on User:Lionelt/Speeches of Ronald Reagan.  A)It is awesome that you thought to include the videos.  B)There can and probably should be an article just on Ronald Reagan's oratorical style.  Have you got your eye on a featured topic? Ryan Vesey 05:34, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Gee, I was just informed that pointing out bias (without mentioning any specific user, mind you) is "against policy," and that I risk being blocked for such candor. So how the hell do you rate?  Or is it just that obvious I'm only a high school puke?  Maybe that's it.  Yeah.   Belch fire - TALK  09:12, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * ALERT: more Wikipedia secrets about to be exposed by Lionelt--this is not plotting My dear Belch, when you've racked 20,000 edits, a bunch of DYKs, GAs and bronze thingees, and a wall full of barnstars--you have enough wikifriends to !vote you out of anything. Hahahah! When you're a newbie with a couple thousand edits you're basically raw meat for biting and on whom new admins can try out their newly activated block button. My advice: hook up with a powerful admin who will "mentor" you, What is mentoring? Mentoring is when you get into trouble and your admin-mentor storms onto ANI and starts blocking whoever has it out for you. And you know what, now that Jenova has "graduated" I think WormThatTurned may have an opening. Not that Worm is a powerful admin, but he'll do until my RFA gets going. What is graduation? You don't know anything more than when you started mentoring except for one important thing: you know enough to avoid getting blocked. – Lionel (talk) 12:02, 4 August 2012 (UTC) You can now return to your regularly scheduled XXX broadcast

Well, "against policy" is pretty vague. Fortunately, I remember you being warned specifically against violating WP:NOTFACTIONS. That's much more concrete, therefore easier to understand and follow. Hope that helps! Still-24-45-42-125 (talk) 12:10, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Regarding the "speechography", when I realized that all of the Reagan Library holdings were in the PD a lightbulb went off. And I just started uploading videos, haha. For media it really is the motherlode. Actually, I have my eye on a WP:FOUR ;-) – Lionel (talk) 06:34, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * That is so awesome! Do we have video for the Tear Down This Wall speech or just the audio?  In addition, for there to be a featured topic, there is no requirement that all of the articles be featured.  I'll work on gathering up all of the Reagan articles that are GA FA or (soon to be) FL. Ryan Vesey 07:23, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You're starting to creep me out. I was just on Miller Center trying to download that very video. It's 26 min so it might just make the 100M commons limit. But the site isn't working. I found it on youtube but it has the Reagan Library watermark.
 * You see when I first started on the "speechography" I felt the audio was sufficient, especially since it is a Featured Sound, so I never uploaded the video.
 * Fastforward... The speechography is just about ready for article space--and a nom for DYK. But which video to use for the dyk? The Challenger is a top 10 speech, but so is Berlin Wall! So that's why I've decided to get the video and replace the audio.
 * Another consideration: both Challenger and Berlin Wall IMO are FPCs. It would be a coup to have a FP in a dyk nom!
 * Count me in for the FTopic.– Lionel (talk) 08:02, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

In search of the Loch Ness Monster
Just kidding! I needed a headline to get your attention. Actually, I'm searching for the elusive "liberal bias". I've noticed that you discuss it quite a bit, so I'm assuming you know more about it than I do. Would it be too much to ask for several examples so I can see it for myself? Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 10:22, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I mention it because I see it, not because I care to argue about it or even win any arguments about it so I won't be wasting my time to find examples for you, sorry. Ryan Vesey 07:25, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * If you are truly interested, you might be interested in looking at the results of this google search. I will note that a majority of sources that reference a liberal bias are conservative so I did a similar search for conservative bias of Wikipedia.  Take what you want from the results of those searches, we are certainly free to have differing views on the issue. Ryan Vesey 07:39, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Younger editors
Hi Ryan. On discussion and with his approval, I redrafted Brad's very good faith essay at Guidance for younger editors to lower the 'adult' tone just slightly and to  improve its general format. I did not however fundamentally change the content. As a teacher and teacher trainer of some 30 years experience however, I would probably have written something quite different. Rather than just stabbing at the existing one with minor edits, perhaps a couple of editors experienced in these matters could get together and draft something new. I would certainly participate. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:02, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks Kudpung. I'm not interested in personally creating a new page, but I would certainly support any effort that was made to do so.  I was looking for something a bit more simple that focuses just on the personal information issue and informs young editors without scaring them.  Perhaps a good first step would be to list some types of personal information that a young user should be wary about editing.  The article doesn't mention not displaying your age. Ryan Vesey 07:43, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Quick Qs for you
Mind if I ask a bonehead question? What's "GA"? And also, this one caught my eye: HMS Doterel (1880) But it looks like a dandy article already. Could you describe for me briefly what the objectives are? Or perhaps point me towards whatever quality standard is being sought?  Belch fire - TALK 07:01, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * A GA is WikiSpeak for Good articles. The Good article criteria are here.  In the case of HMS Doterel, I nominated it last summer, but by the time a reviewer got started, I was on my way to college.  The issues are listed on the talk page.  Particularly in the sections peer review and GA review.  I believe a good starting point for us would be to create a new section that lists the unresolved problems (primarily the lead section and the quality of a few sources, in addition there are some areas that can use expansion).  It shouldn't take long for the article to be ready for a GA review again soon.  The process that led me to that article is fairly interesting.  I actually found this and decided to improve it.  There, I learned that a ship exploded and decided to write an article on the ship.  Then I found out that the explosion was caused by xerotine siccative so I've been writing an article on that for a while.  You will probably have similar situations arise, and I feel it is one of the best ways to edit.  You dive deeper and learn more about this topic that you never would have heard of outside of editing Wikipedia. Ryan Vesey 07:17, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll dig into this over the next few days, as time allows. And actually, that sort of thing already has happened.  Not long ago, my hometown newspaper printed | this story, about a long-forgotten race track.  As it happens, I'm a racing fan, so I went looking for more info.  To my dismay, I found no article about the track on Wikipedia, so I decided to fix that.  And then, one thing led to another... and now I'm turning into a bit of a historian specializing in this narrow topic of wooden board tracks.  But it's awfully easy to get sidetracked in politics.   Belch fire - TALK  08:03, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

A brownie for you!

 * Thanks for the brownie, and no problem! I hope you enjoy your editing career.  Here's another tip, I assume you came here to edit articles.  Be careful about moving into some of the meta areas of Wikipedia.  You'll get trapped and then forget about the fun part (editing articles of course).  Good luck at college as well! Ryan Vesey 07:17, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Holy crap. Have I been on wiki too long? That brownie looks real to me! Same for the iced tea a few section above.– Lionel (talk) 07:43, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Next RfA?
Ryan, I was wondering how long you plan to wait before your next RfA? I don't know if you are planning to nominate yourself or if you'd prefer for someone else to do it. I'd be willing to nominate (or co-nominate) you, although there are probably others who could write a better nomination who'd also be willing. AutomaticStrikeout 17:23, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Ryan is a fantastic editor and would make an incredible admin, but I think we should work on my RFA first. There are certain editors who need to be blocked on a regular basis and AN3 and ANI are just too unpredictable. I recall a recent 4RR incident where the violator got 24 hours, when they should've received 6 mos. A lot of people are talking about "Why Wikipedia is a failure" and with my election as admin "Wikipedia will not be a failure!"
 * – Lionel (talk) 21:38, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Lionelt, you aren't setting the bar high enough. Do I see a Requests for founder rights/Lionelt in the near future? Ryan Vesey 07:33, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * As of this moment I can tell you that my next RfA is completely TBD. I've been spending too much time in the meta areas and want to focus on the aspect of the Wiki that is more enjoyable and less drama filled. Ryan Vesey 07:33, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks for the reply. I'm curious as to your opinion on how soon you think I might be ready for an RfA of my own? AutomaticStrikeout 19:42, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't advise one before next April.  You've racked up a high edit count, but most editors, including myself, are of the opinion that at least a year is usually needed to gain the necessary experience.  You haven't been very active in admin areas (at least that I have seen).  I've noticed that you have been active in AfD and I suggest that you continue to do so.  Later, if you feel that you understand the CSD criteria, you could set up a CSD log with Twinkle and start tagging those. Ryan Vesey 20:00, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks for the input. In all honesty, I don't even know what CSD is. AutomaticStrikeout 20:05, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * See Criteria for speedy deletion. You might want to look over User:Ryan Vesey/Adopt/Deletion for more information on deletion. Ryan Vesey 20:09, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks. I'll try to look into that stuff. AutomaticStrikeout 20:11, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Refactoring comments
Yep, thanks, I was definitely in the "if it ain't broke..." mindset. Regards, GiantSnowman 20:36, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Input needed at DRN
Hi. Input is needed about Dispute_resolution_noticeboard regarding suitability of sources for the pantheism article. Your name was selected at random from WP:FRS. Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. --Noleander (talk) 01:41, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

RFC
You do realize blocking YRC won't solve anything, but actaully make the situation worse because another admin can and will just unblock him? He was well on his way to receivng a block a week or so ago by the community but he got blocked by an admin for something else which killed the discussion. Let the process take place and a determination to be made by either Arbcom or the community or else this process will have to be repeated again. Fasttimes68 (talk) 18:30, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Is there a requirement that YRC be allowed to attack editors in the RFC for it to continue? (Legitimate question, I'm not being facetious) Ryan Vesey 18:33, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Using anti-vandalism tools in this situation isn't going to improve it. Uncle G (talk) 18:41, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It was a miss-click. I informed him here. Ryan Vesey 18:45, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Good. Although it would have been fairly easy to predict that the intended recipient of the name calling would want it retained.  I predicted that this RFC won't proceed well.  There have been three related undo wars already, before the RFC even started.  Don't get sucked into the maelstrom.  Avoid the use of the undo and reversion tools.  Uncle G (talk) 19:08, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your advice, I had no intention of continuing to undo it had I been reverted. I will admit that I don't like that it was reinstated. Ryan Vesey 19:20, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Your invatation for discussion
What are your concerns about this edit ? Mlpearc ( powwow ) 19:52, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * No concerns, that edit led me to indent my oppose. I'll go clarify. Ryan Vesey 19:54, 6 August 2012 (UTC)


 * OK, please note I have to go out of town for a few hours, I will have my smartphone (which I am learning is a bear to edit with) and I will try to be as prompt as possible on any responses.  Mlpearc  ( powwow ) 20:11, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * No concerns at all with your promptness. My primary hope is that in the future you will weigh concerns with the validity of unsourced material before removing it.  I wouldn't have a concern if material was removed that said "The Monkees will be the President's personal band".  You should have a valid reason to doubt the accuracy of the statement.  The statement that was removed was written in a way that left me with the assumption that it was most likely factually accurate.  I took a similar approach to Action Theater (relevant discussion at User talk:Callanecc/Archives/2). Ryan Vesey 20:20, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia:Requests for Comment/Community de-adminship proof of concept
Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Wikipedia:Requests for Comment/Community de-adminship proof of concept. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Feedback request service. — RFC&#32;bot (talk) 02:16, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 06 August 2012
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">
 * Read this Signpost in full
 * Single-page
 * Unsubscribe
 * EdwardsBot (talk) 10:28, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Apology
I'm sorry if I have removed the comments on User talk:Dennis Brown's talk page unintentionally, but I felt that it was wikihounding and I did it out of good faith. I promise that I won't do it again. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 21:54, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * No problem, I only reviewed the removed section enough to realize it wasn't worthy of removal. Dennis can make his own decision on Wikihounding or otherwise. Ryan Vesey 21:57, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * All right. I am still waiting for Dennis or Berean Hunter to respond patiently to the situation regarding HanzoHattori/Niemti's behavior, and as I do not want to get into a fight with this user, I am concerned about these apparently abusive comments. Would it be all right if I would just ignore him until the administrators respond to this situation? Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 22:58, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * That would be great. It is oftentimes better to ignore conflict until a neutral party can weigh in. Ryan Vesey 23:45, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, then. I will have to wait until they come up with a solution. Based on this post, I have decided not to edit Dennis Brown's talk page for a day and I have finally disengaged with Niemti, because I am not sure much can be done with his behavior even if I did try to give him a gentle nudge regarding it. Until then, I think Niemti will most likely be blocked indefinitely as a sockpuppet of the banned user, based on this user's history and this most recent SPI investigation, as well as WP:ROPE. As such, I will take no further active role with him. By the way, thank you for your comments. I appreciate them very much. Best wishes, Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 02:33, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm, it does appear like he might have used up his rope. I guess we'll see what Bearean has to say. Ryan Vesey 18:05, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Berean has commented on the situation here and I have provided additional evidence on the situation there. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:18, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Seeing that the situation has been finally resolved, I agree with your concern that avoiding Niemti is the best option, as I want to avoid any unnecessary conflict with the user in question any further and I respect the decision to give Niemti a second chance at editing. Thanks for your helpful advice, Ryan. I appreciate it very much. Best wishes, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 23:10, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

C.C. van Asch van Wijck
Hi Ryan! I asked the author your question here on their talk page. Please review as I might have misunderstood you. Thank you! heather walls (talk) 01:08, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep, depending on what they are, we might need to send them to someone with photoshop. Wikipedia and commons don't allow watermarks. Ryan Vesey 01:12, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Are you willing to comment on that with them? heather walls (talk) 04:46, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Hey Heather, I'm trying to do a bit more research per " Exceptions may be made for historic images when the credit forms an integral part of the composition". I think commons will be a better place to ask this question for now. Ryan Vesey 13:25, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

My Talk Page
Hey Ryan, you said that "something in [my] talk page makes it very difficult to click the talkback link", can you give me some more information on what you ran into so I can get it taken care of? - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;"> Neutralhomer •  Talk  • 09:02, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Just lighting this up. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;"> Neutralhomer •  Talk  • 18:54, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm assuming you have Twinkle installed. When I hover over the twinkle icon on your talk page, I can easily scroll over ARV warn and welcome.  Once I scroll below that, the dropdown menu closes.  It appears to have something to do with the source of your page.  You noticed how the talkback message ended up being messed up as well.  The Twinkle issue appears to be caused by User:Neutralhomer/TopMenu.  I'm not sure about the other issue. Ryan Vesey 18:57, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It's interesting that we edit conflicted on this. I missed your message earlier due to the signpost message and saw it at the same time that you notified me. Ryan Vesey 18:58, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, I will have Jack (aka: Br'er Rabbit) take a look and see what the problem is. Weird how things work out like that. :)  I have done that a couple times myself. :) - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;"> Neutralhomer  •  Talk  • 19:36, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh and what kind of browser are you using? - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;"> Neutralhomer •  Talk  • 19:38, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Chrome. Ryan Vesey 19:41, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I think the problem is the  in the CSS of User:Neutralhomer/TopMenu; I'm not entirely sure what purpose it serves by there, but it's making the top menu appear above the user actions and twinkle menus. Removing it should fix it. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 19:42, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
 * @Ryan: Give it another shot, post a test TB notice. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;"> Neutralhomer •  Talk  • 04:16, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
 * @Writ: I borrowed the code from someone else (no idea who after all this time) and never messed with it. So it was in the original code. :)  No idea what half of that stuff does. :) - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;"> Neutralhomer  •  Talk  • 04:16, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

On Lynfect's Law
Hey, Ryan, I replied to your post on the talk page. Do you really think this guy is doing anything but trolling? I mean, come on now. Looking at the content of the article (especially in the last section) and the way he wrote the objection leaves no doubt in my mind. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 18:36, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure, but when I saw the article, Godwin's Law immediately popped into my mind. I haven't done external searching, but if Lynfect's law was in fact a reasonable search term, it should redirect to Godwin's.  He gave a reference to views without a source.  Your google search sends me back into the obvious hoax column though.  Check Worm's talk page in a couple of minutes, or watchlist it. Ryan Vesey 18:39, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
 * No worries. I actually think he used the Godwin's Law article as a template, copying the lede and find-replacing "Godwin's" with "Lynfect's"; it's definitely based on it at some level.  And yeah, I've been stapling Worm's talk page for a few months now. :) Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 18:41, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
SarahStierch (talk) 23:29, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

.wav file
Thank you Ryan Vesey for the template. Being so new at this sometimes I get lost in the Wikipedia itself along with the lingo. Glad there is a Tea House to come to. I learn sometimes by just reading some of the articles. Cmurdock1955 (talk) 16:54, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Wannabe-admin
Arcandam has been blocked for 48 hours for disruptive editing. Can we all just walk away now? Barts1a / Talk to me / Help me improve 08:46, 9 August 2012 (UTC) (Non-admin closure) - No need for closure <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'> Worm TT( talk ) 09:13, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

I know how badly you want to be an admin. The reason you won't be an admin any time soon is precisely because of that reason: you keep trolling, like you did on my talkpage and on Reapers talkpage. Our admins need to be a bit more mature (even though we have plenty of clueless but mature admins). Arcandam (talk) 03:22, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll admit that I took the bait here, but I'm not going to be taking maturity lessons from you. Ryan Vesey 03:28, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Arcandam, it it patently obvious that Ryan does wishes to disengage from this. Prompting pokes like "Wannabe-admin", is unwarranted and I highly suggest you disengage from any further comments such as this. Calmer   Waters  03:31, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Your name is kinda weird for someone who doesn't read the context before commenting on a dispute. Arcandam (talk) 03:39, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

{{{tps}} (or troll) Arcandam, your comment to Ryan is ad hominem. I don't see any  evidence of trolling. Ryan's RfA was a very close call and he will almost certainly  pass next time. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:09, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * That's too bad, because he's one of those people who's very biased but imagines himself to be neutral. Still-24-45-42-125 (talk) 04:11, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * If I am onwiki and I notice yet another RfA I will instruct my cabal what to do. Arcandam (talk) 05:17, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * (e.c) I've read the context, I understand that you don't agree with rollback being removed. The whale maybe an attempt to address your view with some humor, maybe not. IDK. It's not like you called him an asshole along with it. This was in regards to escalating to this point. I would have done the same if it had been Ryan on your page. You are both DENYing each other, but continuing on in the same manner. Ryan you have stated your opinions on the matter; and honestly, did you really think the The spear that whale award was helpful here and not helping to flame up the situation even more? It appears that Arcandam would rather deal with this directly with Reaper Eternal and I believe at this point Reaper is more than able to handle this from here.  Calmer   Waters  04:19, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I made the spear the whale award before I realized that this would escalate. At that point, my involvement was limited to noticing the whale and my initial quote of the rollback guideline.  The award was an attempt at humor and I initially considered the whale to be the same. Ryan Vesey 04:24, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah yeah, sounds very likely. You are not welcome on my talkpage. And if you keep trolling you may be blocked. Arcandam (talk) 05:15, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * So some humor and some venting at a certain point started turned from its primary focus on the issue at hand and started turning instead towards some of the editors involved in the discussion. Isn't it time to disengage from this. I had hoped that if any further discussion was warranted, it could be about the merits of the edits again, rather than this. If it would help to slap me for meddling into this, feel free. Just don't call me an asshole while doing it ;-) Calmer   Waters  05:30, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Nah, you misunderstand, other than OohBunnies and myself (in response to OohBunnies) no one was joking because it is not funny. For example, the whale template is in this case comparable to saying: "you are a fucking clueless asshole". Then Ryan came along and started trolling and being annoying because he didn't understand the situation. Arcandam (talk) 05:41, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You have a bit of a cheek saying Ryan cannot post on your talk page whilst you rant and rave here, go have a cup of tea and lay down for a bit. Darkness Shines (talk) 05:45, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * He can and he has, but he isn't welcome. I prefer Coca Cola. Arcandam (talk) 06:06, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

...and I perfer Pepsi and the whole lot of you need to chill. Arcandam, go to your corner, Calmer Waters to yours, Ryan to yours. No one is helping matters, especially you Arcandam. (Personal attack removed) and unless you would like me to find an admin to deal with you, walk away now. Calmer Waters and Ryan, stop feeding the trolls. This is a slow motion pissing match and it should have stopped and been blanked hours ago. Everyone stay away from everyone else. There. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;"> Neutralhomer •  Talk  • 06:53, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You just received a whale template. Now stop inflaming conflicts and stop making personal attacks, go do something useful. Arcandam (talk) 07:09, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Not sure what a whale has to do with anything, but you are playing a very dangerous game that you will lose. Stop now and walk away or you will be blocked. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;"> Neutralhomer  •  Talk  • 07:16, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, you may want to read this page a bit more carefully. When you are done please read WP:NPA. Thanks in advance, Arcandam (talk) 07:19, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Ballsy coming from someone who says people who get a whale template are "a fucking clueless asshole". Interesting. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;"> Neutralhomer  •  Talk  • 07:26, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Nota bene: I did not say that. @Neutralhomer: try reading it again. Arcandam (talk) 07:38, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, you did, let's hit rewind shall we? "For example, the whale template is in this case comparable to saying: 'you are a fucking clueless asshole'."  See, right there, you said it.  Trying to say you didn't?  Here is proof that you did say it.  So to say me calling you a "troll" is a personal attack but you calling Ryan a "fucking clueless asshole" is not is beyond laughable and highly hypocritical. :) - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;"> Neutralhomer  •  Talk  • 07:45, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Do you know what the word comparable means? Arcandam (talk) 07:50, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Can we all please just stop for a minute here? I'm looking into the situation, and it's been a while since I blocked anyone. I'd really rather I didn't start this morning. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'> Worm TT( talk ) 07:48, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * @Worm: I would love to stop this situation, I tried above. Another user tried on Arcandam's talk page.  We were both called "trolls" and reverted.  My post above was considered a personal attack (this coming from the person who compared Ryan to a "fucking clueless asshole").  The bad guy in this situation is clearly Arcandam and if you want to block, by all means, go for it. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;"> Neutralhomer  •  Talk  • 07:53, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Just clarifying for Arcandam for a moment, he didn't compare Ryan to a "fucking clueless asshole". He said his whale to Reaper Eternal was comparble to calling him a "fucking clueless asshole". So, an directly uncivil comment about Reaper, not a personal attack against Ryan. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'> Worm TT( talk ) 09:20, 9 August 2012 (UTC)


 * As Barts1a mentioned, in a closure of this thread - I have blocked Arcandam for 48 hours. I've got to say though, he wasn't the only person behaving poorly in this mess, though looking at it, I believe he stepped over a line that others did not. I've seen a lot of baiting and taking the bait, suggestions of blocking, templating of regulars and generally winding people up, and I do suggest that everyone looks at their actions and has a think about how they could have handled things better. This escalated a lot further than it needed to. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'> Worm TT( talk ) 09:13, 9 August 2012 (UTC)