User talk:Skookum1/Archive 25

WP Indigenous Peoples of North America in the Signpost
The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Indigenous Peoples of North America for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions, so be sure to sign your answers. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Have a great day. –Mabeenot (talk) 22:12, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

BNA Access
Hey Skookum1, you have a user email waiting with instructions on how to get access to BNA via the Wikipedia Library Partnership, Sadads (talk) 16:38, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Hey Skookum1, just pinging you again for you to fill out the Google form in the email I sent last wek, Sadads (talk) 15:43, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

English is a DAB page
Hello, you reversed [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Slocan%2C_British_Columbia&diff=615520485&oldid=615504299 this edit], apparently (judging from your edit summary) because you think that I think that sǂuqan is an English word. I do not. My point is that English is a disambiguation page and not an article. I am removing the link on the rationale that (1) I'm fairly certain that you or whoever added the link did not intend to link to a disambiguation page, and (2) most readers of Wikipedia in English don't want the specific information that English language provides. If you disagree and think that readers of Slocan, British Columbia need more information about the English language, you may be interested to use the templates IPAc-en (for formatting International Phonetic Alphabet renditions of English words, including proper nouns) and Lang-en (to specify that a word is English; but see the documentation for that one, which recommends against linking to English language in most cases). Happy editing, Cnilep (talk) 07:44, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
 * What you did was delete the English pronunciation along with the link to English; I could care less about pandering to the template-crafting crowd, there should be no need to have "English:" in a lede anywhere, but it adds it. I didn't put that there, and don't like it; but deleting the IPA of the English pronunciation and leaving only the Ktunaxa one demonstrates to me a bit of knee-jerkery and not-thinking, as does coming here to lecture me on your motive, instead of apologize for your mistake.....if you don't know about a subject/topic, why are you screwing around on articles about it?  Fiddling with templates and formats by people who don't even read the articles, or care about content, is rife in Wikipedia now....and wasn't it you who was afraid to join the NCL discussion because you don't like "walls of text"?  Maybe that's why you don't read or significantly improve articles like Slocan and only fuss on tidbits within them.Skookum1 (talk) 14:07, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Split of Category:Bantu people
I have already posted this in several other places, but apparently I need to post it here too: Please bear with me while I split Category:Bantu people per Categories for discussion/Log/2014 May 24. If you have any concerns about my edits, please discuss with me rather than revert. It is a heck of a job and trying to figure it all out while someone else is reverting me is more than my brain can handle. Helen Online  07:43, 5 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Was this edit summary really necessary, considering I have asked people to bear with me not so long ago and I have a talk page you could post to? I have been very busy with other Wiki projects, so cut me some slack. If you had not sabotaged the CFD I could have done it before things got crazy for me. Helen  Online  07:56, 5 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I sabotaged the CfD?? That's quite the allegation to make, considering I did what YOU reverted without knowing that the CfD was underway. Never mind that the CfD wasn't necessary to start with as Category:Bantu peoples was a redlink and available for use; deprecating/cleaning the Bantu people category should have been where all that energy went...you know, the non sequiturs and red herrings and "gee, I don't know...is there anything else we can quibble about" coming from he-who-shall-remain-nameless, and who misrepresented my edit of Ambundu's category as "[Skookum1] got it wrong", meaning that I was allegedly wrong that the article was not about individuals but about the group; falsity and misrepresentation, there's quite a track record in this department, you should know; that you didn't see or comment on that and chose to indict me for simply moving a non-about-individuals article to plain-jane Category:Bantu was hiliariously off-kilter; though not funny at all.  And why not funny?  Because categories for ethnic groups without ANY disambiguation are the actual norm....I could list you a 100 but enough of my life has been taken up with this nonsense; "Bantu peoples" now exists....but didn't take a CfD to start, and is inherently redundant with "Bantu" (cf Category:Anishinaabe, Category:Mi'kmaq, Category:Dene and a few thousands others).   So why not funny?  Because I'm bored with people who haven't done their homework and go "tut-tut" at me for trying to straighten out something without pandering to the endless bureaucracy of Wikipedia bearpits, where nonsense and bad information, or really off-the-wall misperceptions and projections are taken at equal value with actual reality; and guidedlines are cited without ever being fully read or understood, or even blatantly claimed to say something they do not.

I repeat, there was no need for that CfD, as I pointed out (and was ignored and/or patronized) and it went on even after I called for just using the redlinked title available, since some anal interpretation of the "rules" ("there are not rules") was touted that the plain-jane Category:Bantu was backwards, and not meant for the ethnic group(s). So go scold someone else, and enjoy cleaning up the mess of the African categories and their confusing "FOO people" titles, I've washed my hands of it; for all the energy you put into defending the CfD so that procedural delay and time consumption could continue, to an inevitable conclusion as to where it is now, could have been spent doing all the category changes that you are now free to enjoy; or you could have realized the obvious COMMONSENSE of un-dabbing the "people" cat to Bantu, instead of getting hysterical about it and scolded me for "sabotaging" the CfD. You seem to have had no problem at all with the sabotage of ethnic titles and categories that preceded all this, or the sabotage of my posts and moves that went on endlessly and has gone on for a couple of years now from the same quarter. I tire of this; your CfD was a [expletive deleted] waste of time, and your whining to me here about me "sabotaging" it just more of the stupid same. And don't talk to me about unCIVIL for talking like that; you're the one who treated me as a criminal for violating a pointless CfD I didn't even know was going on, and accused me of SABOTAGING IT. That's AGF in the extreme, and inherently NPA, and I'm bored with this shitSkookum1 (talk) 16:45, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

"no one user owns naming rights"
You were very wrong in moving Stanley Park arbitrarily and without discussion; PRIMARYTOPIC=NODISAMBIG was established long ago. Central Park is another example of a best-known park by that name being undisambiguated; your undiscussed move I'm not in the mood to submit to the bearpit known as WP:Requested moves and will find an admin to correct you; after that reversion of your BOLD move, you can file an RM. I'd have reverted it myself it you hadn't made a further edit; but have redirected the main PRIMARYTOPIC title back to the Vancouver item. And, you're where again? Never mind, I already looked....Skookum1 (talk) 14:44, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Point taken. I'll look for a consensus for such stuff in future. Rcbutcher (talk) 07:56, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Mkdw moved it back already; he's also Canadian and familiar with the park and its rep. Thanks for not arguing or trying to rationalize/equivocate, which is too common around here.Skookum1 (talk) 12:59, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Question for you ...
Any idea where the File Hills Qu'Appelle Tribal Council fits in to our articles? -- Djembayz (talk) 19:04, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Not sure if you mean the File Hills Qu'Appelle Tribal Council title itself, or the indigenous language apps. There was a category for "indigenous languages with phone apps" or some such but it got CfD'd.  There's probably room for, if not already, some kind of article covering all native languages programs in Canada or per province maybe.  Dunno; if it's the tribal council article that you're asking about I guess that'll show up when I hit "submit" and find out if that's a redlink; a lot of bands and TCs and other organizations don't have articles yet.Skookum1 (talk) 00:38, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * The category has morphed to: List of endangered languages with mobile apps. :) (a note from your friendly talk page stalker ...) Djembayz (talk) 20:42, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Nuxalk vs. Nuxalk Nation
Yeah, I understand the distinction, and I think that such articles are victim of "scope bleed" a fair bit, because an editor may not really understand the division. What I put there is actually work on the language that the organisation itself has been deeply involved in (creating a radio station, contracting a linguist to produce greatly-improved linguistic materials). However, you may think I should be clearer on that, or that they don't really belong at all. If so, cool. I'd be happy to see your improvement, and I imagine I will probably agree with it.AshleyMorton (talk) 06:50, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Programs run by a government, or started by them, or under their auspices, do belong on their pages, as also with any companies they own or are any deals with companies external to them. Definitely a band-operated radio station belongs; and NB to get a broadcast license, an organization has to be incorporated, which the band is.  Ethno and history on band pages should be summaries, with the bulk of such content on the "ethno page", same as detailed information about the language would go on the language page.  NB there is as yet no Nuxalk art page, and one is sorely needed (disregard the old conversation farther up the Nuxalk talkpage, where I was being lectured for not having started one...by someone who has had nothing to do with the article other than its name debates, if that much....or some other schoolmarm pretension).  I've been meaning to get at more detail on the Kimsquit and Tallheo pages, and a Kwatna page is definitely needed (oh there is one now) ; somewhere also I saw the Nuxalk name for the IR community in Bella Coola, can't remember where now; while looking things up re the merge someone wants to do to merge the IR into the community article; but as you have noted, "Greater Bella Coola" aka the Bella Coola Valley is primary, not the town, as such, of Bella Coola per se.  You've noticed List of Nuxalk villages I guess; I'd like to add coords to that where possible, and other identifiers to make it more useful/mappable.Skookum1 (talk) 07:17, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

I looked at your edit; we need a citation for that, and I can't add much until I see the citation....and someone will eventually add a "citation needed" tag without it. It should be made clear that it's a program of the Nuxalk Nation government; I'm pretty sure that the language is available in the provincial school system curriculum there, not sure that's on the language page or not.Skookum1 (talk) 10:20, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Cacik
Please don't badger each person who disagrees with you. It's pointy and makes you look like an ass, undercutting any constructive argument you may have made  Calidum Talk To Me 16:06, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I"m not "badgering" them, I'm responding to each gullible, uninformed "well I've only heard of tzatziki" comment one-by-one, as each and every one is fallacious and and sad experience with RMs has shown that people repeat stupidity and bad information willy-nilly without having a clue what they're talking about. Or, as in that one case, hadn't even heard of cacik so assumed, listening to the other mistaken/misleading comments, that they're the same thing.  The POV nature of the nomination is so blatant it's painful to read; Balkan politics yeccch seen it before; and "each person" wasn't "disagreeing with me", I'd only just arrived and no one has disagreed with me yet.  I'm disagreeing with them.  Big difference.  And if one-by-one is needed to counter WRONG votes, so be it.  And you styling this "badgering" and saying they're disagreeing with me when they haven't even had time yet makes YOU an "ass" as you're being NPA and AGF towards me.  Gawd I tire of the pretension of Wikipedians who indulge in hectoring those who speak their mind and call a spade a spade.  The anti-Turk nature of that RM is very clear; as clear as the difference between the big soup bowl that cacik comes in vs the little dish that a dollop of tzatziki comes in; one is eaten with a spoon, the other spread with a knife; but hell you don't care about facts, you're just here to lecture and call me an ass, so you know where you can go.Skookum1 (talk) 17:11, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

July 2014
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Music by place [Cfd]
Hello, i put some effort in answering your questions on this topic, if anything is still unclear, note me. -- 068129201223129O9598127 (talk) 23:38, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

ENGVAR on Norway
Hi. Sorry for the confusion. Yes, WP:ENGVAR is the only guideline that applies. In this case, however, it does appear that UK English is the pre-existing variant. I appear to have erred in this case.

The problem was instigated by a user who, in flagrant violation of WP:ENGVAR, unilaterally converted over 100 pages to UK English via script (see Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents). Because of the immensity of the mess he made, in cleaning up behind him it's difficult to give thorough scrutiny to each page and tell which of the pages were actually in UK English to begin with. Again, sorry for any trouble this caused.  Oreo Priest  talk 08:20, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

NDP
Why would it be a COI at all? Just because I've admittedly voted NDP a few times doesn't mean I wouldn't be allowed to comment on a deliberation between two completely neutral variations on the title — I didn't comment on it because I didn't know it was happening, that's all. But, to be honest, I don't really have a strong opinion either way. Bearcat (talk) 21:58, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, I was under the impression you were a member and maybe organizer, that's why I asked.Skookum1 (talk) 01:18, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

List of artists
hi Skookum, please include Lionel Samuels to your list of artists. He has been recognized by Greg Sharf of the Smithsonian as being a master artist in argillite. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alice williamsen (talk • contribs) 00:53, 28 July 2014
 * Do you have a link to that listing? And any links to a bio?Skookum1 (talk) 01:29, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Curious
Hey Skookum1, this is just curiosity, in what circumstances would you write a definite article before someone's name as you did in "the Marcocapelle" yesterday? Btw you're right, I'm not a native speaker, so I don't feel embarrassed checking this out. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:52, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
 * secondary edit, I'd at first written "the nom" then realized I was already addressing him; substituted your name without removing the definite article; that's a typo, not a grammatical error.Skookum1 (talk) 14:30, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
 * but also, yes, sometimes in a sort of ironic way someone night refer to someone else as "the [personal name]" or "the [family name]" e.g. the Robert, the Johnson; though the latter case also means "the penis". Heads of Scottish clans are also generally referred to with "the", as in "the Donald" or "the Bruce"; the most common use for "the Donald" nowadays, though, is in reference to Donald Trump.Skookum1 (talk) 14:32, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, nice to know :-) Marcocapelle (talk) 14:48, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Canadian English
I refactored two of your edits to Talk:Canadian English/Archive 4 in an attempt to keep the threading and indenting clear. Please undo them if that's not what you want. Meters (talk) 18:23, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

WP:JSTOR access
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WP:OUP access
Hello, WP:The Wikipedia Library has record of you being approved for access to Oxford University Press's humanities materials through the TWL partnership described at WP:OUP. You should have recieved a Wikipedia email from User:Nikkimaria several weeks ago with instructions for access, including a link to a form collecting information relevant to that access. Please find that email, and follow those instructions. If you were not approved, did not recieve the email, or are having some other concern or question, please respond to this message at Wikipedia talk:OUP/Approved. Thanks much, Sadads (talk) 22:13, 5 August 2014 (UTC) Note: You are receiving this message from an semi-automatically generated list. If you think you were incorrectly contacted, make sure to note that at Wikipedia talk:OUP/Approved.
 * Thank you . I just figured out yesterday I can get past the google login problem I'd told you about by using Opera instead of Chrome to get at my gmail so will try and get at that today; as you can see from my wikibreak notice I'm a....little out of sorts right now, but will try and get on it.  There was a notice about BNA you mentioned too, wasn't there?Skookum1 (talk) 01:31, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Accidental thanks
Just to avoid confusion ... I didn't intend that recent thanks, a touchscreen accident. Pam D  05:40, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
 * didn't even notice it....Skookum1 (talk) 05:50, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for August 15
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Give evidence
Skookum1, one of many distinctive patterns in your complaints is that you omit to provide links so that other people can see what you are talking about.

Category_talk:Chinook_Jargon_place_names is a current example.

Another example is Categories_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_2 where you referred to a recent CfD on Category:Chinook Jargon as "peremptory and shallow as a nomination and a close". I see from the deletion log that this was deleted in 2012 under WP:G5; is that what you were talking about? Hardly recent, perhaps peremptory but it's consistently applied as policy, and there was no nomination or close. Dexdor went hunting and suggested this recent CfD, on a different category and which hardly seems to give rise to the complaints that you made. You did not have the good manners even to state whether that was the one you were complaining about.

The reason that I am raising is is to plead with you to give links for what you are talking about. Failing to do so is one of several tactics that make you consistently less persuasive than you could be.

If I have to go hunting back through your contribs or those of someone else before I have a clue what you are on about, chances are that either (i) I won't bother, or (ii) I will start but lose interest.

Make it easier on yourself, please. Give evidence. – Fayenatic  L ondon 08:12, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * There was a more recent one than that; I'm not talking about "placename"->"place name" (when I made that cat, I was following the lead of other "placename" cats, now I supposed many deleted for some reason or other); it was more recent than that, I'll have to look for it; I don't make shit up. It was fresh in my memory and not so long ago when the CJ place names one was brought to the "deletion table".  And in that discussion, which I thought it was you who had closed it, so I would have thought you'd have read through it, and would remember that more than one of the participants had waved away the "French placenames [in France]" one because of the special cultural situation of "CJ geography".  The notion that only articles about toponyms as toponyms should be in that cat - only two articles, in other words - is h*******t and a**l.  The category was created as a common category for all places with Chinook toponyms; perhaps Category:Places with Chinook Jargon toponyms would be a better cat name, if someone's going to be that a**l about interpreting catnames on the most narrow basis possible/forceable.


 * The result of that destructive action, which not a single one of the participants in the CfD had raised as what should be in it, was two hours today through his cat deletions and reverting them to what they had been (he was "damaging the article" as Uyvsdi has styled my moving of cats to the proper redirects for their titles). I don't recall CS46 ever editing a single one of those articles; and I see too much of this; people wading in with name-games and cat-definition/restructuring games who don't know the topic and do sweeping moves that it is charitable to call "BOLD"; a useless waste of time on his part, and necessary but irritating on mine.  And don't launch into me about my "tone", a lot of destructive/aggressive stuff is done around here in "soft tone" but is highly damaging and uncalled for; judge a man not by his words but by what he does; and there's one hell of a lot of destructive s**t going on lately, like the deletion of major civic features rather than any attempt to improve and expand or justify them.  Delete, delete, delete, all based on guidelines not based on broad consensus but by small groups with specific agendas....NCL is needless to say a case in point, and teh anti-7 crowd with Sta7mes and Skwxwu7mesh of course.  Treating guidelines as rules is contrary to THERE ARE NO RULES but I see someone's made that gussied up so it doesn't mean what was intended by it; wiki-lawyering it out of relevance and intended meaning.


 * I'll find the CJ CfD, I didn't make it up that that had gone down; and as for the attempt to empty the category of what it was intended for, if you can't see the destructive inanity of that for what it was, then you didn't read the CfD, even though you closed it as "keep" (as it should have been). As for people calling black white, and getting defensive about being confronted with wrong actions, the illogic of the inner workings of Wikipedia's self-contained unreality is on full display here.  And the impatience of people, demanding links now, and the ridiculously short 7-day closing schedule (30 days is more realistic, since not everyone on the planet is on Wikipedia every single day...and I'm 13 hours off EDT right now, as it happens), and getting snitty because I haevne't provided them right away, is getting to be a bore, and insulting; really as on Talk:Mount Polley mine disaster it's IMO little more than a tactic I've seen before, to avoid admitting taht the "substantiation" they say doesn't exist isn't already in front of their noses.Skookum1 (talk) 10:45, 15 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I'll hold you to that. (finding the CfD that you had in mind which was something to do with Chinook Jargon, which neither you nor other experienced contributors can trace at all easily)
 * Meanwhile please note that I have not even mentioned your (*******) tone, you did. You say judge you by what you do; I'm here to point out to you that quite apart from your tone, what you do is unconvincing and therefore counter-productive.
 * Look, you've just posted another redlink in your argument above; that's another careless habit. Use the Preview button, and if there is a redlink, fix it before saving. Otherwise, you are just making yourself look worse.
 * Also, stop assuming that other people read/watch/edit the same stuff as you do. This is another recurring habit.
 * Please provide links, often. You say above, "NCL is needless to say a case in point". I don't know what NCL is. Sure, I could search for it if I could be bothered, but why don't you habitually make links instead of making cryptic references to such topics, discussions or policies? That's what I'm trying to help you understand. What you do makes you look worse, even for readers who are able to ignore your tone. – Fayenatic  L ondon 14:03, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I thought you'd be aware of the blockade of reforming WP:NCL but apparently not; I'm not making "cryptic references", I'm referring to stuff I remember way too well; I do have eidetic memory and forget, true, that other people don't have the same "deep memory" that I do. the long redlink above is for the Fifth Pillar; I thought it was all caps WP:FIFTHPILLAR which is what is behind the pipe; I'll find the link for it. "Able to ignore my tone" LOLOL quite funny... actually, I know of many who don't mind it at all and understand my frustration, which e.g. TheMIghtyQuill and CambridgeBayWeather and others made in response to the blocks/ANIS and testy CfDs etc...then there are those who freak out if there's more than seven sentences in a row, or even make completely false claims about me in ANIs and closing discussions; I've been told not to name names or criticize other editors, including by you, and I never see those same people who criticize me or goad me with obstinacy and lies ever brought before the gallows as I have been; well, one has been, but I was warned never to mention him again, so did'nt weigh with 20 answers to his "when have I disrupted anything?" ..when that's all, in fact, he ever does.


 * As for the nonsense with the CJ category that just transpired, that's a clear case of someone not bothering to read, or ignoring, or just ignorant, of the just closed CfD and the points that led to it being closed as "keep"; he made the same justifications for his one-sided removals of the cat that were made by nom and his supporters calling for deletion....deletion is inherently destructive activity, not inclusive, and all too often not consensual, very often completely a**l instruction creep....Skookum1 (talk) 14:37, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Oh but this is hilarious. So this is a common tactic you employ in your "debates" is it Skookum? Spout nonsense and codswallop and then claim that these "facts" are well enough known that you don't need to provide any evidence to back you up? Wow, amazing. I'm actually quite glad that it isn't just me calling you out on this.  Pyrop e  16:06, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah well, birds of a feather...etc. But Fayenatic isn't a POV-pushing troll like you are.  Do what I said, either work on the article or stop denouncing sources and claiming I'm POV when it's YOU who are so blatantly "on the one side" including catch-phrases common in the right-wing media and by right-wing trolls on news sites.  I'm in another time zone, on the other frigging side of the world, have things to do beyond Wikipedia, and I'm not gonna respond to bossy-troll-demands on Media concentration in Canada or "proving" campaign donations and political ties between the mining and media world and the ruling parties; if you're unaware of these things then you're naive if not just plain ignorant.  That article is not about those things, it's you that's demanding them, I'm not your pet monkey.  I'll get to them in my own bloody good time; your kinds of challenges and rhetoric are demonstrably POV and AGF; and this is yet another NPA on your part.  Instead of working on expanding the article you have taken part in a clearly POV agenda, using POV rhetoric, and wasting my time.  You have been welcome all along to add whatever you want to the article; yet you insist on consuming time by attacking me.  Don't post on my talkpage again, you are not welcome here, TROLL.Skookum1 (talk) 01:10, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, thank you for that. Anyway, come on then Mr Eidetic memory, where is this "peremptory and shallow" CFD about Category:Chinook Jargon? – Fayenatic  L ondon 14:20, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, you think I'm your pet monkey too, it's not like I'm at your beck and call; I've been busy in the real world and wiki-wise I've had more high-priority things to do than pandering to the demands of someone who should go back to writing film reviews and stop lecturing me on my alleged behaviour and challenging me on a CfD that you should have been aware of; like so much else that you don't seem to clue in on, while closing CfDs based on personal dislike and levelling arbitrary "friendly" blocks on me when I was being harassed and attacked. I'm not at your beck and call, Fayenatic, and your are not God; it's evening here now, I've had a long day and don't need snide bullshit coming at me and demands that I find what you're asking RIGHT AWAY.  Bug off.Skookum1 (talk) 14:32, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Unless you're completely fine with POV and probably COI and probably paid editing on Wiki coverage of a major environmental disaster....Skookum1 (talk) 14:33, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm not demanding anything. You're the one making promises. I'd just like to see you deliver for a change. You clearly are talented, but by parading how brilliant you are and how everybody else is a dick, and then not fulfilling your own promises, you let yourself down. You are a prolific contributor here; I'd like to help you become a respected one as well. – Fayenatic  L ondon 20:04, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I just looked up instances of that phrase (peremptory and shallow) and see what happened, which was a brain fart, as I'd just typed that same phrase a moment before; I'll look through recent CfDs and see which one I'd intended to say. And oh yes, see your email.  And frankly, I am respected by a lot of editors, many of whom have spoken up in my defence at the various inane and a-factual ANIs launched against me, and here on my talkpage also.  Many other long-regular editors who won't or don't edit anymore that I know in "real life" also have no problems with my writing style, and in cases where I haven't linked things I'm referring to are already aware of the context; unlike certain closers who don't know the context and are in fact unconcerned with it, and even go so far as to make one-sided NPAs in their closes (BHG most glaringly) who don't or can't read things that contain facts; the Uyvsdi ANI against me was launched after what must have taken her days of compiling links without the context that had provoked my comment; I could have replied to each and every one with the horsewallop that had prompted them.


 * Maunus' ANI was full of lies and distortions, and Kwami's were all accusing me of what he had been doing, and also full of lies; his attacks against me on other talkpages, and here, have gone ignored and un-dealt with. I'd rather write articles than have to waste yet more time dealing with ANIs launched by people who are losing an argument; and NCL, as noted, is the Naming convention on languages, which was doctored by Kwami to suit his "preferences", and he'd already "salted" titles in question by changing them to make it seem like his position was already the standing convention, which it wasn't, and even after he moved thousands of articles after diddling with the naming convention, his format for titles was STILL not the majority of articles in question; far from it; and his changes to the guidelines were not in line with policy, particularly TITLE, yet he and his compadre JorisV maintained in the sea of RMs earlier this year that NCL was policy, which it's not.  I'd begun a table of which has which format, it's in a sandbox somewhere but it's a massive project and I never did complete the fields; I'd begun it during BHG's arbitrary anti-consensual block against me; the one during which she closed RMs completely out of step with the mass of them closed/moved by Xoloz, Cuchalain and someone else whose name I forget for the moment.

I just got up as I couldn't sleep, and have a lesson with my student commencing shortly. Please stop hectoring me about finding the link you want in a right-away fashion. You're not the only bee in the hive, and I find comments like "I'd like to help you become a respected one as well" patronizing and somewhat offensive. As are the various comments from others denouncing my writing style and "tone", while their own leave much to be desired. I'm already a respected editor; not to those who want every little detail to be linked, or who can't read more than seven sentences at once without freaking out. There's a lot of time-wasting inanity in Wikipedia discussions, often discussions about picayune matters by people who dn't work on teh actual articles themselves; and seem to spend all their time on discussion boards looking for things to delete or people to attack. As for the troll who has persistently harassed me here in course of this discussion, see his "rants" on teh mine disaster article, and also note my even-toned reply to the professional consultant there who is at least working on the article and not bitching about its title, despite his hasty POVish deletion of a cite needed item which was only days old.Skookum1 (talk) 01:24, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * As for DexDor, no sooner does he join Wikipedia, well within a few months, not long anyways, he launches into writing guideline proposals about categories..... why are there more people into rule-forging than actually doing something useful like expanding the encyclopedia instead of coming up with ways to regulate it? And please note the further attack on me, by someone who made baseless accusations and also 'do it now' demands on the mine disaster page, which I deleted in the course of this reply; what he's doing is harassment as are also his attempts to take part in a POV demand to match the BC government's own claims that it "is not a disaster" and throwing mud on sources, or questioning their validity without doing anything constructive on the article itself.  Another case of someone wanting to war over a title without actually being there for any other reasons; the collusion and close relationship between media, governments and corporations in Canada are a wide subject of public discussion in Canada of late, particularly in BC...but he's pretending I'm making it up and making demands I play "go fine me a shrubbery" for him; I've already amassed a huge number of cites to be used on that subject, and which bolster the current title, which I did not create.  I don't want to haul him to an ANI, I'm bored with procedural inanity and imperiousness, but I know a DUCK when I see one, and his use of recognizable buzzwords used by government and corporate supporters against those opposed to them and the use of personality attacks and accusations when on the losing side of an argument is also a very very very recognizable trait of the same group, whether actual p.r. people or from partisan "institutes" like teh Fraser Institute, or from the trollhorde which haunt Canadian news forums.  The IP user who launched that complaint with "who calls it a disaster" left in a huff, whining about how he was being treated, after I provided a large number of citations in answer to that, including comments from the local mayor, the provincial Privacy Commissioner and more.....that IP has been traced to a commercial building in Maple Ridge and, being that the agenda of his post is the government's position, may be from a "communications" firm or consultant; I'm having someone go by there and find otu what businesses are in that building...and am starting to think CHECKUSER should be look at re my harasser; there's an army of so-called journalists in teh BC Goverment "newsroom", an organization which bloggers in BC have traced hostile posts to more than once....Skookum1 (talk) 01:43, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Skookum1, I did not mean to that I was asking for it right away, just that I would follow up when time allows, unlike previous questions. Thanks for your Teahouse post which does confirm that you are aware to some extent of how you come across. However, you apparently missed the irony of boasting about your eidetic memory in a discussion about something you can't quite remember! OK, about the "respected editor" thing, what I meant was "more widely respected", then. You don't seem to like or intentionally choose to be disrespected, but what you do often encourages that response; so I was hoping you'd accept some advice about coming across better. – Fayenatic  L ondon 07:48, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Irony nothing, eidetic memory does not mean total recall on demand...and when I wrote the above it was early morning here and I had not slept well; I went and looked and realized it had been a "brain fart" from typing the same words just beforehand, and probably was looking at them while meaning to type whatever else. As you may have gathered by now, I have been rather preoccupied even within Wikipedia, never mind beyond, and haven't gone back to look at my involvement with other CfDs to look at whatever it was that was meant there.  And no, I don't really concern myself with "some advice about coming across better", what does bother me is people with short attention spans and narrow fields of view telling me to be as reductionist and simplistic on complex matters as they are, or to field TLDR and WoT at me because they are of this latter age of 10-minute attention spans and masters theses', so called, that are apparently shorter than many magazine articles.  I have often laid out detailed point often have them shoved aside pompously, accompanied by personal putdowns, by people who apparently want to remain ignorant of the subject matter at hand.  Or close discussions and block me based on their own personal dislike of me, despite there being lot of qualitative "votes" made in support of my position, all ignored because of being baited and bludgeoned, while accusing me of same.  It seems to me that knowledge tests and logic tests should be part of becoming an admin, so that somebody without knowledge in a given area presumes to close a discussion based on will full ignorance and a refusal to read what has been said because they find someone expecting them to be able to think and read, isntead of complaining that they do not have time or compare me to one of their students, or telling me I need mentorship.  The rule of the arbitrary enforcement of guidelines as "rules" iron-clad is accompanied by an apparent lack of knowledge of the full content of guidelines they have invoked in their overtly hostile closes; not surprising since many of those guidelines are longer than my own material; the bearpit of contrarianism and NPA that is the ANI sphere is notoriouis to many nonadmins, and they try to stay away from the place....which is charnel house of exiled and insulted editors, many of whom have abandoned Wikipedia, if not been banned from it altogether.  The core group's names turn up in nearly all arenas, of all kinds of subject areas, all pontificating and hectoring, and violates the guidelines completely, talking about personalities and writing style instead of the content issues that provoked the situation leading to the ANI.  In fact, they maintain that they don't need to examine that material, and no doubt they're often teh same people who scan discussions for numerical votes, rather than examining the quality of those votes and realizing which ones are faulty, knee-jerk hostile and/or just plain illogical and uninformed.  Time and again, e.g. with that current POV matter, or with things like Adrian Dix and BC Legislature Raids, the benefit of the doubt is given to the interloper rather than to the person they are attacking; and in the case of Adrian Dix the reporter in question shows no remorse at his articles on me, and on Wikipedia and "stands by his story" and now announces he doesn't want to "engage" the matter further.  Abusers like him and K-man and the current POV artist ( who I believe to me a COI/POV mole and with good reason) are handled with kid gloves and more politesse than they deserve, and I become the whipping post for people who like t o lecture and patronize just because they are admins.Skookum1 (talk) 09:45, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Your Teahouse post
Hi, I saw your Teahouse post from yesterday, felt the need to respond, and wasn't entirely comfortable doing it in "public" (I know this isn't really private, but you know what I mean).

I am very sorry to hear about your friend, and I hope I never have to go through something like that.

Wikipedia conflicts are hard enough on one's sanity without the added burden you are carrying now. If I were in your place, I think I'd be spending a lot of my time at the park and none at Wikipedia. See WP:WIKIBREAK. If you're taking Wikipedia into your sleep with you, it's a sure sign you need to change something for your own well-being—and I mean something more than the situation you're having with that article.

Someone else can protect the integrity of that article, if not now, then at some point in the future. Or, if not, it wouldn't be the first article that violates NPOV for a long time. Wikipedia is full of them.

I created a userbox for my user page, that I haven't added to the public gallery. Here it is:



Best wishes,  Mandruss &#124; talk  06:16, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * the article isn't really POV right now, though does need more content. A POV campaign to purge the title of an allegedly inflammatory word in the title continues to rage; please have a look.  It's getting past inane.  But yes, it's time to Wikibreak...and my guitar and I need to have a long talk, and I haven't been swimming in the Gulf of Thailand regularly for a while now, and need to talk to the sea....Skookum1 (talk) 06:34, 17 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Actually I have a little ADD problem and stopped reading your post about two-thirds of the way into it. Little did I know, you were already disengaging, so my little essay wasn't needed. Now I feel like a schmuck. Ah well.  Mandruss &#124; talk  06:45, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I have always been referring to the sources, the POV issue is the dispute that they are not valid, on very POV grounds, and that I have a POV, when really I have been trying to maintain NPOV rather than allow POV bullying and ranting to force a title change; by people who don't actually work on the article and are only their for that reason. To RM or not to RM, that is the question; I'll be curious to see what kind of shape this article is in a week or two.  Signing off....thanks again.Skookum1 (talk) 06:51, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I also read your Teahouse inquiry and encourage you to calm down and take a break. You admit your inability to be concise, but the Teahouse is not a place for experienced editors to post incredibly lengthy manifestos of frustration. It is supposed to be a friendly place for new editors to ask basic beginner questions about editing Wikipedia, in a place that is warm and welcoming. I read your post all the way through, and was too weary after parsing it all to respond or do further research. Not cool, in my view. Please consider another venue, or just take some time off. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  06:52, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Whatever happened to MidniteWiki...deleted or discontinued? My main thing with coming to the Teahouse was wanting to avoid the formal procedures, which incur engaging the person I need to disengage from; se my talkpage history for the four or so times I reverted his campaign of accusation; his original one, which is highly NPA/AGF, remains; apparently he doesn't get any message at all, and is hear to beat the drums of enviro-war only. I've seen the same from the "other side(s)" i BC politics...in fact my first block ever, by User:Zoe in the way back when, came about from the admin who blocked me misreading what I'd said and though I'd been threatened, physically or legally, or whatever, instead of what she had blocked me for, i.e. "uttering legal threats"....even once I explained that, rather than apologize she unblocked me with a comment something like now that I had made a retraction etc...but there was nothing to retract...I seem to recall it had to do with Sinixt articles; another area where POV infowar was raging only last year, tiresomely so. Try and be neutral, you're everyone's enemy. See on my maxims, "Truth is not a POV, it is the truth".Skookum1 (talk) 06:58, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I have never heard of MidniteWiki, but I know from long experience at the Teahouse that it is not the appropriate place to vent your concerns at such great, great length. Especially when you are removing other comments from your own talk page with edit summaries of TLDR. Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander. Cullen328   Let's discuss it  07:07, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * That's the ONLY time I have ever invoked TLDR, Cullen, and it was meant as an ironic joke; the ranting against me by the POV artist, accusing me of POV for not surrendering to my POV, then making personal taunts on that page, and here, I had no time for; it was 6 a.m. after little sleep, and it was just as much bullshit as it was last night, only more persistent; he didn't take the "go away" 'hint' and kept on coming back trying to taunt and criticize me further. I provided cite after cite last night, that article now has a sea of links with material that could gbe used to develop that article, irrespective of its title, but he's not here to develop the article; his only interest was in washing the title to suit a certain agenda and to denounce sources not controlled by the government-media-corporate alliance that underlays misrule in the pirate fiefdom that is British Columbia.Skookum1 (talk) 09:49, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

closing talk page to another user
I recently discovered that you have to leave a notice to stay off your talk page on the other user's talk page. Meters (talk) 01:13, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * That was never done when BHG and Uyvsdi deleted comments of mine from their talkpages; and BHG (Brownhaired Girl) is an admin....and "there are no rules"..."have to" should not apply re the Fifth Pillar ("there are no rules"). I don't want to have any more contact with that troll, he will ignore that template anyway.Skookum1 (talk) 02:06, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Anyone is free to remove comments (other than certain official notices) from their own talk page. I'm sure you know that. What I meant was that before you can take action for trolling your page you have to have notified them on their page. I was surprised to read that recently. I have to apologize in that I have not been able to find a policy that states that, or even to find the thread where it came up. Meters (talk) 16:47, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Kauxuma Nupika
For the record, surgery and hormones are irrelevant to the matter of gender identity — if a person who was born "male" identifies as female or vice versa, then they're whatever they identify as being regardless of whether they've had the surgery or begun hormone treatment or not; medical intervention is not a precondition of the process. (For instance, a transgender person who lived and died before surgery and hormone treatment were actually options at all, but did whatever they could to live as their internal gender identity within whatever resources existed in their time to do so, is still transgender.) The moment they say that's what they are, then that's what they are, period.

And what sources say is irrelevant too, as even today you can still find sources that insist on gendering Laverne Cox as male (I just read one less than two weeks ago) on the grounds that transgender is a fundamentally illegitimate phenomenon in the first place. But that can't hold, because the phenomenon does exist and is recognized by medical science as being a real thing — so medical science takes precedence over individual people's personal disinclinations to accept the way it works. So the question when it comes to gender isn't whether external sources identified Kauxuma Nupika as being male or female, but whether Kauxuma Nupika identified themself as being male or female — and while I'm not an expert in the matter, the burden of evidence clearly seems to support "male" as Kauxuma Nupika's own gender self-identification.

That said, if you have an issue you're going to need to take it up with somebody who's been involved in in any debate about Nupika's gender, because I've literally never even touched the article in my life except for some category refinement. Bearcat (talk) 20:28, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * It makes for awkward language and often contradictory gender statements in various sentences; and re self-identification, Sun Ra said he was from Saturn, so....was he Saturnian? (that's not meant as a flip comment but in all seriousness re his self-identification); and I won't go on about how indigenous peoples' self identification has been given short shrift in countless RMs and CfDs, but maybe only gender self-identification applies.
 * As far as I know there was no debate re changes to that article; if anything, it seems to have been the only thing done to "improve" that article in recent times; other than in Wikipedia I have always seen her referred to as "her". Nothing illegitimate about being transgender, but to me the use of modern language parameters on historical personages is just wrong.  There was, as noted, no consistency on usage within the article; even if all non-quotations were reverted back to the male gender forms, the collision between usages would continue to read very, very odd as far as normal word agreement in grammar goes.  BTW in David Lindsay's Voyage to Arcturus, the planet Tormance has a third gender throughout; he coined the pronoun "ae" (with "aer" as the possessive, can't remember the objective form).Skookum1 (talk) 02:11, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * There is no properly verifiable scientific evidence that life has ever existed on Saturn — maybe it has, but we can't prove that — so we have no basis on which we can accept somebody's self-identification as being from Saturn as actually being true. Medical science does, however, actually recognize and document the actual existence of an actual medical condition in which it's actually possible for a person's brain to be gendered differently than what's hanging between their legs. That's why gender identification is an issue of "person is whatever gender they identify as being", and planetary identification isn't — the scientific verifiability of the two claims is significantly different. And the issue of what name a First Nation does or doesn't use for itself is also not a comparable issue, as it has nothing to do with assessing the truth or falsity of the assertion — trying to determine which name for a cultural group, out of multiple possibilities, is the most readily recognizable to a general audience is not the same thing as an issue of self-identity in a biography of an individual person. Bearcat (talk) 18:42, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Precious again
  indigenous common sense and knowledge

Thank you, hacker of Beethoven's 3rd concerto, for quality articles for projects British Columbia and Thailand, especially caring for indigenous peoples and their languages, for the factual moving story of Endre Johannes Cleven, for having picked "up the garbage too often", and for leaving us "Consensus does not mean that stupidity and ignorance be given equal weight to common sense and knowledge." - You are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:09, 23 August 2013 (UTC) A year ago, you were the 583rd recipient of my  Pumpkin Sky Prize, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:50, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Please
I don't know what's going on, but PLEASE let me not start a fourth line on top of my talk, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:34, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

I'm not going to lie, you do strike me as a little angry at times for reasons I don't understand (and I say this as as a male who when pushed can be very aggressive), but aside from some minor referencing formatting issues, I've never thought you're anything other than a valuable editor. You've done a tremendous amount of good work on British Columbia topics and if you're serious about retiring long term I'll really miss you. I understand how annoying wiki can be at times so hopefully things will blow over but it might take time. We can't afford to lose productive editors like you.♦ Dr. Blofeld  12:15, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I'll be sorry to see you go too. I've been aware of, and appreciate, your many contributions to Canadian topics. Meters (talk) 18:48, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Alice Arm
Thanks for tweaking those coordinates Skookum, much appreciated. Not sure why they were originally targeting Vancouver Island. --kelapstick(bainuu) 11:56, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Nor I...may have been an old mistake on BC Names, not sure; I often let them know of errors...I think it was me who started Alice Arm and used what they had. When looking for coords for BC articles, I always go to BC Names/ for outside-of-BC articles then CGNDB.  Too many out there are "gns-wiki" or the like, which is OR.  In the case of Alice Arm, as noted in the comments, the geolocation of the arm is not the same as  that of the community, but the article is primarily that of the arm, so....used those coords rather than the community's; in future they may have non-rounded coords for the community;but BC Names is only one overworked person with filing cabinets full of notes yet to be transferred to digital.  BC Basemap is another place to go when the BC Names coords are rounded, as they often are.Skookum1 (talk) 02:16, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I more or less just took the general location of the body of water (I don't think it was labeled on Google Maps) and added it in. I will keep the spots to look you mention in mind.  Thanks, --kelapstick(bainuu) 23:37, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

Boya Lake and Charlie Boya
Hey Skookum

The Boya Lake Provincial Park article says the park (and I guess the lake) are named after an "Indian from the area," which you took from |the BC Geographical Names db. I just changed Indian to First Nations because I can't figure out his specific community. Any google searches for "Boya Lake" and "Charlie Boya" yield that same BCGN quote. I found, however, a Kwadacha guy named Charlie Boya had a cabin way up near Terminus Mountain, not too far from Boya Lake, both of which are between Kwadacha/Fort Ware and Lower Post. Do you think he's the Boya the lake was named after? Any other sources you might consult? Thanks. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 07:31, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
 * In that area, he'd most likely be Kwadacha (a branch of the Kaska Dena. A local history, if you can find one, might have something; or ask the Kwadacha Band or one of the Liard River bands maybe; if you're in Vancouver, MacLeod's Books has a good range of local histories from all over BC, and it's amazing how much can be out there about obscure corners of the province (in this case a really remote one overall huh?).  Doubtless the same guy, given the small population in that region, though could be father and son or whatever of course.Skookum1 (talk) 14:30, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Adam Matthew
Hi Skookum1, Are you still interested in getting access to the Adam Matthew database? Your application was approved and an email message with a link to the signup form went out on October 1. Thanks! HazelAB (talk) 13:34, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Internet here in Cambodia, and/or power supply, is intermittent; just haven't gotten to it though did see it, thanks.Skookum1 (talk) 02:52, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

Synonyms
Hello Skookum Sinixt: I was thinking about Arrow Lakes Band and Arrow Lakes Tribe when I referred back to Arrow Lakes. There was method to my madness. Peter Horn User talk 01:40, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Make that Arrow Lakes tribe. Peter Horn User talk 01:45, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Note my edit comment about "tribe" being unsuitable due to its other connotations in both countries; "the Lake people", "the Lakes" etc.... you do see "Arrow Lakes Band" in some sources...referring to when they still were a band (before Indian Affairs declared them "extinct"). As you know by now I adjusted "Arrow Lakes tribe" to "Arrow Lakes people" and took out the Band item altogether, as they do not have a constituted band in Canada, and though incorporated within the Colvilles they are not a separate government either.  The people/band/tribe usages were debated long ago and all these issues observed...but since then various title-meddlers without any regional context and awareness have screwed a lot of that early consensus around totally....more about which I'll leave aside for now, except that the muddle of "tribe" and such has often been imposed by editors from afar who don't "get" the realities of the usages.Skookum1 (talk) 02:24, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Your exposition is very enlightening indeed. As for the band being declared "extinct", well the band got screwed. What else is new. So the people "exist" only in the Colvilles. Peter Horn User talk 15:24, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
 * "extinct" in Canadian government terms means that the band (i.e. the designated government created by the Indian Act, not the group of people as such, were "decommissioned"...partly because there were none living in BC full-time, other than maybe one or two; I don't think there were even Indian Reserves set aside for them, though I'm not sure about that. It doesn't mean that they were ethnographically extinct, only in a sense of legally constituted.  One group that has never had official recognition are the Hwlitsum (Lamalchi) on Vancouver Island, who though connected and part of the larger "Cowichan" grouping (of which the Cowichan Tribes band government is only a part), they succesfully fought the Royal Navy (humiliated them is more like it) and part of the revenge was to give their lands to other bands, and not allow them status; Hwlitsum First Nation has some links about progress towards recognition.  Think I spelled that right anyways; I know them as the Lamalcha.Skookum1 (talk) 05:25, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
 * The Sinixt are considered by the Syilx (Okanagan) to be a subgroup of their own; and in their capacity as a component people of the Colville Tribes, are "represented" in the Okanagan Nation Alliance tribal council, which is bi-national; the Sinixt maintain they are a separate people...as far as Canada goes, that is; in the US they are integrated through government and marriage with the Okanogan of the Colville Federated Tribes. They also have a bitter long-standing rivalry /resentment with the Ktunaxa; one Sinixt editor here was going through all articles with Ktunaxa names and changing them to Sinixt, and negating Ktunaxa presence in the area concerned; I got called a racist for daring to police that and keep the ethno-vandalism under control; there's more about this kind of thing external to Wikipedia I won't go into.... suffice to say that "loaded language" is common on native topics, on "both" sides (or "all sides", since often it's not just native/non-native that's the dialectic; more like trialectic or quadrilectic at times).Skookum1 (talk) 05:38, 15 October 2014 (UTC)