User talk:Storye book/Archive 26

William Bunting (eco-warrior) date of birth
Hi there. I noticed you were the author of this article. I removed the date of birth given, because his personal archives held in the Doncaster Archives state he was 82 at the time of his death in January 1995, putting his birth year likely in 1912 and not 1916. Best.4meter4 (talk) 21:21, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the new research. I think we need more evidence, though. Sadly my original co-researcher has since died. Free bmd gives two William Bunting births registered in 1912, one with mother maiden name Greaves, in Doncaster. That looks like a good bet. There are no William Bunting births registered in Doncaster in the years either side (1911 and 1913). Do you know his mother's maiden name? Or his father's first name? I think I have got the Caulfield book somewhere, but it is currently lost among thousands of books here. So please let me know if you have any parentage information for him, so that I can decide whether to send for the birth cert. Cheers. Storye book (talk) 21:49, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately no. I only stumbled across the archive while trying to find more details on his death. At least we now have a month for his death. I would suggest possibly contacting the archive and see if you can get access to his personal papers (perhaps they have been digitized?) Those might give more personal details about his parents such as their birth names, etc. 4meter4 (talk) 13:44, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll put it in the queue. I've got a shamefully long list of WP tasks to finish. If you want to continue improving the article - please do! Storye book (talk) 16:13, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Survey about History on Wikipedia (If you reside in the United States)
I am Petros Apostolopoulos, a Ph.D. candidate in Public History at North Carolina State University. My Ph.D. project examines how historical knowledge is produced on Wikipedia. You must be 18 years of age or older, reside in the United States to participate in this study. If you are interested in participating in my research study by offering your own experience of writing about history on Wikipedia, you can click on this link There are minimal risks involved in this research.

If you have any questions, please let me know. Petros Apostolopoulos, paposto@ncsu.edu Apolo1991 (talk) 17:36, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
 * No thank you. I do not live in the US. But more importantly, I do not wish to take risks when "participating in your research". If you are saying that the risks are "minimal" then you are admitting that there are risks, and I don't know what they are. One possibility is that you may mean that your link contains viruses, therefore I have disabled the link on this page. Storye book (talk) 21:41, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Bernard Walter Evans
— Maile (talk) 00:02, 24 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Kudos to you on your outstanding work on this great article, as well as your excellent photo File:Gravestone_of_Bernard_Walter_Evans_(13).JPG. The detail you put into the picture description is extraordinarily helpful and useful in understanding what is shown (as well as no longer shown) in the photo! — Kralizec! (talk) 14:34, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for your interest. I struck me, as I stood in the graveyard looking at the two stones, that they were possibly reminiscent of the many prehistoric standing stones which survive on the Yorkshire Moors, where Evans spent much time painting - you certainly get the same feeling of respect when you look up at them - so that resemblance may partially explain the design. I have added a bit more information on the category page, which has a link to some older photos which show the monument before the damage occurred. The last old photo in the link (if you zoom in to it) shows the anchor lying on the ground with an engraved plaque on it. Storye book (talk) 16:06, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

Hampton-on-Sea
Thanks for your help and advice to my student Sarahegge regarding edits to the article about Hampton-on-Sea. These were undertaken as part of an assignment for a course at the University of Kansas (in the middle of the US, not on the coast of the UK!) for which the student undertook research on the case of coastal erosion and how it affected this town. I think it would improve the article to have them make additions to it, but they are a novice Wikipedia editor and not familiar with the styles and conventions. I will encourage them to persevere with useful additions to this article and perhaps some others. They have made the argument that Hampton-on-Sea provides a useful case study in the evaluation of threats by the sea to other coastal communities. I have pointed out that Reculver presents another case of this, in which coastal erosion can be demonstrated to have affected the settlement as far back as Roman times. Hoopes (talk) 21:03, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your response. I agree that your student Sarahegge needs and deserves a lot of support from you. For her to be encouraged by achievement, and not discouraged by deletion on WP, I suggest that any major edits by her are trialled in her WP sandbox and checked by you before publication. I would be happy to help with that, if anyone asks me.


 * I would also suggest that Hampton-on-Sea is a little different from the lost coastal settlements which are most well-known here, because the erosion has now been stemmed by a wall which I watched being built in 1959 below Tankerton, and by a stone revetment along Hampton Pier Avenue which we saw being created some years ago. (Gardeners stole stones from that for a while, but they've taken most of the light-enough ones now, and the thefts have mostly ceased). So that site is stable, as far as I know.


 * There are some far more interesting ones on the East Anglian coast and further up on the east coast, where buildings still appear in the newspapers, dramatically falling into the sea. Your student might find more interest in those sites? Reculver has become less interesting in respect of cliff falls, because only temporary homes such as caravans (or trailers in American English) are allowed there now. It is accepted that the Reculver Towers (the old church) will fall eventually, though not in my lifetime. Here is an article from the trashy newspaper, the Daily Mail, which for once is telling the truth. Here is a picture from an authoritative source, of the eroded coastal towns of east Yorkshire. Ravenser Rod (here called Ravenser Odd) is a famous one. Then there's Dunwich in East Anglia, of course, which now has almost mythological status - e.g. stories of church bells ringing under the sea, which is rubbish because if I remember rightly the bells were removed before the inundation. But if oral histories (true or not) are anthropology, then there is some good material there.


 * The general cause of east coast erosion is that England is rocking, so that over the centuries the west coast gradually rises, and the east coast sinks - and the soft earth cliffs on the east side don't help. Those towns in the linked maps give you the broad picture of the most at-risk coastal erosion sites in the UK - and it's something which would be happening even without climate change.


 * The erosion at Hampton-on-sea, on the other hand, happened due to the powerful ebb of the Thames into the North Sea and consequent scouring - a more specific and local cause - so maybe not such a useful example to be used in generalisations about other UK erosion sites. It's up to you to use the above information as you see fit, of course, but the articles will be more about geology and meteorology and continental plates and stuff than anthropology. On the other hand, if you want anthropology, many of our historical influxes of peoples and cultures occurred due to immigrating peoples landing on the east coast into ports which no longer exist - Ravenser being an important medieval one. Before that, in prehistoric times, our first peoples walked from what is now Europe across what is now the North Sea, because that sea was not yet flooded. Under that part of the North Sea are still archaeological remnants of settlements, and there are coal seams because there were once trees. Hope that helps. Storye book (talk) 21:50, 27 December 2021 (UTC)


 * This is enormous help. Thanks very much! The student completed the assignment in the context of a first-year seminar entitled "How to Find a Lost City." Students were charged with identifying towns and cities that had been "lost" for various reasons, describing how they had become lost, and discussing how they had been found and what could be learned from them. I had never hear of Hampton-on-Sea before this student chose it, but I thought it made for an interesting case. The main purpose of the assignment was to teach students how to use various resources--including using Wikipedia as a starting place--and then undertake additional research using newspapers, websites, and also the university library to identify relevant scholarly journal articles and books. It also emphasized critical thinking skills, having students triangulate on the facts from multiple angles, using different reliable sources to verify their information. I had encouraged students to use the Internet, social media, and email to reach out to scholars and others who might be able to provide them with tips. It sounds as if you are an excellent source, so I'm sorry my student didn't identify you sooner! The last assignment in the course is for students to return to Wikipedia and add some content on their own, giving back to the public some of the information they've been able to find in order to make it easier for the next person starting a project like this (or anything that would benefit from more complete information). If you look at my Talk page, you'll find a description of the final assignment and if you scroll through it you'll find some other examples of Wikipedia articles on which my students have worked over the years. The last time I taught this course, one of the best papers was about Lyonesse, a legendary "lost city" off the coast of Cornwall that is reportedly another place where "church bells" from the sunken settlement can be heard to ring (!), something that--as in the case of Dunwich--is just silly folklore. Mabrams864 made some helpful edits to that article on 30 November 2020 (although I now see that a portion of what she added was subsequently edited and reduced). Many thanks for your interest and your help! Hoopes (talk) 23:42, 27 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your appreciation and useful comment. I had a quick look at the contribution to Lyonnesse by Mabrams864. I did not look to find out how much was deleted, but I can guess that the contribution was problematic because each fact was not cited at its end, and once other editors come in and contribute, most of those sections will have orphaned sentences which then have no citations.


 * Another way of looking at it is that the article is really about mythology as such; it cannot easily be primarily about archaeological discoveries of some kind of Cornish Atlantis. Although not an anthropologist, I have long felt that mythology and storytelling are two of the best clues as to what we are as humans. So I would have liked to have seen those stories, underwater bells and all, used for that kind of analysis (quoting experts of course), rather than just being the sort of bare plots of tales that are trotted out for tourists.


 * Settled humans will bond to their place, and mythology of place lifts that bond to something quite powerful that is shared. I remember being told as a child of the man accidentally (or otherwise) buried alive in the poured concrete of Hampton Pier. That, as you will know, is a worldwide urban myth, and unlikely to be true anywhere, let alone in Herne Bay in 1904 when the very hands-on engineer F. W. J. Palmer was rebuilding that pier. However I can still remember where was the spot along the side of the pier which the children pointed out (now covered by the stone revetment), and I am still physically conscious of where it is when I stand on the landward end of the pier. This isn't about believing it. it's about humans needing the concept of an otherworld and mystery, and the very process of verbal storytelling. That is why, regarding the Lyonesse article, I would like to see expert views on the process of mythology given priority. Mythology is more than just lies and dull-witted believers. Even the word, "Lyonesse" sounds like the sea's surge on the shore. Storye book (talk) 11:35, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

January 2022 Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 16:03, 28 December 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging

The Bugle: Issue CLXXVII, December 2021
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 13:10, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - January 2022
Delivered January 2022 by MediaWiki message delivery.

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12:44, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

in friendship
Happy new year, in friendship! - Today seems like a good day to say so, after a Bavarian peasants' mass (sorry, on the train home, no recent pics of that - just keep watching), and two DYK, even with a pic I took. I enjoyed meetings with friends in real life, and wish you many of those. - Thank you for the Albrecht DYK review, - he must have introduced to many major operas. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:40, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Gerda - Happy new year to you too! Loved the pics - I would like to send you a picture from here, but I have not been going out, due to ice. If there is pretty snow, I'll send a pic. Cheers, and keep up the good work! Storye book (talk) 14:49, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you! - more pics when you click on songs --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:04, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

DYK for The Hatchling
Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:03, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Giant puppet
Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:03, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

Star
Thank you! Storye book (talk) 09:38, 10 January 2022 (UTC)


 * sorry I just found this; absolutely seconded! thank you for all the excellent and thorough reviews you do :D they are above and beyond theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/she) 13:26, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Storye book (talk) 16:34, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
 * wanted to say the same, especially today for your much-needed help for Elena Guseva. Without you, we might have ended saying something about her dark passion which was a translation mistake: in "dunkel lodernde Leidenschaft", "dunkel" qualifies "lodernd" ("blazing"), not "Leidenschaft" ("passion") - no idea how to do that in English. I'd love a review for BWV 157, hint hint ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:14, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Done. Storye book (talk) 18:41, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Joseph Luker
Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:02, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Bill Fleischman
I am struggling at my nomination for Bill Fleischman. I hope you could help. Thanks in advance. Flibirigit (talk) 17:55, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
 * OK, I'm having a look, but it's a long article and I'm reading it carefully. I'll respond asap. Storye book (talk) 18:13, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Done. Storye book (talk) 18:39, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CLXXVIII, January 2022
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 09:45, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the DYK review
Hi, thanks for the DYK review and the green tick! I appreciated your comments. I wasn't able to get to a public library yet to update the text from 1970 that I cited for party discipline, but will try to do so before the article appears. In the matter of citations, there's three reasons why I'm not a fan of templates. So that's my cite template rant! Thanks for listening, and again, thanks for the review. I'm gradually seeing how the review process works, and will start quid-pro-quo-ing soon. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 15:45, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
 * The first is that I do a lot of wiki-work in law-related matters, and people keep trying to shoehorn cases and statutes into the limited number of templates that are available in the "Cite" section. That usually results in a misleading citation.  For example, the number of cites to statutes in Canadian articles which list the monarch as the author of the statute are legion - and it's just plain wrong and misleading.  Cases similarly get mangled.  So too for links to government web-sites.  For instance, I've seen web-pages cited as "General, Office of Governor" instead of "Office of the Governor General".  (And even if it's a book or web article, the templates, because they are one-size fits all, often mangle it. For example, the article about Paul-Henri Sandaogo Damiba, currently mentioned "In the News", has a citation for an article by Jr, Philip Obaji. I don't know how to fix it, so it will cite to Philip Obaji Jr.)  Since I work with law related articles so much, and the templates just don't work, I don't use them, to keep the citation style consistent.
 * The second reason is that I worry that the more we insist on technical usages, the more inaccessible we make editing Wikipedia. It's not the encyclopedia that anyone can edit;  it's the encyclopedia that anyone with a certain level of technology can edit.  I know that's already the case, but the higher the minimum level of tech skills that are required, the more inaccessible Wikipedia becomes.  In my experience, people already are reluctant to edit, because of lack of confidence or unfamiliarity;  raising the minimum level of tech-skills by requiring the use of cite templates would just exacerbate the problem, in my opinion.
 * Third, and personally, I don't have good tech skills, and I have trouble with a lot of templates; I usually bugger them up, spoil the formatting on the page, and have to start over.  For that reason, I generally only use two templates:  the office-holder inbox, since it's pretty simple, and a template designed for citing Canadian statutes (Template:Cite canlaw).  However, even then, I often get the statute cite wrong and have to start over.  So between my own lack of tech skills, and the concern about making editing more inaccessible, I generally don't use them, in part because I don't want use of the cite templates to become the minimum standard.
 * Hi, and thanks for the rant, ! I guess we all have our needs, and you have argued a good case for the simple citation system that you are using. I guess we all have different needs, so maybe WP needs to retain all options. I personally need a WP citation form to prevent me from omitting things, for example. Please be patient with our DYK reviewers, though. Of course we are all doing our best for WP, and views do differ on that. But reviewers also have to get all sorts of articles created by editors with all sorts of attitudes through the system, without getting "thrown out of prep" by our small and hard-worked army of promoters, who have to double-check everything that they promote - so the process has to get every article past quite a few people with different attitudes towards WP standards and rules. My own attitude is to try to get the article through all those hoops before it is promoted, so that we don't get it back again for further improvement. In other words, I try to get the article to a higher standard than maybe I think it needs to be, just to get it past certain points of view. I think most reviewers try to do something like that, so please be patient. We are all doing our best to get the thing through the process and to get it accepted.
 * I have found, over the years, though, that my experience of nominating my own articles has taught me a lot - not just about improving my own editing, but also about humility. In the real world we are respected, maybe, for our experience, training and knowledge, but on WP we are all equal and have to do our best to fit in to accepted house styles and so on. If I'm nominating an article and I'm asked to do whatever, I will always do it, unless it is wrongful (e.g. immoral or untrue) or against WP principles. As a reviewer, I will always ask the creator/nominator to improve things where possible, but I have to have the humility to accept a compromise where WP or DYK rules will permit. It is interesting to see, though, how those without humility or ability to adapt are the ones who find it hardest to learn, here. So my advice to anyone aiming for their first 25 DYK banner is to think of it as a learning process. The DYK process for each article is transient, but the learning process for the editors concerned should be lasting. None of us are too old or too clever to learn. All the best. Storye book (talk) 16:24, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, yes, I certainly appreciate the work that goes on behind the scenes to make the front page work! Your comments were very helpful, and that's why I went looking for a better news article for the t-n debate on the graves, and moved the CPAC video to the "external links". Your comment made me realise that a four-hour video really isn't the best cite! I recently had an article accepted for GA status, and I also liked the feedback I got from the GA reviewer.  Made it a much better article.  Having a completely new set of eyes look at your work is immensely valuable for the final product.  Things that I've missed, or assumed;  things that need expansion;  things that don't need so much detail;  and just insightful questions that make it better! The volunteer nature of Wikipedia is one of its major strengths. Hope to run into you again! Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 17:14, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

February with Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 15:11, 31 January 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - February 2022
Delivered February 2022 by MediaWiki message delivery.

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17:48, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Ontario Highway 78
If you have a moment, could you offer a second opinion on AL2 at Template:Did you know nominations/Ontario Highway 78. Thanks. Flibirigit (talk) 20:54, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I'll have a look. Storye book (talk) 21:28, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Done. Storye book (talk) 21:41, 6 February 2022 (UTC)