User talk:Trappist the monk/Archive 6

Merger discussion for Yarsanism
An article that you have been involved in editing&mdash;Yarsanism &mdash;has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. MiguelMadeira (talk) 23:14, 22 March 2017 (UTC) --MiguelMadeira (talk) 23:14, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

In some benign wp:CANVASSING
Community input is politely requested for Jimbo's tkpg with regard ur expertise in gen. notability per wp:GNG & applicabilities of eg wp:PROF, wp:AUTH, etc. w/in AfD's ... here: User talk:Jimbo Wales.--Hodgdon&#39;s secret garden (talk) 00:54, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for eliminating coauthors=
I just wanted you to know that someone noticed the many thousands of edits you made to fix the coauthors parameter in pages over the last couple of years. Thank you. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:47, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Lowering protection on citation templates
Please see User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus. Since you are one of the editors of Module:Citation/CS1 I thought you might have an opinion. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 15:19, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for being one of Wikipedia's top medical contributors!

 * please help translate this message into your local language via meta

Thanks again :-) --  Doc James  along with the rest of the team at Wiki Project Med Foundation 18:08, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi
Hi Iris Medallion (talk) 15:28, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Redlinks
Hi Trappist. You may recall discussing hidden characters in the book template, at village pump. That all worked out fine for me, so I thought it might be okay to bug you about something else. Is it possible to ensure that redlinked usercats don't end up in "Wanted Categories"? They interfere with the work of editors who sort through and dispose of redlinks. Cheers.&#32;Anythingyouwant (talk) 23:15, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I am not at all clear about what it is that you are asking of me because I don't know what you mean by usercats. At the link you provided there was redlinked CS1 maintenance category (nothing to do with users).  I have made that link blue (mea culpa, I neglected to create it at the last cs1|2 code update).  That category is not intended to ever go away; even when it has been emptied.


 * So what is it that you want me to do?
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 00:01, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for replying. By usercats, I mean categories that are placed on user pages.  User:BrownHairedGirl recently mentioned to me that it might be possible to "create some tool to ensure that redlinked usercats don't end up in Special:WantedCategories."&#32;Anythingyouwant (talk) 00:35, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
 * @Anythingyouwant: Umm, no I didn't. I noted that other editors had floated the idea, but that I doubted it was readily achievable.  I reminded editors that unless and until such a tool could be created, it was unreasonable to base any decisions on the hope that it might someday appear.
 * If you want to pursue this idea, I suggest that the appropriate place would be WP:VPT.
 * Personally, I would advise editors and WMF staff against using their coding talents to add complexity to the software merely in order to disregard an error for the purpose of facilitating a v small number of editors who want to use the category system for purposes for which it was never intended. YMMV. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:59, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Here's your comment that I was referring to: "I note that MJP repeats their claim that they or the WMF could easily create some tool to ensure that redlinked usercats don't end up in Special:WantedCategories. My response remains the same: I don't believe that this is likely, but anyone who disagrees should feel free to create the tool, so that the editors engaged in categ maintenance can evaluate it. In the meantime, vapourware is no solution." Sorry if I misinterpreted.  I guess I should feel free to pursue this and WMF should not help.  :-)  I have posted at VPT.&#32;Anythingyouwant (talk) 01:07, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Your BRFA
Your BRFA, Bots/Requests for approval/Monkbot 12, has been moved to extended trial. Please post the results on the BRFA after the extended run, feel free to ping me to it. — xaosflux  Talk 11:51, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Your BRFA, Bots/Requests for approval/Monkbot 12 has been approved. — xaosflux  Talk 17:56, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

About moving ship pages
Hello, Trappist the monk:

Saw your message. Not good at English, so i ask another way to you , with the issue i had.

Before I moved those ship articles with adding hull number. I already saw some ship article with hull number, which are no need for disambiguator in it as well.

I wanted to ask, is there any problem of it ? Am i violate guideline that you posted ? Also, the main thing , Is my movement , affect your search of those article ?

Not trying to be rude to you but please understand i'm not good at English.

-- Comrade John (talk) 14:38, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Tonnage templates
Hi. It appears that first now renders the tonnages correctly, not as "tons" but as unitless "". Shouldn't we drop "deprecated", "improper usage" etc. from the template page? OTOH, I have never seen wording such as "" or "" being used anywhere. Should they be deprecated instead? It's either as "" or spelled out within a sentence in the long form (as I tend to put it in the article body; "gross tonnage of xxx, net tonnage of yyy and deadweight tonnate of zzz tons").

I also think we need "deadweight tonnage of xxx (metric) tons" alternative for DWT and the same for gross and net register tons. As you seem to be quite handy with the templates, could you add such functionality? Ideally, all templates should be able to render out in the same formats.

We can also take this discussion to WP:SHIPS if you think it involves the greater community. Tupsumato (talk) 03:48, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Our previous discussion about these templates is here.


 * first is deprecated because it is meaningless as a parameter name. Parameter names must, within the limits of brevity, be descriptive and convey meaning.  This parameter name does not do that.  Because the parameter has been deprecated for several years, it seemed time to do something about it; hence, the error messages and category.


 * Before venturing into revisions of these templates, I'd first like to clear the category and remove the deprecated-parameter support from the templates.


 * Doesn't already have a metric variant?  That template's second positional parameter or unit can be either   or.


 * While there was hardly any participation from editors at WT:SHIPS last time, I think it best, when the time comes, to continue the discussion there.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 10:14, 28 June 2017 (UTC)


 * I'll try to look into the tonnage templates and articles during my summer holiday in the coming weeks. I bet it'll rain.


 * I was about to write that I don't fully agree with your way of "repairing" tonnage templates in articles to read e.g. "" as I did not expect "gross tonnage" to be treated as a unit, but then I found out that quite many IMO documents refer to gross tonnage in such way (e.g. MSC/Circ.1157 begins with "The Maritime Safety Committee (the Committee), at its eightieth session (11 to 20 May 2005), noted that in a number of cases, cargo ships engaged on international voyages of 500 gross tonnage and upwards..."). While the Convention makes no reference to using any unit for GT and NT, perhaps we should take IMO as a sufficient authority to establish how to refer to tonnages in text.


 * However, "gross tons", "tons gross tonnage" etc. is still wrong despite appearing in a number of high-profile documents, and should IMHO be purged from Wikipedia.


 * Tupsumato (talk) 20:21, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
 * The repairs that I've been making are merely the deletion/replacement of the deprecated first parameter. That parameter must go away.  When it was used to make the template render in the long form (regardless of that form's grammatical correctness), the proper repair is to replace first with long.  In infoboxen, where brevity is preferred, removal of first is the proper repair.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 09:48, 5 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Okay. Sorry that I misunderstood the purpose of your edits. I may need your assistance in working with the templates later. Tupsumato (talk) 19:26, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Cite DVD notes/old
Template:Cite DVD notes/old has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 18:03, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

Hello
Hi Trappist. Hope you're well. Why is the Models.com template not working on Megan Puleri (per this query at Help Desk). Thanks. Lourdes 17:58, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Never mind. Handled by Crow. Thanks. Lourdes  18:13, 15 July 2017 (UTC)


 * It is, isn't it? The initial problem was that there was no   at wikidata for the model.  My first (flawed) and second fixes added the test for a value at wikidata: no , then fall back on  , or name or  .  That didn't get the the model's page at models .com but got the reader into the ballpark.


 * Now, someone has added the model to wikdata, so all is good, right?
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 18:16, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah :) See you around. Lourdes  18:20, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for all your help
Here and here. Pete "For he is a mixture of gravity and waggery" AU aka --Shirt58 (talk) 10:59, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Template:Time
Hi Admin! Is there any way to insert current day (like Thursday) on the Module:Time? Also, link date (like 'Thursday', '3 August' '2017')? Or is there any other templates already present for this? Hope for your kind reply, Thanks! M. Billoo 05:20, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not inclined to make those changes to primarily because of WP:DATELINK.


 * You might use this which, I think, does what you want:
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 09:44, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 09:44, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 09:44, 3 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks! I wanted to update it on User:UBX/User PKT, can linking be done on a userbox? Also, the code you provided here, how to add current time UTC+5 in it? M. Billoo 14:55, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
 * You might replace  with
 * PKT refresh
 * June 29, 2024 ←
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 09:26, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 09:26, 4 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Thank you so much for your kind response and help! M. Billoo 11:11, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi! One more question, sorry if I am disturbing you but I thought you were helpful. How to arrange them in similar, both are resulting different arrangements:
 * Can you please directly insert it in the userbox? Thanks again! M. Billoo 12:54, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
 * If I understand what it is that you want, try this:
 * when link is set to any value:
 * PKT refresh
 * when link is not set or omitted:
 * PKT refresh
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 13:31, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
 * PKT refresh
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 13:31, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

Ship image size
I think something broke when you made the change yesterday. Now the images are being displayed HUGE, or maybe their normal size. I started adding |Ship image size=300px to fix this and then found that you had made a change to the template. Please look further into this, I really don't think I'm crazy, well maybe a little. Thanks. PS- You may have to purge you're browser to get the image to grow, I just checked USS Omaha (CL-4) and it showed up normal but when I purged the page it grew to half the size of the screen. Pennsy22 (talk) 08:46, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I inadvertently deleted the last pipe in:
 * Fixed now, thanks.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 09:01, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
 * You're great! Thanks. Pennsy22 (talk) 10:38, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
 * You're great! Thanks. Pennsy22 (talk) 10:38, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Identifier error handling / doi-broken-links / identifier order at Help talk:CS1
Could you take a look at those? They've been outstanding requests for a long while now. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 14:38, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Invitation to Admin confidence survey
Hello,

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For the Anti-harassment tools team, SPoore (WMF), Community Advocate, Community health initiative (talk) 20:56, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Precious four years!
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:40, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Tiger Force
Only one of the bare urls I filled in with refill created a CS1 error. It would have been more appropriate to have simply restored the pre-existing ref. for the damaged one. I've now re-done the other bare URLs leaving the earlier ref. Regards, Eagleash (talk) 13:39, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
 * You are responsible for the edits that you make, regardless of the tool you use to make those edits, right? It would have been more appropriate for you (or any user of reFill) to observe that an error was created and abort the edit or fix the problem before saving.  Do not chastise me for that procedural omission on your part.


 * I have spent way too much time of late cleaning up after editors using reFill who have neglected to verify that the edits that reFill makes are useful and correct. I have also recently been noting at the tool's talk page, the rather poor quality of reFill output when the tool is confronted with malformed input.  Those notes, alas, have gone unanswered.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 14:02, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
 * There was no intended ‘chastisement’ implied in my message, merely a comment that it would have been simpler to restore the pre-existing reference rather than revert the whole edit and restore bare URLs.


 * I use Refill fairly often, probably more than once per day, and I’m aware that it does create errors sometimes. I like to think I check its edits as closely as possible but obviously I missed that one. None of us are infallible after all. Eagleash (talk) 14:39, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

CS1 identifiers?
Could you take a look at those? It's been months/years since the requests have been made, and no progress has been made on those. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 19:53, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Help_talk:Citation_Style_1
 * Help_talk:Citation_Style_1
 * Help_talk:Citation_Style_1
 * Help_talk:Citation_Style_1
 * Help_talk:Citation_Style_1

List of current ships of the United States Navy
Not I want to engaged in edit wars, but ignorant and arrogant Phuerbin continuously disrupted edits to the list recently, I haven't other ways to keep the list real-time and correct as always. 182.130.213.63 (talk) 17:46 12 June 2017 (UTC)

COinS question
I just saw you tag all of the pages in Category:Templates:Locations in bibliography with the "not COinS safe" template. Given that it appears these templates were designed specifically to go into CS1 templates, would you advocate for deletion? Primefac (talk) 12:08, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't think that it's obvious that these templates were designed specifically to go into CS1 templates; none of these templates, nor had any documentation and none have any discussion.  If you can show where the 'design' of these templates is discussed, please tell me.
 * I did think about TfD for these templates but a better solution might be to keep them and get Editor Anomie, who has a substing bot of some sort, to replace these templates where they occur with their plain-text English-language place names (without the html and css markup). I first encountered these templates while cleaning up  – in  the bot adds a redundant year parameter which it should not do.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 12:35, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Hmm, fair point. I misread some of the usage and though it was being used entirely in cite web templates. It does look like it's being used in "untemplated" references. Thanks for the input. Primefac (talk) 12:47, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Hmm, fair point. I misread some of the usage and though it was being used entirely in cite web templates. It does look like it's being used in "untemplated" references. Thanks for the input. Primefac (talk) 12:47, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

CS1 error for Access Dates at Kannada Wikipedia
i would like you to tell me how to fix Help talk:Citation Style 1, Since User:Omshivaprakash not active at wikipedia, and templates are protected i have asked a admin to unprotect that Module & i would like you give me a copy of Module that would work. ★ Anoop / ಅನೂಪ್ ✉© 13:51, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm willing to do that. Rather than create a custom version for kn.wiki, I would rather modify en.wiki's current sandbox version so that it handles date internationalization better and then import the en.wiki sandbox to the kn.wiki sandbox.  If done correctly, the only module that should need 'fixing' at kn.wiki should be kn:Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration/sandbox.  Once that is fixed, and tested, an admin at kn.wiki can update all of the live modules.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 10:01, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

Great work
Just wanted to stop by and thank you for your underappreciated and often hidden work. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 18:31, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

CS1 Identifiers Module at Wikiversity
Hi! I noticed that you seem very comfortable with the workings of Citoid. I'm trying to implement the Module:Citation/CS1/Identifiers functions on Wikiversity (discussion thread) so that they can be used when writing in WikiJournals (e.g. the WikiJournal of Medicine). Unfortunately the technical manual is beyond my level of expertise. Would you be able to lend a hand so that I don't break anything over there? T.Shafee(Evo &#38; Evo)talk 10:09, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Alas, I think that you are confused. Module:Citation/CS1/Identifiers is one member of a suite of modules that are used by the cs1|2 templates (., , etc) for the purposes of rendering the templates into something readable by visitors to Wikipedia (or Wikiversity).  WP:CITOID is a tool used by WP:VE to fetch metadata from a database where the key is an editor-provided identifier (doi, isbn, url, etc).  Citoid then renders a cs1|2 template from this metadata that the Module:Citation/CS1 suite renders into something readable.


 * My part in all of this is with the modules and templates. I have had nothing to do with Citoid nor with VE except to complain about them.


 * I notice that Wikiversity has an old copy (2013) of the module suite. A lot has changed and improved since then.  If you would like assistance upgrading the module suite, I can help with that, but am unlikely to be much help with Citoid.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 10:45, 22 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Ah! Thank you. I'd gotten the two confused. Now that you mention it, updating the module suite would also help a lot. If it's not too much work, could I take you up on the offer to help out? T.Shafee(Evo &#38; Evo)talk 11:38, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, of course. I'm working myself up to do an en.wiki update because it has been a while and there are a bunch of new changes waiting.  So, after that is done, I will copy the module suite to sandboxen at wikiversity from where they can update the live version of the module suite after some testing and consensus to do so.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 12:34, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

Volvo Engine Architecture cite repair
Hi, thanks for the repair. Good catch on the author list mess, I should have done that different from the start. However I don't quite understand why Tech Report is better suited than Journal. I don't disagree with the decision as per the Wiki definitions the thing is a tech journal, but as it currently is it takes away some fine detail that I regard as important. At the same time I don't think it makes sense to add back |url=... so that the |archive-url=... and -date=... are appropriate. I will argue that archiving is important as many Volvo related things have a tendency to "vanish" quite quickly. As unlikely as it is that SAE goes belly up within the next years, access to such pages is reasonably likely to get restricted. What would be the best solution to this? 2A04:4540:1104:8301:C441:5CF4:995C:8BFC (talk) 11:06, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I visited Volvo Engine Architecture because it was included in which led me to this citation:


 * It is not always true that a source with a doi identifier is an article in a journal; without journal is semantically confusing.  The suggested citation at the paywall page suggests that the source isn't a journal article but rather, a technical paper;  is the closest fit.


 * Doi identifiers are presumed to be permanent so redundant links to the paywall (url), and a link to an archived copy of the paywall (archive-url), are superfluous. Removing those parameters required that I also remove format, archive-date, access-date, and dead-url because they require url and archive-url.  website becomes meaningless without url so I deleted it.


 * I removed subscription because, in cs1|2, sources linked from identifiers are presumed to lie behind a paywall.


 * others is to be used to identify other contributors to the source. In this case, the authors are affiliated with Volvo Car Corporation which does not make Volvo Car Corporation a contributor.


 * I changed publisher to use SAE's complete name


 * I deleted year because it is redundant to date. On closer inspection, I should have deleted publication-date and set 28 March 2017 because I cannot find a a February 2017 date.  I should also have deleted 10 because cs1|2 does not support total pages; pages is to be used to hold multiple page numbers and / or page-ranges, not the source's total page count.


 * Did I answer your objections?
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 12:23, 22 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the detailed answer. I had and have no objection to the edit. As stated I agree that techreport is correct. My lack of understanding of how Doi is used has now been rectified. It will have to stay without all these parameters. I suspected as much that |pages wasn't used correctly, will take that out. The February date comes from an entry that the waybackmachine has from 9 February 2017 that states that the report is not yet published. That acceptable or not?
 * There is another techreport thing that I will try and cite correctly. Would be nice if you could take a look and possibly correct mistakes. 2A04:4540:1104:8301:C441:5CF4:995C:8BFC (talk) 12:57, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The date of the source's publication is preferred over the date that an archive of the paywall page was made. I'm not wathcing whatever it is that you're doing so ping me if you have questions.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 14:12, 22 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Changed the date to what is preferred. My question is for related to the same article (Volvo Engine Architecture), and wether or not I cited this doi (10.1299/jsmeimpt.2017.11-04) correctly. If it proves hard to find in all the cluttered text, it's the 5th citation and relates to the GEP3 entry in the infoxbox. Alternatively find it via the authors name which is Tomas Johannesson. Thanks. 2A04:4540:110A:1501:5834:95F3:19FD:BE80 (talk) 18:38, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
 * That paper is a conference paper contained (presumably) in the conference proceedings so I might cite it this way:


 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 19:01, 26 October 2017 (UTC)


 * If that is more correct than the current solution please change it. Although I prefer the usage of |author instead of |last & |first. And wouldn't |year be better than |date given that the publication date and conference date go out the window? TBH I have no idea what is good or not. As long as the general citation style is kept (type/language/url or other/author/website or other/format/date/doi/access-date/dead-url) I am happy. 2A04:4540:110A:1501:5834:95F3:19FD:BE80 (talk) 19:11, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Old comment
In re VisualEditor/Feedback/Archive 2017 1: It's not being handled differently from other identifiers. The same "redundant" link happens when you feed citoid a PMID. With PMIDs, I think it's probably justifiable, because most readers don't understand what the identifiers mean, and the URL almost always leads to something useful, e.g., an abstract. I'm less familiar with Worldcat's database, so I don't know how often it leads to the source rather than just a bibliographic record. If you feed it a doi, you get different links: dx.doi.org in the identifier field, plus a resolved URL (e.g., to that article at link.springer.com).

The Worldcat database is not public domain, and it's possible that providing this link is required. (I don't know; I haven't read the contracts myself.)  But see also T95376 for the PMID discussion, which may be the main rationale. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 05:05, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that, I guess.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 11:39, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

cs1|2 at wikiversity
@Evolution and evolvability re:CS1 Identifiers Module at Wikiversity

I have done as I said I would do. All of the modules that are the current live cs1|2 module suite have been copied to their sandbox equivalents at Wikiversity. It now falls to editors there to decide what to do with them. If you need assistance, give a shout.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 18:30, 9 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Thank you! Very helpful. T.Shafee(Evo &#38; Evo)talk 00:58, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

cs1|2 at kn.wiki
@Anoop Rao re: CS1 error for Access Dates at Kannada Wikipedia.

I have copied the current live-version cs1|2 modules to the kn.wiki sandboxen. cs1|2 templates using the sandboxen should correctly render access dates in any of the dmy, mdy, ymd formats. Errors will occur when month names are written using kn script. To make the modules understand kn script dates, replace the English-language month names in local table in the data_names table of kn:Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration/sandbox with Kannada-language month names.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:52, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Trappist the monk for your reply i will check it & reply you back with result or if i have any doubts. ★ Anoop / ಅನೂಪ್ ✉© 14:00, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
 * So it didn't work. Fixed now, I think (description here).  There may be other places in kn:Module:Citation/CS1/Date validation/sandbox that have the problem.  If you find them, let me know.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 16:14, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
 * @Anoop Rao: But there were other problems. kn script month names contain some character elements that are not   characters so   tests in   that use   return   so the date is considered invalid.  Replacing   in those tests with   appears to work; the   quantifier appears to be necessary.  I'll do some thinking about that.
 * Because Lua doesn't understand kn script digits as digits, I added a line of code that replaces kn script digits in a date with Latin character set digits. These replacements are used internally but are not used in the final rendering.
 * I changed kn:Template:Cite_web/sandbox to use the module sandboxen.
 * see kn:ಸದಸ್ಯ:Trappist_the_monk/ನನ್ನ_ಪ್ರಯೋಗಪುಟ
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 19:05, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
 * see kn:ಸದಸ್ಯ:Trappist_the_monk/ನನ್ನ_ಪ್ರಯೋಗಪುಟ
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 19:05, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 19:05, 12 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks for assistance access date is now working fine doesn't show error, ex:5ಜಿ . thanks again for your support & time. ★ Anoop / ಅನೂಪ್ ✉© 03:29, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * @Anoop Rao: It is not a good idea to use the sandbox versions of templates and modules in article space. There is no requirement for sandboxen to continue to work or to even exist.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 11:04, 13 November 2017 (UTC)


 * I have asked a admin to move modules from sandbox to actual module, waiting for his actions. ★ Anoop / ಅನೂಪ್ ✉© 11:10, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

MOS:Ety
Hello please see Template_talk:Lang-ar and compare with Template_talk:Lang-de. --Omnipaedista (talk) 22:04, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what it is that you are complaining about. I have edited ; I have never edited .  In one of the referenced conversations you mention Libya and Syria.  Those pages look correct to me: Arabic script rendered by  is rendered without italics:
 * → سوريا
 * → ليبيا
 * Is it something else that I'm not seeing?
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 22:24, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply. Strange; it seemed to me that there was italicized rendering a few hours ago. Everything seems fine now. Sorry for this inconvenience! --Omnipaedista (talk) 07:04, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

My editings at Abd-ar-Rahman III, Muhammad al-Tawil of Huesca
Hi, I noticed that you withdrew my editings to those articles. I used a very reliable book about the Hungarian campaigns of the 9th and 10th century, entitled "A magyarok elődeiről és a honfoglalásról" (About the Forefathers of the Hungarians and their Conquest), which gathers together the most important contemporary European sources about that period related to the Hungarians (Ahmad ibn Rustah, Ahmad ibn Fadlan, Al-Masudi, Constantine VII, Leo VI the Wise, Liutprand of Cremona, Widukind of Corvey, etc.). The book was edited by Györffy György, one of the most important Hungarian medievalist historians. This book, which you can find in the list of his works in the article, is a collection of the old sources about the Hungarians, first appeared in 1975 (A magyarok elődeiről és a honfoglalásról. Kortársak és krónikások híradásai. ("Hungarian Ancestry and the Great Migration. Contemporary and Chroniclers' Dispatches.") 2nd edition, enlarged. Budapest, 1975.), than in 2002 it appeared a new, expended edition of the book, which I used in my contributions to these articles. So I took two works from this book, which refere to the 942 Hungarian campaign in spain: Antapodosis of Liutprand (V.19) (p. 220) and the 5th volume of "Al-Muqtabis fi Tarikh al-Andalus" of Ibn Hayyan (p. 256-258). I can show you the online Latin version of Liutprand's Antapodosis, which writes about the Hungarian campaign, which I used (https://archive.org/stream/diewerkeliudpran00liud#page/140/mode/2up, p. 141, 2. paragraph). Unfortunately couldn't find the online version of Ibn Hayyan, which contains the bulk of the informations about this campaign. But its Hungarian translation is in the book edited by Györffy, whichs authenticity is undeniable. --Sylvain1975 (talk) 12:13, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
 * You are mistaken. I did not revert your edits to these two articles.  The reversions were done by Editor Agricolae; see these diffs:  and.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 10:47, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, and thanks. --Sylvain1975 (talk) 12:53, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Template:Lang-fi bug
Hello, FYI, i saw a bug with the lang-fi template that shows the template documentation on all articles that use the template. The examples are Finland and Nokia. Can you take a look at these articles and address the issue if possible? --Stylez995 (talk) 16:02, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. Fixed (and the 1000+ pages that transcluded the template docs have been null edited).
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 17:03, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Possibly useful
This may prove useful to you. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:11, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Cool, thanks.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 20:29, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Request repair
Please correct the error caused by the recent amendments to the Aramaic and Coptic languages, which led to the appearance of the capes in the Coptic language brackets under the name of Aramaic, thanks.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk), 4 December 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr gfr77 (talk • contribs)
 * I think that's already been done. Please don't use my name to sign your posts.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 22:39, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Looks like something is up with this edit to lang-sv too: it's leaving " " in articles. Does the tag need closing? --Gapfall (talk) 12:06, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * fixed, thanks, the original template used  tags which are meaningless (should be ).
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 12:13, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Those tags do have a function. --Izno (talk) 13:51, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, of course, I could have been more clear. In the context of how the  tags were used, they were meaningless.  As they were used, everything that would have been displayed on the template page without the tags is exactly the same as was displayed with the tags. When the two displays are the same, then the tags become superfluous.  For the version of the template that uses Module:lang, the correct tags are  so that the error message (because no text) is hidden.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 14:16, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Lang-so
Please immediately revert changes to Lang-so. Caused major disruption across all Somali-related articles. Somali is written in Latin script. Examples of affected article: Mogadishu, Mohamed Abdullahi Mohamed, Mohamoud Ali Shire.

We would need a simultaneous bot edit to remove the italics already used in these templates and the template should have italics set to = yes. &mdash;አቤል ዳዊት?(Janweh64) (talk) 05:42, 8 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Based on a request on my talk page I removed the line "italic = no". Cheers. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 07:22, 8 December 2017 (UTC)


 * It didn't work as it seems that uses of the template use '' . A bot is needed to go around and remove them so your update would work correctly. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 08:01, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * If using has always required adding italic markup to the Somali text, the correct solution would have been to fix the template long ago.  My edit to use Module:lang merely reflected the state of the existing template.  I will revert Editor CambridgeBayWeather, remove the no parameter, and run an awb script to remove italic markup from instances of.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 11:06, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. BTW, I am in full support of the move to Module. This was just causing a little chaos in many of the Somali articles I monitor. Did you catch my comment about the tangentially-related Ethiopic languages here: Template_talk:Lang. —አቤል ዳዊት (Janweh64) (talk) 12:00, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, I did. Thanks.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 12:04, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. My Internet at work is currently too slow to allow me to use AWB and make a run like that. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 13:15, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * AWB is being mind-numbingly slow right now. See WT:AWB.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 13:18, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Lyot filter
hello, could you tell me where can I order the Lyot Filter？Thanks. [email redacted] Richard Zhang321 (talk) 10:09, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
 * No, I can't.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 10:42, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Lang "ltz"
Hello. You seem to be an expert on the language templates, so perhaps you can fix this error. Articles containing are being categorized into Category:Articles containing Letzeburgesch-language text, which is a redirect to Category:Articles containing Luxembourgish-language text. Redirected categories are not supposed to be populated. According to, the code "ltz" should translate to "Luxembourgish", but apparently this is no longer invoked. How to correct this? --R'n'B (call me Russ) 11:23, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The custodians of ISO 639-3, sil.org, identify two language names for code  of which Letzeburgesch is listed first; see this record.  Unless it is overridden, when there are multiple names assigned to a language code, the new Module:Lang will always use the first name listed by the international standards.


 * We can override the custodian's preference but I would argue that that is not a correct thing to do. The common practice is to prefer ISO 639-1 codes over 639-3 when they are equivalent.  In this case we should be using   for which the IANA language-subtag-registry provides the name Luxembourgish but does not have a record for code  .  This is why there is no  because  exists.  I will look into making changes to the module so that it does the correct thing when presented with a 639-3 code when a 639-1 code exists.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 11:58, 13 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks for clarifying that. I've changed all the "ltz" codes to "lb", thereby emptying the redirected category. --R'n'B (call me Russ) 14:31, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Reference consistency at the Vagina article
Hey, Trappist the monk. I saw that you helped with the reference style at the Vagina article not too long ago. Will you continue to do so, like you do at the Clitoris article? I ask because it's needed help. For example, right now there are "defined multiple times with different content" issues at the article. Thanks in advance if you continue to help. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 23:37, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I can do that.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 00:10, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Related to this...I have gone through your edits so that I can learn exactly how to format them in this article. I noticed that for journal articles, each author is listed separately. Then for the books, the parameter |vauthors is used with one list of the authors. Is this right? Best Regards, Barbara (WVS) ✐ ✉ 23:59, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure that almost all of the changes since have used vauthors and/or veditors for the author/editor names lists.  Before Editor Flyer22 Reborn  I had fixed a handful of templates that use the discouraged authors parameter by simply inserting authorn parameters.  Those templates will be updated to use vauthors when I get to them.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 00:53, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Question
Hi, would you mind taking a look at refs # 550 and 553 in the refs section of List of current ships of the United States Navy? There is some type of error involving the "NVR Module" and apparently you're the guy that would know how to fix it. Thanks - the WOLF  child  05:01, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
 * DDG-127 added to Module:NVR/data. CVN-81 not in NVR so I've hidden that reference until NVR gets round to adding that ship.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 10:53, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Sorry
Ok then, I'll won't edit the main module then. Sorry for that. -- ★BrandonALF★ talk edits 00:08, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Test edits
Hi there. I seem to be having the same issue with an editor that you had here. This editor is now "testing" their template on high-traffic articles, and edit waring over it. I'd value your opinion. Thanks. Magnolia677 (talk) 23:39, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Things seem to have quieted in mainspace and the template is now at TfD.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 00:47, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Module:Lang broken
Something got seriously broken with the module. Take a look at Paracel Islands or Nanjing or any other Chinese lang template...  // Halibutt 01:44, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

南京市


 * fixed. Thanks for the notification.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 01:52, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
 * This page says a lot of "Lua error in Module:Lang at line 367: invalid value (boolean) at index 2 in table for 'concat'." error.--159.146.90.64 (talk) 10:41, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The error is fixed and that article does not show in so perhaps all that is needed is a WP:PURGE.  The physical server that serves you may not have caught up with the physical server that serves me.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 10:52, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

fyi
Hi, I noticed the comment you posted to Dallas S12345's talk page today and I watched to see if he'd actually reply. I was not surprised to find he simply deleted your comment as "unneeded info". A few weeks ago, User:Thewellman also tried contacting him about his problem edits and was also ignored. Since this user joined, he has caused numerous problems to articles, almost exclusively ship-related, and typically to infoboxes. I had to correct literally dozens and dozens of his mistakes. I tried repeatedly to get him to discuss his problematic editing, or even acknowledge it, but to this day, afaict he has never made a reply to a talk page comment. His talk page history tells a big part of the story. Many others have also tried contacting him, and/or warned him. Anyway, to wrap this... I don't know if you were aware of him before this, but you are now. If there is anything you can do to encourage him to engage with other editors when they try to discuss issues with him, or at least encourage him to learn how markup, infoboxes, MoS, etc., etc., work (along with basic spelling), it would be of significant benefit. I'll leave this with you. Thanks - the WOLF  child  04:55, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't think that you should depend on me to 'do anything' about this editor. Were he edit warring or being obviously and intentionally disruptive then perhaps.  As it is, 5 minutes, a simple regex, and awb fixed 64 instances of the misspelling I noted.  To the editor's credit, he did 'thank' me for my edit to his talk page.  Whether he took the message on-board is yet to be seen.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 13:43, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Nope, you mistake me. I'm not "depending" on you to do anything. I'm just giving you some history so you have a bigger picture of what you're dealing with. If you choose to do something, that would be entirely your choice, but it could be of a benefit for all of us. You're fortunate that he went to all the trouble of clicking on a "thank you" link in response to your post, because otherwise, the guy just doesn't communicate. Ever. Anyway, hope that clears everything up. Have a Happy New Year. - the WOLF  child  23:27, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Referencing
Thank you for your referencing repairs to Vagina. I just went back to one to reformat it and didn't get to the others before you did. Are those references that are named , as an example, correctly formatted? I just had another article that was gone over by another editor that changed all references like that to a different format. It was an editorial preference and not for consistency. This was certainly fine with me, though it messed up the page numbers. So I am a little confused, one editor wants their own referencing system that is quite different than the ref formatting in the Vagina article. I still intend to follow the format that you have established. Thank you again. Best Regards, Barbara (WVS) ✐ ✉  23:01, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Never mind, I fixed them. There were only three. TX Barbara (WVS) ✐ ✉  23:20, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

AWB pass through lang template error category?
I do not have access to AWB or the regex skills that you have, but if I did, I would consider building a bit of good will by making a pass through the lang template error category to fix the "easy" patterns, like this one and maybe even this one. It might ease the pain of this transition. Would you be willing to make a pass through the category to pick this low-hanging fruit? I can follow behind you to do the more manual fixes.

Another note: I have been poking through the category, and I have found a few templates that needed updating to handle missing language codes. As these templates refresh through the job queue, the category is shrinking slowly. I suspect that there are more such templates; I found all of those in the "A" section of the TOC. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:36, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
 * As I dig into the category farther, there are a lot of films where (I believe) yes is the easy fix, rather than simply removing the italic markup. Petscan might help make a list of pages for that AWB run, combining film articles with lang template error articles. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:51, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Would like your input in a discussion
Hi,

I would appreciate it if you could give your input regarding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_naval_ship_classes_in_service#Split_this_article_into_multiple_articles Thanks in advance Dragnadh (talk) 01:57, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Template:Lang-x/doc invokes Module:Lang/sandbox
Template:Lang-x/doc invokes Module:Lang/sandbox. Is this intentional/temporary? We don't usually call sandboxes from the production namespaces. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:43, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that; fixed.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 17:49, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

template editing help
Hi Trappist- I posted a question at Template_talk:External_peer_review that I'm guessing you can answer. But in any case, is there a template that I could have added to my post that would ping the template editor community somehow? I poked around Template_editor, but didn't find guidance. Thanks in advance. Eric talk 13:05, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Buryat
Alright, if this is a no-go, we need a different solution. The Wikipedia article is at Buryat language (per WP:COMMONNAME, I assume, which is the way it should be), but whenever is used, it links to it via Russia Buriat language, which looks very odd in text. We need a link to a commonly used name, not to IANA nerd-speak :) Any suggestions?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 1, 2018 ; 15:58 (UTC) On that note, what is even the significance of using exact IANA names in the Language Module? Isn't serving the language name to various templates that module's primary purpose? In which case wouldn't it make a whole lot more sense to use the actual articles' titles and not the names IANA made up? Especially considering that probably only a handful of languages would be affected by this? What am I missing here?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 1, 2018 ; 16:34 (UTC)
 * See the example changes that I made to Coat of arms of the Republic of Buryatia.
 * I moved the template out of the  template because that mixed English with the non-English; I added  to the  because anyone linking to the footnote from article text should still be in context though it would be equally acceptable to repeat the use of  in the footnote.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 16:12, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for fixing the refns; I've overlooked that problem myself. As for the fix, are you saying that manually adding a label is the only way to address the language name display problem? To me it just seems a quite inefficient approach... one would have to do it manually in every article where  is used, and of course most editors are not comfortable enough with the lang templates to figure out why the heck the link is what it is in the first place. Seems like an unnecessary maintenance backlog in the making, is all...
 * Thanks for fixing the refns; I've overlooked that problem myself. As for the fix, are you saying that manually adding a label is the only way to address the language name display problem? To me it just seems a quite inefficient approach... one would have to do it manually in every article where  is used, and of course most editors are not comfortable enough with the lang templates to figure out why the heck the link is what it is in the first place. Seems like an unnecessary maintenance backlog in the making, is all...
 * I only fixed one.
 * The primary purpose of the and  templates is to produce correct html for browsers and screen readers so that they render/speak non-English text correctly.  Browsers and screen readers need to know the language code and editors here need to be able to correctly specify that code.  Buryat language lists codes for:
 * → Buriat (a macrolanguage)
 * plus these individual languages:
 * → Mongolia Buriat
 * → Russia Buriat
 * → China Buriat
 * I have a strong preference for using the names of languages as they are associated by IANA and ISO 639. These names are not names that IANA made up but rather are names from international standards – that is not to suggest that the opposite case it true (that because IANA names are not made up, en.wiki article names must therefore made up).  By using the names from an international standard we cement the code/name relationship as they are used in the  templates.  We can override IANA names when there is sufficient reason to do so as may be the case here.  Yeah, 'Russia Buriat language' is awkward.  Perhaps we override the three individual language names to:
 * → Mongolian Buriat
 * → Russian Buriat – needs a redirect
 * → Chinese Buriat – needs a redirect
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 17:42, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * It doesn't really matter which names are "made up"; what matters is that the displayed name (no matter how technically accurate) does not correspond to the title of the article being linked to, for no obvious good reason. The titles of Wikipedia articles are chosen to conform with WP:COMMONNAME, not with IANA/ISO standards, and while producing correct HTML for screen readers is of course an important concern, it should not be addressed at the expense of the majority of the actual Wikipedia readers&mdash;the people who actually get to see those lang templates! The "Russia Buriat" (and even the "Russian Buryat") variant seems to be seldom used outside of the context dealing with IANA/ISO standards; needless to say, the majority of our articles which utilize deal with much broader topics, which happen to include a Buryat name. That said, changing the links to use proper adjectives (Mongolian, Russian, Chinese) and the romanization we actually standardize on (Buryat), would be a good start. I've created the Russian Buryat language and Chinese Buryat language redirects (the Mongolian Buryat language redirect already exists); would you mind changing the Language Module to utilize those? I would be satisfied with this solution for now, leaving further discussion to native Buryat speakers, should they ever express an interest in pursuing this. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 1, 2018 ; 18:19 (UTC)
 * done:
 * → Буряад Республикын гурэнэй герб
 * and won't work because those templates don't exist – they shouldn't be created until needed.
 * Hold on, first you suggest that the names preferred by the template are names that IANA made up but now say that made-up names don't matter.  What?
 * You wrote: The titles of Wikipedia articles are chosen to conform with WP:COMMONNAME, .... Correct, we agree.  But: WP:COMMONNAME applies to, not to wikilinks.  It is not necessary nor required that wikilinks to article titles conform exactly to the target title.  Were that the case then piped links and redirects would not be permissible.
 * I did write that the primary purpose of the [templates] is to produce correct html for and screen readers (emphasis added). Browsers require correct html so that they know how to render the non-English text for that majority of ... actual Wikipedia readers you mentioned.
 * If I understand what you wrote then if articles using are using it when the 'generic' (for lack of a better term) macrolanguage template  would serve just as well or better, that suggests to me that using the names associated with the IANA / ISO 639 language codes is beneficial.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 22:23, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Hold on, does the label displayed in the wikitext preceding a given string in a foreign language have any effect on how browsers or screen readers render that string? On a side note, the point that Ezhiki is making is more or less the same one I've been trying to get across, apparently without any success, on the talk page of Template:lang. – Uanfala (talk) 00:16, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The language label has no effect on browsers; I have never said that it does. But, the IANA / ISO 639 code does effect browsers and that was the point I was trying to make in response to the module's primary purpose  voiced by Editor Ëzhiki.
 * I'm pretty sure I understand the point that you are attempting to make. I understand that both of you are invoking WP:COMMONNAME in an attempt to control the wikilink label that the  templates render.  I contend that WP:COMMONNAME has no authority to assert such control over templates, over wikilinks, over redirects. I agree that WP:COMMONNAME has the authority to control article titles but that is all.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 01:28, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The argument is not about COMMONNAME, but about the choice of label reflecting the title of the corresponding article, rather than the name that appears in an arbitrary internet resource. – Uanfala (talk) 01:41, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, they did "make them up" (good luck funding these terms outside of IANA's context), yet it "doesn't matter" for the purposes of discussing these terms in the IANA context. It does, however, matter when all we need is to link to an existing article about the language. We can, of course, link via a redirect (which is sometimes unavoidable and sometimes even necessary), yet I would argue that for the sake of this particular lang template, the redirect is neither unavoidable, nor necessary (yet it is incredibly awkward, odd-looking, and seldom used in general context). I never said WP:COMMONNAME should guide what the links should look like; I do, however, believe, that articles should not be linked via a redirect (especially from templates) when there is no obvious reason to do so.
 * Anyway, thanks for taking care of it. My grievances are satisfied :) Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 2, 2018 ; 17:17 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure I understand the point that you are attempting to make. I understand that both of you are invoking WP:COMMONNAME in an attempt to control the wikilink label that the  templates render.  I contend that WP:COMMONNAME has no authority to assert such control over templates, over wikilinks, over redirects. I agree that WP:COMMONNAME has the authority to control article titles but that is all.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 01:28, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The argument is not about COMMONNAME, but about the choice of label reflecting the title of the corresponding article, rather than the name that appears in an arbitrary internet resource. – Uanfala (talk) 01:41, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, they did "make them up" (good luck funding these terms outside of IANA's context), yet it "doesn't matter" for the purposes of discussing these terms in the IANA context. It does, however, matter when all we need is to link to an existing article about the language. We can, of course, link via a redirect (which is sometimes unavoidable and sometimes even necessary), yet I would argue that for the sake of this particular lang template, the redirect is neither unavoidable, nor necessary (yet it is incredibly awkward, odd-looking, and seldom used in general context). I never said WP:COMMONNAME should guide what the links should look like; I do, however, believe, that articles should not be linked via a redirect (especially from templates) when there is no obvious reason to do so.
 * Anyway, thanks for taking care of it. My grievances are satisfied :) Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 2, 2018 ; 17:17 (UTC)
 * Anyway, thanks for taking care of it. My grievances are satisfied :) Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 2, 2018 ; 17:17 (UTC)

Template:Lang
I looked on the template talk, but there's too much to answer the simple question: will the template return to doing nothing about italics, as thousands of articles have it, or will it continue to force italics where they are not wanted? - I manually, because I don't want it to look ridiculous when on the Main page. I know of hundreds of articles that do look ridiculous. If the template is supposed to stay as it is now, can we at least have a bot to make the changes? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:59, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The simple answer to the simple question: unlikely to return to the old ways. Bots are problematic because they cannot make a distinction between text that should be quoted and text that should be italicized unless they are provided with an exact list of text strings that should be quoted.  Context is everything; context is easy for the human brain; context is not easy for the robot brain.


 * I have posted a comment in reply to your post at Template talk:Lang.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 00:56, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thinking of the tedious and uncreative task ahead for me which will take a year at least: why is such a thing done? When a template has a certain function, and thousands of inclusions rely on that function: why change??? (If a different function is wanted, that could be done by a different template, no?) Look at an example: Lutheran hymns. (sorry: the navbox didn't use the template All the hymns in quotemarks should not be italic. Same problem in each of these hymns, + their texts, + other hymns mentioned. As said above: Mit Fried und Freud ich fahr dahin, BWV 125 will appear in a day and some hours. I guess I can now nonstop fix the articles linked from it and do nothing else with my life. Cantata titles should be italic, but the BWV number not. Not possible with a lang template that puts everything in italics. He wrote around 200, + several motes, chorale preludes, - same problem, and many of these have many links ... - Not amused. Any help? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:15, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I acknowledge that change is sometimes (often?) difficult. Until now, every Latin-script text wrapped in  that should be italicized had to be italicized manually.  You have been the recipient of a 'benefit' that put the work burden on many other editors.  It is not my intention to make life harder for you but it is my intention to make  and the 650-ish  templates consistent by having them render in similar ways when given similar inputs and parameter values:
 * → Mit Fried und Freud ich fahr dahin
 * → Mit Fried und Freud ich fahr dahin
 * This consistency will benefit editors, both here and at the other wikis that use Module:lang, now and into the future, long after you and I have retired from editing.
 * I did offer here, and again here, to create a minor-title language template what would take the same parameters in the same order as and properly render the text in quoted upright font.  That offer has been rejected by another editor and ignored by you.  The offer remains on the table but, it should be noted that, as a solution, it is no panacea; editing will be required.
 * You wrote: Cantata titles should be italic, but the BWV number not. Not possible with a lang template that puts everything in italics. This is not true as your own example link shows:
 * → Mit Fried und Freud ich fahr dahin, BWV 125
 * How would you have me help? Do you have a list of titles that clearly show how they are to be rendered from which I might create a tool that can do a one-for-one replacement?
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 18:34, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * How would you have me help? Do you have a list of titles that clearly show how they are to be rendered from which I might create a tool that can do a one-for-one replacement?
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 18:34, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 18:34, 31 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the reply! Let's see. Example Richard Strauss, the version we had. The songs are italic (with the exception of the one that happens to have no Lang, but they shouldn't be. Imagine you are a new editor and look at the code, - will you understand why the operas have italic markup, but the songs not, and then look the same? I think it should be possible to make a bot
 * remove all those italic markings when they surround a lang-template (not wrong but confusing)
 * insert "|talic=unset" when quotation marks surround a lang-template
 * (perhaps more difficult:) insert the same when italics occur within a lang-template.
 * Life is too short to remove the italics from the operas manually. I did the others in this case because they change appearance.
 * About the reasoning: many Latin words that became common terms in English should NOT be italic, for example Nunc dimittis and Te Deum. I intentionally never used Lang-de (or other languages) because of the unwanted italics it produces.
 * I am sorry that I was too short, regarding the Bach compositions. The problem is that without intervention you now get it all italic. I wonder if we could make a list of wanted coding for Bach's compositions when linked, example:
 * BWV 125 I: Mit Fried und Freud ich fahr dahin, BWV 125 because how should a new editor know that? And again: how will the present unwanted appearances all over project change?? Thinking further: it seems more elegant to move the lang-template into the link (I didn't know that was possible):
 * BWV 125 II: Mit Fried und Freud ich fahr dahin, BWV 125 Mit Fried und Freud ich fahr dahin, BWV 125. What do you think? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:28, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I copied the content of into a text editor and used its search-and-replace to replace all of the no with unset except for "Notturno" where I removed an extraneous no.  With that same editor I wrote a regex search and replace that removed the extraneous italic markup (this is here more for me than for you):
 * search:
 * replace:
 * I have changed your unordered list to an ordered list so that we both know which list item is being discussed.
 * the above mentioned regex should be able to take care of most instances italic markup wrapping . But there is a caveat: it is permissible (and required by MOS:FOREIGNITALIC) to italicize major titles except for CJK scripts so a bot or AWB script must be clever enough to determine when the non-English text is auto-italicized by.
 * a similar regex can add unset when is wrapped in quote marks and the non-English text is Latn script (no need to add unset when the non-English text is written with other than Latn script).  As an adjunct, quote marks wrapping the whole text but inside the template can be moved outside (this, more for consistency than for any other reason).
 * italic markup inside the template that wraps the whole of the non-English, Latn-script text should be removed; unset should only be added when the Latn-script text is not wholly wrapped by italic markup (your BWV 125 example).
 * I do not understand why Editor Halibutt is pinged into this conversation.
 * We agree, loan words should not be wrapped in templates.
 * Wikilinks complicate everything. It is easy for the human brain to, at a glance, see and understand the markup; it's more complicated for an automaton's brain.
 * Your notion to use in the label portion of a wikilink works here but does not work in mainspace because all of the  and  templates add categorization when they are used in mainspace.  Your BWV 125 II example, when in mainspace, produces this output which is then handed to MediaWiki for final rendering:
 * MediaWiki does not support wikilinks within wikilinks.
 * As real life permits I will pick away at an awb script that can do some of the things described above. I will use the list of articles in  as a test bed.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 14:12, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * MediaWiki does not support wikilinks within wikilinks.
 * As real life permits I will pick away at an awb script that can do some of the things described above. I will use the list of articles in  as a test bed.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 14:12, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * As real life permits I will pick away at an awb script that can do some of the things described above. I will use the list of articles in  as a test bed.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 14:12, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

You asked for lists? All Bach compositions which have the BWV number for disambiguation (many!), one way or the other, all songs, all hymns, all poems, - as far as the template is used, and not only the articles but all links to them that use the template. That's only for unwanted italics. Many more if the extra italics that are now obsolete are a concern. - Thank you for your repair to Strauss, - how about all compositions of the template, and their links? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:25, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * That is not exactly what I was asking for. The question was about a list of specific minor titles written in the correct for so that a tool might search for all instances of that title and do one-for-one replacements.  This is different from the regex sort of evaluation that is described above.  Instead it is a more brute-force method.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 14:21, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your patience. I wish I could ping Halibutt, his life was short. - I looked at Ich habe genug, BWV 82, or with the complete markup Ich habe genug, BWV 82 It has a bit of everything:
 * The title by itself
 * other cantatas
 * the movement titles
 * quoted German text
 * For 1 and 3, I removed the italic markup
 * For 2, the other cantatas (when linked), I applied "italic=unset"
 * For 4, the quotes, I applied "italic=no"
 * Here's the List of Bach cantatas. The article names follow (more or less) the same building scheme: German title / a comma / "BWV" number. Exception: When the German title ends on a "?" or "!" the comma is onitted. - Many German titles are equal to those of hymns, which should be in quotation marks and not italic, as minor works. Within an article, the different look helps telling when we speak of the cantata, and when of the hymn on which it is based. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:39, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Why is quoted German text not italicized?
 * MOS:NOITALQUOTE seems, to me, to suggest that non-English quotations should be italicized:
 * "It is normally incorrect to put quotations in italics. They should only be used if the material would otherwise call for italics, such as for emphasis or to indicate use of non-English words ." (emphasis added)
 * This is one of those difficult things for a bot. How to distinguish a German language quote from a German language minor title?  Because to a bot, which cannot detect context, a string of quoted German words is just that; it is not a string of German words that form a minor title nor is it a string of German words that is a quotation.  And it's made more difficult when the quotation is the same as the name of the work – incipits, for example.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 12:53, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I handled by now all hymns in Category:German Christian hymns, but only the articles, not the links to them. (Same for Christmas carols in German) - Your question: it makes no sense to not italicize minor titles, but to italicize quotes. My understanding: italics are meant to separate other text from normal text. When quotation marks do that, what would it help to have italics on top? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:22, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
 * It's that context thing again, isn't it? MOS has a purpose of imposing consistency on en.wiki articles for the benefit of readers.  Because of MOS, readers come to know that non-English words are italicized except when those words are a minor title in which case the non-English words will be enclosed in quote marks.  Quoted italics are a clear indication of non-English words that are neither a major title (because of the quote marks) nor a minor title (because of the italic font).  I think that MOS:FOREIGNITALIC and MOS:NOITALQUOTE (also here) are rather clear on this, aren't they?  If not, perhaps the issue should be taken up at WT:MOSTEXT.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 11:25, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I have not enough time to write the articles I would like to write, and you send me to argue about the MOS ;) - Within an article about a cantata in German, why would it make sense to italicize the lyrics, for example, which stand separately (and often followed by a column headed "Translation"), and why the incipits? Once German is established as the language of a piece, it should be no surprise that the text parts are in German, so the extra indication by italics is for whom? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:49, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I suggested WT:MOSTEXT because clearly you and I disagree. I think that you are trying to distract; I have written nothing about whole sets of lyrics (though I have an opinion about those too).  My example was the quoted lyrics used in the article prose.  In the example from Ich habe genug, BWV 82, the non-English words are not the title, rather, they are simply words quoted from the lyrics.  Because they are non-English and because they are not used as a minor title, MOS says that they should be italicized.  When an incipit is used in lieu of a title, the type of the work should dictate how we present it to the reader per MOS:MAJORWORK or MOS:MINORWORK.  When the words of a non-English incipit are quoted in prose, the words of the incipit are just words so are presented to the reader just as any other non-English words with quote marks indicating that the editor is quoting and not using the words for their grammatical meaning.
 * I will point out that the word 'German' is not used in the prose of the Ich habe genug article so it is not established as the language of [the] piece. And even if it were established, MOS apparently doesn't offer that as one of the exceptions to the italicize-non-English-words rule.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 15:14, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I have written articles on Bach's works from 2010, several FAs and GAs, and nobody has ever requested to say that they are in German. - When we have italics for all, 1) cantata titles, 2) their movement titles, 3) quoting the incipit of a movement, 4) quoting other text, we loose distiction. - Where is consistency if mentioning a hymn title in quotation, but other text from perhaps that same hymn additionally italic? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:02, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * identifies non-English language text for the browser but does not do the same for the reader. I cannot speak to the actions or inactions of FA and GA reviewers.
 * Doesn't MOS:MINORWORK require movement titles to be rendered upright and quoted?
 * Consistency comes from hewing to the established style set out by MOS. Distinction comes from context so it is the editor's part to write accompanying text in a manner that makes the context clear.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 11:55, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Doesn't MOS:MINORWORK require movement titles to be rendered upright and quoted?
 * Consistency comes from hewing to the established style set out by MOS. Distinction comes from context so it is the editor's part to write accompanying text in a manner that makes the context clear.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 11:55, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 11:55, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Im so totally messed up here
Im trying and have bein for3hrs now i can't seem to do electronic signature..plz can someone plz help me.ty Leachmarie (talk) 06:40, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by electronic signature and this page is the only page that you, by the name of Leachmarie, have edited so I can't even make a guess based on your edit history. Can you give more information?
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 10:17, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

re Template:Ship
Please consider my "Thanks" undone. You did not understand that replies to your 8-threaded post is a basic talk-thread? - DePiep (talk) 22:21, 2 March 2018 (UTC) Well, this is not a very nice comment. Trappist the monk is correct, you shouldn't alter someone else's comments. If someone makes a multi-point comment that you want to reply to, point for point, I find the talk quote template and bullet points helpful;

Example, an editor posts comments with; blah, blah, blah. signature
 * example 1
 * example 2
 * example 3

Copy the entire post, less signature, then reply;


 * Your response, yadda, yadda, yadda;
 * example 1
 * Your reply to example 1
 * example 2
 * Your reply to example 2
 * example 3
 * Your reply to example 3
 * Then wrap up your reply and sign

At least, that's how I do it, seen others do it, and never had a problem with it. - the WOLF  child  00:30, 3 March 2018 (UTC) (non-involved observer)
 * You are wrong. I did not alter Ttm's comments. -DePiep (talk) 00:36, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * OK, if you say so, I won't debate it. I took a glance at the other page and saw Tttm's comment, hence my reply. I don't have a dog in this fight, I just wanted to make a suggestion I thought you might find helpful. Use it. Don't use it. Up to you. Have a nice day. - the WOLF  child  00:53, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * (ec) re Nice, thx. Really, I've never ever met Ttm like this before. I have loads of patience available here. (BTW, not "if you say so", just heck the diffs). What remains is: current Ship talk is illogical, not a reply-flow etc. Makes *me* look like an idiot. -DePiep (talk) 01:19, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * TBH, I'm not really clear on what you're trying to say. But that said, I don't really see a need to continue this (it's not even my talk page. Or yours). Like I said, I just wanted to offer a suggestion for talk page replies. If you wish to continue a dialogue with Ttm here, go ahead, but I'm done here for now. Have a nice day. - the <em style="font-family:Matisse itc;color:red">WOLF  child  01:58, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * It is easy to understand: I-did-not-edit-Ttm's-comments. -DePiep (talk) 02:11, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

From WP:TPO, this:
 * "Generally, you should not break up another editor's text by interleaving your own replies to individual points; this confuses who said what and obscures the original editor's intent. In your own posts you may wish to use the or  templates to quote others' posts."

—Trappist the monk (talk) 01:13, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Yup, just like my example above. - the <em style="font-family:Matisse itc;color:red">WOLF  child  01:58, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * datetime manipulation? 18:34/15:01?.
 * Woooow, Ttm won't gonna like this comment. - DePiep (talk) 02:15, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * You wrote : "Please stop editing my posts". I did not edit your posts. The wider quote says: "this confuses who said what and obscures the original editor's intent." &mdash; well I did not obscure, confuse, etc. Must say, I've never met you in this attitude. All fine? DePiep (talk) 01:53, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

ship infobox
Hi, could you add the parameter "ordered=" to the infobox for ships and subs? It's something I've already added manually to pages for these ship classes; CVN-78, DDG-51, LCS-1 & LCS-2, so far it appears to be a worthwhile addition. I think it would handy if it was part of the template. Thanks - the <em style="font-family:Matisse itc;color:red">WOLF  child  01:59, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I could. But, I think that you should first raise this issue at WT:SHIPS with a description of how this parameter would be used.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 12:45, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Do you think that's necessary? I just figured it was such a minor, uncontroversial change and obvious improvement, and one already in use in several articles with significant traffic, that it could be made without the need to propose it first. I would've just gone and done it if it wasn't protected (due to vandalism, which this clearly isn't), and I asked you because you showed me how to add it manually, so you're already aware of it. Do you expect opposition to this? - the <em style="font-family:Matisse itc;color:red">WOLF  child  00:14, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * We are supposed to be a collaborative encyclopedia so it just seems proper to confer with other editors when making changes to a tool that they all use. Perhaps there will be no interest; perhaps there will be vehement opposition or support; perhaps the reaction will be "meh".  It doesn't hurt to solicit input from the WP:SHIPS community; might even be helpful — and doing so costs nothing save the time it takes to post a note at WT:SHIPS.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 01:06, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Alrighty... I'll post it. - the <em style="font-family:Matisse itc;color:red">WOLF  child 
 * So, it's posted there now. Can I count on your support? - the <em style="font-family:Matisse itc;color:red">WOLF  child  06:24, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Why do you prefer to have no userpage?
Just curious I suppose, I am not complaining and you're not the only one, but why nothing at all? It could just as easily be a redirect to your talk page (a common solution) or just blank, either would bluelink it... Prince of Thieves (talk) 14:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I may or may not have answered that question at my RfA where the lack of a user page was the subject of some disapprobation.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 15:51, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I will take a look. Prince of Thieves (talk) 16:04, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Citation style for the Clitoris article
Please weigh in on this section. I'm not sure whether we should go with a more conventional style or stick with the current style. If we stick with the current style, there are currently some inconsistent aspects in the article. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 01:55, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Translation template
I noticed that you are removing the translation template in an attempt to fix the broken use of italics in the template. Just to let you know adding |italic=yes will fix it instead of removing the template. This diff illustrates. - Ahunt (talk) 15:46, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
 * You mistake the purpose of the edit that I made. This is the English wikipedia.   has little to no value here, and as an aside, is not a translation template.  The primary purpose of the  templates is to provide proper html markup for browsers and screen readers so that they know how to correctly render or speak the words in the template.  But, since the html of GT-Gyroplanes Kruza has this:
 * there is no reason at all to mark the word 'Cruiser' as English language text with redundant html:
 * Cruiser
 * with or without italic.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 16:26, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Well thanks for your response. I originally used that to explain the aircraft's name, because it sure ain't in English! - Ahunt (talk) 02:19, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Well thanks for your response. I originally used that to explain the aircraft's name, because it sure ain't in English! - Ahunt (talk) 02:19, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Template:Citation Style documentation/cs1
Hello.

I've seen that you've lifted the protection. Thanks. That's a step in the right direction. Therefore, I do not want to respond to your act of cooperation with a rash action.

But I would like you to understand the full ramification of what you did earlier. I want you to know it, because if I ever go to ANI, or God forbid, ArbCom, that's what I will bring up.

Illegitimately deleting content is vandalism. That means content deletion without explanation, with false explanation and with ex post facto explanation. It is customary not to call a registered editor a vandal immediately. Instead, one must give that person a chance to explain himself and come clean. I agree that revision 830074230 arises from dispute. But revisions 830075636 and 830075967 are illegitimate deletions of content contributed in good faith. Headbomb had a lot of chances to come clean. He hasn't. I am going to give him one more; this time more politely.

The problem even goes far deeper. I was one of the participants of the 4th RFA of Headbomb. While in an RFA, nominees are on their best behavior, Headbomb behaved so alarmingly poor that I thought Wikipedia definitely dodged a bullet. I now think I have enough material for ANI. The problem is: I have a principle of not initiating any action that serves exclusively to the detriment of an editor. I need to know first that he was in one of his moods, which I used to see in User:FleetCommand (may the God have mercy on his soul) or not. (Then again, FleetCommand never once disrespected me. It is a mystery to me.)

But as for you: In revision 830078379, you sided with illegitimate removal of content. I think you must do something about it. A justification of your own, a self-review or reverting would be fine. My preference is self-review.

Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 12:15, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
 * [You] sided with illegitimate removal of content. Umm, no.
 * Restoration to the previous status quo so that discussion at an appropriate talk page can resolve differences among the various involved editors does not connote an endorsement of particular content or editor position.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 15:55, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Wow. That was disappointing. So far, he has even refused to correctly identify the subject of discussion. WP:IDHT. I'll wait 24 hours though. After that, I'll assess my options. ANI might be the correct venue. —Codename Lisa (talk) 12:44, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
 * , the two edits you put on the page while a heated discussion was in progress did not have anything close to consensus. A neutral observer could easily view them as stoking a fire, or deliberately trying to antagonize editors. I would recommend that you either drop this particular stick or start a new discussion thread about each of these proposed changes (and then gracefully bow to consensus if it does not go your way). Respectfully, – Jonesey95 (talk) 12:59, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I have taken your advice already. I've started a new discussion thread. —Codename Lisa (talk) 13:10, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Clearly not, because you're still making changes without discussion or consensus to the documentation. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 16:27, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Clearly not, because you're still making changes without discussion or consensus to the documentation. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 16:27, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Linking curiousity
Why don't you make your user page redirect to your talk page or change your sig so that it doesn't link to your user page, e.g. : Trappist the monk (talk)? But I guess the red-linked user page is almost part of your personality now: you're the red-linked mysterious figure, expert in citation templates while still able to remain neutral in a discussion about citation templates.

E to the Pi times i ( talk  |  contribs ) 02:47, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Thanks...
...for taking care of those links affected by the Ohio merge. It completely slipped my mind to check "what links here" after I made the re-direct. Cheers - the <em style="font-family:Matisse itc;color:red">WOLF  child  13:13, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

TrappistMonkStuff
Hi! Is this user somehow related to you?  Vanjagenije  (talk)  16:18, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
 * No, I do not know that user.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 16:42, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

I and Trappist Monk Stuff I am new to Wiki but I have a youtube channel of my time on a Trappist monastery. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TrappistMonkStuff (talk • contribs) 17:41, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Should we allow them to keep that username?  Vanjagenije  (talk)  18:10, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I guess I have to say no. Because TrappistMonkStuff has both 'trappist' and 'monk', I suspect that other users might confuse TrappistMonkStuff as an alternate account of Trappist the monk.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 18:53, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Question
Hi, I'm not sure if you got pinged or not (it doesn't seem to work for me sometimes), but would you mind taking a look at this question I posted at Template talk:USS? Thanks - the <em style="font-family:Matisse itc;color:red">WOLF  child  09:58, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

A Barnstar for you!
And beyond that, I was looking for that solution so I could add it to a particularly long table, and you went ahead and added it, which saves me the effort. The table looks better, has a very useful function added and it works just fine. Thank you so much for all your efforts. Though you won't know it, there will be many others who appreciate your contributions here as well. Cheers - the <em style="font-family:Matisse itc;color:red">WOLF  child  16:14, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

lang|de
I didn't know that the apostrophes were superfluous, thanks. Keith-264 (talk) 14:07, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Are you working through every article I've edited or another criterion? Just curious. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 11:34, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
 * (watching:) Keith, things changed. While the template lang (lang, and see its talk) for a long time was neutral to italics (marked by what you call apostrophs), it now inserts them. That means, they are not needed any longer. However, suddenly things appear italic that shouldn't: names of songs, poems, choirs, churches, you name it. I almost gave up fixing. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:41, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
 * If every article [you've] edited falls within the set of articles defined by this search pattern:
 * then yes, I'm working through every article you've edited.
 * has italic markup detection that is supposed to emit an error message. The error messaging is currently disabled because many of the  templates hard-coded italic markup in their calls to .  Those  templates have been fixed.  I am working through the set of articles defined by that search pattern to preemptively fix  templates before I restore the italic markup error messaging.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 11:45, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see, sort of. I realised from your contributions section that it was a general process, not just putting right an egregious error on my part. I regret it when i put other eds to the trouble off going over my work sorting out mistakes. Regards to Gerda too. Keith-264 (talk) 22:43, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
 * has italic markup detection that is supposed to emit an error message. The error messaging is currently disabled because many of the  templates hard-coded italic markup in their calls to .  Those  templates have been fixed.  I am working through the set of articles defined by that search pattern to preemptively fix  templates before I restore the italic markup error messaging.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 11:45, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see, sort of. I realised from your contributions section that it was a general process, not just putting right an egregious error on my part. I regret it when i put other eds to the trouble off going over my work sorting out mistakes. Regards to Gerda too. Keith-264 (talk) 22:43, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Help needed for bn.wiki
Hi, i'm trying to update Module:Citation/CS1. After importing all code, i'm getting error for date (where we used bengali digit as date). You can see here. Module accept bengali month name but doesn't accept bengali digit, although i translated this. Please help me to fix this. Feel free to edit that module, it's not live. Secondly, i want to localise parameter. so i made this & this edit. Do i need to do anything else for localising parameter? Thank you. --আফতাব (talk) 23:07, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Fixed, I think.
 * The line of code that does the digit translation was in the wrong place. The errors that remain on bn:মডিউল আলাপ:Citation/CS1/Date validation are valid errors.  Access dates (at least here at en.wiki) are  full date (day, month, and year) on which an editor confirmed that the cited source supported the text in our article; date ranges do not specify that single date that we require.  If bn.wiki wishes to do otherwise, that is of course up to you and I can help if you need it.
 * More questions?
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 23:38, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
 * 1. I want to localise parameter. so i made this & this edit. Do i need to do anything else for localising parameter?
 * 2. Mediawiki doesn't have Bengali translation for all language name & some translation are wrong. here i can see two, so fix this missing translation & wrong translation i need to enter same thing twice?
 * --আফতাব (talk) 00:03, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * 1. ৮ এপ্রিল ২০১৮ works, right? So for that parameter, you're done.
 * 2. Languages are a problem. MediaWiki does not support all languages and may not have all languages in all languages.  For example, this works:
 * but this doesn't:
 * If  is important, you will need to add it to the list.  Because of MediaWiki's incomplete and sometimes wrong lists and because these kinds of things really belong in /Configuration, in the enwiki sandbox you will find   and  .  These replace the similar tables in Module:Citation/CS1.  I would recommend that you adopt this so that all or most locale-specific changes are confined to /Configuration.  To use these tables you will need to modify ,  , and   – you should be able to simply copy them from Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox.  At the bottom of /Configuration remember to include these two lines:
 * I'm mostly done for today. I'll address any further questions, if you have any, tomorrow morning.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 00:34, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for answer. Probably this is the last question: Here, line 45, Can i add $1 before "In"? (like this: ) Because in Bengali "something" go first "in" go second (samething with "By"); currently   gives "(in xyz)" but i need "(xyz in)  --আফতাব (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * in, an alias of language will, in the next release of the en.wiki modules, be deprecated. I presume that you mean line 86:
 * If it suits Bengali grammar, I see no reason why you can't write:
 * The 'in' in line 45 is used for an individually authored chapter or section that is part of an edited larger work:
 * (you see In before 'Editor')
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 02:49, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you. --আফতাব (talk) 19:04, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, two questions:
 * 1. Bengali uses  (dari) for fullstop (not latin .). I don't see option here to change it. But here i can see 6   Which one i need to change? all of them?
 * 2. I try to tried to localised   &    parameter. Problem is if i use bengali digit in there, module gives me "Unknown parameter" (see. I mean    doesn't work but   works.) Is it possible to fix? if easy then do it please, otherwise don't.
 * --আফতাব (talk) 23:21, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Something else that should move to /Configuration; I'll work on that over the weekend. Unicode calls that character U+0964 Devanagari Danda.  The brute force way to deal with that is to replace the dots in lines 1510 and 1512 of bn:মডিউল:Citation/CS1.  Of course that may be problematic if you want to allow your editors to import articles with their cs1|2 templates intact from enwiki because U+0964 is not proper punctuation for citations here.  If you intend to support  with this module suite or when any of your cs1 templates use cs2, you will want to change line 1529 to replace the comma separator with the Bengali equivalent.
 * And there's more. Name and name-list separators are defined at lines 1111, 1112, 1114, and 1115; these apply to authors, editors, contributors, interviewers, and translators
 * I have to think about the enumeration issue. Part of the problem is multi-byte 'unicode' Bengali digits; en.wiki uses single-byte ASCII digits.  There is code that looks for missing gaps: template has ... ... but is missing ...; that checking code doesn't know about multi-byte digit encoding.  I'll look into this tomorrow.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 00:09, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for fixing this. --আফতাব (talk) 18:10, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, This is about, currently module gives English date in English & Bengali date in Bengali. It would be great if module automatically convert English date to Bengali. Here i found that there is a option called   which convert English month name to local name. I enabled that. Now,   gives   (see). Is it possible to add support for digit also? so, result for date parameter will be always in Bengali. Thank you. --আফতাব (talk) 20:22, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Is that what you want?
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 00:02, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes. Thank you very much. --আফতাব (talk) 01:24, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, this is only for bn.wiki. I would like to add a maintenance category. If any cite template uses English parametre  and/or   then module will add  . Can you add that please? This will me to maintenance, so every time i don't have to go through all pages to see if any articles uses English parameter or not. --আফতাব (talk) 21:18, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Just those two, title and url, or all English-language parameter names?
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 23:54, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Those two will be enough. --আফতাব (talk) 13:59, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I have to think about the enumeration issue. Part of the problem is multi-byte 'unicode' Bengali digits; en.wiki uses single-byte ASCII digits.  There is code that looks for missing gaps: template has ... ... but is missing ...; that checking code doesn't know about multi-byte digit encoding.  I'll look into this tomorrow.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 00:09, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for fixing this. --আফতাব (talk) 18:10, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, This is about, currently module gives English date in English & Bengali date in Bengali. It would be great if module automatically convert English date to Bengali. Here i found that there is a option called   which convert English month name to local name. I enabled that. Now,   gives   (see). Is it possible to add support for digit also? so, result for date parameter will be always in Bengali. Thank you. --আফতাব (talk) 20:22, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Is that what you want?
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 00:02, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes. Thank you very much. --আফতাব (talk) 01:24, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, this is only for bn.wiki. I would like to add a maintenance category. If any cite template uses English parametre  and/or   then module will add  . Can you add that please? This will me to maintenance, so every time i don't have to go through all pages to see if any articles uses English parameter or not. --আফতাব (talk) 21:18, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Just those two, title and url, or all English-language parameter names?
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 23:54, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Those two will be enough. --আফতাব (talk) 13:59, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Those two will be enough. --আফতাব (talk) 13:59, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for being one of Wikipedia's top medical contributors!

 * please help translate this message into your local language via meta

Thanks again :-) --  Doc James  along with the rest of the team at Wiki Project Med Foundation 02:46, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Awards section of military personnel
Dear Sir/Madam,

please see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:John_W._Troxell#ribbon_rack

There's a user named "Chris Troutman" who simply deletes whole awards and decorations sections here on wikipedia. As you see, instead of discussing, he simply says that anyone who puts the ribbons back will be warned/blocked. He done so already a year ago but was then stopped... I do not know how, though...I have a changing IP. I never log in when on my mobile. So, is there ANYTHING anyone can do to stop that person? There are people putting in hours of work into such sections... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.154.216.91 (talk) 20:45, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

Question
Re: the new row count code you created. Is it possible to apply a single number/ranking to multiple rows? Such as for List of motor yachts by length, it would be for boats with the same length, eg; if boats #'d 9, 10 & 11 are of equal length, is there some way to have a rowspan for those three entries with a single cell showing '9', followed by #12 in the next row, as there wouldn't be a '10' or '11'...?

If this is possible, it would be appreciated. No rush though, I need to go through the whole list and confirm and clean up a lot of the lengths that are listed. Thanks again for your help. - the <em style="font-family:Matisse itc;color:red">WOLF  child  04:45, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * See my (8, 9, 9, 9, 12).
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 13:59, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * OK, I see. It's not the typical "rowspan" markup that merges multiple cells, but adding "_hold" to "row_count" repeats the same number which still works when entries are tied or equal in a given ranking. That's simple enough. Thanks again. - the <em style="font-family:Matisse itc;color:red">WOLF  child  17:12, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

date problem
Hi, on Bnwiki i noticed that CS1 module does not understand YYYY-MM-DD format date with Bengali digit (but CS1 understand other format). Module doesn't show any error message for this but adds a hidden category ( adds hidden category but   doesn't). Please take a look when you have time. Thanks. --আফতাব (talk) 23:55, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * First tell me why you made these edits:
 * to /CS1
 * to /Date validation
 * The purpose of /Configuration is to minimize or eliminate any need for edits in the other modules. I'm pretty sure that these edits are not needed.  If you made these changes to 'fix' something, what was that something that needed fixing?
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 00:23, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * You know, i translate all the parameter. And i'm updating all the doc, templatedate, citoid etc according to bengali translation. Before i made those two edit, if there was an error, module shows that error message with english parameter even if there was no english parameter in the page (example). I wanted to fix that. Anyway i reverted those two edit but still same thing happening (example, enable "Show hidden categories" to see category "উদ্ধৃতি শৈলী রক্ষণাবেক্ষণ: তারিখ বিন্যাস"). --আফতাব (talk) 13:51, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I suspected that might be the reason. Still, I think that your solution is not the correct solution because every time the modules get updated, you, or your successor, will need to re-tweak the modules to 'fix' them again.  I have to think about how best to solve that problem.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 14:59, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Ok. And thanks for fixing date problem. --আফতাব (talk) 15:29, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Errors in Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox
Three articles have similar errors in Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox. Seems very odd for live templates to be using a sandbox module, but you seem to be maintaining it so you may have a better idea how to address it. The articles are High Sheriff of Cumberland, Muhammad Rizieq Shihab and Panther in the Dollhouse.-- JohnBlackburne words<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">deeds 17:15, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I've fixed those instances to use the main template. Galobtter (pingó mió) 17:22, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Rollback
Rollback is to be used for vandalism, As far as I know changing date formats does not constitute vandalism, If you have an issue then use the edit summary and explain your objections like everyone else. – Davey 2010 Talk 18:17, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I rolled back your edit because the article already had an established date format which was documented in the article with a template.  I rolled back your edit because it was contrary to MOS:DATEVAR.  I rolled back your edit because it was contrary to WP:MILFORMAT.
 * I admit to being a bit trigger-happy in my use of the rollback.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 18:28, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Point is you shouldn't of rollbacked good faith edits just because you disagree with them - Using Twinkle would've been far more productive and I would ask infuture that you don't rollback edits such as mine otherwise that right could be revoked. – Davey 2010 Talk 18:55, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Still no excuse, you wrote in your edit summary. I offered no excuse.  I merely explained why I rolled back your edit and then admitted that I was trigger happy.  Yet, here you are, complaining that my explanation and mea culpa are unacceptable.  Why do you believe that it is necessary to further chastise me?
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 21:45, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The "No excuse" was inregards to you being "Trigger happy", Because your replies leave much to be desired, I'm genuinely more offended at being rollbacked on more than being told to fuck off or worse obviously because rollback is primarily is for vandals, Alls I ask is that infuture if you have an issue with my edits that you either revert with twinkle or come to my talkpage, Anyway happy editing, – Davey 2010 Talk 23:00, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The "No excuse" was inregards to you being "Trigger happy", Because your replies leave much to be desired, I'm genuinely more offended at being rollbacked on more than being told to fuck off or worse obviously because rollback is primarily is for vandals, Alls I ask is that infuture if you have an issue with my edits that you either revert with twinkle or come to my talkpage, Anyway happy editing, – Davey 2010 Talk 23:00, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Module:Rail transport colors
Module:Rail transport colors has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the module's entry on the Templates for discussion page. &#123;&#123;3x&#124;p&#125;&#125;ery (talk) 20:28, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Can you please revert your change to MediaWiki:RefToolbar.js?
Hey,

Can you please revert your change to MediaWiki:RefToolbar.js? It's driving me absolutely crazy to suddenly have unnecessary extra trailing spaces within the citation popping up whenever I create a new reference using refToolbar, and as far as I am aware the existing precedent points towards the accepted format generated by refToolbar lacking spaces. I know that Headbomb requested this modification due to their personal opinion that the reference markup wraps and looks better in the editing window when trailing spaces are added, but making such a major change to a gadget used by such a large number of Wikipedia editors that modifies this kind of output styling functionality which has remained the way it is for years solely in response to a request from a single editor without bringing the question up for community review strikes me as overly hasty to say the absolute least. Breaking this functionality out into a user-customizable configuration option for refToolbar (a number of which already exist) would be far more appropriate. As it stands, because you made the change globally as a hard-coded change on a protected page, I'm now going to have to once again try to see if I can disable refToolbar for my account and reimplement it again entirely via my user js in order to revert this horrible change to the generated formatting. The amount of time I'm going to end up wasting on this will vastly exceed the amount of time it would have taken for you to have just done the right thing and made this change a new user-customizable option. Garzfoth (talk) 02:23, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I happen to think that the change is a good change (else I would not have done it). And that puts you and me at stalemate.  Perhaps you should raise the issue at a forum more public than this backwater.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 09:37, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Great, two people think it's a good idea, clearly we should unilaterally implement it in a widget used by a significant percentage of Wikipedia editors without offering them any practical way to revert this, right? Sooo sensible /s. Whatever, I don't really care enough to waste any more of my time on this at this point — I've already reimplemented the previous version of refToolbar/CiteTB on my user JS page, so it's no longer an issue for me, but any other editors who dislike this change yet lack the level of technical know-how/experience required to use and maintain this particular kind of workaround to the issue are still quite fucked... Garzfoth (talk) 13:40, 2 June 2018 (UTC)


 * That's mostly because it's a clear improvement, with real, tangible benefits, and you somehow insist on perceiving this as a ... not one and insist on making things more editor-unfriendly in the edit window? I really don't understand your objections to this. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 13:48, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
 * If you'd go spend some time working on infoboxes, specifically, both citing refs in infoboxes and dealing with fixing errors in infobox params, you should quickly start to understand why having trailing spaces is a major problem. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Garzfoth (talk) 06:27, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Table
Hi Trappist, thank you again for taking some time to help me out with the table. Have a good day.Dk1919 (talk) 11:04, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Infobox captions
Hi. Is there a reason why the  option is missing from the   calls in some ship articles? I added it to a few (e.g. USS Kalamazoo (AOR-6)) when I noticed they looked kind of naked without it, but I thought I'd check with someone involved before going further (and it's starting to look like an AWB job anyway). —&#91;  Alan M 1  (talk) &#93;— 01:14, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Some editors like captions on infoboxen, which is in keeping with MOS:INFOBOX – particularly §Consistency between infoboxes, and some editors don't like captions on infoboxen. So there you have it.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 01:21, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Tevye lives! Maybe I shouldn't risk provoking an edit war so early in my burnout recovery. —&#91;  Alan M 1  (talk) &#93;— 12:38, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

CSS for citation templates
Could you have a way of having those icons display if we suppress external link icons normally? I can only see them if I disable this. Maybe this could be done via a different class, like external-access, or some other way that would let us suppress the normal external link icons, but keep the access ones? Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 00:23, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

ISBNs
FYI. Hyphens in ISBNs do not impact how they link with Book source. See ISBN. That is, ISBN templates or book citation template ISBNs give readers "Magic links" no matter how many or how few hyphens are added. In fact, spaces between numbers work too. Thanks. – S. Rich (talk) 03:53, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, I know all of this. Why would you think that I don't?
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 09:39, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
 * You did a wholesale revert of helpful edits to Atlas Shrugged, including ISBN edits. – S. Rich (talk) 18:33, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Ummm, helpful edits don't leave behind visible that weren't present before the 'helpful' edit.
 * Setting url to the address of a google books information page that doesn't offer preview confounds reader expectation; readers expect that there will be something there to read when title is linked with url. The 23 July 2018 Citation bot release introduced this bug.  The fault was reported 24 July 2018.  It is (presumably) now fixed.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 22:33, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 22:33, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

Automatic table numbering
Thank you for your help. I used it on two tables that I'm maintaining and it works like a charm. Additions and deletions are a lot much easier now that I don't have to renumber..

List of U.S. stadiums by capacity

List of indoor arenas in the United States

Roberto221 (talk) 21:28, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

The function "harvard_core" does not exist
Some script errors appear at Papias of Hierapolis. They are due to use of harvtxtp and updates at Module:Footnotes. I don't know what should be done so I'm hoping you will fix it. Thanks! Johnuniq (talk) 03:39, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Fixed, thank you.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 09:31, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

.cs1-lock_free?
I see you changed  to. Should that be  for correctness/consistency? (Likewise for the others.) Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 15:11, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
 * There was general support at WT:TemplateStyles to use dashes to separate words in class names. --Izno (talk) 15:56, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Use of table.concat to concatenate strings
I noticed that you typically concatenate strings with, for instance in Module:Lang. I've also done that before to reduce memory usage. But I read recently, in a post on the Lua list (reposted here as Lua string concatenation considered not harmful), that the concatenation operator is at least as memory-efficient as  when concatenating a set of strings all at once: for instance,   is no worse than. Putting strings in a table (array) and using  is only more efficient for constructing a string piecemeal, as in. So you could change your practice and use concatenation in some situations. — Eru·tuon 23:26, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't know that I have ever said that I use  for any other reason than as a matter of style.  Given multiple ways of doing something where there no single one of them is demonstrably the 'best', I choose the one that I 'like best'; in this case  .  We aren't counting processor cycles here nor are we really worried about every last byte of memory.
 * Clearly you must think that my use of  is wrong else you would not have started this thread.  It's interesting to me that you do not also take me to task for my habitual use of C's terminal semicolon.  Sigh.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 08:58, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
 * It's true that I don't like the verbose use of a function when an operator will do, but I did think your reason for using  might be memory efficiency. As it turns out I assumed wrongly and posting about this was rude, so I am sorry. And I don't really want to get into a discussion of coding style. — Eru·tuon 21:31, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
 * It's true that I don't like the verbose use of a function when an operator will do, but I did think your reason for using  might be memory efficiency. As it turns out I assumed wrongly and posting about this was rude, so I am sorry. And I don't really want to get into a discussion of coding style. — Eru·tuon 21:31, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

NPS contact
When I contacted NPS about the bad link on the Weekly List, I was in turn contacted by Jeff Joeckel. He might be the person to ask regarding your bad URL. Standard NPS email format: First name(underscore)Last name (at) nps.gov Einbierbitte (talk) 17:26, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * My post at WT:NRHP was not an appeal for the name and contact information of someone at NPS. Rather, it was a suggestion that a member of WP:NRHP who has such a contact should get in touch with their contact to determine why urls returned by  appear to be valid but only link to blank pdf pages (which problem I do not believe to be a fault of the template – though I have been surprised before).  If changes to the template are required, I am available to assist should that be necessary.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 18:18, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I misunderstood. My bad. Carry on. Einbierbitte (talk) 21:32, 26 August 2018 (UTC)