Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Illustration workshop/Archive/Sep 2021

Flags of Pays de la Mée and Pays Pagan

 * Article(s):
 * List of Breton flags


 * Request:
 * Can someone please create SVG files for the flags of Pays de la Mée (shown here) and Pays Pagan (shown here). Thanks. Snow Lion Fenian (talk) 16:07, 31 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Discussion:

Flags of Poher and Pays du Vignoble Nantais

 * Article(s):
 * List of Breton flags


 * Request:
 * Would someone please create SVG files for the flags of both Poher (as seen here) and Pays du Vignoble Nantais (as seen here). Thanks. Snow Lion Fenian (talk) 16:44, 3 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Discussion:

Ustaše Youth symbol

 * Article(s):
 * Ustaše Youth


 * Request:
 * Can somebody vectorize the symbol of the Ustaše Youth seen on this front cover between words Ustaška and mladež? Thanks, OakMapping (talk) 10:27, 23 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Discussion:
 * How's that? – Pbrks (t • c) 02:25, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Looks, great! Thanks a lot. OakMapping (talk) 11:17, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Iglesia ni Cristo seal

 * Article(s):
 * Iglesia ni Cristo


 * Request:
 * Could somebody vectorized the iteration of the church's seal/logo on their website (https://iglesianicristo.net/). The header is supposed to be in svg already but the actual image is raster. This larger image could help.-- Hariboneagle927 (talk) 03:33, 11 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Discussion:

DTM nightclub logo

 * Article(s):
 * DTM (nightclub)


 * Request:
 * I would like an all-black logo version of the temporarily closed nightclub derived from official website (https://www.dtm.fi/). It should be created as separate file, but cannot be transferred to Commons. Hopefully tagged as "PD-ineligible-USonly". The colored logo was deleted on Commons. -- George Ho (talk) 02:10, 13 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Discussion:

Flag of the Breton Vexillological Society
Snow Lion Fenian (talk) 03:15, 11 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Article(s):
 * Any article this already features on.


 * Request:
 * Will someone please redraw the above GIF file of the flag used by the Breton Vexillological Society as SVG. Thanks. Snow Lion Fenian (talk) 17:02, 16 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Discussion:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Breton_Vexillological_Society_Flag.svg ✅ JesseWolfenden (talk) 06:10, 10 October 2021 (UTC) JesseWolfenden (talk) 06:10, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Flag of the Breton Regionalist Union
Snow Lion Fenian (talk) 03:18, 11 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Article(s):
 * Breton Regionalist Union, List of Breton flags.


 * Request:
 * Would someone redraw the above PNG version of the flag of the Breton Regionalist Union as SVG please. Thanks. Snow Lion Fenian (talk) 20:45, 19 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Discussion:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Breton_Regionalist_Union_Flag.svg ✅ JesseWolfenden (talk) 06:38, 10 October 2021 (UTC)  JesseWolfenden (talk) 06:38, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Very nice work on both files, and thanks for your time. Much appreciated. Snow Lion Fenian (talk) 03:18, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Good article and featured article topicon redesign
}}
 * 2=Related icons
 * In truth, the potential scope of this project could be a lot bigger, trying to unify all of the icons used anywhere on Wikipedia. However, recent attempts to do so have failed, and their utility is questionable, given that most icons do not appear in reader-facing areas and thus have a vastly more limited reach. Redesigning these two icons is a more feasible task with clear and significant benefits for readers across tens of thousands of pages.
 * Cheers, &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 05:08, 7 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Discussion:
 * I would recommend posting this at the Commons graphics lab as well, as it is significantly more active over there. Pbrks (talk) 14:50, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the tip. Since this request is specific to en-WP, I'd prefer the main discussion be hosted here, but I'll copy the request there and invite folks over. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 21:38, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Consider color blindness (esp. red-green): In data visualization circles, there is increasing awareness of how graphics should be crafted to allow color blind individuals to distinguish through shading, what normally sighted individuals distinguish directly through color perception. (One can test shading in Photoshop etc by removing saturation.) It's my understanding that red-green color blindness is a common type, though not the only type of color blindness. Some color scales are better than others: see Scientific American. —RCraig09 (talk) 22:53, 17 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Has there actually been any discussion about changing these icons somewhere? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 23:37, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
 * , the direct impetus for this request was a tangential discussion at the Village Pump. I think there have been a few other "we ought to change this" offhand musings over the years that are mostly buried in archives at this point. But largely, as I lay out above, this is the ground floor. If you have thoughts about how to organize the process to ensure visibility/boost participation/etc., those are welcome. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 22:09, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * You may want to start with an RfC (or, I guess, two parallel questions) on changing the icons in general to get a mandate for the change, as well as soliciting opinions on what changes people would like to see so any designers have a firmer grasp of what might be acceptable. Not like the original icons were chosen with a ton of deliberation (from what I can see at the WT:GA archives one editor unilaterally came up with the GA icon) but at this point I think you're going to have to get buy-in. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 00:16, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * , hmm, I'm not quite sure what form that RfC would take. Should it be a yes/no "should these be changed?" question at WP:VPR, or an open-ended "What changes would you want to see?" brainstorming at WP:VPI, or something in between? I don't want to hand over too much of designers' work to general editors, since I trust designers to know best when it comes to designing. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 00:48, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest the former, with an area for further discussion of the latter. First step of making changes is getting people to agree to a change. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 15:21, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * , sounds good. I'm going to put the proposal forward there, and mark this as on hold for now. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 19:51, 24 October 2020 (UTC)


 * This is my passing opinion. There is a ooui icon called "articleCheck" ( ) and this is what I think a "GA" icon should look similar to. Basically a sheet (representing a page) with a check on it. And in a green color instead of black. For the FA icon, a simple star/medal design on a sheet with an appropriate color would make sense to keep the two icons inline with each other. SInce I believe that most users could understand a star is more important than a check icon. Basic icons such as these are the only way to keep them readable when used as topicons. Terasail &#91;✉&#93; 17:00, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Update: Mandate acquired
The formal Village Pump proposal has been archived, and per here, it successfully acquired a mandate for the icons to be redesigned, so I am removing the "on hold" box around this section. I'll leave it up to others to decide how precisely to proceed from here; I hope that someone steps up to take the lead on shepherding the process from here forward, since I'm not sure I can do it myself. This thread can be archived once (and only once) we've moved to the next stage. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 22:09, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
 * As a note, there is also a proposal about it.Ahmetlii (talk) 10:33, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * That's a much more ambitious but still underdeveloped proposal that's been sitting for a while; in my view, it would need a lot of work to become comprehensive enough to become useful, and I don't see that amount of work forthcoming or really worth the effort. I think we should focus on this one, much more feasible task that we have agreed to do, rather than dreaming about bringing all of Wikipedia in line with a universal standard that, realistically, is not likely to happen any time soon. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 23:53, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
 * The icons should be changed to something the average reader is familiar with. The current icons are nice, but they're nice to Wikipedians. The average reader probably has no idea what this means. We should aim to use images which readers will understand. For example: silver star, gold star. A tick / double tick. Or something along those lines. It should be obvious to a reader what it symbolises. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 02:55, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Proposal 1
I've went ahead and made some icon ideas and where I think they would be appropriate. Let me know your thoughts. Pbrks (talk) 14:44, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , there are some nice icons in that set; thanks for putting it together! I think the next step would be arranging a large-scale discussion for those and any other proposals. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 16:53, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Tol's icons


I don't know if people still want to implement this, but I was working on some icons for personal use that render better at smaller sizes and recalled the village pump proposal to do something similar. I'm a terrible graphic designer, but I figured I'd post them here in case anybody is interested. I based them on Wikimedia's OOUI icons; I converted the s in the icons to more human-readable SVG elements and colored them based on Wikimedia Design's color palette. I used a star for the featured icon because it is similar to the existing one, but used a check for the good icon so distinguish it from a support !vote icon. I plan to make more for A/B/C classes. My main problem is that I am unsure how to best represent former, former candidate, candidate, and reassessment icons. I'm currently thinking a cross for former, a question mark for candidate, and both combined in some way for former candidate. I have no good idea for reassessment — magnifying glass, maybe? I'd appreciate some other opinions on how these look and what to do. Thanks for your time! Tol (talk &#124; contribs) @ 00:31, 3 September 2021 (UTC)


 * All of the icons so far in small icon form:     . I put something in the "start" icon instead of making it blank like the existing symbol (Symbol start class.svg). As for "stub", I am unsure if I should model it off the existing symbol (Symbol stub class.svg) and do a partial circle, or use something else like OOjs UI icon stripeSummary-ltr.svg (perhaps too close to the list icon?).  Tol  (talk &#124; contribs) @ 17:41, 3 September 2021 (UTC)


 * These are nice, although I'm not sold on a tick for GA. Question mark works well for candidates (presumably in the gold or green circles), and I don't see why reassessment couldn't use the same icon given it's an assessment of some sort in both cases. I'm not sure a former candidate icon is that important in the grand scheme of things. I would prefer stubs use a partial circle to lines, just so all article rating have a similar aesthetic which distinguishes them from lists. CMD (talk) 15:57, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
 * @Chipmunkdavis: Thanks for the feedback. For the GA icon, I was trying to avoid a star like the FA icon (which would have accessibility problems) and a plus sign (some people thought having the same icon for support votes and good articles is confusing). I haven't been able to get the question mark to look good, but I think I'm close to getting it (I'll probably upload an FA candidate icon soon). I'll do the partial circle for stub. Thank you again! Tol  (talk &#124; contribs) @ 18:48, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Harry S. Truman campaign button

 * Article(s):
 * Harry S. Truman 1948 presidential campaign


 * Request:
 * Requesting to remove the background from this image, without losing the picture size (pixels), and upload it on Commons as a new version of this file "File:Truman-Barkley 1948 Campaign Button (color, background removed).png". The current image with background removed is of a low quality. The campaign button is freely licenced under PD-US-no-notice. Thanks! Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 05:53, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

This should be posted to the Photography workshop. Auguel (talk) 15:07, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Discussion:
 * @ Done. Thanks! Should this be archived from here?  Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 15:14, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

— RCraig09 (talk) 05:08, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Request for a pinout diagram for the NatSemi PACE and INS8900 CPUs

 * Article(s):
 * National Semiconductor PACE

I'd like to request two very similar diagrams, which have the pinouts of the NatSemi PACE and INS8900 processors. The latter is an updated version of the former, so they are very similar.
 * Request:

A good guide for the construction of the diagram is the similar one for the Intel 8086, found. The two chips I am writing about are also 40-pin designs and thus differ from this diagram only in the labelling of the pins.

A non-free version of the image can be found in Osborne's super book on 16-bit designs on page 1.10, hopefully, this link will take you directly to that page.

Note that the version in the diagram on page 1.10 is the 8900. The PACE differs only slightly, and there is a list of differences at the top of the page just above the diagram. Note that the diagram is somewhat confusingly labeled; in the case where the name of the pin changed between the two versions, the diagram shows both names - see pin 20 for instance, which is Vss on one and GND on the other. This isn't universal, they didn't follow the same rule on pin 29!

I only need the pinout itself, not the explanatory text at the top or bottom.

Thanks! Maury Markowitz (talk) 14:32, 19 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Discussion:
 * Ah, history! Let me know if you have preferred file names for each. I'll take a stab at it. — RCraig09 (talk) 17:02, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, I'd say "National_Semiconductor_PACE_pinout" and "National_Semiconductor_INS8900_pinout" would likely do the trick. Thanks! Maury Markowitz (talk) 18:33, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
 * — I've uploaded File:National Semiconductor INS8900 CPU pinout.svg. I retained the arrow designators from the Osborne manual since the arrows contain more information than the snazzier 8086 diagram you mentioned above. Background is transparent. I added a slight gray tone to the CPU body to distinguish it from the probably-white backgrounds that most viewers will see. I plan to upload the PACE diagram in a short while. Let me know if changes are needed. — RCraig09 (talk) 21:15, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
 * —Now, File:National Semiconductor PACE CPU pinout.svg is also uploaded. Where there was inconsistency, I relied on Osborne's distinguishing list rather than the larger diagram. — RCraig09 (talk) 21:33, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Most excellent sir! Only one minor one... can you subscript the "GG" and so forth on the power pins? In any event, send them up to the commons and they'll go in... well I guess I have to write the section on the 8900 first... Maury Markowitz (talk) 00:03, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Subscripts have been added, and I manually forced a smaller font size of the subscripted text. (You may have to refresh your browser while by-passing the browser cache to see the new Versions 2.) You may be aware, SVG rendering of fonts is far from standardized and some browsers may not render them the same as other browsers. As commercials often warn, "Your results may differ." I think that within Wikimedia/Wikipedia, the new files render acceptably. If not, you can revert to Version 1. I'll add the  template, but if any further changes are needed, let me know. We like happy customers! — RCraig09 (talk) 05:06, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

— RCraig09 (talk) 05:06, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

4 wheeled vehicle powered by a motor in each wheel hub

 * 1) https://spectrum.ieee.org/media-library/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy8yNTU4NjAyNy9vcmlnaW4uanBnIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTY0NTUwMTYyMX0.SA_pc2wWkOquFPw8mhnotNrBXzYtkCL7AsTs3QSbFbg/image.jpg
 * 2) https://www.ijareeie.com/upload/2016/ncdi3c/20_Individual.pdf (Fig. 2 schematic)


 * Article(s):
 * Individual wheel drive Wheel hub motor Electric car Electric vehicle


 * Request:
 * I think a diagram of a car with 4 wheels each powered by a wheel hub motor would be useful. Because otherwise some people will likely get confused about whether they have an axle or not. Would it be possible to make a simplified (maybe schematic) version of the image above? There are also some pics at https://www.lordstownmotors.com/pages/tech which do seem to have an axle so you could base it on those if easier. Seems likely more of these vehicles will be on the market soon. -- Chidgk1 (talk) 18:23, 20 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Discussion:
 * I've boldly added a link to ijareeie.com which has a schematic in Fig. 2. I can't say "I'll do" at this time but thought this would help clarify the concept to non-engineers. — RCraig09 (talk) 19:05, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Ah very useful. I am not an engineer myself so we may need to get some expert advice as I don't know whether gears are common or not - if not they could be omitted for clarity. Perhaps it would be best to have 2 schematics - one with the motors on the chassis like the one you just added. And one with the motors in the wheels. If I understand right both types will be in production shortly if they are not already. So having 2 schematics would make the difference clear. As they might be in the same article perhaps the style should be like the existing electric car diagram Electric car diagram.svg? Chidgk1 (talk) 19:31, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

...for the basic block diagram (only) inspired by ijareeie.com. A block diagram will be useful in Individual wheel drive and possibly Electric car and Electric vehicle if there are appropriate sections for it. Regrettably my graphic skills aren't up to producing a perspective drawing, but for communicating the basic concept such skills aren't necessary. —— RCraig09 (talk) 15:55, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Block diagram is uploaded. Let me know if changes are needed. At present, I can't see an additional advantage in showing an in-wheel embodiment; the important concept is the same. —— RCraig09 (talk) 18:26, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Not sure why I did not see ping. Afraid I am going to agree with you and disagree with you and change my mind, so probably means a lot more work sorry. Firstly please remove existing motors and just write "motor" instead of "gears" (colour could be copperish). On the one hand I agree with you that block diagrams ought to be sufficient - but on the other hand I think the distinction between chassis mounted and in-wheel is important (because of the ongoing unsprung weight debate and because apparently both types will be sold) - is it actually possible to show in-wheel motors in a similar block diagram or impossible because 2D? Could you also do block diagrams for "All wheel drive" (as shown in the existing perspective diag), "Front wheel drive" (just one motor at mid-front) and "Rear wheel drive"(just one motor at mid-rear)? Just showing motors, wheels and axles. That way all 5 (or 4 if in-wheel impossible) could be put in the same article for easy comparison. Not sure best way to show which end of car is front - maybe an arrow to show direction of motion? Or no need as it will be obvious? Chidgk1 (talk) 18:58, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
 * - I don't have sophisticated 3-D graphic skills or software, so as a practical matter I'm limited to relatively simple and less beautiful block diagrams. I have an electronics background, not mechanical, and don't understand many of the details you describe. I'm not sure what an in-wheel block diagram should look like; in any event it's only one embodiment of the broad concept of Individual wheel drive, which is now adequately represented.
 * - Probably, you should start a separate section asking graphists for specific diagrams for each different embodiment; the requests are too convoluted to pursue in this single section. You should provide a specific source diagram for each request—this page is read by graphists, not necessarily mechanical engineers.
 * - Incidentally, I used a common symbol for a motor in the existing drawing. —— RCraig09 (talk) 19:29, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes my ideas were not clear when I started this request. Your work has helped me clarify as "simple" is what I need here not necessarily "beautiful". As this request has got complicated and I am now asking for more I hereby close this request and will raise a new request using your very useful block diagram as a starting point. Thanks Chidgk1 (talk) 05:59, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Block diagrams of electric car motor layouts

 * Article(s):
 * Individual wheel drive Wheel hub motor Electric car Electric vehicle


 * Request:
 * Hoping for five block diagrams with easy to translate text -

1) Individual wheel drive (chassis mounted) - amend the above block diagram as follows - amend heading (bracketed text maybe smaller maybe underneath big text) remove existing motor symbols, replace "Gears" text with "Motor", change green to light coppery colour, add highish middle text "Battery"

2) Individual wheel drive (in-wheel motor) - amend 1) as follows - amend heading - replace motors with lines pointing to wheels from mid-point text "In-wheel motors"

3) All wheel drive - amend 1) as follows - amend heading - amend motors to one motor (twice as wide) midpoint between each pair of left-right wheels connected to LR wheels by medium thickness line representing axles 4) Front wheel drive - amend 3) as follows - amend heading - remove rear motor and axles - add arrow in front of car to show direction of travel

5) Rear wheel drive - amend 3) as follows - amend heading - remove front motor and axles - add arrow in front of car to show direction of travel Chidgk1 (talk) 06:35, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Discussion: