Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2009 September 25

= September 25 =

Gray contributions
What does it mean when someone's contributions are gray and struck through? I came across this user's contributions and have never seen this before and I'm just wondering what it means. I can't seem to find any explanation for this on any of Wikipedia's help pages. Deli nk (talk) 00:18, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * It mean's they've been oversighted. It's one step beyond deletion, it's usually only used for privacy violations. -- Vary &#124; (Talk) 00:25, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks for the quick answer. Deli nk (talk) 00:28, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Possible illegal photograph
I have recently visited the Yushukan museum located on the grounds of the Yakusuni Shrine in Tokyo. The museum specifically disallows any photographs to be taken in the portion of the museum where the purchase of a ticket is required. The Kaiten submarine is located in that paid portion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KaitenType1.JPG

Thus, if the above linked photograph is a personal photo as the uploader noted, then it is possibly in violation of the museum's policies, and possibly be subject for removal from Wikipedia?


 * The image is on Wikimedia Commons, so I suggest you bring up your concern there (Commons and the English Wikipedia are separate projects). You could raise the issue and start discussion at commons:Commons:Deletion_requests.  Personally, I have no idea where copyright law and museum policies meet, if indeed they do.  ∙  AJCham  (talk)  00:40, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you!


 * Museum policy and copyright law are completely different matters. Even if the photo was taken in breach of "policy" but is not otherwise a copyright violation, then there is nothing "illegal" about it and IMHO it is perfectly acceptable for Commons if the photographer provides an appropriate release. – ukexpat (talk) 14:23, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

besides, you can't just jump to the conclusion that the photographer violated that museum policy. many museums don't like everyone taking pictures for different reasons, but may give permission to certain people, or even if it's a quiet day, they may not care.--camr nag 18:17, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi, even if the photo does not violate copyright law, there are issues regarding image rights, trumped up 'security' issues etc. Any private companies that would wish to use an image taken of/in a private or corporate property (perhaps for marketing purposes etc.) often need to have a location disclosure agreement signed by somebody in suitably senior position in the body that owns said property. I am not sure what the position of Wikipedia would be in relation to being the host for the 'publication' of this image. Although, having said that, it is highly possible that the photo would have originated from the marketing dept. of the museum Darigan (talk) 13:36, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Removing page from categories
How do I make a page not be included in any categories that are added from a template? $© @®  ©Ξ  00:33, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * On the template page, wrap the categories in . Whatever is in those tags will only appear on the template page, not when it's transcluded. (Conversely, if you want something to only appear when the template is transcluded, use .) Xenon54 / talk / 01:11, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe Scarce is working on a page which transcludes templates that normally add categories, but doesn't want the categories added to that particular page, for example a userspace draft. There is no feature to do that without editing the templates to give a parameter telling the template whether to omit the category. There is a feature request with different suggestions at 835. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:34, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

promoting?
Cheerwine has a list of their advertising slogans. Is this appropriate for Wikipedia? Mjpresson (talk) 02:19, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Not really, as it's unsourced and really just indiscriminate info. I've removed it. Thanks for the heads up! TN X Man  02:47, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Clay Walker song
I am trying to find the music cd to the Clay Walker song I'd Love To Be Your Last, for a wedding. I have the c/d Fall, but I need just the music so someone can sing it. Can you help me?
 * Have you tried the Miscellaneous section of Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in answering knowledge questions there; this help desk is only for questions about using Wikipedia. For your convenience, here is the link to post a question there: click here. I hope this helps.  TN X Man  02:48, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Signbot
Is signbot down?Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 03:11, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Yup. Hasn't yet caught up to the latest mw updates. See User:SineBot. --AndrewHowse (talk) 03:19, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * (e/c) I'm not sure what's the status now but as of a few days ago, following the software update, all bots were broken.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:21, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Starnge WIkimedia mention on non Wikimedia websites
Most of the day yesterday, whenever I wanted to go to Twitter and pushed my hotkey on Firefox for the website, I got this webscreen

thumb|200px

Even by typing the webaddress, I got this all but once yesterday (when it actually went to the twitter screen). 30 minutes ago, I wanted to check out the Jay Leno show, as he was interviewing the Greatest American alive today. From both NBC.com and the link to the official site from WIkipedia, I got this screen:

thumb|200px

Is there some sort of Wikimedia cookie or virus or something doing this? It appears to be contained to me, but in case others get this problem, I wanted to give the first mention of this. Any idea what's up? (Don't seem to have that problem with IE).-- King Bedford I Seek his grace  06:17, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * This is generated by http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_missing_site_template and should only be seen at domains owned by Wikimedia. Try clearing your entire cache in Firefox. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:23, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

On front page wiki news section NO info on G-20 in Pittsburgh?
Have you seen the tarmac at Pittsburgh International Airport, US Air Force One, Russian, Chinese, Australian, Italian, French, Japanese, Brazilian heck the king of Ethopia took his air force one to PIT too. NBC Nightly news is broadcasting from Pittsburgh last night and tonight, Jon Stewart has a crew there with the Daily Show, CBS ABC CNN MSNBC FNC FBC BBC CBC NYT WP AP UPI. . . need I provide more (trust me the links are red hot all over). Please add this to the news before the summit is over on Friday night. Thank you for your quick response in advance. Hholt01 (talk) 06:41, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * What? Are you suggestion something for the "in the news" section of the main page? If so, go to In the news/Candidates‎. ≈ Chamal talk ¤ 06:44, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the link, here is one for the news crew from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue:  Hholt01 (talk) 06:57, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Fixing across languages
Working on the Red Panda article, I have found that the current IUCN Red List status is listed incorrectly in many languages (all except English that I have checked so far). For parallel articles like this, is there some way to make systemic changes or are we stuck with going in and editing each language separately? I can confidently fix this in some languages, but not in others. Obviously I can also go in and comment in the Notes page on other languages. However, this seems like a lot of maintanance for something that changes internationally all at the same time.
 * I've never actually tried this but Local Embassy has a list of people willing to help coordinate between different languages. I haven't heard of any way to automate this though.--RDBury (talk) 17:15, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Template:Userspace draft
Hi, I'm trying to have Template:Userspace draft show the date and time of creation and last edit, but I can't get the subst:ing to work. Ideally we'd be able to show the date/time the user will be able to move the page to mainspace, but creation date + guidance will do. Rd232 talk 10:34, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure how you want it to work but note that substitution only happens if  is directly in the edit box when the page is saved. You cannot cause substitution by transcluding a page containing subst. You could make another template with documentation saying it must be subst'ed. That template could then subst the time and transclude Template:Userspace draft. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:32, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * If you want the creation time to be saved when the page is made via the article wizard then the source of Template:Article wizard/userpageskeleton is placed directly in the edit box by using  with preload=Template:Article wizard/userpageskeleton in Article wizard 2.0/subpage. So you could subst the time in Template:Article wizard/userpageskeleton. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:41, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe you it would help if you take a look at AFC submission, which I think works in the way you mention. ≈ Chamal talk ¤ 11:52, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

my page dissapeared
Hi, I wrote a page a few months ago on Rose Reisman. A few editors had edited it and thought it was fine. I guess it stayed on the site for a while and reached the top ranking in search and then all of a sudden it dissapeared. i can't imagine it would have been subject to speedy deletion, otherwise wouldnt it have been deleted much earlier? I now can't even find any trace of this article. please help. thanks --Artoflivingwell (talk) 15:41, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * It was speedily deleted as a copyvio of this page on September 5. NB, the "speedy" part of "speedy delete" refers to the process and not the time since creation. – ukexpat (talk) 15:44, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * thanks, should i have referenced it then? and can i find the original article somewhere, so i can fix and repost? --Artoflivingwell (talk) 16:20, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * You can't fix a coyvio just by adding references. You will have to rewrite the whole thing in your own words. I suggest that you start off by creating it in a user subpage so you can edit it without risk of deletion (unless it is a copyvio or promotional in which case it is open to speedy deletion). I have created a subpage for you at User:Artoflivingwell/Rose Reisman. – ukexpat (talk) 16:50, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Even with a reference, you can't just paste into Wikipedia someone else's work (unless it's in the public domain or acceptably licensed for free use). In addition, it appears that the ultimate source of the copied material is Ms. Reisman herself (or her publicist), since it also appears on her Facebook page and here; so I doubt that it could be considered a secondary source. Most admins will refuse to userfy a copyvio article, I think, but since an acceptable article will have to be rewritten from scratch on the basis of reliable secondary sources, you're not losing much. Deor (talk) 16:58, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

What does the manual of style say regarding alts on lists
The question is more specific. On List of numbered roads in Kawartha Lakes, Ontario, there are lists with the road shields denoting each road. Would every road shield require alt text under the manual of style, or is this a case where it can be skipped over? -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  17:00, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Since alt text is for readers that cannot sea the image on their screens, I believe it would be necessary to provide it. Otherwise, they wouldn't know what is there, would they? If you were at WP:FLC, you will be asked to provide alt text. ≈ Chamal talk ¤ 17:03, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The guideline is Alternative text for images. The images do have content not in the list, so you need alt text. You could expand the content to include that content, then the images could be considered icons the alt text delinked. Examples: 7B and Kawartha Lakes 3 are not noted in the list text. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 17:10, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Theoretically though, I could just make the alt texts for every shield read "A city road sign for Kawartha Lakes Road xx" or "A provincial highway sign for Highway xx" and that would be fine, correct? Or would more details be necessary (the prose mentions the shapes and general appearance of the road signs)? -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  17:17, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * You would need a complete description: shield-shaped with a crown, etc.
 * I know I've read not to over duplicate things, so would I need all these extra items describing the shape on every single picture the entire way down the list (49 times)? -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  23:17, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You need to make sure you are not degrading the web usability in the attempt to improve the article. You might want to consider removing the images and instead using the actual numbers (List of numbered roads in Ottawa is an example). You are using the images in a purely decorative fashion which would negate the use of alt text if that column listed actual numbers. You might want to consider not using those images at all but instead using a higher quality shot of a road sign.10:09, 27 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I hope to upgrade the others around Ontario to match Kawartha Lakes / York Region. The images provide a much better eye catcher for anyone that isn't still using a commodore64 to access the net. It is just personal opinion, but I cannot stand the look of the tables that merely use numbers. Perhaps the alt for the images could be simply the number, as that is the only important part of the image? -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  00:57, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Re:File:Edo Panorama old Tokyo color photochrom.jpg
Where in Edo/Tokyo was the photographer taking the following picture from? I'd like to look it up on a map. &mdash; Rickyrab | Talk 17:18, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Apparently, some place called Atagoyama. I'll look it up. &mdash;  Rickyrab | Talk 17:23, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Possibly Atago Shrine (Tokyo) -- "The shrine is located on Atago Hill, which is 26 meters above sea level. In old times, the shrine had an excellent view of Tokyo..."--RDBury (talk) 08:27, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Section lines crossing infoboxes or images
is there a way to prevent section lines from crossing infoboxes or images? i mean, what happens in this article.--camr nag 17:18, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Looks fine to me - the section lines end before the ibox and image elements. – ukexpat (talk) 17:47, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

now you say it, i accessed the article using firefox. yep, no line. it's just with ie.--camr nag 18:11, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Was just going as ask about your browser. What version? ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 18:12, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

the last one, which is weird. ie8. to be specific, v.8.0.6001.18813. but i bet every version does the same.--camr nag 18:28, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * IE8 and Wikipedia don't play well together in a number of areas. – ukexpat (talk) 18:38, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Correct template to use in deletion notification
At Guide to deletion, it suggests Place a notification on significant pages that link to your nomination, to enable those with related knowledge to participate in the debate.. It doesn't really suggest if there is a template to do this, or if you should just put a little warning at the top of your own design. Does anyone know? (Response here is fine :) Luminifer (talk) 18:15, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Are we talking about WP:CSD, WP:PROD or WP:AFD? Each has its own template that goes on the article page and the notice that is then displayed should give you the template code for the notice to put on the creator's talk page. If you use an automated tool like Twinkle for deletion tagging it adds those templates for you automagically. – ukexpat (talk) 18:37, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I was able to find the notice for the creator's talk page - what I wanted was the notice to put on significant pages that link to [the] nomination... It's an AFD, FYI. Luminifer (talk) 18:58, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh OK in that case take a look at AFD, there are some templates listed at the end of that section for notifying people. To be honest I don't think anyone bothers with notifications on other significant pages - I have never seen such a notice. – ukexpat (talk) 19:21, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * You can also notify relevant WikiProjects by using the templates listed at WP:DELSORT, which should attract "those with related knowledge". A list of active delsort pages can be found at WP:DS/C. Deor (talk) 19:34, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Style of titles in articles
Why are the titles of sections in longer Wikipedia articles numbered in the contents lists, but not in the main texts of the articles?

For example, in this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden

the section "Modern history" is numbered 2.4 in the contents list, but the title has no number in the text below.

This seems to be illogical and to make navigation more difficult. Why is it arranged in that way?

Thanx in advance,

Erland Gadde


 * I'm not sure why this is, but you can set Special:Preferences → Appearance → Auto-number headings. ---—  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 22:48, 25 September 2009 (UTC)