Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation/Archive 54

Need more eyes please
Can some of you experts please have a look at National bank (disambiguation) and see if you think it's okay the way it is? If you look at the history, it's been through many iterations recently with Boubloub making changes that kept converting it into an article or list, and then me trying to revert the worst to bring it in line with DAB MOS. Clearly there are a LOT of banks with the term in its title, so wondering if they should all be there, or is there a better solution? Laterthanyouthink (talk) 05:39, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
 * For a start, there's currently a WP:MALPLACED problem. Narky Blert (talk) 22:19, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Merger discussion for Pag
An article that you have been involved in editing&mdash;Pag&mdash;has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 16:25, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

WT:WikiProject Disambiguation/Archive 53 (contd.)
has kindly given a 3-month holiday; see diff. If you come across new instances of this nuisance, feel free to post on my TP; and if there's enough of a pattern I'll assemble another depthcharge. Narky Blert (talk) 21:54, 22 March 2024 (UTC)


 * That's welcome news. If they return, one option is to request an edit filter to prevent unconfirmed editors from replacing "Foo (qualifier)|Foo" by "Foo" in links from "List of Hindi films of yyyy", or perhaps with slightly broader scope.  Most of their contributions include differences following that pattern, their  including several changes such as replacing Footpath (1953 film)|Footpath by the less relevant Footpath. Certes (talk) 00:06, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
 * That's an excellent idea. I can envisage a filter which could be precise and straightforward. If I collect a couple of new throwaway IPs, I'll file a request. Narky Blert (talk) 14:28, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
 * This page shows IP edits to Indian films by year within the last 30 days. Most are good-faith improvements, but most edits with significant negative size changes e.g. (–123) are likely to be of interest.  The damage was extensive, but everything seems to have been reverted.  I suspect that an enthusiastic editor has their own "master copy" of each page offline.  From time to time they make a minor improvement to one and upload it to Wikipedia, overwriting everyone else's edits since their last upload. Certes (talk) 22:34, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
 * My test would be for Hindi films of xxxx/IP/negative size/links to DAB and/or name pages. A Mk 1 eyeball scan of your list suggests that would catch everything with no false positives (and everything like that had already been reverted). I'm not so sure about working off-wiki; I've earlier seen a couple of instances where they returned immediately after a big edit to introduce an error they'd overlooked. Narky Blert (talk) 08:00, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
 * A couple of edits today fit the pattern but appear to be good-faith and plausibly correct:, Certes (talk) 22:51, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Doesn't look like them. This IP edits elsewhere too, and note the ES in your first diff. Narky Blert (talk) 12:03, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
 * It's almost certainly a different person, a constructive editor, but might trigger a hypothetical edit filter if we're not careful. Certes (talk) 14:35, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Dabs for creation
Editors who watch this page may be interested in Village pump (idea lab). Certes (talk) 08:11, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Cydonia
needs moving to Cydonia (disambiguation) by someone with the right access. The region of Mars is now the clear and should hatnote to the dab page. The ancient Greek city and genus should be handled more prominently as the next two most likely things readers would be looking for but that's less of an issue. — Llywelyn II   05:08, 5 April 2024 (UTC)


 * @LlywelynII: You can make technical move requests at WP:RMTR, if you believe it's uncontroversial. Otherwise, start a regular WP:RM.  Incidentally, it seems premature to have reorganized the dab page before any such moves. Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 06:33, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
 * The primary topics are the primary topics, regardless of where the page is (mis)parked. Cf..


 * is just a clearinghouse for the requests. If any of the admins able to do the work there are keeping an eye on dabs at all, they'd notice this here and either handle it or point out any issue. Random admins there might not be as clear on dab policy minutiae that might impact this. (Ditto nonadmins watching this page who might have an opinion on the rearrangement.) — Llywelyn II   06:34, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
 * @LlywelynII I agree that WP:RM is the way to request this move, but I don't agree that Mars is clearly the PT. The statistics from Wikinav appear to show that when people land on the disambiguation page Cydonia they are more likely to move to Kydonia than to Cydonia (Mars), and there is certainly not an overwhelming majority looking for the Mars location. Pam  D  21:57, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Clearly is per Google but if our stats are different for our readers, then sure. I'll just move the pair to the top of the page and leave it where it is. Stuff like this is why I wasn't looking for a procedural rubber stamp. — Llywelyn II   00:26, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

RDAB speedy criteria
See Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion for a proposal to make RDAB errors a speedy criteria.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 19:10, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Mike Hall
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Mike Hall that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. UtherSRG (talk) 10:35, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Move Kritika (disambiguation) to Kritika
There is a discussion here about whether to move Kritika (disambiguation) to Kritika. --Jax 0677 (talk) 22:32, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Program
Are you still operating the program, new students 2600:1004:B265:3A2:C015:335A:4A53:9CE (talk) 18:53, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * There is no specific program for disambiguation, but you may be interested in Education program. Certes (talk) 19:52, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Is a surname a primary topic if it has a qualifier?
?I have been creating some name pages carved out of DAB pages on and off for some time, and it suddenly occurred to me that perhaps the name should be a primary topic in this case Lerner - only I have created it with a disambiguator, as it is primarily a surname from which the other topics arise... Which rule applies here Laterthanyouthink (talk) 07:50, 28 April 2024 (UTC)


 * What matters is whether there is a primary topic for the string "Lerner", i.e. are people using that string primarily looking for any one thing? My first impression is no - googling for "Lerner" -Wikipedia the first three pages of results are about 50/50 people with the surname (Ben Lerner most commonly, but far from exclusively) and other uses. To me this suggests that the disambiguation being primary is best.
 * There is no general rule though as what the primary topic is can only be determined based at the level of the individual topic. Thryduulf (talk) 10:49, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah, is a technically correct application of WP:NAMELIST, but the problem is that the said guideline isn't necessarily well thought out. Its application happens to force the concept of strict separation of disambiguation and set indices - which we as a community expressed a lot of ambivalence about in a recent RFC at Wikipedia talk:Content assessment/Archive 9, as navigation outcomes for readers aren't necessarily improved by doing that.
 * The practical result of these changes is that we might now have ended up promoting a bunch of topics that happen to be called that way but are less well associated with the term by the average reader - compared to the surname.
 * One way to try to measure these things is to compare clickstreams from before and after the change. I have the following clickstream archives downloaded so here goes:
 * clickstream-enwiki-2020-11.tsv:
 * Lerner      Lerner_Enterprises      link    14
 * total: 14 to 1 identified destinations
 * clickstream-enwiki-2022-05.tsv:
 * Lerner      Lerner_Enterprises      link    14
 * total: 14 to 1 identified destinations
 * clickstream-enwiki-2023-08.tsv:
 * total: to 0 identified destinations
 * clickstream-enwiki-2023-09.tsv:
 * Lerner      Al_Lerner       link    13
 * total: 13 to 1 identified destinations
 * clickstream-enwiki-2023-10.tsv:
 * Lerner      Aaron_B._Lerner link    10
 * Lerner      Abba_P._Lerner  link    12
 * total: 22 to 2 identified destinations
 * clickstream-enwiki-2023-11.tsv:
 * Lerner      Al_Lerner       link    10
 * Lerner      Alan_Jay_Lerner link    10
 * Lerner      Lerner_Enterprises      link    12
 * total: 32 to 3 identified destinations
 * clickstream-enwiki-2023-12.tsv:
 * Lerner      Michael_Lerner  link    11
 * Lerner      Lerner_Enterprises      link    11
 * total: 22 to 2 identified destinations
 * clickstream-enwiki-2024-01.tsv:
 * Lerner      Lerner_Enterprises      link    11
 * total: 11 to 1 identified destinations
 * clickstream-enwiki-2024-02.tsv:
 * Lerner      Theodor_Lerner  link    16
 * Lerner      Lerner_Enterprises      link    16
 * total: 32 to 2 identified destinations
 * clickstream-enwiki-2024-03.tsv:
 * Lerner      Abba_P._Lerner  link    10
 * Lerner      Al_Lerner       link    10
 * total: 20 to 2 identified destinations
 * Generally, it's hard to tell much because all of these numbers are close to the anonymization threshold (<10 per source-destination pair).
 * So the Enterprises are a topic of interest from before which now gets more visibility, which could be good. But the other three companies might be getting promoted, while these people are getting demoted, and this could be bad.
 * At the same time, we clearly see that alphabetical sorting has had an effect on navigation outcomes. It's not at all clear whether that was good or bad.
 * --Joy (talk) 12:53, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
 * @Joy, Here and elsewhere you present copious amounts of data, but to be honest, it is presented in a way that is completely opaque to me as to what it signifies. older ≠ wiser 13:13, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
 * @Bkonrad apologies, I often forget to link the introductory materials and explain well.
 * The description of this data format would be at meta:Research:Wikipedia clickstream. Long story short, the system to analyze the records where the readers visited allows us to see how many visits happened between two pairs of pages; we can use that system to figure out patterns of reader navigation.
 * The system is organized in monthly batches, so we see the sum of what happened each month. The visualization of the most recent month is at https://wikinav.toolforge.org/?language=en&title=Lerner but for older months, there's no visualization at this point. So we have to reach for the raw data, by downloading the files and finding what we want inside them. That's what I do - I do a search of the monthly data files that I downloaded for all instances of "Lerner", for example.
 * About the individual line format - if e.g. we have one that says:
 * Lerner     Theodor_Lerner  link    16
 * that means there were 16 observed cases where a reader was at Lerner, and afterwards they navigated to Theodor Lerner.
 * We also see the keyword "link", which indicates there was a link being followed - otherwise it could say "other", which would mean the reader e.g. reached for the search box or something.
 * Now, the significant limitations to these statistics in this case exist because if there had been 9 observed cases where a reader was at Lerner, and afterwards they navigated to e.g. Main Page, this wouldn't show up - to protect reader privacy, all such cases where there were <10 cases the analysis are omitted.
 * Please let me know if this suffices to explain, or should I clarify further. --Joy (talk) 13:40, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Brains trust needed on this one please
I have posted this in the Australian Wikipedians project as well, but it has occurred to me that perhaps it should perhaps be a DAB, or there should be a separate DAB, and it would be good to have some input from DAB experts. See Talk:Adelaide University. There are lots of incoming links, plus a host of articles on things (mostly clubs) affiliated with the university beginning with "Adelaide University" rather than "University of Adelaide". I'm not sure which is the best way to go here. If the current one is converted into a DAB, it would still mean changing all the incoming links. And in the transition period, there's bound to be a lot of confusion. I don't know when the actual merger and new name will be finalised - I suspect that it will drag on beyond 2026, as it's already taken so long to get to this point. It will be a new entity, and I have no idea whether the clubs, union, etc. will retain their current names. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 05:52, 23 April 2024 (UTC)


 * What is the primary topic for "Adelaide University" – the existing University of Adelaide, the proposed combined institution, or none of the above? Certes (talk) 12:11, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Well it's difficult to know what it would be in the future, but at the moment I'd say its the University of Adelaide, as it's used interchangeably. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 12:31, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Then at the moment we should probably restore as a primary redirect to its current primary topic University of Adelaide, after moving the new article to Adelaide University (some qualifier goes here).  We should then revisit the titles if and when the existing institution ceases to be a primary topic for "Adelaide University". Certes (talk) 12:55, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks very much for the advice. I may not get to it for a couple of days as I'm going away, but I think that this sounds sensible. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 13:12, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I know the links are wrong but it may be wise to wait a day or two in case someone replies with a better idea. Certes (talk) 13:19, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Okay. I'll be away anyway. 😊 Laterthanyouthink (talk) 14:33, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I haven't done anything about this yet, but thinking about creating the new Adelaide University with a date in parentheses for now, and pushing the decision down the line. The thing is, which date? It was officially created in legislation this year, but won't be operational until at least 2026 (see here), and I suspect that there will be delays. I'd better copy this comment there too. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 07:44, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
 * You could raise a RM for the new university and see what new names are suggested. It would need to show clearly that the old university is still the primary topic for "Adelaide University" for now and should revert to being a WP:primary redirect, Certes (talk) 08:50, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Done. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 08:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Robert Carroll / Bob Carroll
Would it be appropriate to merge the Robert Carroll and Bob Carroll disambiguation pages?

There is at least one entry (Bobby Carroll) perhaps legitimately on both; and a couple others (Robert L. Carroll, Robert Todd Carroll) on both that perhaps should be only on one.

By way of comparison, James Lovell (disambiguation) includes both Jims and Jameses; Michael Collins includes Michaels, Mikes, and Micks. Sticking within the Robert/Bob world, Robert Blake and Robert Green (disambiguation) lump Roberts, Bobs, Robbies and Robs together; but on the other hand, Robert Hill and Bobby Hill are distinct DAB pages. TJRC (talk) 22:49, 17 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I would leave them as they are. Although all the Bobs are named Robert (possibly excepting the actor/singer), it seems more likely they would be sought by readers under Bob and would therefore be easier to find on a dab page devoted to Bobs. Robert L. Carroll and Robert Todd Carroll were both sometimes also known as Bob, so should be on both pages. Bobby Carroll is an unambiguous title with no evidence he was called Bob, so should probably just be a See Also on each page. I don't think there's any strong consensus about one way or the other, though. Station1 (talk) 01:14, 18 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I agree with the "sought by readers under Bob" bit, but the merged-from page would be a redirect to the merged-to page, so those doing the seeking would land on the appropriate page in any event. Not arguing for the merge, just giving my line of thinking. TJRC (talk) 01:34, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
 * True, they would land on the appropriate page, but my thinking is that it's slightly easier to peruse the four Bobs in a row on the Bob Carroll page than 11 mixed Bobs, Roberts and Bobby on a merged page. The difference is very minor in cases with a moderate number of names, like this, so I don't think it makes a great deal of difference, but it might in longer lists. Station1 (talk) 02:49, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I'll leave it be, then. Thanks for the discussion. TJRC (talk) 19:33, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Searching for "Blagger" currently redirects to a page with no mention of the word.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Blagger&redirect=no seems weird that it doesn't link or disambig to Blagger (video game). Not sure how to mark a page for "Disambig page needed". Oathed (talk) 20:00, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
 * "Blagging" refers to a social engineering technique, and at the time the redirect was placed, that was reflected in the Social engineering (security) article.
 * My own view is that Blagger (video game) should be moved to Blagger (there appears to be no other article called "Blagger", so the disambiguation parenthetical is not needed), optionally with a about hatnote along the lines of (assuming the "blagging" information is added to that article, which seems appropriate). TJRC (talk) 20:17, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @TJRC while you were writing that comment, I've nominated the redirect for discussion at Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 May 18. I agree the video game seems the primary topic.
 * @Oathed in general if you think a redirect should be replaced by a disambiguation page, you can just overwrite the redirect with the disambiguation page. If you aren't sure or aren't able to do that yourself for some reason then the best thing to do is to nominate the redirect at Redirects for discussion. If no page exists and you don't want to/aren't able to create one yourself you can request a disambig at Requested articles. Thryduulf (talk) 20:32, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Model hatnote
A third opinion would be appreciated at Talk:Model. Certes (talk) 21:28, 7 May 2024 (UTC)


 * A fourth opinion would be useful too! A tenacious editor has a firm opinion on why our normal hatnote practices should not apply to that article.  If they're right then I'd appreciate someone explaining the reasons more clearly. Certes (talk) 12:19, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

What to do about this one?
Aliu is a DAB, but (after considerable work finding all of those people!) find that it only seems to be used as a name, and in its capitalised form as an acronym. I was going to go ahead and create a name set index page, but then realised that would only leave those two entries, distinguished by case only. Is there any kind of rule about what to do in this instance? Or, alternatively, what would you prefer to see? Or just let it be and forget about it? Laterthanyouthink (talk) 09:30, 26 May 2024 (UTC)


 * My first thought is make Aliu the name set index and use a hatnote to link to the acronym usage. Redirect ALIU to the expansion of the acronym and add a hatnote to the name page from there. Thryduulf (talk) 10:50, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Actually seeing ALIU was red, I've created it as a redirect to Art Looting Investigation Unit and added the hatnote, although the wording of the latter could probably be improved. Thryduulf (talk) 10:56, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @Thryduulf Looks good. I was thinking on the same lines. Pam  D  11:33, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Though the target article of ALIU needed a bit of attention! Had a ludicrously long "short" description, and the lead gave no clue which country had set it up. Now tweaked. Pam  D  11:40, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks, and . I think I'd better remove the capitalised version and convert the DAB page into a set index one now. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 01:11, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Oh, it was already, but I just moved the ALIU into See alsos and changed the wording at the top to read that Aliu is a name. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 01:15, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Move 'Pratapsingh'?
i guess Pratapsingh page could be moved to Pratap Singh. becuase Pratap is First Nameand Singh is Middle or Last Name. there should be a space between these two (?) KuldeepBurjBhalaike (Talk) 03:59, 30 May 2024 (UTC)


 * It looks as if we have duplicate dab pages Pratapsingh and Pratap Singh. I don't know which title is more appropriate. Pam  D  04:24, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I have now redirected Pratapsingh to Pratap Singh, which has much higher pageviews, removed duplicate entries, added missing dates, and sorted the list into chronological order as more likely to help the reader where there are so many variations of spelling/spacing. Pam  D  09:05, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Small form factor (desktop and motherboard)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Small form factor (desktop and motherboard) that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. —Alalch E. 11:33, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Madonna
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Madonna that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Dawid2009 (talk) 15:00, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Konkani (disambiguation)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Konkani (disambiguation) that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Векочел (talk) 14:37, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Radość (disambiguation)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Radość (disambiguation) that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Safari Scribe Edits! Talk! 16:14, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Imperial University
I have been reverted repeatedly on dab Imperial University and would welcome a third opinion as to how MOS:DABONEBLUE applies there. Certes (talk) 15:32, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * For Japan, I would list only Imperial Universities and the University of Tokyo (which, as the first imperial university in Japan, was originally given that name). The others are WP:PTM. Dekimasu よ! 00:26, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Saint Sophia Cathedral
Hi folks- Right now, Saint Sophia Cathedral is a disambiguation page, but Saint Sophia Cathedral (disambiguation) redirects to List of churches dedicated to Holy Wisdom (which is a list, not a dab page). I think it should instead redirect to the dab page? It looks like Saint Sophia Cathedral was itself a redirect to List of churches dedicated to Holy Wisdom up until May of this year, but was (re)made into a dab page without bringing along the Saint Sophia Cathedral (disambiguation) redirect? I think that probably the "...(disambiguation)" redirect should just be updated, but I wanted to check here because this seemed like a kind of complicated situation. Thanks for any assistance! Cleancutkid (talk) 03:00, 10 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I've retargetted it. If there is a disambiguation page at X then X (disambiguation) should redirect there. Thryduulf (talk) 07:47, 10 June 2024 (UTC)


 * There's also interestingly a dab page Saint Sophia Church which probably ought to be merged with List of churches dedicated to Holy Wisdom. Some of them may indeed be dedicated not to "holy wisdom" but to Sophia of Rome, but the churches listed in her article include Santa Sofia, Naples which is in the "List of..." but not the dab page, so I don't think there is any meaningful distinction, and they should all be bundled into the list as is usual for church dab pages where "Church of x" and "X church" are brought together, with all their variations of St/St./Saint and often with the international spellings of the saint's name (see St._Andrew's_Church). On the other hand, that list isn't formatted as a standard church name dab. I'm sure there's a churches enthusiast around here who will sort this lot out! Pam  D  08:22, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * And Sophienkirche (disambiguation) might go into the mix. Pam  D  08:26, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the retargetting, @Thryduulf!
 * Yes, there are a number of different semi-overlapping pages, which I know that I found confusing to navigate when I was trying to sort out the links, and I think readers might find tough, too. I think there are 5 dab pages:
 * Saint Sophia Cathedral (disambiguation)
 * Saint Sophia Church (disambiguation)
 * Sofia Church (disambiguation)
 * Sophienkirche (disambiguation)
 * Hagia Sophia (disambiguation)
 * plus two lists:
 * List of churches dedicated to Holy Wisdom (standalone list)
 * (list section in article)
 * Cleancutkid (talk) 05:59, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * please note that Saint Sophia refers not only to Holy Wisdom but also to a number of saints. In my opinions mix all together is not useful for the navigation and the page List of churches dedicated to Holy Wisdom is not clear. MrKeefeJohn (talk) 08:06, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I beg to differ: most readers looking for information about a church named after Saint Sophia will not know whether the edifice is dedicated to Holy Wisdom or to one of the saints named Sophia, and merging all the church dab pages would make it easier to find what they are looking for. Rosbif73 (talk) 08:18, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @MrKeefeJohn, I agree that List of churches dedicated to Holy Wisdom is not useful/clear as it was/is, so I appreciate that you separated out the Saint Sophia Cathedral dab page. I don't think that everything should be thrown onto one super-long page, but that there should be some intentional thought put into what churches show up on what lists/dab pages (and making sure that things link to each other, which was sometimes not the case).
 * I don't have much experience with figuring out what the scope of dab pages like this should be (why I brought it up here), but ideally they can work well for both future readers (who, as @Rosbif73 mentioned, may not know who/what the church was dedicated to) and future editors to keep the pages making sense. Cleancutkid (talk) 05:35, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Add Santa Sofia to the mix - includes the Italian churches, whether they're dedicated to saint or to wisdom! Pam  D  14:47, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * And although Church of God's Holy Wisdom was an alternative name already bolded in the text of Hagia Sophia, there was no redirect from that term until I created it a few minutes ago, pointing to that article and relying on the hatnote there to lead the reader to an appropriate dab page for any other similarly-named church. Ouch. Pam  D  15:09, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * There's also a List of churches in Sofia, Bulgaria – most of which are dedicated to other saints, but which could be possible targets for "Sophia church". FWIW I've added this to the . Rosbif73 (talk) 08:44, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Hagia Sophia (disambiguation) needs some attention anyway - not a nicely-formatted MOS:DAB-compliant dab page, with a long preamble and various piped entries (eg under Greece). Pam  D  14:45, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I simplified the preamble and some of the entries (removed piping etc.) Jähmefyysikko (talk) 16:36, 12 June 2024 (UTC)