Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Islam/Shi'a Islam task force

Rules

 * Be polite :)

Afd For Article - List of Shia Muslims

 * This Article has been nominated for deletion. Please give your input on the matter here: Articles_for_deletion/List_of_Shia_Muslims

Template:Islam

 * Is our view fairly represented in Template:Islam? as of 04:20, July 31, 2005 (UTC), in the "The fundamental principles", Imamat is not even mentioned, nor any other shia fundamental belif... --Striver 04:22, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Template:Shia

 * Isnt it any Template:Shia or similar? --Striver 22:53, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Template:Root and branches of Shia Islam

 * Dosnt it sound like a good idea to create one? --Striver 22:53, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Never mind, just created Template:Muslim Beliefs in a rage, and just realized that i hade proposet it here :) --Striver 01:43, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * And Zora removed it from everywhere, since its a "unaccaptable" "abomination". Surprise.--Striver 02:41, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

ROLF!
Articles for deletion/Iranian Air Force C-130 crash in Tehran Striver 02:41, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Portal
Does anyone know how to edit a portal. I tried editing the section on 'Selected Muslims' (tried changing Mulla Sadra article to Imam Taqi's as it is his death aniversary). But it wont change, does any1 know hot to use/edit it? --Khalid! 11:36, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Important development
I think we should let everybody know about this: Ayatullah al-Udhma Yusof al-Sanei has just declared suicide bombing as Haram: --Zereshk 22:41, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Suggestion for Improvement
Do we have something like Iranian Wikipedians' notice board in Shi'a wikiproject. Also what's your idia about WikiProject Shi'a Islam?--Sa.vakilian 10:56, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia:WikiProject Shi'a Islam is basicly the same as the Iranian notice board. Or does it lack someting? I appreciate your addition to the main page and added some myself. --Striver 11:13, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I mean how we find which article need to supervision or attention?--Sa.vakilian 11:18, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
 * One example is Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Shi'a Islam/Biographical articles. Go to the bottom and fill out the "quality" section with one of the appropriate templates. I just added "b-class" to the Ali article, so you can see how i did it. Peace. --Striver 11:22, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I had seen it before. It is good But I think if we had a list in one page, we could monitor the situation easier. specialy most of Iranian use dial up and it takes a lot of time from them.--Sa.vakilian 11:28, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Also look at WikiProject Anglicanism--Sa.vakilian 11:30, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah. I don't have that problem... You can solve it by going to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Shi'a Islam and opening each link in a new window by right klicking it, then the other pages will load while you are reading one of them. If you install Firefox and use it instead of explorer, then you can open new windows by klicking the middle mouse button and the new windows will open in tabs instead of new windows. --Striver 11:31, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
 * My dear friend! You misunderstood. I mean it's very easier for new wikipedians who aren't familiar with WP to put a list in the main page too.--Sa.vakilian 11:36, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Hm, i see... Then maybe we should add a welcome message to guide them through the operation of the project? --Striver 11:42, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes of course. You'd better write a "welcome" and I can help you with the issues.--Sa.vakilian 11:52, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Then we can monitor the situation there.--Sa.vakilian 11:56, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Done! Thanks for helping out in making the project better! Peace. --Striver 11:56, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Whould you please add some note about reliability of the sources which has been added to WP:Shi'a like me?--Sa.vakilian 12:03, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, im working on that right now.--Striver 12:04, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

substitution of zulfiqar symbol by "Five persons" (PANJ TAN) symbol
I propose changing the symbol of Shi'a project. Panj Tan: This symbole represents Rasoolallah, Amiralmomenin, Hazrate Zahara, Imame Mojtaba and Sayyedoshohada. This symbol is related to Hadith of the Event of the Cloak. This symbol like a hand with open fingers. I think the zulfiqar isn't a good symble in comparison with (Panj tan):
 * 1-The "Panj tan" symbol represents our faiths better than zulfiqar.
 * 2-The people of west have bad idea about the "sword of Islam".
 * 3-It reinforces the propaganda against Muslims and Shi'a.

--Sa.vakilian 16:49, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
 * You are right, i agree. Ill keep an eye for a better pic. --Striver 17:25, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Is there consensus about this change. I think we let others tell us theirs idea. --Sa.vakilian 03:11, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Some of my friend are graphist. They can make a good symbol for us.--Sa.vakilian 03:11, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Brothers, I suggest you to visit www.mahdi.ms to learn more on this Flag, Zulifqar is not the weapon of mass destruction and it is the weapon which ensures the survival of the mass. My point is very clear, Why do we care for the west when they dont care, And we dont hv to prove anything to West but Allah and Allah knows who is right and wrong, And it is not the West to decided who enters Paradise and Hell. That is the Flag of Islam, And Islam was not spread by Sword or oppression, rather the ones who 're poor or weak had chosen Islam as a shield which safegurds them as Islam fights and belives in fighting against oppression and injustices. www.mahdi.ms --www.mahdi.ms 22:00, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Islam template
Salam. Please contribute to an RFC on the Islam template. Template talk:Islam--Sa.vakilian 03:07, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Merging
You edited:
 * (To quote you: "btw, there is not Shi'a and Sunni Guilds, they were renamed some while ago. --Striver 22:54, 11 November 2006 (UTC) " You are the only one who uses this guild; it is divisive.)

Yeah, there is no guild. Try to read the name: "Wikipedia WikiProject Shi'a Islam". And as you can see, it was not me reverting your merge here. --Striver 19:27, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Shia..
Since the article on Shi'a Islam was moved to Shia Islam, shouldn't a bot be run to replace all the Shi'a words with Shia, including the name of this project and all related templates? ← A NAS  Talk? 19:56, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Hello, anybody? -  A nas   Talk? 17:08, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Complete template changes
Alright, I hope we can discuss my most recent changes. I totally changed the Shia template around, and made it match stylistically the normal Islam template, but of course kept Zulfiqar. Also, I took out the Twelver specific information. I also redid the Twelvers template, and took out all information that applied to all Shias, as well as gave lots of specific Twelver information. Also, I added Alevi and Alawi as Twelver denominations, and I'm quite willing to fight for that. The Twelver template has a rather pixelated piece of calligraphy with all the Imams names, though only al-Mahdi (AS) is visible.

I would like to mention I believe the Twelver template might be leaning a bit too much towards Usoolism. We'll see what you guys think.

I did an Ismaili template from scratch, and made it size-wise and font-wise close enough to the Twelvers template, but unique enough as well. This is going to take lots of work to get all the information needed for Ismailism as well as weed out the overdone Twelver information being parasites on the generic Shia articles, but hopefully we'll be able to do this. --Enzuru 09:54, 14 August 2007 (UTC) (signed and dated several months after the event... sorry for that)

Changes to the WP:1.0 assessment scheme
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Wikipedia 0.7 articles have been selected for Shi'a Islam
Wikipedia 0.7 is a collection of English Wikipedia articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.

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Pictures of the Imams (A.S.) in the Templates
I have been seeing the imaginary pictures of our Imams (A.S.) on their pages. Can we do something about it, since it is absolutely wrong to depict our Imams (A.S.)? I strongly suggest that we should recreate and update the template. I know and understand that wikipedia doesn’t believe in censorship, but still, this shouldn’t give them the excuse to violate our rules, rights, and idea of thoughts. Salman (talk) 16:40, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Article alerts
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Sources for population statistics
Salam, I am updating an article on the demographics of Muslims, and I am having a hard time finding sources that specify percentages of Shia Muslims (and Sunni Muslims) for most of the countries. Any reliable sources you all can recommend? --Falastine fee Qalby (talk) 00:39, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Seperat Project and Portal
I think we should have a separate portal and project for Shia Islam, considering the fact the there are multiple projects and portals on christian factions. This will allow shia wikipedian's to promote articles related to Shia Islam, and improve the articles.

The Goal of the project will be


 * To provide credible sources regarding history
 * To improve articles related to Shia Islam
 * To remove nonsense(and vandalism) about Shia Islam
 * To expand Shia Islam related stubs

Taqi Haider (talk) 14:18, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

WP 1.0 bot announcement
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I would like to become a member of this group. Please contact me via email regarding the requirements for this project. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lilac Cotton (talk • contribs) 18:20, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Shi'a Islam articles have been selected for the Wikipedia 0.8 release
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LOOKING ADMINS/OPS FOR HADIPEDIA.COM (MEDIAWIKI BASED)
Brothers, I wonder if it's appropriate or not to ask here to find some ops/admins to run my newly setup wikiportal which is using same interface as this vary wikiportal, so it would be a lot easier for all of us to make participation and very frankly i am looking for sincere friends rather who can devote time to this great cause and Allah will reward them, I am very busy business person and i find it very tough for me to learn PHP and handle this portal all at my own also this portal belong to all of us just like this portal i am willing to run that portal on the basic rules as set by wikipedia.com .. it would include encyclopedia A To Z however i want to conenrate on Religion and Science or in other any information which can be useful to most of the world ... instead time wasting articles which only matters to a very a few people and also that information already available here on wikipedia.com --- So Basic theme of the portal is religious Encyclopedia however any article is acceptable which could be useful to general public thanks regards --www.mahdi.ms 21:50, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Shia Templates depicting imaginary pictures of the Imams


I have been seeing the imaginary pictures of our Imams (A.S.) on their pages. Can we do something about it, since it is absolutely wrong to depict our Imams (A.S.)? I strongly suggest that we should recreate and update the template. I know and understand that wikipedia doesn’t believe in censorship, but still, this shouldn’t give them the excuse to violate our rules, rights, and idea of thoughts. Salman (talk) 19:48, 28 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree, the usage of this contemporary depiction is odd, and i prefer the use of the name of 'Ali executed in an elegant calligraphic composition. While I dont agree that it is "wrong" per se, I do think that it would have at least been better to have used an image from a manuscript rather than a contemporary popular poster.Jemiljan (talk) 21:07, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Jemiljan, what can we do in order to erase the imaginery picstures of the Masoom (A.S.).Salman (talk) 19:45, 23 December 2008 (UTC)


 * It is not absolutely wrong to depict Imams according to the highest authority in the Usuli Twelver world, Grand Ayatollah Sistani. In addition, an overwhelming majority of adherents to Ismailism also allow depictions. And these are not contemporary popular posters, these are pictures that are very popular in the Twelver Alevi-Bektashi tradition from my knowledge, and can be found in Cem Evi. Further explanations have been given here, where one can even see a depiction of Husayn ibn Ali in one of the holiest cities in Shi'i Islamic tradition, Karbala. -- Enzuru 00:59, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Enzuru, as far as i know, We (the twelver Shi’as) don’t accept Ismailies to be Shi’a (as a matter of fact, some don’t even consider them to be muslims). I regualry visit the offial website pages of Ayatollahs and i have never seen a picture (which is depicting any of the masooms (A.S.)...) nor have i ever seen a statement saying that depicting the pictures of the masoom (A.S.) is valid. Salman (talk) 19:45, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Ismaili Lion?
Is the calligraphic lion really a religious symbol of Islamilis/Nizari Islamilis? If yes, can someone please provide a reference? --کاشف عقیل (talk) 00:18, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Feedback requested for edit request on Template:S-rel
There is an edit request on Template talk:S-rel that could benefit from the feedback of editors who are part of this WikiProject task force. The edit request can be found here: Template talk:S-rel. This edit is in regards to the proper spelling of the word "Shia" in the context that it is used on the template. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Steel1943 (talk) 03:48, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Articles which include Sunni views but not Shi'a views
I primarily have in mind articles like Islamic music. There were two other articles which were just perfect examples and I read them while Wikisurfing yesterday and I'm drawing a total blank now that I'm writing this, but I think we can brainstorm on others. Readers have no way of knowing the view of Shi'ite scholars on various topics on Wikipedia and, due to the Sunni view often being represented as the official view, readers may not even know that different opinions exist. Can we compile a list of articles where Shia views are not represented? Google Books has a ton of stuff from Brill and other publishers, I'm sure with a little time and effort this can be fixed. MezzoMezzo (talk) 07:11, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Some more suggestions
I have proposed a name change at Talk:The Twelve Imams and a split at Talk:Imams of Yemen. I think both proposals will add clarity for the sake of readers but there needs to be more community feedback first. MezzoMezzo (talk) 04:12, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

To do list
I've prepared a new to do list. Help with completing it, please. Mhhossein (talk) 05:56, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Nomination for FL
I'm going to nominate The Fourteen Infallibles at WP:FLC. As the guide line suggested, I listed it at peer review before the final nomination. Please consider participating the peer review discussions. Obviously, we are going to discuss the facts based on WP:FLCR not other issues related to the article. Mhhossein (talk) 13:48, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Merger of Al-Baqi cemetery
Demolition of al-Baqi is tagged for merger into Al-Baqi'. Find the discussion at Talk:Al-Baqi'.-- M h hossein   talk 05:40, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Expert attention
This is a notice about Category:Shi'a Islam articles needing expert attention, which might be of interest to your WikiProject. It will take a while before the category is populated. There might be as few as one page in the category, or zero if someone has removed the expert request tag from the page. &thinsp;&mdash; Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)&thinsp; 04:03, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Discussion about chart spam
A discussion was started at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Islam concerning a certain editor's spamming of charts onto Shi'a articles. --HyperGaruda (talk) 05:57, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

About portals
Dear all. At WP:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Ashura, the deletion of Portal:Ashura is discussed, as a not sufficiently large topic, and as an abandoned draft. While doing my own homework for this MfD, I came to Portal:Shia Islam. Where I was surprised seeing so few articles effectively used to make the rotations, and also seeing that news are only from November 2018. Please, see this only as a remark from a passerby. Pldx1 (talk) 14:58, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Discussion of Tahdhib al-Tahdhib on the reliable sources noticeboard
There is a discussion on the reliability of Tahdhib al-Tahdhib on the reliable sources noticeboard. If you're interested, please participate at. —  Newslinger  talk   22:52, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web tool
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Nomination of Peshawar Nights for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Peshawar Nights is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Peshawar Nights until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. M Imtiaz (talk · contribs) 17:56, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Significant content deleted
I have been editing for the last three months. Most of my edits are on the page of Mahdi. On 16th November, this person (VenusFeuerFalle) deleted a major portion of my content. Can anyone guide me as to what has to be done further in this regard. Blessedby14

Shi'a Task Force Template Image
Currently if you look at the Wikiproject Islam template, the Shi'a Task Force's image does not show up. This is because the original image was deleted. A user called has suggested replacement images here. The template editor closed the discussion as they said that user needs to start a discussion on the Wikiproject page.

So we need to decide between the following images for the Task Force Image on that template (unless anyone has some other suggestions they'd like to show):

It has been like this, without an image, for over 10 years(!) So we really do need to sort this issue out. Personally I suggest going with Dhulfiqar.

What are your thoughts? ParthikS8 (talk) 16:12, 16 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks for adding me to the discussion. I'm okay with 'Mirror writing2.jpg' or 'Dhulfiqar.svg' but I'll prefer an image which includes shadah 'la ilaha, ...rasoolAllah,...waliAllah' (& may be Dhulfiqar too); which will be more representative of Shia Islam.-- Fz t c s 16:50, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I fully support the idea of Fz "An image which includes shadah 'la ilaha, ...rasoolAllah,...waliAllah' (& may be Dhulfiqar too); which will be more representative of Shia Islam". Nannadeem (talk) 20:44, 18 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the ping ParthikS8. The very act of adding the image after 10 years is itself a great improvement. I am OK either of the choices. By the way, the Shia Islam taskforce had been inactive for a while. Do you have any ideas for making improvements? -- M h hossein   talk 11:54, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The following can also be suggested:

-- M h hossein   talk 07:44, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
 * @ Mhhossein No matter, either it is Zulfiqar/Dhulfiqar or Ghadir logo, but I would request you to include the wording 'la ilaha, ...rasoolAllah,...waliAllah'.  However I will prefer to Ghadir logo 1 Nannadeem (talk) 20:38, 21 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Personally I would prefer Dhulfiqar and since other editors are suggesting we add "la ilaha...rasoolAllah,...waliAllah" then we should add it. I am not very good with images and design myself so I am not sure where the added text should go. Seeing as you have more experience than me, could you add it to the Dhulfiqar to see how it would look?


 * As for improvements around here, I will have a think and will insha'Allah (God-willing) start a new section. And Eid Mubarak to you folks.
 * ParthikS8 (talk) 21:01, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I'll try to find/create free-image which includes shadah 'la ilaha, ...rasoolAllah,...waliAllah' & Dhulfiqar.- Fz t c s 06:06, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you ParthikS8. I am waiting for your suggestion. Thanks for doing the job. Will your creation include any of the above items? --  M h hossein   talk 13:09, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Religious Biography Infobox Standard for Shi'i Scholars
Sorry, I know you asked me for suggestions of improvements to this place, but I did have a more general question to members of the project that I want to discuss more urgently.

All this time I have been editing the Religious Biography Infoboxes for Shi'i scholars and have adopted the following standard which I am beginning to now question:


 * religion      = Islam
 * denomination  = Shi'a
 * creed         = Twelver
 * jurisprudence = Ja'fari (Usuli)

Example Here: Abbas Qomi

I list the denomination (Shi'a) and then list the strand of Shi'ism (as in Twelver/Zaidi/Isma'ili etc.) in the creed field. I then put Jurisprudence as "Ja'fari (Usuli)" for Usuli scholars, and "Ja'fari (Akhbari)" for Akhbaris, intending to put "Shaykhi" or "Alevi" for others. Finally I put 'Twelver' in the creed field. This is what I have been doing somewhat consistantly for most if not all Shi'a scholars infoboxes I've been editing. I would like a neat standard for the Shi'a scholars rather than piling everything into the denomination or sometimes the religion field like this (which is unseemly).

Now obviously there are some problems to this. "Usuli" vs "Akhbari" is not merely a fiqhi difference, its also a theological one. Some editors also seem to prefer that I just leave out mentioning "Ja'fari" in the jurisprudence field - but that I think it is the most appropriate thing to put there.

Also my main problem now is that I am questioning, can 'Twelver' be described as a 'Creed' in the sense this field is used for Sunni scholars? I think this wrongfully evokes the Sunni sense of what creed is, e.g. the Sunni theological schools Ash'ari, Maturidi and Athari and other theological 'Creed'al schools like the Mu'tazilah. Twelver is a theological distinction of Shi'ism but it is very much its own thing - Sunnis from one creed may (and do) recognise other creeds as equally legitimate, thinking of them in a way not dissimilar to the Sunni Jurisprudential schools. I will ask to confirm that. This is not similar to how 'Twelver' vs 'Zaidi' is viewed in Shi'ism - they are seperate and competing strands of Shi'a Islam that don't recognise each other as schools of orthodoxy.

I have noticed though that there is a field called 'sect' which would more appropriately be a place to put the distinction "Twelver" vs "Zaidi" etc. Then perhaps "Usuli" or "Akhbari" could be put in the creed box (as this is more analogous to the Sunni distinctions like "Maturidi" vs "Ash'ari") or simply left as they are. Or perhaps this could be moved in a compound fashion into the denomination box e.g. "Twelver Shia" as the denomination? For Isma'ilism this would allow the 'sect' and also 'subsect' box to more appropriately be used for delineating subsects. I am not sure though.

Here are my proposals:

Proposal 1

 * religion      = Islam
 * denomination  = Shi'a
 * sect          = Twelver
 * subsect       =
 * creed         = Usuli
 * jurisprudence = Ja'fari

Proposal 2

 * religion      = Islam
 * denomination  = Shi'a
 * sect          = Twelver
 * subsect       =
 * creed         =
 * jurisprudence = Ja'fari (Usuli)

Proposal 3

 * religion      = Islam
 * denomination  = Twelver Shi'a
 * sect          =
 * subsect       =
 * creed         = Usuli
 * jurisprudence = Ja'fari

or a variation of this like in 2 we could put Usuli/Akhbari in with Ja'fari as the Jurisprudence like so:


 * religion      = Islam
 * denomination  = Twelver Shi'a
 * sect          =
 * subsect       =
 * creed         =
 * jurisprudence = Ja'fari (Usuli)

(Or e.g. list Usuli v Akhbari as in the sect field instead).

The strength of this proposal becomes apparent when we reflect how Isma'ili scholars might be displayed:


 * religion          = Islam
 * denomination      = Isma'ili Shi'a
 * sect              = Musta'li
 * subsect           = Tayyibi (Dawoodi Bohra)
 * creed             =
 * jurisprudence     =

There may be other ideas that you have too.

Please comment on this issue so we can agree a neat standard for these infoboxes.

ParthikS8 (talk) 20:30, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Hello I have Just Joined
Hello I have just join. I would like to Be edit and create articals on Shia Islam. Could anyone give me a List of Articles to edit. User:Saladin_Ali-Din_Yusuf_ibn_Ayyub

Reliable sources links not working.
Hello. The reliable sources you've given for Twelver Shi'a viewpoint: the 5th and 7th links are sending me to a weird IDN poker website something, it is not an islamic website. And, the link in 6th, the "books" link and the 8th "imamreza" link are blank. They also are also not working. Please fix these. Izan Mehdi. (talk) 03:27, 14 November 2022 (UTC)