Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League

When does the season begin?
I changed the description of the 2024 NFL season in the infobox of National Football League, from current season to upcoming season, but my change has been rejected to. When does an NFL season begin? GoodDay (talk) 20:12, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Interesting question. The NFL has "league years", and based on this it would appear that the 2024-2025 league year began June 17 with the first official deadline for certain transactions. That said, you could argue the actual "season" begins with the first game and ends with the last game. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk)  @ 15:21, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @Gonzo fan2007: I believe the league year actually starts in March. The link you shared, I believe, updates, given that the draft and other significant events are no longer listed. If you scroll down to 12-Mar, you'll see that it says "The 2025 League Year and Free Agency signing period begin at 4:00 p.m., New York time." Hey man im josh (talk) 15:52, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * What josh said haha « Gonzo fan2007 (talk)  @ 15:53, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I've found a number of other sources on. It began March 13 this year as well, per the Giants, the Raiders, the Chiefs, Sports Illustrated, etc. It's probably regularly scheduled to be March 13, but that's just a pure guess based on it matching between last year and this. Hey man im josh (talk) 15:56, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I reverted you once, mostly because in my past experience, the "current season" parameter in the infoboxes on team articles as well as on the NFL article has been updated when the new league year starts, so that's what I've gone by.
 * However, it's a good question. Whether league year and season are the same. All team season pages currently talk about the 2024 season being the "upcoming" season for a team, and we still consider this time period before the preseason to be offseason. It's all a minor thing, but if we're going to say that the 2024 season hasn't started yet we'll also have to change Template:Infobox NFL team with a parameter for upcoming season for consistency, as they all say "Current season". KristofferAG (talk) 12:57, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Personally I'd prefer upcoming season only be used between the conclusion of the Super Bowl and March 13th, since that's when free agency begins. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 14:13, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * This is how I've always looked at it. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 15:33, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I support this also (noting that the exact date the league year starts varies within mid-March each year).  Frank  Anchor  19:49, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I'd say the season starts with the first week 1 game and ends with the Super Bowl, and is something separate from the league year that begins in March. Not too bothered if the vote goes the other way. Harper J. Cole (talk) 22:48, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I can see the wording being a bit tricky. League - after March 13th and season - week 1. Someone actually said it to me last week, that they just planned their vacation so they don't miss the start of the season (Reg. season - in September). Even though we know there are preseason games prior to that. Like H. J. Cole said, not bothered with the vote either way. Bringingthewood (talk) 00:05, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Disagreement on the "We want the ball" game
Hello, looking for some help and consensus on a disagreement between and myself regarding my recently created article "We want the ball and we're going to score!". First, I agree with their assessment that the article title should not have punctuation in it, so whenever this is resolved, happy to fix that and clean-up after the move. The crux of the issue though seems to focus on whether the eponymous name of this topic refers to the game itself, or just the comment by Hasselbeck. From my perspective, this game is notable for a few reasons: its the playoffs, it was the first consequential game in the team's rivalry, it was a competitive game, it went to overtime and then obviously what really did it was Hasselbeck's comment and then subsequent interception returned for a TD. I did consider just naming the article 2004 NFC Wild Card playoff game (Seattle–Green Bay), but that is clearly not its WP:COMMONNAME. Also, although the comment by Hasselbeck is obviously important, the actual play that is most notable is the interception returned for a TD. As I mentioned to Clarityfiend, this game was ranked as the 72nd greatest game in NFL history, so the game appears notable (noting that every source provides an overview of the game itself, not just the comment made by Hasselbeck). For assistance, Clarityfiend is proposing changing the opening lines to this version. I do not support that change because the topic of the article is not Hasselbeck's comment, its the NFL game that occurred in which he made his comment. Thank you for any assistance you can provide. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 15:23, 27 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Can you provide any sources calling/naming the game itself "We want the ball and we're going to score!"?
 * I've never heard the game itself referred to directly as "WWtBaWGS". That's the problem with the current lead sentence, and I agree with the other user that it's awkward phrasing. The "WWtBaWGS" game... would be better.
 * The "We want the ball and we're going to score!" game was the 2004 NFC Wild Card playoff game between the...
 * Or have the lead sentence describe the phrase and then the rest of the lead and the article describe the game, as their edit does.
 * Article title is a separate matter that can be decided later through WP:RM.
 * PK-WIKI (talk) PK-WIKI (talk) 16:22, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * PackersNews.com is titled "'We want the ball and we're gonna score!': Looking back at Packers-Seahawks classic". I think the point about moving the article would resolve the main concerns, because the first sentence would likely no longer have a bolded title in it. I think the point I want to get across though, is that the topic of the article is the game itself, not Hasselbeck's comment. Had the game ended in a Packers' field goal or some other non-dramatic way that included Hasselbeck, its likely the game doesn't get anywhere close to the coverage it has gotten. Note that we typically try to avoid (at least in my experience) repeating what the topic is, so The "WWtBaWGS" game...was a game is not preferred. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk)  @ 16:31, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't think the sourcing is there to name the game itself "WWtBaWGS". That phrase is often used as a "headline" for articles about the game, but I doubt we would ever see the game itself described as such in prose without being wrapped as "The WWtBaWGS game".
 * Note that I have no problem with the article title being "WWtBaWGS". Just that the lead sentence should be phrased with "The WWtBaWGS game" or describe the statement by Hasselbeck or some other solution like that. Likewise I have no problem with the article describing the full game + statement, rather than just the statement.
 * PK-WIKI (talk) 21:26, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Taken from Gonzo's talk page: The phrase is the proper name of the article, since that is what people remember (though there should not be quotes - see Category:Quotations and particularly Category:Quotations from sports). So really, this should be a quotation article, not a game one. And, as I have just noticed, A drive into deep left field by Castellanos uses pretty much the exact same phrasing as I did. Clarityfiend (talk) 06:30, 27 June 2024 (UTC) – While I don't have an opinion on the article title, I disagree with Clarityfiend on what the focus of the article should be. Those are two entirely different situations and, despite a quote from each being notable, they're not really comparable. I agree that the focus should be on the game, but I'd find it perfectly acceptable to expand aftermath section. Hey man im josh (talk) 17:47, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The problem, as I see it now, is that both the game and the phrase are notable in and of themselves, but there is too much overlap to justify two articles. So I now propose that the article be moved to "2004 NFL wild card game (Green Bay–Seattle)" and the original title (less quotes) point to the Overtime section.
 * Is the game notable in itself, or is it notable because of Hasselbeck's hubris? The top 100 list mentioned above is about "the 100 greatest across five categories – Plays, Games, Characters, Game Changers and Teams", not just games, and this particular entry talks only about the quote and the overtime result, nothing about the game in regulation. Without the QB's boast coming back to bite him in the ass, would the game qualify? Only one of the references (#21) supports the contention that it is notable, while several are about the Hasselbeck's outbreak of foot-in-mouth disease.


 * One off-tangent point:
 * There should be a Category:National Football League plays (and also playoff plays); The Immaculate Reception, Butt Fumble, etc. are currently listed in Category:National Football League games. Clarityfiend (talk) 11:12, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * My view is generally what happens in a game is what makes that game notable. So if the game has a memorable play or some other single thing that happened, what becomes notable is the game. The event that is occurring is a game, not just a single play. Almost always, a play is only notable with the full picture of the game (there are exceptions, like the Butt Fumble, which had almost nothing to do with the game and more to do with the absurdity, lol'ing and meme culture afterward). The Immaculate Reception was notable not just because it was a crazy catch or there was controversy on whether it was a catch, but because it was a playoff game and a walk-off win. This is also why all of these articles still use Infobox NFL single game, have Americanfootballbox and almost all provide a synopsis of the game. Again, the phrase isn't notable without the lead-up (a playoff game going to overtime) and then the fact that Hasselbeck threw a pick six to end it.
 * I could live with a move to 2004 NFC Wild Card playoff game (Seattle–Green Bay), if everyone feels good that that would resolve some of these concerns. It's kind of funny, but I always thought these common name titles should have "game" after them, but we seem to not self-reference what things are in article titles unless that is clearly the common name (i.e. I Have a Dream and not I Have a Dream speech; and Day of Infamy speech and not Day of Infamy). So in my mind it should be the Immaculate Reception game. But I'm clearly in the minority there. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk)  @ 15:06, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * There is nothing particularly notable about the game itself, only how it ended, and that is tied to Hasselbeck's comment. Playoff games that go into overtime, while rare, are not normally given articles solely on that account. The 2014 NFC Championship Game is another, much more unusual overtime playoff game that involved the same teams, and that one doesn't get an article. There are no good grounds to have two articles, and the quote is what football fans remember most. There are plenty of sources for the quote, almost none for the game itself, and the only one in the article for the game is just as one of a group of games involving the Packers and Seahawks. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:54, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I think that's where some of us disagree. This article is about the game and it absolutely should be from my point of view. The quote is what pushes it over the top in terms of notability. Without the game the quote wouldn't be notable and vice versa, they co-exist. Hey man im josh (talk) 12:12, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
 * , with respect, I just don't see any support for your position. You are welcome to try a larger venue, like WP:RM or WP:AFD. That said, Seattle Sports names the game as one of the most memorable in the rivalry SB Nation does too, noting it was the first playoff game and one of the first close games in the rivalry and NFL.com ranked it as one of the 100 greatest games ever, with most of the excerpt covering the game itself, not Hasselbeck's quote. Many sources cover a lot more than just the quote: the Associated Press story after the game dedicates just one sentence to Hasselbeck's comment, reserving the rest for the game itself and the Milwaukee Journal dedicates more than half the article about the game.
 * To your 'another article doesn't exist so this one shouldn't' argument, ironically enough two weeks ago I tagged that article (2014 NFC Championship Game with R with possibilities because I plan to make an article about. I am working on Packers-Seahawks rivalry right now, but it will likely be next up on my list. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk)  @ 14:26, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/George Kane (American football)
Discussion within scope of this project. Cbl62 (talk) 18:03, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Same issue at Articles for deletion/John Quast. Cbl62 (talk) 18:39, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Early NFL players redirected
A large number of early NFL players were recently redirected. Help in finding sources to restore any notable ones would be appreciated. See:


 * 1) Henry Lewis (1921)
 * 2) Johnny Nagle (1921)
 * 3) Charlie Lungren (1923)
 * 4) Swede Erickson (1924)
 * 5) Bill O'Toole (1924)
 * 6) Ivan Quinn (1924)
 * 7) Jack Daniels (1925)
 * 8) Fred Beach (1926)
 * 9) Steve Hanson (1926)
 * 10) Red Quam (1926)
 * 11) Gerry Sherry (1926)
 * 12) Ted Nemzek (1930)
 * 13) Wilmer Fleming (1931)
 * 14) Porter Lainhart (1932)
 * 15) Carmen Scardine (1932)
 * 16) Harry Marker (1933)
 * 17) Gil Robinson (1933)
 * 18) Babe Scheuer (1933)
 * 19) David Ward (1933)
 * 20) Ollie Savatsky (1935)
 * 21) Dominic Vairo (1935)
 * 22) Zed Coston (1939)
 * 23) Emmett Kriel (1939)

There's also, in addition to the AFDs on John Quast and George Kane above, an AFD for Tony Mehelich. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:55, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I made the above redirects (all one-game players from the early NFL) after tagging the articles back in 2022 for lack of SIGCOV. No improvements were made in the 18 months that followed. If you are able to find and add SIGCOV, feel free to return to main space. But per WP:SPORTBASIC, prong 5, these should not be returned to main space unless there is actual SIGCOV. Cbl62 (talk) 23:57, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Charlie Lungren and Ted Nemzek are not one-game players. They are four-game players and sub-stubs that I personally created before SPORTBASIC #4 was adopted. I have searched hard for SIGCOV without success, so I've redirected to the applicable team-season article. If someone can find and add SIGCOV, they are a better researcher than me, and they have my blessing to restore to main space. Cbl62 (talk) 14:18, 1 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Additional one-game redirects were created in 2022. The process has shown us that the vast majority of these one-game players do not satisfy GNG. However, if anyone wants to take another look, help in searching for SIGCOV is welcome.


 * 1) Les Asplundh
 * 2) Burl Atcheson
 * 3) Earl Bartlett
 * 4) Eddie Benz
 * 5) Mil Berner
 * 6) Stub Blackman
 * 7) Fred Borak
 * 8) Les Borden
 * 9) Phil Branon
 * 10) Eddie Bratt
 * 11) Phil Brennan
 * 12) Rankin Britt
 * 13) Max Broadhurst
 * 14) Chuck Brodnicki
 * 15) Matt Brown
 * 16) Fred Brumm (AfD)
 * 17) Bill Bucher
 * 18) Al Burgin
 * 19) Hal Carlson
 * 20) Red Chenoweth
 * 21) Bob Choate
 * 22) Fred Clarke
 * 23) Herbert Clow
 * 24) Bill Connell
 * 25) Ham Connors
 * 26) Don Cosner
 * 27) Zed Coston
 * 28) Fred DaGata
 * 29) Slats Dalrymple
 * 30) Darroll DeLaPorte
 * 31) Winnie Denton
 * 32) John Depner
 * 33) Don Dimmick
 * 34) Emil Dobry
 * 35) Sonny Doell
 * 36) Bob Dwyer
 * 37) Jim Eiden
 * 38) Red Emslie
 * 39) Arch Erehart
 * 40) Al Espie
 * 41) Charlie Essman
 * 42) Fred Failing
 * 43) Nick Farina
 * 44) Bill Fiedler
 * 45) Louie Fritsch
 * 46) John Gabler
 * 47) Patsy Gerardi
 * 48) Fred Getz
 * 49) Art Goerke
 * 50) Tom Golsen
 * 51) Aubrey Goodman
 * 52) Glenn Greenwood
 * 53) Len Gudd
 * 54) Harry Hall
 * 55) Hal Hansen
 * 56) Fatty Harris
 * 57) Wilbur Henderson
 * 58) Fritz Henry
 * 59) Hoot Herrin
 * 60) Andy Hillhouse
 * 61) John Hollman
 * 62) Clarence Hosmer
 * 63) Bill Houser
 * 64) Karl Hower (AfD)
 * 65) Cliff Jetmore
 * 66) Lorne Johnson
 * 67) Charlie Jonasen
 * 68) Carl Kane
 * 69) Sam Kaplan
 * 70) John Kauffman
 * 71) Adolph Kliebhan (AfD)
 * 72) Charlie Knox
 * 73) Steve Kobolinski
 * 74) Lou Koplow
 * 75) Mike Koziak
 * 76) Emmett Kriel
 * 77) George Kuhrt
 * 78) Zvonimir Kvaternik
 * 79) John Kvist
 * 80) Doc LaDuron
 * 81) Pete Lauer
 * 82) John Law
 * 83) Bernie Leahy
 * 84) Franklin Lewis
 * 85) Harry Livers
 * 86) Roy Longstreet
 * 87) LaDue Lurth
 * 88) Max MacCollum
 * 89) Herbert Magida
 * 90) Joe Mantell
 * 91) Phil Marshall
 * 92) Gus Mastrogany
 * 93) Charlie McBride
 * 94) Bob McGee
 * 95) Brian McGrath
 * 96) Jack McKetes
 * 97) Ralph Meadow
 * 98) Bill Meisner
 * 99) Buck Miles
 * 100) Dutch Miller
 * 101) Red Morse
 * 102) Bill Muellner
 * 103) Jim Nicely
 * 104) Dick Noble
 * 105) Clem Nugent
 * 106) Henry Orth
 * 107) Charlie Payne
 * 108) Art Peed
 * 109) Joseph Plunkett
 * 110) Phil Poth
 * 111) Spencer Pope
 * 112) Bill Potts
 * 113) Roger Powell
 * 114) Bill Preston
 * 115) Frank Primeau
 * 116) Ken Provencial
 * 117) Ed Rate (AfD)
 * 118) Ed Reagen
 * 119) Harry Richman
 * 120) Speed Riddell
 * 121) Rollin Roach
 * 122) Loyal Robb
 * 123) Gil Robinson
 * 124) Glynn Rogers
 * 125) Tony Rovinski
 * 126) John Rupp
 * 127) Reggie Russell
 * 128) Bill Sanborn
 * 129) Buck Saunders (AfD)
 * 130) Carmen Scardine
 * 131) Babe Scheuer
 * 132) Art Schiebel
 * 133) Jim Schuber
 * 134) Heinie Schultz
 * 135) Twing Seeds
 * 136) Joe Setron
 * 137) Frank Seyboth
 * 138) Ronald Shearer
 * 139) Fred Sheehan
 * 140) James Sheldon
 * 141) Stan Sieracki
 * 142) Pete Slone
 * 143) Bill Slyker
 * 144) Marv Smith
 * 145) Spike Staff
 * 146) Mike Steponovich
 * 147) Howie Stith
 * 148) Aubrey Strosnider
 * 149) Hew Sullivan
 * 150) Jim Talbott
 * 151) Charlie Tallman
 * 152) Jim Tarr
 * 153) Bob Tarrant
 * 154) Rex Tobin
 * 155) Ed Tolley
 * 156) Hal Truesdell
 * 157) Tiny Turner
 * 158) Pete Vainowski (AfD)
 * 159) Dominic Vairo
 * 160) Roy Vassau (AfD)
 * 161) Elmer Volgenau
 * 162) Eddie Wall
 * 163) Bill Wexler
 * 164) Tommy Whelan
 * 165) Walker Whitehead

Cbl62 (talk) 01:06, 1 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I'm definitely gonna go rummaging through newspaper archives searching for SIGCOV just you can AfD it anyway. And you know full well that Newspapers.com doesn't have everything. You yourself used to use News Library before we had to pay for it. And there was a lot of SIGCOV on there that we couldn't find anywhere else. Links go dead on the internet all the time. Also, in regards to one of your messages on Beanie's talk page, the "wolves" are going to come if we appease them anyway. Once the one-gamers are gone, they'll just move on to the two-gamers. Deleting NFL players who actually played would have been unheard of 10 years ago. We used to just argue over practice squad, training camp, and college players. I suspect in another 10 years time base GNG might not even be good enough, there might be an explicit clause added to discount local/routine coverage. You do a lot of good work here but I felt like I should leave this comment. I'll move on now. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk. ~WikiOriginal-9~  ( talk ) 18:28, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the note, WO-9. We both care a lot about wikipedia's coverage of football history. And, yes, I do worry about the anti-sports wolves circling back to take deeper bites out of the herd. The best way IMO to fend that off is for us to act responsibly, to abide by the existing community consensus. to show that we are capable of policing our own project, and to avoid resorting to IAR arguments that just piss people off. The NFL of the 1920s did not generate the same level of publicity, and many (probably most) of the one-game players of the early years (and a lot of players with multiple games) fail to meet the current guidelines. Cbl62 (talk) 22:04, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Thanks Cbl. ~WikiOriginal-9~  ( talk ) 22:41, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I think you both, as well as Beanie, have great intentions to provide high quality content, which has been reflected in your many combined years of editing. I am probably one of the few who has wavered the most on this issue, at one time being a deletionist while other times wanting to save them. I have always been surprised and impressed on what Beanie has been able to convert into a great article, and I think for many of these it will come down to an article-by-article assessment. Either way, I think everyone here appreciates all of your hard work to provide high quality content across the history of AmerFoot. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk)  @ 23:06, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

New AfDs
Cbl62 (talk) 22:05, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Articles for deletion/Joseph Chrape - 1929 NFL stub (I created)
 * Articles for deletion/Alec Anderson (American football, born 1894)
 * Articles for deletion/Red Shurtliffe - 1929 NFL stub (I created)
 * Articles for deletion/Herm Young - 1930 NFL stub (I created)
 * Articles for deletion/George Meinhardt - 1923 NFL stub (I created)
 * Articles for deletion/Charlie Lanham - 1922-23 NFL stub (I created)
 * Articles for deletion/Charlie Olmstead - 1922-23 NFL stub (I created)

The confusing case of Ed and Eddie
We have articles on two Edward J. Doyles who played in the NFL around the same time:
 * Eddie Doyle (American football) - played for Frankford/Pottsville in 1924-1925.
 * Ed Doyle (American football) - played for Buffalo 1927

Both are shown with the same death date in Morocco. Are these the same person? Or are there two? Adding to the confusion, there is a third Edward J. Doyle (here) who also attended Canisius around the same time as #2 Cbl62 (talk) 17:26, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Per Beanie, PFR (here) shows second Doyle as dying much later in Canada. So this is probably just a case of mistaken identity on #2. Cbl62 (talk) 17:32, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * According to PFR, Doyle # 2 is not even an Edward. He's an Elmer. What a mess. Cbl62 (talk) 17:36, 4 July 2024 (UTC)


 * @Cbl62: PFR has an "Ed Doyle" that I believe matches up with individual #2 in your list.
 * Both listed as born July 5, 1905
 * Both listed as born in Buffalo, NY
 * Both listed as having played for the 1927 Buffalo Bisons
 * Same college (Canisius) listed
 * Both offensive linemen
 * Ed Doyle's full name is apparently Elmer John Doyle as well. Apparears Ed Doyle may have also went by Bud Doyle, based on this roster the NFL has on their site, which includes a link to a Bud Doyle who matches up with the PFR individual. Hey man im josh (talk) 17:37, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Cbl62: Found a relevent article on Ed Doyle here. Hey man im josh (talk) 17:41, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks Josh, the article has been fixed now. Cbl62 (talk) 16:09, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * His name seems to be 'Elmer' and PFR seems to be the only source with 'Ed' – should the article be moved to Bud Doyle (his nickname) or Elmer Doyle? BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:42, 5 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Copying this discussion to the article talk page. Let's discuss further there. Cbl62 (talk) 16:49, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Al Shook
I searched for SIGCOV regarding the above but came up empty. Shook played two games at guard for Columbus in 1921. The article has been listed at the biography cleanup campaign for a year but it remains a stub. I have redirected it to 1921 Columbus Panhandles season. If someone can find SIGCOV and add it to the article, feel free to return it to main space. Pinging User:WikiOriginal-9 as the article creator. Cbl62 (talk) 20:49, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Same basic situation for Ed Sparr (2 games, 1926), now redirected to 1926 Racine Tornadoes season. Cbl62 (talk) 23:24, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

WikiProject National Football League/Football biography cleanup
It will be a year next week since we started the above campaign. In that time, we've improved roughly 200 football player biographies, which is great. There are a lot more left that could use your TLC. If you have some time this summer, take a look and see what can be done.Cbl62 (talk) 22:34, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

NFL recaps in schedule tables
As seen here doesn't this violate WP:External Links?-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 06:59, 9 July 2024 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure I've seen those types of links thousands of times in soccer articles. Such as 2020 Seattle Sounders FC season (promoted to FA in February 2024) and 2022 FIFA World Cup (promoted to GA in March 2024). Hey man im josh (talk) 13:00, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Monte Kiffin
Can anyone here help to clean up and add references to Monte Kiffin, so it can get posted at ITN/RD? Thanks, Natg 19 (talk) 16:25, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Also, Jacoby Jones needs cleanup as well, for posting at ITN/RD. Natg 19 (talk) 16:52, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Natg 19: I did a significant amount on the article this past little bit, including 20 references and cleaning up the formatting of the rest. The only thing I see is expanding his Houston Texans section. Hey man im josh (talk) 18:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Ainer Cleve
NFL player from 1920s. Cbl62 (talk) 00:41, 16 July 2024 (UTC)