Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Pennsylvania/Archive 1

Assessments
Would it be possible to include in the assessment table a means to count the number of tagged articles which have not been assessed for importance (similar to that for the quality reference?) Internazionale 15:30, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * You have to take that up with the programmers Wikipedia_talk:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team--evrik 15:43, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Noted. Though I suspect this particular question might be a bit late in the game for the current efforts.  I will touch base with them.  Thanks for the suggestion.  Internazionale 19:14, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

User Tags
Would it be possible to develop a User tag for those working on this project? (I don't know how to, or I'd do it myself) Skabat169 14:16, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I think there is one. Go look again. --evrik 15:31, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

What we are working on and plans
I thought it might be useful to say things we have worked on and plan to work on as far as Pennsylvania articles goes. I am working on creeks (mostly on the Susquehanna), have worked on the 67 PA County pages (made maps of each county and school districts maps for the 63 counties with more than one SD), the 21 PA State Forest articles, am working on the State Parks, some shortline railroads and Native American paths. See my user page for partial list of these if interested.

As for plans, I want to keep on working on the above. I would also like to add a few sentences to each county article explaining the legal meanings of city, borough, (one town), and township as well as Census Designated places and unincorporated villages and hamlets. I also want to add links to each of the PennDot county maps as they show all the unincorporated places. What are everyone else's interests? Ruhrfisch 16:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Johnstown Inclined Plane
I had to blank two sections of Johnstown Inclined Plane because they were copied directly from inclinedplane.com (with some later editing for unit conversion and other minor tweaks). I hated to blank most of the article, because it looks interesting (and I believe it's on the National Register of Historic Places). Would someone from this project would be interested in rewording the article so it isn't a copyvio? --Elkman - (Elkspeak) 18:21, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I took care of the technical part; I didn't touch the history part. --M @ r ē ino 22:12, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I added back in the history and a brief bit on the engineer, put in inline citations and an infobox, removed the stubs, and updated the PA project tag here. Unfortunately, I also discovered the picture used is almost certainly copy vio, so I tagged that and listed it at WP:PUI. Anyone near Johnstown with a camera want to get a decent picture? ;-) Ruhrfisch 02:30, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

New Articles
Would I be able to add new articles to this project? I can think of dozens. --M @ r ē ino 22:12, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes. --evrik 22:25, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

A suggestion
Would it be possible to make our WikiProject Pennsylvania "banner" (see top of page) much smaller? It is 9 lines of text on my browser plus another one to three lines for the ratings (so it is at least 10 lines of text and may be up to 12 lines). The image is also very big (200 pixels wide by 120 pixels tall). Except for WikiProject Philadelphia, whose banner I suspect was used as a model for ours, I have only seen two or three lines of text in Wikiproject banners (and their image of Billy Penn is only 100 by 70 pixels). For examples see River (three lines of text, 70 by 45 pixels) or Messagebox protected areas (two lines of text, two images 50 by 34 and 50 by 38 pixels). WikiProject Trains has a rating system too. Their banner is three lines of text, plus a line on a project To Do list, plus one rating: TrainsWikiProject.

Anyway, what if our image was 71 pixels wide (same as in Template:User Wikiproject Pennsylvania), and the text were something like this:

PAGE NAME is part of WikiProject Pennsylvania, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Pennsylvania on Wikipedia. To participate, you can edit the attached article, or visit the project page to join the project, or discuss the project.

Note: "Discuss" is a link here.

Just a suggestion, I would be bold and edit the template myself but figured this is better to discuss and build consensus on before making any changes. Ruhrfisch 03:06, 13 August 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, here's a REAL banner / message box with the suggested text and smaller flag (90 pixels wide). This is all open to suggestion, but I think it looks much neater. What do you think? Ruhrfisch 15:33, 14 August 2006 (UTC) EDITED Ruhrfisch 18:37, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Why do that? Putting a fake in doesn't help the project.The whole point of the banner is that it helps track the articles. just add WikiProject Pennsylvania and don't add the ratings, see Talk:Stephen Foster Memorial.   --evrik 17:48, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry for any confusion. I put in a fake banner on this discussion page only to illustrate what my suggested changes might look like. I did not make that clear enough - I want to put real banners on pages and have added some. It is now a real banner in the discussion above, just with a different, shorter message and smaller flag.


 * My concern is that the current banner is needlessly bloated. What does the current middle sentence really mean or add? Wikipedia is supposed to have articles with excellent, concise prose. The message in our project's banner is neither. Look at a page with multiple banners on it (say Talk:Larrys Creek) and compare. Why does our current banner (below) need to be so big and wordy?


 * Look at the banner for WikiProject Rivers (above) - which one looks better to you? Our current 7 plus line behemoth or theirs? Ruhrfisch 18:37, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

-I don't have a problem with sparser prose. --evrik 18:58, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I support Ruhrfisch's smaller banner. --M @ r ē ino 18:07, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

We should drop the ratings until we actually start actively assigning ratings. Otherwise, it kind of looks bad to have the vast majority of articles not yet rated. --Chris Griswold 03:07, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Additionally, we should change "an effort to build" to "which builds" and drop the excessive commas and "or"s. "to join the project" should go as well, because it's somewhat redundant. This will help to reduce the template's size. --Chris Griswold 03:10, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I made the above suggested changes in my model banner (please tweak it more if needed) and it is down to two lines of text plus the ratings. I am slowly adding ratings to the PA County articles and those of their county seats. Unless I see evidence otherwise, I make them "Start" class and Mid importance. If they are not already stubs (labeled as such) start class is a good guess. If they have a lot of content and refs, they are class B. Good Article and Featured Article need outside evaluation, and should already be labeled. My $0.02 worth, Ruhrfisch 03:42, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I support the new model banner, too. Post it already! :) --M @ r ē ino 16:46, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

OK, thanks - the change has been made. Ruhrfisch 17:38, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

What is part of WikiProject Pennsylvania (and what is not)?
I have another question ;-) I think it is clear that some things are part of WikiProject Pennsylvania - obviously the Pennsylvnania article, all 67 county articles, all the cities, boroughs, townships, and other places, as well as the Pennsylvania history articles. Is anything that is located in Pennsylvania (like the Johnstown Inclined Plane, mentioned above) part of the project? I would say so, although we then get some articles in multiple projects (even the inclined plane could be in the Trains project, rivers and creeks are also be in the Rivers project, baseball stadiums in the Baseball project, etc.).

What about PA sports teams? What about people with some PA connection? Does Jimmy Stewart become part of our project since he was from Indiana, PA? I would not put George Washington in the Project, although he spent a lot of time here and surrended his only time in PA. I guess I am just trying to decide what to tag and what does not get a tag. Since this project is just starting out, it would be good to decide early.

I also think something can be part of the project and low priority. My vote for our top priority is the Pennsylvania article itself, then the History of Pennsylvania (which has some big holes in it), then the top cities and then the counties. I am still thinking about this though and want to hear what everyone else thinks. Ruhrfisch 20:18, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Anything we tag with our template is ours. ;-0 --evrik 20:27, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed - maybe the question is better phrased as what should our highest priority items be? Ruhrfisch 20:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't know. I think we take on the tagging first, and as we go through the articles we set the priority. Something similar started, but stalled, on WikiProject Philadelphia. --evrik 21:23, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Civil War
I have created an article Pennsylvania in the Civil War, as well as a Category:Pennsylvania in the Civil War to help expand Wiki's coverage of the commonwealth during the Civil War. The Wiki Military History Project maintains articles regarding Pennsylvania generals and admirals, as well as battles such as Battle of Gettysburg. Scott Mingus 15:43, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

A Pennsylvania Featured Article Candidate
Larrys Creek (in Lycoming County, PA and with our project tag) is a Featured Article Candidate. If you want to weigh in on the nomination, it is here Featured article candidates/Larrys Creek. Thanks for any feedback! Ruhrfisch 17:40, 24 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, that would certainly continue the great Wiki tradition of featuring articles on topics that no one's ever heard of. Hooray WikiProject PA, and Hooray Larrys Creek! --M @ r ē ino 17:57, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks (I think). This is what happens when you let anyone edit ;-). It is not Featured yet, just nominated yesterday. Seriously, if you think it is not worthy of FA status (too obscure or any other shortcomings) please say so at the FAC page - that's why I nominated it. Ruhrfisch 18:02, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not being sarcastic -- I genuinely support the nom. I have been around long enough to know that "too obscure" is a verrrrrry low bar when it comes to FA.  "Larry's Bait Shop Next to Larrys Creek" would be "too obscure".  But a river that supplies drinking water for lots of people and serves as a good archetype for other regional rivers is certainly no more obscure than some of the stuff we've had on the main page (ROT13, Antarctic krill, Pet skunk, Canon T90, Toledo War).  --M @ r ē ino 18:36, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I really appreciate the support. For a long time I thought the article was too obscure / limited in subject, but the Caroline Island and Cynna Kydd articles (both of which I thought were well done) helped change my mind. I started this article as it was a small creek and a good model for other, larger creeks I am (slowly) working on. I kept learning more interesting things about it and it grew like Topsy. Thanks again, Ruhrfisch 18:53, 24 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Larrys Creek made featured article today - thanks to all who helped in any way! Ruhrfisch 03:43, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * P.S. Sorry to report that Pet skunk was removed as a Featured article (as reported in the Wikipedia Signpost). Ruhrfisch 03:43, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Another Pennsylvania Featured Article Candidate

 * Another FA candidate on a relatively obscure PA-related topic is available at Featured article candidates/Point Park Civic Center. Christopher Parham (talk) 16:30, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Point Park Civic Center is an excellent article. Thanks Ruhrfisch 03:43, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Announcing WikiProject Pittsburgh
For those specifically interested in editing Pittsburgh-related projects, please take a look at WikiProject Pittsburgh. --Chris Griswold (  ☏  )  16:30, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Tagging talk pages and assessing articles
Hi. If you still have work to do tagging talk pages and assessing articles, my AWB plugin might be of interest to you.

The plugin has two main modes of operation:
 * Tagging talk pages, great for high-speed tagging
 * Assessments mode, for reviewing articles (pictured)

As of the current version, WikiProjects with simple "generic" templates are supported by the plugin without the need for any special programatic support by me. I've had a look at your project's template and you seem to qualify.

For more information see:
 * About the plugin
 * About support for "generic" WikiProject templates
 * User guide
 * About AWB (AutoWikiBrowser)

Hope that helps. If you have any questions or find any bugs please let me know on the plugin's talk page. --Kingboyk 14:44, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Lehigh Valley?
Please see my comments on equating A-B-E metro with Lehigh Valley under the Lehigh Valley Talk page in the Boundaries? section. I would like to create references for the L.V. article but can find none to support defining the Lehigh Valley as Lehigh-Northampton-Warren-Carbon and parts of Berks, Bucks, etc. My POV is that the Lehigh Valley is historically defined as Lehigh-Northampton counties plus the Phillisburg area and that the metro definition is a more recent invention unrelated to the definition of the Lehigh Valley itself (the Valley is part of the metro, but not all of it). My ultimate concern is that the Lehigh Valley article is the primary source of the definition it presents. Thank you. Allreet (talk) 14:58, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

All, recently Category:Lehigh Valley was added to many places in western New Jersey that are clearly outside of the geographical domain of Lehigh Valley, but are perhaps in the economic or social sphere of the valley. This action places those NJ locations under the Category:Pennsylvania hierarchy, which has caused problems in the past (see here). Myself, I'd like to see this reverted, as it puts NJ locations in the PA hierarchy, and makes a false indication of a strong link between these locations and Pennsylvania. Please comment. Thanks. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 21:51, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I take responsibility for adding the locations. All of them are in the Warren County, New Jersey/Phillipsburg, New Jersey area and generally are part of the Valley, as defined by the broader geographic definitions offered in the article itself.  Some of these areas, including Phillipsburg itself and Alpha, New Jersey are long considered part of the Valley.  The area's broader definition recently seems to include Warren County, which was my justification for adding those locations.  I would have absolutely no objection to going back and removing some of these, especially those in eastern Warren County, though such a decision would be pretty subjective based on two geographic interpretations of the region, as explained in the article: 1.) Lehigh and Northampton County and absolutely nothing else; or 2.) Lehigh, Northampton, and also some parts of Bucks, Berks, Carbon, and Warren.  ChrisRuvolo: If you would feel comfortable with me removing the eastern areas of the county, that seems a reasonable compromise on the region's geographic definition.  But clearly many people in Warren County consider themselves part of the Lehigh Valley, work in the Lehigh Valley, listen, read and watch Lehigh Valley media, etc.  PAWiki 23:09, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I think the catgeory should exclude the NJ locations, they are clearly outside of the geography of the valley. As for the metropolitan area, the Pennsylvania metropolitan areas article doesn't mention Lehigh Valley.  Also note the hierarchies that the category is under, they belong to Pennsylvania and not New Jersey.  I think that removing the towns from the eastern portion of Warren County from the category would be a good start, but it is not sufficient. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 04:07, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I would vote in favour of keeping the New Jersey references. During the colonial period, a lot of business, migration, and history happened centered around the Easton, PA area (once known as Forks of the Delaware), and a lot of that history/business/migration happened in Warren (formerly Sussex until 1824) and Hunterdon County areas. &mdash;ExplorerCDT 23:38, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I think that would be more appropriate to mention in the history section of the Lehigh Valley article. I'm not sure we should be basing the category hierarchy on that. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 03:12, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Invitation to new WikiProject
A new WikiProject has been started, and may be of interest to members here. It is WikiProject National Register of Historic Places. It covers all listings on the Register, in all states and territories. Should you be so inclined, please feel free to join. And spread the word to any other interested parties. -Ebyabe 19:56, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Project directory
Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 19:17, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Origins of Berks and Bucks Counties in Pennsylvania
While researching the origins of these two counties, I noticed that Wikipedia articles say that Berks County (an abbreviation of Berkshire) and Bucks County(an abbreviation of Buckinghamshire) both derive from William Penn's ancestral home.

Since it cannot be both, let us agree that it is Buckinghamshire (determined by further investigation), and delete the reference in the Berks County article. John Devine — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.197.55.150 (talk • contribs) 13:41, 27 October 2006
 * Perhaps you should register for an account? That aside, Why cant' both Berks and Bucks come from one name? --evrik 19:28, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Because "Berks" is a short form of Berkshire and "Bucks" is a short form of Buckinghamshire, which are two different counties in England. Ruhrfisch 16:40, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Pennsylvania Climate
The article Pennsylvania lacks a section on climate. Jcam 21:43, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Upcoming NYC Meetup
You wanted to know when the next meetup was being organized in New York City. Plan for Saturday, 9 December 2006. While you're at it. Come help us decide on a restaurant. See: Meetup/NYC. Spread the word. Thanks. &mdash;ExplorerCDT 22:53, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Kings Gap State Park Naming Question
Please see comments Talk:Kings Gap State Park --evrik (talk) 14:39, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I put this notice here because I wanted to discuss possible changes with other members of the project. I am not sure why evrik keeps moving it to the talk page, but please comment there. At least four of the discussions above are topics that could also have been moved to the relevant talk pages, so if I am missing something, please let me know. Thanks, Ruhrfisch 16:43, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Yet Another Pennsylvania Featured Article Candidate
White Deer Hole Creek (in Lycoming County, Pennsylvania and with our project tag) is a Featured Article Candidate. If you want to weigh in on the nomination, it is here Featured article candidates/White Deer Hole Creek. Thanks for any feedback, Ruhrfisch 15:14, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * White Deer Hole Creek made featured article today - thanks to all who helped in any way! Ruhrfisch 19:11, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

What are valid external links for PA county and PA community articles?
I have been having a discussion with Pikeweatherman about what kinds of external links can be included in the Pike County, Pennsylvania article, but it has raised larger questions. This user has added links to the TriState Observer newspaper in various Pike County articles (and even to the Pennsylvania article), all in the External links sections. I reverted and argue the newspaper website does not meet the criteria of WP:EL here. Pikeweatherman's arguments are here.

Since Wikipedia is supposed to be about consensus, I thought it would be good to see what other members of Wikiproject Pennsylvania thought were valid external links for PA County articles and articles on PA municipalities (cities, boroughs, townships) and CDPs. Official web sites are fine, but what about newspapers? Chambers of commerce? Other kinds of sites? Official state maps of each county? What do you revert on sight? What do you add?

I will also put a notice on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. counties about this discussion. Thanks in advance for your input, Ruhrfisch 03:14, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't feel that linking to a newspaper is appropriate. An individual article about the subject, on the other hand, is fine. --Chris Griswold (  ☎  ☓  ) 08:24, 25 December 2006 (UTC)


 * If the newspaper is the single largest source of local news from the county, there isn't a problem with including a link to the paper's official Web site. But I don't think it should be included on the state's article.  One of the purposes of external links is to provide places where people can find additional information about a place or the people living there.  A major local paper for a town or county fits that purpose.  If the county has a chamber of commerce, include it.  Other sites you can link to include county historical society or genealogical society, county-wide library system, or any other authoritative sources of information about the county.  But you wouldn't want to add anything specific to the cities or other county subdivisions (eg. city chamber of commerce).  If you can create map links similar to what is seen on the city articles, that would be good.  (Fortunately for Kansas, the state provides us with a public map that we can chop up and incorporate into the articles.) —Mike 22:49, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 22:20, 29 December 2006 (UTC)