Talk:Avenue Range Station massacre

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Avenue Range Station massacre. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20161012010923/http://maps.sa.gov.au/plb/ to http://maps.sa.gov.au/plb/%23

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 12:56, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

Misc pre GA review suggestions and questions
Hi Peacemaker, what a great job you've done recording the conflictions of the various versions. Here are a few suggestions and questions. I certainly understand that answers may not exist. Please ignore any that are not helpful. I only saw two minor typos which have since been fixed.
 * "pastoral station" - pipe wlink to Sheep station? - o'seas readers may think of railways


 * "...a fire which contained bones." - more bones


 * "Brown was charged with the murder of "unknown aboriginal natives" on 1 March 1849." (x2) - is ambiguous, ie it could be read as murders occurred 1 March, so maybe move date? Brown was charged on 1 March 1849 with the murder of "unknown aboriginal natives".
 * Also, the sentence preceding says "Moorhouse's original report in March 1849..." so was Brown charged same day of report or prior to it?
 * I think Moorhouse's reporting was independent of the court process, as he reported to the Chief Secretary
 * I think Moorhouse's reporting was independent of the court process, as he reported to the Chief Secretary


 * "In late March or early April he appeared before a local magistrate..." - did he actually plead not guilty? Do we know if he was represented?
 * Info not provided in Foster et al.


 * Foster et al (x5) need fullstop?


 * "...exodus of white labourers to the Victorian goldfields." - Victorian gold rush is more evocative?


 * "...Parker denied any knowledge of the crime, as did others who were believed to have heard the incident discussed in Brown's presence." - Is this to mean the others actually heard the gun shots or had heard about the incident? And/or stayed stum because Brown was present when Moorhouse questioned them?
 * It isn't clear exactly what they knew or had overheard, I think the implication is that they had heard Brown or his associates discuss the murders, so were potential witnesses.


 * "...Leandermin himself, who it appears was being detained at Guichen Bay..." - detained to be a witness or on something unrelated?
 * They don't say, I'm assuming it means he was being held by police as a witness


 * "...had apparently been "made away with". - are they suggesting he was sent away or killed?
 * Perhaps lured away out of the colony, but Foster et al. aren't clear about it.


 * Identities - it is baffling that victims were recorded as "unknown aboriginal natives". So not even the tribe from which they were missing was identified during the investigations? The only mention is towards end where Christina Smith mentions Wattatonga - do Foster et al mention a possible tribe?
 * It is, given Moorhouse had good experience of Aboriginal people. Foster et al. don't mention it except to note that Smith's witness said they were Wattatonga people.
 * Also if they weren't identified how were their genders and ages determined - is there anything in Foster et al re forensics on the collected bones?
 * No, but Moorhouse was a doctor, and wrist bone ossification measurements have been used to determine ages of deceased children for a long time.


 * Smith - There are three different Smith accounts - Clement, Elma, Christina - but they seem far enough apart to not be confused.
 * I agree, I did wonder if I should preface them all with the first name as well.


 * "In 1987, an elderly Aboriginal man from nearby Kingston relates a version..." - where is this from? ie did the man relate it directly to FH&N?
 * No, colleagues of theirs interviewed him, but the recording was lost and they are relying on the interviewer's notes.


 * Poss categories? (I don't yet understand if/where templates override cats). Aborigines in South Australia, Australian frontier wars, History of South Australia, Settlers of South Australia, Violence against Aboriginal Australians
 * added a few.

Thanks for your wonderful work on this sad story. JennyOz (talk) 03:22, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Btw List of massacres of Indigenous Australians says massacre occured 1849 in Mt Gambier region and clan was Buandig Wattatonga. Its ref links to Christina's digitized book.
 * Thanks for taking a look. Your feedback has been very helpful. I'm planning a trip to State Records this week to view a couple of the reports mentioned, which might clarify some of your queries. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:37, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

Hi Peacemaker - I just did a bit of a Trove search because I was curious about the point JennyOz raised about his appearance before the local magistrate, and found some curious results. There are a number of references to a John (?) Brown on trial for killing natives at Guichen Bay (though he is referred to as James in some of them), with what appears to be some form of Supreme Court appeal on 20 March 1849 against an earlier committal by a Captain Butler. Not sure what to make of this but thought I'd raise it here in case it's useful. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 07:09, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
 * It's interesting alright. I had a squiz at the April 1849 letter from Butler to Bagot on Friday and there is a mention in it of something being awry with the warrant of commitment for Brown, which is borne out by what you found. I s'pose that's one of the problems you can have when you make a military officer a magistrate... The issue of habeas corpus probably explains why he was granted bail when he first appeared in Adelaide. I'm hoping that two State Records files will shine some light, although I'll have to be very careful how I use anything gleaned from them. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:24, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
 * One more detail that might (or might not) be useful if this gets written up: Butler appears to have resigned his judicial commission within a fortnight of that Supreme Court appeal. Still failed to confirm exactly who his counsel "Mr. Fisher" was. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 11:44, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I think the latter refers to another magistrate having resigned his commission (brother-chip?), and the anonymous writer advises Butler to do the same. I don't think it refers to Butler himself having resigned. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:21, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I see elsewhere on Trove that the application for bail for Brown was agreed to by the Advocate General on the basis of no action being taken against Butler for inconsistencies in Brown's warrant of committal. Not sure how much of this should be included in the article... Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:16, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Hi again Peacemaker67, Re the settler hanged for killing an aboriginal - this fellow...? Per List of people legally executed in Australia - "Thomas Donnelly – Hanged outside Adelaide Gaol for the murder of Kingberrie at Rivoli Bay – 24 March 1847"

Here's a ref - (though "Monday morning" would make date 29 March not 24 as above.)

(I wasn't sure whether to add this here or on review page.) JennyOz (talk) 00:26, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks Jenny! By my calculation, 31 March 1847 was a Wednesday, so the execution was on Monday 29 March 1847. I've added the month and hanging and the location of the murder (also in the south east). Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:24, 25 October 2017 (UTC)