Talk:Disco/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

First Musical Reference To Disco?

I remember the Disco era and always thought of it in terms of the early 70s start period and hitting its peak in the later 70s. That all makes sense until you look at these lyrics form the Kinks "Dedicated Follower Of Fashion" from 1966: …Oh yes he is (oh yes he is), oh yes he is (oh yes he is). His world is built 'round DISCOTEQUES and parties. This pleasure-seeking individual always looks his best 'Cause he's a dedicated follower of fashion… — Preceding unsigned comment added by Warwren01 (talk • contribs) 18:51, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

The word "DISCOTEQUE" originated in France in the 1940's and 1950's and was commonly used to describe places with DJ played music in the U.S. and UK by the 1960's. The Disco music genre which this article is about started later as documented in the article. Disco music was named because the music was designed for DISCOTEQUE's/disco's. Edkollin (talk) 02:18, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Jimmy Saville claims to have organised the first "disc only night" disc'o' in 1943/44 in Leeds [2] [3], where he played 78's of the big bands of the time. MBorrill (talk) 20:57, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

This article is hardly neutral

Why are there so many quotes and pespectives from a punk perspective about an article on disco, when the material on disco reads like a litany of meaningless facts and song placement. It would seem an article on disco would have more personal anecdotes and quotes from the people in the disco scene rather than perspectives from the punk scene. Is this a article on disco or how disco is/was perceived, namely by people who werent even born yet and insist punk has some, or really any kind, of current cultural relevance, which everyone knows it doesnt. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Redneckriverdude (talk • contribs) 05:35, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I left the "punk subculture" backlash material in as unlike a lot of the material in the section and the article as a whole it was reliably sourced. I do have to question the weight given to it as it was a insignificant part of the US music scene during this era Edkollin (talk) 18:04, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

The "Chart Topping Songs","1978-1980 Pop Preeminence" and "Resurgence" sections are hard to read as they are basically lists. These could be covered in a list article(s). This section should read something like "Disco accounted for 60% of the number 1 songs during", "The Bee Gees had 10 number 1 songs 25 in the charts overall", Donna Summer etc".(The figures are not accurate but put in to make my point) Edkollin (talk) 15:18, 10 October 2009 (UTC) Edkollin (talk) 18:04, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Disco was more influential on New Wave than on Post-punk —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rivet138 (talk • contribs) 22:32, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Then find reliable sources for that claim and create a big section for New Wave otherwise it is just original research.Edkollin (talk) 05:17, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the sentiment at the top of this section. A lot of the sources are from people linked to disco's contemporary musical competitors, suggesting bias. More research needs to be done--including citing more sources from inside the movement--to properly characterize disco. In particular, the reasons given for its decline, and their sources, make that section look like a sociopolitical assessment rather than a musical assessment. I urge editors (besides me) to come up with sources having alternate points of view on disco and its decline. All in all, it makes you wonder who created this article in the first place; it's a good article, but it sounds like it was written by someone who didn't "get it". (I'm not personally a disco fan, but then it's not like a "musically foreign" style to me.)RobertGustafson (talk) 13:55, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Cleanup

Additional citations

Why and where does this article need additional citations for verification? What references does it need and how should they be added? Hyacinth (talk) 00:58, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Example farm

Why and where does this article include excessive, poor or irrelevant examples? Which should be removed and why? Hyacinth (talk) 01:01, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Additional Citations: In an article that complies with Wikipedia guidelines everything written must be reliably sourced. In this article there are whole paragraphs that are not sourced and whole sections where only a sentence or two is sourced.

Excessive, poor or irreverent examples: I do not think there are many poor or irreverent examples but there is an extremely excessive amount of examples making it difficult to read because section after section is an endless lists of songs (with no reliable sources claiming they are disco). This is an article about the disco genre. This is not supposed to be an listing article. We have such an article. Examples should be just there to demonstrate a concept and in this case the examples should limited to a few notable/prominent/influential songs that demonstrate a concept.

In this genre article about New Wave in the Overview section notice how 3-6 examples are used to demonstrate subgenres such as ska and power pop. Notice how the article is in the overview section discussing "New Wave Music" not just listing New Wave songs. Notice how every sentence is sourced sometimes twice. Notice how in this genre article about synthpop recently designated as a Wikipedia "Good Article" again a limited amount of prominent examples are used to demonstrate concepts and everything is sourced.

There are decent sections here, Early History, Influence on other music (needs some more sources). But the middle part the chart topping songs need to be erased and rewritten to something like "40% of the songs in 1975 were disco, the top sellers were" etc. Edkollin (talk) 22:09, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Regarding the "no reliable sources claiming they are disco": Must every single song have somebody designating its style as such? (What about, say, "Disco Inferno"?) I think what constitutes disco depends on the music style and not on personal authority. Most of the songs listed were played in disco clubs and were listed on the "disco music" charts, even if those charts aren't explicitly referenced. See the "Michael Jackson" talk-section for more on this. (I know that "common sense" is anything but; however, most Wikipedia articles--even the very good ones--don't source what is obvious to most readers. I tell you, if we insisted on rigid absolute compliance with Wikipedia's rules in every instance, hardly a single article therein would pass muster.) RobertGustafson (talk) 18:27, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes absolutely every song listed should be reliably sourced as disco. As I said earlier this blanket laundry list of songs instead of most significant groups/songs is the wrong way to go but while I can't speak for every article but most of the songs listed here here probably do have reliable sources listing them as disco and these sources can be found with minimal research because they are "obvious" (Hate to break it to you because I have to break to myself but since unlike us most editors readers were born after disco it is probably not obvious). Edkollin (talk) 06:11, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Revisions

I don't have time to go point by point but my basic view remains he same I agree with a lot of your points and respect your knowledge of the subject but have a problem with your what I think are your (and a lot of other editors of this article) over relaxed view of the rules.

"I advise that if you find a questionable addition, don't do a blanket revert--throwing out good with bad--but instead remove or fix the SPECIFIC questionable additions." OK but on the other hand you found questionable parts of the the article and did not make surgical changes but massive unsourced additions/revisions covering several sections of the article. It is up to the editor who adds material to find sources for it. An editor who finds unsourced originally research material has several required options 1. Give a citation or other warnings. I have done that by putting the warning for the entire article for specific parts of the article. These warnings have been ignored. 2. Deleted the unsourced/original researched material. 3. Do the job the other editor was supposed to do and try and find sources. If sources are found add the sources, if they are not warn or delete. I have done that also. Usually I add a warning, and a lot of time I will do the job the other editor should have done because while most unsourced/original researched additions I deal with turn out not to have reliable sources for their claims, once in awhile the addition is sourced and is a valuable addition to the article. For a massive revision like yours it is impractical for me since I have a life and it is frankly unfair to expect me or any editor to spend hours it requires to use option 2 or 3. And the overall state of the article is poor. WP:CHALLENGE Edkollin(talk) 07:11, 11 March 2012 (UTC).

Causation in the lede. That was not my addition. While you are right in wanting that out but it was for the wrong reason. The correct reason is are there there are no sources for that claim.

MTV documentary. You can use the documentary itself as a source. While hyperlinks are preferable they are not required.

Punk: Cut down yes, delete no. Sources do consistently mention it but it is the not the dominant theme. (My Point of View Punk a lot of times is given undue weight when discussing that era because of importance since the late 70's. In the late 70's in the US it was a very minor phenomenon).

As for the reasons for the backlash a lot of them are in the section or in the sources used in that section. The music industry losing money, view that disco fans were vapid and elitist, that the sound was overproduced and synthetic, rock stars "selling" out. See cite numbers 35,38,44.And they do note that DDN was important to the temporary demise of disco so this has to be noted in the article. Not cited so not in the article are overkill which inevitably lowers the quality of the sound and makes people sick of it.

Personal Note: I wrote something about going to blogs which might at first glance seem insulting or flippant but was written seriously. While you can not follow every rule and you certainly don't have to like them, you should make a reasonable effort to follow and respect them. You did that much better this time around still see "I know" "I think" as reasoning for revisions. Is Wikipedia the place for you? With your knowledge and writing skills I hope so as you can turn this article around. If not maybe I will be citing your article someday.

I will leave your revisions alone for a few weeks and see what you come up with. This does not mean I won't delete others unsourced additions Edkollin (talk) 09:13, 11 March 2012 (UTC))

Did rassism play a role in anti-disco movement?

Did rassism play a role in the anti-disco movement? Because many disco artist were black. So they were excluded from white society and went back to the ghetto to create Hip-Hop. And nowadays R&B is king of music. But, I am not an American historian to know all this for sure. Still the anti-disco movement looks very white and very strange, too! Like a KKK event. Anyway, the message of disco was love and tolerance, the message of punk is rage and hatred, for sure. --178.197.234.47 (talk) 04:07, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

As noted in the article it believed by many reliable sources that racism and homophobia played a large part in the late 1970s anti disco backlash. Punk as rage and hatred is an extreame oversimplification. There were and are nazi hate punk rock but a lot of punk has been anti racist. As noted in the article many punk acts and fans that disliked disco loved raggae music and culture. Edkollin (talk) 03:04, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Trust me, 'Disco is Dead' had nothing to do with the KKK. At the time there was a widespread reaction to what was seen as the excesses of the Jimmy Carter years, 912 deaths at Jim Jonestown, and shock at movies like Car Wash and the Warriors etc that to most people seemed to depict a country falling apart. The moral backlash led to the overwhelming Reagan landslide, but the real truth is in the 1980s everybody got along better on all sides. I think it was Hillary beginning in 1993 who decided, enough of everyone getting along, let's polarize and seriously egg one group on against another group. 71.246.152.92 (talk) 07:20, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Car Wash ??????? Edkollin (talk) 09:34, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Reliable Source

There seem to be lack of understanding of what that means so I will quote a portion of WP:RELY:

Articles should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy.

Cluttering articles (expanding them by entire paragraphs) with your favorite TV show doesn't qualify. Loginnigol (talk) 06:48, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

BBC is a reliable source. The "show" I assume you are talking about was a documentary that where key players and independent third party sources were interviewed. You are taking "published" way to literally if you think only sources where written word is used is allowable. I am not an expert on British law but I assume when a the BBC broadcasts a program is considered the same or similar as written "published" material on their website or legally similar. Outside of legalities I absolutely fail to to see how written material where key players and third party sources is more reliable then where the same thing is done on video. Please clue me in. Edkollin (talk) 09:30, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Last time I checked this is not some domestic UK-centric article so I'm not sure what "British law" has got to do with anything. Nor am I interested in judging the quality of yours or anyone else's favorite TV show, cause none of that concerns what this article (esp. whole paragraph full of multiple sentences) should be based on: reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy, as per WP:RELY. Loginnigol (talk) 10:42, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Please stop denigrating each others contributions, and focus on improving the article.

In my opinion, a documentary aired by the BBC may be a reliable source. Is it significant enough to have its own article? Write it, then cite it.

On the other hand.. well, I'm sure contributors to this talk-page are well aware of the Stonewall riots. Stonewall predated Disco by a number of years. In my opinion, this reversion was appropriate. The reverted version included general background information that was already adequately presented in the article.

Pete aka --Shirt58 (talk) 11:25, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

That's what I'm doing Shirt58, I'm trying to improve the article. Hence paragraphs should be based on sources that are reliable according to (not editors opinion but) WP:RELY. And that means, I quote: reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. Loginnigol (talk) 15:29, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

A TV documentary with editorial review is pretty clearly an example of a WP:RS, and would be just as good as print for a Wikipedia article. Consider the recently world-famous article Pierre-sur-Haute military radio station, whose main source is a TV documentary - that was a sufficiently reliable source for the Wikimedia Foundation to tell the French DCRI to go away when they wanted the article deleted as a security violation - David Gerard (talk) 18:39, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

I would say a BBC television program making drastic claims of this sort is not reliable for our purposes; if the information is valid, you should be able to find it in some other better source somewhere. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 19:43, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

This is plausible, but you'd need a competing and clearly better source to fit Wikipedia sourcing rules. TV documentaries are fully within WP:RS. A documentary could of course suck, but if one is going to challenge a source in this manner one actually needs a superior one to hand - David Gerard (talk) 20:11, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

No, I don't think anyone is required to come up with a source (saying what?) when all you've got is one dubious television source making extraordinary claims wrt "Disco music" that aren't found anywhere else, or in any of the literature on the subject of Disco. But you could ask at the Reliable sources noticeboard to get more opinions from editors who are used to dealing with these sort of questions. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 20:22, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

The paragraph in question that was deleted doesn't even make it very clear what the connection to Disco music is, apart from being mentioned in a TV program called "The Joy of Disco". This leaves the reader trying to figure out what it is doing there in an article about Disco. It seems like gratuitous preaching that is hardly even tangential to the topic, which might be BBC's style, but shouldn't be ours. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 20:34, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Mmm. I was referring more to the general claim that TV documentaries can't be WP:RSes, which is just silly - David Gerard (talk) 20:39, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

^Well I suppose there could be circumstances when a TV program might be WP:RS, like for example when the program itself becomes part of the story and "enters" the article narrative (as was the case in the editorial review example you provided). But that is clearly not the case here in this article. Another difference between the French case and this is that the "Joy of Disco" is a BBC entertainment/arts program, not a BBC news or Panorama or other investigative journalism stuff. By the way the Wiki reviewers would have to be all British in order to legally examine the evidence as the show isn't even legally viewable outside of the UK (the link that someone provided above is geo-blocked - just as other BBC entertainment productions). Loginnigol (talk) 23:33, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

We do not have a Wikipedia article for most published articles used as sources and I fail to see why having a Wikipedia article is a necessity for a source to be reliable considering Wikipedia articles themselves are not considered reliable sources. The claims maybe are as drastic as you think they are but they were made by the people the documentary interviewed and is pretty clear they felt the changed social atmosphere helped them create the disco scene. And I do not find those claims dissimilar from the written sources we use are claiming.

But in thinking about it you are generally correct in that this article is to long and times unreadable. One issue is that the article at times resembles a list of disco songs then an article about disco. Another issue is that the article is trying to be both about disco as a genre and the disco for lack of a better word subculture and mainstream reaction to it. My paragraph would not belong to article about the disco music genre but (assuming it it reliable for the moment) but would be useful as a background section for an article about the scene/culture surrounding it. We have separate articles for punk and punk subculture same with emo so that split should probably be done here. Edkollin (talk) 02:21, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. By the way that is a common problem on Wikipedia's musical pages. Too many hacks sneaking in and adding their song, their artist, their band, their DJ... etc etc. Typical. Loginnigol (talk) 19:19, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Great find on the origins of the word. Added a section for it here for now. Have not had time to split article up. Edkollin (talk) 01:45, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

The section on disco fashion is too short and too general. In 1978-79 there were major changes to fashion, shirt collars got small, ties and lapels got narrow, and in a very short period of time the look shown in Saturday Night Fever was very dated. Also, in many of the trendiest clubs, very casual clothes (e.g. jeans) were allowed as long as they were very trendy. In New York the store Fiorucc featured such things as very high priced (for the time) dark denim jeans, leather jeans, and men's shirts with small button down collars but in bright stripes and prints; also such of-the-moment items as double wrap belts, retro looking sneakers, and a kind of disco version of the cowboy look, very popular in the last year and a half of the 70's. Like disco music, the fashion evolved and 1978 and 1979 were noticeably different from the earlier years. Women continued to wear dresses, usually with long skirts and often with vests and gathered seams in 78-79 though they too wore trendy jeans, often with high heeled shoes, typically open sandals but later in the form of pumps.

"Blurred Lines"

I never thought of that as a disco song, and to my ears, it is not, whereas "Get Lucky" clearly is. What style elements of disco does it have, other than repetitiveness? Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:12, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

1970s chronology

In the United States, there were some pre-1974 precursors, and some disco-sounding records charted in 1974, but the great majority of the general population (outside a few urban neighborhoods) did not become aware of "disco" as a distinct musical style and social scene under that name until at least 1975 when "The Hustle" charted -- and of course disco's biggest mainstream success didn't occur until Saturday Night Fever in 1977/1978... AnonMoos (talk) 07:56, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

Abba

Abba was not a disco group. They were a pop group that latched on to a disco by producing and performing about 5 disco songs. They jumped on the bandwagon like many other people did. At the height of Disco they sang songs like Take A Chance on Me, The Name of the Game, Fernando, Chiquitita, Eagle. They were not Disco songs — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:7:8500:982:895E:FA76:8104:45BB (talk) 05:49, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Death Metal Influence?

Disco developed in the early 70s to 80s, with funk and psychadelic rock becoming more dance-able, while fusing with soul. A genre-defining prime example of said fusion is James Brown's "The Payback," 1973. Also, disco became more pop-oriented when artists such as Michael Jackson (on "Off the Wall") and ABBA became mainstream. Death metal developed in the late 80s (long after disco's heyday, mind you) with aggressive thrash metal and the first wave of black metal, and even some grindcore; a good example of the thin line between thrash and death metal at the time was Death's "Scream Bloody Gore," 1987, erstwhile defining the genre with albums like "Butchered at Birth," Cannibal Corpse, 1991, and "Covenant," Morbid Angel, 1993. Disco and Death Metal are EXTREMELY far away from each other musically, the sole similarity being that they both were bore from rock music. However, on the wiki page for disco, it says that one of disco's main influences was death metal. This is not right, and one may know this from reason alone; hence, without living during the development of the two genres. Had the editor been a wise and intelligent man (such is the type of the author of this passage) then he would have known this primarily. Henceforth, the editor was not using reason to any extent -- said influence should be deleted from the original article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.44.134.78 (talk) 21:59, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

refs in lead section

These have been removed as per MOS:LEAD. This section is intended as a summary of the main body of text and is usually not referenced (as all material is dealt with in the main article). References removed include:

References

References

Catfish Jim and the soapdish 10:34, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Disco is gay music?

This article stands very strange position about Disco origins. I guess music is made by musicians, so if 99% of proto-disco musicians were gay, disco should be a gay music for gays & the whole organisation. Sly and The Family Stone, Isaac Hayes, Willie Hutch, MFSB, Jerry Butler, Jimi Hendrix, Manu Dibango, Harold Melvin, Bee Gees (well...), etc = not gay (I have some fine references If you want). This is just strange, gays made a musical genre, but they're NOT gays? RockandDiscoFanCZ (talk) 19:48, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure what you mean. But from my own understanding, disco music started as a sort of blend of musical genres that were fashionable to gay, black and Latino communities. Many of the earliest adopters were gay, but not all of them were. So yeah, it's gay music, partially. It appealed to multiple groups. - Gilgamesh (talk) 20:33, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Wow, that was fast! It makes sense, yes... + hippie communities to be correct. Thank you for answering my question. RockandDiscoFanCZ (talk) 20:52, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Merry Christmas. That is why the language about "clubs that catered to" is used. Edkollin (talk) 00:57, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, merry christmas to you too. Yeah, it's (also) about culture not music (so disco is not black/gay/hispanic/hippie music, disco is just music for everyone). RockandDiscoFanCZ (talk) 15:22, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

I note the complete absence of any reference to one of the MOST emblematic groups, the Village People and YMCA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Baron D. Z. (talk • contribs) 03:23, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

I would think Sylvester who is also not mentioned is emblematic. Will add them just not sure where ATM. Here is a source for both acts as emblematic [4] Edkollin (talk) 07:05, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

The most successful duo in the history of disco music was also omitted: the Pet Shop Boys. However, the article gives relevance to one-hot wonders such as Freeez.

Why isn't Sylvester, the Queen of Disco, mentioned? Very important figure, no? Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:13, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

dance-punk wrong

the description of dance-punk in this article wrong — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.120.194.67 (talk) 04:02, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Early UK punks quite liked disco!

It is an oversimplification to say that Punk, particularly in the United Kingdom, was hostile to disco. Many early Sex Pistols fans in the UK such as the Bromley Contingent and Jordan quite liked disco, which was why nightclubs such as Louise's in Soho and later the Sombrero in Kensignton because frequent hangouts for the early Sex Pistols crowd. The track Love Hangover by Diana Ross (the house anthem at Louise's) was cited as a particular favourite by many early Punks. I think that qualifiers should be put into the references to punk antipathy to reflect this properly. 62.190.148.115 (talk) 12:23, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

 Done 2.26.165.18 (talk) 20:04, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

Reverting my edits

Hi everybody wikifellows, my name is Saiyuki4ever and I edited this page in these days, but I had my edits reverted in the last hours, even those which were not betterings but corrections also of links.... I pray you of not to revert anymore my edits because if I make these edits is only in the English Wikipedia exclusive interests, not mine. I wish you all a good surfing on the Internet.

                                                                                                                 Saiyuki4ever Saiyuki4ever (talk) 22:55, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

a "four-on-the-floor" beat, an eighth note (quaver) or 16th note (semi-quaver) hi-hat pattern with an open hi-hat on the off-beat, and a prominent, syncopated electric bass line

Yes, sure. But thus is just how you play I Feel Love, oh no, it's Don't Leave Me This Way. That's the best one .88.111.238.175 (talk) 10:39, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

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Unsourced content on DJs relocated here

Hi all. An editor added the following DJs and said they were important disco DJs. No sources or references. As per WP guidelines and policies, it is the responsibility of the editor who adds content to provide a reliable source. Until we have a reliable source, imho these names should stay on talk page. There have been hoaxes on Wikipedia before, where editors, for fun, add in fake names/friend's names etc. Wikipedia is an an encyclopedia, and readers should be able to rely on what they read here. Here are the added names....if a WP:Reliable source indicates that they are important disco DJs we can put them back:

• Neil "Raz" Rasmussen & Mike Pace of L'amour Disco in Brooklyn, Preston Powell of Magique, Jennie Costa of Lemontrees, Tee Scott, Tony Smith of Xenon, John Luongo, Robert Ouimet of the LimelightOnBeyondZebrax • TALK 13:04, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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Disco music in the post-disco era

A list of possible disco music in the post-disco era not mentioned in the article. What does everyone think? I admit some are more disco influenced and not disco music per se.

• B.o.B "Not For Long" ft. Trey Songz
• Bootsy Collins "Play with Bootsy" ft. Kelli Ali
• Michael Jackson "Another Part of Me"
• Snoop Dogg "Signs" ft. Charlie Wilson and Justin Timberlake
• Snoop Dogg "Beautiful" ft. Pharrell Williams
• Daft Punk "Lose Yourself to Dance"
• Selena Quintanilla-Perez "Last Dance/The Hustle/On the Radio"
• George Michael "Amazing"
• George Michael "Fastlove"
• Dr. Hollywood "We Run LA" Ft. Ya Boy
• The Weeknd "I Feel It Coming" ft. Daft Punk
• Jennifer Lopez "Waiting For Tonight"
• Corona "Rhythm of the Night"
• Chris Brown "Forever"
• Ne-Yo "Because of You"
• Kylie Minogue "Can't Get You Out Of My Head"
• Bruno Mars "24K Magic"
• Justin Timberlake "Rock Your Body"
• Daft Punk "Around the World"

Aamma58 (talk) 11:57, 16 December 2017 (UTC)Aamma58

Unstubstantiated...

This article is odd. What on earth are all those other genres doing in this section? Surely the "Soul" section should contain Disco under that logic as it is the main inspiration for the music? This is clearly written by Disco fans - and lacks objectivity.

(81.131.156.109 (talk) 17:52, 1 February 2018 (UTC))

Sylvester

Sylvester was known as the "Queen of Disco." Don't you think Sylvester was an important figure in disco who should be mentioned in this article? I wouldn't be the best one to add this coverage, but the Wikipedia article about the singer that I linked above provides some content that could be quoted or summarized. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:20, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

 Done Ikan Kekek ABF99 (talk) 01:26, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:46, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Hi, my name is Saiyuki4ever, and I've read your suggestion: in my humble opinion Sylvester was certainly an important Disco artist, but I don't know if you could compare him to other artists and bands who have made a lot of famous disco hits and that we remember them for more than a disco song, unlike this singer. Waiting your answers, I wish you all a good surfing on Wikipedia

                                                                                                          Saiyuki4ever Saiyuki4ever (talk) 14:11, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Read the article I linked about him. Then if you still have these thoughts, make specific arguments for why his music, life and sexuality weren't significant. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:31, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Reverts

I made two reverts in the original from LGBT back to Gay and I deleted hippie as an influence altogether

LBGT. First of all LBGT was a term that did not exist in the early 1970's. While there might have been lesbians and bisexuals involved in the formation of disco music the primary homosexual demographic involved in the formation of disco music and culture were gay men. The fact the lesbians are people also is completely irreverent.

Hippies - The Hippie encyclopedia used as their primary source the Wikipedia article on hippies. Using Wikipedia as a source is not allowed. On the merit the claim of hippie is very questionable. Sly and The Family Stone were a hippie band that was very important in the formation of disco music. Beyond that there is really no other hippie group that comes immediately to mind. Hippies are primarily associated with rock music not disco. Ex hippies were heavily involved in the backlash against disco music. Hippies were dress down disco was dress up. Edkollin (talk) 01:35, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Are you joking, or what? ("The fact the lesbians are people also is completely irreverent") w-wait.. lesbians are people too, aren't they? :D or do you mean they're aliens? Seriously, I think you're so wrong. Hippies HAD great impact on emerging Disco music (at the time it was "proto disco" music) so do all of LGBT people - transgenders, lesbians, gay, bisexuals - all of these people had influence on proto disco, not only gay men, you're so selfish.. oh no no no.. don't think about it.. this isn't some kind of "personal attack" stuff, you know. What is Psychedelia at all? Culture of hippies. Yeah, I get it, so do you?! Oh, by the way term Disco did not exist, since the year 1973.. so do term "LGBT", as you said, but this is the year 2009 and we have write this article of 2009-point-of-view (or somewhat that), am I right? ☆ RockandDiscoFanCZ (talk) 12:45, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

In the big scheme of things of course it is important that lesbians are people to. But the fact that lesbians are people to is irrelevant to THIS ARTICLE. The only thing that matters for THIS ARTICLE is their role in the formation of disco music. So you have to prove with reliable sourcing that lesbians and hippies had an important role in the formation of disco music or culture. Otherwise it is just your opinion or original research and it can not go in the article. Edkollin (talk) 20:25, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

OK. Hippie sources: [12], [13]. What I found: Electric Circus (nightclub) - this influential discotheque had also great impact on rising disco music on late 1960s.. and the big thing.. it was a "hippie discotheque", so 1:0 for hippies. Why you anyway want to delete that hippie origins? You hate hippies, or what? And why you defend "gay" origins, although proto-disco was only played on that gay discotheques (and I guess it wasn't only gay males who had discotheques, also shemale discotheques, bisexual discotheques, lesbians discotheques.. and many others.. but I can't found any sources by now, *sob*.. ah life sucks), I mean.. they're just putting that records on, that's all. Proto-disco artists were heterosexual, at all (soul artists, girl groups, pop/rock artists, psychedelic artists). So when I will listen to Kazaschstan music, I will officially had an impact on Kazaschstan music, ha ha, and it will have a label: "RockandDiscoFanCZ" and many other listeners also created this kind of music, but I'm so irrelevant right now (just like lesbians on this article). RockandDiscoFanCZ (talk) 23:35, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

The statement in the Electric Circus article claiming influence on disco culture is not sourced. It is a poor article because the the material not sourced or uses poor sources. But lets assume that your claim is true. That is one club that catered to hippies that was influential. You can not make a claim that the hippie movement as a whole was influential. There were dozens then hundreds of black and gay proto disco clubs so making a general statement of black and gay influence is accurate, making it about hippies is not. You claim there were shemales etc in the audience but again have you no sources for that claim. What I do know is that the multiple sources we do have including ""Out in Culture: Gay, Lesbian and Queer Essays on Popular Culture" all use the word gay not LBGT and not hippie.

Your have a serious but understandable misunderstanding of how Wikipedia articles should be written. We do not print things because they are true, we do not print things because it seems to make sense (Its a gay club there must have been shemales, lesbians etc in them).and we do not assume other editors are doing things for negative reasons like prejudice. We print material only because they are verified by reliable sources.

You need to read and understand these basic Wikipedia policies Wikipedia:Verifiability,Wikipedia:No original research,Wikipedia:Reliable sources,Wikipedia:Assume good faith. After that find a good source for the Electric Circus claim add a line about the club and its influence. Same thing with the broad LGBT. But if you can not find these sources you can't change the article.

I know I have been a bit harsh or forceful here and I am sorry it had to be that way. When I started editing here I made many of the same mistakes and poor assumptions that you are making I had to be "corrected" more then a few times. Truth be told sometimes I still have to be corrected, so I get it. Wikipedia policies are onerous. Peace and have a good weekend Edkollin (talk) 07:33, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and what about now? Look .. Electric Circus (nightclub) nah, forget it. Yo Homes.. To Bel-Air Seriously,

it seems to me, that we don't understand each other. I say: "look at sources 12, 13". Here it is, just for you: http://www.wwnorton.com/college/music/rockhistory/outlines/ch09.htm , http://www.discomusic.com/clubs-more/6363_0_6_0_C/ , http://www.villagevoice.com/2001-07-10/news/disco-double-take/2 (last one just refers to "hippie pulse" on that disco music), and please don't remove hippies. If you don't like it, so why don't you just put "citation needed" tag next to the hippie word?

My english "communication" skills are limited in this cause so I will not answer all of your "questions" and claims, but I think that gay and hippie sources are so balanced, just look:

• ^ a b (2007) The 1970s, ISBN 9780313339196, p.203–204:
• ^ (1995) Out in Culture: Gay, Lesbian and Queer Essays on Popular Culture, ISBN 9780304334889,
• ^ (1998) "The Cambridge History of American Music", ISBN 0521454298

three gay references.

and hippies have villagevoice.com, discomusic.com and wwnorton.com.. seems solid. Finally, hippies have website references and gay have book references.

BTW 2. Source No. 5 says: "and the scene's combination of overwhelming sound, trippy lighting, and hallucinogens was indebted to the late-'60s psychedelic culture". Sounds familiar, 'cause.. you know.. psychedelic culture is linked with hippies as well as hippie culture (= psychedelic culture is the same) is linked with (co-)creation of Disco music (and also culture with so trippy and groovy scene.. and rainbows, because gays created disco too).

BTW 3 .. oh don't forget about Psychedelic soul (you know Hippie proto-disco artists - include your Sly & The Family stone.. or somewhat that), this kind of music was also influenced disco music [5].

So, whats now? RockandDiscoFanCZ (talk) 18:01, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

The Village Voice reference is not a small one man but an excellent one. Simon Reynolds is a major music journalist. I changed "hippie" to psychedelic because that is mostly what was being discussed. Psychedelic culture was a part or a sub genre of the hippie culture. It did not define the culture as a whole. There were hippies that were not into psychedelic music and clothing. Some were into folk music, others Indian music, and many dressed down and very un psychedelic (See photographs of the crowd at Woodstock). And there was a large "back to the earth" or rural element to it that was the opposite of disco's urban roots. I added a bit of detail from the article in the early history. I even used the word hippie there. Allmusic was also a good reference. Many Wikipedia articles and Billboard use them. I added another early history line based on that cite. Another "hippie" thing you should look at is the free love movement for its influence. Edkollin (talk) 15:22, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

I see. Compromise.. also you're right! However "hippie culture" is the same as "psychedelic culture" (or subgenre if we say it correctly), but that's just point-of-view conflict, you know ;). P.S. but wasn't hippie "free love" a big contrast to disco subculture?.. you know.. hippie culture was full of drugs and love, but disco culture was full of drugs and sex. I mean.. it was not some kind of "save the world" campaign, many weird religious orthodox people call it "time of sodom", because of its wild parties on nightclubs and discothèques. | And thanks for hippies stuff adding to the disco article. RockandDiscoFanCZ (talk) 22:05, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Point of View I don't think the hippie idea of disco sex was a "big contrast" to hippie "free love" but an evolvement. It all was casual sex. Be that as it may it is great when the talk pages work as they are supposed to. Edkollin (talk) 20:29, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Maybe. I just hear about "free love" movement, but I really don't know what is "free love" movement about. Yes, finally the talk pages are not useless. RockandDiscoFanCZ (talk) 20:05, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Free love Edkollin (talk) 07:14, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Considering I added "gay" to the first sentence, I'm ambivalent as to whether "gay" or "LGBT" is used. If disco was primarily just a gay male thing, then yeah, "LGBT" doesn't really apply because it overrepresents the demographic. But if it does, then I don't think it really matters whether "LGBT" is used or not, even if the term didn't exist in the early 1970s. Lexicon changes with time, and "LGBT" can be a translative term for what term was otherwise used (but possibly may or may not ever be used anymore) in the past. - Gilgamesh (talk) 02:27, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Discos like Paradise Garage named in this article where almost exclusively gay male spaces. The contributions of a few female DJ's in the post disco era should be noted for their musical vocabulary includes the genre of disco music. Sharon White and Susan Morabito would be two such DJ's. The former at The Saint, the club that followed Paradise Garage and Flamingo East, and the latter for the Saint at Large. By 1990 the full spectrum of LGBT was part of the scene when such nights occurred but that falls outside of the scope of this article. Gay is the proper term to use, and it has been frequently used by many performers as the audience they sought and where inspired by.

Psychedelic culture refers more to acid than ecstasy and ketamine but is more appropriate than Hippie culture if one must include tangential information. I think the section on drugs in general here does make psychedelic possibly a bit more appropriate as would the large contribution of lighting systems to enhance the experience.

Full disclosure, I am a gay man and I learned the Hustle and Bus Stop as a teenager one week at the Concorde Hotel. I have danced at most of Manhattan's disco/techno/house clubs that where open from 1986 through 2006 and a few since then. My trans sister has not. My lesbian friends have, but their number is hardly representative of the entire lesbian community, just as many straight women could be found on any given night. Two straight women were invited to the opening night of The Saint. No lesbians were present to my knowledge on that evening in 1980. The Saint could be considered the last real disco to open. These are just my observations but if you reach out to Micheal Musto of Village Voice fame, I believe he can confirm all of the above. Mrphilip (talk) 00:23, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Revisions I've made (and suggestions)

Re: Pop pre-eminence

I've included more detail about "crossover appeal" with non-disco artists and music fans. Also, I've created more sectional sub-division--especially with the "Pop pre-eminence" and "Backlash and decline" sections--for additional clarity. Finally, I've made a section out of the dubious paragraph about the "gay commentary" of disco, ala Village People, and moved it into the "Disco clubs and culture" section. It really doesn't belong in the "Pop pre-eminence" part.RobertGustafson (talk) 11:36, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Re: Factors for disco's decline

I know that MTV--or one of its sister channels--did a documentary on the disco era, blaming the success of Saturday Night Fever for causing disco to be overexposed, thus causing people to tire of it. I can't recall the specific show; if someone can come up with it and add the reference (to the final paragraph of "Factors") that would be great. Personally, I find it much more credible to blame the music itself for its decline (styles fall in and out of favor) than politics and prejudice, and I don't think the non-musical factors should have such a disproportionate emphasis.

I also think that the case for disco's decline being traced to a specific July 1979 event is over-made. Disco was already falling out of favor in 1978--cf. The Who's "Sister Disco", which some see as a critique of disco,--and incorporating heavy disco elements into pop/rock songs continued to make hits even after "Disco Demolition Night"--cf. Pink Floyd's "Another Brick In The Wall, Part 2", a hit of late 1979 and early 1980, and J. Geils Band's "Come Back" in 1980 (although the latter is sorta more representative of the 1980s' post-disco dance music). If nothing else, the final paragraph of the "opening section" at the top of the article should be revised to put less emphasis on the DDN event and more on evolving musical tastes. (Indeed, the opening is kinda long and includes a lot of details better off saved for the body of the article.)

RobertGustafson (talk) 11:17, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Disco was massively successful in the charts in 1978 and the first part 1979 despite the backlash which was starting to grow but had not reached full fruition. The change in the charts after DDN is hard to ignore, there is no signs of lowering of popularity prior to DDN. If I was am fan of a genre and it has six of the top ten songs I would like that type of "decline". I also think you are confusing disco elements or disco influence with full out disco songs. The article does note strong post DDN influence (although it badly needs a synthpop subsection). I would argue that the post disco "dance music" like Laura Brannegan , and soundtrack to "Flashdance" had a lot of strings and the outward 4/4 "boom boom boom" taken out and it was speeded up as a nod to punk.

You are not off the mark that DDN was more of a tipping point that ended the disco era then the event itself. Another words if it was not DDN it would have been something else but it did happen that way it happened. But when pretty much every reliable history, people involved, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame "Decade of Saturday nights" etc thinks it's important we can't downgrade it's importance because it doesn't sound right. Besides the language in the lede does not directly say DDN "caused" the genres downfall.

As for over saturation of Saturday Night Fever that language was in this article for years, why it was taken out I do not know. Edkollin (talk) 03:08, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Must use reliable sources and go by what they say

See WP:RS

See Wikipedia:Verifiability

See WP:OR

Using Reliable Sources, verifiable not necessarily truth and no original research are the cornerstones of Wikipedia editing and you have gone against this. There are no citations used for your additions they seem to be based on what you "know" to be the truth. I get you are probably just editing by the article based on how others have edited this article. The "cornerstones" have been continuously been ignored here. That of course is not your fault but at the end of the day two wrongs do not make a right. As an editor seeing this situation I have several options ignore it, give a warning which I did on top of the article which I did months ago or delete the originally researched material which I did here.

I do not disapprove of what you are trying to do and you write well and are knowledgeable on the topic. I like the revised subsection headings but these rules have been put in place for a reason. To see a genre article that follows the rules look at this article.

By the way, whilethe backlash was growing after '77 disco's popularity was not declining but hitting its peak. As we noted in the article the week of the Disco Demolition night the top 6 songs were disco. During one week in February 78 9 of the top 10 songs were from Saturday Night Fever. Most a the Rock star "disco" songs were in 1978-79. Notice that even though I "know" this to be the truth I have not added it to the article and won't until a I find reliable sources claiming this.

Following the rules is slow, tedious and frustrating at times. Blogs message boards etc are much faster. Edkollin (talk) 01:03, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Valid point, but surgical fixes are better than blanket reverts

Edkollin: In doing your revert, you removed a lot of non-objectionable additions, including corrections on band and song names; sub-section divisions about crossover appeal, disco revisions, and parodies; and additional examples of crossover songs and anti-disco songs. I have restored everything EXCEPT for the alternate interpretation of disco's decline--which, yes, was unsourced and therefore questionable. Personally, I still stand by the fact that an MTV-family station documentary was made (if anyone can find it and reference it, great) attributing disco's decline to artistic rather than social factors. My personal memory of the disco's decline--which I lived through, although personal experience is inadmissable--is that it had more to do with evolving musical tastes than with politics and prejudice. Even though those latter explanations are sourced, they don't ring true. YOUR POINT IS TAKEN, THOUGH. I advise that if you find a questionable addition, don't do a blanket revert--throwing out good with bad--but instead remove or fix the SPECIFIC questionable additions. RobertGustafson (talk) 09:59, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

I might add that the contributions of The Jackson 5/The Jacksons/Michael Jackson are highly pertinent -- particularly their unique ability to survive and adapt in the 1980's. So is the influence of disco on groups like Pink Floyd, The Eagles, and the J. Geils Band -- and the first 2 groups' nods to disco ARE sourced. "Sister Disco"'s interpretation is on the page for The Who's Who Are You album (and I linked to the specific section therein), and as for Bob Seger "Old Time Rock and Roll" -- must I include its lyric, "Don't try to take me to a disco"? Finally, my original addition about disco's "overexposure" from Saturday Night Fever -- although not restored (and I still hope to find the show so I can source it) -- follows from the current end of "Factors", in which documented sources refer to "artistic reasons" for opposition to disco. I suggest that editors pick up on that thread and come up with specific examples (sourced, of course) of artistic reasons for musicans and fans to reject or tire of disco during the late '70's. That would create better balance to the article's explanation for disco's decline -- which currently and misleadingly (albeit with sources) suggests that disco somehow got a bum rap for primarily non-musical reasons. I don't dispute, "Verifiability, not truth" -- that just because something is true doesn't warrant inclusion, but consider the converse: Just because something IS sourced doesn't make it "accurate" enough to warrant inclusion, let alone emphasis. RobertGustafson (talk) 10:18, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

One more thing: The changes to the "Pop-preminence" section -- including the creation of subdivisions regarding crossover appeal, disco-ization of popular tunes, and paradies -- is simply, except for the addition of few additional examples of songs, a re-organization of pre-existing material. I intend to continue to make the case for the (otherwise very cursory) changes to this section and its "Rise to mainstream" predecessor. Edkollin, you were right about a few specific additions being questionable, but I prefer editing to reverting in order to remove questionable material, lest legitimate additions be thrown aside in the process. RobertGustafson (talk) 10:37, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Where, in the article lead-in, it says that the popularity of disco markedly declined "as a result of" the DDN event, I changed "as a result of" to "in the wake of". We can't clearly establish cause-and-effect between the two things. Corellation and causation are not the same thing. People don't stop listening to a certain kind of music simply because a disgruntled DJ stages a protest. The people staging the event were tapping into a pre-existing sentiment that had been building for some time. (Of course, I don't have sources to clearly establish that disco's decline was a gradual and ongoing thing that DDN merely straddled chronologically, but if and when I do, I will say so in the article. And, once again, I stress that more research has to be done into musical reasons for disco's fall.) RobertGustafson (talk) 11:11, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

I've edited the lead-in further, so that it only corellates the decline in radio airplay of disco with DDN, as there is no evidence that DDN specifically "caused" people to stop listening to disco and buying disco records -- what most would view as "popularity". [Airplay and popularity are different: Let's not forget that The Beatles' popularity was high in 1966, even as many radio stations deliberately avoided playing Beatles records in the wake of Lennon's Jesus faux paus -- ironically, proving John's point.] The first two sentences of the lead-in's final paragraph now read as follows:

"Disco music was a worldwide phenomenon, but in the United States, the popularity of disco declined in the late 1970's — particularly in 1979: on July 12 of that year, an anti-disco protest in Chicago called "Disco Demolition Night" had shown that an angry backlash against disco and its culture had emerged in the United States. In the subsequent months and years, many musical acts associated with disco struggled to get airplay on the radio. ..."

Note that I have NOT added any alternate explanations or interpretations for disco's decline; I have simply (grammatically) downgraded DDN's role in it to one of corellation, not causation. It preserves the essence of the original sentences without the specific linkage or assignment of blame. RobertGustafson (talk) 11:45, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

A few counter-points regarding content

Edkollin, I was already familiar with Wikipedia's policies regarding OR and sources, and I know that it is not necessarily necessary that a source be specifically cited in order to include something, provided that a source exists. I referred to an MTV documentary on the disco movement, and while I fault myself for not specifically mentioning "according to an MTV-related documentary" IN THE ARTICLE when attempting to talk musical reasons for disco's decline, the documentary was made, and anyone can look for it. I will attempt to find it, as it backs up most of what I said in the final paragraph of "Factors" that you removed by reversion. (I will not re-add its points, though, until I can find it.) In any case, what I originally added to "Factors" was not personal opinion or synthesis, and certainly wasn't intended as such. Once again, I suggest that if you find something objectionable, just remove or alter the objectionable text or section. Reverting the whole page sweeps away the grain with the chaff.

Also, I would have some advice for you, Edkollin. Since the "omniscient narrator" of a Wikipedia article is supposed to be objective, any editor should avoid asserting causality when there's merely a corellation--except when including a clear "according to this source" qualification. This is especially important when attributing "outside" causes to something--i.e., non-musical factors in a musical genre's decline. The original final paragraph of the lead-in asserts a specific cause-and-effect relationship between DDN and disco's overall decline in popularity as if it were an established, proven fact. While reliable sources are a necessary condition for asserting something, they are not a sufficient condition. (And while "truth" may not be sufficient, it is necessary.) And in Logic Class I learned never to accept anything on pure authority. I don't think enough research has been done to provide a balanced set of factors for the genre's fall from grace--especially when no artistic explanations are given. (What? A form of music becomes passe for almost entirely non-musical reasons?! See the talk section on "Decline" above for more.)

I personally may not be the right person to comment on the artistic and other non-social reasons behind it (in fact, disco is hardly my favorite subject, despite my attention to this article), but someone should delve into the artistic problems musicians and music fans had with disco. The article should not attribute, with an air of "objectivity", a single event in July 1979 to disco's wholesale fall--let alone have such an emphasis on non-musical factors without hard evidence as opposed to simply testimony of critics: i.e., Did requests for disco airplay or sales of disco records suddenly drop after July 1979? Did public opinion polls show a marked decline in support for disco soon after July 1979? Is there polling--or at least significant anecdotal testimony--of music fans giving political or "sociological" reasons for their not listening to or buying disco songs? Or do polls, sales, and requests on music in the late '70's show a more nuanced picture? (Research worth doing.)

RobertGustafson (talk) 13:15, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Re: Factors

I have revised "Factors" so that economic and political factors (source is preserved) are mentioned more obliquely and the mention of AIDS is removed. The major tanking of the Carter-era economy, the rise of Ronald Regan, and the becoming-public of AIDS all happened in 1980, after disco had starting tanking in a big way. Also, both ideas in the sentence cite the same source, so only one citation is needed. The opening sentence now reads:

Factors that have been cited as leading to the decline of disco in the United States include economic and political changes at the end of the 1970's as well as burnout from the hedonistic lifestyles led by participants.

I have also added that sentence to the following paragraph, and moved the last sentence or two of that (originally 2nd) paragraph, regarding the rock industry--along with Gloria Gaynor's theory (originally in the 1st)--to a separate paragraph at the end. The first two original paragraphs each lists both sociopolitical reasons and music-industry reason in the same paragraph; the music-industry specific stuff doesn't belong with the sociopolitical stuff. Note that I have merely rearranged (and slighly rephrased) things!RobertGustafson (talk) 19:25, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

I also think that the sentences, "Legs McNeil, founder of the fanzine Punk, was quoted in an interview as saying, "the hippies always wanted to be black. We were going, 'fuck the blues, fuck the black experience'." He also said that disco was the result of an unholy union between homosexuals and blacks.[45]" are overkill when it comes to listing the racist/homophobic aspects. It also puts too much emphasis on the punk perspective of disco. I haven't deleted it, though--yet. RobertGustafson (talk) 19:58, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

I understand the factors discussed here, but as a person Viola Wills called onto stage to dance with her, and who was asked to perform with Gloria Gaynor the following year, I have to say disco was not dead in 1979. It wasn't until the second half of the '90s that I met these women. The late Ms. Wills played a significant role on the Saturday night fever album. It could be argued that it was the movie which really signaled the end of this era. Nightclubs have always evolved with the times and usually are trend setting places. Much content is created for dance spaces including remixes that far exceed the normal radio edit. For a song to top the disco charts really was significant. Laura Branigan was one of the first live performers I saw in a nightclub and that wasn't until 1986, so did she perform in a disco? I would say yes. Barry White is another name not included here. Mrphilip (talk) 00:41, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Re: Hedonism: drug subculture and sexual promiscuity

I have removed "Hedonism" from the section title as the section deals specifically with drugs and sex, not hedonism in general. RobertGustafson (talk) 20:24, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Nomenclature used in article

Don't think the revisions are vandalism but more of a content dispute but going with "gay" is the for the best as that is the word the source used. Edkollin (talk) 21:32, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Continual revisions and refusal to explain is tendentious editing is a form of vandalism. Edkollin (talk) 22:31, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree; please leave it as "gay" unless sources can be cited to suggest otherwise. There's a cited source that specifically mentions gay males. Where is the source that refers to the wider LGBT population? LGBT is not a strict synonym for gay. More generally, this is underscoring the need for more rigorous sourcing and citations in this article. You all know the rules. Take the time to support your contentious edits with citations. —mjb (talk) 03:29, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Just watched the BBC documentary "Joy of Disco" . Hetrosexual Black male origins discussed, and Gay Males heavily discussed as reacting to the Stonewall Riots, female desire in mainstream pop as a result of the sexual revolution discussed, nothing with lesbians or LBGT discussed. Does not mean it did not happen but without reliable sources can not add it.

I am adding material from the documentary. Edkollin (talk) 20:29, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi there, Ed.

I see that you reverted my contribution to the article disco (rev. 540134647) over the claims of zero sources. You, however, correctly used the word "used" which is past tense and fear not, this is not a grammar lesson but a reminder that ideas presented in the sources are terminologically dated and that's why we should use the terms of the world of today. I'd suggest using the label "LGBT" instead of "gay" since the modern meaning of the word "gay" doesn't incorporate all aspects of LGBT community whether back in the '70s the "gay" was used for people of homosexual orientation and bisexuals, lesbians and transgenders alike thus using LGBT is imo right thing to do. We should not omit mentioning these people' communities because people of transgender, lesbian and bisexual orientation played a significant part on the development of disco music as well.

Sincerely, ItsAlwaysLupus (talk) 21:38, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Your argument would have more merit if the sources cited in the article for the beginning of disco were from the 1970s and 1980s. They were from 2005-2009 long after LBGT came into common usage. Still we need a reliable source(s) that other parts of the LBGT community besides gay males were instrumental in bringing disco into being. Edkollin (talk) 03:35, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Yeah but magnifying aforementioned influence of one marginal sub-group out of many while omitting LGBT's involvement as a whole is outright arbitrary and defamatory. If I am not mistaken, those white-trash folk thrown a homophobia tantrum at the Comiskey Park, Chicago event because they have had it with that lesbian/gay/Hispanic/Black music [Zeitz, J.] being tirelessly played in the radio all the time with no sign of people's choice hits like "The Truck Ain't Gonna Drive Itself" or "Don't Cry Prudence, I'm Just a Lonely Cowboy" ever appearing there or in the national charts. Also IIRC, bisexuals were lumped together with fellow LGT activists in the "gay" bin no matter whether they were genderfluid, pansexual, bi-curious or genderqueer in specification. Sincerely, ItsAlwaysLupus (talk) 09:02, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

The claims that the backlash was the result of racism and homophobia are written about in the backlash section of the article. It is possible the sources used in this section knew exactly what they were writing because homosexual males and blacks were the prime groups that brought disco into being. It is also possible they wrote "gay" and meant the wider group. Two Wikipedia editing cornerstones are No original research and what we write must be Verifiable. From what I see what is verifiable is that the sources used "gay". Using LBGT here because we think their use of the word "gay" is wrong or misleading would be original research. That is why I favor using "gay" not "homosexual males" because that would be me writing "homosexual males" because that is what I think they meant. Edkollin (talk) 21:39, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

"It is possible the sources used in this section knew exactly what they were writing because homosexual males and blacks were the prime groups that brought disco into being" I can't disagree with this statement more, at least content-wise, I mean, the prime groups that brought disco into being were musicians. Sure, it's important WHO delivers you the package but the people who packed and produced it are on top of everything else.

I humbly suggest, for the sake of neutrality and to appease the conflict or whatnot, that the aforementioned paragraph should be edited into: "[...] from the African American, Latino, LGBT (primarily gay)[3][4][lotsa sources], and psychedelic communities [...]" and if that fails I'm ought to give a try to some everybody-lets-vote contest. Sincerely, ItsAlwaysLupus (talk) 21:29, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for the slow response. Musicians were a prime group that brought disco into being but so were the "club" owners and their patrons. The way you can get LBGT in is simple find a reliable source(s) that use the term. I was very critical of the "hippie" influence because disco was a backlash against being excluded from the 60's counterculture and the anti disco backlash was primarily came from rock fans. Reliable sources were provided that showed not only that disco was influenced by the hippies but why and how. Edkollin (talk) 00:38, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

View from the bleachers. I believe gay is the appropriate word for we are discussing an article about a time in the past and should not use vocabulary of today which includes segments of the larger LGBTQ community who were not really a part of what was disco. At the time it was gay men that disco catered to. This might sound ugly, but much revolved around money and gay men had more of it to spend. It was not a cheap date to go to the disco. How much of an influence did gay men have on fashion? How much did fashion play a role in disco? The age of equality within the LGBTQ community is still in progress as cis-male identified individuals are still learning about diversity and inclusion in 2018. The gay community was very much a closed circle in the early years. Lesbians and gay men really only came together when AIDS hit. ABC's When We Rise accurately portrayed the separation of these two parts of the homosexual world.

Please remember, the disco era took place when people still called it a Gay Rights Movement. Gay & Lesbian started be used when referring to Pride Marches in the early 1980's, with many cities alternating to Lesbian & Gay every other year. Bisexual was added in the 1990's, transexual came next (and some have taken issue with the fact that transvestites are lumped in with transexuals when they are completely different things, but I digress). Why hasn't anyone lobbied for LGBTI or LGBTQ to be used here? GLAAD, in 2018, still says we are to use LGBTQ as the accepted term when writing about the community.

Final word if you really want to be current on what to call the community. The NIH has designated queer people as a Sexual and Gender Minority and is currently funding 2016-2020 research through the SGMRO (research office, though I think the R should stand for Reparations as Canada has already admitted are due). This change was made to effectively streamline their reporting procedures for everything they must gather for Congress and the American people. While they have not yet been granted all the protections intrinsic to a named minority class, SGM is the term that will one day be accepted and once formally introduced outside DC circles, will be the answer to the equality that has yet to be fully realized. That said, disco in the era this article refers to was truly a gay thing, not an LGBTQ thing. Okay, maybe the B (but even here only referring to the men) of LGBT, just don't tell their wives, bosses, or neighbors.Mrphilip (talk) 01:30, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

DJ Culture needs a fix

why does this article include See also: List of DJ Magazine's Top 100 DJs https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_DJ_Magazine%27s_Top_100_DJs&action=edit&redlink=1 when no such link is live. Better source needed. Mrphilip (talk) 01:35, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Isaac Hayes' "THEME FROM SHAFT" (1971)

How can this purport to explain the origin of disco with no listing of "Theme from Shaft"? This mentality is what makes wp the joke it famously is, either you weren't around then or are just throwing your weight around pointlessly trying to revise history... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.246.148.57 (talk) 12:09, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

If the Shaft theme is important for disco, it would be great to include information about this. Can you find some notable sources that discuss it? Popcornduff (talk) 12:19, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

:Are you kidding ? if the origin and predecessor of disco could be summarized in just one song, that would be it. Any reputable source (not wikipedia obviously ) will mention it if you bother looking . None of the other examples there have any cite whatsoever but you seem to be claiming some sort of precedence over other editors to be the one to make the judgment call that nobody else's contribution needs citation , only MY contribution needs citation. 71.246.148.57 (talk) 12:32, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

Actually, I've barely done any work on this article before. I don't support the inclusion of all the other uncited claims in the article either, but to go through all of those and root them out would take time. We're asking you not to make the situation any worse than it is. In the meantime, if you can find a reputable source for Shaft, please share it here. Popcornduff (talk) 13:11, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

I think this conversation has proved abundantly my earlier observation that you are NOTHERE to seriously improve or make this resemble a credible or accurate article and you certainly have no affection for the topic or perhaps little familiarity with it, you are here only to throw your weight around and stand on the letter of stupid policies that you (is that you in the "royal we"?) arbitrarily only seem to apply to my valid edit and none of the others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.246.152.225 (talk) 13:29, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

You have previously argued against original research[6][7] and synthesis,[8] while advocating thorough and correct citations.[9][10][11][12] What makes this article different – why do you think this one should be filled with unreferenced assertions?

You insulted me by saying I was NOTHERE, that I only wanted to be BMOC. You have insulted others before me: You called Ian.thomson a "dicksucking, white supremacist fa g got who should p0robably suicide",[13] and you called Dilidor a stalker.[14] You caused so much trouble to Doug Weller and Dbachmann that you were blocked by Beetstra as Til Eulenspiegel, so now you are socking and evading your block, using IPs from Virginia.

Finally, the "Theme from Shaft" is more soul and funk than it is disco. Binksternet (talk) 14:55, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

::::: I don't know why you have apparently confused me with one or more other contributors but that all is nothing to do with me ... but that doesn't seem to matter much in your world where you can just appoint yourself as the referee, make whatever accusations you like, treat IP editors like peons regardless of common sense , and plunder forward like a bull in a china shop. This is truly one of the uglier corners of the internet thanks to you guys. 71.246.152.225 (talk) 15:11, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

@Binksternet:, I'm satisfied these two are Til. Struck their edits and blocked. Doug Weller talk 15:51, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

Disco is a musical genre that was created by African-Americans.

While most of disco’s musical sources and performers were African American, the genre’s popularity transcended ethnic lines, including both interracial groups (e.g., KC and the Sunshine Band) and genre-blending ensembles (e.g., the Salsoul Orchestra).

Basically, other ethnicities liked it and contributed to it.This Wiki implies Italians created it. List the Italian Artists and And Italian Genres that created it. If you research Italian-American singers, you won't find many amd most persorm Jazz and Swing, which are also African-American in orgin. No one is denying contributions by others groups. Also, the death to Disco and the ball park was motivated by racism and rejection of black music. This is why MTV refused for years to play black artists. MTV stated they were a Rock music venue. Period.

Most Disco performers were African-American. First and Earliest Disco performers are African-Americans. The genres used African-Americans are mostly African-American. The genres thas camee from Disco... The same.. What they teach at colleges?? That is is an African-American genre.

Jesus can't blacks have their culture. It is the same with every genre... now we have white rappers. Next Italian Rappers created rape. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:5500:5081:6D00:70F8:CBFD:D79F:5ACD (talk) 11:10, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

DISCO SUCKS! Before Saturday Night Fever...

I recall seeing a documentary on VH1 or MTV or similar back in the 1990s in which the production team of Saturday Night Fever discussed the film. The Bee Gees stated that they didn't create disco - and that disco was a mass of influences, like most other music, and one of the production team described his horror at seeing a "DISCO SUCKS!" sticker on the back of a car before the movie was released in late 1977 and, aware of a disco "backlash" already, was alarmed that the film would bomb.

I will search for this documentary and others may like to look too. I'm a Disco fan, but this article seems to rely far too much on unsubstantiated views and feels rather far away from the 1970s reality. As for the idea that Disco sprang pure and formed straight from the ground, there's really not enough here of its influences - and far too much is made of its influence on other genres in my opinion. This reads rather like a Disco fanzine!

(81.131.156.109 (talk) 18:28, 1 February 2018 (UTC))

While most of disco’s musical sources and performers were African American, the genre’s popularity transcended ethnic lines, including both interracial groups (e.g., KC and the Sunshine Band) and genre-blending ensembles (e.g., the Salsoul Orchestra). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:5500:5081:6D00:70F8:CBFD:D79F:5ACD (talk) 11:12, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Village People in Sydney.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:52, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

About the assassination of JFK

In the section "Timeframe and ... New York", there's the sentence: "... The assassinations of Dr. Martin Luther King and John F. Kennedy and the Watergate scandal left many feeling disillusioned and hopeless". The assassination of JFK took place way before all the other events mentioned. It's just doesn't fit the timeline. Isn't the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy more appropriate here? MySmallContribution (talk) 14:50, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Backlash section

I did a major rewrite with the idea of putting one topic per paragraph. During the rewrite I came across material that was making the same point twice. When that happened I just left the quote from an actual person in. I renamed the section to reflect what was in the section. While I took out the sentence saying that there was not a focused backlash in Europe it was not because I think of it as unimportant. It was just that it is not great style to write about what did not happen and this section is about a US phenomenon. As I noted in the comments the various incarnations of Eurodisco need there own section(s). As I understand it there was some anti disco feeling in the UK among skinheads and the like but it never got to the level it did in the US. If cited material about this and other anto disco feeling elsewhere comes up the section could be renamed back. Edkollin (talk) 15:34, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Rearranged things to put reasons on bottom. Added subsection and External listing to so that this article finally deals seriously with the racism and homophobia allegations against backlash supporters. Edkollin (talk) 05:06, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Many of the Trojan and RASH Skins love soul music, but never disco. In Britain, DIsco was often criticised by the punks, but they osften supported reggae too. (Chris Henniker (talk) 22:37, 18 July 2010 (UTC))

The criticism by British punks of Disco and their like of reggae is noted in the "Factors" subsection of the "Backlash and Decline" section. Nothing about UK skinhead reaction to disco is in the article. You can try and find reliable sourcing and add it to the article. Edkollin (talk) 22:56, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

It's clear (especially to those of us who were there in that time period) that the backlash was a part of a much larger cultural backlash associated with the conservative revolution; and that the whole situation was just one of yet another of the theaters where the proxy fight between the conservatives and liberals were (and still are) being fought -- with the problems during the times of the Carter administration at the center of it all. This is especially apparent with the tie-in of the musical genre to the gay, urban and black scenes, and the exaggerated white, suburban, machismo aspect of the opposing genres (urban cowboy, punk, etc.). These are also the alignments that emerged from the 1980's onward between the partisan groups that, in the US, eventually aligned themselves with the Democratic (liberal) and Republican (conservative) parties.

We need more references and discussion to link this to the broader context of the times; for example: the timing of the Death of Disco relative to Carter's Malaise Speech, the Iran crisis, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.136.26.17 (talk) 13:28, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

I disagree with the attribution of politics to disco's decline. A lot of the disco music, particularly in the later period, wasn't very good artistically, conventional rockers and rock fans (many of them liberals and Democrats, mind you) felt threatened, and any time something experiences a "meteoric rise" (like disco did) it's almost certain to suffer a fall. It would have been better for disco (although I can't prove this) if it, like rap and hip-hop, had risen more gradually and not so much as to threaten rock 'n roll's dominance. As the end of the "Factors" sub-section explains, the DDN organizers weren't thinking politically or culturally when they staged the event, and many in the industry had artistic reaons for opposing disco. As I indicate below on this page, more research needs to be done into the artistic factors. While there are SOURCES suggesting political and social reasons, I don't see any hard evidence establishing a cause-and-effect link. The "decline and backlash" section needs more balance. In any case, disco was never going to "replace" rock in the long run, and I think it would have declined even if the political realities were different. (Eurodisco may have fared better, but it too is only a shadow of its former self. And I don't think that the evolving USA demographics which many political analysts see as an "Emerging Democratic Majority" will make disco-type music regain popularity in the USA either: A lot of today's "neo-progressives" aren't into disco.) RobertGustafson (talk) 10:48, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Personally, I find the weakest part of the sociopolitical theories to be the mention of a bad economy. Yes, we had stagflation in 1979, but then so did we in earlier years of the decade. Even if a source poses the economy as a theory, it doesn't make sense. If people are suddenly losing money and jobs, how does that cause someone to switch from disco music to standard rock? All the records cost the same. And if you're down on your luck, a little dancing would hardly make you feel "worse"--although with your limited finances you'd probably stay home instead of go out to a club. I think the critics--like humans in general--overanalyzed the musical phenomenon and its decline, and we shouldn't port all of that armchair analysis into the article. If nothing else, the primary focus should be on musical reasons for disco's falling out of favor, with passing mention of the sociopolitical stuff. RobertGustafson (talk) 18:50, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Also, if the decline in disco was primarily about homophobia and racism, why then--given that racism and homophobia are a lot less today--is disco still dead? Using Oscam's razor, I'd argue that disco was a passing fad, and it would have faded no matter what racial, sexual, or political attitudes were at the time. (This, of course, is POV, so it's not in the article.) RobertGustafson (talk) 18:54, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Hello everybody! I feel the urge to re-open this case. I'm afraid it contradicts Wikipedia's basic principle of a Neutral Point of View to interpret disco's decline as "backlash". This may be true from a certain (pro-disco) point of view (and there are arguments in favor of this interpretation), but it involves a valuation we shouldn't make. By the way, the section itself gives arguments against this interpretation, i.e. the support of pro-black reggae music by members of the anti-disco movement; the creative decline of disco; or the fact that it's more than questionable to connect the anti-disco punk movement with any conservative backlash; but all of this is not my main point. My point is we should keep it neutral and fact-, that is: source-based. Arguments like "it's clear (especially to those of us who were there in that time period)", given above, cannot be the foundation of an encyclopedia article. We should cite different sources who claim one or the other position (as we do already), but regarding our own words (and the caption of this section), I'd strongly suggest to speak in a more neutral way of disco's "decline" or an "anti-disco movement" instead of a "backlash".

So, if nobody vetoes within the next 72 hours, I'd make some changes. As you may know from my work here so far, I'm not against disco at all and don't intend to erase any arguments regarding the matter of dispute itself; it's really just about keeping a neutral tone. I hope you can all agree with that. Best regards! WilhelmSchneider (talk) 16:22, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Michael Jackson

I just watched the "Rock with You" video for the first time in a long time. I think it qualifies as disco. It has violins, it's funky, and it has a "4 to the floor" beat. What do you think? Does the song deserve specific mention in the article, or is the article long enough and replete with enough mentions to the Jacksons already? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:37, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Does not matter what you or I think. If reliable sources say it is disco or a post disco genre put it in otherwise keep it out.(Note: New Topics usually go on the bottom) Edkollin (talk) 22:13, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

I think it's self-evident that most of the songs on Off The Wall were disco. They were played in discoteques, they were on the disco music charts, and the album even included a song called "Burn This Disco Out", in the same style as most of the other songs. What's blatantly obvious to most people shouldn't be considered OR -- although, yes, it's better off if they're sourced. (Anyway, I've never encountered anyone asserting that "Rock with You" is NOT disco.) RobertGustafson (talk) 11:21, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

PS. If "Philadelphia Freedom" -- which I personally don't think of as disco -- can be considered a nod to disco, then why not "Rock with You"? A song is or isn't disco based on its musical style, not whether someone calls it disco. RobertGustafson (talk) 11:24, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

PPS. I removed "Philadelphia Freedom" from the list. If it's disco, then roosters lay eggs. (And I doubt Elton John would characterize it as such.) RobertGustafson (talk) 13:24, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Here is a reliable reference which gives an good explanation. [15] Edkollin (talk) 22:21, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

"Rock With You" does not have a "four to the floor" beat. The kick drum does not hit on beats two and four as on all Disco tracks. The only "four to the floor" tracks on the "Off the Wall" album are "Get On the Floor" and "Off the Wall". The kick drum hits on all four beats on those tracks. But "Rock With You" does not have a "four to the floor" beat at all. FreeSpirit80 (talk) 02:54, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Discofunk

Wikipedia currently lacks article on discofunk. I even doubt this genre existed, but I use this term for tracks like NYC Peach Boys - Don't Make Me Wait, I mean four-to-the-floor disco-like music but without orchestras, without soulful disco vocals but with a typical funk pattern instead (many wah-wah guitars, funky horns, simple to monotonic to declamative funky vocals etc.) that was kinda popular around 1977-1982. What is the right term for such music? -- 217.21.43.222 (talk) 08:42, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

• We would call it Funk Rock
• The Peech Boys - Biography at Allmusic
• Peech Boys Edkollin (talk) 05:10, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Or we would call it "Club/Dance-Pop/Rock-Electronic-Garage-Post-Disco" (: RockandDiscoFanCZ (talk) 18:55, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks to your efforts, I have found some information on that mysterious type of music called "disco funk". It is in the article on Boogie you had provided as a source for Post disco article. The other explanation of what disco funk could be has been found in one serious book on R&B music. So I am probably going to make an article about it in some time. To uncover its meaning, disco funk is described either as "acoustic" funk of the 1980s, or as "typical" 1980s funk music. So that song by Peech Boys qualifies as disco-funk, yes -- Appletangerine un (talk) 11:56, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Ehm? Sorry? This talk page is about disco, not post-disco/RcB/"boogie" (boogie[-woogie] is a piano-styled music that influenced Rock & Roll/Rockabilly). Disco music is a funky-psychedelia music with orchestras and big bands, disco-funk is a fusion (music) style of disco and funk. Peech Boys were active after the Disco Demolition Night, so they're not disco. It's my POV opinion. Maybe this band is heavy metal (if you have reliable source, so... it can be everything - it depends on sources/references). RockandDiscoFanCZ (talk) 16:30, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Hi, just so you know, Boogie is not just Boogie Woogie, it's also the name of a Post-Disco genre. Also, Disco did not cease being made in The Disco Demolition Night, it just stopped being popular. Also,as far as I know 'Disco-Funk' does not exist. Disco is already a type of Funk. That's like saying 'Rock-Metal' or 'A Capella-Doo Wop'.n--Dark Lord Thomas Pie (talk) 13:08, 1 October 2020 (UTC) [Dark Lord Thomas Pie]

Disco's resurgence in 2020— is there sufficient proof?

There is at the time of writing an section titled "2020s: Resurgence in mainstream popularity of disco and related cultural phenomena." The evidence given is several songs, as well as a renewed interest in disco related activities such as roller skating. However, just a few songs does not make for a trend, and as the section on the 2010s notes, disco influenced songs are not new. Is it really appropriate to have that section's title when there is not much evidence for a significant shift in the musical landscape? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8800:1B03:6200:2D64:8EFE:3481:B2E1 (talk) 22:20, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Agreed. We need some reliable secondary sources reporting that there was a resurgence in the 2020s. Instant Comma (talk) 23:55, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Not enough sources for it. No wonder this article isn't a good article anymore.

Reliability of Peter Braunstein

The section on "Eroticism and sexual liberation" opens with a quote from Peter Braunstein. Curious about his qualifications on the subject I looked at his article, and it turns out he's both a convicted rapist and at some point wrote a "hit list" of gay men he wanted to "punish" (though that claim isn't cited in his article). With this context the "hedonist's menu" part of his quote especially takes on a very suspect subtext. It seems to me both of these things call into question any insight he might have had on this particular subculture and its sexual proclivities. Given this, can he be considered a reliable source? If not removed entirely, might it at least be pertinent to add some of this context to his claims so readers know he may have some bias on issues of sex and homosexuality? I.e. "According to rapist Peter Braunstein..."? 204.112.199.2 (talk) 04:58, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Article placed under protection – college class?

This article has recently seen unreferenced editing from a variety of IP addresses, which put it into protection. The same sorts of edits have also been coming to other music articles, and one of the edit summaries at Luther Vandross saying "Af Am 327" led me to a particular graduate class at Northwestern University, in the African American Studies program, Af Am 327. The class description doesn't say anything about Wikipedia, but it says they are working on all the articles that have recently seen a flurry of editing from IPs, for instance Afrobeats and Jungle music. It looks like this professor is asking students to edit Wikipedia. To their credit, most of the edits are referenced, unlike the ones that were reverted here. Binksternet (talk) 02:23, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Annnaaa29.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 19:34, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Disco is not Latin

I'd like to contest the idea that Disco is a genre of Latin music. Whenever I hear disco music, I never hear anything that sounds Latin. 47.36.25.163 (talk) 21:40, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

We follow what the sources say, and not what you personally 'hear'. - MrOllie (talk) 17:03, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

What sources exactly do you follow? I have a playlist on YouTube Music about Latin music (namely the American kind) and I've put some songs that have disco listed as a genre, but that just makes the playlist radio play songs that are not Latin. 47.36.25.163 (talk) 22:05, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

The ones cited in the article, such as 'The Cambridge History of American Music' and 'Traces of the Spirit: The Religious Dimensions of Popular Music' - MrOllie (talk) 22:14, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

That doesn't exactly solve my YouTube problem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.36.25.163 (talk) 01:09, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

Your YouTube Music playlist isn't a source we can use to write this article. MrOllie (talk) 01:14, 11 February 2022 (UTC)