Talk:Ernie O'Malley

Incomplete comment
o'Malley came from a respectable middle class Roman Catholic family in Mayo. His Father was a clerk in the congestered Districts Board, which organised land reform in the west of Ireland. His family's politics were conservitive nationalists, supporting the Irish parlimentary Party. The O'Malley's moved to Dublin when the Easter Rising convulsedthe city, and were

___ This comment seems to be incomplete. Does anyone know where O'Malley's papers are held? I have found a reference to them in a free online chapter of Title: The I.R.A. at War 1916-1923 Author: Peter Hart Publisher: Oxford University Press ISBN-10: 0-19-927786-9 ISBN-13: 978-0-19-927786-5 Publication date: 27 January 2005 Format: 296 pages, 6 maps, 21 tables, 1 line illus., 234x156 mm

- Vernon White 09:18, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Here they are:

The papers are in University College, Dublin archives http://www.ucd.ie/archives/html/collections/omalley-ernie.htm

Vernon White 09:24, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

__

Ernie O'Malley's Papers
Only the "national"-related papers were donated to University College Dublin rchives in 1974 by Ernie O'Malley's son, Cormac. Cormac retains the bulk of the remainder of his personal papers, poetry, and some manuscripts in his New York residence and can be reached at comlaw@inch.com

According to the biography of O'Malley by Richard English, his name at birth, and that of his family's, was Malley, and that he latterly added the "O" to assert his Irishness. I believe name changes such as this are an important part of Irish Republicanism, though most attention has been paid to those who Gaelicise their name, not enough attention has been given to those who those who attempt to alter their anglicised names.

I think that you are right that the name was Malley however we shouldn't take it that that is how the family would have been know by all the people around them. The use of O and Mac (and varients thereof) could fluctuate within the same family in Ireland and there are plenty of examples of brother one of whom uses the O and one of who doesn't. People know that the O would be there but may not have used it themselves, not neccessarily to appear more 'English' as the 'O' had actually eroded in Irish to a slight 'uh' sound or gone all together in some Irish names anyway. It is only with the advent of technology that actually standardising these names has become important and I wouldn't be surprised if it were possible to find examples within his own family of both Malley and O'Malley being used - I know that within my own family from the period prior to this there were a variety of spellings used by different members of the family until the influence of proper record keeping and standardisation settled the question of how to spell our name! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.158.46.151 (talk) 20:48, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

That is very interesting. He never changed his first name from Earnest to Earnan officially, not that I know of. Why would he change his last but no his first —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.142.204.47 (talk) 15:31, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 11:31, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 14:39, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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Headings
I've tried to create two main ones for his IRA career – the early period v the British, then the Civil War era. Regards, Billsmith60 (talk) 19:53, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

GA Feedback – Images
A dozen or so images have been inserted to break up the "wall of text" the GA reviewer recommended. The GA improvement is underway Billsmith60 (talk) 11:45, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

No reverts should occur until after the article is resubmitted shortly. If the images are not needed, let the GA reviewer say so. Address issues here Billsmith60 (talk) 14:25, 27 January 2023 (UTC)


 * A thorough GA revision will be complete by 30 Jan. Billsmith60 (talk) 01:17, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

First revision is complete Billsmith60 (talk) 01:23, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

GA Assessment
As with any article, no wholesale or sweeping changes should be made without first discussing them here, particularly for material that is referenced. This article should hopefully be reassessed soon for GA status 62.6.143.107 (talk) 14:28, 6 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Firstly, You've already quickfailed a previous GA assessment and I guarantee you'll fail this coming one if you retain all the WP:Peacock terms and WP:NPOV violations I removed. In particular you need to read WP:Peacock terms and WP:Peacock terms, which give clearcut examples of "word to watch" and are the type of thing I removed. You can't just throw sentences like O'Malley left urban life and put his body on the line to free his country and He did not suffer fools gladly into this article, particularly when you're using the "Wikipedia voice" to state those [opinions as fact. Wikipedia articles have to be written in a neutral, impartial tone and in an encyclopedic format.
 * Just because you've put the article up for GA status doesn't the article should be frozen in place; GA nominations can take several, several months to be reviewed. Necessary edits can and should be made in the meantime by any editor acting in goodfaith. CeltBrowne (talk) 17:53, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm the reviewer that failed the article earlier and while it appears to have had a lot of work put into it, it looks like many of the issues I raised still apply to this version. The underlying autobiographical writing really shows through in the proliferation of minor details and non-neutral use of Wikivoice. I made edits to a small section to show the kind of thing I mean: . A particularly striking bit I noticed here is that it's completely unclear about what I would consider to be one of the most important facts of the matter - did he go back to TCD and take up the rifle or not?
 * @Billsmith60, try imagining a reader who has never been to Ireland and is familiar with the idea of Irish Republicanism but knows virtually none of the facts. They're interested and they're willing to read and follow some wikilinks, but O'Connell Bridge means nothing to them and they'll probably miss important context if you don't give it to them. A nerdy non-specialist, basically. If that person would struggle to understand what's going on in the article and how individual sentences relate to the whole, it doesn't pass criteria #3a/b. -- asilvering (talk) 20:18, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Some of what you say may be fair re (say) putting his body on the line. But "unrepentant" is a quote, not my words. Rather than you removing, wholesale, without previous discussion, why not wait and post your reply and see what, if any, the consensus is about quoted "puffery". I propose to reinstate referenced and quoted material and let the GA assessor, who won't be your good self, decide. Please don't be engaging in an edit war, though, as that'll fail it. Thanks Billsmith60 (talk) 18:24, 6 February 2023 (UTC)


 * I propose to reinstate referenced and quoted material and let the GA assessor, who won't be your good self, decide.
 * No, as I said before, it could be nine months or more before this article is accessed again, and a GA nom does not impose a moratorium on edits in the meantime. Removing content is a valid an edit as adding content if done in good faith. I am in good faith removing content I believe breaks Wikipedia guidelines.
 * But "unrepentant" is a quote, not my words
 * Then it should be presented as a quote, not written in the "Wikipedia voice" (See Voice (grammar)) and attributed, ie "Richard English has described O'Malley as an "Unrepentant Republican"".
 * Please don't be engaging in an edit war, though, as that'll fail it
 * Good Articles noms are failed on the merits of the content of the article, not how much editing is taking place. CeltBrowne (talk) 20:03, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, please read WP:EMPHATIC. Much of the contested content I cut down for brevity. WP:EMPHATIC shows with clear examples how passages on Wikipedia should be written, and how informal, conversational language should be avoided. Just gives us the facts. An example of a sentence I cut down because it was breaking the guidelines laid out in WP:EMPHATIC would be:
 * This was a critical duty: with minimal help from GHQ, he was to lick raw recruits into an effective local fighting force against an opponent that would be sending more and more forces to Ireland CeltBrowne (talk) 20:14, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * An article can indeed fail a GA nom for being the site of an active edit war. I wouldn't say this is an edit war, though. -- asilvering (talk) 20:02, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Also, would you please reinstate the changes I made in answer to your queries, like the passport issue. I've redone the Barry one Billsmith60 (talk) 18:39, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:53, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Ernie O'Malley Four Courts.jpg

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:53, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Ernie O'Malley Prison 2.jpg

Did you know nomination
I've made an amendment to the proposed text. See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Did_you_know_nominations/Ernie_O%27Malley&action=edit&redlink=1 Billsmith60 (talk) 09:50, 6 May 2023 (UTC)