Talk:Howard Johnson's

Product placement in "2001 - Space Odyssey"
At 27:22 minutes in the "2001 - Space Odyssey" movie, Floyd is standing by "Howard Johnson's Earthlight Room" right before he goes in the Picturephone booth. I think it is a restaurant, not a hotel (although earlier you an see a Hilton) so I can't be sure. The experts should know. It also shows how Howard Johnson's, as the largest restaurant chain of the times before the oil crisis, rubbed shoulders with giants such as IBM, Hilton, AT&T and PanAm, all present in this movie segment.

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Last Howard Johnson's restaurant (Lake George, NY)
As the article factually states, the very last Howard Johnson's restaurant located in Lake George, New York, closed for business on October 12, 2017. With the owner jailed over sexual abuse allegations and the restaurant's land up for sale (not to mention its stigma of extremely negative food reviews) it appears to be a permanent closure. As such, one would assume it is the end of the restaurant chain.

However, Cman41886 (on February 2) edited the article to state the Lake George restaurant was in operation again, along with a supposed second location in Ocala, Florida. The latter I removed as its just a generic restaurant within a HoJo motel that has no relation to the Howard Johnson's restaurant chain. However, I am curious about the validity of the Lake George restaurant being opened once again. Particularly since someone apparently submitted an edit to Google Maps that it is an active business once again, although that does not necessarily mean it is.

Reputable websites like Tripadvisor and Yelp show its status as "CLOSED". Furthermore, the last user reviews are dated from October 2017 or earlier. There is ONE review on Tripadvisor dated January 11, 2018, but it's from someone who attempted to visit the restaurant and discovered it is locked up and permanently closed. Question is, did it unexpectedly reopen just three weeks later, and without any announcements or fanfare? The number listed for the restaurant is still out of service if that says something. And I've searched and cannot find any articles or stories online about a reopening, or even the potential planning for one. If anyone can find evidence or proof the restaurant has reopened, please share that here so the article can be updated accordingly. Otherwise the article should remain unchanged with regards to the status of the restaurant chain. --Apple2gs (talk) 19:17, 29 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Well, to my surprise, I found evidence just a few days later the restaurant has in fact reopened (at least in some sense). According to discussions on the Facebook group "HojoLand", as of at least March 31, 2018, the restaurant is still operating. It seems to be opened on random days of the week, and with no posted or fixed operating hours. For that reason many have assumed its out of business. Not even sure it has a staff, may just be John Larock running the restaurant himself at this point. I've reverted the article back for now. Will watch for any changes. --Apple2gs (talk) 01:21, 10 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi! I have no idea why this keeps being removed. The Ocala location is a full fledged Howard Johnson restaurant affiliated with the Howard Johnson's chain since Howard Johnson's (the name) is, in fact, owned by Wyndham. The hotel's website even lists it as such: http://www.hotelocala.com/me/howard-johnson-inn-ocala/hotel-restaurant-room-service-7304.html?navId=230, along with Wyndham's site, which was listed as a source.
 * You could also ask the FB group hojoland, should you be inclined. While it is true that it is not an "original" location, if you were basing chains on "original" locations, you would be hard pressed to find many. Cman41886 (talk) 19:45, 27 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Furthermore, I have emailed Wyndham to get a definitive response on this. Cman41886 (talk) 19:54, 27 June 2018 (UTC)


 * While I'm not the one who removed your most recent edit (that would be TenPoundHammer), I'd tend to agree on his position about the Ocala hotel restaurant. Still, it's worthy of discussion. As you might be aware, there are several Howard Johnson hotels with in-house dinning/restaurants that have absolutely no connection whatsoever with the former Howard Johnson's restaurant chain. They're just nameless hotel restaurants. Case in point, the Ocala website you gave above refers to it as the "Hotel Restaurant". Further down it's referred to as "the on-site HoJo restaurant", which is the very same thing. There's a reason why they don't say "the on-site Howard Johnson's restaurant".


 * Technically I could cite dozens of so-called current "Howard Johnson's restaurants" as there are several other Howard Johnson by Wyndham hotel locations running on-site restaurants too. How about the Elk Lake HoJo up in Victoria, BC, Canada? Here's a photo of the inside and out (note it is clearly marked "Howard Johnson" in front of the restaurant name, and interestingly enough, a dark orange-colored roof)...


 * Interior:https://i0.bookcdn.com/data/Photos/Big/4190/419080/419080683/Howard-Johnson-Hotel-And-Suites-Victoria-Elk-Lake-photos-Exterior-Hotel-information.JPEG
 * Exterior: https://www.google.com/maps/@48.5027319,-123.3861807,3a,75y,225.05h,88.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYlZ4PKFlDNC9OG3SIjSPbw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


 * It's a restaurant within a Howard Johnson hotel, but like the Ocala location, just a generic hotel restaurant. The difference is (and an important bit to factor in here) the Ocala owners are paying nostalgic tribute to the former Howard Johnson's restaurant chain. It's a cute nod to the past, adding a miniature cupola and orange roof. Ditto for throwing in a classic menu item or two from the former restaurant chain (along side their own generic menu). Yet it's merely decorative in a sense, a kind of hollow gesture. It's almost like someone wearing a novelty black t-shirt with an image of a Tuxedo printed on front. It's just a playful facade, not the real thing. At any rate, look up HoJo Victoria Elk Lake as an example of another restaurant that could fall in the same debate (and there are several more): http://www.hojovictoria.ca/thelakes/


 * Incidentally, I don't think Wyndham had anything to do with the playful tribute at the Ocala location. The roof and menu are something the owners of that particular hotel decided to do themselves. And yes, I agree John LaRock's current envisionment of Howard Johnson's in Lake George is probably even less authentic than Ocala, but for better or worse, his restaurant falls under what is considered an official part of the chain. Now I'm not saying this is a closed matter and final, or that there cannot ever be new Howard Johnson's restaurants. I'm just giving my thoughts and opinions on whether this particular location could be considered an official Howard Johnson's restaurant. Also worth noting: the HojoLand website (http://www.hojoland.com/locations.html) doesn't list the Ocala restaurant as a current location. Personally, I tend to think of that site as the definitive listing.--Apple2gs (talk) 07:27, 29 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Here's an update (likely) to put some closure on this debate. According to reports on the Hojoland Facebook group, the previously nameless restaurant at the Ocala site has been officially named "The Thunderbird Cafe". The hotel owners even put up an outdoor sign in front of the restaurant in recent days. Here's a website mentioning the restaurant by name: https://www.oahu.com/property/howard-johnson-by-wyndham-ocala-fl/BC-58859
 * At this point it would be quite a far stretch listing it as a Howard Johnson's Restaurant.--Apple2gs (talk) 07:52, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:52, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Howard Johnson's.svg

Areas served (infobox status)
The Infobox on this article mostly pertains (aside from a historic fact or two) to the current status of the Wyndham hotel brand. For the category of "Areas Served" it lists the number of hotels operated by Wyndham, but it also states the number of restaurants--just one. I have to ask, considering that the one restaurant in New York is not owned, operated or supported by Wyndham in any way shape or form, does it belong in the box? Wyndham has no corporate connection to this restaurant, they have not even authorized the use of their copyrighted brand, they are just tolerating its use. Most people do not even consider this restaurant an authentic Howard Johnson's for many, many reasons I won't bother to recite and repeat here. Though the question is, does it belong under the corporate umbrella of Wyndham for this page?

It is a part of Howard Johnson's restaurants history, and claims to be the last remaining one in existence, so it has that. Though it is no longer connected to Wyndham, it's almost more like an independent diner operating out of a museum of sorts. Strictly speaking, saying Wyndham serves New York state with a restaurant is false statement, they do not. John LaRock does, so I'm tempted to remove it. On the other hand, in terms of listing number of businesses still using the Howard Johnson's name, it makes sense. I'm conflicted and on the fence whether it should stay or go from the infobox. How do other feel on the issue?

--Apple2gs (talk) 18:28, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

And on a related topic, the opening sentence states: "Howard Johnson by Wyndham is an American chain of hotels and motels located primarily throughout the United States and Canada.". The majority of hotels/motels are indeed in the States, but only 19 in Canada. In contrast to Canada we have 66 in China and 48 in Latin America. Would it be more accurate to say "located primarily throughout the United States, China and Latin America." or just leave it as United States and omit Canada? --Apple2gs (talk) 05:14, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

"New chains and a changing public" section
I wish I had the time to do some editing on this section, but I'm afraid I don't. I just added 'citation needed' where the article states that Howard Johnson, Jr. " attempted to streamline company operations and cut costs, such as serving cheaper food and having fewer employees" and how this contributed to the decline of the company. Looking at that whole section, it seems well written and coherent, but doesn't seem to have a source.

I've had a little time to do some quick searches about this era, and found at least one publication of interest:

This paper talks about many of the contributing causes to the decline of HOJO's but only briefly mentions cost-cutting, and it's not clear whether the authors are talking about H.J. Senior or Junior. Mark Asread (talk) 18:28, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Prod
Fails WP:NORG since the sources are about the restaurants not the hotels. 59.100.163.90 (talk) 04:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)