Talk:Laos/Archive 1

old comment
http://www.mekong-protected-areas.org/lao_pdr/n_report.htm says 21% of land area is NBCA

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.175.238.10 (talk) 22:24, 9 June 2005 (UTC)

Older Lao history -- please help
I am temporarily removing this section because it is completely unsourced, confusing, and not up to grammatical standards. Can someone improve/source this text and restore it to the article?

Laos traces its history to the kingdom of Lan Xang, founded in the fourteenth century, by Fa Ngum (Faa Ngoom) with the help of Ayuttaya (SIAM). Fa Ngum's 2nd wife was a princess of Ayuttaya. Folling on his conquests and the founding of Lan Xiang, his son took control and retired Fa Ngum to Nan. As the son assumed kingship of Lan Xiang, he changed his name to "Sam Sen Thai" (300,000 Thai), which reflects the makeup of the population. The predominantly Siamese royal family maintained control of Laos, sometimes under different municipal Kings, until an invasion of HAW from the north necessitated a call for aid from Ayuttaya. While the armies of Luang Prabang and Ayuttaya were fighting the HAW, the armies of Vientienne attacked them from the rear. Naturally, Ayuttaya retaliated, conquered Southern Laos and assumed control of the separate principalities that remained. One hundred years later, to avoid a costly war with the French, the Siamese king ceded lands now known as Laos to them, and these were incorporated into French Indochina in 1893. The French saw Laos as a useful buffer state between the two expanding empires of France and Britain. Under the French, the capital (Vieng Chan) was changed to Vientiane. Following a brief Japanese occupation during World War II, the country declared its independence in 1945, but the French re-asserted their control and only in 1950 was Laos granted semi-autonomy as an "associated state" within the French Union. Moreover, the French remained in de facto control until 1954, when Laos gained full independence as a constitutional monarchy. Under a special exemption to the Geneva Convention, a French military training mission continued to support the Royal Laos Army. In 1955, the U.S. Department of Defense created a special Programs Evaluation Office to replace French support of the Royal Lao Army against the communist Pathet Lao as part of the U.S. containment policy.

Jkp1187 (talk) 15:15, 19 December 2007 (UTC)


 * This is great educational background information. It would be good to find a way to include it. Dr. B. R. Lang (talk) 18:59, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi JKp1187. You are nearly completed the Lao history in old period. I have document about Lao history but it is Lao language, If have time, I will try to translate to English --Svongthavone (talk) 10:25, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

---

I'm afraid this is not true. There is no ethnic Lao group in Thailand. Many of the people of Issan's ancestors were Lao when the region was part of Lao before the Thai annexation. These people are aware of their heritage but have been part of Thailand for nearly two centuries. Countrary to urban legend, Issan does not speak Lao, it has no single language but a series of different dialects, many akin to central plains Thai, only the people around Nong Khai actually speak Lao. The people of Issan reguard themselves as Thai and regard being considered anything other offensive.

Similarly Lao is not an ethnicity it is a nationality. A large part of the country does not even speak the language but hold PDR Lao nationality. The country is called Lao, the nationals are called Lao, the language is called Lao. Do you really want to base a description of a country looking at the point of origin of distant ancestors and saying these are not nationals? I notice this isn't done when describing western countries.


 * Actually Western countries do tabulate ethnic statistics. In the United States, not only do the Lao have a category but so do the Hmong. Thailand is one of a few countries that does not include ethnic information in their census (I think they stopped counting Lao in about 1930), but independent sources estimate the Lao population as slightly more numerous than Central Thai/Siamese. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.165.156.177 (talk) 00:07, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

--


 * Hey, man, it wasn't me. I just knew this section wasn't up to spec. If you're more educated on the subject and say it doesn't belong, that's good enough for me. Leave it out. Jkp1187 (talk) 19:29, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Lao should not redirect to Laos because Lao is also an ethnic group (to the tune of 30 million people) that resides in Thailand.

When is this page going to be wikied into the wiki country style???

let's make this like other wiki country pages

I have just created the List of Laos-related topics. Please add all pages I forgot or did not find, or those which you start into that list. andy 11:58 Apr 8, 2003 (UTC)

Lao unicode doesn't work. Let's just use Thai. Lao people have no problem reading it.


 * What is the problem with Lao unicode? I can see the characters working - however what seems to be broken is the posing of the vocals above and below and in front the characters, something which works fine with Thai. But this is not a problem of unicode nor a problem of Wikipedia, it's just that the OS does not know about it. A western Win2000 handles Thai fine, but not Lao. Probably older Windows will have problem with handling Thai as well pr might not even include a font to render it, and maybe future OS will handle Lao correctly - I don't about other OS like MacOS or Linux how much these are prepared for non-latin languages. Some totally nonsense Lao: &#3725;&#3765;&#3773;&#3779;&#3740;&#3761; andy 09:05 Apr 14, 2003 (UTC)

Interesting. I can't read it. Only see empty boxes. I'm running 2000


 * Then it's a font issue - I have one nearly complete unicode font (24MB) containing the japanese, chinese and koreanish characters as well, seems like that one adds the Laotian characters, too. Sadly, this font is no longer available from the Microsoft website, it was a free add-on to Office. However, at http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/fonts.html it has an alternative which only contain the Lao characters - and with that font even the placement is correct. andy 07:46 Apr 15, 2003 (UTC)

Lao (ethnic group)
is there a way to discuss the use of the term "Laotian" versus "Lao"? I feel offended every time i read the word because people from Laos are Lao, the food is also Lao, the culture and language is Lao. the term "Laotian" is a term coined by western culture is it not? can we not correct this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jindapee (talk • contribs) 17:51, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

This isn't strictly about the Laos page, but I don't think there's a better place to mention it. I have a draft article on the Lao ethnic group at User:Markalexander100/Lao: is there any objection to putting it on Lao, which currently redirects here? The alternative (as far as I can see) is to put it on Lao (ethnic group) and have Lao as a disambig page. Markalexander100 09:27, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It would appear that the Denonym of Laos is LAO and it also acts as the adjective. I'm not too sure how sound the reasoning behind the use of Laotian to differentiate the Lao people as whole from the ethnic lao group. Inthavbo (talk) 06:17, 28 October 2008 (UTC) -

Why does the article say that Laos only has electricity in a few urban areas? From my experience I thought that Laos has elecricity in all urban areas and in fact has electricity in all of the villages that I saw. Admittedly I haven't seen very many villages, but in any event I think that the phrase "Electricity is available only in a few urban areas" is misleading.

Laos finest fauna
The gaur:

http://www.arkive.org/species/GES/mammals/Bos_frontalis/Bos_frontalis_00.html

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.220.146.31 (talk) 08:32, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

citation request
A citation request was made for:

"Laos was ordered in the late 1970s by Vietnam to end relations with China which cut the country off from trade with any country but Vietnam [citation needed]."

I dont see this as needing a citation. There is nothing obscure about:

- Laos cutting off relations with China after Vietnam and China fell out with each other. - The fact that this decision effectively isolated Laos economically. Thailand was already closed. Insurgencies made Burma impossible and Cambodia was ruled by Vietnam. That only left China and the break in relations cut that off.


 * A citation request is nothing to do with obscurity, it has to do with verifiability. I suspect the questioner's concern is with the 'ordered' rather than with the actual effects. HenryFlower 09:52, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

You obviously won't be able to find a citation for Vietnam "ordering" Laos to do anything. As I discuss at my two History of Laos articles, the Lao communists don't need to be "ordered" to do things by the Vietnamese communists, to whom they have always been willing subordinates. Laos always follows Vietnam's lead in foreign policy, both because Laos is still largely dependent on Vietnam (and was even more so in 1979) and because the Lao leaders believe the Vietnamese leadership is always right. Adam 10:35, 9 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I refuse to entertain the fiction that the Laos government in the late 1970's was an independent government making its own decisions. There was no independent Laos government until the Vietnamese army and the Vietnamese political advisors left the country. There were no Laos reasons for cutting relations with China. The country that had the problem at that time with China was Vietnam. The point of the original text was that the action was done for Vietnamese reasons, that it was harmful to Laos and it left Laos even more dependent on Vietnam as a side-effect. If the word "ordered" is a problem, I'm willing to consider alternatives that preserve the the original point.

Please stop posting anonymous comments. Adam 01:43, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Re: Image...Si Saket vs. That Luang
Gentleman two simple google image searches for "That Luang" and "Wat Sisaket" reveal that this is indeed a picture of Wat Sisaket. From what I can see, the temple in the article's image looks nothing like any structure in the That Luang compound. The image uploader and Mr. Fowler are correct so Mr. annonymous IP, please stop changing the caption.--WilliamThweatt 19:19, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Not Sisaket
The image whose caption was changed is, with all due respect, not Wat Sisaket. It is a view of the Wat Luang Nua (or Neua) located on the north side of the That Luang complex. There is also a Wat Luang Tai temple building to the south. The photograph in question appears to have been taken by someone who had entered through the main That Luang entrance and then turned 90 degrees to their left. In the photograph one can see the inner couryard area of That Luang as well as (in the bottom right corner) the sloping edge of the That Luang stupa itself. As an imperfect reference see the following image which appears to have been taken from a location about a 100 meters behind, and a little to the right of, the location of the photo in question (http://www.orientalarchitecture.com/vientiane/THATLUANG02.htm). One can clearly see the That Luang stupa as well as the top of Wat Luang Nua on the left of the frame.

Wat Sisaket, on the other hand, is located a couple of kilometers away from That Luang (at the intersection of Lane Xang Blvd and Sethatirat Rd). Wat Sisaket has an aged brown and yellow appearance, unlike the pink and gold building seen in the photograph. A simple Google image search will provide multiple examples (although some images of neighboring Hor Phra Kheo also appear to come up).

Another difference, the inner coutyard of Wat Sisaket is covered in brick or tile (see "http://www.orientalarchitecture.com/vientiane/WATSISAKET08.htm"), while the inner courtyard of That Luang (as seen in the disputed photograph) is covered with grass.

I live in Laos and visited both of these sights just a couple of weeks ago, so my memory is pretty fresh.


 * I've only seen one of them, so I express no opinion either way. However, it seems to me that this argument is irrelevant: the picture is included as an example of a wat, so which one it is is neither here nor there. HenryFlower 18:14, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * A good solution for now, but in the interest of thoroughness, I think it should only be considered a temporary solution until we can get this figured out. Maybe we should scrap the pic and find one of a temple we can all agree on.

Please note few Lao citizens or residents use the word 'Wat' to describe a temple. They prefer the transliteration 'Vat' which reflects the Lao language (Vientiane dialect) better, reflects the French cultural influence of the past, and distinguishes from Thai and Khmer temples. Aidenglen 08:12, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

My PD Laos photos
Sabaidee, folks: here are some new photos for you. Perhaps you should use one of Wat That Luang, since it's the national shrine. Adam 03:31, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

That Luang is too atypical to be a good example of Lao religious architecture in general; I'd go for something more conventional, but without a bloody great tree in the way - perhaps Image:Luang_Prabang_Xieng_Tong.jpg. 08:03, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

It's my attempt to be artistic. I will find you one without the tree. Adam 09:58, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I also have photos of Wat Xieng Thong in LP, IMHO the most beautiful wat in Lao, if you are interested. Adam 10:23, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

The new pic looks perfect- do you remember which one it is? HenryFlower 10:34, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Do you mean, is it Wat Sisaket or Ho Phra Kaeo? It's Ho Phra Kaeo - you can tell them apart because Ho Phra Kaeo has those curved black nagas at the entrance. Adam 11:03, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Excellent pictures. Although not typical of Lao temple architecture, an image of That Luang might be a good idea to place somewhere in the article. It is very much the national symbol. The temples themselves vary quite a bit. I think that Hor Phra Keao is the most beautiful building in Vientiane, while Wat Sisaket has the claim to being the oldest continually standing structure. I'll agree with Adam though and say that Wat Xieng Thong in Luang Prabang is absolutely the most stunning piece of architecture in the country.


 * I took an executive decision and inserted Ho Phra Kaeo, since it's a better picture than the Xieng Thong one, and a rather more typical building. HenryFlower 20:24, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Coat of Arms
Someone seems to have added the older picture of the code of arms, I have no idea why did they do this but please change it back.

And to the person that mentioned that the Thai font should be use instead of the Lao font, please try not to create hostilites or you would likely see massive complaints and comments from Laotians that view this page. The comment that you made was a big insult and offensive to the Laotian people.
 * If you mean the tag at the top, that's just the template and I have removed it. Chris 02:05, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Formatting
Can anybody fix the huge white space problem at the beginning of the history section? The country-info-box extending into the section causes the text to begin at the bottom of the info box, leaving about a half-page of white space between the "History" header and the beginning of the text. It's very unsightly. The 2nd section ("Naming") appears correctly, starting right after the intro and entirely to the right of the info box. I took a cursory look but couldn't figure out why the "history" section doesn't do the same.--WilliamThweatt 16:20, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I think I figured it out. The image at the top of the History section was forcing the text to begin after the image. I moved the image syntax to after the third paragraph of the history section which allowed the text to begin immediately after the header. Not sure how it will affect other brosers but it looks a lot better in mine.--WilliamThweatt 16:26, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Userboxes
I have created a Userbox for Wikipedians living in Vientiane. Add this template to your userpage:

User Vientiane

The Userbox will automatically add your name to Category:Wikipedians in Vientiane and create a box that looks like the one below.

Who wants to make a userbox for Laos? Most other countries in Asia have one. See Category:Nation of origin user templates and Wikipedia:Userboxes/Location/Asia. Cheers. APB-CMX 05:13, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Proposed WikiProject
In my ongoing efforts to try to include every country on the planet included in the scope of a WikiProject, I have proposed a new project on Southeastern Asia at WikiProject Council/Proposals whose scope would include Laos. Any interested parties are more than welcome to add their names there, so we can see if there is enough interest to start such a project. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 16:42, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Youtube Video Links
I've removed the paragraph and the links to the YouTube Videos, under the Politics paragraph. The paragraph didn't fit in, and the links were not appropriate for the section anyway. Devtrash 01:13, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Please help-Lao language request
Hello! The Graphic Lab is working on artwork related to Laos, and we need some help to get the proper Lao language text into the artwork. Please visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Graphic_Lab/Images_to_improve#Scouting_in_Laos and see if you can help! Thanking you in advance, Chris 07:01, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Lao font?
Anyone know where I can download something that lets me view Lao characters, instead of squares? Thanks Josh 19:34, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Try here: siafu 20:56, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Can anyone give step-by-step directions to view lao fonts, because I've downloaded many files from that site wit no results. T_Sing1991 —Preceding comment was added at 19:05, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi Lao readers, Try this link http://www.laoscript.net/downloads/ then select the one you need. --Svongthavone (talk) 10:48, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Irrelevant statement removed
I removed "Also, American actress Brenda Song is from Laos" for irrelevancy under Terminology. Brenda Song has no relation to the adjectival form of "Laos."

Tolerant666 21:00, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Deletion vote
Please see the deletion vote at Articles for deletion/List of Taiwanese Americans. Badagnani 02:58, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Lao Censorship & News (errors & need for separate page?)
(1) Although some will assume that I'm telling a lie, it is actually not true that the government censors the internet in Laos. Unlike China *or* Thailand, at any internet cafe in Lao you can access anything and everything that's on the net --not only "politically sensitive" material, but also pornography (the latter is more popular than politics, in case you didn't know).

Although it would be possible for the government to block certain websites, even the most rapid American-Lao websites can be read within Laos. No kidding.

(2) I think there could (or should) be a separate page for Lao censorship, just as there is one for the P.R. of China.

There's a gap between legislation and reality: Article 31 of the Lao constitution allows freedom of speech without restrictions. On the other hand, any publication (books, magazines, etc.) imported into Laos must be (theoretically) approved by the government. In reality, Thai newspapers are shipped in the same way as Thai prawns, and are never censored (this is a contrast to, e.g., Singapore, where you're likely to find literal holes in foreign newspapers). I've seen the forms to get a book approved for import or publication; they now do it in seven business days, and the restrictions are very lax. Many books in English that are openly critical of the government are sold everywhere in the capital, and are available even in public libraries. It seems that there is more control on Lao-language and Thai materials, but I don't know if this is purely informal or has a legislative basis.

In 2007, Martin Stuart-Fox, the author of Buddhist Kingdom, Marxist State was given a hero's welcome at a series of events co-sponsored by the Lao and Australian governments (with uncritical praise for and from both countries). This book's history is a good example; it was briefly banned while the Lao government took time to read and review it (probably translating it from Eng. to Lao in the process) --but then, at the end of that procedure, they did allow the book to be sold and distributed in Laos. And it can be easily found there today.

This is an interesting contrast to Thailand.

(3) What is currently stated, that the Lao government owns and controls all newspapers, was true until about 2004 or 2005 --but there now are a few minor publications that they don't own/control. There's one lifestyle Magazine called "M" that doesn't discuss anything more political than lipstick and organic food, and a newspaper called "Lao Classified" that, again, doesn't discuss politics beyond rate of taxation on imported cars. Still, these reflect a slowly growing (and somewhat "free") press, in a tiny communist country of only 5.6 million.

Like most small countries, the people rely on outside sources of news; mainland China's Lao-language news service can be heard on radio throughout the country --as can the C.I.A.'s "Radio Free America". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.24.146.14 (talk) 05:37, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Need Lao script
Need Lao script at Lao-Lao. Badagnani 23:21, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Request for an additional section
There should be added a section concerning UXO's and cluster bombs that litter the countryside and cause hundreds of deaths and injuries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.165.103.222 (talk) 16:40, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Socialist or Communist?
I'm a bit confused. I thought Laos was more of a Communist State than a Socialist Republic (even if a Marxist-Leninist Socialist Republic is the same as a Communist State).

Royaljared 21:39, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

NPOV
More statistics need to be included about different indexes than ones that try to show how bad the current government is —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.211.249.183 (talk) 10:26, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

deleted: bombing of Laos
"destroying the country's limited infrastructure and restricting much of its population to living in caves" as been deleted since sources do not support this claim. U.S. bombing was center on NVA installations on the Ho Chi Minh trail, which was limited to the southeastern corner of the country. Patently absurd to claim that "much" of the population was reduced to living in caves.

Chudogg (talk) 16:10, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It is true that neither source mentions anything about people living in caves; both sources are more about the legacy of unexploded ordinance in the areas bombed. OhNo itsJamie Talk 16:19, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

i don't have the sources in front of me, but in my university studies i recall reading (from US. govt primary sources) that U.S. bombing (and civil war generally) created about 200-300,000 internal refugees during the war. indeed many of the people who did not flee the countryside ended up living in caves, though the actual number of such people is unknown. there is one famous cave (at least famous locally) in laos, where hundreds of people died when a US missile got a direct hit. another cave is known for the scores (perhaps hundreds) of people who died when capsicum was burned at the entrance in an effort to 'smoke' out the inhabitants.

bombing was, in fact, not limited to the ho chi minh trail or the 'southeastern corner of the country.' practically all non-urban regions were bombed, in particular the northern areas were particularly well hit, being the base of the pathet lao and the NVA. if you need proof, simply fly into phonsavanh (the plain of jars). you will see craters everywhere, as well as refurbished UXO. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.165.156.177 (talk) 00:01, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

selection of photographies
Hi Guys! I did some work on the selection of pictures used in this article. Now we have two photos of That Luang. Because one of them is mine, I didn't want to erase the other one. each of them has qualities. Avalas Photo is taken in bright sunlight, mine is taken from the "correct" point of view and has the statue of the builder (a king) in front. Please decide what to do with the photos. thanx --Spolloman (talk) 06:35, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Nonsense dates
"According to the October 2007 UNODC fact book "Opium Poppy Cultivation in South East Asia," the poppy cultivation area was 15 square kilometres (3,700 acres), down from 18 square kilometres (4,400 acres) in 2008"

How can a 2007 book, report figures from 2008? How can a figure from 2007 be "down" from 2008? Is time reversed? Please clarify... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.70.111.174 (talk) 02:29, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Independent date
What is the exact independent date of Laos, 1949 or 1953? 71.107.79.64 (talk) 00:46, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * According to https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/la.html#Govt, it was 19 July 1949 (from France) . -- Boracay Bill (talk) 01:37, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

55% vs 69% Lao
Thsis article, in 2 different places, says the dominant ethnic group in Laos is the Lao, at 55% and further down at 69%...which is right?

Mr. Matt Wallace, B.A. (Hist), B. Ed. (Sec. SS) (talk) 21:00, 26 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmmmm..... I took a quick look in the article and only saw the 69% figure, unsupported by any cited source. The section where that appears points to the Demographics of Laos article, so I took a quick look there and was unable to resolve this. That article, though, mentions the List of ethnic groups in Laos article, and that article cites, wherein table 1 (Ethnicity of Population) and accompanying text on pages 3 and 4 say that Lao athnicity is Tai Kadai 66.20% + Lao Theung 23.00% + Lao Sung Hmong Yao 7.40% + Lao Sung Tibeto Burman 2.50% + Lao Sung Hor Han 0.20% = 99.3%. It looks to me as if all of these articles need a closer look. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 23:09, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Removed paragraph
Initially moved from the pre-article to the economy section. Upon further thought, it was completely removed. It is unsourced and seems to be biased. I gather it was an brief point concerning the relationship between corrupt government officials and private business, however the way it was written is not suitable:

Private enterprise has increased since the late 1990s when economic reforms including rapid business licensing were introduced. Laos is still ranked among the lowest countries in terms of economic and political freedom. The government still controls most of Laos businesses. Sometimes corrupted government officials would take over private businesses by kidnapping and murdering business owners for their own benefits. This has been going on for many years. Inthavbo (talk) 06:23, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

MUAY LAO
'''Muay Lao is the Martial Arts of Laos. It is very similar to Muay Thai, but utilizes more points of contact. It is less known and unrecognized than Muay Thai, but just as effective.'''

Common Terms Used in Muay Thai Muay Lao

Ajarn - Master or teacher of Muay Lao or Muay Thai.

Mai Muay - Word used to described the Techniques of Muay Lao or Muay Thai.

Muay - The word Muay is a Lao and Thai word used to describe a style of martial arts. For example, the word muay can be used like this, muay karate, muay kung fu, muay ju-jitsu, muay thai, muay Lao etc.

Nak Muay - Words used to describe a person who practices Martial Arts. In our case Nak Muay Lao or Nak Muay Thai.

Wai Kuu - Words used to described the Dance a Nak Muay performes to pay respect to his/her Ajarn.

Lao/Thai Numbers: Nung - One Song - Two Sam - Three See - Four Ha - Five Hoke - Six Jet - Seven Pbat - Eight Gowl - Nine Sip - Ten


 * MUAY LAI LAO is one kind of Muay Thai Boran from in Nortern East of Thailand including Laos country and is also an ancient Art of the Laotian people.

--have started an art form of combat.

--"Muay Lai Lao" a form of very strong boxing style.

--also a form of boxing that shows the boxer's artful body stance.

--"Muay Lai Lao" started from ancient boxing style "Muay Tunk" which is also called "Muay Sieua Lark Hang" Tiger dragging tail and has been passed down from generation to generation by exhibitions at various festivals such as Rocket Festival "Boun Bunk Fai".

--The boxer is usually a direct practitioner of the art of "Muay Sieua Lark Hang" or "Muay Lai Lao"

--exhibiting this martial arts fluid and graceful movements, but each movement is performed with strength designed to take down or dispose of the opponent.

--It has many "death techniques" such as "Harng Sieu Sabat" Tiger's Death Tail.

--Currently sportsmen and "Muay Lai Lao" instructors have promoted and improved the style's artfulness and fuidity.

--but for the combatants "Muay Lai Lao" remains a style that's deadly and should not be taken lightly. Nowadays, "Muay Lai Lao" in Thailand still have in Sakolnakorn province. In any festival, people setup Muay Boran parade. Dress up in Muay Ancient style. They also have tattoos about tiger, Kruda or Snake in body parts and they have tattoos about plant on the legs in believe to have more powerful and loved by the girls. They also have Tra Krud and Mong Kol in believe these both items will help them safe. Before "Muay Lai Lao"(this term use in Luang Prabang,Vientiane,..of Laos) or "Rum Muay Lao"(this term use in Sakolnakorn province of Thailand) is adapt from animal movement. This is beautiful combination between arts and fighting arts. In the present days, Rum Muay Lao have three step. 1. Muay Boran parade 2. Wai Kru or Respect to the teachers. 3. Fighting(in Laos actually:Lao boxing or Muay Lao,and in Thailand actually:Thai boxing or Muay Thai). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.147.234.245 (talk) 21:56, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Presidential determination
Today, the White House released a memorandum stating: "Pursuant to the authority vested in me by section 2(b)(C) of the Export-Import Bank Act of 1945, as amended (12 U.S.C. 635(b)(2)(C)), I hereby determine that The Lao People's Democratic Republic has ceased to be a Marxist-Leninist country within the definition of such term in section 2(b)(2)(B)(i) of that Act."

- Presidential Determination 2009-21

What's this about? 18.26.0.5 (talk) 00:55, 13 June 2009 (UTC)


 * See . As I read that, this allows the Export-Import Bank of the United States to guarantee, insure, extend credit, or participate in the extension of credit to the Lao People's Democratic Republic. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 23:24, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Laotian Hmongs?
Are they all wiped out in a perfect ethnic cleansing? Where are the first settlers in this country?

Takima (talk) 13:04, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Links
Alrighty, what happened to the linking for the Flag and Coat of Arms in the infobox??? Fry1989 (talk) 23:45, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Inconsistencies
It seems the many articles about Laos are out of step - someone needs to take this in hand Michael Goodyear 20:33, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

New prime minister
I've updated the prime minister to the current incumbent (as of December 23, 2010) but I don't know how to change the picture in the Government section to that of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thongsing_Thammavong

The picture of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouasone_Bouphavanh is no longer applicable.

Hoyla (talk) 06:23, 10 January 2011 (UTC)


 * ✅ Grafen (talk) 17:43, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

French History
This section is located in the wrong place. Mattun0211 (talk) 06:56, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Population
I replaced the populaiton figure as I found a more up-to-date source (previous was 2008). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mattun0211 (talk • contribs) 09:49, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Lao Ethnic Makeup
The article says that the Lao Loum ethnic grouping are 69% of the population, the Lao Theung are 30% and the Lao Soung are about 10%. This comes to 110%. So, something must be wrong.

The 69% figure is given as 68% in the linked Wikipedia article on Lao Loum. I can't find where these very precise figures come from. No source is given.

In the text (page 516) the Footprint Guide to Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos gives the Lao Loum at a little under 50%, making them the largest group, but not a majority, with Lao Theung at 25% and Lao Soung at 'less than 20%'. However, in a table on page 517, they have Lao Loum 55%, Lao Theung 35% and Lao Soung 10%.

Britannica (link 30 in the Wikipedia article) gives Lao Loum 'about two-thirds', Lao Theung 20% and Lao Soum 10%: this adds up OK. But if this was the writer's source, I don't know why the writer has changed 'about two-thirds' to a precise 69%, and why the Lao Theung get boosted to 30%.

Link 29 in the article, for the Lao Theung, is actually a page of a Christian missionary group about one subgroup and gives no relevant figures. It should be removed as a reference, in my opinion.

The CIA handbook gives 55% 'Lao' (i.e Lao-speaking Lao Loum, presumably) but then breaks the figures for other groups down by tribe, not ethnicity; and does this only partially.

If anyone has reliable sources could they edit the article, please? I didn't touch it myself, because I don't have reliable data to replace it with. I was hoping to use the page for information myself.

Zosterops (talk) 00:29, 11 March 2011 (UTC)


 * The numbers in the demographics sections still don't add up. Under "Lao Loum" it says 60% of the population are ethnic Lao and then the last sentence says there is a 10% that are not ethnic Lao.  Lao Theung is listed as 30% and Lao Soung as 10%.  That's still 110%.  I think the Lao Loum section is meant to say that about 10% of the Lao Loum are not ethnic Lao, which, if the numbers for Lao Theung and Lao Soung are accurate, would mean that the first sentence would have to be changed to "about 50% of the country's people are ethnic Lao".  I don't know if that is correct, but seems to fit with the Language section which states that "only slightly more than half of the population can speak Lao".  However, the Lao people page says that Lao make up 68% of the population, and the Demographics of Laos page says in the text that Lao make up "the bulk of the Lao Loum and 60% of the overall population" but in the "Ethnic Groups" table lists ethnic Lao as 52.5% of the population in 1995 and 54.6% in 2005.  So not only do the percentages in this article not add up correctly, but all three articles contradict each other (with one even contradicting itself).  Does anybody have a source that can accurately synch these articles?--William Thweatt Talk | Contribs 20:58, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

NPOV
The "Government and politics" section is, simply put, lacking in this respect. The tone of writing is rather aggressive here and there ("This National Assembly, which essentially acts as a rubber stamp for the LPRP" instead of, say, "Durin period x, National Assembly has not contradicted LPRP") and sources are either less-than-neutral (Amnesty of International and The Centre for Public Policy Analysis) or lacking altogether. Röhmöfantti (talk) 14:18, 6 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Agree it needs an overhaul. Why don't you suggest any changes here? The parliament bit has no source so is WP:OR and should certainly be changed. I think I'm right in saying that Amnesty International is considered a reliable source. The CPPA is referenced from a reliable source (Bangkok Post if I rememebr correcntly) but I agree that there may be an issue with WP:WEIGHT and WP:NPV and that a secondary source would be advisable since they are essentially supporters of the Hmong side. The problem we may run into is that these events tend not to be reported so much in Laos. I think it's proabbly an issue of careful wording and finding some other sources - maybe the Vientiane Times had some sort of report? I agree, this section has long needed an overhaul. i think we need to be careful about WP:RS, WP:WEIGHT and WP:NPOV when we do it. Mattun0211 (talk) 15:43, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Most people are Lao with a significant proportion of indigenous religion as well? --Pawyilee (talk) 01:58, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Agree with the criticism of tone and content. I cannot comment on the accuracy of the remarks in this section, however I suggest the following changes: Replace: "Government policies are determined by the party through the all-powerful eleven-member Political Bureau and the 61-member Central Committee. Important government decisions are vetted by the Council of Ministers." With: Government policies are determined by the party through the eleven-member Political Bureau and the 61-member Central Committee. Important government decisions are vetted by the Council of Ministers.

Replace: "This National Assembly, which essentially acts as a rubber stamp for the LPRP, approves all new laws, although the executive branch retains authority to issue binding decrees." With: The National Assembly approves all new laws on behalf of the LPRP, whereas the executive branch retains authority to issue binding decrees.

Statistic on brain drain
I think that the sentence on this topic says something that sounds like something and may mean something to the initiated, but a clarifying phrase of some sort is probably in order. Does this mean that as soon as somebody gets an advanced degree there is over a 34% chance of departure within some particular time-period?Julzes (talk) 22:51, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Just re-iterating, now that I have looked at that article, it is unclear what the percentage means using wikipedia as a source. This may mean there is also a problem with the article on brain drain, or it may just mean that the sentence is unfixable.Julzes (talk) 01:51, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Watching the BBC's "World's Most Dangerous Roads" documentary they are continually pronouncing the country as Lao (l as in like, ou as in pout) with the s silent. I notice this is not listed as a pronounciation on the wiki page, so is it a legitimate variant or not? El Pharao (talk) 20:14, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

The Military Regions Laos was divided into five military regions from www.royalark.net/Laos/champasa2.htm, http://www.unforgettable-laos.com, http://laovoices.com/no-place-to-hide/
The Military Regions Laos was divided into five military regions two of which were located in the panhandle: Military Region I at Luang Prabang was dominated by the royal family and the former commander in Chief of the Royal Laos Army, General Oune Rathikul. The region commander was Brigadier General Tiao Say~vong, a half brother of the king. The region was located in northwest Laos and covered four provinces: Phong Saly,Houa Khong, Sayaboury and Luang Prabang. Military Region II, in the northeastern section of Laos, was under Major General Vang P.ao, the Meo guertilla war hero of Laos. It covered two provinces: Houa Phan (Samneua), and Xieng Khouang. The headquarters was at Long Cheng, northwest of the Plain of Jars. Military Region III in central Laos was headquartered at Savannakhet and covered two provinces; Khammouane(Thakitek) and Savannakhet. This region was commanded by General Bounpon and later by Brigadier General Nouphet Dao Heuang, in July 1971. The real power in this region was the Insixiengmay family led by Minister Leuam Insixiengmay, Vice Premier and Minister of Education.( his wife is elder sister of Mom bouanphan who is a wife of Chao Boun oum na champasack) Military Region IV, with headquarters at Pakse, included the six provinces of southern Laos: Saravane, Attopeu, Champassak, Sedone,Khong Sedone, and Sithandone (Khong Island). It was dominated by the Nachampassak family led by Prince Boun Oum Nachampassak. The commander of Military Region IV was Major General Phasouk S. Rassaphak, a member of the Champassak family. He commanded this area for almost a decade and a half until finally replaced by the author, Brigadier General Soutchay Vongsavanh, in July 1971. Military Region V contained Borikhane and Vientiane Provinces, the capital province of Laos, was headquartered at Chinaimo Army Camp and was led by Major General Kouprasith Abhay until he was replaced by Brigadier General Thongligh Chokbeng Boun in July 1~7l. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.182.122.49 (talk) 05:32, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Explosive stats
Since by the math of one statistic, we're led to believe U.S. B-52 bombers alone dropped 591,300 bombs on Laos (one every eight minutes for nine years), and they are the only source of bombardment cited specifically, who exactly conducted the estimate that 260 million bombs were dropped, leaving 80 million unexploded bombs? Who accomplished this astonishing feat of counting? To whom does the source credit the remaining 258,408,700 bombs?173.51.232.43 (talk) 02:33, 3 May 2013 (UTC)G. Solman
 * Massive aerial bombardment by the United States followed as it attempted to eliminate North Vietnamese bases in Laos in order to disrupt supply lines on the Ho Chi Minh/Trường Sơn Trail. Between 1971 and 1973 the USAF dropped more ordnance on Laos than was dropped worldwide during World War II (1939−45). In total more than 2 million tonnes of bombs were dropped (almost 1/2 a tonne per head of population at the time).

Etymology
The etymology section seems to imply that French "Laos" was first used in 1893. Indeed, John Crawfurd in May 1822 uses "Lao." In 1833, Edmund Roberts (diplomat) in digital image 245 of page 238 of his journal, describes a musical instrument called "ranat: it is made in Lao or Laos." In digital image 309 of p. 302: At the head of the Siamese administration is the supreme council, consisting of the following officers:— First: A president, a prince of high rank. When the mission was in the country, this office was held by the prince Khroma-luang-rah. Second: Chao-phaya-bodin-deeha or khroma-ha-thai, formerly called Chao-phaya-chakri. He has the general superintendance of the northern provinces adjoining Pegue, and of the principalities of Laos and Camboja. --Pawyilee (talk) 06:23, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

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Early history
In the Early history section, the final sentence says: From the fourth to the eighth century, communities along the Mekong River began to form into townships called muang, citing from Lao National Tourism Administration. However, according to Pittayawat Pittayaporn (2014), Proto-Southwestern Tai speakers only migrated to the modern territories of Laos and Thailand starting at the 8th century AD from Guangxi, China and the Muang is a native settlement of Tai speakers, so how come there were Muang settlements along the Mekong River between the 4th—8th centuries ? or a better question should be: is Lao National Tourism Administration a professional institute of history and linguistics ? how do they know when and where did the Tai-speaking tribes migrate ?

Therefore I suggest replacing the above sentence. Bookworm8899 (talk) 01:49, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

New Xaisomboun province since 2014
The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xaisomboun_Province has been upgraded from district to province since the 13th of December 2013, Need to update the maps. Check: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laos — Preceding unsigned comment added by Capiscuas (talk • contribs) 02:40, 18 December 2015 (UTC)


 * You should ask the Graphics Lab/Map workshop and submit a request for updating the map. I think they can help in creating the updated map. Ssbbplayer (talk) 04:29, 18 December 2015 (UTC)


 * I faced a similar situation last year when a Cambodian province was split. I found it easier (and quicker) to drop a note on the map author's page with a short explanation (including government sources) and asking if they had the time to produce an updated map. You can find the author of the current map here.--William Thweatt TalkContribs 04:48, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

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DPRK an exception
An IP keeps removing that sourced passage without an edit summary. Since the DPRK Royal Court Economy is said to comprise 60 percent of its entire economy, it difficult to still refer to it, by virtue of its 40 percent remaining command economy, as socialist. El_C 08:22, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

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Buddhism should be removed as a religion
Article Nine of the Lao Constitution states: ''The state respects and protects all lawful activities of the Buddhists and of other religious followers mobilizes and encourages the Buddhist monks and novices as well as the priests of other religions to participate in the activities which are beneficial to the country and people. All acts of creating division of religions and classes of people are prohibited.'' For Secular countries like the United States of America, no religion is put in the info box. Since the Constitution clearly states that all religions can be practiced, I think Buddhism should be removed as a religion in the info box. Holden3172 (talk) 18:26, 17 October 2016 (UTC)Holden3172
 * The mere fact that the constitution mentions Buddhism by name indicates that it has a special status. Ruslik_ Zero 20:32, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Maybe it has a special status, but it is still not the state religion.Holden3172 (talk) 00:40, 18 October 2016 (UTC)Holden3172
 * Our article State religion says a "state religion" is one "officially endorsed by the state". According to this, the Lao government provides "financial support and promotion of Buddhism" and "exempts Buddhist groups from a number of restrictions" placed upon other religions. It's pretty clear-cut that Theravada Buddhism is the de facto religion of Laos. A government doesn't have to be theocracy (or even mention a religion explicitly in its constitution, for that matter) to have a state religion. All that is required is that the state favor a particular religion over all others.--William Thweatt TalkContribs 04:01, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

I thought a religion was only put in the info box when it was a Theocracy, forgive me.Holden3172 (talk) 18:06, 18 October 2016 (UTC)Holden3172

It is not the state religion. Fanalysis (talk) 17:10, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

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Annamite Map of Laos and Vientiane during the 15th century
There is a map posted on Liam C. Kelley's blog called "The Map of the Great Savage Kingdom", describing Laos and Vientiane made in the 15th century by the Annamite. Gustmeister (talk) 13:21, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Water and Sanitation Poor sanitation can affect people health and national economy development. Annually, poor sanitation and hygiene problem cause three million disease cases in Lao, 6.000 premature deaths and the children in rural areas suffer from poor sanitation is very high at 49 percent in 2011 making 193 million dollar national economic loss per year, equivalent to 5.6% of GDP. In Laos, there are major incidences of dysentery and diarrhea caused partly by deficient sanitation, improper water supply and absence of adequate wastewater treatment facilities as a result of rapid increase in urban population. Laos people who can get access to sanitation in rural areas account for only 36 percent in 2004. The government in Laos adopt the Millennium Development as prepared collaborative by the United Nations, World Bank and International Mutual Fund to promote water supply and sanitation for its people to access safe drinking and basic sanitation.

The Mekong River plays an important role for Laos economy. The Mekong River basin covers nearly 90 percent of Laos country and drains toward Vietnam. In Laos, government encourages hydro-power investment which increase pressure on water and sea animal threats. the development of electricity in Laos and export to neighboring countries are essential for government revenues to reduce poverty. Although hydro-power does not pollute water or air directly, hydro-power reservoir and dam can impact the change in environment, land use and natural habitats. There are potential environmental consequences of damming water, creating gigantic reservoirs, flooding entire area, blocking natural course of river and constructing power lines. For example, the structure of dam and reservoir interfere fishing migration, and alter water temperature and river's flow; as a result. it may injure the live of sea animals and animals on land.

Fisheries contributes about 13 percent of Laos national GDP per year. Because Laos is covered almost by the Mekong River, people use stream directly for drinking, cooking, bathing and washing. However, as the population increases, watercourses that are used simultaneously for water disposal and water supply cause health issues like diarrhea and typhoid. Meanwhile, locals stated that before the upstream dams were built they could safely drink the Mekong River water. However, after the Xayaburi Dam in Laos is built, the water quality become contaminated. The water quality in Laos become even worse when a new dam is built in Don Sahong, less than 2 kilometer from the town, causing the population get diarrhea and inhale with bad air quality. More importantly, most population live near the Mekong river found dead fish floating in polluted water in the area between the Don Sahong Dam and Preah Rumkel (cambodia) which made their only source of water for drinking, cooking, fishing and every day chores as disaster.

Meanwhile, there is a high chance of getting malaria for those who live around the water which is surrounded by mosquitoes. Through the Millennium Development program, some progresses have been achieved over the past decade in improving healthy system in Laos. The number of health facilities increased by 75 percents, mortality from malaria reduced by 60 percent in rural areas. However, Lao population has been meet healthy living standard. In some rural areas, people are lacked of safe drinking water, chemical runoff, sewage and limited access to health services. For example, malnutrition, non-hygienic lifestyle, poverty are caused by inadequate public health services. Although Lao is one of the dominant renewable water resource in Asia, 25 percent of urban dwellers and 40 percent of rural Lao population are lacked access to safe drinking water. In certain location, villagers have to walk up to 2 kilometer to get access to water.

The environmental quality can essentially affect well-being and quality of live. Poor air quality is associated with premature death, cancer, and long term harm to respiratory and cardiovascular system. Furthermore, environmental health encounters from household air pollution appear to be significantly disproportionate which affect the poor population in Lao PDR. Most than 95 percents of Lao population use coal and wood for everyday cooking which can cause indoor air pollution and health issues with a life expectancy of 56 years in 2008. Recognizing this potential environmental health issue, the government starts pay close attention to poverty embraces important environment service such as access to safe water and sanitation.

Most of people live in urban area has little access to clean water for either personal use or irrigation purposes due to rising water pollution. Drinking water sources that are contaminated with harmful chemicals and human waste can cause diseases in children such as gastrointestinal illness, and developmental affects such as learning disorders and cancer. UNICEF works in Lao PDR to help ensure children and families in homes and schools have access to clean water and sanitation facilities. Many rural communities are unaware of appropriate sanitation and hygiene practices. Approximately 24% of the population practice open defecation, and only 28% of children’s faces are disposed of safely.

Hazardous chemicals that include heavy metals such as chromium, copper, zinc and persistent organic pollutants such as furans, dioxins and polychlorinated biphenyls are widely banned while Lao population are not fully aware of its catastrophic effects. As the population in Lao keeps growing, heavy mental contamination from industrial activities increases which lead to a concern toward rudimentary metal smelting facilities in the country and mining activities. Therefore, the surface water quality in downstream of mining and industrial activities become a potential problem for Laos well being.

Poly cyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) is one of the essential types of persistent pollutants of toxicity from natural resources and incomplete com busting of organic matter. According to Marine Pollution Bulletin journal article, the environmental distribution of PAHs in tropic Asia become a concern of this region as the grow of industrialization and urbanization due to a frequent rain inherent to tropic Asia in which facilitate the transfer of leaked petroleum from land to rivers and coastal water.

In most urban areas in Lao PDR, the pollutants from private properties wash into drains. Little, dirt and rubber compounds from metal, glass and plastic from properties contribute to sediments and nutrients.

References

"Lao People's Democratic Republic Strengthening Water Supply, Sanitation and Hygiene Sector Coordination in Laos PDR" (PDF). East Asia and Pacific. World Bank. Archived from the original (PDF) on 22 May, 2015. Retrieved 29 Nov, 2018. Check date values in: |access-date=, |date=, |archive-date= (help) "Lao PDR Environmental Monitor" (PDF). www.worldbank.org/lao. World Bank. Archived from the original (PDF) on |archive-url= requires |archive-date= (help). Retrieved Oct 18, 2018. Check date values in: |date= (help) "Global Water Supply and Sanitation Assessment 2000 Report" (PDF). www.un.org. Archived from the original (PDF) on |archive-url= requires |archive-date= (help). Retrieved 2018-11-29. Gaia. "Hydropower and the Environment". environment-ecology.com. Retrieved 2018-11-29. Discover, Kids. "What's Good and What's Bad about Hydropower? - Kids Discover". Kids Discover. Retrieved 2018-11-29. "Hydropower:More than just a barrier to fish migration" (PDF). European Commission. Science For Environment Policy. Archived from the original (PDF) on |archive-url= requires |archive-date= (help). Retrieved 11/29/2018. Check date values in: |access-date=, |date= (help) "Mekong River – Water Quality Woes – Scientists for the Mekong". www.scientists4mekong.com. Retrieved 2018-11-29. "Environmental Quality | Healthy People 2020". www.healthypeople.gov. Retrieved 2018-10-18. Mengersen, K.; Morawska, L.; Wang, H.; Murphy, N.; Tayphasavanh, F.; Darasavong, K.; Holmes, N. S. (2011-2). "Association between indoor air pollution measurements and respiratory health in women and children in Lao PDR". Indoor Air. 21 (1): 25–35. doi:10.1111/j.1600-0668.2010.00679.x. ISSN 1600-0668. PMID 20846211. Check date values in: |date= (help) "Water, Sanitation & Hygiene and Climate Change Resilience". www.unicef.org. Retrieved 2018-10-18. Dion, Laurie-Anne; Saint-Amour, Dave; Sauvé, Sébastien; Barbeau, Benoit; Mergler, Donna; Bouchard, Maryse F. (2018-01). "Changes in water manganese levels and longitudinal assessment of intellectual function in children exposed through drinking water". NeuroToxicology. 64: 118–125. doi:10.1016/j.neuro.2017.08.015. ISSN 0161-813X. Check date values in: |date= (help) "Persistent Organic Pollutants and the Stockholm Convention: A Resource Guide" (PDF). World Bank. World Bank and CIDA. Retrieved 11/29/2018. Check date values in: |access-date=, |date= (help) "Sources of sedimentary PAHs in tropical Asian waters: Differentiation between pyrogenic and petrogenic sources by alkyl homolog abundance". Marine Pollution Bulletin. 58 (2): 189–200. 2009-02-01. doi:10.1016/j.marpolbul.2008.04.049. ISSN 0025-326X. "State of water : Laos". www.wepa-db.net. Retrieved 2018-11-29.

Referecing and outdated problems
Around 80% of sentences and about half of paragraphs are completely unreferenced. Most of the article save for politics section seems to be stuck between 2010 and 2013 too. The economy section is the biggest offender in this regard Openlydialectic (talk) 08:30, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Are you aware of WP:WHYCITE? – Uanfala (talk) 19:45, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Hey, I've replied to you in detail on my talk page (everybody else interested in the issue - feel free to join). But in short, yes, and I don't think that's a good reason as to out of 273 sentences in the article 206 were completely unreferenced, including sections like history or politics that were entirely or almost entirely unreferenced Openlydialectic (talk) 21:03, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Glaring problem on the page

 * population_estimate_year = –

Geographyinitiative (talk) 09:46, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Pronunciation of Laos
The wording under Etymology is too strongly worded and editorialized (see bold, below) and not supported by the cited references. As of now (3/26/2020) it says: English-speakers often mispronounce "Laos", falsely believing that it should be pronounced with a silent 's', however the 's' in Laos should not be silent.

It is more factually accurate to state: In the English language, "Laos" is normally pronounced with the 's' (like 'blouse').

This is 100% factually accurate. I'd even be fine if the word "normally" was dropped from that (but I'd prefer it left in). However, the existing wording is overly exclusive of an important fact pointed out in the main blog post used to support the pronunciation (the Trip Savvy link): Although travelers who haven't visited the country tend to pronounce the "s" at the end of Laos, many long-term travelers moving through Southeast Asia tend to leave the "s" silent and use the pronunciation that sounds like "Lao" (rhymes with cow).

The reason long-term travelers pronounce it this way is that they are adapting to the way it is actually pronounced locally (by natives in particular). It is factually incorrect to state that pronouncing it "Lao" is wrong when that's how the natives pronounce it and many English-speakers choose to adopt this pronunciation. It's equivalent to saying that English-speakers are wrong for calling Germany by it's actual name (Deutschland). In English, it is normally pronounced 'Germany,' but 'Deutschland' isn't wrong. The exact same thing is true for 'Laos' being pronounced 'Lao'.

Xhandel (talk) 22:54, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Reply - oppose.
 * I disagree with almost every sentence of what you've said above, but the first point to make is...what's the actual reason to change here...you can't point to any actual issue with any of the reliable sources, and are simply engaging in original research based on your personal perception of what is accurate. The statements you have taken issue with are backed up by no less than five reliable secondary sources. The correct pronunciation of Laos as having an 's' has been in lede of this article since at least 2008. You're opposing a consensus of at least 12 years and five reliable sources...based on what...
 * You want to change it to say..."In the English language, "Laos" is normally pronounced with the 's' (like 'blouse')." Reliable sources say Laos should be pronounced with the 's', this is what the article says, whether you like it or not. You can't just airbrush this fact from the article. The sources also say that many people mispronounce Laos, and this fact is also included in the article. All these facts are already included in the article. But when deciding the proper pronunciation of the country in English, Wikipedia uses reliable sources, not personal opinion.
 * Your wording is also misleading because no source actually says what people "normally" do. The sources say that 'many' people mispronounce Laos, and this is precisely what the article says. "Many" and "normally" have totally different meanings in the English language. So you are once again engaging in original research with that edit and trying to contort the existing source to fit what you'd like it to say.
 * "The reason long-term travelers pronounce it this way is that they are adapting to the way it is actually pronounced locally (by natives in particular)." (A), this is once again original research - the tripsavvy article actually suggests the precise opposite of what you've said: suggesting that locals adapted to the tourists' ways rather than tourists adapting to the local ways. (B) The wikipedia article already makes it abundantly clear what Laotians call their country and how they pronounce it in the lao language. This fact is already included in the article. (C) You realise there is no word in the Lao language called "Laos", the statements you are objecting to are discussing the pronunciation of Laos in English...not the pronunciation of 'Pathet Lao' or 'Lao PDR' etc. (D) You are once again engaging in original research when you are talking about how local lao people pronounce a word in English. Here is a video of a lao man explicitly pronouncing Laos with the 's' when referring to the country: LINK, so don't generalise about how Lao people say x or y in English without evidence. (E) Even the Tripsavvy article says that every Laotian surveyed wished for Laos to be pronounced with the 's'. So please stop generalizing about what local people do/want: WP:No original research. (F) In any case, wikipedia's pronunciations of English words are based off of reliable sources not your opinion of how locals think.
 * "It's equivalent to saying that English-speakers are wrong for calling Germany by it's actual name (Deutschland). In English, it is normally pronounced 'Germany,' but 'Deutschland' isn't wrong." Umn...what...it is wrong to call Germany as Deutschland in English... The correct word for Germany in English is Germany. The correct word for Germany in German is Deutschland. Secondly, we're discussing the pronunciation of a word in English, the example you've just given doesn't relate to pronunciation at all. I do ask that we not go down the rabbit hole of analogies because that will only confuse things.
 * "The exact same thing is true for 'Laos' being pronounced 'Lao'." Five reliable sources disagree with you, including the world's most major dictionaries. Wikipedia simply works by summarising what reliable sources say, it is not a place for advocacy. Apples&#38;Manzanas (talk) 09:42, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Clearly my arguments and statements have not helped with my primary objection, so I am going to drop them and start over. (Sorry for not being more clear about my main objection from the start.)

(Starting over now...) I thank you for keeping me honest and in offering thoughtful responses to my statements. My primary objection from the start has been the wording and word choice used. I do not disagree at all that, in English, Laos is pronounced with the 's' (with the exceptions I already noted, but am fine ignoring here). However, the current word choices (no matter when they were added) amount to editorializing (WP:EDITORIALIZING) and possibly other style issues. It is much clearer and more concise to state the simple fact that I suggested: In the English language, "Laos" is pronounced with the 's' (like 'blouse'). This mirrors the tone and wording used for In the Lao language... and is almost a direct quote from one blog post. Most importantly, it removes unneeded and unnecessary words that fail to maintain an impartial tone in the article, as required by Wikipedia. While I do maintain my own opinions on the subject, I hope you can understand that (in the end) I am seeking honest improvement to the text.

Xhandel (talk) 14:45, 27 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Reply: Okay starting over...There is no issue with impartiality when the words in the text are backed up by all of the reliable sources. If you can find significant reliable sources to the contrary, then wikipedia's policy on neutrality requires that both of these view points be discussed (WP:Neutral point of view). But, as you just agreed, Laos is pronounced with the 's' in English...So all the sources are doing is stating a fact and this fact is not in dispute. The policy on editorializing is irrelevant here, that is more about avoiding opinion in the language e.g it would be editorialising if the text said "unfortunately" or "sadly" English speakers often do X. But the article uses regular academic language at the moment which simply summarises the sources so there isn't an issue with editorialising. Apples&#38;Manzanas (talk) 17:30, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

"Ai Lao" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Ai Lao. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 November 3 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 08:30, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

'plateaus' and 'plateaux'
We have both of these in this article. Is 'plateaux' some regional English usage? --142.163.194.156 (talk) 15:28, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

"one of the only"
"one of the world's only socialist states openly endorsing Communism" Are there any socialist states clandestinely endorsing Communism? But in any case, does this article mean "the only" or "one of the ... few"? --142.163.194.156 (talk) 15:32, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

"association football"
Was this article written in 1920?--142.163.194.156 (talk) 15:49, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

the Mongols
Laos had dealings with the Mongol (Yuan) Empire / Mongol troops were in Laos - this should be mentioned in the history section - many RS's are available. 50.111.52.253 (talk) 05:26, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Suggestion for section on science and technology
Hi, just a suggestion, many country articles have sections or subsections for 'science and technology', this could be a section on this article as well. The UNESCO Science Report may be a good place to start and can copied from directly using these instructions.

Thanks John Cummings (talk) 12:52, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:54, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Emblem of Laos.svg

French pronunciation
In the first sentence, Laos is supposedly pronounced \lɑ.œ̃\ in French. As a Native French speaker, I have never heard this pronunciation. It's usually \la.os\ or \la.ɔs\. 2A02:8440:240E:701B:303E:8CE6:2680:24E7 (talk) 23:56, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of "Template:Largest cities of Laos"
Template:Largest cities of Laos has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 10:55, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 August 2018 and 22 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Tddang14. Peer reviewers: Josephbell21.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 02:13, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2018 and 22 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Emily Ky.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 23:55, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Government and politics
The main source is BBC, January 2018, more than 4 years ago. The BBC Profile says that the government is Communist. So the claim, that the country is socialist, is unsourced. Xx236 (talk) 10:06, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
 * 'Independence and Communist rule (1953–present)'. So we have two parallel worlds.Xx236 (talk) 10:08, 18 July 2022 (UTC)