Talk:Legal smoking age

Russia
Where is Russia? Why didn't you guys include Russia? Even Ukraine and Belarus are represented. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.54.197.3 (talk) 10:57, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Smoking age in Japan
The smoking age in Japan is unclear. Under the table for Asia, it's listed as 18, but under the heading for Japan, it's listed as 20. What's the correct smoking age? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ihatefile007 (talk • contribs) 21:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Having been to Japan, and read the signs in the convenience stores, I know it's 20. Cornince (talk) 12:42, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Illegal?
Deleted claim that smoking is illegal in some countries, as no evidence shown on page.

Smoking age or Purchase age?
The list is ages one can legally purchase tobacco products, not the age one can legally use tobacco products. Either change the name or change the article so it is not so misleading.
 * You are splitting already fine hairs. Internationally speaking the purchase age and the usage age often, not coincidentally, match. If this differs in any particular country, I understand parts of Canada have this arrangement, it can be pointed out without any change to jurisdictions, like the UK, where it is the same age. 86.160.40.222 (talk) 12:43, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

In the UK there is no minimum age for the possession or use of tobacco, only its sale is governed by law. Use of the expresssion 'de jure' in this article's table is highly misleading. Examinator (talk) 14:05, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Those involved in editing this entry, need to understand that it is neither illegal to purchase, nor illegal to smoke, nor possess, cigarettes or tobacco at *any* age, in the United Kingdom (and almost certainly in many of the other jurisdictions included in the piece). What *is* illegal is the *sale* of these products to people under 18 in the UK. There is therefore no "smoking age" at which it is legally permissible at all - only merchants can fall foul of the law for making sales to underage customers.

Given that smoking kills the astronomical numbers of people which it does, it is a matter of the utmost practical and moral urgency that this article adhere to the facts, and set them out correctly and dispassionately. Examinator (talk) 13:54, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Australia
It says that it is illegal 4 secondary purcahse of ciggarettes..for minors...in Victoria i work at safeway....SECONDARY PURCHASES r only aloud for ciggarettes...alchol it is illegal 4 secondary purchases....so if some1 buys alchol for some1 under 18 the shop and the person buying get in trouble....for some minor comes to the counter with a friend ova the age of 18 and says i want winfield blue 25's...and the person ova 18 has id and we ask him 4 it...and and he/she gives us the money he can buy it for a minor...its only alchol that some1 cant buy 4 minors in australia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.110.168.248 (talk) 14:06, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Citation please. It's not that I don't believe you, you've just failed to give any sources for this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.160.40.222 (talk) 12:44, 14 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I believe, on an unrelated note, that the age of consumption in Australia has been raised to 18, in line with the age of purchase. I will provide a source once I find one, but t changed around 3 - 5 years ago, I believe. CybergothiChé (talk) 11:47, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

United States
Okay, this article used to have a section for the United States; it was removed on February 16th. Is there a reason why, or was this an act of vandalism that went unnoticed? --DearPrudence (talk) 08:50, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

A number of communities in Massachusetts have age 19 or 21 for purchasing. Examples include, but are not limited to, Brookline, Dover, Arlington, Sharon and Canton. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stomv (talk • contribs) 22:33, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Smoking age vs purchase age in some Canadian Provinces
I think the article should have some note in the Canadian section about smoking age vs purchase age because in some provinces, namely Saskatchewan, it is legal to have and smoke tobacco products as long as they have been given to the underage user and not purchased, the purchase age is 18. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.128.80.113 (talk) 22:10, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Smoking age in China?
There's no heading for China in any part of the article. It doesn't have a legal smoking age (i.e. anyone can smoke) but I think it should still be included nonetheless. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ztobor (talk • contribs) 01:34, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Deleted citations
I've deleted 2 citations pertaining to smoking age in Alabama and Alaska because the website doesn't say anything about the specific age. I also removed New Jersey because their official website says that it's 18. http://www.state.nj.us/health/as/laws.htm Amn12 (talk) 10:14, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Map
A map would be great. I'm new to Wikipedia, will try to make one when I'm able to. I don't know how to modify a map yet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Baltshazzar (talk • contribs) 06:27, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I wonder if a map would really add all that much compared to the list of countries that's already there? Is it being pretty for the sake of being pretty? 86.160.40.222 (talk) 12:58, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

The information in this article is SERIOUSLY misleading and should be changed immediately!!
I don't know where the author(s) of this piece get their information, but let us be completely clear here - in the United Kingdom, there is *no* age at which the possession of tobacco is illegal. Anyone, even a baby, may possess cigarettes without contravening any law. There is law in the UK which prohibits sale of tobacco to under 18s - which is an entirely different matter altogether.

And from which official source can I ask, does the author have evidence that a law exists enabling policemen to confiscate cigarettes from minors??! Examinator (talk) 13:51, 9 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I have removed the uncited claims about a minimum age for possession or use in the UK, and added a reference to the Children and Young Persons Act 1933 for the duty of constables and park keepers to confiscate. DuncanHill (talk) 14:03, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

That's fine, but the top of the article ("legal smoking age") still gives the impression that the legality of smoking is age-dependent, which in the UK it is certainly not. I doubt a minimum age applies in other jurisdictions either, and there should be a far clearer distinction between smoking and possession on the one hand, and sale on the other.

The "duty" statute citation is interesting. It would be yet more interesting to know or have a link to (another article delaing with), the legal positions of the protagonists in the action of confiscation, since, if such confiscation is not provided for in law, then it has no legal tenure, and turns instead into theft. Examinator (talk) 14:32, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

And, the table at the bottom of the article still persists with the contention that it is 'de jure' illegal to smoke at under 18 in the UK, which it is not. When is this going to sink in? Examinator (talk) 14:38, 9 December 2009 (UTC) - Just to get this clear:

''Until October 1st. 2007:'' it was illegal to sell tobacco and cigarette papers to minors under the age of 16. It was also illegal to consume tobacco under the age of 16 in public, and every constable had the duty to seize tobacco from minors under the age of 16. This was regulated under the "Children and Young Persons Act 1933 - Sec. 7"

''From October 1st. 2007: The new legislation came into effect - the "The Children and Young Persons (Sale of Tobacco etc.) Order 2007"'' stated that it was illegal to sell tobacco products or cigarette papers to under 18s. This changed the Ammendments (1), (1A) and (2) of the "Children and Young Persons Act 1933 - Sec. 7" but (3) was not changed which caused the following problem: From then on it was illegal to sell tobacco to minors, but it was still legal for 16 and 17 year olds to consume them in public.

So this are the facts:
 * Selling: It is illegal to sell tobacco to any person under the age of 18. "Children and Young Persons Act 1933 - Sec. 7 (1), (1A) and (2)"
 * Posession: It is not illegal for anyone to possess tobacco in public. (There is no age limit, the age limit of 16 only applies if one is found consuming it in public!)
 * Consumption: It is illegal to consume and possess tobacco under the age of 16. It is the duty of any police officer to seize tobacco products and cigarette papers from anyone under the age of 16. "Children and Young Persons Act 1933 - Sec. 7 (3)"

'''This only applies for England and Wales! Scotland and Northern Ireland have own laws which also include a ban for under 18s to possess and consume tobacco in public!''' Areatius 16:38, 13 December 2014 (CET)

Replacing article with table(s)
This article has problems, it is messy, has parts that are redundant and contradictory and largely uncited. So I was looking a replacing it with a table while adding more references. Since one number per country is too little for one article and since many country sections already cover other laws relating for tobacco, it would probably be best to change the name and focus to tobacco laws in general. My mockup is on my personal sandbox, but feel free to play with it. Note that it is very rough, is missing lots of data and has no references and most of the data there was taken from the current article. So what to people think? Samuell Lift me up or put me down 03:50, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Spain
I think in Spain legal smoking age is 18. I must say also that this "18 to purchase or 15 to smoke" IT'S NOT TRUE. Moreover, Royal Decree 192/2010 of March 4 DOESN'T EXIST. Maybe someone have to search true information before writing those things. --82.198.50.242 (talk) 01:06, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

United States and Smoking Age
This is in the article under the U.S.:

"Typically, nationwide, most retailers will not sell cigarettes or smokeless tobacco to any person younger than 18, with the exception of a number of southern states, involved in the production of tobacco for many generations, that allow the purchase and consumption of tobacco products at an age earlier than 16."

My understanding was that every state had the smoking age set at 18 at least, but this sentence seems to contradict that understanding. What states do this, and where is the source? Cornince (talk) 12:28, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

I just researched the 11 former Confederate states, and each of them prohibits the sale of tobacco to minors under the age of 18. I'm going to remove this sentence. Please do not restore it unless you mention the states in question and provide a reliable source. Cornince (talk) 12:42, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

In what year or era was smoking first restricted to adults in the United States? --FrancineFan3883 1:08 August 2, 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps better research should be done. It is not illegal for minors to smoke. Though several states including Arizona have made it a misdemeanor for a minor to possess tobacco products.. 64.121.165.241 (talk) 22:14, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Perhaps the IP should read the article. WRT the US it currently says "It is legal for persons under the age of 18 to smoke, however they cannot legally purchase the cigarettes." Meters (talk) 23:29, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Washington State has a statute on the books (70.155.080) making possession of tobacco products by minors a class 3 civil infraction with fines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:1C2:4D00:1636:B8DC:D0F0:7364:B0D7 (talk) 01:56, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Why the heck does the map say New Jersey's minimum age is 18? It says on the table that it is 19 and I know it is 19 because I live in NJ. I would edit the map myself but I have no clue how to. Somebody correct the map NOW!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Needforspeed888 (talk • contribs) 17:32, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Tables
The information in the tables seems to be different to that given further down the page.

Also as far as I am aware Sweden sets no age for consumption. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Igivein (talk • contribs) 23:59, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

European map
Why is listing info from 2006 relevant to this article? It might be confusing to some readers and is the information on both maps citable? There's no entry on some countries, such as Russia on the tables.

Schvass (talk) 17:17, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Article clean up
First off, the table that I created is messy, it need to be cleaned up. Secondly, Purchase age, and smoking age needs to be updated so just find me the info, and I will change them. Also, I see people changing regions on some counties, so I tried to find a definition for region, and couldn't. So instead of dividing the website, we better use these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Regions_of_the_world. We could also include the sub-region too, if we wanted to. If we/I/you did, it would look something like this

for example.

The page layout is bad. It needs to be redone. What I was thinking was to put the images on top and remove "The minimum legal age to purchase or smoke cigarettes or tobacco products varies from country to country. Ages range from 15 to 21" Because it is outdated,and look out of place now. Before I did the table, it didn't. See https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Smoking_age&oldid=586433358 if you where wondering this what it did look like right after I made my edit to add the table: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Smoking_age&oldid=586898984 Just can't believe it has been a year now.

Oh one more thing, I see people editing the table, changing the ages, and leaving, or adding ( data-sort-value="0" ) because they are copying code from one country to another, or changing the age to be more updated, and correct. What that does is screws up the sorting because it overrides the number with 0. So makes sure you remove it or change the value in it.

Reported vandalism by deleting some articles by a random user
Ive been seen possible vandalism by deleting articles, I undid edits to restore them. Any random user is a vandal? check the history to see them.(73.133.187.36 (talk) 21:29, 27 February 2016 (UTC))

What is elau?
Under Palau, elaus are mentioned twice, but there is no explanation of the word in English Wikipedia. Whatever it means, if it is important enough to be mentioned then it is important enough to be explained. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.65.237.205 (talk) 13:16, 23 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Betel Nut. 173.168.64.223 (talk) 01:33, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Information for Maine is incorrect
Purchase age is being phased up to 21. Smoking age will remain at 18.

http://www.pressherald.com/2017/08/02/maine-senate-overrides-lepage-veotes-on-handheld-device-ban-legal-age-for-tobacco/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.147.48.85 (talk) 19:51, 3 August 2017 (UTC)


 * ✅ Terrorist96 (talk) 20:47, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

New Jersey and Maine
The age for both New Jersey and Maine is now 21. The map should reflect that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Needforspeed888 (talk • contribs) 14:05, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Arkansas and Texas
https://www.kark.com/news/local-news/new-law-raises-statewide-smoking-age-to-21/1986958111

https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/gov-abbott-signs-bill-raising-smoking-age-in-texas-to-21

Map needs updating. 173.168.64.223 (talk) 01:36, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Sources needed for recent edit to US states and India
IP user recently updated a few entries in the table from 18 to 21, but did not provide any sources that reflect this. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Smoking_age&type=revision&diff=1000452617&oldid=1000448946 The edited entries include India, Nevada, North Dakota, West Virginia, and Wisconsin.

I was only able to find a possible new source for Wisconsin. http://wilawlibrary.gov/topics/tobacco.php https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2019/related/proposals/sb364 Also, for India, there are several news articles from as far back as Jan. 2020 on the 18->21 bill being drafted, but an article as recent as Jan 06 2021 is saying that said bill is *still* in the works. https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/government-looking-to-raise-minimum-age-of-cigarette-smoking-to-21-6310661.html

--Kenblu24 (talk) 05:22, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 24 January 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 06:39, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Smoking age → Legal nicotine age – The title Smoking age is only relevant for tobacco.

I suggest that we move the page to include: --Bawanio (talk) 14:11, 10 January 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Coffee  //  have a ☕️ //  beans  // 05:33, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Nicotini: An alcoholic beverage with added nicotine.
 * Category:Smoking_cessation
 * Example: Nicotine replacement therapy, example: Nicotine gum
 * Category:Nicotine_products_with_harm-reduction_claims
 * Example: Nicotine pouch


 * Neutral on page move, but if we do this, than we should also split the information about cannabis at the end of the article to a new page titled Cannabis age or Legal cannabis age, since cannabis contains no nicotine. Needforspeed888 (talk) 14:46, 10 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Do you support this move? --Bawanio (talk) 21:19, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose. I don't see the point of this move. The article title and scope is fine as is. Rreagan007 (talk) 06:22, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose Per WP:COMMONNAME. These other tobacco products have been around for a while, but it's called what it's called because cigarettes are by far the most common form of taking nicotine.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 12:22, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose it's clearly about tobacco products in general. It's not like Legal drinking age is about the age someone is allowed water—blindlynx 14:17, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose. "Smoking" is well-understood to mean tobacco use in this context.  A Google search for "legal nicotine age" turns up only 36 (!) hits for me on Google.  This means that the proposed title would violate WP:CRITERIA, since it does not have any kind of recognizability or naturalness.  162 etc. (talk)
 * I do think it's a bit weird to have a page that, in its first sentence makes clear its about tobacco products, not just smoking, but a title that indicates something different. It's a stretch to argue that something that swapped tobacco in the title wouldn't be immediately recognizable (if it was, anyone reading the article would be immediately confounded by its first sentence).--Yaksar (let's chat) 23:41, 25 January 2022 (UTC)