Talk:Mariah Carey/Archive 15

Age discussion
In this interview, which took place in 1991 at 1:17, she asks Mariah, "You're 21 now, is that right?" Mariah nods and says "Uh-huh". It aired on 10/24/1991 per the AP Archives for this TV show. Just throwing this out there. She really would have no real reason to being lying about it this early on. --Jennica ✿ / talk 10:58, 15 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Actually, when a celebrity is starting out is often exactly when they start lying about their age. And a young singer saying "Uh huh" on a televised interview, when they may well be nervous, isn't definitive when compared to sources like CBS News and her own hometown paper, which followed her from her earliest days. --Tenebrae (talk) 02:26, 16 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Everything else says 1970. This page just looks bad with 2 dates. -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Roaddawg71 (talk • contribs) 23:18, 18 January 2017 (edit) (undo) (thank)


 * Others would say it's an encyclopedia trying to be as accurate as possible and not arbitrarily choosing one over the other. --Tenebrae (talk) 23:22, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree with . It looks best. And it's just a 1 year difference. It's not like it's within a 5 year gap and it's up in the air like that, though I really believe it's 1970.--Jennica ✿ / talk 23:25, 18 January 2017 (UTC)


 * In the interest of making this article as accurate as possible, I recommend that we make it clear in the article that both Mariah and her Mother have consistently stated she was born in 1970 since the beginning of her singing career. Mistercontributer (talk) 01:13, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
 * And maybe add that there have been conflicting reports of her birth year. --Jennica ✿ / talk 01:25, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

My two cents: Keep both years. I think that is not SYNTH but we have "reliable sources by different criteria that could be include twice and remain with neutrality in the article. We don’t have to act as judges of the information, we have to present both realities and let the readers decide what to think and what to do with both facts in the spirit of verifiability, not truth. Chrishonduras  (Diskussion ) 01:50, 19 January 2017 (UTC)


 * I agree, but we should include all of the relevant information in the article, per above. Mistercontributer (talk) 22:26, 19 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Well, we have six footnotes already, three and three. I guess we can have more, as long as we retain balance. --Tenebrae (talk) 22:30, 19 January 2017 (UTC)


 * An explanation in a footnote looks good. This article is a little long but verify this essay please. Regards, Chrishonduras  (Diskussion ) 00:04, 20 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Not sure what you mean by verify, but that link is an essay. They're not guidelines, policies or manual of style items, but just discussions that may or may not be useable and pertinent. --Tenebrae (talk) 00:06, 20 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Nevermind! actually. I knows that is an essay but is a recommendation. I tried to talk about the "retain balance" about the weight or something. But my opinion is add a footnote about this problem of her age. Chrishonduras  (Diskussion ) 00:10, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
 * And I'm saying we already do have a footnote with six citations, three on each side, and we say in two places "sources vary". I'm in total agreement with you, and sayng that the article already does these things. --Tenebrae (talk) 00:16, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

might mean the kind of note in a "Notes" section at the bottom. But I don't even know if most of the casual readers who come to wikipedia click on those? I think the way it is is fine but a note couldn't hurt. --Jennica ✿ / talk 01:50, 20 January 2017 (UTC)


 * With the "footnote" looks good. But with the Note in a "Notes" section can be added, maybe, if we explain more context with a little more text as well. However, the most important thing is present the information. I'm neutral about one thing or the other thing. Regards, Chrishonduras  (Diskussion ) 03:48, 20 January 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm certainly all for whatever conveys neutral information best. I'd like to ask whoever is suggesting an expanded Notes section what it would say that's different from the neutral data the footnote currently gives. Is there proposed wording? --Tenebrae (talk) 18:59, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Mariah born in 1970
Mariah born in 1970, Patricia Carey say in 1998 at Oprah Karen Salles (talk) 16:45, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
 * See previous thread on her birth year. Snuggums (talk / edits) 16:47, 31 January 2017 (UTC)


 * FYI: Mariah Carey | On The Record (quoting:) "According to People Magazine, "we have a copy of Ms. Carey's driver's license, which lists her birthday as March 27, 1969. Furthermore, we spoke with the administrators at the high school she attended who confirmed that Ms. Carey's birthday is March 27, 1969, as did her management when we made our initial interview." Gustont (talk) 08:10, 6 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Same comment previously posted. Suggest reviewing article talk archives regarding this subject using search function. - Mistercontributer (talk) 23:53, 6 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Sorry, didn't read all the talk page as I ain't Carey's fan, and don't even know yet how I got into this... But wondering if the Radaris.com is a reliable source. Based on this, she's 47 for the moment, so in March 2017 should be turning to 48. That would support 1969 as her birthday year. Gustont (talk) 00:46, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Someone has to add categories Irish and Venezuelan descents
I am unable to add the following categories: Can someone help to add them. Thanks in advance. Wayiteshakyn (talk) 19:07, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Category:American people of Irish descent (from mother side)
 * Category:American people of Venezuelan descent (from father side)
 * those aren't worth adding per WP:Overcategorization when they aren't exactly defining traits she's prominently noted for. Snuggums (<b style="color:#454545">talk</b> / <b style="color:#454545">edits</b>) 20:26, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Associated Acts
I reduced the number of people named in the IB as "Associated Acts". This has been discussed before. Really, none of these people are "associated acts". None of these people collaborated with Carey for a significant period of time across multiple projects, except as producers, rather than "acts", per this. Pinging User:IndianBio and Snuggums, who commented on this issue. It would be better to eliminate this parameter from the infobox, as it certainly does not give a balanced view of the most important facts concerning Carey. -- Ssilvers (talk) 16:50, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if outright removing the parameter from here is needed, but its listings definitely should be limited. <b style="color:#454545">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#454545">talk</b> / <b style="color:#454545">edits</b>) 17:03, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
 * If we cannot establish that so and so act has been impactful in Carey's musical career, then no point in keeping associated act. — I B  [ <b style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;color:#1C1CF0;">Poke</b> ] 06:26, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 29 May 2017
change Mariah Carey's birth year to 1970 ErinCummins1997 (talk) 09:27, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —   IVORK  Discuss 10:29, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
 * There already are citations provided, but per many previous conversations, both 1969 and 1970 are to be included as they're both often used in sources unless someone can find a reference giving definitive proof beyond any reasonable doubt it was one year or the other. <b style="color:#454545">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#454545">talk</b> / <b style="color:#454545">edits</b>) 12:39, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Mariah's mother also said she was born in 1970 in an interview with Oprah in 1999 (@2:25) about the struggle of being bi-racial in America ... just putting that into the world Teammm  $talk email$ 22:53, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
 * That has been brought up before, and while I personally find that viable, it has previously been rejected due to the possibility (even if improbable) that Patricia was also lying about Mariah's age. <b style="color:#454545">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#454545">talk</b> / <b style="color:#454545">edits</b>) 02:16, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 June 2017
Please note that under "Personal Life" it states that "On January 21, 2016, Carey and Australian billionaire James Packer announced that they were engaged.[342]" - yet on James Packer's entry it states, "On 21 January 2016, Packer and American singer Mariah Carey became engaged.[83] In October 2016, the couple broke up.[84]" This can also be confirmed in a recent article that mentions the fact, http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Culture/Why-Mariah-Carey-is-being-grilled-about-an-Israeli-corruption-scandal-498136 Life-Is-An-Adventure (talk) 09:10, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) 01:31, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Please change under "Personal life" from: "On January 21, 2016, Carey and Australian billionaire James Packer announced that they were engaged.[342]" to: "On January 21, 2016, Carey and Australian billionaire James Packer announced that they were engaged; [342] in October 2016, Packer and Carey broke up." The reference for the breakup in the James Packer Wiki listing (reference 84) is: http://www.womansday.com.au/celebrity/hollywood-stars/james-packer-dumps-mariah-carey-16926 Another reference is: http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Culture/Why-Mariah-Carey-is-being-grilled-about-an-Israeli-corruption-scandal-498136 Life-Is-An-Adventure (talk) 11:05, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:22, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Year of birth
Mariah Carey was born in 1970. This was never disputed until a few years ago. You can google her children's birth certificate if you still need convincing. Never152 (talk) 19:52, 8 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Untrue. People magazine's earliest stories about her give a 1969 birth date. And given the year she graduated high school, a 1970 birth date would mean she started her senior year at 16. Unless you're double-promoted, which no evidence has ever suggested of her, no one starts senior year at 16. But reliable sources gives both 1969 and 1970, so we give both. --Tenebrae (talk) 21:39, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

Exactly True
I too have noted that Carey's buyout was at $28 million not $50 million. After poor sales of the "Glitter" album, the first album for her under Virgin Records, Virgin used a clause in the deal that allowed them to end the $80 million contract with Carey, and pay her $28 million to void the contract. It was not a decision by Carey to be dropped from the label's roster, it was a decision by Virgin to drop her as they felt they wanted to cut their losses. A five-album deal on $80 million meant they would have to pay her $16 million as soon as she turned an album's masters in to them. They would have already spent millions on the recording of the album itself, then they would need to manufacture the album in CD and vinyl form, distribute it around the world, and pay for promotion and marketing on the album. This on top of the $16 million they have to give her for turning in the masters to the album. After the poor sales of "Glitter", Virgin felt they were not going to make this money back doing this process on each and every album for five albums. Initially they thought they would based on Carey's previous sales history. So Virgin wanted to cut its losses and avoid losing any more money on the deal. So the company voided the contract, which the contract stated it can do, for $28 million to Carey. The article should be updated to show the contract was voided for $28 million, not $50 million. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.209.95.237 (talk) 21:23, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Tell Actual Truth In Article
Mariah Caret DID NOT have a $100 million dollar deal with Virgin Records. She had an $80 million deal with Virgin Records. Virgin had a totally separate agreement, that had nothing to do with Carey, with Columbia records to let Carey out of her contract early. Carey still owed Columbia Records one more album even after the "Rainbow" album. Carey obviously could not sign another recording contract while contracted to another record label and both Columbia Records and Carey had had enough of one another by that point. So Virgin offered to sign Carey to an $80 million deal and it offered Columbia $20 million to let her out of her contract, and Columbia accepted. That $20 million dollars went to Columbia's pockets; stop stating that Carey signed a $100 million deal, that is untrue. Carey didn't see that other $20 million, that was Columbia's money. Carey's deal was worth $80 million. When her first album on Virgin, the soundtrack to "Glitter", sold poorly, and the label had to slash the price of the first single "Loverboy" to 99 cents to spur sales (and it was unheard of at the time for a major music act to have a 99 cent single) Virgin dropped Carey from the roster just a few months after releasing the album. Under their $80 million deal, Virgin used a clause in the contract that allowed them to escape the deal by paying Carey $28 million and ending the contract. Virgin chose to do that and cut its losses instead of paying Carey the remainder on the $80 million deal. This left Carey without a record deal. She later signed a smaller deal with Island Records.

So to go over some of what's inaccurate in the article and what should be corrected, as this is an internet encyclopedia and Wikipedia should do its due dilegence to make sure articles in Wikipedia have correct information:

Mariah Carey's deal with Virgin Records was an $80 million deal, not $100 million. The article is inaccurate.

Virgin paid $28 million to end the Virgin-Carey contract, not $50 million. The article is inaccurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.209.95.237 (talk) 23:41, 8 August 2017 (UTC)


 * The cited BBC article says £70 million, which currently is about $90.85 million. And despite the hubristic tone of your post, you haven't supplied a single footnote to support your claim. Are we supposed to take some anonymous person's word for it? Honestly, does that make sense to you, than an encyclopedia would just "take your word for it" without any documentation? Please see WP:VERIFY. --Tenebrae (talk) 01:05, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Of course I have a hubristic tone in my post, because I'm confident in what I'm saying. This Wikipedia article has incorrect information. And you don't have to take my word for the information I sited, research it. That's not hard. It was an $80 million dollar deal for Carey and $20 million to Columbia to let her out of her contract with Columbia early. Carey's camp then hyped it to the media as a $100 million deal because that's what it cost Virgin to make it happen. Yes, it cost Virgin $100 million but Carey's part of that agreement would have been for $80 million. The other $20 million went to Columbia to release her. Then Carey lost that deal when Virgin paid her $28 million to end the contract after the first album didn't sell well. Carey's camp had initially promoted the whole $100 million that it cost Virgin, instead of just promoting the $80 million that was Carey's own personal contract. She had nothing to do with that $20 million that went to Columbia Records. It doesn't matter if Virgin gave Carey an $80 million contract, gave Columbia $20 million, and gave Joe Schmoe who lives down the street $20 million. Does that mean Carey got a $120 million contract? No, Carey would still have her same $80 million contract regardless of whoever else received what. You DON'T count what everyone else received from Virgin -she personally had an $80 million contract. And that would have been a good contract had she not lost it one album later. But she got $28 million from Virgin when the company ended the deal, so it was still a good royalty year for her. I don't need to post footnotes, research it. Don't believe the hype, believe the facts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.209.95.237 (talk) 19:57, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Each person making edits to Wikipedia is required to supply their own documentation to support their claims. --Tenebrae (talk) 21:54, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Editor violating RfC consensus
User:Cp89 has been edit-warring today at this article in violation of an RfC consensus over a BLP issue, her birth date. I have explained WP:BRD at this editor's talk page, and I direct this editor to the closed RfC at Talk:Mariah Carey/Archive 9, which states a consensus for both years because of different Tenebrae (talk) 21:59, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 August 2017
Her birth year was 1970. 96.35.164.134 (talk) 02:14, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Per consensus at Talk:Mariah Carey/Archive 9, both 1969 and 1970 are to be included due to common usage until someone can find definitive proof beyond any reasonable doubt (i.e. a birth certificate) that it was one year or the other. It would also require new consensus once such evidence is found and established to be completely certain. <b style="color:#009900">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 02:28, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 September 2017
For news article or newspaper article: If the newspaper requires a subscription to access the article, include “[Subscription required]” after the journal or publisher name:
 * publisher = The Musical Times [Subscription required] |

}} Fatoucamille (talk) 18:01, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 6 May 2018
Mariah was born in 1969, not 1970 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X13ukug6-3M) at 2:25 in the video, she said her and Brett Ratner are born a day apart, his birthday is March 28, 1969. Damienmerasty72 (talk) 21:51, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 22:20, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Her birth year remains disputed when (as noted in past threads) different sources give different years and a concern has also been raised about Mariah potentially lying about her age. <b style="color:#009900">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 01:57, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Protected
why is protected to keep others from editing? Mariahskinny (talk) 06:41, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
 * It is only semi-protected and that's because many IPs and new accounts (registered for four days or less) had been disrupting the article before. Once one has made at least 10 edits and has bee registered for at least four days, they'll then be able to edit semi-protected pages like this. <b style="color:#009900">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 09:37, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Add info about sexual harassment allegation?
Was looking over this article and wondered why Carey's sexual harassment allegation is not mentioned. Is there some reason I don't know of that I am missing? SwineHerd (talk/contribs) 12:34, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
 * There was once a claim of harassment added citing TMZ, but that's known to be a dubious reference that often gets details wrong, and we can't maintain unsourced or poorly sourced claims (especially if personal and/or contentious) on the living per WP:Biographies of living persons. I haven't come across anything credible that isn't TMZ or basing their reports off of TMZ. <b style="color:#009900">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 13:05, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

The record shows she was born in 1970.
Can we change this "1969 or 1970" thing? It's obvious she lied about it in interviews, but government records don't lie. EverythingIsLove (talk) 03:45, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Per previous talk page discussions, both years are to remain unless somebody can provide definitive proof beyond any reasonable doubt that it was one or the other. You would need to provide a government record link for 1970 if that exists. <b style="color:#009900">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 04:05, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Mariah Carey's mother Pat states publicly that Mariah was born in 1970
Here is Pat Carey, Mariah's biological mother, stating on the Oprah show, in Mariah's presence, that Mariah was born in 1970: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNnyGcVk0Oo&feature=youtu.be&t=2m23s — Preceding unsigned comment added by OneWorldOneWiki (talk • contribs) 06:22, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
 * This has been rejected in multiple previous threads as a potential lie (as odd as that might be). I would personally use that if it were up to me, but people in the past have insisted we include 1969 and 1970 in the article when both are frequently given in publications unless something like a birth certificate can be found that proves one year of the other true beyond any reasonable doubt. <b style="color:#009900">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 11:39, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 October 2018
Add this to the section on her new album Caution:

Mariah Carey announced the North American leg of her Caution World Tour in 2019 which will be in in support of the her 15th studio album Caution. Onlinecrates (talk) 22:58, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. <b style="color:#060">L293D</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b> • <b style="color:#000">✎</b>) 02:06, 23 October 2018 (UTC)