Talk:Neo: The World Ends with You

Western localization
I ask the permission to add section regarding radical difference in Western/English localization of the game, please. Greener Meaner Green Goblin (talk) 16:36, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
 * You need reliable sources that discuss the issues of the differences in localization and not just player/forum aspects. --M asem (t) 16:42, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Didn't post any player/forum source, so I don't see where's the problem. It's obvious that sources can present screenshots of people on social media lamenting/showing a problem/topic showing also photos and screenshots, but that doesn't make the sources unreliable, since many considered reliable sources used on Wikipedia (along with the content in articles' sections) mention/talk about topics or problems discussed on the Internet, nor makes them forum sites. Greener Meaner Green Goblin (talk) 21:02, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Nope, we can't use social media sources. We need reliable sources from WP:VG/S that discuss the translation issues. --M asem (t) 00:29, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

In fact they are not social media sources. I already said it. Greener Meaner Green Goblin (talk) 01:10, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * You just said that you were going to use social media sources. Regardless, we cannot use player feedback as the source for claims of bad translation, nor can we as editors make the claim ourselves as that would be original research. --M asem (t) 01:16, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

No, I said I would have used sources that could MENTION social media, like many others do. And no, not direct players' feedback or forum sites, I said it. Please, I'm getting tired. Also because is late night where I live. Greener Meaner Green Goblin (talk) 01:36, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Got it? Greener Meaner Green Goblin (talk) 13:51, 1 May 2022 (UTC)


 * These sources that mention social media would still themselves need to be what we consider reliable sources. --M asem (t) 14:19, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Responding to the following post-edit message: "Read our policy on WP:RS., there's no evidence of being a reliable source."

No offense and I really don't want to seem or be disrespectful or in bad faith, but if we put it that way, as I said, I don't see evidence of Sankaku Complex being a non-reliable source either, and I could say the same about many mainstream and official sources (like journals) considered reliable and acceptable/accepted on Wikipedia that also wrote and even still write false or inaccurate information or articles with biased tones, even about pop-culture. Plus, as I said, I saw other articles written by Sankaku Complex on Wikipedia either in English and other languages (like Japanese, Italian, Spanish and French Wikis), and I don't remind it being even among the deprecated sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greener Meaner Green Goblin (talk • contribs) 17:54, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * We are looking for signs of editorial oversight from sources. Bounding into Comics has a clear editorial staff so that's fine. Sankaku Complex has nothing that suggests that and instead is presented as a series of blogs. As such, we can't use it. There may be other sources (which are referenced in the Sankaku Complex articles)_ that could be used instead. --M asem (t) 18:05, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

"As with other Japanese video games released in the last year," would need a citation. "Modern western progressive politics" is clearly intended to invoke feelings that Japan's politics do not have any of these things, and is very indicative of someone fetishizing Japan over an image of it that exists only in their head. It is also, y'know, a pretty vague and subjective comment to make and doesn't fit Wikipedia's guidelines. "Not typical of Japanese culture and society" my dude, video games aren't typical Japanese culture. "The characters would also[...]" this is just poorly written. NarkySawtooth (talk) 22:20, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

As I already explained, anti-capitalism, cultural appropriation references and French anarchist socialism and related propaganda (either in pop-culture and in real life in Japan) is not typical or normal in Japanese culture and society (and they're even clearly in contrast to them), it's simply a cultural fact (something you can understand also from the original Japanese localization and voice-acting). And yes, videogames are typical Japanese culture if those videogames are made in Japan and reflects and are made to reflect Japanese culture, same for manga and anime. And yes, still talking about "poorly written", I wrote "would" and/or "would have" to maintain a neutral tone, and these alterations in translation/localization happened to other Japanese videogames recently in the West, so? Greener Meaner Green Goblin (talk) 17:36, 3 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Is graffiti typical of Japanese culture? Is vandalism of consumer symbols pro-capitalist? Do Japanese people, especially street artists, often call things 無? Why are there no mentions of the dialogue that was changed due to copyright reasons?
 * The answer to the last one is that Wikipedia doesn't document every little objection someone has to a localization. In the case of your citation, it's a single tweet from someone that used Google translate. And I checked. They said they used Google translate. And that note, you said you lived in Japan for a while; Do you know what 私はうどんです means? Narky Sawtooth (talk) 12:36, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I still think it is WP:UNDUE to have one section based on one source. The controversy is not really that notable/important, and should be confined to at most one sentence. OceanHok (talk) 13:18, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Again and again, you, Narkysawtooth, still saying it's a Twitter source knowing exactly is not true, and no, there's no mention anywhere about changes in localization for 'copyright reasons', and still you didn't debunk the fact that the things I mentioned before are not part of Japanese culture and society. And we're talking about radical changes and differences between Japanese and Western localizations, and the original game does not have any anti-capitalist quote, in fact the game itself is all but anti-capitalist, it's not "every little objection" material (we're on 4Kids levels here), if you don't know Japanese that's a problem of yours and shouldn't certainly be an excuse to keep me or anyone else from posting the section. And even if it were a Google Translate or any other translator taken translation, I'm sure no translator would ever confuse "Why would someone put up a picture of 104 like that? What a lack of taste!" with "Is this supposed to be 104? Uh-uh, we aren’t glorifying capitalism on my watch! Time to spray over it!", like they were similar or the same phrase, no translator is so broken. Oh, and by the way, よい試み. And OceanHok, I already said before that I changed the title and content to not include the word 'controversy' to focus primarily on the difference in localizations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greener Meaner Green Goblin (talk • contribs) 16:06, 5 May 2022 (UTC)


 * First, regarding me saying the citation is a Twitter source: Your source only cites a single Twitter post.
 * Second, "there's no mention anywhere about changes in localization for 'copyright reasons'" Yeah, there isn't. That's what I said. It's irrelevant. Nobody needs to point out that characters keep saying "the world ends with me" and "the world ends with you, so expand your world" for copyright reasons.
 * Third, the character in question is a vandal, not some ambassador of Japan. What the hell does it matter whether or not a vandal meets your fetishistic ideas of Japan? They're a character. The Japanese dialogue has a guy saying the world is garbage and needs to be erased, is that Japanese society?
 * Fourth, please try to tell me what 私はうどんです means. It is surprisingly relevant to this discussion. If you can do that I will certainly take you an ounce more seriously. Narky Sawtooth (talk) 16:56, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Fifth, Japan has one of the largest communist parties per capita.
 * Sixth, and silly of me to forget the most important point, the localization changes were made with full consent from the original Japanese team. Can you find any of the writers complaining? If you can, then we can certainly start talking from there. Narky Sawtooth (talk) 17:54, 5 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Checkuser note I've blocked initiator of this thread as a ✅ sock account.-- Jezebel's Ponyo bons mots 22:15, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Unity
Why's this got a [citation needed] flag on it? A quick look inside the PC version's installation directory confirms it 2607:FEA8:29E3:B200:8D3F:2A7E:1910:ABA (talk) 16:49, 14 May 2022 (UTC)