Talk:Sandwich/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

rugbrødsmad... and other things that are not sandwiches

rugbrødsmad (aprox translation: "rye bread meal") -- an "open faced sandwich" or "rye pizza" or any other thing you want to label or translate it to mean. More generally, it's a staple food some places in the world. Sure, the wikipedia article for rugbrød claims that it is "always" a sourdough base, but that doesn't mean everyone that makes rugbrod makes it sourdough, or for that matter, bothers to leaven it at all! So if your rugbrød bread wasn't leavened, maybe you're not eating "authentic" rugbrødsmad (after all, it's meant to be served on a bread that "always" has a sourdough base)

Really, I think that cultural & legal definitions / policies / rules / laws can be burdensome or even pointless at times:

• In the united states, you're really not ever supposed to market something as "white chocolate" because it contains no cocoa solids... neat eh?

• What about the german definition of beer? for the longest time, there was a law on the books that beer could only contain malted barley, hops and... oh wait, that's all that was allowed (as per the reinheitsgebot).

• Hair care products are marketed as helping to have "healthier looking hair" rather than "healthier hair" since some people inevitably argue that "hair is made ftrom dead cells and therefore is not alive / lacks any degree health" ... wasn't there a law somewhere about claims of "healthier hair"

So, basically I'm just saying that it really doesn't matter if someone argues one point or another. Especially on wikipedia where it's possible to fairly (WP:Neutrality) cover all angles of a subject whenever editors feel it's worth the effort... so long as you can last long enough to convince the administration, fellow wikipedians, or even appease the opponents that object most to an issue. --Kuzetsa (talk) 00:20, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

components of sandwitch :

1. bread 2. spread 3. fillings 4. garnish

1. bread:-brown bread, garlic bread —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.225.244.114 (talk) 16:00, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

KFC sandwich?

I've removed the interjection about KFC for a number of reasons. First, it's disruptive to the lead, in that it's breaking the flow of the first sentence. Second, mentioning the sandwich in the first line like that is a violation of WP:UNDUEWEIGHT. It is common sense that a sandwich involves bread, so to interject and say otherwise is disruptive. When other places start doing this, then we can discuss its inclusion. And third, the reference being given - for foodgeekery.com - is a dead site. In the interest of being inclusive, though, I've added text about the sandwich elsewhere in the article. — HelloAnnyong ^{(say whaaat?!)} 17:00, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

I gently disagree with "It is common sense that a sandwich involves bread", as there are a growing number of non-bread sandwiches being promoted as such, especially throughout North America and Asia. Inversely, the statement in the opening sentence "A sandwich is a food item made of one or more slices of bread[1] with one or more fillings" is no longer valid (and is now false, actually) as vendors commonly call lettuce-wrapped offerings, for instance, "sandwiches". Also, foodgeekery.com is not a dead site; check your Internet connection. It makes sense to include a statement such as "Increasingly, however, items which replace the bread with another food are being marketed as sandwiches" somewhere in the first paragraph, if not the first line, for inclusiveness. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stevenmansour (talk • contribs) 18:26, September 9, 2009

When you first added it to the article, the site was dead; I verified that with downforeveryone. It does appear to be back now, but it's still unreliable. I did manage to find a news article that covered it, and that's in now. Text like "Increasingly, however," need to be backed up by more than just a reference to one specific case. Since we can only include stuff that's been supported by reliable sources, any changes we make need to be properly referenced. — HelloAnnyong ^{(say whaaat?!)} 18:34, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

I've removed the mention of the KFC sandwich altogether. The source doesn't seem reliable, as the majority of the article is obviously a joke. There's no reason to believe that part is true. Zeldafanjtl (talk) 01:59, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

And I've readded it with two more sources, just in case you still think it's fake. It's called the Double Down, and it's a real sandwich. There are a bunch of articles about it. — HelloAnnyong ^{(say whaaat?!)} 03:09, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

"Naanwiches"

Are "naanwiches" worth mentioning in this article? Naanwich is a neologism for what is essentially a sandwich made with naan. They are usually made with mutton and usually Indian spices and stuff, though it is not really authentic Indian food. They are popular with vegans and people looking for all-natural foods. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kylelovesyou (talk • contribs) 03:20, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Sandwiches with mutton are popular with vegans? Valley2city^‽ 19:52, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Definition

If a sandwich can be made with any type of bread, i wonder why there is a type of bread called sandwich bread. Maybe whoever that made the statement, being from Great Britain, probably meant the traditional English bread and did not figure out that with his definition a sandwich could also be made with black german bread with rice or bread made out of figs like they do in Spain, (es:Pan de higo) so they'd be called anything but a sandwich. Rafax (talk) 18:36, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Surely the defining characteristics of the classical English sandwich (which is what this article is about) are that (1) the bread is *sliced* (usually mechanically)and is therefore a uniform thickness of about 1/2 - 3/4 inch with both surfaces composed of the exposed interior of the loaf [the end crust slices are never used](2)the bread is of approximately square section with four near-right-angled corners and straight on at least three sides. Any sort of baked breadish lump just cut in half would not be a sandwich [thus the McDonalds 'sandwich' is actually a bun, and the Subway 'sandwich' is actually a roll]. It may be that such are increasingly erroneously *called* sandwiches, but as Lord Denning famously said in a judgement 'Just because a garden implement with four prongs is called a spade doesn't make it a spade, it is a fork'.

Spreads like peanut butter put between two slices of bread IS NOT a sandwich. This is also true for condiments. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.152.25.4 (talk) 18:51, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

109.144.239.61 (talk) 20:27, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Sammich

I know someone is likely to change what I wrote. But just remember, blonds have a place on Wikipedia too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blond_joke#Blonde_jokes Jeydo (talk) 06:35, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Updates to Introduction

"A sandwich is a food item, typically consisting of two or more slices of bread with one or more fillings between them,[1] or one slice of bread with a topping or toppings, commonly called an open sandwich. Sandwiches are a widely popular type of lunch food, typically taken to work or school, or picnics to be eaten as part of a packed lunch. They generally contain a combination of salad vegetables, meat, cheese, and a variety of sauces or savoury spreads. The bread can be used as it is, or it can be coated with any condiments to enhance flavor and texture. They are widely sold in restaurants and cafes."

The introduction is bland - very un sandwich like

I recommend that the introduction be expanded to include discussion regarding: 1. That there is sandwich in one representation or another in essentially every culture in the world. 2. That the sandwich often has a direct geographical tie expression of the local flair - ex. lobster roll, mufaletta, Banh mi.

Proposed Rewrite: The sandwich is a widely diverse food category that is typically defined by any two slices of a bread with one or more fillings, [1] or one slice of bread with toppings styled as an open face sandwich. Sandwiches are served at every meal but are mostly regarded as a lunch food. This is due to the highly portable nature of the sandwich enabling it to be taken to work, school, picnics etc. Fillings in sandwiches can contain a fully diverse array of foods from meats, cheases, vegetables, spreads, and dressings. Sandwiches exist in nearly every culture in the world in one fashion or another and often the sandwich is equated to the originating culture ex. pananni from Italy, Banh mi from Vietnam, Mufaletta from New Orleans. Beltwaybandit (talk) 03:47, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Another term for 'sandwich'

I wanted to add to the article that, in the Midlands of the UK, 'piece' used to be a common term for a sandwich, but has now largely fallen into disuse. In the far north of Scotland, however, 'piece' is still in daily, but declining, use - but I can't because I'm too new to be allowed to edit the page :-)

Could some kind soul possible add this for me? Actually, better, could some kind soul please *confirm* this usage and how widespread it was (the fact that it was used in two such widely separated locations, both geographically and culturally, suggests that its use may have been far more common than I am aware of) and then add it for me?

Many thanks,

David Shaw - Formerly of Aldridge in the West Midlands and now of John o' Groats in the far north of Scotland  :-) Dtmcgm (talk) 00:57, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Sandwhich types

Where is ploughmans? That is a good sandwhich made of cheese, salad, pickle and tomato! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.68.230.71 (talk) 14:14, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Most people would not think of a ploughman's lunch as a sandwich, though it could be made into one. Dbfirs 09:11, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

The 'Ploughman's Lunch' was a totally artificial marketing invention by the British Milk Marketing Board in c 1965 inorder to persuade Pubs with no means of preparing hot meals to sell more cheese. The bread, butter, pickle and cheese are in large separate lumps which the customer can combine as they wish. No ploughman pre 1965 ever purchased a 'Ploughman's Lunch'. 109.144.239.61 (talk) 20:27, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

I would like to interject with a little pedantry here. There has never been a British Milk Marketing Board in existance. There have been several Milk Marketing Boards in Britain, such as the Milk Marketing Board, (English organisation), Scottish Milk Marketing Board, Northern Milk Marketing board, etc. These no longer exist, since deregulation of the industry a few years ago.82.0.25.104 (talk) 05:41, 12 April 2011 (UTC)Lance Tyrell

Not wanting to be pedantic but it describes "butty" as being used as a colloquialism in "Northern United Kingdom" when AFAIK they don't particularly call sandwiches "butties" in Scotland (the Northern United Kingdom) any more than they do in Southern England. Sandwiches are called butties in Northern ENGLAND (Yorkshire etc which is mid-United Kingdom).But the whole expression mid-United Kingdom is a rather weird and ridiculous description anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.176.105.41 (talk) 11:03, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Pasty

Perhaps the pasty can be mentioned either

• as a regional sandwich (not sure on this, since it uses pastry rather than bread)
• in the gallery using File:Cornish pasty.jpeg

Given that it is used in exactly the same way as a sandwich (culturally), I think it should be mentioned here 91.182.56.170 (talk) 19:58, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

A pasty is nothing like a sandwich! A pasty completely covers the filling and a sandwich just 'sandwiches' it. The pastry also has to be cooked, cooking the filling too. A sandwich doesn't. A pastry has a more sloppy filling, sandwiches can have a more solid filling. We may as well say pizzas and calzones are basically sandwiches then. Sweetie candykim (talk) 14:45, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Sustainer?

"It was named after John Montagu, 4th Earl of Sandwich, an 18th-century English aristocrat, although he was neither the inventor nor sustainer of the food." What on earth does "sustainer" even mean in this context? How about "although he did not invent it"? -66.93.200.116 (talk) 18:42, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Neichatel

{{Edit semi-protected}} Neichatel doesn't exist as a city, it appears in the article but should be spelled "Neuchâtel". Since the article is semi-protected, someone with priviledges should correct it Barbablu (talk) 02:14, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

_{Fixed heading Jnorton7558 (talk) 07:51, 12 July 2011 (UTC)}

Already done Thanks to both of you! Reaper Eternal (talk) 15:19, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Daniel Foster , 18 November 2011

Add to External Links: U.S. Sandwich Council http://sandwichcouncil.tk

Zefareu (talk) 17:30, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Not done: External links are for further information on sandwiches, not for links to fansites. — Bility (talk) 22:24, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

PB and J link should go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peanut_butter_and_jelly_sandwich not a disambig page

History section

In the latest issue of the Kid's Discover magazine, the history of the sandwich is given. The original history was much less obvious in phrasing. I have reverted this and then rephrased the history in my own words. I will show you a diff as soon as I can get my hands on it.

Walex03'. talking, working, friending'. 00:29, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Magazine?

I've undone Walex's edit here that removed a bunch of text with the comment "Reverted vandalism. Sourced from a magazine". First, it's not vandalism - that text is relatively well sourced and has been here for months. Also, which magazine? Can we see this magazine and verify that it's not the converse, i.e. that the magazine took its text from Wikipedia? — HelloAnnyong ^{(say whaaat?!)} 00:38, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Kids Discover, read my post above.

💩Walex03. Talking, working, friending. 12:22, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 22 March 2012

Please add new discovered information about the history of Sandwich, having been discovered in Ancient Egypt during Middle Kingdom. The link below describes more about where it was discovered and there is a photo on the page for the oldest bread with meat sandwich found made by Ancient Egyptians, that sandwich is available in the Egyptian Museum.

http://www.ancientegyptmagazine.com/permesut43.htm

It might be that the Rabbi Hillel during his Passover from Egypt learned the Sandwich idea from Ancient Egyptians themselves.

Nohism (talk) 18:14, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but this isn't quite enough information. Please copy to here the exact text that you want to be removed (if any), and follow it with the exact text that you want to be added. When you've done this, please modify the editsemiprotected template by changing "answered=yes" to "answered=no". Nyttend (talk) 00:27, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Removed list

There is an excessive list of regional sandwich styles here. Aside from general questions of its necessity (what does such a long list really provide?), there are no citations to provide any convincing evidence any of these are "regional" types, so it runs the risk of being OR (I know my bacon-eating siblings used to make put bacon between slices of toast—so the bacon sandwich hardly seems specific to the UK). Notice also that many of the links contradict the regional specifications here, so anyone wanting to re-add them should confirm the accuracy first. For convenience, it is appended here. —Felix the Cassowary 13:32, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

List of regional sandwich styles, removed from the article

Some of these are distinguished primarily by the bread or method of preparation, rather than the filling.

• Bacon sandwich (UK) sandwich made from strips of bacon
• Bánh Mì (Vietnam) pickled carrots and daikon, meats and fillings on a baguette
• Barros Jarpa (Chile) melted cheese and fried ham
• Barros Luco (Chile) melted cheese and thin fried beef
• Bauru (Brazil) melted cheese and roast beef
• Beef on weck (USA, Buffalo) roast beef and horseradish on a Kaiser roll topped with pretzel salt and caraway seeds
• BLT (UK/USA/Australia) bacon, lettuce, and tomato
• Bocadillo (ES) often shortened as "bocata", sliced bread with a wide variety of ingredients
• Bombay Sandwich (India) Sliced tomatoes, onions, cucumber with spicy mint chutney
• Breakfast Roll (UK/Ireland) meats, butter and sauces on a bread roll
• Breville (UK, Australia, South Africa) A sealed toasted sandwich made in a specially designed sandwich toaster.
• Bun Kabab (Pakistan) spicy patty, onions, and chutney on a bun
• California Club sandwich (USA, California) turkey, avocado, lettuce, and tomato
• Caprese (Italy) mozzarella, tomato, fresh basil
• Cheesesteak (USA, Philadelphia) sandwich made from strips of steak and cheese, sometimes with peppers and onions
• Chimichurris (Dominican Republic) a sandwich made from pork, beef, and sometimes chicken with mayonnaise/ketchup sauce
• Chip butty (UK) chips
• Chivito (Uruguay) steak, ham, and cheese
• Choripán (Argentina/Uruguay/Chile) grilled chorizo
• Club sandwich (USA) turkey, bacon, lettuce, and tomato
• Crisp sandwich (UK) uses crisps
• Croque-monsieur (France) ham and cheese
• Cuban sandwich (Cuba/South Florida) ham, Swiss cheese, pickled peppers, and roasted pork
• Cucumber sandwich (England) cucumber between two thin slices of crustless, lightly buttered white bread
• Dagwood (USA) distinguished by size more than contents
• Denver or Western sandwich (USA and Canada) omelette based filling
• Döner kebab (Turkey) doner kebab served in pita bread or half of a loaf of bread
• Elvis sandwich (USA) fried sandwich containing peanut butter, bananas, and bacon
• Fluffernutter (USA, New England), combination of peanut butter and marshmallow
• Francesinha (Portugal) made with wet-cured ham, linguiça, other sausages and meat, covered with melted cheese and beer sauce
• French dip sandwich (USA), also known as a beef dip, is a hot sandwich consisting of thinly sliced roast beef (or, sometimes, other meats) on a "French roll" or baguette. It is most commonly served au jus.
• Grilled cheese (USA/British Commonwealth (as Cheese Toastie)) fried or broiled sandwich consisting of melted cheese between slices of buttered bread.
• Hamburger (Germany, USA) ground meat patty in a round bun, usually served with some combination of tomato, onion, lettuce, pickle, mustard, and mayonnaise
• Horseshoe (USA, Springfield, IL) an open sandwich topped with French fries and cheese sauce
• Hot Brown (USA, Kentucky) open-face sandwich of meat, Mornay sauce or cheese
• Italian beef (USA, Chicago) thin slices of seasoned roast beef, dripping with meat juices, on a dense, long Italian-style roll
• Melt sandwich, Tuna melt, Patty melt, etc.—filling includes melted cheese
• Monte Cristo (USA) a fried ham and/or turkey sandwich
• Mother-in-law (Chicago area) fast food staple that features a Mississippi tamale in a hot dog bun and smothered with chili
• Muffuletta (New Orleans) based on Sicilian bread
• Panino (Italy) salami, ham, cheese, mortadella or other food on a ciabatta
• Peanut butter and jelly (North America)
• Ploughmans (UK) sandwich compromising of cheese, pickle, tomato, lettuce and onion
• Printzesa (Bulgaria) slice of bread with ground pork/veal, kashkaval, feta or combination and broiled
• Porilainen (Finland) a bread with thick slice of sausage
• Rachel (USA) also referred to as the "Turkey Reuben"; coleslaw with Swiss cheese, 1000 Island or Russian dressing, and sliced turkey
• Reuben (USA) sauerkraut with Swiss cheese, 1000 Island or Russian dressing, and corned beef or pastrami
• Rou jia mo (China) stewed and spiced pork in a thick flat bread
• Roti john (Singapore/Malaysia) omelette sandwich
• Roast beef (USA/England) made with roast beef, tomatoes, lettuce, cheese, and mayonnaise
• Sandwich loaf (USA) a large multi-layer sandwich made to look like a cake
• Sandwiches de miga (Argentina) tea-time sandwiches on crust-less white bread
• Shawarma (Middle East) shaved lamb, goat, and/or turkey, rolled inside a taboon bread
• Sincronizada (Mexico) a tortilla-based sandwich.
• Smoked Meat (Quebec, Canada)
• Sloppy Joe (USA) based on ground beef and flavorings
• Smörgåstårta (Sweden) variety of "sandwich cake"
• Steak sandwich (Australia) containing a small fried fillet steak, lettuce, tomato, cheese, fried onion and barbecue sauce, generally toasted and sold at traditional snack bars.
• Submarine (USA) also known as sub, grinder, hero, hoagie, Italian sandwich, po' boy, wedge, zep, torpedo or roll
• Strammer Max (Germany) a hot sandwich, sometimes with side food; regionally a pub food without bread
• Tea sandwich Small sandwiches for afternoon tea
• Tramezzino (Italy) tea sandwich
• Torta (Mexico) various ingredients on a crusty roll
• Vada Pav (India) Buns smothered with mint, green chilli and tamarind chutney - stuffed with crispy mashed potato dumplings seasoned with mustard seeds and coriander.
• Vegemite (Australia) butter and vegemite often with slices of cheese
• Wurstbrot (Germany) sliced sausage on bread
• She't foul (Egypt) a native baked bread with beans and special spices.

Thank you! Mshenay (talk) 14:13, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Smorgasbord is not a sandwich.

"Smörgåsbord is a type of Scandinavian meal served buffet-style with multiple dishes of various foods on a table, originating in Sweden." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.42.177.86 (talk) 17:25, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

I concur. Smorgasbord is not a sandwich, the smorgasbord page linked to confirms this and the sources listed for this sentence do not appear to mention smorgasbord. For these fairly conclusive reasons I will remove the sentence. Perhaps the author was confused with Smorrebrod?Anonymous watcher (talk) 18:09, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Sandwiches Require Two Slice of Bread

Any culinary construction lacking two pieces of bread should not be defined as a sandwich. discuss. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.141.130.102 (talk) 17:14, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

What about one slice of bread folded in half? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.52.5.104 (talk) 13:09, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

A man stands behind a curtain at the end of a hall. In his hand he holds an egg. It hatches, a cat emerging. The cat screams with the voice of a man. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.118.224.12 (talk) 06:07, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Denied, sandwiches can consist of one piece of bread. These are called "open faced" sandwiches. A Canapé is defined as such, namely an open faced sandwich. I added references (two of them)to the statement about open sandwich .Mshenay (talk) 13:54, 29 March 2012 (UTC

Agreed. Open sandwiches are part of the cuisine of many cultures, and often exist where a culture does not have a closed sandwich tradition (Scandinavia, Russia, etc). Flatbread sandwiches are also made with a single piece.Ibadibam (talk) 19:54, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, this shouldn't say "two pieces of bread" at the start, there are hundreds of examples of sandwiches that don't use two pieces (including in the pictures at the bottom of the page). This needs to change, but I can't edit. If it doesn't get edited, then we need to make a new term for "Submarine sandwiches" though. 98.141.48.49 (talk) 23:19, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Death

sandwitches have been poisonis to people. Over 456 people died in Chicago in 1954.This has caused alot of problems.To make this work,eat 4 pieces of garlic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cake3332 (talk • contribs) 23:10, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

So...are you saying that eating four pieces of garlic will make us die, or that it will protect us?

I'm sure there have been sandwich-related deaths (probably involving either choking the toothpick, or inclusion of poisonous ingredients such as cyanide or hemlock as a means of assassination), but that doesn't really warrant a new section. And the whole "garlic" thing is just plain confusing. 206.108.5.92 (talk) 15:12, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

we need to reexamine that convention that says we don't revert Talk page edits. oh yes, I am staying very much on topic. 68.174.97.122 (talk) 20:58, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Punctuation error

"...with one or more fillings between them, Sandwiches are..." A period, not a comma. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ultranothing (talk • contribs) 06:05, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

• Thank you.  Done –
   – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 07:59, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Sandwich basics

I noticed there was recently a reverted edit that attempted to improve wording in the Sandwich basics section. Is this section even necessary? It only restates information from the lead, and its one source doesn't appear to be reliable. I propose the section be removed in its entirety. Ibadibam (talk) 22:49, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Double Roti

I was born in India and have lived here since, in all my time I have never heard of a "double rott." Please provide a citation or remove it. Cchowgule (talk) 05:57, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

I concur. I am an Indian, and never in my life, have I heard of a double roti. Maybe it is an archaic term that has fallen into disuse. Certainly not worth a separate section. That too, without a citation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hpratt.wiki (talk • contribs) 17:12, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Double roti is refereed to bread mostly by North Indian workers in Mumbai. Sandwich is simply called as Sandwich. As we three editors are opposing it I am removing the sentence.--Suyog^{talk to me!} 10:23, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Two or more slices of bread?

The lead reads "A sandwich is a food item consisting of two or more slices of bread ...", but isn't a wrap a type of sandwich? A wrap has only 1 bread and it is not sliced. Poyani (talk) 15:12, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

See Sandwiches Require Two Slice of Bread above and Talk:Breakfast sandwich#Where is this term used? for some prior discussion. We've got English editors who have a strict interpretation of "sandwich" to mean only two slices from a loaf of bread, other editors who say it can also be a single slice, and other editors who say that any baked, leavened grain product filled with some other food is a sandwich. Prior to this edit, the lead was worded a bit more inclusively. I'll at least put "typically" back in, for now. If you see additional room for improvement, by all means be bold. Ibadibam (talk) 17:50, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Changed to commonly. Please see edit summary. –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard|— 08:33, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Pretty old sandwiches

Re the story about Hillel...
From the Talmud: "the Babylonians are fools, eating bread with bread" . Explained as meaning - even food solidly prepared is eaten by them with bread consequently such would be included in the term 'tabhshil' and forbidden nedarim 49. Alternatively - referring to the Babylonian habit of eating solid food in a sandwich... found objectionable (p.124 Jewish Local Patriotism and Self-identification in the Graeco-Roman Period, Continuum, 1998). That's to say, the sandwich, or the hillel, is contrary to Dietary Law and naturally predates it. Hakluyt bean (talk) 02:42, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Um, scooping up cooked grains with bread is hardly "contrary to dietary law". There's nothing unkosher about it, it just struck Israeli Jews as a silly thing to do. It also has nothing to do with sandwiches. -- Zsero (talk) 02:58, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

I've cited two sources which you've disregarded, one a website providing commentary on the Talmud, the other a published book: "but is permitted [to partake] of a dish solidly prepared. Our Mishnah does not agree with the Babylonians, for R. Zera said: The Babylonians are fools, eating bread with bread". Explained as "ie, even food solidly prepared is eaten by them with bread consequently such would be included in the term 'tabhshil' and forbidden" and also expressed as "referring to the Babylonian habit of eating solid food in a sandwich... found objectionable". I'm just repeating myself. Hopefully when I (or someone) puts it into the article we're not going to have an edit war about something that is really very clear: the Talmud contains the earliest reference to sandwich. A sandwich does not have to be pastrami on rye. A sandwich is food enclosed in bread. If you think on the side issue that "our Mishnah does not agree with the Babylonians" is not a reference to 'law', just preference, then I concede it. But how one can argue that the Hillel reference points validly to a 'sandwich' but the Talmud reference does not is baffling. Hakluyt bean (talk) 16:32, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Good grief. The gemara in Nedarim has nothing to do with dietary law. There is no suggestion, anywhere, that sandwiches, or any method of eating bread, is contrary to dietary law. What's more, this Talmudic reference is not to any kind of sandwich, by any definition of the term, but to eating cooked grains together with bread; the question is whether it's a normal thing to do, and the Talmud says it's normal in Bavel but not in Israel, where the Mishna was written. -- Zsero (talk) 18:19, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Boy, you sure have a passionate interest in sandwiches. I put it to you for the third time that when an academic publication refers to "the Babylonian habit of eating solid food in a sandwich" you don't begin to create a ground of objection until you produce a contradictory academic source. It is not good enough to offer as conclusive the opinion that when they say sandwich they don't mean sandwich.
On the other point, which I made residual, but you revived, my reading of the gloss "ie, even food solidly prepared is eaten by them with bread consequently such would be included in the term 'tabhshil' and forbidden" as implying that 'forbidden' relates to dietary law is clearly different from yours. You may think it doesn't mean forbidden. I simply note that the source implies otherwise but you have an opinion, so fair enough. I'm not an expert on Judaism. This is an article about sandwiches. The point of the reference is that it describes a practice predating the reference in the article. I must say, you've raised yourself to the level of expert twice without citing any sources. You also don't really evaluate the sources I provide.

Thirdly, by implication this contribution invites an examination of the validity of the chronology. Does the 'Hillel' reference have any more substance than the one I bring? You're silent on that. I'm extending you far too much of a courtesy. Frankly :) Hakluyt bean (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 11:23, October 15, 2008.

The page of Talmud cited obviously doesn't use the word "sandwich", since it isn't in English, but nor does it use any word even remotely equivalent to "sandwich", and there is no reason to suppose that it refers to anything remotely resembling a sandwich. If an "academic publication" has so misread the source as to think so, then it has discredited itself.

The same applies to anyone who can read that page and imagine that it refers to any kind of dietary restriction. They have disqualified themselves from commenting on the matter, by this gross misreading of the source. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but it really is as simple as that. -- Zsero (talk) 02:14, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

I know this is an old thread but it's worth pointing out that the Mishnah is a primary source and any conclusions synthesized from it constitute original research. If a reliable source says that the Mishnah mentions sandwiches, then that can be enough for inclusion, even if some editors disagree. But then I can find no other sources that give this interpretation, and even one that argues against it. That this passage refers to sandwiches appears to be a fringe viewpoint and including it here would be giving it undue weight. Ibadibam (talk) 19:10, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

U.S. bias

KinHikhari has tagged this article as requiring globalization. Anybody have any suggestions for specific areas of improvement? Ibadibam (talk) 17:31, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

The article mainspace is actually quite ok, although a section on international variations should exist. The list of American sandwiches and that awful gallery should go. Now. Irondome (talk) 18:15, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. All we really need is the link to List of sandwiches (currently down in the See also section). We can pick some quality images out of the gallery to include in an international section that discusses significant examples. The croque-monsieur, smoked meat sandwich, and either the club or french bread sandwich are probably the best images to represent their respective regions. Then we can grab a few other images from other articles as appropriate. How could we best curate this international section to be globally representative? Have a couple from each continent? Ibadibam (talk) 18:40, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

I agree that the gallery of miscellaneous images should be severely pruned to a couple of the international classics. The main problem we have here, I think, is that there is an infinite number of sandwich combinations with a huge variation of names between countries of similar or identical combinations. May be we just have to be happy with a very long list for reference. Indeed the images attached to the list are mostly pretty helpful in aiding an understanding of the article. But I predict the list is likely to be endless, the list itself could prompt further as yet untried combinations. Richard Avery (talk) 19:18, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

KinHikhari needs to add a comment here to justify the {Globalize/US|date=August 2013} tag. Otherwise, it needs to be removed, and perhaps reinstated by someone who can justify it for this article. - Bevo (talk) 04:50, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Spelling Error

In the last section, find the phrase "it prevents the bread from socking up the filling." I believe "socking" is in error, and "soaking" is the intended word. The phrase should be "it prevents the bread from soaking up the filling."

Please, if anyone at all sees an obvious error like that, please just go ahead and fix it; it does not need to be discussed on the talk page. Thanks, Invertzoo (talk) 00:02, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

An attempt to clarify

It seems clear to me that this article needs to be primarily about "the sandwich" in the narrow sense of the term, as a food construction that originated in the Western World in relatively modern times, however artificial that distinction may seem to be. If we start to try to "globalize" the article, there is almost no limit to what can be included: potentially this could mean almost any kind of bread-like food substance positioned for consumption in contact with almost any other kind of food. But honestly I think all the more exotic combinations of grain-based substrate with other foods, like samosas, rotis, burritos, pizza, etc, etc need to be in another article, assuming one could come up with a suitable title for it. I have tried to tweak the intro and create an intro to the History section which makes this distinction clearer. Hope other editors see the point of this. Best, Invertzoo (talk) 21:08, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Your changes are generally positive. I'll raise two issues:

1. "Portable" is not necessarily a defining attribute of sandwiches. I don't see a Hot Brown or a croque-monsieur being particularly portable.
2. The Western world, as defined in that article, is not coterminous with the global region of sandwich popularity, if such a zone can be said to exist. I'd suggest leaving the lead without an explicit geographic region.

Ibadibam (talk) 21:37, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Hello Ibadibam, Thanks very much for your basically positive note. I changed the first sentence some more in an attempt to address your concerns. The reason why I put the phrase "Western World" in (please look at the map in that article to see how very big and not very western the Western World is!), is because the classic "modern" sandwich, dating to the 18th century, started as a European conceit. Over the last 50 or 75 years, this food fashion has spread to other non-Western World countries almost all over the world, as have various other elements of the western-style diet, such as fizzy bottled or canned drinks and so forth. The reason I put that WW label in as an origin, is to differentiate the sandwich from all the various wraps, rotis, burritos and other ethnic foods that some people have been claiming belong in the sandwich article. I am making a case to limit the article to the classic, originally European-style sandwich. Invertzoo (talk) 23:56, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for this delayed response... the lead as it now stands doesn't quite do what it's meant to: state in plain terms, as universally as possible, what the subject is, and not what it was, will be, or is not. Imagine how odd it would sound if the article on London began, London was originally a Roman town, but is now the largest city in the United Kingdom and many people other than Romans now live there.

I think we can agree that the term "sandwich" is difficult to define succinctly, as different cultures have extended it to mean a wider range of foods than the (British) English concept of two slices of buttered bread with filling between. These cultures can't be categorized as something simple as "Western" or "non-Western" — in France, sandwiches are commonly made on a baton or piece of baguette. In North America, people will call a stuffed pita bread or bagel a "sandwich" without hesitation. Invertzoo has rightly determined that the article needs to account for that ambiguity, but we need to find a way to do that in a neutral, encyclopedic tone that describes, rather than prescribes, the subject. To that end, here's an attempt at the lead sentence:

A sandwich is a food article made of some filling held on or between sliced bread, or more generally any dish wherein two or more pieces of bread serve as a container for some other food.

We can tweak this a bit, but I think it gives a more universal definition that captures the extended usage of the term. Ibadibam (talk) 23:33, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

I like your idea! Let's put in place and see how it looks. Invertzoo (talk) 00:11, 21 January 2014 (UTC) I tweaked it a little bit and put it in place. Feel free to change it around as you think fit. Invertzoo (talk) 00:16, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Handheld and portable?

"Many sandwiches are handheld and portable; this one is made with salami" -- I want to see the non-portable, non-handheld sandwiches... 131.111.203.58 (talk) 10:05, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Hot Brown, Francesinha, Tongue toast, etc. Ibadibam (talk) 18:55, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Whoever wrote that wins the internet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.88.52.63 (talk) 06:54, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Utter malarkey

"Several examples of unconventional sandwiches include tacos, burritos, and pizza."

This is nonsense. Someone, revert this absolute twaddle. None of these things are sandwiches! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.162.96.31 (talk) 00:25, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

I think a taco could arguably be considered a sandwich, since the contents are presented between two halves of tortilla, albeit connected on the side. Compare to a conventional sandwich served on a french roll, often the bread is not completely cut so you get the same effect. A burrito would be considered a type of wrap which is apparently a subset of sandwich. A pizza is just a fancy sort of open-faced sandwich. So they are all acceptable.65.78.144.229 (talk) 19:13, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

A pizza wouldn't apply, it's not bread with stuff on it, it's dough with stuff on it, then cooked. To call a pizza a sandwich is to open up the possibility of calling pie a sandwich. The others would be sandwiches though. 98.141.48.49 (talk) 23:14, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

If the definition of "sandwich" is going to be broadened so as to include any "thing" with "stuff" in/on it, then I suppose everything is a sandwich. My pillow is a cotton sandwich. My corner hutch is a book sandwich. My books are paper sandwiches. You get the idea. Ultranothing (talk) 05:37, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

A taco is a type of sandwich. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:1:8DC0:192:D100:5301:A06D:B2C0 (talk) 03:19, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Infobox picture

Can we get a better picture for the infobox? The one there now has a hand and napkin in it and it is a bad angle. I think the pictures not in the infobox are fine where they are and a new picture is necessary. —DangerousJXD (talk) 08:39, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sailor sandwich

Wikipedia Editors, there is a discussion about Sailor sandwich article that may relate to this article's topic. Peace MPS (talk) 16:28, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

implement auto-archive?

This will make 35 active threads on this talk page, many of which haven't been "active" in this decade.

Anyone object to my implementing auto-archive? Mr. Swordfish (talk) 14:46, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Seeing no objections, done. Mr. Swordfish (talk) 18:55, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

the History here is bogus

After bread was invented, people stared mixing their bread with other foods *at mealtimes* in a variety of ways, or they would *pack foods for mobile meals* including bread. All of that belongs in the History of Bread article. All of it is important, all of it is interesting, but none of that relates to the invention of sandwiches, an "aha" moment that is strangely modern. And our sandwich is also "Western". It is quite possible that Aztecs were making tortillas and wraps, and it's quite possible that India had the dosa or pav bhaji; I have no idea, props to them, I don't want to take anything away from them, but it's not a sandwich and it didn't lead to a sandwich. Is it remarkable that somebody thought to remark on and write down Hillel's bread snacking: but it wasn't a sandwich and it didn't lead to the sandwich. The idea of using the bread to assemble a new object, one that could be picked up, carried, and which formed meal by stacking/combining food groups: that's the innovation. We can marvel that with all the different similar bread and meat precursors that nobody thought of it, but writing it up the way it is here is making up progression that was not the progress. IMHO. 74.68.152.245 (talk) 21:26, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I'd be very very suprirsed if nobody thought it before. I find the whole idea that the invention of the sandwich can be attributed to a single individual ludicrous. It's such an obvious idea that it's probably been around as long as bread has - i.e. prehistory. Technically there would have been a first person to eat a sandwich (just as there was a first person to eat everything thats ever been eaten), but there will be absolutely no record of them as it would have occurred before the invention of writing.82.2.85.212 (talk) 12:32, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

The citation given for Hillel appears to be erroneous as well. It does not link to any such information about Hillel. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Transfire (talk • contribs) 00:38, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

You cannot accuse something of being bogus simply because it is not original. Ancient Sumerians invented bread, so by this principle, any other word for bread in any language must be bogus. It is an English word invented for a particular context. One of the most essential conditions is that the item can be eaten with one hand and on the move without spillage.220.245.41.236 (talk) 05:44, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Noun or verb?

As is quite regular in English the noun "Sandwich" can also be use as a verb where something can be "sandwiched" between one thing and another. This does not always sound as good English, and it is not, however nouns can be done - in English! Osborne 19th May 2010.

Can be an adjective too. "It is a sandwich construction." Noun: "I was the meat in the sandwich."220.245.41.236 (talk) 07:06, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Constant Abundance

A sandwich is actually a food source, not "item." Consider this when peole get into the mood that a sandwhich is nothing more than a combination of the 'items' used to make the resource happen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.235.154.42 (talk) 19:21, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

The phrase food source, as I understand it, refers to the unprocessed organism from which food is derived, for example, cows or wheat plants. Those things can be processed into foodstuffs, like beef or flour. A foodstuff is used as an ingredient to make a food or dish, like roast beef or bread. Those foods can be combined to make other foods, like a sandwich. A food item is an single instance of a food. A sandwich is a food that is discrete and countable, and thus an individual sandwich is a food item. Whether a combination of ingredients can be taken to constitute a distinct food is culturally dependent. Does this reasoning sound acceptable to you? Ibadibam (talk) 20:57, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Typo

This part of the "History" heading:

It was at the same time that the European-stye sandwich finally began to appear outside of Europe.

Contains a misspelling. "European-stye" should be "European-style" — Preceding unsigned comment added by CoherentLogic (talk • contribs) 22:42, 4 July 2016‎

 Done. Thanks. Grayfell (talk) 22:48, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Usage

"Any hot item based on a bread roll is referred to as a "burger", never as a "sandwich"."

Not quite true. Hot bacon inside a roll would be called a "bacon roll", a "bacon burger" specifically refers to a burger containing both a beefburger and bacon. 2A00:81C0:0:20:6631:50FF:FE3B:8A49 (talk) 17:29, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

"is always referred to as a "roll"".

Not true. I am from the UK and we still use the term sandwich when using other forms of bread including rolls. Suggest replacing "always" which is factually incorrect with "often", — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.229.84.126 (talk) 11:37, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Paywalled Reference

Reference #1 is really paywalled, but the information is available from multiple other sources, such as http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/11/10/massachusetts-judge-settles-dispute-by-ruling-burrito-is-not-sandwich.html. Could someone update the reference to reflect a meaningful source, like the one I posted? I don't really know how to do this without simply creating a new reference and dropping that in its place, which I don't think is kosher. MarchHare (talk) 20:23, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

I've added an archive link to the citation, for those who need to bypass the paywall. Ibadibam (talk) 21:19, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

"Toppings"

The colloquial "toppings" is more frequently used than "fillings" when speaking of sandwich "contents".

There is a paucity of scholarship exploring how "toppings" has become normative despite its more appropriate use for strictly open faced sandwiches.

I think any entry worthy of a good sandwich would be remiss without a treatment of said item's anatomy. The problem is that this could engender a dispute over the two leading terms contending as descriptors for sandwich contents. rasqual (talk) 03:16, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Can't someone post a different main picture? The current one is horrible

Please! No one wants to see a napkin and a hand in the literal first result for one of the most important foods in the worlds. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.177.103.20 (talk) 01:52, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Updated the image. —Tim Pierce (talk) 20:35, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

The reason for a sandwich is that it is made to be eaten with the hands, hence the two slices of bread. Shouldn't the main image reflect this? — Preceding comment added by Takeaway (talk · contribs) 21:10, 16 May 2016; original signature removed while fixing wiki markup errors

I think it's worth including that image, or similar, somewhere in the article to show the scale and manner of eating, but it's clearer if the first image is a picture of the food alone. It might be better for that image to show a whole sandwich, though. Ibadibam (talk) 19:21, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

I suppose we have to explain what a BLT is. Richardson mcphillips (talk) 14:29, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

You might want to look at the dates of the above conversation. - Takeaway (talk) 15:57, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Opinion text

Does anyone have a non-paywalled source for White City Shopping Ctr., LP v. PR Rests., LLC, 21 Mass. L. Rep. 565 (Mass. Super. Ct. 2006) ?

I found a paywalled source, but it requires a subscription to CaseText. 67.176.93.29 (talk) 16:26, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Leaven

Does a sandwich require the bread to be leavened? This would provide proper clarification that food items using tortillas are not considered sandwiches. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.104.196.210 (talk) 18:37, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Says who? Usage I am familiar with would include them.--Khajidha (talk) 18:03, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

On wikipedia article called List of Sandwiches, I see no examples listed that contain tortillas or any type of unleavened bread.

Wikipedia is not a valid source for itself. --Khajidha (talk) 15:40, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Language (UK & Australia)

This section is complete nonsense, and devoid of citations: in the UK - although the word "sandwich" most typically refers to something made with sliced bread (this being the most common type of bread consumed) - it is also commonly used to refer to a roll or a baguette. The statement that anything with a hot filling is called a burger is also flagrantly untrue: see (inter alia) bacon sandwiches and chip butties. I can't edit the page for some reason but I'd suggest a better wording would be along the lines of:

"In the United Kingdom and Australia, the term sandwich typically refers only to an item which uses sliced bread from a loaf, but may also refer to a filling served within a baguette or roll. In South Australia, there is a regional variant of the roll, superficially similar to a club sandwich, where the bread roll is sliced three times with parallel cuts, and filling is put in the first and third openings, but not the second. This makes the resulting double cut roll easier to handle: the top half and the bottom half are eaten separately. Many hot item based on a bread roll are referred to as burgers, and never as sandwiches; exceptions to this include steak sandwiches, bacon sandwiches and chip butties." 2A00:23C4:4F07:1000:51ED:B111:9877:ABB1 (talk) 11:51, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Danish open sandwiches

This article could mention Danish open sandwiches - a single slice of bread with something on top of it. Vorbee (talk) 10:19, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

Folk Etymology

Editors would do well to read this and revise the boldness of their language:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_etymology

10:03, 22 September 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.28.142.122 (talk)

Two Identical References

In its current form, references 3 and 4 refer to the same page on the same book. As I am unfamiliar with citations, I am writing this to request that the two be merged. Itskieran (talk) 11:12, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Number of slices of bread

The beginning of this article says "two or more pieces of bread serve as a container or wrapper for another food type."

However, the article has several pictures of sandwiches with one piece of bread, e.g. a roll that has been sliced open but not split into two. Many sandwiches, such as cheesesteaks and meatball subs, are frequently made this way to prevent filling from falling out the bottom. They do not fail to qualify as sandwiches on account of this.

Wouldn't it be more correct to state that "one or more pieces of bread serve as a container or wrapper for another food type?" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.125.124.170 (talk) 18:39, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

That's really two pieces of bread that are hinged because someone was too lazy to finish the job. :) Actually, it would help if you had a reliable source that states your assertion.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 00:29, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 December 2018

A sandwich can have connected or unconnected bread as the two slices. Lilygabric69 (talk) 06:54, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. DannyS712 (talk) 06:59, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

Hot dog is it a sandwich

A hot dog is the same as a sub sandwich exept with a sausage Johnymcjohn (talk) 10:10, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Yes. I think also, the precursor of Hamburger and Hot Dog was the British Sandwich. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:D1:27FF:18F3:E859:9E9B:DD43:BB62 (talk) 08:44, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Ah, but a sub sandwich isn't a sandwich either. It's just a long filled bread roll that has a colloquial name. It's not literally a submarine either by the same measure. ;) :p219.88.68.195 (talk) 02:19, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 August 2019

I was skeptical of the claim:

"The word butty (a reference to the fact that butter is often used in British sandwiches)"

and went to find a couple of sources to add: http://www.makingstrange.net/2010/03/british-oddities-behold-chip-butty.html https://www.dictionary.com/browse/butty 92.12.62.37 (talk) 06:13, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

 Partly done: Added the dictionary.com source but not the blog since that fails our reliable source policy. --Trialpears (talk) 20:12, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Just to add to that, -we call bacon sandwiches 'bacon butties' (Bacon butty singular), in NZ. There's plenty of references online for that, I'm not sure which would be appropriate to add. That's specifically when the bacon is hot just to note, -also quite common for them to be available when people are doing a sausage sizzle, in addition to the sausage with a slice of bread. Also we don't use butty for any other type of sandwich.219.88.68.195 (talk) 05:00, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

TACOS ARE NOT SANDWICHESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.191.219.171 (talk) 18:40, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

"Samwidge" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Samwidge. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. TheAwesomeHwyh 02:08, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Why does the definition in the article include "wrapper" when the first two references [1][2] specifically are counter two that?

Re reference 1, the court case concerning White City in Massachusetts, that concluded that a sandwich is made with two slices of bread. Therefore an item such as a burrito is not a sandwich. Re reference 2, the dictionary definition cited also mentions two slices of bread.

Why include "wrapper" and then cite two references that are counter to that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.203.79.134 (talk) 16:19, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Earliest date for pre-packaged sandwiches

The debunk of Marks and Spencer's being the first to market pre-packed sandwiches is sourced to two subsequent editions of the Radio Times, which I assume could only be the letters page. Readers writing to a magazine to say how they remember something differently would not be a reliable enough source to downgrade the weight of a researched Guardian story. Pinging Bkesselman (talk · contribs) to ask if they can clarify, but I'll remove the Radio Times sourced content for now. --Lord Belbury (talk) 09:16, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for this Lord Belbury (talk · contribs) I can't find the references I looked at before to check if they were indeed on the RT letter pages or not - they may have been. However, a quick search of the British Newspaper Archive shows that the Cheshire Observer - Friday 06 December 1974 reported that a woman from Chester pleaded guilty at Chester Magistrate's Court to stealing "a pack of sandwiches" (value 12p) from British Home Stores. She had been seen taking "the sandwich pack from a display". I think that the 1980 M&S date is not safe. But I'm happy that you should make any adjustment to the article you choose.Bkesselman (talk) 11:18, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Agreed, that does seem enough to question it. It's possible the Guardian article is drawing a deliberate distinction by referring to the invention of the "chilled packaged sandwich", and looking for other sources Bee Wilson's Sandwich: A Global History goes further by referring to purpose-built boxes being an M&S innovation. I'll see what I can do. --Lord Belbury (talk) 11:41, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

This Is The Most Valid Definition Of A Sandwich

sandwiches - two separate pieces of what is typically bread with some sort of food that is not the same as the outer pieces separating the two.

Therefore: Hotdogs are not sandwiches. Open bread sandwiches are NOT sandwiches. (Including Toast, PB & J without the other piece, etc.) Burritos are NOT sandwiches. Pizza is NOT a sandwich. Anything that conforms to these expectations are sandwiches. Anything that differs is NOT a sandwich.

I did not cite a source, because I am the one who wrote this. Does this mean that this definition is incorrect? No. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Caillou.guac (talk • contribs) 21:14, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

I care less about correctness than I do about accuracy. This definition doesn't account for hoagies, submarines or pocket sandwiches, and it willfully excludes open sandwiches, all of which are described as sandwiches by reliable sources. That's the problem with original research: something one person made up just isn't going to be as accurate a representation of the facts as would be an aggregation of reliable, independent sources. Ibadibam (talk) 02:51, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

@Caillou.guac: I agree with Ibadibam, we don't do OR here and we go by sources. You will need to convince the wider world to accept your definition before it will appear here. I'd note that as always any definition falls apart at the edges. "Hot dogs are not sandwiches" except by that definition, if you cut the bun completely through it is, and despite what our article suggests, I'm fairly sure this is done in some places (tried a quick search but it's difficult due to debates over cutting the bread sideways or topways as well as questions over how commercial hot dog buns are cut) yet the item may otherwise have limited differences between something else called a hot dog which is evidently not a sandwich. Similarly submarine sandwich and rolls, the bread can be cut through completely, but it can also be not cut through completely in some cases. Likewise if you fold over a single piece of sliced bread, say with ham and cheese or peanut butter or marmite, it's not a sandwich. If you eat or cut the fold, cut it before you fold it (at least I assume so since a definition which excludes cutting a presliced bread in half as 2 separate pieces of bread seems to get into even more complexities) or use two slices of bread, this is a sandwich. Yet the difference between these 2 is remarkably small. And notably the first case, raises the point that if you're eating such a non-sandwich, all you have to do is eat the fold and suddenly the non sandwich you're eating becomes a sandwich, whoops. If for some reason you include folding over the bread without cutting as 2 separate pieces, this raises the question even more why a hot dog bun or bread roll or whatever not cut completely through is not counted but your folded bread is. The sausage sizzle of course also generally uses folded bread. Then of course you have to consider wraps etc. Nil Einne (talk) 08:21, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Infobox image

Perhaps this is a bet western-centric of me, but the headline image for this article doesn't seem to be particularly appetizing. While I know that this isn't any kind of requirement for a food article, I feel like we could just do better.

At some point in 2013 the image in question for the infobox image was a lovely image of a salmon and cream cheese sandwich. At some point, this image was relegated to the gallery and the image was in the infobox was changed to a picture of a woman holding a salami sandwich. This image wasn't great, so it was later changed to a BLT after a mention on the talk page a few years ago. In late 2020, it was changed to the not very tasty looking egg sandwich we have today. The reasoning for this change was valid, however, I think it lowered the overall quality of the page.

I'm not entirely certain what image would work best, so I thought it would be ideal to reach out to the maintainers of this page and food wiki in general and solicit some thoughts. Let's do sandwiches the justice they deserve. :) --allthefoxes ^(Talk) 07:57, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

That 2020 edit was from me, replacing File:BLT sandwich on toast.jpg because I felt that photo was too tightly cropped to one corner of the sandwich, and was depicting a sandwich made with toast when the article lead defines it as "slices of bread" and the wider article barely mentions toasting at all. I agree that the egg sandwich isn't a very appealing one, but it was the best one I could find on commons that fairly illustrated the text of the lead. I'd say it still beats the earlier image of File:Salmon Cream Cheese Sandwiches.jpg for being plain "slices of bread" rather than a baguette, but would be happier to see a more appetising photo that met the article's definition of "typically consisting of vegetables, sliced cheese or meat, placed on or between slices of bread". --Lord Belbury (talk) 19:17, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 March 2021

The picture of a sandwich is actually a roll. The article gives a clear definition of the distinction between the two, yet fails to apply this. The picture should be changed to a sandwich made of TWO SLICES OF BREAD 89.168.225.2 (talk) 21:37, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Twassman | Talk | Contribs 21:44, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

"Turkey and cheese" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Turkey and cheese. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 July 9#Turkey and cheese until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 15:39, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 August 2021

The definition of a sandwich in the article is "A sandwich is a food typically consisting of vegetables [...] placed on or between slices of bread" (line 1). But a few sentences after it is said that "[...] definition of sandwich; and specifically whether a hot dog or open sandwich can be categorized as such." (line 2-3). Therefore the definition can't be right when it is generally discussed if an open sandwich is a sandwich. The "on"-part should be removed. Tivikus (talk) 21:41, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: That's what a sandwich typically is accepted as, then it goes on to explain there is some debate about if open face sandwiches or hotdogs count. It's fine as is. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:44, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 August 2021

Change the picture for the page. an egg sandwich is not a valid sandwich 69.113.226.125 (talk) 02:13, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: Not a good rationale Cannolis (talk) 03:08, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

{{Use British English}}

Article is tagged {{Use British English}} and yet most of it is based on the American English definition of the word sandwich not the narrower British one. It seems to me like the tag is wrong and the article is really written in American English after all, when American English is determining the very article scope (i.e. the meaning of the word in the article title.) I suppose the other option would be to trim the article's content down to match the British meaning of the word, but that's probably the worse option. I also think that the article needs to focus more on the fact that sandwich means different things in different English varieties. It didn't mention that fact until half way down the page; I've added mention of that to the lede, but I still feel like the article could do with more focus on that issue. Mr248 (talk) 05:36, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

A Hot Dog is a Sandwich!

Good day/night, We need to add a hot dog as an example of a sandwich. It meets all the definitions of a sandwich.

The USDA defines a hot dog as “a meat or poultry filling between two slices of bread, a bun, or a biscuit.”. A hot dog bun accounts for the bun aspect, and the main meat accounts for the meat aspect. By the United States Department of Agriculture’s definition, a hot dog is a sandwich. We need to give it the simple right of not being shunned by sandwich-dom. 
A hot dog deserves to be counted as a sandwich, and we shall give it that right.

Sincerely, An anonymous Wikipedia user 108.18.29.120 (talk) 16:10, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

This is already mentioned in the second paragraph of the article. --Lord Belbury (talk) 16:11, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 January 2023

My request is to remove the burger image, it is not a sandwich, source: https://www.slamwichscratchkitchen.com/burger-vs-sandwich/ Leandromicael123 (talk) 10:33, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. Lightoil (talk) 08:44, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

What basic ass person chose that sandwich picture?

Get help please. If an encyclopedia is supposed to be for reference the most common types of sandwiches should be used. Not some monstrosity. 2601:580:4581:7AD0:587:BCCE:AAE6:52B5 (talk) 19:41, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

What picture would you suggest using instead? Belbury (talk) 19:58, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

I’d suggest a fancier one like here: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sandwich.jpg

Otherwise a simpler but less sad sandwich like a balogna, or ham, or turkey. One such example here:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bolgona_sandwich.jpg Stbcbus (talk) 03:20, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

First one is okay but doesn't really match the "typically consisting of vegetables, sliced cheese or meat, placed on or between slices of bread" definition that the article opens with, which I'd guess is because it's trying to be an international definition. Second one seems good, though, I've put it up. Thanks. --Belbury (talk) 10:00, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Technically, that first one is a sub. That is all. Toodles 2600:1015:B093:E7A5:3CEB:27A:BD99:9E59 (talk) 05:55, 9 April 2023 (UTC)