Talk:Scottish Church College

Nomenclature
The introduction of the article the oldest continuing Missionary administered liberal arts and sciences academy in India is very appropriate as:

1) Neither Presidency College, Kolkata nor the Oriental Seminary were Missionary administered institutions at any point of time.

2) Serampore College discontinued the study of liberal arts and sciences in 1883 till 1911.

3) Calcutta Madrassa, Asiatic Society and the Fort William College were not liberal arts and sciences colleges. Asiatic Society and Fort William College were more like research institutions on Oriental Studies and Calcutta Madrasa was dedicated for Islamic learning.

Perhaps the tag "Western style" could be added before "Missionary" and "undergraduate" before "liberal" therefore making it the oldest Western style continuing Missionary administered undergraduate liberal arts and sciences academy in India.

Thanks,

Byomkesh Bakshi 08:55, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Also Serampore College and Bishop's College were (and are) seminaries, or institutions primarily intended to train priests or scholars about Christianity. Their primary purpose is not imparting liberal arts and science education.

Regards,

Pradosh Mitter (talk) 08:30, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Just happened to pass along and saw this article.... seems to me that the oldest continuing Missionary administered liberal arts and sciences college in India is way too long. Why not shorten it to the oldest Christian liberal arts college in India? The meaning is not lost. Also this definition fits in well with the definition of an American liberal arts college. Although I don't know if that fits with the Indian definition ...

HisExcellencyThe HonourableViscountofAmherst (talk) 06:29, 4 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Interestingly although CMS College Kottayam was established as a Missionary college in 1817, it did not start as a "liberal arts and sciences college" in the sense that its purpose was initially to train "officers to fill all departments of public service", or in other words, be a training academy somewhat like Fort William College. CMS College became a "liberal arts and sciences college" only after Independence in 1950, when degree courses were introduced. Nonetheless, its journey has been no less remarkable. Hope this note clears any potential confusion on dates. The tag "oldest continuously running Christian liberal arts and sciences college in India" is appropriate for Scottish. Sidhu Jyatha (talk) 12:36, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 19:45, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

On the alumni of Scottish Church College
(To user Badshah165) I appreciate your efforts to include the names of previously unknown alumni to the list, and your effort is indeed notable. However, as there are certain standards that are relevant for a wikipedia article, which you have somehow overlooked. The names of the people that you have mentioned are interesting information. However there is no direct proof (either through a referenced text or through a website) that they had ever attended Scottish Church College. Most of the references to the alumni mentioned on that article are referenced, either in the separate wikipedia articles on them or any referenced website, or book. Birendra Krishna Bhadra, Upala Sen and Mohanananda Brahmachari are no doubt great people, but you have provided no proof that they had ever attended Scottish Church College. The only statement that we have is yours -- an individual statement which is not referenced in any way. And as such the possibility of biased viewpoint cannot be ruled out. Thus without proper references, these names are in their current state, not proper to be included in the wikipedia article. It would be better still, if there were separate wikipedia articles on them, which could be later linked to the text.

Also I would also request you to refrain from including your name in the main article as there are many contributors, not one.

Pradosh Mitter (talk) 00:23, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Some additional noted alumni of Scottish Church College

 * Sri Mohonananda Brahmachari.He was born at early morning of 17th December 1904. He was initiated in Brahmacharya by renowned Sadhu Sri Sri Balananda Brahmachariji Maharaj at Sri Sri Balananda Ashram, Deoghar, Bihar now Jharkhand. He passed away on 29th August 1999.He not only preached Sat Dharma but was also very very sympathetic to cause of poor and needy without any barrier of caste or religion. Many people from other religion viz. Sikhs, Muslims and Christians regularly visited Him to get His blessings.


 * Partha Pratim Chowdhury,dramatist


 * Keya Chakraborty,dramatist


 * Sir Gurudas Bandopadhyay,renowned educational thinker of his time


 * Kalidas Rai,Bengali poet


 * Sisir Kumar Bhaduri,noted playwright


 * Buddhadeb Dasgupta,acclaimed art film director
 * Upala Sen,noted Rabindra sangeet exponent

Reference: 1)Scottish Church College Magazine(Year - 1999,2000 and 2001.Volume - 87,88 and 89). 2)Anananda Bazar Patrika - Sunday edition(Year - 2006). --Badshah165 (talk) 09:22, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

A short list of topics discussed about persons related to Scottish Church College in the college magazine: 1) Year 1999(Volume 87) - page 1: A very brief account of William Spence Urquhart mentioned.

2) Year 2000(Volume 88) - page 1: A very brief account of ex-students of Scottish Church College mentioned.

3) Year 2001(Volume 89) - page 42: Manoj Mitra, in an interview with him, mentions the names of Rudra Prasad Sengupta, Partho Pratim Chowdhury and Keya Chakraborty as the former students of the college.

--Badshah165 (talk) 06:39, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Response on alumni
Thank you for your response. I'll see if these names can be added with proper references to the texts that you mentioned.

Pradosh Mitter (talk) 03:33, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Bp in un.jpeg
The image Image:Bp in un.jpeg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
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 * File:Bp in un.jpeg
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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --22:38, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't see any reason why the photograph can not be used in this article since the main article on B.P.Koirala uses this photograph as well. This is being used for educational and non-profit related purposes only.

Pradosh Mitter (talk) 20:12, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Separate Alumni Page
I manually reverted removal of 6k ref material from the article by with a note on their talk page. Since the "Notable alumni" section is two long compared to the rest of the article may be it is time for a separate alumni page. Solomon7968 16:23, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
 * There is a separate category of Scottish Church College alumni listed within University of Calcutta alumni category. I don't think there is any need to create a separate page for its alumni as that would not be well maintained. See List of University of Calcutta people, which is ill-maintained.Pradosh Mitter (talk) 18:35, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually all University alumni or faculty page is ill-maintained except that of USA/UK. For comparison see List of Moscow State University people, List of Saint Petersburg State University people (Russia), List of École Normale Supérieure people (France) or even List of Georg-August University of Göttingen people (Germany). Curiously if we create a separate alumni page for Scottish Church College it will be much better (with the referencing) than most lists. Solomon7968 13:11, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Creating a new page on the alumni would require more than just mentioning names. Good photographs that are licensed for free use, would be required. I don't think there are that many photographs available under the free license cause on Scottish Church alumni. Also prior to starting a new page and separating the alumni from that page, the article itself has to be expanded significantly, with say, departmental, cultural and sports histories, photographs (again, with free use license), traditions of the college (Caledonia, retreat, etc.). The tricky part is translating Bangla sources (including among others, Anustup, Robibarowari -- Sunday supplement of Ei Somoy, etc.). There are no articles yet on many other notable alumni. Referencing the past issues of the Scottish Church College magazine, Scottish Herald, etc. would be a good idea. Again, I do not have access to these. If you have addressed these concerns, then feel free to proceed. I would have waited till the college attains full autonomous status or becomes a university.Pradosh Mitter (talk) 14:44, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

On William Hastie
Is the mention of Hastie's travails particularly useful in improving this piece? He was certainly a colorful personality - apart from being the first (and till date, the only) principal of the college to be dismissed from his job, and subsequently being imprisoned, and bankrupt, he was apparently prone to sexual jealousy, and bad judgment. It is also possible that he may have guided the young Narendranath to Ramakrishna as a practical joke or due to a whim of an unguarded moment, played to perfection, on an unsuspecting and impressionable subject of a colonized race. Yet for all his misdemeanors, liberties, or excesses, or whatever, Hastie will always be remembered in India (and primarily among Hindus) as an unwitting catalyst of a great process of social and religious transformation. To that end, mentioning Hastie's tribulations in a wikipedia article on the college is unnecessary and unwarranted.Trilokeshwar Shonku (talk) 12:22, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed and removed. I will also suggest pruning Duff, this article is about the college so best to concentrate on academic rankings sports etc. Detailed biographies of principals and alumni are unwarranted and undue as you say. Solomon7968 17:55, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120330131833/http://www.pitlochrychurchofscotland.org.uk/Duff.htm to http://www.pitlochrychurchofscotland.org.uk/Duff.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130307001947/http://www.caluniv.ac.in/About%20the%20university/Noteble%20first.htm to http://www.caluniv.ac.in/About%20the%20university/Noteble%20first.htm
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090406193504/http://www.scotchem.org/alumni_frame_2.htm to http://www.scotchem.org/alumni_frame_2.htm
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John Murray Mitchell (missionary)
This article is far too messy for me to figure out where to put John Murray Mitchell (missionary), who is not mentioned but was principal from 1868 per the sources in the linked article. - Sitush (talk) 08:05, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

James Prinsep and vernacular education
Greetings!

To cut a long story short, the current text goes as follows: "While Orientalists like James Prinsep were supportive of the idea of vernacular education, Duff and prominent Indians like Raja Ram Mohan Roy supported the use of English as a medium of instruction."

However, the source says the exact opposite, stating that: "Even the Orientalists  led  by  Prinsep  never  advocated  for  the  introduction  of  vernacular  as  the  medium  of  instruction."

Therefore, I've added a at the Historical context section. Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 18:54, 11 December 2021 (UTC)