Talk:Sodium fluoroacetate

Page move
I think this page should be moved to the more accurate Sodium fluoroacetate and 1080 (poison) should be a redirect to it. 129.241.11.201 12:54, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * That sounds like a good idea. raptor 09:17, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Passive voice
In the body the fluoroacetate is converted to fluorocitrate...

This statement is very vague, due to passive voice. How is it converted? Is there some metabolic process that is responsible, or does it just simply breakdown into fluorocitrate? --Beefyt 15:48, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Assessment
Not a bad length, but still needs some more work, as well as filling in the infobox, hence start class. The mechanism is particularly unclear. I imagine it works by competitive inhibition of aconitase preventing the formation of isocitrate. Richard001 01:30, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

LD50 value
Since this is an article about a poison, it should have LD50 information, but I couldn't find this information. --Ozhiker 11:20, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Is documentary on YouTube reliable enough?
A group of anti-1080 New Zealanders made a documentary about an aerial 1080 operation and it's consequences on target and non-target species. The documentary was aired on one of national TV channels (Maori TV, Saturday Feature slot on Saturday July 14 at 9.30 PM.) See. Parts of the documentary are on YouTube.

Does anyone object this first hand account recorded on video is reliable enough? Envirozed (talk) 23:14, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Well I'm a NZer, and I haven't seen or even heard of the documentary you mentioned and I won't be watching it because it will only increase my disillusionment with the NZ government.


 * I've spent some time with people who live in areas where 1080 is used, and EVERYONE I have met strongly opposes its use, and they feel particuarly bitter because DOC (department of conservation, NZ Govt department who are doing the poisoning) simply don't care that they don't want 1080. DOC use 1080 officially to control possums, but unofficially to kill deer, wild goats and pigs and anything else that is introduced. DOC's stated goal is to return the NZ bush to some unrealistic utopia as it was before these species were introduced by man - so the bush can regrow and th native birds can live in peace, I guess. (NZ has only one native mammal, a bat) They claim that 1080 doesn't kill significant numbers of the birds, but I can tell you, that is a LIE.  DOC may as well use nerve gas in the bush instead of 1080.  After a big drop there is NOTHING living the bush MONTHS later.  No animals, no birds, not even any insects.  Its very sad, they seem to have completely lost sight of why they are trying to kill the possums and rats.  Its a futile goal anyway, do they think they will be able to eradicate these species from NZ?  They are destoying the very thing they are trying to save. Johnno74 (talk) 03:28, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

^^^^^^^ Whoa, Johnno man, you are SO wrong in absolutely every way it is almost incredible. I don't know where to begin. Areas near where 1080 is used is predominantly farmland - farmers are strong supporters of 1080 use as it kills one of the biggest carriers of Tuberculosis affecting their livestock - possums. The government bodies do not take the decision to use it lightly - many studies and submissions from outside organisations are considered. The fact remains that 1080 is unquestionably the BEST solution to the specific pest problem existing in NZ. 1080 is not "unofficially" used to kill other pests, why would you think that?? Deer, pigs and goats are all terrible pests within our native bush also, and are a key target of 1080 poisoning. They are not "collateral damage" kills.

The goal of poisoning? Wrong again man. The goal is not to return it to some "utopia" - the word nature has no normative connotation. The goal is species preservation. The protection of our native species, both flora and fauna, against the onslaught of the exploding populations of introduced pests. If you want to have some of our beautiful native birds around for our grandchildren to see, then you must understand we can only preserve them by controlling the pests threatening them. By the way NZ has far more mammals than that, we have an extremely rich and diverse array of native marine mammals, and 3 native bats.

This view on bird kills is one of the most obviously simplistic arguments of the "anti 1080" camp, and has absolutely no merit. Any intelligent individual will see through this as garbage. 1080 use in an area does kill other species which are not the target species, dogs for example. But there is signs up explaining the threat to dogs. There may also be collateral kills to native birds. But, now get this, every single case study of a round of 1080 poisoning in an area has shown an overall INCREASE in native bird populations! How? Removal of predation. Kills birds? Kills insects?? How? Show me a single case study of a native bird like a kiwi that has been autopsied to show 1080 has killed it. You may not be aware, but 1080 is commonly applied as carrot bait, dyed green. The kiwi for example eats underground invertebrates, so it would not recognise it as food, so why would it eat it? More to the point how could it eat it??

Your summary of 1080 above displays a COMPLETE lack of understanding of 1080 as a poison. A lack of understanding perpetuated by anti 1080 propoganda dvds in circulation. I encourage anyone interested to undertake their own research. The science speaks for itself.

I would also encourage people to review the submission of Local Government New Zealand to the Environment Risk Management Authority of Jan 2007. http://www.lgnz.co.nz/library/files/store_015/LGNZ_Submission_on_1080.pdf It is a comprehensive and reasonably fair (and importantly easy to read) justification of 1080 use. I'd like to highlight the points made on it being the only viable option for aerial application, and also that, unlike many other common toxins, it breaks down readily in the environment and does not bio-accumulate in food chains.

Daniel

BSc - Earth and Evironmental Science, University of Waikato. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.72.183.67 (talk) 22:14, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

My 2 cents - The current section on the Environmental Impact violates the nuetral POV policy for Wikipedia. It would be acceptable to note the concerns, and the documentary. The section doesn't cover that by-kill of native NZ animals is low as there are no native mammals, except bats. Pro and anti 1080 arguments exist they need to be summarised succintly, and linked to sources as a reporter would. Michael. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.73.56.214 (talk) 09:49, 9 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Disagree (mostly). Sources need to be linked to as a scientist would. I don't think a Documentary could be cited as a Primary source (as W requires), unless there is no other source (there is), or the Documentary is a major part of the article (it isn't). It should reflect the passion in the debate, which the article currently misses. Anyone have good sources? Egmason (talk) 10:05, 12 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Oops. Just followed the link 1080_usage_in_New_Zealand, which nicely covers this point. I will add a very little bit to reflect this. Egmason (talk) 10:08, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Discovery?
"Sodium fluoroacetate was discovered by German military chemists in World War II." Any sources for this? I mean, reliable, of course. As far as I know, fluoroacetic acid and salt thereof were synthtised already in the early 20th century, and its toxicity was independantly discovered in the late 1930s in at last 3 countries (Poland, German Reich and The United Kingdom). One source I have states, that "the high toxicity of 2-Fluoroethanol, Fluoroacetic acid and their derivatives was discovered by E. Groß in the "Gewerbehygienisches Laboratorium der I.G. Farben in Elberfeld."" (Wegler, R. et al.: Chemie der Pflanzenschutz- und Schädlingsbekämpfungsmittel, Band 1: Einführung, Insektizide, Chemosterilantien, Repellents, Lockstoffe, Akarizide, Nematizide, Vogel- bzw. Säugetierabschreckmittel, Rodentizide. Berlin; Heidelberg: Springer, 1970. ISBN 3540047824) I'm not sure, however, if this does not only apply to german research in the field, as it is known, that multiple researchers/groups were working on fluoroacetates in that time (e.g. B. C. Saunders in Britain). Anyone any sources about this?--84.163.109.142 (talk) 00:59, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I found this on "the vetinarian" see http://www.theveterinarian.com.au/features/article685.asp

The compound was synthesised in Europe in 1896 and developed in the US as a rodenticide during the 1940s. sound's like this backs up the above comments the article was by ROB CHURCHILL, CATHERINE CORKHILL AND MADELEINE RICHARD presumably they resourced the atricle for the vetinary magazine Cheers —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.89.250.237 (talk) 12:38, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Environmental Impact and Stability in water
"Fluoroacetate is extremely  stable in  aqueous solutions;  solutions  kept  at  about  3-5 [degrees]  for  1 month  showed practically  no change in  toxicity  towards  yeast. "  Ref, page 84,  http://www.jbc.org/cgi/reprint/170/1/83.pdf    ( "THE  EFFECT  OF  FLUOROACETATE  ON  THE  METABOLISM  OF YEAST  AND  BACTERIA” 1947)

The 1947 study says fluoroacetate is extremely stable in cold aqueous solutions (i.e. water), but recent studies say it breaks down rapidly. Why is this?

What exactly is the chemical reaction between sodium fluoroacetate and water which supposedly breaks it down into harmless chemicals? Could a chemist please help here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ceeceef (talk • contribs) 11:47, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Checking in today (15 August 2009) and I see there have been no responses to my questions above. My issue is with the first statement, that, 'Sodium fluoroacetate quickly decomposes in soil and water into harmless compounds, resulting in low persistence in the environment'. I am not convinced that this is factual. In order to prompt some discussion I've placed a "The neutrality of this section is disputed" tag on the 'Environmental Impact' section of the front page. The INCHEM website (part of the World Health Organisation) states that sodium fluoroacetate is 'very soluble' in water at 20 degrees C, and that 'aqueous solution can be expected to be stable at any pH'. Further, sodium fluoroacetate can be purchased in an aqueous solution (i.e. in water)- which would suggest that it doesn't break down in water. I am inclined to think that it would be more accurate to say that sodium fluoroacetate dissolves in water - not that it breaks down in water- which to my mind suggests a chemical reaction of some sort. However- I am not a chemist and would much appreciate the help of some chemists to sort out the facts on this matter. Thanks. Ceeceef (talk) 12:05, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Fluoroacetate would be expected to hydrolyze to glycolic acid and fluoride, both much less dangerous than the fluoroacetate:
 * FCH2CO2- + H2O  →  HOCH2CO2-  +  HF (which is fluoride when dilute in water near neutral pH)
 * The very characteristic that makes fluoroacetate dangerous (the activated C-F bond) is also the vulnerable site on the anion. There is nothing unusual about an aqueous solution being stable near 0 °C and but having less stability at room temp. Furthermore the rate of the hydrolysis (or degradation if you will) would be expected to be strongly affected by soil, most likely accelerated.  And probably soil dependent.  The chemistry is complicated because soil is complicated stuff.--Smokefoot (talk) 14:36, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Simply, it doesn't break down in water (instead relying on dilution to below 2 ppb) and eventual break down by soil microbes. It does break down in soil though in about 2 weeks in good conditions, but up to 3 months if its cold/hot, dry etc. 123.255.27.164 (talk) 06:41, 11 October 2009 (UTC)Andy

I agree that fluoroacetate will be stable in water. Fluorinated compounds are notorious for being persistent in the environment. Carbon fluorine bonds are strong 120 kcal/mol versus 90 kcal/mol for a carbon-carbon bond. --theslave (talk) 10:58, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your contributions Smokefoot, Andy, and theslave. I am happy (in a way) to see that my concerns are being validated by your comments. I see also that someone has rewritten the paragraph under Environmental Impact, so that it now reads, "Sodium fluoroacetate slowly decomposes in soil and water in cold temperatures, resulting in continued persistence in the environment". Is this accurate in the eyes of suitable qualified people? I also see that the 'Stability in Water' part of the title has been removed- not sure why. I think it's important so I'll give it a whole section to itself.Ceeceef (talk) 13:04, 10 December 2009 (UTC)


 * A stream is not 'water'. Studies show that in 'biologically active water', sodium fluoroacetate is broken down by aquatic plants and microorganisms generally within 2-6 days. Much like it is broken down by soil microorganisms. Source http://www.1080facts.co.nz/uploads/2/9/5/8/29588301/water_sampling_for_1080.pdf Egmason (talk) 09:21, 12 February 2015 (UTC)


 * 1. Smokefoot is wrong. So wrong that I suspect he is either a troll or just completely incompetent as far as organofluorine chemistry is concerned. Ignore him. 2. It is NOT credible that a peer-reviewed report would EVER claim that any chemical is "gone" (or words to that effect). The ONLY thing that a scientific study can observe is either the presence or absence of DETECTABLE amounts of a chemical. Without adding sensitivities to this article, it is meaningless to claim that 1080 "decomposed" in 2 days, for example. MOST chemicals persist in the environment (once introduced) for extremely long time periods; as their concentration diminishes, the speed in which they "decompose" slows exponentially. Generally, half-life data (or 90%, 95% or some other %) is a useful measure of decomposition and almost all environmental assays are expressed in those terms. (That is: "of the initial amount present, after X days only 5% [or 50%, or 0.1%, or...] was detected." Simply because one report is able to detect 0.5 ppb, does NOT imply that any other finding is as sensitive. (organofluorochemicals are pervasive in the soil, water and air, it is not always possible to distinguish between a poison added to a environmental sample and the background already present in that sample.) 3. It is (imho) risible that this discusses the fact that larger animals are less sensitive than smaller ones. (Well, duh!) This seems intended to confuse the issue of species to species variation in toxicity with the effect of DOSE. It is (and always has been) the dose (amount) that makes a chemical toxic (or not). Discussing the toxicity of a "piece" of meat is more nonsense. For a given species what matters is usually best discussed as grams or milligrams of poison PER Kg of body weight. Not "pieces per animal" (which is rubbish).4. Finally, a study which was intended to monitor the flow into a stream and which did NOT observe any such flow is a FAILED experiment. It is worthless in terms of discussing the fate of 1080 in the environment and should, imho, be removed from this article (more rubbish).Abitslow (talk) 18:15, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

Fluoroacetate does not directly react with water. That said, it has low persistence in the environment because it is broken down by microorganisms and plants. See "Degradation of Sodium Monofluoroacetate (1080) and Fluorocitrate in Water" https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s001289900838 OrganoMetallurgy (talk) 17:12, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

toxity to Birds ?
esp. Falconiformes /by prey ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.16.140.163 (talk) 22:19, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

This compound is so terrible that it is out of law, here in Brazil.

Syntesis with fluoride
This compound can be syntetized using fluorine, acetic acid and first step and reactic the products with sodium hydroxide:

First step:

F2 > Fluorine.

H3C-COOH >acetic acid

F2 + H3C-COOH > FH2C-COOH + HF

Second step:

FH2C-COOH + HF + 2NaOH ---> FH2C-COONa(Sodium fluoroacetate) + NaF(sodium fluoride) + 2H2O(water). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Agre22 (talk • contribs) 01:33, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * And if you pass third semester studying chemistry, you'll might learn that by far the most common industrial and laboratory route to get fluoroacetic acid and derivatives is a nucleophilic substitution of alpha-chlorine atom in chloroacetic acid or its salts, amides or esters with fluoride. Cheers and keep on!--84.163.83.168 (talk) 12:12, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 84.163.83.168: also relevant is this http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/twit--Smokefoot (talk) 13:45, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I can´t imagine that fluorine gas would actually be used here. Fluorine explosively reacts with most compounds. I wound think that sodium or potassium fluoride wound be used here to displace a chloride or bromide. --theslave (talk) 10:41, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes,I think that a better way to produce 1080 is chloroacetic acid + NaF

H2Cl-C-COOH chloroacetic acid + NaF -> H2F-C-COOH (Sodium fluoroacetate) + NaCl (table salt) Agre22 (talk) 22:29, 11 January 2010 (UTC)agre22

Still used to kill coyotes in US?
I don't see a commercial registration for 1080 use in the United States under the epa registration documents online, can somebody confirm that the statement "in the United States it is used to kill coyotes" is correct? Bugguyak (talk) 22:44, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Unknown on present tense, but here's a reasonably good citation for the sentence from a verifiability standpoint (wikipedia policy), if the sentence is changed to past tense. Montana rancher and State Senator Arnold Rieder described, in a news-paper article, a coyote's death from 1080: "... a frenzy of howls and shrieks of pain, vomiting and retching as froth collects on his tightly drawn lips.... A scant six to eight hours after eating his meal, Mr. Coyote is breathing his last, racked by painful convulsions, [dying from] the most inhumane poison ever conceived by man...."
 * Gzuufy (talk) 20:42, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how a personal viewpoint quote from the 1970's is pertinent to show why there is a sentence in the article that alludes to the poison still being used to kill coyotes in the United States. I am changing it to read that compound 1080 was once used to kill coyotes in the United States, since I do not see a current epa pesticide registration for sodium fluoroacetate. Bugguyak (talk) 13:06, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The pertinence would be historical accuracy, as well as the unresolved question regarding whether it is still used. The previously mentioned book describes a committee named PARC, or Predator and Rodent Control, and that appears to be further back in time than the 1970s, so there's one past tense justification alluding to broader use than one person's viewpoint. Another EPA (PDF) dated 1995 June explains that its rodenticide use was cancelled in 1990 for "special local needs," but the sodium-fluoroacetate based "livestock protection collar" use apparently was not dropped. Another sentence follows. Sodium fluoroacetate is a restricted use pesticide which may be used only by trained, certified applicators and which is only registered for use in livestock protection collars.


 * A PDF dated May 2010 from USDA APHIS says the livestock protection collars are still used. The LPC is registered by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)

as a restricted use product.


 * Thus it appears it is still used (2010 May is technically past tense) by the U.S., though it does seem to be difficult if not impossible for most citizens to locate and purchase for "special local needs" and use. Do you have anything further to discuss in regards to its current use by the U.S.? Gzuufy (talk) 18:45, 30 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Wow, thanks Gzuufy, this livestock protection collar is an interesting method to target only the animals killing livestock. Thanks for finding that information. I think it makes a valuable contribution to this page. It appears to be restricted to use by the USDA and to private licensed applicators in Texas and Montana only, and one of the links says its used in South Africa against jackals. Do you think it would be pertinent to add that? Do you think this device may warrant its own page on wikipedia? Bugguyak (talk) 16:21, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
 * No problem! Feel free to update the page with any info you find pertinent.  I missed some of those facts you mentioned. One set of thoughts that did occur while editing related to the sections "Use" vs "History & Production". I tried to limit any history added as visible text in the Use section as directly relating to its use.  Even so limited, those two sentences added may be more appropriate in History and Production section (I'm ambivalent therein). One concern on a new page is "Livestock protection collar" vs "Toxic collar."  A Toxic collar page would also seem to logically apply to such things as pet flea collars, while an LPC only page would be more specific.  One of the allegations I read somewhere (no cite right now) was that the use of LPCs is not a low-cost approach to the ranchers it would be of use to versus its pre-1972 usage, which would have the further market effect of limiting the poison's current use. I'm highly limited in my time over the next week or so, and I haven't yet created a new page, though it seems easy enough. Feel free to make such a new page! Gzuufy (talk) 19:47, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Incorrect CAS number in chart on right
The CAS number (which is accurately repeated in the link) does not load a valid page.

Jeffholton (talk) 21:23, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Editing infobox image caption
Is there a way to put a caption on chem infobox images? The problem here is that the image is of crystaline fluoroacetate with multiple molecules, which is obvious after a look, but should be noted to avoid initial confusion. S B Harris 20:28, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, you can add a caption using this:


 * ImageCaption1 =
 * -- Ed (Edgar181) 20:35, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I'll try it. S  B Harris 23:23, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Popular Media
Sodium fluoroacetate is a pivotal part of the plot in an episode of the TV detective show, Monk ("mr MONK has a birthday"). It is incorrectly identified as an extremely potent and fast-acting poison that inevitably kills its victims within a few minutes of ingesting a small dose. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.66.65.44 (talk) 00:38, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Sodium fluoroacetate is also mentioned in the 1994 non-fiction book "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil" by John Berendt. In the book, a person owns a bottle containing sufficient to kill tens of thousands of people. HairyWombat 16:41, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
 * In the late 1960's or early 1970's in Cleveland Ohio a certain chemical company (known for its Fluorine chemicals) R&D department decided to see how effective it was by placing an open container (tray) of it in their Company Headquarters' parking lot on a Friday. It hit the fan come Monday morning when the Headquarters staff returned to work to find hundreds of dead rats strewn about the parking lot. Many of the secretaries refused to get out of their cars or brave the sidewalks.Abitslow (talk) 18:30, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

removed NPOV tag
I removed the NPOV tag as of 3/28/2016. It didn't seem merited to me and i couldn't find any relevant discussion here on the page; one person suggested it due to the environmental impact section but it seems the changes that person proposed have been implemented. The article as a whole to me seems quite good and w/out POV Masonpew (talk) 07:02, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

bait spacing
"In 2011, over 3,750 toxic baits containing 3 ml of 1080 were laid across 520 hectares" then "The baits were spread at the rate of one per 10 hectares" How does that add up? I don't understand what this means, I think. Can it be clarified? i.e. by my count, that would make 52 baits, not 3750. Yesenadam (talk) 08:47, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

The reference 32 doesn't even support the 3750 baits over 520ha statement, as far as I can see. Commonsense would suggest that the area was hundreds of thousands of hectares not 520. And the reference 33 is a dead link. Jgm74 (talk) 15:59, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

History and Production - Is Sodium fluoroacetate manufactured in NZ?
My question is about these statements:
 * "It is widely circulated that the only company currently producing 1080 is the Tull Chemical Company, a small operation in Oxford, Alabama.... The manufacture of 1080 also occurs in New Zealand through a Government-owned company Animal Control Products Ltd/Pestoff situated at Wanganui on the north island New Zealand. According to New Zealand parliamentary questions, this facility has produced several thousand kilograms of 1080 annually since 1997/98.[10]"
 * Firstly, I don't believe that pure 1080 is currently produced in NZ. I've been studying 1080 in NZ for several years now, and I've seen nothing that suggests this.
 * Secondly, the third sentence claims that this information came out in NZ parliamentary questions, but the reference is to an article by Sean Weaver that does not mention the production of 1080.
 * Is the author of this edit still present? Could they substantiate the statement?
 * If not, I will edit the first sentence to say "The only company currently producing 1080 is the Tull Chemical Company..." and remove the second and third sentences quoted. SueJB (talk) 10:27, 25 August 2016 (UTC)


 * The reference does quote the Company as making Baits (just above one of the tables), but does not seem to say that the chemical itself is made in New Zealand. I looked at their website and they did not claim to be manufacturing 1080 itself. The (sub-)reference is on page 3 of the paper, just above and below Table 1. It is not separately listed in the endnotes, possibly why you missed it. Egmason (talk) 00:07, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I did miss that. 1993 is a long time ago and practice has changed substantially - for instance, carrot bait is no longer used for aerial 1080. He claims that ACP 'manufactured' 3023 kg of 1080 - that sounds roughly the correct amount for 1080 imported from Tull. Tull's current annual production is around 5,000 kg p.a. The NZ Department of Conservation is applying aerial 1080 at 1 kg per hectare to around 800,000 hectares this year, the biggest area treated in history. 800 tonnes of bait at 0.15% 1080 means 1200 kg of 1080. I do not have exact figures for TBFree's usage, but they tend to be around twice what DOC uses. In other words, 80% of Tull's production is what NZ uses in a year - so no need to manufacture it here; and ACP does not run a chemical plant but a bait-compounding operation.SueJB (talk) 09:56, 28 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Sean Weaver's article has various defects. For example he uses the term sodium fluoroacetate to describe both the synthetic poison and the plant poison,,whereas I believe the latter is potassium fluoroacetate. SueJB (talk) 09:56, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

SueJB (talk) 08:23, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

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Remove In-Text Citations
There are instances in the article of in-text citation being used (inappropriately), instead of as proper references at the end of the article. See especially section 5.2 Soil. Cas315 (talk) 01:13, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Interesting review to use here
added. That's unnecessarily prominent at the top of the page however it is an interesting source to draw from. I didn't want to just delete it so it's here instead. Invasive Spices (talk) 19:09, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Incorrect information
1080 isn’t used for deer control in New Zealand. This article is factually incorrect. 2001:8004:2761:246A:B94A:3C26:5E04:15D4 (talk) 02:43, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Related compounds
Hello This is normal information to include. Removing a related compound with the same purpose and synthesis information is unusual. I have moved it out of the lede. I hope that will satisfy you. Invasive Spices (talk) 11 August 2022 (UTC)