Talk:Splatterhouse

Liar, this game was not "released exclusively in Japan".

It has been suggested that Dr. West was named after Herbert West, the Re-Animator (played in adaptations of H.P. Lovecraft's work by Jeffrey Combs).
 * I added a mention of this in the trivia section that goes over the film references. I feel that it is safe to assume that is the individual they were making reference to, even if it is never outright stated that way. Too much of the game, while I love it (and those that followed it), is just too reminiscent of horror films of the era. TheMonkofDestiny 01:14, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Also, as an aside to that, it would be pertinent to consider that they could only reference or draw inspiration from films that existed before they made the game. Unless they had some way of seeing the future or something. TheMonkofDestiny 01:17, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

An advertisement, two pages in length, told in comic strip style, for Splatterhouse was included in many 1988 published comic books, such as Nick Fury#17.

Reception
How is what three reviewers wrote nearly twenty years after Splatterhouse's original release considered "reception"? These citations don't provide any historical context to Splatterhouse's original reception by video game reviewers and the video game community -- by the time the authors wrote these reviews, the shock value gore that was Splatterhouse's claim to fame was much more commonplace, and side-scrolling brawlers had long since seen their heyday. They merely represent opinions of people playing a title many years past its prime, which is no more insightful or of historical significance than anyone else's opinion of the game.

I recommend removing this section due to its misleading context and lack of relevance, or in the very least indicating these opinions are strictly for the reception of the Wii Virtual Console re-release eighteen years later. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.99.25.66 (talk) 02:26, 29 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I concur with this poster about the fact that "reception" can't be accurately determined 20 years later after-the-fact.

I remember quite honestly that this game received a lot of positive attention back in the 1990's. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:C4EA:14D0:883E:D6A4:5BCE:7036 (talk) 03:48, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Sequels
I just noticed that there are no mentions or links to the sequels' pages. If nobody objects then I would like to add that info in a section called either Sequels or Legacy. ---donbruno (talk) 04:59, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Ill-Advised Rant
Hi, I originally wrote the entire Splatterhouse article that spanned all three games. I'd like to thank everyone for fucking up the original edits and tearing it apart into three lackluster pages, with information that has no evidence to back it up (Evil Dead fanboys got to this one). Christ, if there was some way to lock the article, I would have. It's also unfair to some of the changes that were made before the split, some people adding really good information which is now gone.

My corrections for reference:

TG16: Rick's mask is not predominantly red, it *IS* red, entirely. Arcade: It was never banned. If you think otherwise, link to a news article or some actual proof. Likewise there was no Parental Advisory Disclaimer, that term came up much later when console games were rated. Proof, people, provide proof before writing! General: Splatterhouse has *never* been considered survival horror, and that term did not even exist until Resident Evil for the PSX, which was the game that coined the phrase.

The movie references are pointless; while a few are correct (Friday the 13th) I think we could make very loose relations between any horror game and any horror movie. Has anyone even checked the dates of these films to ensure they didn't come out *after* Splatterhouse?

Turbografx-16 is 'TurboGrafx-16'. There is no console called the 'FM Town Marty PC', but there is an 'FM Towns Marty'. Again, this was all correct before.

Not that it matters though, apparently the new editors want to add their own poorly-written spin on everything. Fuck you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.110.0.97 (talk • contribs)


 * If your efforts were to come off as if you had a superiour version of the article that crammed every bit of info of the series into one jumbled mess, then congratulations on succeeding with that. Addressing your concern over previously incorrect bits of information (the red mask, the banning in the arcades), most of that has been cleaned up and/or removed either by myself or various others. The dates of the films (I'll say "most", since I can't speak for the more obscure titles in the list, as I have not seen them) mentioned do indeed predate Splatterhouse's release. The only inconsistency was with the inclusion of the second Evil Dead film, which I removed myself upon realising. Your own call for proof before writing is also something you should consider heeding to. The game falls under the survival horror genre due to its elements (I dare you to present a valid and sensible argument stating that it doesn't). If you'd bothered to collect any info before spouting off an ill-conceived rant in this article's talk page, you'd realise that the term was only adopted widely after its appearance in Resident Evil but countless games (Clock Tower on the Super Famicom for example) before it also carried very similar elements and are currently considered to be of the survival horror genre regardless of whether the term was actually in existence at the time of their release. The state of the article as it is now is in considerably excellent condition. The story no longer conflicts with any possible copyright violations (since I'd assume you were the genius who copied the story word for word from the TG-16 manual into the article in the first place).TheMonkofDestiny 20:06, 1 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Though I don't agree with the tone of the rant, he makes some good points. For instance, the horror movie tie-ins besides, obviously, Friday the 13th, seem completely unnecassary and conjecture at best. Where's the verifiability on movie ties? Also, having been a fan of the arcade edition, i found it odd that i couldn't find it mentioned in the article... and why does it say that the arcade version was only released in Japan? I was in Rhode Island, or maybe Ohio when I played it in the arcade.--Adrift* 00:54, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The article was being edited by a known vandal, who happened to be including that false "Japanese exclusive" mention in it. I agree with your standpoint concerning the film references, since just short of asking individuals who made the game, it is near-impossible to be certain that they borrowed ideas or that the filmmakers borrowed their ideas from them. The only reason I left that entire section in and cleaned up the formatting on it was simply because it was there prior to the moves of revision I took with the article overall. Of course, this is Wikipedia, I claim no ownership over a solitary article (nor does anyone else) so if the general consensus concerning those mentions are that they should be removed, I would not make an attempt to revert them back into the article. Also, what could be mentioned about the arcade cabinet that doesn't get covered by the infobox? Just short of devoting a section regarding how "cool it looked" or something, I could think of nothing pertinent to mention of it since the article covers the arcade game itself and mentions that it was ported over onto other systems. See the reasoning? TheMonkofDestiny 08:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Trivia section
I've done some editing to the Trivia section. I have my doubts about the Kid Chameleon and FFVII references (isn't it just as likely those are references to Friday the 13th?) but I left them in. The section still needs some work, though. NighTrekr 09:01, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it is/was a mess. Kid Chameleon seems to favor a tomahawk in that bit (which is closer in resemblence to the weapons Rick uses). FF7's doesn't stick save for the monster's name "Hellmasker", which seems to be a nod at the Terror Mask (it's been called all sorts of things over the years anyway. Plus he doesn't have Jason's 'stance' per se in that transformation IIRC).--Kung Fu Man 21:03, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I shuffled the present info on the page around and added a Cinematic Influences section in an attempt at organization. I got rid of this trivia entry because I have no idea what it means:


 * The manual for the Japanese PC Engine port of Splatterhouse gives Rick's and Jennifer's last names in English, though it's possible Jennifer's is supposed to be "Willis".


 * Also, I'm still not sure if the the "survival horror" paragraph serves any real purpose in the article. Any thoughts/suggestions? NighTrekr 01:01, 9 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Went ahead and reorganized the article a bit, moved some stuff around to reduce the size of the trivia section too, and removed a misnomered bit. Hopefully this result is better.--Kung Fu Man 13:37, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Personally, after having added to and/or having done much of the similar, I'd like to say I appreciate the attempts to help turn this article into something better than it originally was (a conglomeration of all four games into one, which was simply criminal in how it underplayed the impact these games have had on gaming culture). It'd almost be nice to see it on the front page one day... but I'm shooting for the moon there, I'd think. --TheMonkofDestiny 02:25, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I just reorganized the "References in Other Media" section into bulletpoints as I think it makes it easier to read. I also added a point about the ending track appearing in Katamari Original Soundtrack Damacy. I added it because there aren't many references to Splatterhouse, it's interesting to see it referenced in a soundtrack rather than a game (note: "Other Media") and I believe a Splatterhouse fan would find this interesting... I'm a fan and I would like to know about it from reading this article. --Mysterious Bob 19:01, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

not very encyclopedic
with phrases like "pretty much" in the weapons descriptions, saying the harpoon is "actually useful" and posing questions to the reader, like "notice the disembodies hands in some areas?" this article has some very unencyclopedic sections that require some clean up.

or am i just crazy? Pandapatrol 16:08, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Dr. West/Hell Chaos
Why did the Terror/Hell Mask summon it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.38.180.40 (talk) 02:24, 1 April 2007 (UTC).


 * Well, according to Splatterhouse 3, the Terror Mask felt that the evil denizens of the house were the only thing holding it back. So I guess it summoned Hell Chaos explicitly so Rick would get rid of it for him. --Bishop2 04:42, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Movie Adaptation
I'm not so sure if this should be included. I don't blame the makers for wanting to mention their amature film but this isn't encyclopedic. Opinions? --Mysterious Bob 15:49, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Agree 100% there. If every article on Wikipedia were to spawn amateur films, maybe it'd merit deeper consideration. As it is, if it isn't notable even in the slightest, it doesn't need to be there. --71.156.95.89 21:38, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Removed the last instance of "you," and made it read a little smoother grammatically. Nickoten (talk) 21:20, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

New Splatterhouse game/Creator of West Mansion connection
I just saw this on the main page:

"Namco has announced a next-gen adaptation to reboot the franchise to be developed by Bottlerocket Entertainment. One of the key designers of the remake is said to be the creator of the West Mansion fan website."

I only wish I was a key designer on the new game - then I'd be getting paid! I found that pretty flattering, though (to whoever posted that, what source did you get that from? I'd love to know). No, I'm just a fan that got noticed by Namco Bandai and BottleRocket because of my website, and one that hopes to make the voices of Splatterhouse fans everywhere heard by the powers that be when it comes to the new game. There's always the possibility that my site or I will be listed in the credits of the game, though. Dire51 (talk) 07:37, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Not Survival Horror
This is getting ridiculous. Any game that comes out now with a horror theme is being called survival horror, and likewise people seem to be desperately scrambling to go back through the pages of video game history to slap the survival horror label on any past game with a zombie or monster in it. What's next? Castlevania? Ghosts and Goblins? How about Final Fantasy? There are zombies in that, so it must be survival horror, right? And the fighting game Darkstalkers. There's lots of macabre monsters in that. People, Splatterhouse is a friggin' mindless side-scrolling beat 'em up. (Not saying it's a bad game mind you) It is NOT survival horror, and anyone who thinks so clearly does not know the meaning of the term. Let's take a look at the main features of the survival horror genre as established by games like Sweet Home, Alone in the Dark, and Resident Evil (most consider these to be some of the earliest and most important survival horror games, possibly along with the original SNES version of Clock Tower) and see which of them Splatterhouse has.

-Horror theme and setting: Yes

-Item collection: No

-Inventory management with finite space: No

-Storyline that is often related to the player through diaries and other personal accounts and/or NPC's: No

-Puzzle solving: No

-Explorable environment that is broken up by locked/blocked areas forcing the player to find keys/alternate ways to access those areas: No

-Emphasis on problem solving gameplay where combat is not always the solution to problems: No

-Combat is often limited by a scarce amount of ammunition for projectile weapons. If melee weapons are present they are usually very weak or in some way finite (can be lost, used up, broken, etc.): No. Although melee weapons can be dropped when attacked by enemies, I don't think they ever disappear for good. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) The player also has several decent melee attacks so they are never helpless.

-Recovery items are also scarce working with ammo/weapon scarcity to limit the combat/action portion of the game: No. Although you could say recovery items in Splatterhouse are scarce as I don't believe there are any at all, the whole point of making them (along with ammo) scarce is to convince the player that fighting may not be the only way to solve a problem. In beat 'em ups like Splatterhouse, fighting is the absolute only option. You're presented with an obstacle and you either destroy it or be destroyed by it.

-(This one is key, folks.) The combined scarcity of ammo/weapons and recovery items makes players think twice before fighting monsters or trying to kill all monsters instead of avoiding some. This takes the emphasis away from combat and focuses it on pure survival: No. Survival horror is about the fear you feel when the enemy is closing in and you have precious little time to decide whether you should use your last few bullets on them or try to run by them despite the fact that you are low on health and have no recovery items left. There is none of that in Splatterhouse. Splatterhouse is about scrolling through linear levels having fun smashing up enemies.

Splatterhouse is beat 'em up horror, NOT survival horror. --LoneWolf6:16 (talk) 06:33, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Whoops, just noticed this. I've switched the genre to beat 'em up, unless someone can show significant examples of this being referred to as survival horror in reliable sources which can somehow credibly link splatterhouse's gameplay with silent hill and resident evil, we should be sticking with beat 'em up, which it.. is. I have seen journos occasionally refer to the games as S-H, but in a way which suggests they're just chucking the term around and not differentiating between horror and survival horror. The way the links had been piped (IE they linked to survival horror, but had been chopped to display as horror) suggests that that it was being used to classify all video games with horror elements, which is not what it's for. Someoneanother 00:43, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That's basically what happened. At the time, there'd been no clearly defined tenets as to what truly constituted "survival horror" - at least none so clear as those laid out by LoneWolf6 (though some are bollocks, with all due respect, as far as being indicative of that sub-genre alone). Clearly a vast wave of change has rolled about since then, and defining it as a horror-themed beat 'em up (or similar) seems to shoehorn it correctly into where it needs to be. --TheMonkofDestiny (talk) 06:46, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

PC and Dreamcast version missing !?
It seems like Splatterhouse ep.1 - Deception of the Mask, Splatterhouse ep.2 - Journey Through Hell and Splatterhouse ep.3 - Back to Light are missing in this article. I'm not sure whether these are fan-made versions of the game or not Proof: http://sergiokrauser2.blogspot.com/ Proof: http://the-dreamcast-junkyard.blogspot.com/2008/12/splatterhouse-dreamcast-trilogy.html Nonetheless it would be nice to mention those games.

Comment: It seems like this is a reference/mod to Beats of Rage a Streets of rage open source clone http://indiedreams.wikia.com/wiki/Beats_of_Rage20:59, 24 May 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.101.208.222 (talk)


 * This game was made not only for Turbografx-16 and arcade, but also for the Sega Genesis. Why is this not mentioned at all in the article? Shouldn't someone put that in there? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:C4EA:14D0:883E:D6A4:5BCE:7036 (talk) 03:53, 16 February 2014 (UTC)


 * The only Splatterhouse games released for the Genesis were its two sequels. Those already have their own articles. There was never a port of the original to the Genesis, although that would have been nice. Dire51 (talk) 04:16, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Expansion: and Citation
This article is missing citations on its material, and is missing information on the game's development which should be added to the article. Also there should be more reviews on the game added to the reception section as well.--Paleface Jack (talk) 03:32, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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high scores
High scores can obviously be controversial. I think we'll all admit some random website just made by someone for their friends shouldnt count as a source, but where is the line drawn? What makes a score tracking site legitimate? Twin Galaxies has certainly proven itself it be official. Other sites have as well. Aurcade is run by the arcade owner -- who has a conflict of interest for his scores, not to imply anything negative about him, just bringing up things worthwhile in considering validity of the scores -- and the scores have no proof other than the word of the person there. In the case of this particular score, they've outright stated they didnt film it, so we'll never ever have the proof. Even still, Aurcade is certainly bigger than just one random person. I can see referencing it. Completely removing Twin Galaxies references though in favor of Aurcade is to say that Aurcade is the only source and the official source. Outright removal of the twin galaxies reference makes no sense. Additionally, I have noticed your comments on edits here as well as your edits seem personal and based on some grudge with twin galaxies. Any issue you have doesnt necessarily make you're info incorrect, but I would ask you to consider if you think you have some bias here and if its really appropriate to complete remove any and all references to the official scoreboard at Twin Galaxies when discussing the high score. I also though it was inappropriate for you to remove the score of one of the very few females to hold a world record on an arcade game, that alone is historic any worthy of note even if she is no longer the record holder. Its one thing to add information from a source you trust, its quite another to remove information from even more valid sources due, especially when your comments indicate its for personal reasons. SnowflakeFury (talk)

Outright removal of Aurcade score by Paparo makes no sense. How can you reference previous Aurcade scores by Paparo and Oliver but demand to recognize the current one. You canot have it both ways. And it is your edits that appear personal as the usernames of the people making the edits in Ferreggi's favor match the usernames who are personal friends with him. This is a conflict of interest. Paparo's current Aurcade score should be recognized just as the prevoius ones are recognized in this very same section. I have done better than the previous editors by simply adding the full correct information. I trust that someone claiming to be interested in acccuaracy will leave it be. Anything else reeks of bias and vandalism. 47.190.47.120 (talk) 00:18, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Aurcade is used to keep track of noteworthy arcades such as KenCade. For Real. A guy's garage turned into a man cave is considered a noteworthy location. You could revert the changes 17 times and would still not get that elusive payday. Stop edit warring anon IP and have a civilized discussion right here and right now. AirplanePete (talk) 20:55, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

IP user, your response is what I mean by you're taking this personal. Your argument against the edits is entirely about who made the edits. Any disagreement with you, you say "reeks of bias and vandalsm". There is only one sentence there that actually deals with the subject matter, and if true would be relevant, but is instead a false description of my edits. Even still, that one is worth discussing. Just because aurcade recognizes a score that I and others also recognizes does not mean I recognized aurcade. I never recognized aurcade as an official site. Now, if some random site lists a record which has been verified elsewhere, and I acknowledge the same record, it does not mean that I am acknowledging the site. The older scores you are referring to which aurcade also acknowledges is more of a coincidence than my source. You'll note I never sourced them. Those scores were proven through eye witnesses and are not disputed. For the score you keep adding though, the only "source" we have is aurcade -- a club that allow arcade owners to enter their own scores with no proof or witnesses. A club that allows people will with a machine in their garage to call themselves an arcade and declare themselves world record holders. Now, I'm not going to unilaterally declare aurcade is not a valid source as you obviously think it is, but surely you can at least see where its debatable. I could see including both sides if enough people trust aurcade. Maybe something about despite the official record being held by ferretti, a mention to arcade listing a higher record? Completely removing all references to the official site and score though, I just dont see any justification for that. Also, are you aware aurcade uses Twin Galaxies as a source? For some scores they just import the Twin Galaxies score, and for other scores they use their own. So even if you value aurcade as reliable, then wouldnt have to also acknowledge your source's source, which is Twin Galaxies? SnowflakeFury (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:49, 1 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Here's how to draw the line on records/awards/etc.: Is the record/award/whatever discussed by independent reliable sources? If The New York Times writes an article about Kramer vs. Kramer, they are likely to discuss the film's numerous Academy Awards nominations and wins. They are not likely to so much as mention that the film came in third in Jimmy-Jobob's Movie Superfan blog's "First Annual Greatest Movies About Divorce" ranking. Citing Jimmy-Jobob's blog shows it is true that the film was on the list, it does not show that the blog is meaningful/reliable/relevant.


 * Yes, you might want to include the highest score ever on a game, the coldest temperature ever recorded in Iowa, the most teeth lost in a single hockey game or the longest monarch's rein in history. That does not mean that there are reliable records, the category is meaningful or that any site claiming to have tracked it is reliable. - Sum mer PhD v2.0 14:11, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Your edits are the ones that seem personal. Tell me why and how you can cite former Aurcade records by Paparo and Oliver yet you choose to ignore the current one because that information does not benefit your friend. You are ignoring that very big red flag. Write up clearly validates Aurcade as a source for records except for the current record only, as they wish to benefit their friend. Conflict of interest.47.190.47.120 (talk) 14:19, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

The last three bogus unproved scores by Paparo have nothing more than a lousy screen shot, no video, no proof of settings nor any evidence, other than pure hearsay, in fact Paparo's last 3 scores should not even be valid on any sight, holding no merit, the burden of proof is on Aurcade and Anthony Paparo, if the score was in fact beaten, #1 record it, 2 show settings, 3 show board and 4 submit it to Twingalaxies....... The subject matter on this is NOW closed. Rudy J. Ferretti is the Guinness World Record holder and Twingalaxies World Champion Period!!!!!!!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:183:4103:8CA0:6819:3A21:164A:C949 (talk) 03:50, 2 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Please discuss the issues below at Talk:Splatterhouse. - Sum mer PhD v2.0 13:44, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Personal Attacks
An anonymous user (47.190.47.120) keeps removing information regarding Rudy Ferretti and makes personal attacks. A noted public figure spoke this morning on his facebook page about receiving an email from this very user (47.190.47.120) calling him "a young historian". The public figure has a well established feud with both Ferretti and Billy Mitchell and now their articles keep getting modified to put them in a bad light. We are supposed to believe that this user (47.190.47.120) is NOT a sock puppet account of the public figure? It is strange that they are emailing each other regarding the facebook edits, and the user (47.190.47.120) keeps making allegations of conflict of interest etc. I believe they are the same person. There is no "young historian" out there.

Aurcade is not an independent reliable source for world records. Please stop using it to justify your personal vendetta. Ferretti's record is recognized by both Twin Galaxies and Guinness Datagod (talk) 15:23, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

If Aurcade is not a reliable source then why do your own continued edits cite previous Aurcade records? Why would Ferretti beat the Aurcade score. It seems you are determined to call it unreliable only when it suits your friend in a true conflict of interests. Please stop vanadlizing Wikipedia to benefit your friends. 71.86.114.4 (talk) 16:34, 1 August 2017 (UTC)


 * My recent edits are primarily restoration of sections that you or your sock puppet account (47.190.47.120) have blanked. You are an anonymous user yet you have inside information on relationships between people who are the subject of various articles?  That seems really strange, anonymous user from Denton Texas.   Datagod (talk) 17:26, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Starting over on this issue
Well, this is well past the point of civil discussion. A few ground rules that apply everywhere on Wikipedia, based on our (Wikipedia's) policies and guidelines.

1: Discuss content, not editors.
 * 1a: Who anyone is in the real world is immaterial and attempting to disclose their identities is not acceptable.
 * 1b: If you believe an editor is attempting to pass as two or more editors, the appropriate place to discuss that issue is in a sockpuppetry case. Instructions can be found at WP:SOCK.
 * 1c: Personal attacks are not acceptable anywhere on Wikipedia. If you aren't sure if something you are about to say is a personal attack, don't post it. If you'd like to argue that something might somehow not count as a personal attack, let me assure you every possible excuse has been tried before and will not prevent AN/I from blocking you.

2: Edit warring is not acceptable. While WP:3RR explains the "bright line" 3 revert rule, it is clear there is edit warring involved here. I have reverted to the version predating all of this. Attempts to change this information without establishing a consensus first will lead to appropriate warnings, blocks, sock cases, page protection, etc. as needed. If one side discusses the issue and the other does not, that discussion would become the new consensus.

3: We report what reliable sources say.
 * 3a: It seems there are three different sources being discussed here. Guinness World Records, IMO, starts off as a given. If you disagree, please explain. That said, a record recorded by Guinness is the highest score according to their criteria. Other sources may have other criteria and record higher or lower scores as a result. Other sources will have to be examined based on the criteria explained at WP:IRS.
 * 3b: Synthesis might be an issue here as well. If "Source A" says one thing and "Source B" says something that seems to disagree, we should not be attempting to explain the difference, call attention to it as a "controversy", etc. unless we have a reliable source that discusses the difference, calls it a controversy, etc.
 * 3c: This article seems to discuss living people. As a result, our policy on biographies of living people applies in this article and on this talk page. Do not add negative or controversial information or claims about living people in the article or on the talk page without citing a reliable source for the claim.
 * 3d: There seem to be some weasel words popping up. There was no "collusion", there are no "enemies" and there is no "recognized" high score. It is possible that "John Doe said there was collusion" or "The Official Games Report reported that Jane and John are enemies" or "The High Scores Foundation certified Billybob's score as their 'Most Highest Score EVERRRRRRRR!' on Burgertime", but the wording matters.

To move forward from here, I would suggest the editors involved first make it clear if they have edited under more than one user name and/or IP address. Next would be establishing which sources are reliable. - Sum mer PhD v2.0 00:57, 2 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the much needed reset, and an explanation of the rules. I apologize for the heated discussions, and will make every effort to discuss issues in a reasonable fashion.  Datagod (talk) 01:15, 2 August 2017 (UTC)


 * To be clear, I only make edits using my own account Datagod. I may browse the site anonymously from time to time, but my account is the only account I have.  Although I have had an account for years, I am still very much a noob. As such I appreciate the patience you have shown.   Datagod (talk) 01:27, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

The issue here is a simple case of consistency. The post recognizes not one but two previous scores as world records, both of them validated by Aurcade. Paparo's score, in fact, was NEVER validated by Twin Galaxies, which means the post very much validates Aurcade as a source. Guiness has also recoznied Aurcade as a source at times in the recent past, so while not one of their current "official partners" there is recognition there. Twin Galaxies does not have exclusive recognition by Guiness, they are only one of many sources they use. To recognize only a beaten record as valid via the source but refusing to recognize the current one makes no sense. Paparos is the highest score on the game posted on a recognized source and will remain so until someone defeats it. If Ferretti and his friends wish him to be recognized as champion he should defeat Paparo's score. Attempting to use Wikipedia to invalidate it while recognizing previous Aurcade validated scores is not consistent at all. 47.190.47.120 (talk) 16:00, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Furthemore, it appears previous controvery from Ferretti came because he did not feel he received proper credit in articles about Oliver and Paparo in articles that ran in valid sources like Kotaku and the Chicago Sun TImes, correct? In that case, how is it any more right for you and him to refuse proper credit now to Paparo, especially if you are so willing to recognize is former Aurcade scores as records? Am I wrong here? Is this not doing the same thing he claims others did to him?47.190.47.120 (talk) 16:12, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Also I am not related to any previous editors. I became aware of the edit war and potential conflict of interest here and aimed to repair it. NOthing more.47.190.47.120 (talk) 16:13, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Please stop adding the score back in before consensus. I'm seeing much of the explanation for adding the score having to do with speculation over Ferretti's feelings. With all do respect to Mr.Ferretti, his feelings on the score have no bearing on its accuracy. This goes both ways of course, citing any belief you may have about his feeling in no way validates the new score. All that is relevant here is whether or not aurcade is a valid source. Yes, some of aurcades scores are well accepted this does not mean however aurcade itself is a valid source. I can make a webpage, include some scores everyone believes, and then add a few of my own. This wouldnt mean I could cite my own page as a valid source for the scores that I want to receive recognition simply because I included some other scores that are accepted. To use aurcade as a source you need to be able to explain why, as a whole aurcade is reliable. Pointing to some other record aurcade listed which we all agree with does not establish aurcade as a reliable source.

And to answer the other question, I have no sock puppet accounts, this is my only account SnowflakeFury (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:24, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Another point to consider, is that if aurcade is a reliable source for scores, then Tim McVey does not have the world record for nibbler. I'm seeing a real double standard on when to treat aurcade as valid and when not. I currently do not believe aurcade is a valid source, however, if it is, then for consistency references to the nibbler world record would also have to be updated to indicate who aurcade lists as the record holder SnowflakeFury (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:52, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

I agree with you. If there is a higher score on Aurcade for that game then certainly the Wikipedia article should reflect it. I think all articles regarding this topic on all titles should reflect the current high score from whatever valid site lists it. 47.190.47.120 (talk) 21:34, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Anonymous user 47.190.47.120, I do not know who originally entered the scores tracked by Aurcade. It certainly was not me. The more we discuss this, the more I am convinced that those scores should be removed. Clearly Aurcade is not on the same footing as Twin Galaxies. Datagod (talk) 21:07, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

That is your opinion and one you are not objective on. You are listed as a "founding member" on the Twin Galaxies website, so your opinion on this comes with a conflict of interest.
 * preventing you from carrying out your anti-Twin Galaxies and anti-Billy Mitchell vendetta is NOT a conflict of interest. Datagod (talk) 22:09, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Let's look at facts.

1). The current Twin Galaxies database has existed since 2004 and had to be rebuilt. Aurcade has existed since 2009. Only a few years difference there. 2). Funspot/ACAM fired Twin Galaxies and replaced them with Aurcade in 2010. They continue to use Aurcade to this day. 3). Northwest Pinball and Gameroom Show fired Twin Galaxies and replaced them with Aurcade in 2011. The Wikipedia page for that show reflects this and recognizes those scores. 4). Guiness has cited Aurcade in the past, along with a dozen other various gaming scoreboards including but not limited to Twin Galaxies. 5). There have been no other issues in accepting Aurcade as a valid score source on other Wikipedia pages on similar topics, nor has there been any hesitation in the press about accepting their listings. 6). Aurcade has had more high score activity over the years than Twin Galaxies has. 7.) More events in the modern day use Aurcade than Twin Galaxies for adjudication.


 * needs citation Datagod (talk) 22:09, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

The court of public opinion accepts Aurcade as a valid scoreboard. Paparo's score should be listed here. 47.190.47.120 (talk) 21:34, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
 * There is no such thing as the court of public opinion. Datagod (talk) 22:11, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

The mere fact that Aurcade was hired to replace Twin Galaxies as major events should speak to their validity for sure.71.86.114.4 (talk) 22:01, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Breaking it down...
Well, we seem to have gotten nowhere. I guess we'll have to take this step by step.

Guinness World Records, Aurcade and Twin Galaxies seem to be the sources under discussion here as possible adjudicators of record scores. All of them seem to be primary sources. Do any of them have coverage of the record is secondary sources?

Before discussing whether any of them are reliable sources, there is a question of whether or not a record high score is encyclopedic. Guinness, for example, publishes tens of thousands of "records" on their website. The overwhelming majority of them have received no coverage in independent reliable sources and have no place in an encyclopedia. It would be fairly easy to find reliable sources discussing Glasgow Tower citing the Guinness record for tallest tower. As a result, it makes sense to include that in Glasgow Tower. It would be unlikely to find an article in a reliable source discussing bicycles that cites the Guinness record for bicycle eating. As a result, bicycle does not mention the record.

What independent reliable sources, if any, discuss ANY of these records? - Sum mer PhD v2.0 02:14, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

To the best of my knowledge, only Caitlin Oliver has secondary coverage. We all seem to agree she no longer has the record though, so the problem with only listing her record is it gives the misleading impression which she still he has it. Her former record is the more encyclopedic record. I would seem to me though, that once you include a record, if that record is later broken, it would be extremely misleading to leave that out. SnowflakeFury (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:24, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

I could only find Caitlin Oliver to have coverage outside of the score boards. At the time there were (false) claims that she was the first woman to beat an arcade record in over 30 years. A highly misogynistic view that only served to propagate sexist stereotypes from the 80's. I agree with SnowlakeFury that if her record is notable and has since been broken (a feat recognized by an independent and reputable world record tracking organization such as Twin Galaxies) then it would be misleading to leave the original record by itself. Datagod (talk) 17:59, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

That sort of claim coming from an editor who fought for weeks to defend historical facts that had been proven repeatedly to be false.

That said, many of the initial Oliver articles also mention Paparo as the record holder she defeated, meaning they, too, recognize Aurcade as a source for record information. I can find no independent sources that mention the person who is once again falsely credited with being the current champion on this page, and I again cite that online interaction between Ferretti, Datagod and Snowflakes shows a connection that makes their constant defense of his "record" on here to be a clear cut case of conflict of interest, as does the fact that Datagod is listed a a "Founder" on the Twin Galaxies website, a website he is claiming on here has absolute and sole power over such stats.

Very clear: Paparo has a higher score under the same settings, accomplished at a live venue with witnesses. This page recognizes scores Paparo gained in the same manner through the same source in the past, so therefore it only makes sense to accept the current score as THE record. If Mr. Ferretti and his friends want him to be recognized on this Wiki page as the record holder, I suggest he defeats Paparo's record rather than attempt selective omission.71.86.114.4 (talk) 12:59, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

I dont agree thats "very clear" at all, if it were we wouldnt be having this discussion. I also take issue with again calling any editors who disagree with you friends of Ferretti. Once more, this in not about "wanting" an individual to get recognition, its about wanting the report to be accurate. As you're convinced edits must have something to do with personal feelings would you mind sharing your personal and conflicts of interest here? SnowflakeFury (talk) 22:32, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

There are direct interactions all over the Twin Galaxy forums between Ferretti and users with the names Datagod and Snowflake. Connection is obvious. The only reason there is a discussion is because you two have engaged in an edit war that ignores Paparo's current Aurcade score despite his former one being recognized and undisputed in the very post you continue to edit. The only people disputing Aurcade as a source have a connection to Twin Galaxy directly according to their own website. Yes, it is clear. Now please stop trying to deflect onto me and bow out, because your clearly not going to be impartial on this matter.

Bottoml ine, Aurcade is a respected long-term source and recognized as such even on this very page. The current world record is listed there, yet you two continue to dispute it, and the beneficiary is someone you both interact with on the Twin Galaxy forums. Very clear cut case of conflict of interest. It is only out of respect to the Wiki editors that wanted to open this up to discussion that I do not once again join in with the others making the correction here to the REAL world record score. I hope they can see through your collusion with Ferretti to supress the truth, possibly because he is unable to out score Paparo.71.86.114.4 (talk) 13:54, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Again, just a bunch of weasel words and accusing me of bias is not making a case. I'm trying really hard not to sink to your level but you're making it difficult. If you want to make it personal, then reveal your conflict of interest in this case. Reveal your personal complaints. Any issue you think you have with me, take the appropriate avenue for that. The fact that the majority of your argument is based on personal attacks really speaks to your emotional interest in this subject. Are you an investor in Aurcade? Are you friends with Paparo? Do you have a vendetta against Ferretti? You seem to know alot about Ferretti and his activities, I'm guessing you're one of his enemies. Honestly, I dont care if your his enemy or not, I'm not gonna waste my time trying to out who you really are. But if all you care about is accusing people of conflict of interest instead of facts then perhaps you should out yourself. SnowflakeFury (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:02, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Deflecting by coming at me personally is in conflict to your own statements complaining about them. Anyone can simply go to the Twin Galaxy forums and see Ferretti interacting with usernames such as Datagod and Snowflake. Are you actually claiming that as coincidence? I'm simply saying that such interaction is a conflict of interest here, you are both too close to Ferretti to be objective and involved yourself into an edit war with me and others that favored him. I'm simply saying that your statuses as Twin Galaxy "founders" also is a conflict of interest considering your edits claim Twin Galaxy as a sole "official" source, a fact that is not true.

None of it answers as to why Aurcade is an acceptable source for the mention of a former World Record but not for the current one. That is the root case here. Aurcade is clearly a publicly accepted source EVEN ON THIS VERY WIKIPEDIA PAGE. The idea of selective acceptance of Aurcade data is wild, and the fact the only ones fighting for Ferretti interact with him publcly on the Twin Galaxy forums is not personal, it is viable relevant information to this "issue"71.86.114.4 (talk) 17:36, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Criticizing you for making personal attacks of me is not a personal attack on you. I'm stunned you're taking it that way. How can I discuss things with you if I cant refer to what you're saying? Again, if you think I have a conflict of interest handle it through appropriate channels. I'm not gonna deny your guesses of who I am until you get it right through trial and error nor am I going to confirm any. I did compromise enough to say I'm not friends with Ferretti. I've noticed you still dont deny being his enemy. I have no conflict of interest but again, if you think this is a relevant place to discuss who we are, you go first. By your own admission above you closely follow the posts of individuals on the twin galaxies forums. I dont know how you can admit to be tracking Ferretti's conversation and claim not to have a vendetta against him. I'm not talking about what you said anywhere else, I'm talking about your comments right there, your comments right here demonstrate you are obsessed with Ferretti to the point of cataloging his list of online interactions. I dont need to try to out you or go to another site to see your conflicts of interest. Whatever issue you have with Ferrretti, I dont care, its not relevant. You are obsessed with Ferretti for whatever reason, I only care about the score and the game. If you really want his score removed then I suggest making it about the score and not whatever information you claim to have found in the process of stalking him. I have no desire to see any of his conversations, photos, or other pieces of information you collected while stalking him. Lets keep this about the subject matter.

To again answer your aurcade question, the fact that some scores in aurcade are believed due to their references elsewhere in no way makes aurcade in and of itself a reliable source. I have repeatedly stated why I dont find a club of arcade machines owners who enter their own scores with no video proof to be of note.

Consider this, Twin Galaxies has a wikipedia page, Aurcade does not. If you really believe Aurcade is of note, why not start a discussion to add an Aurcade page? To view Aurcade as encyclopedic when you can use it against people with whom you have a conflict of interest, but to not even care about it not having a page I think shows that noone, not even you honestly believes this internet club is encyclopedic. SnowflakeFury (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:13, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

You continue to try to make it about supposed grudges just as you deflect in the same way you claim to dislike. At the end of the day, it is about simple fact, especially considering Aurcade was/is a good enough source on this very page for the former record but not the current one. You cannot be selective on this.

As for Wikipedia pages being the catalyst for what is or is not noteworthy, there are millions of relevant topics and people who do not have one. That said, one of the most frequent editors of the Twin Galaxies Wikipedia page over the years is the founder of the organization. The page was created by someone in his same town, and an account with his very name added most of the information to it. Do we wish to also explore that conflict of interest?

I don't, because it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that Aurcade is a frequently cited source in the media and on here INCLUDING ON THIS VERY ARTICLE in the VERY SECTION you wish to discuss. You only want to ignore the current record and deflect from the reasons why. Again, you can't be selective in defending a post that cites Aurcade for the previous score but refuse to accept the current one.

Why doesn't Ferrett just beat his score and make the point moot?71.86.114.4 (talk) 20:00, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

If you want to know Ferretti doesnt just beat his score and make the point moot then ask him, you seem to know him pretty well. I'm not gonna harass someone I dont know demanding they get an even higher score just so that I can make a more convincing case here. If you want him to get a higher score then you can contact, I cannot and will not speak for him.

I've deflected nothing. I've answered all your relevant and irrelevant points alike. If giving you an answer you dont like is what you mean by deflection, then guilty as charged, but I have adressed all your points. I have yet to hear you give a single reason why the Aurcade club should be treated as a noteworthy source. This is whats worth discussing. Why is Aurcade notable? SnowflakeFury (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:03, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

As previously stated, besides the fact Aurcade is cited in the very statement in question, Aurcade replaced Twin Galaxies at the Funspot and Northwest Pinball events, they have multiple destination locations where records can be set (Twin Galaxy doesn't have this), Guinness has cited them from time to time, they adjudicate live events multiple times per year to this day, and frankly, if not for Aurcade we wouldn't be having this discussion.71.86.114.4 (talk) 21:12, 18 August 2017 (UTC)


 * I am curious to know how you know so much about Twin Galaxies and Aurcade. you have claimed multiple times that Twin Galaxies was "fired" and replaced with Aurcade.  Can you provide references to back up that claim, or is it insider knowledge because you were at Funspot in 2009 (last year of Twin Galaxies tracking their scores) and 2010 (first year for Aurcade)? I also find it curious that you seem to know a lot about the current record holder (according to Twin Galaxies) Rudy Ferretti and his online conversations on other forums, all the while maintaining that you are not in any way conflicted.  Regardless, unless you can demonstrate that Aurcade is notable, it should not be treated as such. Datagod (talk) 21:37, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Your own comments references it by noting that Aurcade replaced Twin Galaxies at that annual event. As for your other irrelevant inqury, it is easy enough to look at the Talaxies website and see you listed as a founder and supporting the gamer on their forums. Still has nothing to do with the happenstance you yourself confirm: Aurcade replaced Twin galaxy at the Funspot event. That makes them equal.71.86.114.4 (talk) 16:45, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

The refusal to give the source speaks volumes. Additionally, for now I'll assume the claim is in good faith and while every detail adds up I dont think a club running a single event makes then equal the official score keeping organization in all ways. I will say I believe funspot is a well known arcade so it does count for something. I really dont understand where such protracted debates are needed to get your to give sources. In previous discussions you did eventually present the source, so I'm inclined to believe you have the source here too, so why not just present it instead of turning everything into a fight? SnowflakeFury (talk) 16:59, 19 August 2017 (UTC)


 * So, your source is me? That makes no sense.  I made no mention of "firing", that is all you.  You keep bringing up alleged identities of people outside of wikipedia as a way of defending your edits.  Clearly you have a grudge and are not interested in bettering this article.  Why don't you sign up for a real account instead of hiding behind an IP address from Denton Texas?  Datagod (talk) 00:48, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

No, simply noting that you admitted yourself that which you ask me to provide a source for. Yet again, you deflect into claims of personal grudges and a continued witch hunt. Still not who you want me to be, friend, and the core issue here is still why you refuse to accept Aurcade for the current score but you are willing to accept it for the previous score. Still does not overshadow the fact you are a "Twin Galaxy Founder" on their website, making your "Twin galaxy is the only official whatever" a conflict of interests. 71.86.114.4 (talk) 14:26, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Can I take this to mean you're refusing to provide the sources? Arguing back and forth like this makes no progress. If you willing to provide sources, do so. If you're not willing to provide sources, at least say so and I'll accept there's no point in continuing this. SnowflakeFury (talk) 15:04, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

There's no need when the ones fighting the issue are already admitting it is factual. Dagatod stated specific dates in admitting to it. Now please stop deflecting away from the fact that both of you are listed as key members on the Twin Galaxy website and shown in public interacting with the "record holder" your fight benefits. Conflict of interest.71.86.114.4 (talk) 17:12, 20 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Rudy Ferretti is recognized by Twin Galaxies as the world record holder. I added his photo to the article.  It is notable.  Datagod (talk) 16:06, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

But he is not holder of the higher score. If your friend Snowflade will remove edits claimint no consensus then I can too. 71.86.114.4 (talk) 17:12, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Really? Asking for sources is "deflection"? No, your false claims of conflict of interest are deflection from your refusal to provide sources. To be abundantly clear yet again, let me state I have no conflict of interest. I am not deflecting from your point, I'm outright denying it. I have addressed your point. To be fair, you've addressed my point too on references, but considering the way you've addressed it is by refusing to provide sources I dont really find that satisfactory.

As for removing edits without consensus, yes, that is appropriate for you to remove but to weasel in the claim we're friends to try to further your narrative of conflict of interest is still as inappropriate as always. You have no sources, no facts. You have only your vendetta against anything that goes against your clubs interests. I hope anyone reading this can see your refusal to provide any sources as evidence you know you're making things up, additionally, combining that with comments you made here and on other talk pages admitting a relationship with the owner of the us national video game team facebook club and its plainly clear this is just a vendetta. Please actually do some research. Opinion and strong feelings do not override facts. As long as you continue to refuse to look at the facts then no argument, no matter how passionately you make it, will be valid. SnowflakeFury (talk) 18:23, 20 August 2017 (UTC)