Talk:Subcomandante Marcos

Re: "The Zapatista Struggle Continues (1994– )" section
This is a very oddly structured section that gives very little actual detail on the subject matter, instead listing numerous events that Marcos has attended, without any further context being given. The sources cited are also largely from the Enlace Zapatista, which should be clear is not a reliable source. I think this subsection needs to be completely redone in order to provide actual information about Marcos' activities post-1994, possibly changing the heading to something more appropriate, or else it should be removed entirely. --Grnrchst (talk) 16:24, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

I am the author of this section. My purpose was to produce a brief picture of all the events that Marcos took part in so as to show the extent of his role as spokesperson and (for want of a better word) "front man" for the Zapatistas. I take the point made by Grnrchst, in that the purpose of this section is perhaps not made clear, so I intend to alter that in a week or so, but I feel that entirely removing the whole section is too much (throwing the baby out with the bathwater indeed!). Finally, I see no problem with the source (stated above as being Enlace Zapatista) as what is listed here are simple facts (dates, venues, event names), and these are all attested to by other sources (most often journalists reporting in La Jornada) and are not contested by anyone. Lucerito1957 (talk) 06:20, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

I have now completed the rewrite of the introduction to this section. Lucerito1957 (talk) 07:58, 26 August 2021 (UTC)


 * I see that this section was deleted despite my above justification for writing (and re-writing) it. Since Grnrchst (talk) did not engage in the discussion above, but simply waited a while and then deleted this section, I have re-instated it. However, to address the concerns of Grnrchst (talk) I have moved the actual list of events to an Appendix.
 * Without this section on the Zapatista struggle continuing, a reader would have no idea of what Marcos did in the nearly 20 years from 1995 to now. Worse, it would give the impresion he had been inactive, when nothing could be further from the truth.
 * As for sources, these have been added, but there is really no doubt that these events took place. Enlace Zapatista may not be a neutral source, but it contains photographs and recordings from these events, proving that they actually took place and that Marcos was present, which is all that is being claimed in the article. Lucerito1957 (talk) 01:05, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hey, apologies, I didn't see this. I agree that the article does need to be something to display Marcos' recent activities, but I still don't think this list is it. While its purpose is clearer, it still doesn't communicate actual solid information about his activities, it just lists events he showed up to. What level of participation did he have? What did he say about them? Why were these events important to his biography? These are the kind of things I don't think are easily communicated in a simple list. I'm happy to leave this up for now, until a better alternative section can be written, but I think this is a case where using prose would be a lot more helpful for the reader than a timeline. --Grnrchst (talk) 10:51, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The list is not simply of "events Marcos showed up to". As the preamble makes clear, it is a list of events that were either convened by the Zapatistas and where Marcos played a major role by presiding over them and often initiating, organizing, or orchestrating them, or were put on by other organizations at which Marcos acted as representative of and spokesperson for, the Zapatistas. I feel it gives a snapshot of the sheer amount of such activities and endeavors undertaken by Marcos on behalf of the Zapatistas, which in turn gives an insight into his importance within the movement. If you feel this is still not satisfactory, I am happy to discuss this further. Henck’s Subcomandante Marcos, Global Rebel Icon contains a quite thorough timeline of such events up to 2018 that the reader here could instead be pointed to after a short prose discussion. Lucerito1957 (talk) 11:26, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Death
as per the communique published last year, sup Galeano (prior Marcos) has died in october of 2023. Additionally, the communique is signed as "Capitan Insurgente Marcos". The cause is not mentioned in the text. Possible post-mortem title change?

original communique in spanish https://enlacezapatista.ezln.org.mx/2023/10/29/segunda-parte-los-muertos-estornudan/ english translation https://enlacezapatista.ezln.org.mx/2023/10/30/second-part-do-dead-people-sneeze/ 31.183.158.137 (talk) 17:32, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 * See . It doesn't seem he's actually dead. It's just symbolic.--Jack Upland (talk) 23:26, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Appendix
Moving this section from the article to this talk page for safe-keeping. It's possible this can be used as a timeline of some sort but it would need to be sourced to reliable, secondary sources if note worthy. It's currently mostly sourced to unreliable and primary sources.

The following is a list of events (in chronological order) that were either convened by the Zapatistas, and initiated, organized, orchestrated, or presided over by Marcos, or at which he played a major role; or events put on by other organizations at which Marcos acted as representative of, or spokesperson for, the Zapatistas (EZLN):
 * Peace Talks (March 1994)
 * National Democratic Convention (August 1994)
 * The First National Indigenous Forum (January 1996)
 * Meetings with Oliver Stone, Danielle Mitterrand and Régis Debray (April / May 1996)
 * The Intercontinental Encuentro For Humanity and Against Neoliberalism (July / August 1996)
 * The Zapatistas' Second Encuentro with Civil Society (May 1999)
 * The March of the Color of the Earth / The March for Indian Dignity (February / March 2001)
 * The Other Campaign (January—December 2006)
 * Spanish Television (TVE) interview with Marcos by Jesús Quintero (June 2006)
 * The First Encounter between the Zapatistas and the Peoples of the World (January 2007)
 * The 12th Hispano-American Meeting of Writers "Hours of June" at Sonora University (June 2007)
 * The "Ethics and Politics" Conference at the UNAM (June 2007)
 * The National Forum Against Repression in Mexico City (June 2007)
 * The Second Encounter between the Zapatistas and the Peoples of the World (July 2007)
 * The "Latin America as seen from the Other Campaign" Round Table at the National School of Anthropology and History (July 2007)
 * The "Confronting Capitalist Dispossession: The Defense of Land and Territory" The Press Club (July 2007)
 * A Round Table at the University of the Earth in San Cristóbal (July 2007)
 * The Encuentro of the Indigenous Peoples of America held in Sonora (October 2007)
 * The First International Colloquium in Memory of Andrés Aubry: Planet Earth, Anti-systemic Movements (December 2007)
 * The National and International Caravan for Observation and Solidarity with Zapatista Communities (August 2008)
 * The Global Festival of Dignified Rage (January 2009)
 * The Celebration in Homage to Compañeros Luis Villoro Toranzo and Zapatista Teacher Galeano (May 2015)
 * The Seminar on Critical Thought in the Face of the Capitalist Hydra (May 2015)
 * The ConSciences for Humanity (December 2016 – January 2017)
 * The "Walls of Capital, the Cracks of the Left" Seminar (April 2017)
 * ConSciences for Humanity Festival (December 2017)
 * "To Watch, to Listen, to Speak: No Thinking Allowed?" Round Table Discussion (April 2018)
 * The First "Puy ta Cuxlejaltic" Film Festival (November 2018)
 * The Second "Puy ta Cuxlejaltic" Film Festival (December 2019)

czar 14:31, 5 July 2024 (UTC)