Talk:The Day Before the Revolution

External Link to Copyright Violation
I would assume that this short story is still copyright. So I am concerned about the external link to a website hosting the entire text of the story at no cost. Perhaps I am mistaken, but if not, the external link should be removed. Wikipedia shouldn't function as a guide to locate stolen material. Cheers! Npd2983 (talk) 02:20, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on The Day Before the Revolution. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090505221416/http://www.locusmag.com/SFAwards/Db/LocusNomList.html to http://www.locusmag.com/SFAwards/Db/LocusNomList.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 22:25, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Book reviews not indexed by the ISFDB
, I took a look in Hal Hall's SF Book Review Index 1974-1979 and found some not mentioned in the ISFDB entries. Rather than try to expand the cryptic entries, I'll type them in verbatim (minus the ones in the ISFDB) and then give the key, though some of this is obvious enough. -- More to come later this evening. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:13, 12 September 2023 (UTC) The key: The structure of a line is: Magazine code/volume & issue/pagination/date/reviewer. Hope this is useful; some of these I've never heard of and are probably little more than high end fanzines, but others might be accessible via WP:LIBRARY or WP:RX. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:46, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Nebula Award Stories 10
 * KR 43(19):1149. 0. 1, 1975.
 * Passing mention only - V93
 * PW 208(16):62-63. 0. 20, 1975.
 * LOC 182:4. D. 17, 1975.  (C. Brown)
 * This issue is not on the IA, and AFAICS the only systematic collection catalogued online is at Duke University, in print. - V93
 * BKL 72(9):615. Ja. 1, 1976. (D. Miller)
 * BS 35(12):367. Mr. 1976. (J. Ayd)
 * SDNP p. 9. Ja. 3, 1976. (D. Miller)
 * TLS 3858:186. F. 20, 1976. (E. Korn)
 * Available via TWL but passing mention of this story only - V93.
 * HB 52(3):320. Je. 1976. (M. Cosgrave)
 * SFO 48/49/40:57-60, 38. 0/D. 1976. (G. Turner)
 * SFBL 7:7. Ja/F. 1976. (K. Justice)
 * KPG 11:11. Spring 1977. (E. Boatner)
 * The Wind's Twelve Quarters
 * KR 43(16):942. Ag. 15, 1975.
 * No mention at all of this story - V93
 * PW 208(10):55. S. 8, 1975.
 * LJ 100(18):1951. 0. 15, 1975. (C. Power)
 * Not archived so far as I can tell; earlier issues are available. - V93
 * FANA 3(11/12):15. N/D. 1975. (D. Keller)
 * Appears to be a fanzine: . - V93
 * LOC 182:7. D. 17, 1975. (C. Brown)
 * SDNP p. 8. N. 8, 1975. (D. Miller)
 * NST 997:187-188. Ap. 22, 1976. (M. Sherwood)
 * Available for free on Google books but no mention of this story - V93.
 * SLJ 22(7):120. Mr. 1976. (C. Starr)
 * Not archived so far as I can tell; earlier issues are available. - V93
 * CHO 13(1):71. Mr. 1976.
 * If this exists online, I cannot find it; multiple magazines by this name. - V93
 * LM 63:16-17. Mr. 1976. (P. Walker)
 * HB 52(4):430-431. Ag. 1976. (M. Cosgrave)
 * TLS 3881:950. Jl. 30, 1976. (J. Miller)
 * A lyrical review of TWTQ but no mention of this story. - V93
 * KPG 10(4):22. N. 1976.
 * Not archived beyond the 1980s. - V93
 * SFO 44/45:20-23. D. 1975. (G. Turner)
 * BKL 72(9):615. Ja. 1, 1976. (D. Miller)
 * Not archived so far as I can tell; earlier issues are available. - V93
 * SFFN 11/12:3. S. 1976. (S. Burns)
 * Newsletter, not editorially reviewed, I believe. - V93
 * SFBL 10:4-5. Jl/Ag. 1976. (K. Justice)
 * QME 47:85-86. D. 1977. (F. Rottensteiner)
 * In German - V93
 * More Women of Wonder
 * LM 67:34. Spring 1977. (G. Futoran)
 * Fanzine, but available. . -V93
 * BKL 73(3):239. 0. 1, 1976. (D. Miller)
 * SLJ 23(1):144. S. 1976. (E. Sisco)
 * Not archived so far as I can tell; earlier issues are available. - V93
 * KPG 10(4):92. N. 1976. (J. Jackson)
 * PW 209(24):111. Je. 14, 1976.
 * KR 44(12):704. Je. 15, 1976.
 * KR 44(13):743. Jl. 1, 1976.
 * Not sure which this is, but passing mention only. - V93
 * SFBL 11:3. S/O. 1976. (K. Justice)
 * Very very kind of you, Mike! I'll try and dig through those that I can find online, but it might be a couple of days. Vanamonde (Talk) 23:29, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
 * BKL Booklist
 * BS Best Sellers
 * CHO Choice
 * FANA Fantasiae
 * HB Horn Book
 * KPG Kliatt Paperback Book Guide
 * KR Kirkus Reviews
 * LJ Library Journal
 * LM Luna Monthly
 * LOC Locus
 * NST New Scientist
 * PW Publishers Weekly
 * QME Quarber Merkur
 * SDNP Chicago Daily News. Panorama.
 * SFBL SF Booklog
 * SFFN SF & F Newsletter
 * SFO SF Commentary
 * SLJ School Library Journal
 * TLS Times (London) Literary Supplement

Pre-FAC review
I should be able to make a start on this today. Do you have all the Locus reviews, by the way? I think I got access to more after we last spoke about this article. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:02, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks as always. It may take me a day or two to work through this but it's at the top of my list. I did work in the Locus reviews we discussed, but I'm happy to hear suggestions for points I've missed. There's also some newspaper reviews I skipped, because I didn't feel they added anything; typically a single sentence with an adjective or two. Vanamonde93 (talk) 23:26, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

I'll make minor copyedits as I read through. Of course revert anything you don't like. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:28, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:47, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
 * In the alternate history of this universe: shouldn't this be "In this fictional universe" or something along those lines? There's no branch point apparent where the histories diverge so we can say it's "alternate", unless we mean the Hain seeding Earth, but I doubt Le Guin thought of it as an alternate history.
 * This is a good question. The terms "alternate history" and "alternative history" are in fact used for the Hainish Cycle, but not very commonly. Hain does, in fact, seed earth in these stories, and that shared biological heritage is a common theme (as acknowledged by many sources). As such I used the term as what I felt was an uncontentious descriptor; if you feel it's veering into analysis, though, I can remove it. If I did, I would likely rework the preceding sentence as well, something like ""The Day Before the Revolution" takes place in Le Guin's fictional Hainish universe, in which human beings did not evolve on Earth, but on Hain." That would leave out the term "fictional universe" but avoids considerable repetition. Thoughts? Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:42, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I think that would be an improvement. I think it's best to reserve "alternate history" for the genre which is explicitly about the consequences of a change in history.  And I agree your proposed wording is concise. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 20:34, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, done.
 * Written soon after The Dispossessed (1974), "The Day Before the Revolution" is described as a prologue to that novel. That novel is set in the same planetary system: the idealized anarchist society depicted in it is based on Odo's teachings, and .... Suggest ""The Day Before the Revolution" was written soon after The Dispossessed (1974); it is described as a prologue to that novel, which is set in the same planetary system. The idealized anarchist society depicted in The Dispossessed is based on Odo's teachings, and ...".
 * Done.
 * Can you remind me how we know she died that night? If I recall correctly it's not explicit at the end of the story.  Is it from somewhere in The Dispossessed?
 * It's implied in the text, though not in a way that we could state it; but multiple reviews assume it to be true, and I'm unaware of any contesting this point. I'm okay attributing it if you feel it is necessary, but it becomes awkwardly wordy.
 * No need; just couldn't remember exactly. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:34, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 * The precise quotes from Spivack (which I dug up for a different section) are "Her laborious climb up to her own room is in reality an ascent to her own death", and "Odo will not see the revolution she has brought about", which of course is heavily implied to be the next day. I'm happy to adjust the wording if needed. Vanamonde93 (talk) 01:28, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
 * A review in Galaxy described it as one of two "gems" in the same collection, and said it was "writing at its best, beautiful and deeply moving".. Suggest "A review of the same collection in Galaxy described the story as a "gem ... writing at its best, beautiful and deeply moving".
 * Much more elegant, done.
 * Science fiction critic George Slusser wrote that it is "harshly realistic" in its focus on death and old age.. Suggest "Science fiction critic George Slusser found it "harshly realistic" in its focus on death and old age." This is just to get rid of one of the "wrote that" usages; there are seven and it would be nice to cut more.
 * Agreed. Done.
 * In the lead we say multiple scholars regard the story as a marker of Le Guin's turn towards feminism. Unless I'm missing something this is only supported by Erlich and White.  I don't think it's a particularly controversial point, but if there are others who say it it might be good to make a topic paragraph out of the sentences from Erlich and White.
 * The turn toward feminism in this period is uncontroversial and widely attested, but if others have listed this story as an example I'm not aware off the top of my head. I'll dig through my sources again, but I'm not sure we can expand what I have very much.
 * OK if you want to leave it, but could we use the sources that just say "in this period" to make the topic paragraph, and use Erlich and White to support identifying this story as one of those showing the turn towards feminism? Not a big deal if you don't see a way to weave the sources like that -- just seems like an opportunity to reinforce what you're saying about where the story fits in her career. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 20:34, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure that there is a way to do this without veering into OR. I've re-read a fair bit since my reply above, and while to my eye the connections are clear I don't believe they're explicit enough to say more at the moment.
 * noted that Le Guin's science fiction was notable for: can we avoid having "noted" and "notable" so close together?
 * Reworked.
 * Can we get an introductory word for Harris-Fain?
 * Done
 * Writing in Extrapolation Carl Yoke stated that: suggest "Carl Yoke said in Extrapolation that".
 * Done.
 * Darren Harris-Fain called it a "moving depiction" of Odo, and stated that "The Day Before the Revolution" was among stories with thorough character development that demonstrated the literary worth of science fiction.. Suggest "Darren Harris-Fain called it a "moving depiction" of Odo, and said that the thorough character development in "The Day Before the Revolution" made it one of the stories that demonstrated the literary worth of science fiction."
 * Much less awkward, done.
 * I'm done except for Themes; I want to have a bit more mental energy to think about that one -- maybe tomorrow. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:04, 20 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Various pieces of her are undone over time: "pieces of her" doesn't seem very natural. Perhaps "elements of her life"?
 * I did this earlier, but forgot to make note.
 * ... Le Guin examines a person's essential motivations besides idealism. Odo acknowledges to herself sex and vanity, and also mulls over the happiness she had and then lost: it took me a second to realize that sex and vanity are examples of motivation. And do we need to say "a person"; is the source generalizing, or can we just say "Odo"?  How about "Le Guin examines Odo's essential motivations besides idealism. Odo acknowledges to herself that both sex and vanity have motivated her, and also"?
 * Slusser does actually generalize, referring to humanity, but I agree the link to motive isn't clear later in the sentence. Adjusted ; thoughts?
 * Not sure about this, but how about taking the sentences from "Spivack analyzes Odo" to the end and making them a separate paragraph, and moving them to become the third para? Thematically they seem to fit well after the discussion of aging in para 2.
 * I don't fully follow; do you mean swapping the two halves of para 3? The sentence you refer to is already in the third paragraph. Vanamonde93 (talk) 01:28, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, that was a bit opaque. What I meant was that the second half of para 3, starting with "Spivack analyzes Odo", follows thematically from para 2, so if you moved that text up to become a new para 3, making the first half of the current para 3 into para 4, that might flow well.  Not married to the idea, just a suggestion.  No other changes to suggest; I'll read this again when you nominate it at FAC and I'm sure will support. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 02:50, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I did feel like Spivack's point connects well with the other content in the paragraph, but I see your point too; I've reordered without splitting paragraphs, hopefully that's a workable via media? Vanamonde93 (talk) Vanamonde93 (talk) 22:06, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

That's everything. Looks good. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:34, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I've tried to address everything; happy to hear more responses, if you don't have further changes to suggest I'll nominate this over the weekend. Vanamonde93 (talk) 01:28, 3 February 2024 (UTC)