Talk:The Irregular at Magic High School

GA to do
I don't know if there are people watching this article but with more Light novel citations, and some prose fixes, it should be able to reach GA. If not, I'll just have to do it myself at some point. DragonZero ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 22:17, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Physical attraction
Kingkano987. Tatsuya saying he is sexually attracted to Mayumi is trivia information. He also said the same thing about Honoka but that doesn't mean we're going to note every single woman he feels attracted to. DragonZero ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 07:46, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
 * This particular detail is very trivial. It doesn't actually define Tatsuya's character. The only reason it is there is to cause the reader to presume something more is there when there isn't. —Farix (t &#124; c) 10:56, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
 * If it was a one of comment which he has said to other women in the series I see no reason to include this.--76.65.41.126 (talk) 22:20, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Kingkano987. When asked by Shizuka's mother. Admitting someone has an nice body or what not is just a nonchalant comment. You're referencing his comment to Mari, which does not single Mayumi out. He also noted lust is still there, and has made multiple mentions about his female friends appearances. DragonZero  ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 19:25, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Dragonzero. There is different, It's likely an out of courtesy comment "Tatsuya’s attitude was more or less just playing along for show. Without being aware of what he was looking for, he was carefully scrutinizing Benio for the purpose behind these words without letting a single detail slip by" - Vol 12. While about Mayumi, Tatsuya genuinely thinks that, there are words showed his monologue too, he reasoned that even for him, it can't be helped since it is natural for any human.. In volume 18th, remembered his talk with Mari. Tatsuya thinks he does like her as a woman, but not in a romantic manner (well, exactly it's applied to any girl). While in other series, it's pretty much insignificant, but not this series, when MC is a guy who got his emotions reduced to nil, it's something worth to note. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kingkano987 (talk • contribs) 23:29, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
 * No, it's insignificant. This doesn't define the character, placing it under Fancruft. If you can find this disagreeable, this can be settled with a straw vote, which have participants who have no interest in the series. DragonZero  ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 02:38, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Category incest in fiction
Good night all. My question is: it seems to me, despite the fact that the work has not yet ended, Shiba siblings are likely to become a couple in the end of title. Therefore, whether it is appropriate to add an article in the category of "incest in fiction"? The fact that they continue to be a blood-related brother and sister, the author confirmed in the same 16th volume and and they continue to be portrayed as a brother and sister throughout the series at the moment. Or is it still too early to draw any conclusions? I don't want to make an inconsiderate act as the category itself is rather disputable. P.S Sorry for my bad english. Solaire the knight (talk) 22:13, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

link. And it's not just MAL, it's official advertising from the localization publisher. God, she loves her brother so much that every second character says that they look like lovers. Not to mention their engagement, when he tells his sister that he will try to fall in love with her as a woman and not reject her after confession. It's like ask sources that SAO has a virtual reality, for his sister's incestuous feelings are one of the most famous elements of this title. Solaire the knight (talk) 19:03, 3 May 2017 (UTC) - This is all her words from their dialogue in the 16th volume, after which he promises to try and gives his consent to their engagement. It's enough? Solaire the knight (talk) 19:22, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Per WP:CATDEF is it a defining category? Is the series marketed as incest-themed? Would most reviewers group it as such? The article says they are genetically different, so would that mean they're not really blood related?  There's I Don't Like You at All, Big Brother!! where the sister learns she is not blood related. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 22:25, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Here a difficult question, because in this context, "genetically different" does not refer to different origins, and means that some of the genes of his sisters (which, together with Tatsuya born from the same father and mother) were artificially improved to avoid the consequences of incest. Thus, the work examines the theme of incest with the position of science fiction. The problem is that despite the regular lifting theme incestuous feelings Miyuki, for all 20 volumes that they never even kissed. Therefore, I decided first to raise the issue here. Solaire the knight (talk) 22:34, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Even if it was made clear up front in the series that they were created genetically different from the same biological parents, is the theme of the show about the struggles of whether they should have a romantic and sexual relationship? What have the critics and reviewers said about this? It looks like from the reviews posted in refideas, the sister has a brother complex, so does it go both ways? AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 22:43, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I therefore decided to first ask the question, because despite the fact that romantic line uniquely served as a traditional "imouto madly in love with her onii-chan", the author tries to stretch the matter so that the viewer is still doubt in such an outcome. In general, the main difference between this series from other incest-titles, is the idea of ​​"siblings have a normal family, if girls genes are sufficiently improved to the consequences of incest did not work". At the moment, the brother also has a very special sister complex, but without the romantic subtext, though he is ready to obey the order to marry her, if it makes her happy. All this is so ridiculously confusing, that me it's hard to explain in words is even in my native language. Solaire the knight (talk) 22:59, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
 * In general, as I understand it, all the same it is too early. Well Well, let's wait then ending or more tangible progress in the relationship of the main characters. Thank you for the constructive dialogue and sorry for my bad enlgish, again :) Solaire the knight (talk) 00:24, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
 * You shouldn't have to wait for how it ends, but dig up reviews and analysis of the series and see if the preponderance of them have classified it as of that topic. That way you can avoid drawing your own conclusion which would be original research. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 22:39, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the advice, it will help Solaire the knight (talk) 04:48, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I still added the category, since the plot practically leaves no other possibilities, and the romantic line is already completely based on their engagement and the incestuous experiences of his sister. As for positioning, here MAL and publishing house openly advertises the release of the licensed manga in the line of works about "forbidden love". Solaire the knight (talk) 23:50, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Please don't use MAL as a source. Do you have other reviews from RS'es or the publishing house that describes the forbidden love? AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 18:40, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * "Miyuki loves her brother waaay too much, but in a way that's cute and funny—and occasionally touching—rather than creepy... The Tatsuya/Miyuki relationship seems a little too close to be just a normal brother/sister connection, too; several scenes raise red flags, including the fact that they are apparently rooming with each other at the school"
 * That the category was removed by indicates the theme is not as WP:BLUE as with Sword Art Online and virtual reality. Hence the call for RSes. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 19:19, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * So "is not as" that "brother and sister look like lovers, and then are going to get married" is the only thing that most people know about this series "Even now, that feeling hasn’t changed. Even though I know that Onii- sama is my real brother, I want Onii-sama to treasure me as a woman! I want to be Onii-sama’ s bride! When I said I had given up, suddenly I didn’t want to give up!....But, Onii-sama is normal after all. . . You have a normal sense of moral too. . . You wouldn’t carry a romantic feelings for your own sister right. You must have been disgusted by such an abnormal sister like me. . Onii-sama, is it ok for me to hope? Not for ‘now’ but for ‘sometime’. For Onii-sama to be able to see me as ‘Miyuki’, and not your sister."
 * Where are the secondary sources. You need stuff like this review of Honor Student at Magic High School "Miyuki seems blissfully unaware that their relationship really shouldn't go where she wants it to (she makes a comment about how they're just brother and sister for now even as she mentions several times that they are blood related), and you could be forgiven for assuming that these first two chapters are simply fluffy incest fanservice. "   or this review where the author is unclear "That said, the relationship between he and Miyuki remains something of a sticking point, mostly because Satou doesn't seem to know how he wants to handle it. I think he's trying to make it titillating without being actually dangerous, but his constant backtracking in the language gives it less an air of “will they/won't they” and more the sound of an author who couldn't make up his mind. "  or this review on Fandom Post " This is a major problem I have with the show: it’s both blatantly pandering to the whole incest fetish that obviously must have some sick fandom among the otaku in Japan, while at the same time trying to distance itself from it by constantly saying out open “we’re only joking!” They think they’re having their cake and eating it too. Maybe, but it’s a cake made of excrement."  AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 19:41, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * All true, Sato is very love to stretch time and uses ambiguity in the most important moments. At the same time, does this exclude the fact that the theme of incest is the one of the main themes of this work? Is it not enough that the whole romantic line in anime and light novel is built on the incestuous experiences of Miyuki? The links that you gave just confirms my point of view, not to mention that you completely ignored her confession to her brother and their engagement, to which I have already indicated above in a direct quote. Solaire the knight (talk) 19:48, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Or do you want to say that I need secondary sources that confirm that confessing to own brother in love or trying to love own sister as a woman is incest? Is this some humor? Solaire the knight (talk) 20:05, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * If it's plot point you should add them to the plot. But right now I don't see any of that in the plot, not even the marriage part. It's listed in the description for the girl. None of the "they were genetically modified so they won't have the problems associated with incest" is present in the article with any references. If you're wanting to add a Themes section, you need to back it up with more sources, preferably statements by the author showing that he meant, or by anime critics who have pieced it together. Our piecing it together is WP:SYNTH or WP:OR. According to the references I presented, the reviewers are also confused as to the author's presentation of the relationship, like the Fandom Post reviewer above who said that the author teases it, but then pulls back and does a "just kidding". Most of the reviewers are not conclusively calling it an incest-themed series. See When to cite WP:CATDEF says the reliable sources must commonly and consistently define it as such. If the plot is written up to include it then maybe you can use WP:BLUE  AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 22:37, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * No one? Have you ever read the article? This is said twice, just do not forget to say thank you to the author of this article, who kindly removed any attempts to clarify the plot and make it less generalized: "Genetically different from Tatsuya, despite being born from the same parents. Miyuki professes her love to him following their engagement under Maya's orders....Miyuki is appointed as the next head, and the origins of Tatsuya and Miyuki's birth is revealed. Since they are genetically different from each other, Maya announces Tatsuya is to become Miyuki's husband."
 * It's especially strange to hear about this when I directly quoted their monologue to you: "Even now, that feeling hasn’t changed. Even though I know that Onii- sama is my real brother, I want Onii-sama to treasure me as a woman! I want to be Onii-sama’ s bride! When I said I had given up, suddenly I didn’t want to give up!....But, Onii-sama is normal after all. . . You have a normal sense of moral too. . . You wouldn’t carry a romantic feelings for your own sister right. You must have been disgusted by such an abnormal sister like me. . Onii-sama, is it ok for me to hope? Not for ‘now’ but for ‘sometime’. For Onii-sama to be able to see me as ‘Miyuki’, and not your sister."


 * You forget that your reviews cover 1-2 volumes in LN and 7 in anime, while the engagement and confession appeared from the 16th. This is the first. Secondly, links you cited by yourself, constantly refer to a bunch of incest's fanservice as a romantic line. His sister is the only love interest in the series, so how do you think, on the relationship of what type indicates "romance" in the genres? And thirdly, the very requirement of secondary sources that the connection between a brother and sister is an incest, is a good bringing to the absurd. Of course, I will not make a war of revisions or accuse you of willful violation of the rules, but presently I see no reason to remove the category, except to bringing to absurdity and silly negation of the text given in your own links. Solaire the knight (talk) 06:32, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Therefore, for the moment, I just stop discussion, because I'm not going to waste my nerves, proving the obvious to people. Let's wait and see what will happen after the release of the film and the possible second season. Perhaps, then at last there will be secondary sources that will show you that the sky is blue and by this the author meant precisely that the sky is blue. Solaire the knight (talk) 06:56, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Don't call for me Solaire, I don't care about the categories so do as you will. On the other hand your addition of "Being his real sister" doesn't help in this case, and is unclear and precise. Instead it was replaced with despite being born from the same parents by some other editor which was much better than your addition, which you still argued that you wanted to add into the article. As for the adoption sentence, that's a mouthful and excessive details are not needed in a plot summary. It also doesn't help your argument here. DragonZero ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 07:37, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, you can always help with grammar, and not remove editing, making the description of the story complicated and confusing, unintentionally causing long and tedious controversy on the discussion page. In the end, after removing you "mouthful and excessive details", I as fool have to prove the obvious and justify myself to people who can not even read the quotation I cited. Moreover, the author of that supplement, told you the same thing as I did, that the description of the plot is misleading about their real connection. I'm not going to lead a holy war and roll back the edits, I just want to say to what silly situation I got partly because of you. Solaire the knight (talk) 08:11, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
 * So I will summarize my thoughts with this question: What can you put into the plot section, development/production section, themes section, and/or reception section that will convince the reader that the THEME of the light novels and franchise is about incest? Is there some kind of statement like: "Throughout the light novels, Tatsuya struggles with defining what kind of relationship he has with his sister, who is obsessed with calling him his girlfriend and wants to marry him"?    AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 14:31, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The main problem is that in anime all this was very much simplified to an easy fanervice, and localized volumes cover even less. Therefore, it is quite possible that summing up the results and themes of the whole work exists only in japanese. If we generalize, then in fact the main intrigue of this work is whether the main character will have the ability to love and whether he will then respond to the feelings of his sister. But Tatsuya is not capable of experiencing romantic feelings. Therefore, the whole romantic line is built on incestuous ship tease between him and his sister, whose regular internal monologues always boil down to "I want to become my brother's wife and for this I am ready to fulfill any of his wishes". Thus, in the romantic line of Mahouka there is simply nothing more meaningful than her experiences of feelings for her own brother. That's what I want to say. The problem is that despite the fact that all sources speak directly about this (even yours), the category is removed, and you require new sources from me. I'm just afraid of writing something, as it can be immediately deleted with the requirement of sources for every little thing. Solaire the knight (talk) 15:53, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
 * At the same time, I thought about adding a paragraph about it to the section with reviews. The main thing is that in every review on this anime there is a section about how the author abuses this in depicting the romantic line between Shiba siblings. Solaire the knight (talk) 16:05, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
 * For example, something in this style. I have hidden the text so that it can be discussed calmly. I correctly understand that I will be able to return the category if the section will sufficiently well cover the opinion of reviewers about this? Solaire the knight (talk) 16:39, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The reception paragraph is helpful, but again I ask, is that the predominant theme of the series? Is it about the romance and dealing with that particular relationship? It's the same issue we have been seeing on Yuri on Ice. The producers tease a same-sex relationship and the critics clearly pick up on that, but the producers do not officially classify the anime as shonen-ai or yaoi or LGBT, which if they did, would make it category defining. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 17:44, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I understand perfectly what you mean. In this case, incest is certainly not a genre (and I do not see that all works in this category have incest was the main theme of the plot. For example like here, when the work was known for this, only because of one short scene of incest), but as an anime to the genre of romance, this is its main component. So yes, if we are talking about the romantic part of the story, then their "strange" feelings for each other is the main theme of the plot. If to speak at all, then more important than this topic, only the theme of the struggle of Tatsuya with his chains. But even in this matter Miyuki and their engagement are part of this "chains". Solaire the knight (talk) 18:18, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I didn't remove anything significant. All the facts have been laid bare but instead you want the article to scream this is real incest. It's been stated they're 'from' the same parents, but genetically different. That's the fact. I am also knowledgeable about the series, and per WP:CATDEF, Incest is not the defining characteristic of the series. Like Angus' comment on Yuri on Ice but the producers do not officially classify the anime as shonen-ai or yaoi or LGBT, DragonZero  ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 19:49, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh, so that means a real conflict of interest, that's fine. It means that it does not matter what and how I will add, it will be deleted immediately, as you consider the article your property. Just great. Not care that in every review they talk about incest, and there is no separate incest genre. It does not matter, that the story itself confirms that they are a real brother and sister, and they are forced to hide it. It does not matter that, as in the case of Minoru, history considers genetically modified people to be real blood members of the family. If the owner does not want this to be mentioned, then it will be deleted from the article in any form, even if it is a short paragraph about the opinion of reviewers. Solaire the knight (talk) 20:09, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Should I now remove any mention of incest from Flowers in the Attic? After all, following your logic, this category and section are completely illegal there, because incest is neither a genre of these films and books, nor is it the main theme. And following your logic, should we remove the LGBT categories from Yuri on Ice? You yourself confessed to me, that this is neither the main theme, nor the official genre. Let's remove this category altogether from all articles about which creators do not shout "this incest !! 1" and do not try to write it into the graph genre, although this genre has never existed. Either we delete all this, guided by your logic, or you technically admit in the conflict of interests and playing with the rules. Solaire the knight (talk) 20:17, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Again by definition of defining. I can explain the Yuri on Ice one because reviews defined the whole anime as LGBT. Reviews that you linked to only criticized the implication of incest here and there. Other users have noted the third party sources to advance your argument. I've already explained why real was replaced with whatever the other user added and why the adoption was removed from the volume summary; as someone who has written loads of summaries for various articles, my style has been consistent throughout on what to remove and keep 1. You consider my edits to be COI. Well you can report me to the ANI then. This is my last comment for this. DragonZero ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 20:48, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I guessed that you would ignore my question about the category in other articles. Q.E.D. But why then do you once again ignore that they are forced to hide their origins by telling them that they are cousins? Why do you ignore that in their monologue after the engagement, they say 10 times "we are a real brother and sister"? Maybe you're just trying to remove any mention of this from the article, in passing trying to give their own original study "since their genes are different, it does not matter that they are still a brother and sister"? I can not imagine your good intentions when you delete even an innocent section about incest fanservice in the series. If you are "knowledgeable about the series," then you should have been perfectly aware of the fact that the plot and the characters still consider themselves as real siblings. But, you try in any way to remove the slightest mention of the incestuousness of their relationship. It is precisely pushing your opinion in any way by manipulating rules Solaire the knight (talk) 21:03, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Flowers in the Attic lists several instances of how it was banned from libraries for the incest topic. AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 20:52, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
 * And I added a section where reviewers complain about incest of fanservice in anime. I added an official advertisement, which explicitly states that this is a work about forbidden love. You yourself quoted references that the relationship in this work is on the verge. Why was it deleted with the comment "not the main topic"? Despite the ban, incest becomes the main theme only in the next books of the series, but not in this one. So that is not the main theme of this work, why then it is not deleted? These are double standards. Solaire the knight (talk) 21:03, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

It may be possible that the spinoff light novel Honor Student at Magic High School could be categorized as such since Rebecca Silverman's review with the "you could be forgiven for assuming that these first two chapters are simply fluffy incest fanservice." is from there  and that the Hachette Book publisher summary says "The life of an honor student comes with a lot of expectations...and unexpected hidden feelings?!" However, it's just the spin-off as I don't see similar descriptions for the main series. AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 19:13, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Also, please do not quote Wikia as a reference. This isn't helping things. Please stick with reliable sources. AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 20:00, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
 * You forget that this spin off contains the same storyline, changing only the main character. In some cases, it even complements the main plot. Solaire the knight (talk) 04:54, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Translation question
I note that the literal translation from Japanese is "The Poor Performing Student...".

Yet the anglicized title "The Irregular..." is used. I never understood what was meant by "irregular" -- I just sorta assumed it mean some sort of misfit, troublemaker or "punk" .. in the 50's maybe 'greasers' (as in the movie 'Grease'). So I didn't see how it applied to the male protagonist. I.e. I don't see "irregular" as being an english (at least not US english) translation of "poor performing student". Though it sounds a bit clinical, "underachiever" seems a much closer word, in meaning, to the Japanese title. The word "misfit" might sound less clinical, but seems less precise as it doesn't really say how they don't fit in. "Irregular" seems even less precise as a translation for 'poor performing student'.

Are these translations "fixed in stone", or can better translations be used? I would guess where an english version of the anime has been released, the "anglicized title used, is 'it'", but its downright frustrating to see some of the confusing and misleading translations that are used (not to mention "highly irregular". ;-)). Astara Athenea (talk)Athenae —Preceding undated comment added 02:01, 29 June 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if I understand what you're saying. I'm assuming you are saying the title should be something besides the Irregular at Magic High School should be used to be closer to the meaner of its Japanese title the Poor Performing.... The title the Irregular at... was written in English in the Japanese releases as well. By Wikipedia standards, we'd be using whatever the licensed name is in English. Behold Case Closed. DragonZero  ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 02:52, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

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lowercase version of title
https://ibhuluimcom-a.akamaihd.net/ib.huluim.com/show/17811?region=US&size=952x536 shows The irregular at magic high school subtitle. This should be mentioned somewhere even though western distributors capitalize the subsequent words. 70.51.193.44 (talk) 16:42, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I would deny this under MoS trademark. Same reason all caps don't count as a stylization. The image you showed is nothing special, its done the same way on the light novel covers. D-Zero  ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 20:12, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

The Irregular at Magic High School
Hello, for the title "魔法科高校の劣等生" the word "科" can mean "department". https://ejje.weblio.jp/content/%E7%A7%91 --11 Tom (talk) 16:58, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

The Character Section seems way too detailed and unprofessional
I don't know enough about this show to feel qualified to decide what's essential information, but as it stands, this seems incredibly poorly done. There are few paragraph breaks and no structure to the information in the wall of text presented. Beyond that, the phrasing doesn't fit the academic tone of Wikipedia, especially the long and rambling bit about how beautiful Miyuki is and how much she and Tatsuya love each other. Someone more qualified needs to look into this. 217.147.185.76 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 03:34, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Gotta say this article has degraded since I stopped watching it. Did a lazy patch job. It looks like someone named the Fourth Progenitor was the main cause of this. D.Zero  ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 10:04, 28 December 2020 (UTC)