Talk:Turkish language/Archive 4

Word Order
One very important feature of Turkish language is missing from the article, which is the complete flexibility in word order in poetic or emotionally charged language. As the example in the article goes, one can use limited variations of "Hakan okula gitti" to stress different facts (stressing school or Hakan), but a mother who sent his son away to a boarding school might say "Hakanım gitti okula" (My Hakan went to school), "Gitti Hakan okula," "Okula gitti Hakan," "Gitti okula Hakan," or any other variation with perfectly acceptable grammar structure, often, but not necessarily stressing different aspects of the emotion (that he is gone, that he is gone, that he is gone to school, that he is gone to school, to school he is gone, etc.). Okans (talk) 20:26, 1 March 2010 (UTC)okans

Edit request from Horzel, 18 May 2010
and by immigrant communities in Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Scandinavia, Switzerland, Holland, Slovakia, Hungary, Poland , United Kingdom, United States and Canada

To:

and by immigrant communities in Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Scandinavia, Switzerland, Slovakia, Hungary, Poland, United Kingdom, United States and Canada

Somehow the square brackets are in the wrong place, I left out Holland, since it is a synonym for the Netherlands, which is mentioned already.

Thank you, Eric Horzel (talk) 20:08, 18 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done. Tim Pierce (talk) 20:38, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Two remarks

 * In History section it seems an earlier reference to Turkish had been deleted. But the next sentence had been left untouched: ...Orkhon inscriptions... between 732 and 735, constitute another important early record.... If there is no previous reference, how can Orkhun inscriptions be called another early record ?
 * The subsection verbs certainly deserves more attention. The most powerful tool of Turkish is the number of tenses. In the article only the 9 simple tenses have been shown. But most of them can have 3 more time forms (Bileşik zaman) making the number of tenses 29. Since most of these can also take the so called combined forms (Bileşik fiil) the number of tenses may exceed 100. At least the names of these cases should have been mentioned.  Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 10:50, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Please add Iran, to the list of countries speaking Turkish as well. 35 000 000 Turkish living there — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.59.248.93 (talk) 03:11, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Cooperation council of Turkıc speakimg states  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.140.225.59 (talk) 07:58, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

French vocabulary
How is there so much???Domsta333 (talk) 01:35, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
 * What's your problem? Do you think
 * that Turkish contains too many French loan words? An encyclopedia should report the facts as they are, not as anyone wishes them to be.
 * that the article cites too many French loan words? French is the second largest source of loan words in Turkish. In the article I see
 * "fırka has been replaced by the French loanword parti"
 * "Many loanwords from Arabic and French, however, take front-vowel suffixes after final back vowels:" [three examples, all from Arabic AFAIK; here it would be good to add a French example!]
 * "The road sign in the photograph above illustrates several of these features: ... a loanword also violating vowel harmony: viyadük ("viaduct" < French viaduc)"
 * [a footnote to ne oldum delisi, glossed as literally "what-have-I-become!":] "Note the similarity with the French phrase un m'as-tu-vu "a have-you-seen-me?", ie a vain and pretentious person."
 * All of these are appropriate. If you have a problem, state it clearly and give your reasons. --Thnidu (talk) 21:09, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

ğ = [ɰ], not [ɣ]
If Turkish phonology has a velar approximant consonant, represented by the letter ğ, why is the character for the velar fricative  is used instead? As it is apparent here WP:IPA for Turkish, that velar fricative is Azerbaijani only. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 15:33, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

v = [β] ?
In the Sample section, I see the character (Voiced bilabial fricative) is used for the letter v, which should be pronounced as  (Voiced labiodental fricative) as noted at WP:IPA for Turkish. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 15:50, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from F.Mehmet (talk) 11:46, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
Hello, could we add Old Anatolian Turkish subtitle to the "Turkish language" section of this article. Thanks and Greetings. -F.Mehmet (talk) 11:46, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

wrong words in Turkish Name section
"Medine" isn't mean city (I have never heard this); city is in Turkish "Kent" or "Şehir"... And "nur" isn't light; light is "Işık" (nur is Arabic borrowing, in Turkish this mean "Holy light".. and we dont use "Cihan", World is "Dünya" (or Earth:yer, yeryüzü).. and "Volcano" is "Yanardağ"... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Emyr93 (talk • contribs) 17:01, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The names in the section "Turkish Name" are not grammatical name (= noun); are "personal name" :-) --Kmoksy (talk) 17:11, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Dimensionality of vowel system
"The Turkish vowel system can be considered as being two-dimensional, where vowels are characterised by two features: front and back and rounded and unrounded" What about vowel height?--ZealousGnome (talk) 01:48, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 18.111.43.121, 13 September 2011
Please add Iran to the list of countries where Turkish is spoken. The Azari minority, including millions of people residing in the north western areas of Iran, speak Turkish as a native language.

18.111.43.121 (talk) 19:17, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Don't they speak a Turkic language, but necessarily Turkish? I would think they speak mainly Azerbaijani. — Bility (talk) 17:08, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

not the offical language of cyprus.
turkish is not the offical language of cyprus but rather the turkish republic of cyprus. and even then turkish cypriot should be added also — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.9.108.254 (talk) 22:59, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes it is. Muslim lo Juheu (talk) 17:28, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Immigrants?
"Turkish is also spoken by several million people of immigrant origin in Western Europe, particularly in Germany"

These people are in their third or fourth generation and are still being called "immigrants" ? I wonder what that makes most of the USA's population...I dont see them being labelled "immigrants"! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zasikli (talk • contribs) 05:47, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

it says 'immigrant origin', which would be correct.

stress in personal names
We have an anon. IP who is placing or moving stress to final syllable in many personal names, such as Roxelana, Şevval Sam, Selma Ergeç, and Tuba Büyüküstün, as well as adding vowel length not reflected in the orthography. Is this correct? I thought (ante)penultimate stress was pretty much the norm for Turkish personal names. (The user generally seems to know what they're doing, but has made elementary errors in English transcription.) — kwami (talk) 20:52, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Additional sounds?
I spent some time in Turkey, and I noticed one characteristic of the language not reflected in this article: before the letters r and l, an e is pronounced as [æ] in most cases. e.g. elma [ælma] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.71.228.214 (talk) 15:39, 26 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Covered at Turkish phonology. — kwami (talk) 20:54, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Üçgen
I edited the source of "gen" to bring it into line with Geoffrey Lewis Jarring lecture series piece: http://www.turkishlanguage.co.uk/jarring.htm. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iammaggieryan (talk • contribs) 14:22, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

French vocabulary
How is there so much???Domsta333 (talk) 01:36, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

We were speaking Turkish before French was born — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.59.248.93 (talk) 03:14, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Number of native Turkish speakers
The article has four different numbers for this: Which number is correct? -- Neil N   talk to me  01:38, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) 83 million (lede)
 * 2) 51 million (infobox)
 * 3) 93 million (infobox)
 * 4) 77 million (Geographic distribution)


 * As with English, French, or most other languages, no-one knows. — kwami (talk) 01:47, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Can we use one number? It looks kind of schizophrenic when the article has different sections 42 million people apart. -- Neil N   talk to me  01:50, 15 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, we should choose a best RS. But the two numbers in the box are native & total, and so do not disagree. — kwami (talk) 02:08, 15 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I can't find support for any of those figures. Some of them appear to have been falsified. One ref says 70M, though it is not clear if this means native speakers. — kwami (talk) 02:18, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I know, I went through the mega-long PDF and couldn't find anything. -- Neil N   talk to me  02:20, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * How about using this for number of native speakers? -- Neil N   talk to me  02:25, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Dated and unreliable. (Of course, we don't know where Syracuse got their numbers either.) — kwami (talk) 02:30, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * i see from WP:RSN that there's some controversy with using Ethnologue even though it's widely cited. Syracuse doesn't specify 70 million native speakers. Can we take "native" out? -- Neil N   talk to me  02:37, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Ethnologue is completely unreliable. What we could do is track down their sources and cite them directly. But the Turkish number is a quarter of a century old, and the rest are from different dates or (mostly) undated.
 * Given that the # of native speakers is in the 70M range, I suspect that Syracuse meant native speakers. But we can say "unknown" in the box, if you like. — kwami (talk) 03:07, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

The population of Turkey is 74 mil, right? 18% or 13+ million are Kurds, right? So that equals 61 mil. There are a few million native speakers overseas, right? So how on earth could that add up to 70 million??? Saint-Michel-de-Montaigne (talk) 21:15, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * See WP:SYNTH. I'm not disagreeing with you but you have provided no source for 51 million either. -- Neil N   talk to me  21:18, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Turkish-speaking countries, according to the number of people : Turkey mother tongue 61,000,000, mix and second language 14,000,000 ,Iraq 2,000,000 , second language 500,000 , Syria mother tongue 1,500,000 , second language 500,000 ,TRNC mother tongue 290,000 ,Bulgaria mother tongue 766,000 , Greece mother tongue 150-200,000 , Romania mother tongue 75,000 ,Macedonia mother tongue 80,000 ,Kosovo-bosnia-albania-georgia mother tongue 100,000 The european union Mother tongue ( Turkish diaspora) Turkish citizens 5,150,000 ,settled mother-second  language  3,000,000 , World Turkish diaspora ( Usa-Russia-Saudi arabia-New zeeland and) mother tongue 2,000,000 ,seconda language 500,000

The number of Turkish-speaking world : mother tongue 75,000,000 ,mix-second language 18,500,000 : total 93,500,000 person

Edit request on 26 July 2012
Burgaria should be Bulgaria in the third line

Rizzoli (talk) 13:03, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

✅ Floating Boat   A boat that can float!  14:18, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Population Source Change Request
The source given for the speaking population (source [3] in 30 September 2012) is not a credible source. This information must be taken from an official source. Peagasus (talk) 20:48, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

"Yumuşak" or "soft" g (ğ - Ğ)
Please see explanation in TP:Turkic Languages. --E4024 (talk) 16:10, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Time for FARC?
I was surprised to see that this is an FA. There's a honking layout error in the first section (we don't squeeze text like that) and some uncited bits throughout. Plus I don't see the need for that sample at the end (compare with Swedish language, which still seems to deserve featured status).

Promotion was back in May 2007—over five and a half years ago. It has never been subject to review, and it also seems that the three editors who shepherded it to the gold star have all since left the project.

Are there any knowledgeable editors reading this who can get it back up to snuff? I will take it to FARC in a week or so and see what they think. Daniel Case (talk) 07:50, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Turkish dialects
Up to 4th of Feb., this article used to have a section on dialects. At the moment it has none. Because User:Maunus moved the section to recently created article Turkish dialects by copy and paste method. I don't think it is fair to move a section without a serious discussion. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 21:09, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * It still has a section on dialects - what I moved was only the list of specific locations which I consider to be both a problem because it goes against the MOS on embedded lists with a huge list that breaks the article flow, and because it didn't give any real information. There is no requirement to discuss before removing but anyone can reinsert it if they disagree with my decision.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 21:27, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * This matter was mentioned in a discussion within the ongoing FARC review, though. There are a few issues that still need to be addressed, and if you have the time, you are most welcome to do so. G Purevdorj (talk) 09:53, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 5 April 2013
hello

i would like to edit the tirkish language since i would want to change some pieces. it would be nice for you to allow me

2.29.15.160 (talk) 14:15, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: It is not possible for individual users to be granted permission to edit a semi-protected article. You can do one of the following:
 * You will be able to edit this article without restriction four days after account registration if you make at least 10 constructive edits to other articles.
 * You can request the article be unprotected at this page. To do this, you need to provide a valid rationale that refutes the original reason for protection.
 * You can provide a specific request to edit the article in "change X to Y" format on this talk page and an editor who is not blocked from editing the article will determine if the requested edit is appropriate. &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 15:08, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * You can provide a specific request to edit the article in "change X to Y" format on this talk page and an editor who is not blocked from editing the article will determine if the requested edit is appropriate. &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 15:08, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Istanbul Turkish
Istanbul Turkish is the Received Pronunciation of Turkish, not an alternative name.--Abuk SABUK (talk) 20:35, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Native to ... [info box]
Please erase the entry that the Turkish language is "native to" Germany, this is incorrect. Their a quite many Turkish speakers in Germany due to Turkish immigrants and their descendants in the recent decades. But Turkish is not "native to" Germany, was and is not an official or recognized minority language in Germany, "native to" would mean that. Thank you! --78.48.159.94 (talk) 13:56, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

About the map
Iğdır has Azeri majority who speaks Turkish so map is clearly wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.171.128.154 (talk) 16:29, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Edit request: Turkish native language of Cyprus
The bar on the right lists Turkish as a native language of Northern Cyprus rather than Cyprus, as if suggesting that all Turkish speakers on the island come from the north and none are native to the rest of the island. I think this should be changed to say Cyprus (as in, the island) with no references to the Republic of Cyprus or the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. 69.196.173.58 (talk) 07:08, 6 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Especially as few countries recognize N Cyprus. But it's not native to Germany or Iraq.  We might want to add Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan, but I'm not familiar with the situation there.  — kwami (talk) 18:57, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

83 million is a not right?
Turkish is spoken by many people more that 83 million. Just Turkey's population is 74 million and there many place wherein people are turks like Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and they offical language is Turkish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.182.66.167 (talk) 06:52, 5 April 2012 (UTC)


 * But it's not the native language of everyone in Turkey, and not even close in Uzbekistan – assuming you want to lump Uzbek under 'Turkish' in the first place, which we don't do. — kwami (talk) 20:48, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Uzbek is a Turkic dialect like Turkish. There are some consonant/vowels changes between them and some words are different. If you know Ottoman Turkish words well, you may easily understand Uzbek language more than 90%.--88.251.205.21 (talk) 06:06, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Turkish language Turkey % 85 ,Bulgaria % 8.9 Turks-Turkish language % 9.6 [Population by mother tongue according to the 2001 census: ],Iraqi Turkmens % 9, Syrian Turks % 5-7 ,European Union Turkish Citizens 70-83 million,Turkish people

The number of Turkish-speaking people in the world are 75-85 million people speaking the native language and a second language Turkish

Irregular orthography
So, why is "name" spelled ad instead of how it is pronounced, at? Is it to distinguish it from at "horse"? If so, why are other words spelled as they are pronounced despite being ambiguous that way? Also, despite our claim that this was a characteristic of loans, we have loans such as ağb "dung" which are spelled with voiced C's. — kwami (talk) 19:40, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Genitive in Turkish

 * In Nouns section Genitive case is mentioned however in Turkish there exists no genitive case. The suffix -in is called ilgi eki in Turkish and it IS NOT a case.  mrt_tufekci (talk) 22:20, 5 May 2012 (UTC)


 * What is it? — kwami (talk) 20:26, 5 May 2012 (UTC)


 * As I said, its name in Turkish is ilgi eki or tamlama eki. It is the suffix of the first noun of a definite noun completion


 * kapı-n-ın zil-i - the door-bell - (the bell of the door)
 * Mehmet'-in araba-s-ı - Mehmet's car - (the car of Mehmet)
 * pencere-n-in perde-s-i - the window-curtain - (the curtain of the window)


 * This suffix gives the same meaning of genitive in other languages like greek, german, latin but in Turkish we don't have a genitive case. We have only 5 cases in Turkish and they are nominative, accusative, dative, locative, ablative.


 * In the web site you can find correct information about noun completion
 * http://www.turkishlanguage.co.uk/nouns.htm - mrt_tufekci (talk) 09:28, 6 May 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrt tufekci (talk • contribs)


 * a) What about predicate uses like "Egemenlik, kayıtsız şartsız Milletindir" or "bir milyon kimin?"
 * b) Reliable sources in English call it the "genitive case" (G.L. Lewis, Göksel) or "possessive definite suffix" (Thomas and Itzkowitz -- they also talk of the dative/locative/.,.. suffix, not case). --Macrakis (talk) 21:30, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Urdu
Urdu means Army in Turkish, the basis of Pakistan's national language is Turkish. Turkish is therefore official language in Pakistan too. http://www.dawn.com/news/676601/influence-of-turkish-on-urdu 2.31.72.196 (talk) 17:47, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

In Turkish that we are talking about, 'ordu' means army not 'urdu', what you're saying is Turkic, not Turkish. It differs. And is there an official source that proves 'Turkish is therefore official language in Pakistan too' ?KazekageTR (talk) 20:26, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 April 2014
need a better map... map information is not right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mdoyduk (talk • contribs) 05:02, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 April 2014
This article is in Turkish and it explains us that Turkish has 6 groups and there are 220 million speakers of it. http://www.esinti.biz/toplum/001.htm

And I want you to edit the number of the speakers of Turkish language. Even Turkey has 80 million people. Turkish has 80 million speakers as the first language.

78.162.88.28 (talk) 00:22, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

{{Not done)) - That does not appear to be a reliable source and contradicts both the source used in this article and the other standard source Ethnologue - Arjayay (talk) 15:16, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Edit request
Could we please add the use of "kendileri" as an example of the use of a plural form to indicate an enhanced respect level? Otherwise, it looks as if only second person pronouns can be made more formal, which is incorrect. Thanks. One other point, should we mention the use of a person's first name and an honorific, e.g. Mehmet Bey, Ayşe Hanım? In this, it is very different from English, where we say, Mister X etc.? Finally, there are also examples like, Kaptan Bey, Mudur Bey. A section on honorifics, perhaps?? TCDDFan (talk) 12:14, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 May 2014
106.215.239.97 (talk) 05:07, 29 May 2014 (UTC) If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ". Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to any article. - Arjayay (talk) 07:12, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not requested a change.

Semi-protected edit request on 6 June 2014
page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Türkçe

The first map/picture depicts "Areas where Turkish is the native language of the majority" and "Areas where Turkish is the native language of a minority". However, these areas are seriously incorrect, probably under political aspirations. Turkish language is the native language of "all" people living within the borders of Turkey, plus 90 % of the people living in Iraq's Mosul and Kerkuk provinces. Besides, it is the native language of a much larger community in Bulgaria, hence the mass exodus to Turkey in 1989. It is also native language to the significant community of Christian Turks (Gagauz) in Moldova. The previous discussion of 18% kurds is also unfounded and arbitrary (the kurdish party vote rate is a mere 6%). Please correct or at least remove this map.

78.174.18.116 (talk) 21:03, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Once you have reliable sources to back up your claims, please reopen this request with Please change X to Y formatting. Thank you. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (e • t • c) 21:15, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Can someone fix this?
There's a message under the Notes header that reads: "Cite error: A list-defined reference with group name "lower-alpha" is not used in the content (see the help page)." Could someone fix the problem that's causing this? --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 10:40, 8 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Ignore this message. I fixed it myself. :-P --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 10:54, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Missing Turks
Meskhetian Turks also speak Turkish. In their article one can find the population numbers of this unlucky people dispersed in the former Soviet Union. The infobox of this article seems to neglect them. --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 23:23, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I noted that too. I think maybe Meshketian turks are mentioned by another name, but I'll have to see whats going on.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 22:50, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

This map will be removed mate, there are lots of Turks abroad and they speak Turkish too. They have to be represented on that map either. elmasmelih ( used to be KazekageTR ) 22:56, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Generally we dont add minority populations abroad in the infobox map, since all the worlds major languages have expatriate populations. I think the map you are inserting would be better placed in the section on dialects.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 23:06, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Maunus, did you already see what is going on or you went vacations? --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 10:58, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * No, what is going on?User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 13:49, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I dunno; you said you were going to see what is going on. --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 15:03, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Ah, I added mention of the Meskehtians in the section on dialects.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 16:20, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Introduction
Hallo, I think that in the introduction Asia should be mentioned before Europe, since the sentence is related to the number of speakers, and the population of Asian turkey is almost seven times higher than that of European Turkey. The opinion that Europe should go first since modern Turkish is Istanbul Turkish is not correct here, since we sentence deals with number of speakers, and writing in this way one has the idea that the two groups are numerically equivalent: it is a case of Undue Weight. Last but not least, I am curious to know where Turkish is spoken by "Millions of people in south-eastern Europe, except eastern Thrace".Alex2006 (talk) 09:07, 19 July 2014 (UTC)


 * That's not undue weight. That's a false argument. There are arguably more Turkish-speakers in the European side than in the Asian side, since Eastern Turkey is mainly Kurdish-speaking anyway. Even then, it has nothing to do with undue weight since no indication was made that it's spoken more in Europe than in Asia. You can add those details in another section of the article. The introduction is meant to be brief anyway. Or you can find the figures and add them between parentheses. Furthermore, the language is spoken by millions more Turkish-speakers in other parts of Southeastern Europe, not just Turkish Thrace. Lastly, the language itself was developed in the European side. What on Earth is wrong with having it in alphabetical order? --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 09:14, 19 July 2014 (UTC)


 * No, there are many more Turkish speakers in Asia than in Europe, as you can see just adding up the numbers (and maybe you should do it). About Kurds, in Istanbul live about two to three millions of them, mainly on the European side, and many of them live in western europe, so your objection does not apply. Moreover, I did not add any details, but only reverted the order of the info, avoiding to give undue weight. Finally, I am still waiting that you tell me where are these "millions" of Turkish speakers in Southeastern Europe. I repeat again that the objection that the language was developed in Istanbul does not apply here, because the sentence deals with number of Turks. i hope that you are finally getting the point. Alex2006 (talk) 09:33, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

The thing is, there are 15-20 million Kurds, 50 million Turks and 5-10 million 'other' ethnicities (Georgian, Albanian, Bosnian etc.) in Turkey. In the Europe and in the European side of Turkey (Turkish Thrace) there are approx. 10-15 million people who speaks Turkish. But in the Asia and the Asian side of Turkey (Anatolia), the figure might be high as 60-65 million including L2 speaking Kurds and 'other' ethnicities. elmasmelih ( used to be KazekageTR ) 09:36, 19 July 2014 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict)Thanks for adding up the numbers! The fact is that the barycenter of the speakers lie in Asia, not in Europe, and a sentence dealing with the total number should take it into account. This has nothing to do with considering Turkish an European or Asiatic language, which is a quite different matter. Alex2006 (talk) 09:44, 19 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Alex, I want to know how exactly putting the term "Southeastern Europe" before the term "Western Asia" gave you the false indication that Southeastern Europe has more Turkish-speakers than Western Asia. That was placed in alphabetical order, primarily to avoid this silly argument in the first place. Secondly, no such indication was made regarding which geographic area had more speakers than the other; that is nothing but your false assumption. The introduction has to be brief anyway, but you are more than welcome to add the information regarding the speakers in the appropriate section or, as I suggested, you can add the figures between parentheses. And yes, there are millions more Turkish-speakers in Southeastern Europe than just in Turkish Thrace. There are indigenous Turkish-speakers in Albania, Bulgaria, Greece and Kosovo, to name a few. The language is also specifically known as Istanbul Turkish by virtue of the fact it was developed in Istanbul, not in Anatolia. I offered you suggestions for a compromise, which I think is better than having a silly edit war over this. What exactly is your problem with wording it in alphabetical order and what exactly makes you assume that this order gives a false impression of where Turkish is mostly spoken? --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 09:42, 19 July 2014 (UTC)


 * There is no edit war here, there is only a discussion. About the Turkish speakers in southeastern Europe they don`t reach one million. About the alphabetic order, there is no guideline in Wikipedia that suggest to use it, and this would be anyway the only place where it is used. Otherwise considering the languages which are spoken in Europe and the Americas, like Italian or French, we should write that they are spoken in America AND Europe, which would be crazy. Alex2006 (talk) 09:53, 19 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Well, there's no guideline in Wikipedia that says we should arrange the wording of a lede sentence in a language article according to the size of speakers or geographic area. The alphabetical order was added to avoid problems, not create them. Regarding the French language article, you'll notice that it has a huge section dedicated for geographic distribution, where it describes the extent to which the French language is spoken across Europe and other continents. In case of this article, the lede sentence briefly describes the geographic distribution of Turkish, and the following sections should expand on the subject. Also bear in mind that you're using one definition of Europe. Different sources have their own definitions of Europe, many of which include all of Turkey in Europe. So this isn't a black-and-white issue. Anyway, how about this: Turkish, also referred to as Istanbul Turkish, is the most widely spoken of the Turkic languages, with around 70.8 million native speakers across a small part of Southeastern Europe and a large part of Western Asia (i.e. the Balkans and Anatolia, respectively)? Please say it's okay. :-) --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 10:08, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * No, it is not. You see that you are refusing to get the point. We are talking about number of speakers, not about geographic distribution. Moreover, your sentence is wrong, since the geographic distribution in SW Europe is scattered. Bosnia, Albania, Bulgaria, Thrace and Romania are not "a small part of Southeastern Europe". Alex2006 (talk) 10:21, 19 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Then it's fine the way it is, as you have just admitted that it's spoken in a large part of Southeastern Europe that spans Romania, Bosnia and other countries. In that case, you were engaged in an edit war for no apparent reason. --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 10:23, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

No, it is not, since we are talking about number of speakers, not of territory where these speakers live. Alex2006 (talk) 10:25, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * You're draining me. Okay, how about this: Turkish, also referred to as Istanbul Turkish, is the most widely spoken of the Turkic languages, with around 70.8 million native speakers across parts of Southeastern Europe and Western Asia (i.e. the Balkans and Anatolia, respectively). It is spoken mostly in Anatolia. --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 10:30, 19 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Wait, that one sucked and clearly the following sentence says Turkish speakers are predominantly located in Turkey. This one's better: Turkish, also referred to as Istanbul Turkish, is the most widely spoken of the Turkic languages, with around 70.8 million native speakers across parts of Southeastern Europe (10-15 million speakers) and Western Asia (55-60 million speakers). --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 10:36, 19 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Let`s wait for the opinion of other users. We have already that of Elmasmelih. Alex2006 (talk) 10:43, 19 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Is it fine with you or not? --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 10:46, 19 July 2014 (UTC)


 * No: as you say, we should not inflate the introduction. Alex2006 (talk) 10:52, 19 July 2014 (UTC)


 * You've got to be kidding. That's no an inflation. Now I feel you're not really being genuine about reaching a consensus. Consider this conversation over. --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 10:54, 19 July 2014 (UTC)


 * OK, let`s wait for the opinion of other users. Alex2006 (talk) 10:55, 19 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I think the sensible thing to do would be to not mention Europe/Asia in the lead, especially in the first sentence definition, since that will undoubtedly attract editwarring in the future and compromise the possibility of having a stable article. Just note that it is primarily spoken in Turkey and by Turks abroad.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 16:25, 19 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I beg to differ. I think the geographic distribution of the language has to be described, even if briefly, in the lede paragraph, much like how the geographic location of any country is normally described in the lede paragraph of its respective article. Anyway, I think the current version is the most suitable and eliminates the numerical doubts that Alex mentioned earlier: Turkish (Türkçe), also referred to as Istanbul Turkish, is the most widely spoken of the Turkic languages, with around 10–15 million native speakers in Southeastern Europe and 55–60 million native speakers in Western Asia. --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 16:41, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It is quite easy to describe the distribution without using the terms Europe and Asia, just use specific locations.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 17:07, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * And there's also nothing wrong with a brief geographic description as this is an encyclopedia. --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 17:12, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Nothing wrong except that it will attract a perpetual influx of edit warriors which will keep the article from developing. For example even if the recent GA review had passed on the content the instability caused by your and other editor's editwarring over relative trivialities that could have been easily fixed with a more pragmatic approach would have meant the article couldnt be promoted.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 17:18, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Disruptive editors and edit warriors should not discourage us from making an article as encyclopedic and as descriptive as possible. And quite frankly, there were no disputes regarding the wording until today, and if compromises still cannot be reached with the other party, despite the efforts to make the other party accept an agreement, then the problem doesn't lie with us. --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 17:35, 19 July 2014 (UTC) Also consider the fact that a similar wording has existed in the Turkic languages article for many years without a single edit war regarding such word usage. So the problem isn't with the descriptive geographic content but, instead, the problem is with the disruption that is inevitably going to happen to an open-source encyclopedia, regardless of the events. Consider that there were no qualms regarding the wording of the lede sentence in this article until today. In any case, proposals have been made, and I think the wording now eliminates the objections that were raised in the argument of the other party. Have a good night. :-) --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 17:53, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Same Europe/Asia problem at Azerbaijani language, with "Eastern Europe" being given primacy because of Daghestan. At least with the recent allowance of parentheticals to explain what we mean, "Eastern Europe (the Caucasus) and Western Asia (northern Iran)", it's not misleading, but I still don't see the point. — kwami (talk) 17:38, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Lewis
I removed the reference to Lewis, since it does not support the claim that modern Turkish and Istanbul Turkish are synonims: Lewis affirms that modern turkish was built using the syntactic structure of Istanbul Turkish, but words and suffixes (fundamental in an agglutinative language like turkish) came from all Turkey. Alex2006 (talk) 09:22, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Since in a week none discussed this thread, I will remove the reference to Lewis in the lead. Moreover, since what he actually writes at pg.26 of his book is that the reformed Turkish Language cannot be identified with Istanbul Turkish, I think that this claim should be discussed too. Alex2006 (talk) 04:59, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 August 2014
Please add to the external links. It will add a link to the phrasebook for the language at Wikivoyage. Thanks.

130.88.141.34 (talk) 09:11, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done -- Edgars2007  (talk/contribs) 10:05, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Regular conjugation factually incorrect
Last paragraph under the Grammar/Verbs heading claims (with no citation) "All Turkish verbs are conjugated in the same way, except for the irregular and defective verb i- [...]". This is factually incorrect. How about "gitmek -> gidiyor" but "bitmek -> bitiyor"? Also, there are exceptions in geniş zaman (vaguely corresponds to simple present); the linking vowel may change depending on the verb: "gelmek -> gelir" but "delmek -> deler". I propose the deletion of that paragraph, listing the exceptions would be more appropriate for the Turkish grammar article. Cyco130 (talk) 15:43, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
 * What here is meant is that the suffixes which are used to conjugate the verbs are always the same (of course, considering also the laws of vowel harmony) not the changes in their root. And also these have almost no exception (there are only four verbs which change their root from -t to -d, like gitmek). you have to compare this regularity (which is ackwnoledged in each turkish grammar) to the verbal chaos of many languages, like French or Italian. Alex2006 (talk) 07:22, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I do understand that Turkish conjugation is more regular than many other languages and it's a valuable information to provide. But there are nevertheless irregularities. Apart from "gitmek, etmek, tatmak, gütmek" there are some 15-20 verbs that take -i-(ı/i/u/ü) as opposed to -e- (or -a-) as a linking vowel for Geniş Zaman (gelir but deler, durur but kurar, and even yener (wins) as opposed to yenir (is eaten) etc.). "demek" and "yemek" are also somewhat irregular (diyecek instead of expected regular *deyecek etc.). Can't we at least reword it by saying something like "there are only few irregularities"? Because it is simply wrong to say that they're all conjugated the same way. They are not, as I tried to demonstrate with examples. Cyco130 (talk) 09:45, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree with you that the sentence should be rephrased, but I still think that the emphasis should still be placed on the regularity of the verb conjugation. Maybe we should write something like: "The conjugation of Turkish verbs is based on very solid laws, which have very few exceptions. (One of) The most notable(s) among them is/are given by [...] ". What do you think about it? Alex2006 (talk) 10:05, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I have no objection to emphasizing the regularity. But do we need to list exceptions in this article? Can't we just mention that they exist and name one example (imek, which is already there) and leave less significant exceptions to the Turkish grammar article. Something like:

Almost all Turkish verbs are conjugated in the same way, most notable exception being the irregular and defective verb i-, the Turkish copula (corresponding to English to be), [...] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cyco130 (talk • contribs) 10:23, 4 November 2014 (UTC)


 * I agree, let's write so. Bye Alex2006 (talk) 10:34, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 November 2014
46.1.58.81 (talk) 16:59, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Copypaste of entire article removed As it clearly states in the instructions to submit an edit request:- "Please don't copy the entire article into the request. Only copy the part you're changing. If you copy the entire article into the request, you'll break navigation on the talk page, and another editor may remove your entire request." This is not a "spot the difference competition" If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ". Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 17:08, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 February 2016
The letter most commonly used in Turkish is A and the least used letter is J.





— Preceding unsigned comment added by Johncasey (talk • contribs) 21:26, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EvergreenFir (talk • contribs) 00:36, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Turkish language. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20070315154048/http://www.uwm.edu:80/~vaux/hamshen.pdf to http://www.uwm.edu/~vaux/hamshen.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070301064559/http://www.tdk.gov.tr/TR/BelgeGoster.aspx?F6E10F8892433CFFAAF6AA849816B2EF1A46C5FBFA979D0C to http://www.tdk.gov.tr/TR/BelgeGoster.aspx?F6E10F8892433CFFAAF6AA849816B2EF1A46C5FBFA979D0C

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Cheers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cyberbot II (talk • contribs) 14:43, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

please add this to the list
unfortunately some countries where majority speak Turkish were left off, 35 000 000 turks in Iran and azerbijan please add this to the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.174.107.172 (talk • contribs) 01:49, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

FYROM ?
Why calling FYROM as Macedonia? Macedonia is not a country nowadays, is an area. Could we change the template as FYROM, the official name of this country? -- Konstantinos13 Macedonia is greek 20:11, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
 * why calling greece a country populated mostly by slavs, vlachs and albanians, and less by turks, ponts and muhajirs, and has nothing to do, genetically or culturally with greeks (except the language, which can be thought by anyone)?89.205.59.148 (talk) 21:14, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Featured Article, Cyprus
I notice there's something weird going on in this article regarding Cyprus. A certain back and forth that we can do without. First, I deleted about 15 citations from the infobox, because it was cluttered. I used the Swedish language article as a model, since that is a FA language article. I did not see any reason to cite individually that Turkish was a minority language in each of the listed countries. I will do this with WP:RS in the main body, it screws up the numbering to have 17 citations in the infobox.

I also deleted the snide parenthetical comment that Northern Cyprus was "recognized by Turkey only." Since we have a NY Times article that Cyprus has asked the EU to recognize Turkish as an official EU language, it seems clear that the country of Cyprus and world have moved beyond puerile displays of chauvinism.

I WOULD ASK that if the treatment of the Cyprus issue in the article represents a problem for anyone, that they please respond here on the Talk page so we can resolve it without disrupting the stability of the article, since it interferes with my cleaning up the citations (which are a mess) thank you.

I am using R template for the citations btw, if that is a problem, let me know, because I had to delete the citations section to get it working. A lot of the sources need to be replaced by stronger sources.

Do not come here and remove cited information, and restore uncited and irrelevant information (that has nothing to do with Turkish language), without seeking consensus AFTER I specifically left a talk message about it. Do not edit war over your personal politics, Please do help clean up the citations in the article, thank you. Seraphimsystem (talk) 11:27, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

PRIZREN
The only source I could find confirming Turkish language in Prizren specifically was STORMFRONT, so I removed this as unreferenced, if anyone has a citation for it please add it using R template (without removing any other cited content) Seraphimsystem (talk) 14:20, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Vowel harmony
Hi. I am new to editing Wikipedia articles and am doing this as part of a linguistics course. I was looking at the GA review and saw that one of the areas highlighted was the section on vowel harmony. The reviewer Manaus found that the description required further clarification. I also noticed that there were some citations needed in this section. I am planning to use well-established Turkish grammars such as those by Lewis, Underhill and Kerslake to further clarify this section. Would appreciate any feedback you may have. Will also look at the description of verbal morphology- again based on feedback from Manaus. Umbereenbmirza (talk) 10:27, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Anatolian Turks
Before their adoption of the Turkish language, Anatolian Turks are believed to have originally spoken the Anatolian languages.

This is patent nonsense. Before the introduction of the Turkish language to Anatolia, there were no Anatolian Turks! It's like talking about the English before they adopted the English language, or talking about the French before they adopted the French language. There was no such thing as the English or the French in antiquity. These ethnicities only arose in the medieval period. The Anatolian Turks, likewise, arose as a mixture of the immigrant Seljuks with the native population of Anatolia, as a consequence of the Seljuk invasion of Anatolia.

What's worse, the Anatolian languages died out long before Turkish was introduced to the region. The pre-Seljuk population of Anatolia spoke Greek for the most part – and partly other languages such as Phrygian and Galatian until Late Antiquity, when the Anatolian languages were already extinct.

The sentence is nonsensical in a third way: The phrasing "are believed to" suggests that the time period talked about is prehistorical. But the history of Anatolia is well-known all the way since the Bronze Age. This is all History 101, readily available on Wikipedia itself! --Florian Blaschke (talk) 12:08, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

to be honest both galatian and phrygian were extinct in the 11th century. the only languages spoken in anatolia proper were greek and armenian (with armenian, syrica, kurdish and arab in the now so-called "eastern anatolia", which is not geographically part of anatolia). this idea that turks are somehow connected to ancient anatolians is just erdoganist nationalist propaganda with zero historical legitimacy and should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.77.164.238 (talk) 10:47, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Pronunciation of çalıştığı
The pronunciation of çalıştığı is given as tʃaɫɯʃtɯˈɣɯ. Is there a reason to include a ɣ here? I'd think that tʃaɫɯʃtɯˈɯ is closer to the mark. --Lambiam 20:02, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Sign language translations in Turkish broadcast TV
Which sign language are they in? Signed Turkish or Turkish SL? Erkin Alp Güney 07:24, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

'Native To'
Syria appears twice in the list, the first appearance does not have proper placement of commas either. 100.10.62.106 (talk) 04:46, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Turkish in Greece?
Turkish (Türkçe) is a language is spoken natively in Republic of Turkey, Cyprus, Bulgaria, Greece and other countries of the former Ottoman Empire, as well as by several million emigrants in Europe. Turkish is a Turkic language and in Altaic language family. Turkish has vowel harmony like Finnish and Hungarian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.50.31.211 (talk) 04:38, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Altaic is now a death theory.

First of all, i live in Greece 6 six years (i'm not Greek) and i have travelled everywhere in the country. Nowhere i have heard people speaking Turkish, apart from a minority in Komotini and Rhodes. So, why is the whole country colored? Also, the reference which supposedly indicate that the Turkish language is a minority in Greece isn't work. I suggest to find a reliable source for that information or to delete the country of the list and the map. Also, on map of Greek language the islands of Imbros and Tenedos aren't colored. Why? There is an minority of Greek language there. Sorry, but are you sure for neutrality of Wikipedia?

Firstly thank you for the heads-up about the dead link. And secondly there is a Turkish minority in northern Greece and their rights are protected by treaty of lausanne. And to satisfy a European Union minority related treaty, Greek govt recognized Turkish in Turkish minority cities. But only in those cities I believe. I will found a working link for this. Cheers. kazekagetr 21:52, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The country is colored in because the map is of countries. If we only colored in where Turkish is spoken, then we would need to remove the coloring from much of Turkey.  — kwami (talk) 22:40, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

From much of Turkey? Nearly everyone uses Turkish as their mother tongue including Kurdish people. Ethnicity=/=Linguistics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.171.175.16 (talk) 17:09, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

In Greece Turkish is not recognised as a minority language. Xylo kai Gyali (talk) 19:26, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Pronunciation of Türkçe
The Turkish word for the Turkish language is Türkçe, as given in the second cell of the infobox of Turkish language. The next cell gives its pronunciation in IPA and a link to a sound file,



That file's Description is
 * Audio recording of "Turkish" (Türkçe, IPA: [tyɾktʃe]) in Turkish. Recorded and uploaded by Atilim Gunes Baydin (native speaker).

Note the difference: the letter k pronounced in the infobox as the unvoiced palatal stop [c], and in the file description as the unvoiced velar stop [k]. ("[c]" here is the IPA symbol, not the Turkish letter.) The difference, probably due to palatalization of /k/ before the palatal affricate /tʃ/, may be insignificant or may not be. I don't know enough about Turkish to tell; we need an expert here. --Thnidu (talk) 01:41, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 July 2019
Remove this from the standard forms TRT Turkish as I am pretty sure TRT cannot be a form of Turkish as TRT cannot dictate the language form as they are a company also known a Turkish Radio and Television Corporation and is likely not spoken outside of the company anyways 64.222.180.90 (talk) 18:44, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done – Thjarkur (talk) 21:16, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Organizations
Should we add organizations to the infobox where are the language in an official status, such as Turkic Council? Beshogur (talk) 09:41, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Turkish vocablary etymologies
Hello fellow Wikipedians, "The 2005 edition of Güncel Türkçe Sözlük, the official dictionary of the Turkish language published by Turkish Language Association, contains 104,481 words, of which about 86% are Turkish and 14% are of foreign origin." I find this section misleading. Although I firmly believe that that sentence should be given in any case, the stated stats are very divergent from older and/other dictionaries issued by TLA and other agencies. TLA's 1996 print (11th) "Büyük Türkçe Sözlük" for example includes around 45.000 individual words and states that only half of them are Turkic in origin.

Osmanlıca Açısından Arap Harfli ve Latin Harfli Türkçe Lügatlerde ve Sözlüklerde Kelimelerin Karşılaştırmalı Analizleri

For Turkish speakers I leave this source that includes lots of dictionary etymology comparisons for both modern and Ottoman Turkish, so it can also be used for History section. It concludes that Ottoman dictionaries analyzed contained on average 13% Turkic-origin words, meanwhile the average for Turkish ones was %36. I've already edited tr.wiki so feel free to translate. --Gogolplex (talk) 16:11, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 April 2020
gitmeliymişin	is not true It should be gitmeliymişsin 88.248.133.203 (talk) 07:56, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done by . GoingBatty (talk) 16:05, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi protected edit request
oğretmen->öğretmen Under the header of Syntax 3 times.KuzeydekiBuyucu (talk) 01:56, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Semi protected edit request on 2020 May 15th
please change the order of description in the summary, and put the larger speaker group in front of 'and'. It is marginally better to emphasize the main speaker group in the front, so readers at quick glance understood which group is major speaker group, and avoid the slightly Euro-centric ordering of putting a smaller speaker group in Europe in front. As a counter example, it would feel very odd to say that Tagalog has 300 thousand speakers in UAE and 22 million speakers in Philippines.

original text: with around ten to fifteen million native speakers in Southeast Europe (mostly in East and Western Thrace) and sixty to sixty-five million native speakers in Western Asia (mostly in Anatolia). update text: with around sixty to sixty-five million native speakers in Western Asia (mostly in Anatolia) and ten to fifteen million native speakers in Southeast Europe (mostly in East and Western Thrace).
 * Pictogram voting question.svg Question: Wouldn't it be just simpler to say "with around 70 to 80 million speakers, mostly in Turkey"? RandomCanadian (talk | contribs) 22:21, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

requester: agreed it is simpler, but that edit would drop a part of the information from the original article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Askzy (talk • contribs) 00:02, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but the lead is supposed to be a summary of information in the article. I think it would be best if we kept the simpler wording I suggested in the lead, and put the more detailed geographic distribution in the body of the article (such as in the section Geographic distribution. Also, please sign your comments using ~ ; there's even a button at the bottom "Sign your posts on talk pages" I'll add this page to my watchlist so it shouldn't be necessary to reactivate the edit request until we reach a consensus on the matter. Thanks, RandomCanadian (talk | contribs) 00:17, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Requesting wider attention
I felt article Islamic_literature is in bit of neglect so I added my note on talk page there, requesting to take note of Talk:Islamic_literature. If possible requesting copy edit support. Suggestions for suitable reference sources at Talk:Islamic_literature is also welcome.

Posting message here too for neutrality sake

Thanks and greetings

Bookku (talk) 07:16, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aurat (word)
The terms "Aurat", "Arvad", "Avret", and "Awrath" may refer to: Women of Asian religious or cultural descent and identity.

Self nomination for AFD since article copy pasted to Draft:Aurat for incubation because IMHO current article title Aurat (word) is misleading and confusing leading to western systemic bias and stifling the article growth. Please find Detail reason at Articles for deletion/Aurat (word)

I invite project members to review current and potential sourcing and weigh in on the AfD discussion. Thanks! Bookku (talk) 02:53, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 September 2020
Regarding the geographical distribution I would like to add Turkophony among the descendents of Ottoman Armenians particularly from areas around Adana and Kozan in Syria, Lebanon and, to a lesser extent, Armenia.

See e.g.:

David Leupold. "Collectivities Beyond National Frontiers?: The Micro-Narrative of a Turkophone Armenian Family," Die Türkei im Spannungsfeld von Kollektivismus und Diversität, 157-177 Starekeshin (talk) 10:55, 28 September 2020 (UTC)


 * ❌. It's not clear what changes you want to make. Please be more specific. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon &bull; videos) 15:49, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:35, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Caucasus-ethnic en.svg

"Uçgen" - "Altigen" (next to quote number 55)
These words are supposed to be writren as "üçgen" and "altıgen" respectively. Moreover, "üçgen" doesn't break the vovel harmony rules. Maybe "dokuzgen" (nonagon) would be a better example.

-MusiXelect (talk) 23:47, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

Üçgen means triangle And yes dokuzgen is a nonagon The numbers of what they say before “gen” is how many corners the shape has Sarah Shaheenbaz Faizi (talk) 11:28, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Pronunciation Of Düğün
The pronunciation of the word düğün is wrong here, d̪yjyn sounds in Turkish düyün. I think it must be d̪y:yn or d̪yɰyn. 88.226.108.150 (talk) 19:23, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Ğ doesn’t spell as “y” in the Turkish language.

Ğ (yumuşak g) doesn't spell anything so the word “Düğün” will be spelled “düün”.

Sarah Shaheenbaz Faizi (talk) 11:38, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

"Ğ (yumuşak g) doesn't spell anything so the word “Düğün” will.."

Sorry, this is nonsense ,read the following link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ğ

or better ask some local Turk who can actually demonstrate the Ğ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.114.173.151 (talk) 02:11, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Istanbul Turkish?
As far as i know, "Istanbul Turkish" is a dialect. Not the Turkish language itself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.241.66.148 (talk) 23:17, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Istanbul Turkish, as spoken by older adults in the Beyoğlu area, is the standard dialect of Turkish. Erkin Alp Güney 19:05, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
 * There are a few more unofficial common dialects though. Erkin Alp Güney 16:45, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Umbereenbmirza. Peer reviewers: Bfrasure.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 11:48, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 May 2022
Cyprus has never requested that the European Union add Turkish as an official language. And northern Cyprus is a pseudo-state. They are not Cypriots they are Turks. Andreasproz (talk) 22:13, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:28, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

Canvassing
asked for help in Greek WP (At "Agora"- a highly visible place). Here he is literally asking for "some help". In a following post, he estimates that 5-6 users might be needed.[to fix the article]. Cinadon36 07:33, 6 June 2022 (UTC) PS Incidence reported at ANI  Cinadon36 10:39, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed edit request
Hello, could someone please put this vowel table into the phonology section of the article? thanks Stan traynor (talk) 07:39, 10 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Where exactly? Beshogur (talk) 10:20, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * just under the heading "Vowels" - or anywhere you think looks good, really Stan traynor (talk) 15:35, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 July 2022
In the last sentence of the second paragraph under "Writing System", the mention of "Third World levels" should be eliminated. The Three Worlds terminology is from the Cold War, referring to the West, the Soviet sphere, and the Non-Aligned Movement. "Pre-modern" is a much better adjective for this. Add a comma after "original". Also, "its" is unnecessary and akward.

Original: "As a result, there was a dramatic increase in literacy from its original Third World levels."

New:     "As a result, there was a dramatic increase in literacy from original, pre-modern levels." DecentralizedInformation (talk) 19:23, 8 July 2022 (UTC)


 * It sounds like a good change. However, the cause for concern lies in with the claim of a rise in literacy rates. I read the cited part, but no mention of literacy rates improving—the thing that was mentioned was that low literacy rates aided the change because, out of the entire population, few needed to relearn. On page 243 of Coulmas (1989): That the shift from Arabic to Roman was accomplished successfully can be attributed to two factors. First, at the time of the reform, literacy was very low in Turkey, and hence only a small part of the population was required to change from one system to another. Some interesting note on the next page: Although the literati...naturally continued to use the Arabic script for some time...the introduction of the new Turkish orthography with Roman letters was accepted rapidly. No mention of literacy rates. SWinxy (talk) 21:13, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ It sounds like the claim should either be re-written entirely, removed, or tagged (as I've just done) with quote needed or failed verification if that's more appropriate. I'm closing the request for now with preferred wording also implemented. --N8wilson 🔔 05:26, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

Protection request
I have done some changes according UN laws. A user reverted me immediately. I believe that this is going to be continued by taksim propagandists. Please, you need to understand that all the UN members except Turkey, recognize the northern part of Cyprus as an OCCUPIED territory, not as a state. It's not even a de facto state, is a de facto occupation! Please, to the community, protect Cypriots from this propaganda. Greek Rebel (talk) 14:09, 29 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia doesn't run "according to UN laws". Beshogur (talk) 14:18, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Did I deleted the Northern Cyprus? No. I just described its status. It is not a normal independent state. Greek Rebel (talk) 14:35, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The status of Northern Cyprus is clearly explained in that article, it’s clearly off-topic here. There is no need to labour the point every time the place is mentioned, that’s why internal links exist. Stop edit warring and trying to right great wrongs here. GGT (talk) 14:47, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The article is wrong... Turkish language cannot be native in Northern Cyprus, as it's not an independent state. It's native to Cyprus. If we have to describe the status of Northern Cyprus somewhere we must do it at the introduction and the infobox. As I don't write something wrong, please do not reverse my version again! Greek Rebel (talk) 15:16, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Northern Cyprus is a de facto state with proper state institutions, it's explained in the article. Rest is irrelevant to this page. Beshogur (talk) 15:39, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree. Beshogur (talk) 15:38, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

I have a question: Is Turkish a recognized minority language in Greece? BILL1 (talk) 14:57, 29 May 2022 (UTC)


 * No, why? Beshogur (talk) 15:39, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

"It is the national language of Turkey and Northern Cyprus." So you say that Northern Cyprus is a de facto state and that's why you put it in the phrase. But where is Cyprus at this same phrase? As I know Turkish is the co-national language of Cyprus representing 20-25% of the country's population. Why it's not mentioned? Greek Rebel (talk) 19:04, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Northern Cyprus is not a recognized country, but it still exists. It is still a portion of the island of Cyprus that speaks almost in its entirety Turkish. Greek speakers were removed from northern Cyprus, and Turkish speakers were removed from southern Cyprus. Including northern Cyprus here is relevant. Maybe point out it is not recognized, but you can't omit it. --StellarNerd (talk) 20:30, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Please see my version. I never removed Northern Cyprus, I just explain its status. Greek Rebel (talk) 20:47, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * the northern part of Cyprus that's actually occupied by Turkey according the United Nations and the International Law. violation of NPOV. What's the purpose? Beshogur (talk) 21:21, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * You could see there why it's not NPOV. It's the reality. Greek Rebel (talk) 22:15, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * And? Isn't this well known fact? This document doesn't imply anything, and is irrelevant to the topic. Beshogur (talk) 22:20, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * You are blaming me for NPOV. I just prove you that this is not POV. It's truth. According the UN it's not an official state, it's occupied territory. You really think that there is no necessity of mention it at the article? Greek Rebel (talk) 22:58, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * No. It's irrelevant to the article. And your claim North Cyprus being not a country (even de facto) isn't correct. Beshogur (talk) 10:52, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * You are the one who makes the conversation irrelevant, because of your precautionary claims, like that "Northern Cyprus is country". No brother, the northern part of the Republic of Cyprus is occupied... If you want to believe that it's a country believe it, I will choose the International Law and the historical facts. Greek Rebel (talk) 19:13, 30 May 2022 (UTC)


 * The article doesn't imply anywhere that Northern Cyprus is a recognised state, it just mentions the place and links to the article that explains the status much better than it can/should be explained here. This WP:COATRACK attitude that demands an overview of the Cyprus dispute every time Northern Cyprus is mentioned isn't acceptable, and neither is the forum shopping that's being carried out. Drop the stick already. --GGT (talk) 10:19, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I understand that is not mentioned anywhere that northern Cyprus is a recognized state. But it is presented like a state equal of the others. You cannot say that "':Turkish is the national language of Turkey and Northern Cyprus" because is like you say that Turkey and Northern Cyprus are part of the same category. So, my opinion is that we need to say: "Turkish is the national language of the states of Turkey and Cyprus and also of the unrecognized state of Northern Cyprus''" etc. Now do you understand what I am saying? Greek Rebel (talk) 18:58, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * You have been saying little else for a while now; no one is under any illusion as to understanding it. We just don't agree that anything need be done about it, or that we are under a compulsion to change the article to your preferred version.  Do you understand that?   Ravenswing      11:32, 6 June 2022 (UTC)


 * +1 to GGT. Greek Rebel seems to be the one wanting to push a propaganda line here, and rather a petty one: it's not as if the Northern Cyprus article itself -- in the very first sentence of the lead, as it happens -- or other related historical/political articles about Greek-Turkish clashes, fails to mention the fact prominently. Even if "UN law" (which it manifestly does not) required that any mention of Northern Cyprus anywhere be paired with a giant flaming red banner saying "NOT A RECOGNIZED STATE!!!", Wikipedia is not bound by that.  This is getting into trout slap country.   Ravenswing      11:31, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I am not going to mention or answer at the accuses against me... I think that these are ridiculous. But I would like to make a question... Did you visited the Russian language page, as I suggested? If yes, do you think that it's written correctly. Because, if you find this correct, you should support my edits on the Turkish language page. I actually did the same... Greek Rebel (talk) 12:07, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Honestly, we're not going to play this game. I disagree with your premise that this is some vital linkage that needs to be replicated here.  So does every other editor who has commented on it so far, and our opinion is likely shaped by the vehemence of your obvious nationalist anti-Turk stance.  It is entirely possible for other editors to look at the same information you have and neither come to the same conclusion as you have, or if so do not believe it has the same urgency you do.  If you are incapable of wrapping your head around this basic truth -- and nothing you've written so far gives me much hope of better -- you are a poor fit for a collaborative encyclopedia.   Ravenswing      14:08, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

RfC about the matter about the status of Northern Cyprus
Please, could somebody see the discussion above? Northern Cyprus, an unrecognized de facto state, that's internationally recognized as an occupied territory of Cyprus, is mentioned at the page like a normal state. At the Russian language page, there is an example of what I suggest (see how other states like N.Cyprus are presented). Greek Rebel (talk) 20:26, 5 June 2022 (UTC)


 * I believe you’re misunderstanding either the purpose or process of RfCs - the request should be neutrally worded, first things first. GGT (talk) 20:46, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Ok I correct it. Greek Rebel (talk) 21:30, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, this is better but still not ideal, it would help if you read the linked page in full and rewrote it accordingly, or alternatively I can propose a succinct question for you to submit the RfC and you can then write a separate comment explaining your thoughts? GGT (talk) 21:34, 5 June 2022 (UTC)


 * I am not sure what Greek Rebel meant by "Russian language page" but if he is talking about Russian wiki then he should instead substantiate his argument with WP:RS. GenuineArt (talk) 12:24, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I mean the Russian language page, I suggest this kind of presenting at the Turkish language. Because there we have the same cases, states with limited recognition. But there, these states are mentioned only once at the infobox as "states with limited recognition". Why this is not happening at the Turkish language with Northern Cyprus? Greek Rebel (talk) 12:31, 6 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Greek Rebel, could you please directly link the page(s) you are referring to? I didn't see anything posted above. SamuelRiv (talk) 02:12, 21 June 2022 (UTC)