Talk:Vaio

Limited Content?
"superb"? "is a pity"?

NPOV, my arse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.12.137.58 (talk • contribs) 14:38, 19 October 2005

The discussion about the one particular model seems a bit unneccessary, and is a bit POV anyway... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.28.5.241 (talk • contribs) 13:51, 4 December 2005

Discussions
Please keep this discussion board clean and remember to sign any contributions with four "~". Aled D 10:54, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Useful and professional content, please!
The biggest problem with many of the articles like this on Wikipedia is that they are written by emotionally charged people out of a matter of spite. Personal opinions and spite (no matter how correct or justified) have no place in an encyclopedia. Take it to discussion boards or to the streets, not here! Capedude2005 02:17, 10 March 2006 (UTC)


 * First hand personal experiences and subjective posts from users with technical insight may be as thrust worthy and reliable as any online site writing articles about the products - if not more; here the articles can be moderated - articles found on any other tech site can not.


 * To me it sounds like you're just ranting.


 * Regards,


 * H.Wold 08:44, 20 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Speaking of useful content, I am concerned with this article being way too long due to ALL ready-made configurations of the current models being listed. Could we change it to just the series of computers? But with previous models and desktops included? (Myscrnnm 07:27, 11 February 2007 (UTC))

Screen Reflectivity?
The articles states that the screen is not so great outside due to excess reflections. I have a new-generation X-Black screen (Superceding X-Brite), and it has a purple sheen when light hits it, minimising reflections - should this be reflected (ba-dum pish!) in the article's content? Just a thought. User:83.67.3.25 Midnight, 12 July 2006(UTC)
 * Thanks for taking an interest in improving the article. Basically, any additions that you can support with a reference from a reliable source are most welcome. To many new contributors, this seems an onerous requirement, but it is necessary to keep up the quality of articles, and allow visitors to verify that the information is accurate. - User:Samsara (talk • contribs) 23:25, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

SZ2VP
Anyone got experience with the SZ2VP yet? I know it has only been out for sale 6 weeks... I've ordered mine and it is on it's way to me now. Should be here any time now!

However it wasn't easy to obtain one for me.

Vaios are not for sale in Norway and Sony UK didn't care to ship it directly to me, so I had to order mine through a independent 3rd party company in the UK.

I choose a SZ2VP because:


 * It's portable and easy to bring along anywhere, anytime
 * It looks great
 * I prefer quality and durability

I will use my SZ2VP for:


 * Firm related management & tasks
 * Assignments at the college university
 * Storage space for files and management of my PSP
 * Sofa surfing

Best regards,

H.Wold 08:29, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Good to know you've bought a new laptop, you could have told it to your mates or family, we at Wikipedia don't need or want to know about your personal purchases. You could always start a blog somewhere else or post a video on Youtube or just check Sony's webpage.  Marco Alfarrobinha  {chat} contributions 22:13, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

The acronym VAIO
Would people please stop changing the acronym for VAIO! Look under Naming Concept under Origin and Philosophy of VAIO at the Sony Global Website. VAIO stands for Video Audio Integrated Operation. Don't touch it.

AntGiraffe 03:53, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

linux on VAIO?
can somebody with expertise comment on how well vaio works with a linux distro, like if RCA S-Video plugins are supported. thanx. -- Alex Ov  Shaolin  01:38, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Missing VAIO models.
Hey, I've got a VAIO VGN-FS550 (Amazon detailed specs), and not a single FS model is mentioned! I don't know much about them, so I'm not going to go and add the section, but as far as I know they're a line of slim, widescreen notebooks, with an Intel Centrino processor and a WXGA/XBRITE monitor (around 14-15 in.). -Matt 01:41, 19 February 2007 (UTC)


 * As a matter of fact, according to the Sony page (Flash warning) for the VAIOs, the FS is the last model they've released so far (in 2005) in the notebook market. -Matt 01:48, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I have an FS640 that I got about a year and a half ago. I just figured they changed the FS into the FE series when they switched to Intel Core Duo processors from Pentium M processors. If that's true, maybe that could be mentioned on the page. 140.247.157.88 01:43, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

What about the Sony Vaio TP series? -- http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=VGXTP1 --BillyJoeBobJoe 20:18, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The problem with this page is that somebody decided to list all the available default configurations of only the current models of VAIOs offered by Sony. What we should do is get rid of the different configurations of the same series and replace them with a list of all the series ever made, with short descriptions of each.(Myscrnnm 07:25, 27 May 2007 (UTC))

Problems with Firefox?
The images of the laptops do not look right in Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.3, the first is aligned to the right correctly, the second one is below and left of the first, the third is below and left of the second... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.159.121.69 (talk • contribs) 03:16, 4 April 2007

Fair use rationale for Image:Vaio.gif
Image:Vaio.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 01:30, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

This article or section is written like an advertisement
So is every Apple article - particularly the iPhone - but note how this marker is never placed on those pages. Wikipedia stinks of iFanboys. 62.25.106.209 17:05, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I think the issue is that NO page should read like an ad. If you feel Apple articles need to be fixed, you should point that out there rather than here. If we removed the tag here, that would be lowering standards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Neonkow (talk • contribs) 22:30, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Dell XPS Link
Could someone explain why under "Sources" is a link to Dell XPS? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.152.170.215 (talk) 22:19, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Pop culture references
Most of the pop culture references sound more like product placements to me. I wonder if the list should be trimmed or removed entirely as it is quite uncommon to see a Pop culture references section for notebooks anyway. --Cyhawk 17:29, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Maybe some of the less relevant additions could be edited: e.g. anime series, but I think that the VAIO series commands a certain feel to its products that some of thhe pop-culture references could be relevant e.g. Casino Royale, Res. Evil Extinction. -- CC 18.59, 29 Jan 08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.228.194 (talk) 18:59, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it should be reserved for significant references, since there could be dozens of TV shows and films where someone happens to be using a VAIO. cyclosarin (talk) 07:10, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Bundled software
This section really downplays the problem of bloatware on Vaio computers. I have an N-series notebook and there was no option to not install them, and it took around 2 hours to actually remove everything. It also refers to some of the software as protecting your computer, which is dubious at best. Charles 01:01, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * agreed. the good news is norton's being replaced by mcafee (which is slightly better) on new models. there is a way to install just the OS and no apps from recovery disks, but it's a bit sketchy and utterly unsupported by VAIO in Europe anyway.--Kaini (talk) 16:28, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

This is in no way a VAIO specific issue. Therefore not deserving of special mention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.49.210.37 (talk) 21:49, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Exactly. Just make a clean install and that's it. Really no big deal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.49.248.227 (talk) 05:47, 25 September 2011 (UTC)


 * For those wanting all bloatware gone, 1. Recover using VAIO Recovery Utility 2. Uninstall unnecessary programs (bloatware) 3. Use Window's built in program Backup etc to create a SYSTEM IMAGE, also make a windows repair disc (found next to create system image)
 * 4. When recovery required, just use the system image you created, its a complete recovery without all the junk and remember to create your RCDs beforehand incase. Sony couldnt afford to supply them with the units. Saticon (talk) 08:13, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

New Models from Sony
Sony has introduced new range of models,Check them on http://www.sony.co.in/productcategory/it%2Bpersonal%2Bcomputer?site=hp_en_IN_i. Have you seen a new texture of Sony VAIO Tokage VGN-CR353T/Q/S. Check you will definately like it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lokesh Kapoor (talk • contribs) 09:44, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Im New to Wikipedia so im not so familiar with how to edit articles properly, as I'm still learning but if someone would like to help me, I could have the Model Sections updated, as I'm up to date with Current Models and Models being released. and I was hoping we can add a Models page for previous Models, as its very hard to tell which models are current and which have been discontinued. Thank You R★77 18:30, 11 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Hello, I agree with you. There are some models which are part of Sony's line that are not even mentioned on this page, I think this is very outdated. What do you guys think about including this in the products section? As of 2013, Sony counted on a extent range of VAIO products, with 7 different lines of products. The most basic are the models contemplated in the E, T and S series. The most prestigious laptop series is the Z Series. Sony also has a range of hybrid notebooks with touchscreen features, with models called Vaio Duo 11 and Vaio Tap 20, as well as a desktop model under the L series. All this information can be verified on Sony's website, which includes the most updated list of product range for VAIO: http://www.sony.co.uk/hub/vaio-laptops Please let me know what you think. Many thanks, Zalunardo8 (talk) 14:05, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Vista Home Basic
afaik no vaios ship with basic. i know for definite no european models do, a browse through the specs section easily confirms this. a source would be nice. --Kaini (talk) 00:30, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, I dont know about the previous Models coming with Vista Basic or not but the Vaio Line W series comes with Windows 7 Basic. R★77 18:30, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

new models
Please help me update this article to include the new models vaio put on (TT,NS,CS). I can't seem to access the website to get the citations. I'll keep trying, but I could use some help.JakeH07 (talk) 03:25, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Two years later, and this problem is even worse! Klausner (talk) 04:55, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Optical Drive
Many reports online of Vaio DVD drives simply not working. Including mine. As Wikipedia is among the first point of reference for many potential buyers, is this worth a mention? --91.106.255.79 (talk) 21:57, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * if you can find a verifiable reliable, third-party source that has published regarding this, then yeah, by all means --Kaini (talk) 22:21, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * its unlikely, dropping the drive or general wear and tear would degrade operation but typically the drives are just like in any other laptop. Remember that VAIO power management can turn off the drive in reduced power modes Saticon (talk) 08:07, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

ArcSoft WebCam Companion...please write the article...
FYI --222.64.27.98 (talk) 02:55, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * http://www.fujitsu.com/au/services/technology/pc/notebooks/useries/u2020/specs.html#f2

Sony VAIO Wiki page(s) Hierarchy
Some of the Sony VAIO series have their own wiki-pages, but most do not. Since the Sony VAIO brand name has expanded, it may be time to restructure this page to a Sony VAIO brand portal, with sub-pages for Sony VAIO notebooks (laptops), subnotebooks (netbooks?), desktop and media centres ... with lists of the main series released by Sony ... some of which already have their own Wiki-pages. Comments? Enquire (talk) 22:35, 2 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I second this, some of the External links on the page link to specific model wiki pages, rather they should be a sub page all linking to the MAIN Vaio Article page. R★77 18:33, 11 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I support this idea. Go ahead. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.49.248.227 (talk • contribs) 05:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

What did EC series replace?
Please can someone more knowledgeable fix the bad link in VAIO to show what the EC Series replaced (probably AR or CW series)? Thanks. Certes (talk) 13:40, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Requested move (VAIO → Vaio)

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was moved (non-admin closure). I'm willing to assist with moving/renaming backlog upon request, although probably won't get to it immediately. -- Trevj (talk) 11:06, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

VAIO → Vaio – Vaio is the common name. This request should apply to all the articles using VAIO if this move request is successful. Vaio:, , , , ,. VAIO:. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 08:14, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Support per MOS:TM. Powers T 19:09, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Support also per MOS:TM.--Labattblueboy (talk) 20:22, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment I was going to close this myself as moved, per MOS:TM. However, moving all the other articles (which I'll attempt to list below) isn't something I expect to have time to do right now. There are also the numerous further references to "VAIO" within articles themselves (including further mentions outside of those articles where VAIO is currently part of the title). Any volunteers, if this is closed?
 * Sony VAIO UX Micro PC
 * Sony VAIO P series
 * Sony VAIO AR
 * Sony VAIO W series
 * Sony VAIO FJ
 * Sony VAIO FW series
 * Sony VAIO FE series
 * VAIO VGN-TX2
 * Sony VAIO 700 series
 * Sony VAIO F series
 * Sony VAIO 800 series
 * Sony VAIO L series
 * Sony VAIO SR series
 * Sony VAIO C1 series
 * Sony VAIO X series
 * Sony VAIO Y series
 * Comparison of Sony VAIO Laptops
 * Sony VAIO FZ series
 * Sony VAIO AX series
 * Sony VAIO AR series
 * Sony VAIO M series
 * Sony VAIO Z series
 * Sony VAIO 505 series
 * Sony VAIO A series
 * Sony VAIO AW series
 * Sony VAIO FS series
 * Sony VAIO TT series
 * Sony VAIO G series
 * Sony VAIO E series
 * Sony VAIO SZ series
 * Sony VAIO S series
 * Sony VAIO C series
 * The task could be simplified if some of the above were to be merged. Independent notability may not be proved for all of those cases - I don't know. -- Trevj (talk) 08:28, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It shouldn't take me too long to move them and do post-move cleanup as long as none require sysop privileges. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 05:41, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move (Sony Vaio)

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was not moved. --BDD (talk) 18:52, 2 October 2012 (UTC) (non-admin closure)

Vaio → Sony Vaio – I just noticed that all the sources in the above requested move —save for the last which uses "Sony Vaio" only at first mention— use "Sony Vaio". Note that these articles are about individual Vaio models and not the brand itself. It's hard to tell, but it looks like Sony Vaio is preferred slightly in a Google test for keywords "Vaio, brand." The majority of our Sony Vaio articles listed above use this convention too so it would be good for this article to follow suit. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 19:54, 22 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Oppose - simplest name is Vaio, clearly stated in the into (lede) that it is a Sony product.--ZooFamily (talk) 20:30, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Just as we have iPod instead of "Apple iPod" -- penubag  (talk) 23:34, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The convention with most articles is to put the brand in the product like Samsung Galaxy S III. Some don't like Apple iDevices or Google/Samsung's Nexus line of devices where that is not the common name. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 06:35, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

First sentence of the article
In the first sentence, it says "Vaio is a sub-brand used for many of Sony's computer products". I think this should be changed, because it seems that all of Sony's desktops and laptops today are manufactured under that brand. You can read this on Sony's wiki article, only earlier was there other brands used instead of Vaio. However, tablets and smartphones are considered computers too, but they use the Xperia brand instead. --PWNGWN (talk) 22:08, 13 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi PWNGWN! I was reading your comment, but I am not sure if I agree... The sentence is not generalizing, it says it is used for 'many of Sony's computer products', not all of them. What do you propose to change? Thanks! Cheers, Zalunardo8 (talk) 10:46, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Requested move (April 2013)

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Jafeluv (talk) 12:25, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Vaio → VAIO –
 * While this would normally be a great example of "stylized form", VAIO is an acronym. I'm getting sick of people thinking that outside sources are somehow more important than the actual product creators when it comes to the name of that product. No, this is not a controversial move, at all. Despatche (talk) 08:43, 25 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Oppose. We don't do all-caps trademarks as a matter of style, and the article makes it clear that the "acronym" is a series of retronyms in any case. 168.12.253.66 (talk) 13:33, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose; this was just decided 7 months ago. Leave it be.  Powers T 14:02, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose. per Radar and laser. Nobody ever refers to the brand as "V. A. I. O." --  Ohconfucius  ping / poke 06:43, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose; I just tried looking for independent sources and most of the initial results were product-reviews which used "Vaio" rather than "VAIO". bobrayner (talk) 12:07, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Win8 vs. Win10
The article states that the notebooks currently ship with Win8. Looking at, I see this is no longer true and Win10 is now on the machines. I didn't want to make this edit myself because I am employed by Sony -- although I have no insider connection to Vaio, it might seem like bias. Chris Dolan (talk) 17:42, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:36, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Sony Vaio PCV-90.jpg

Requested move 20 February 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved  (t &#183; c)  buidhe  23:57, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Vaio → VAIO – It's an acronym, not just some funky brand stylisation. Mango från yttre rymden (talk) 22:59, 20 February 2021 (UTC). Addition 1: It is its own corporation now, and the naming convention works for VARTA. --Mango från yttre rymden (talk) 15:44, 21 February 2021 (UTC) Addition 2: There's also NATO, which seems to be okay considering it's a much more visited and edited Wikipedia article. In the name of consistency they should be treated the same way. --Mango från yttre rymden (talk) 21:19, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose move. It's been eight years since the last RM, but I don't think anything's changed. A good number of sources treat Vaio as a proper noun, not an acronym.  O.N.R.  (talk) 00:12, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I missed the third and latest move request about the same thing as it wasn't mentioned in the RM banner at the top. Things do have changed though. VAIO is its own corporation now. The naming convention works for VARTA. Because we are supposed to write things correctly, and not just copy others' mistakes and laziness, right? If not, can it at least be titled correctly as VAIO and then be treated the lazy way and be referred to as Vaio in the text? --Mango från yttre rymden (talk) 15:44, 21 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose as pronounced. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:13, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Most news outlets in several different countries and languages write Nato instead of NATO these days. Should that article also be renamed? In the name of consistency they should be treated the same way. --Mango från yttre rymden (talk) 21:19, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

I found that Manual of Style/Capital letters is the guideline for this matter, and upon further investigation have I concluded that VAIO is a brand first and acronym second; when searching for "Visual Audio Intelligent Organizer" there is only an old Sony document explaining the brand/acronym and lots of dictionaries coming up, no-one actually use the full phrase. --Mango från yttre rymden (talk) 13:40, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Page Image
How do we get this page to start showing a Page Image in the search results?

A quick glance at the info page shows the Page Image row is missing: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vaio&action=info

According to this guide, the image should be automatically chosen? https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:PageImages#Image_choice — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gsblo (talk • contribs) 21:23, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Need help collecting the current and Sony Vaio product lines, and key identifying characteristics
Hi fellow Vaio friends and lovers!

I spent some time over the past few weeks to restructure the page and bring the content into 2022, including: 1. Cleaning up the introduction and history 2. Creating a section and starting list of Vaio product lines, both while under Sony and as Vaio Corporation 3. Structuring a Technology section and organizing each of the innovations past page editors have added so they read better.

On #2, I think it's valuable for this page to capture this information, since Sony Vaio resources are starting to disappear from the Internet. With PC/tech reviews/websites and Sony's webpages coming and going over the years, there is no other canonical resource to capture this history, let alone in one place. I wanted to group them roughly by type/form-factor, and by year/generation/lineage. I'm sure we are still missing many from the list, and even the ones that are listed, I would love some help with some of their identifying traits/characteristics.

I am not a seasoned Wikipedia contributor, so comments/feedback most welcome! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gsblo (talk • contribs) 21:31, 6 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Included new 2021-2023 models:
 * VAIO FH14
 * VAIO FE14
 * VAIO FE15
 * VAIO F14
 * VAIO F16
 * VAIO S13
 * VAIO S15
 * Obtained from VAIO USA and Japan websites:
 * https://vaio.com/products/
 * https://us.vaio.com/products Adrlopz (talk) 18:15, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Vaio officially operational in Japan, the United States, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina and Chile
Vaio is officially operational in Japan, the United States, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina and Chile as of late June or early summer 2022.

On June 8, 2022, millions described Japan, the United States, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina and Chile as countries where the company has stores.

2607:FB91:DC7:D8DB:3CBA:BA53:1953:EEBF (talk) 16:40, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Top six countries where Vaio is operational or has stores
Six countries where Vaio is operational or has stores include:

2607:FB91:DC7:D8DB:3CBA:BA53:1953:EEBF (talk) 16:42, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * 🇦🇷 Argentina
 * 🇧🇷 Brazil
 * 🇨🇱 Chile
 * 🇯🇵 Japan
 * 🇲🇽 Mexico
 * 🇺🇸 United States

Vaio stores everywhere in JUMBAC countries
Vaio stores exist in JUMBAC countries, such as the United States, Japan, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico and Chile. 2603:7000:CA01:E5A6:BD43:122F:FB11:3C7E (talk) 01:59, 8 October 2023 (UTC)