Talk:Villa Park

GA review comments
Here you go... A few bits to do, I'll put the review on hold because I know you're keen...! The Rambling Man 09:43, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Ensure all citations are placed according to WP:CITE, e.g. immediately after punctuation is preferred.
 * Done
 * Not quite. I can see at least two citations which have a space between them and their preceding punctuation marks.  Do a quick copyedit.  The Rambling Man 08:39, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * ✅ - found two are they done now ? Everlast 1910 09:50, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Citation for construction cost is needed more than the citation to prove it's a grass pitch.
 * Done
 * Not sure you need en-dash for semi–final, I think hyphen is to be used here - check WP:DASH.
 * Done
 * "semi final" or "semi-final"? Consistency.
 * Done to semi-final throughout
 * "...the origin of the name of the famous stand, the Holte End..." - no need for it be in parentheses and lose the "famous" - it's inherently PoV.
 * Done changed to, the naming of the stand, the Holte End.
 * "...24 foot ..." - use 24 ft and use non-breaking space between the value and the unit, and preferably translate into metres as well.
 * Done (used convert template)
 * In general, try to avoid sentences in parentheses - it detracts from good prose.Done
 * "Club folklore has it that the sight of the Trinity Road frontage (“the St Pancras of football”, as a Sunday Times reporter called it in 1960), was enough to persuade a player to sign for the club." - cite the folklore or lose it, cite the Times report or lose it...
 * Its gone, only refs were mirrors Done
 * Last two paragraphs of History need substantial citation.
 * Done added in refs
 * "...behind–the–goal..." - this is a strange phrase, it needs better explanation I guess.
 * Done removed and changed to End stand
 * "2012 Olympic Games" could be linked.
 * Done,
 * "...for season 2007/8..." - should be "for the 2007–08 season..."
 * Done
 * Rather than walking times, use distances, much less subjective (I walk really fast, others may not...!)
 * Done used convert template again
 * As I said before, I'm not keen on the huge list of FA Cup semis. Make it a fork if necessary (probably not) and simply summarise in this article and maybe make comment on those matches which are notable.
 * Removed i asked on the WP:FOOTY page and no one responded. I was against its inclusion as all the information is listed at the FA Cup Semi-finals page.
 * Future section seems to be a copy of the last section of the last para of the lead.
 * So? The future section is an expansion of what is summarised in the WP:Lead. Where exactly is the issue? 
 * Details section is a strange name. Plus it needs to be written as prose rather than bullet point list of statistics.
 * Done Changed to records and prosified
 * In popular culture section is very light. One sentence?  Try to expand and cite.
 * Agree, but... ''(i have cited it)I think the information is useful but there isn't anywhere else for it to go. I would rather remove the section and move the info to the Lead but then it wouldn't be a good summary of the text, would it? ...
 * Ref 5 says it was accessed in the future... ''
 * Nope? it says 2007-06-26, which if i am not mistaken is 3 months ago...
 * Done was the 'Holte's last stand one' changed! Everlast 1910 11:44, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The BBC references usually have a date on them so you can add that to the cite web template.
 * Done
 * Added "dones" where needed and replies elsewhere. Thanks Woodym555 11:37, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Second round of comments...
 * Don't like the dates in parentheses in the lead, say "played at x from a to b, and at y from c to d..."
 * Done
 * "...is currently comprised of 4..." rewrite as "...currently comprises four stands..."
 * Done
 * Order references numerically i.e. not [7][4] but [4][7]
 * Done
 * "...newest stand at Vila park. " typo!
 * Done
 * "...Children for ..." why capitalised?
 * Done
 * "Euro '96" - better description and wikilink. Also wikilink world cup in same sentence.
 * Done wikilinked both.
 * "Semi-final" or "semi-final" throughout.
 * Done Used semi-final
 * Like the graph, make it bigger and explain what it is within a frame.
 * Done - wrote that it shows the average attendance for each year
 * That's it for this round! Hope they help.  The Rambling Man 07:08, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Done them all I think :) Everlast 1910 09:32, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I'm happy now, so I'll promote to GA. Good work. The Rambling Man 07:31, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

History section of article
The first paragraph of the History section is multiply referenced to two pages from H&V fansite. Don't know whether you've checked these references, but some of the facts referenced don't appear on either page, e.g width of cycle track, description of Leitch's masterpiece Trinity Road Stand...

The width of the track is mentioned here, and it strikes me that this first paragraph of the history section comes pretty close to copyvio of this source. Struway2 | Talk 12:05, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I didn't check the early history section references, no. It looks to me like a complete copyvio to be honest. I will try and rewrite it and check the refs. Woodym555 12:09, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, are you sure that site is not a mirror of here. This particular piece of text was added in November 2004 to here. diff by Villafanuk. The text on that site is a copy of what was on this site about a month ago before i started rewording bits of it. Woodym555 12:15, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * in that case, you're probably right and it is a mirror, even though it doesn't admit to it! The information probably came out of one of Simon Inglis's books in the first place. "Football Grounds of England and Wales" is worth a look (tends to be in bigger libraries) if you're doing football ground articles, though he did one on Villa Park specifically as well. cheers, Struway2 | Talk 14:14, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * just fixed a couple of typos, and started wondering how you're doing with checking the refs? Notes 6 and 18 (currently) cite 123football.com as discussed above - if it's a mirror then surely it shouldn't be cited as a ref? and the architectural stuff in the first history para still cites a page on H&V which doesn't mention it. Sorry I can't help with correcting these, have no access to any Villa sources at the moment. cheers, Struway2 | Talk 07:40, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm, that's a fair point. If those references are mirrors then they should be replaced...  The Rambling Man 07:42, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep i am working on that and trying to find a bit more about the "architecture" i.e. the actual building before an attempt at FA. Woodym555 07:51, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * ✅All replaced! Everlast 1910 07:54, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

inaccuracy re: The Hawthorns station
"West Bromwich Albion was able to rename its local train station to The Hawthorns." - incorrect, as if you read the article The Hawthorns station, the station has never been called anything else. Also, who is to say that it was West Bromwich Albion that named the station? - I haven't seen any evidence of that. --Jameboy (talk) 18:03, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Listing all FA-Cup semi-finals
Hi, I have once again removed the addition of the FA-Cup semi finals to the Villa Park page. A summary of these matches is in the other uses section. This was originally in the article, but was removed as a result of the GA Review which recommended its removal. This information is already covered in the FA Cup Semi-finals and there is no need to duplicate it. It has little relevance to the history of Villa Park and its architecture other than that it is the most used stadium in semi-final history, which is listed. It has little bearing on the history of Villa Park and its development other than that which is already stated. Please discuss your edits here before re-adding them. Please explain why they have relevance without referring to Highbury has them. Wikipedia is not run on precedent, it is run on reasoning and consensus. Regards. Woody (talk) 18:39, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Rugby Union at Villa Park
Villa Park has hosted tour matches against international rugby union teams.


 * 28/12/1960 MC 5-16 RSA

What is Villa Park's Capacity???
The 42,783 figure is sourced. Skysports say a number considerably less. But both skysports and bbc sport both agree that the attendance over the weekend against Man Utd was 42,788. Can we cite this to change the official figure on this page?Willdow (Talk) 15:18, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that would be ok to be honest. This has always been an issue on this page with sources always differing. Over the summer there was a small redevelopment that increased the capacity and a number of sources have not reflected this yet. The two "full-houses" this year have both been at 42,788 but the Premier League website says it is 42,783. As such, when full, the stadium reaches 42,788 and this page should reflect that. Woody (talk) 15:22, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

UEFA Elite stadium
While VP's non-appearance in the List of UEFA Elite Stadiums obviously isn't verification for it not being an elite stadium, this article doesn't seem to contain a source for it currently being one. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 13:03, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Moved
Why was this article moved from Villa Park to Villa Park (stadium)? The former is now a redirect to a dab page. The football stadium (a World cup venue) would seem to be far more notable than the other uses. Andy Mabbett (User: Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 10:41, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Seems the move was done with no consensus. And I agree; this article is clearly the primary topic. I vote to move this back to Villa Park, with a hatnote for the disambig. -- Ja Ga  talk 22:39, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Reply from he who made the move:
 * As to the redirects, I apologize; someone has pointed this out on my talk page and I will take steps to fix the problems.
 * As to the notability, I find it hard to believe that a stadium is automatically more notable that a town. Nonetheless, I did not assert that the towns were more notable, I presumed merely to take a neutral stance and to locate them all at the dab page.  I see no reason why this is unreasonable and would like to see the reasoning as to why it should be returned.
 * And as to the stadium being "clearly the primary topic", I think it may be a bit Anglo-centric to say that . I have never been to any of these Villa Parks, towns or otherwise, but the only one I had ever heard of was one of the towns.  What's obvious standing in your shoes may not be obvious to someone standing elsewhere.
 * And no, I did not attempt to achieve consensus; however, 99% of what we do is without first obtaining consensus, and it is only in cases (like this) when someone objects that it is necessary to seek consensus. So while I am happy to explain my actions and my thinking, I hardly think I've done anything rude or inherently objectionable.
 * HuskyHuskie (talk) 23:56, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I see that User:JaGa is a Stateside product. I will strike the appropriate comment. HuskyHuskie (talk) 00:00, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Retraction
I was preparing to make my "rock solid" argument to not move this back and it went something like this: One of the Villa Park municipalities has been around for 100 years, and the cities will almost certainly be around longer than some mere stadium, since stadia usually have a lifetime measured in decades. But I've just read the article on the stadium, and I now realize just why this particular stadium features so prominently in your minds. I concur and must now endorse the reversal of my move. I apologize for the trouble I've caused, but I assure you it was in good faith. I'll go crawl under a rock for the rest of the day. HuskyHuskie (talk) 00:07, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Walker quote
I have moved the Billy Walker quote here to see anywhere where it can be placed or discuss its merits It seems a bit fawning in the article and as a peer reviewer has put it, a bit whimsical. Woody (talk) 21:36, 18 November 2010 (UTC) About Villa Park itself hung an aura that seems almost to be visible. Most certainly it is there to be felt and I know of no other ground that has the same effect on one. Almost it seems to be peopled by ghosts – amiable ghosts whose job it is to breathe the great Villa spirit into generation after generation of ambitious youngsters who pass through the great gates to achieve a life's ambition; to wear the famous claret and blue of the great club.

Banner
I have removed the following text from the article:

"There are two large banners bearing famous quotes relating to the club's history:
 * Holte End, between the two tiers: "Football League founded by Aston Villa, won by Villa! 1874 a very good year for football!"
 * North Stand, above the boxes: "Shaw, Williams, prepared to venture down the left. There's a good ball in for Tony Morley. Oh, it must be and it is! It's Peter Withe" - 1982 European Cup Final"

I removed it primarily because it is unsourced. Simply stating that you can read it in the picture is not a valid argument given that would be a primary source. On another more practical note, I don't particularly think it is noteworthy enough to include it here. Villa Park has existed for a very long time, having a couple of banners up on the stands for the last few seasons is not enough to warrant its inclusion here when put against the context of the history of the club and of the stadium. We need other reliable secondary and tertiary sources discussing the banners and the impact they might have/not have on Villa Park. As it is, personally I don't think it merits inclusion in the article but particularly given the lack of sources it shouldn't be added back without discussion. I would like to see what other people think about it and build a consensus. Woody (talk) 20:14, 29 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I initially removed the text as unsourced, and when Crookesmoor re-added it, I posted the following at their talk page (probably should have posted here in the first place):
 * Villa Park is a featured article, so there are a few problems with the banner thing. The first is that information must be reliably sourced. Even if the wording were readable from the panorama, which it isn't really, all that photo verifies is that when it was taken, those words were being displayed. It doesn't verify that they're a permanent part of the stadium's structure and facilities or indicate their importance. If they really are significant enough to include, they need a brief explanation for the benefit of the general reader rather than just listing, and if they're really "famous quotes", they ought to be attributed to whoever's being quoted.
 * Not sure I'm best qualified to judge the impact of the banners or their importance in context of the 115+ years of the stadium's history, but I share Woody's concerns about secondary/independent sourcing. I've had a quick look: there are mentions of the European Cup commentary banner in quite a few external sources, e.g., , , , , but not the other one. Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with a sentence something like Since 20xx, a banner bearing an extract from Brian Moore's commentary on Villa's European Cup-winning goal has hung across the North Stand, and put the actual wording in the footnote. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 08:07, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

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UEFA Rating
Should the 4 star UEFA rating be put on the infobox photo caption as with Stadium of Light and Juventus Stadium? Thanks, WikiImprovment78 (talk) 21:20, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

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