Talk:Vladimir Putin/Archive 18

Photo
I suggest putting this relatively recent photo (September 2022) as an illustration. Putin is looking straight at the camera, nice color correction, and generally it looks like a new official portrait. Roman Kubanskiy (talk) 16:11, 21 March 2023 (UTC)


 * it is 2023, we should use newer picture Shadow4dark (talk) 07:37, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * So far, there are no images of this quality or images better than this for 2023. Roman Kubanskiy (talk) 09:40, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I prefer this one, it looks non cropped and more official portrait, Vladimir Putin September 5, 2022 (cropped 2).jpg similar as official portrait of B,Netanyahu https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Benjamin_Netanyahu,_February_2023.jpg] Shadow4dark (talk) 11:48, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Roman Kubanskiyor @Shadow4dark What is the last photo doing there? That is definitely not Putin (or it is but I am just purely blind)! 756gamernowatroblox (talk) 13:40, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I only want compare them Shadow4dark (talk) 13:59, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support for the first file PLATEL (talk) 07:24, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I support the first picture. Jimmy Jimbo Johnson the V (talk) 05:53, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I believe you can't vote here as this is a extended confirmed page, correct me if I am wrong. Shadow4dark (talk) 10:22, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * He can't. Also no real reason to change the photo from the current one - his appearance did not significantly alter in these two years. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 14:39, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose changing the photo - seems arbitrary and these are not significantly better. Photo is less than 2 years later from current photo. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 14:40, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

I found this one which was done in September 2022 and is Creative Commons licensed. Pyraminxsolver (talk) 00:25, 28 April 2023 (UTC)


 * That one is much better. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 00:48, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Mellk's reverts
The editor Mellk, who has a long history of attempting to remove material that is critical of Putin without any proper reason, has removed the fact that Putin's arrest warrant relates to war crimes, with a nonsensical edit summary

This seems like a case of WP:IDONTLIKEIT (again). The arrest warrant specifically relates to war crimes, see ICC's own statement, and this is highly relevant and important to include:
 * "Mr Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, born on 7 October 1952, President of the Russian Federation, is allegedly responsible for the war crime of unlawful deportation of population (children) and that of unlawful transfer of population (children) from occupied areas of Ukraine to the Russian Federation (under articles 8(2)(a)(vii) and 8(2)(b)(viii) of the Rome Statute)."

--Tataral (talk) 17:43, 24 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Spare me the BS. You changed it to alleged criminal responsibility for war crimes including the illegal child abductions during the war" (emphasis mine) implying charges for other things aside from the abductions. But let's see, in this article recently you did not properly engage with the talk page discussion over disputed changes and continued to restore them: Mellk (talk) 18:11, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Also the baseless accusations above must be struck. Mellk (talk) 18:14, 24 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Nonsense, the wording was entirely correct. The arrest warrant cites the war crime of unlawful deportation and the unlawful transfer of population (children) from occupied areas of Ukraine to the Russian Federation. It can be debated whether "child abductions", a non-legal and somewhat imprecise term, applies to both or just transfer of children, although it could be worded as "involving" instead of "including." The issue here is your removal of war crime, not the word "including" which is really just hair-splitting and which you could have changed (e.g. to "involving") if that was your objection (as you write above), instead of removing war crime. --Tataral (talk) 18:36, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * What I did was revert your edit. Instead of asking for clarification, you went straight to polemics. You were also just alerted about contentious topics, by the way. Mellk (talk) 18:47, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * No, you were the one who started edit-warring instead of just engaging with the edit in a constructive manner, e.g. by changing it or raising your objections on the talk page. You claim specifically that you objected to the word "including" (which seems like hair-splitting to me, and which isn't a word I would even insist on), yet instead of doing something about that by removing/changing that word you reverted the term war crime which was clearly the key issue. --Tataral (talk) 18:50, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * No, please read carefully what it says on WP:EW. Your prior edits are an example of edit warring because despite being reverted and a discussion taking place, you continued to restore your changes. Mellk (talk) 18:55, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Nonsense. --Tataral (talk) 21:16, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah, so that was not edit warring but anyone who reverts you once is edit warring and you have to imply that they are some kind of apologist. Have you heard of WP:BRD? The issue is probably WP:CIR. Mellk (talk) 01:46, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

I agree. Putin is now widely considered a war criminal, regardless if ICC's own statement was politically biased.Information warrant for his arrest should be stated. Bermandolaoro (talk) 21:18, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 May 2023
Change all references to Putin being President of Russia to Putin being the Dictator of Russia to reflect the reality of his position/ruling status over Rusia.

President - the elected head of a republic. Dictator - a ruler with total power over a country, typically one who has obtained control by force

Putin has gained and maintained power through violence and not an election. Calling Putin a "president" is an insult to all elected leaders and is a flat out lie. 71.115.241.5 (talk) 03:20, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: He is referred to as the President of Russia simply because that is the name of the office he holds - this in no way asserts that he is or is not a dictator. Statements on the exact form of his power are contained in the section Assessments of Putin. To provide other examples (while, to be clear, not drawing a comparison), Kim Jong Un is described as Supreme Leader of North Korea, similarly because that is the official name of the office he holds. Tollens (talk) 03:57, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Comparison with Hitler/Stalin
I propose adding the following (could be altered if you wish so) sentence into the article:

"His authoritarian tendencies, suppression of personal and civic freedoms, as well as his blatant disrespect towards the international law, have drawn comparisons/have led scholars and commentators to compare him with Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin".

I am not a native speaker of English, so I do apologize if this sounds ungrammatical or whatever. But I think it does make sense. Nowy Prywaciarz (talk) 08:10, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
 * What sources do you have that make this comparison? 331dot (talk) 08:20, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
 * That's your personal opinion. Which "scholar" are you referencing ?
 * In that context leaders of several asian countries (china, Afghanistan,NK) are Hitler's clones !!! DLord36 (talk) 15:43, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Strong Oppose Putin is hardly a shining example of righteousness, but that does not place him in the same league as Hitler or Stalin. Comparisons, apart from potentially trivializing those mass murderers, misstate the facts. Putin has already been responsible for enough bad actions (in general, I personally prefer to avoid moral characterizations when discussing international figures) that there is no need to do anything but present the facts in a calm and NPOV manner, much less demonize him.
 * You would need to show that these comparisons are widespread. Otherwise, quoting one or two scholars and commentators would be POV. WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV does not exempt editors from WP:DUE. This is already a rather widespread phenomenon on English Wikipedia.
 * Also, world leaders are living people too and BLP rules still apply. In my view, and that of Western liberal societies in general, a human must be respected as a human regardless of their actions, since not to do so would be disrespectful to all humans.
 * RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 20:27, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @RadioactiveBoulevardier totally agree. Putin might be responsible for several barbaric actions but the mass atrocities, mass war crimes committed by leaders like Stalin or Hitler are far far worse. DLord36 (talk) 10:27, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * At V.V.Putin lack of willpower.
 * To reject "Gifts of Destiny" (the gifts of the Danaans that bring gifts). In this way . Vladimir Vladimirovich remains himself. And there is no comparison! Neither with the first nor with the second character of the story. On the other hand . If these "Danaer" . “If all or most of their 'gifts' are taken away...then fundamental changes in the personality of Vladimir Putin are quite possible.
 * (just a personal opinion, sorry:)
 * CaroFraTysklandNr.2 (talk) 13:09, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 * CaroFraTysklandNr.2 (talk) 13:09, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 June 2023
Write that he has cancer 2A00:23C6:CC88:FC01:1101:5300:7856:D29F (talk) 17:37, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — Czello (music) 17:40, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 July 2023
Change President to Dictator not because of his title but how he controls everything entire country. 2601:441:8201:9680:8924:F9A9:B03C:23BE (talk) 15:53, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. — Czello (music) 15:55, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

1 additional daughter to add
This assumes a 3rd child of Putin needs to be added to the Wiki pages. Natalia Bochkareva is according to the Daily Mail 44 when she passed away. The reason of her passing seems to be in the 'suspicious' category meaning there could potentially be fault play at hand. This has to be proven still, but according tot he article there are at least thoughts in that direction.

Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12299521/Daughter-Putin-ally-dead-Moscow-apartment-feeling-unwell.html To know your present and future, you need to learn your past. 12:22, 15 July 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SIG442 (talk • contribs)
 * You will need a source other than the Daily Mail, which is specifically barred as a reliable source, see WP:DAILYMAIL. 331dot (talk) 12:28, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Is there any coverage of this in reliable sources? The Daily Mail is unsuitable for use in Wikipedia. —C.Fred (talk) 12:29, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 July 2023
i would like to edit so i can write extra information for educational reasons 2A02:C7C:6A66:4E00:B8EA:6CAC:E8EA:2C8E (talk) 19:09, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The edit request process is for proposing specific changes, in the form of "change X to Y". Please propose your edit here. 331dot (talk) 19:52, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Incorrect info on Putin's job in the 1990s
He worked (as deputy) in Presidential Property Management Department and later as head of the Main Control Directorate of the Presidential Administration of Russia (these days, "Main" is dropped from the name), not the Main Control Directorate of the Presidential Property Management Department (which is still called "Main"). These are two different offices. Loquens homo (talk) 16:39, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Dictator
It has to be added in the lead that he's frequently described as a dictator. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.196.176.223 (talk) 08:30, 15 July 2023 (UTC)


 * How many sources have you reviewed to use "frequently described" ? Pls add these. 43.241.144.234 (talk) 11:42, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Dictator
It has to be added in the lead that he's frequently described as a dictator. 85.196.176.223 (talk) 12:39, 18 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Please offer reliable sources to support that position. 331dot (talk) 15:51, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @331dot It's in the article itself lmfao. Search 'dictator'. Even Biden called him that way. 85.196.176.223 (talk) 07:13, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Well sorry that you are "lmfao" but I just went by what you said here. "Dictator" is a highly charged term that would seem to violate WP:NPOV(in terms of being in the lead) as it is a matter of opinion(even if I personally agree). 331dot (talk) 08:03, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @331dot Again, it's not about wording it as something like "Putin is a former Russian security agent, current President and dictator of Russia [...]" but it just has to be mentioned in the end of the lead that in the West he's generally considered a dictator, with the aforementioned sources added. 85.196.176.223 (talk) 15:48, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
 * You can find such label for a good number of politicians these days. The lead has already noted "Under Putin's leadership, Russia has undergone democratic backsliding and a shift to authoritarianism." Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 18:07, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
 * "Democratic backsliding" is not the way you describe an outright dictatorship tbhngl and "authoritarianism" is pretty vague. GreatLeader1945 (talk) 16:19, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Just because some countries which are aiding or are in war against a country claim that the leader of that country is a dictator doesn't make that leader a dictator. 43.241.144.234 (talk) 11:39, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * "Aktchually..." So Russia is actually a liberal-democratic country according to you, right? lol It's objectively a dictatorship per definition - just like Syria under Assad, Belarus under Lukashenko etc. GreatLeader1945 (talk) 19:02, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
 * It would be good if you share your "definition" of a dictatorship for starters, then provide the reliable sources that support the claim, I do not consider him a Dictator, he might be an authoritarian leader if you wish, he doesn't satisfy the Dictator label at all. Juanriveranava (talk) 20:40, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I personally think it would be more interesting to hear *your* definition (why the scare quotes?) since Putin seems like a textbook example to me. For example, Ukrainska Pravda calls him a dictator in this article: https://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2023/08/22/7416641/ Schweinchen (talk) 19:34, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

New infobox image
I suggest putting one of these two relatively recent photos (June 2023) as the infobox image. Putin is looking straight at the camera, neutral background colours, and generally looks like an official portrait. Alza08 (talk) 14:12, 24 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The uncropped version of the first image Владимир Путин (18-06-2023).jpg seems better; the flags behind the Russian President make it more official-looking. — Red-tailed hawk  (nest) 04:34, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree; I think that RedTailed makes a good point with regard to the flag being in the background. I do think that the second photo is best as it contains the best of both worlds while looking pretty close to most other portraits. Feel free to start a new discussion or RFC if y'all wish to take this to a wider community.  Invading Invader  (userpage, talk) 21:37, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography removed
I removed the banner for WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography because guideline WP:SUSPECT advises that a living person accused of a crime is presumed innocent until convicted by a court of law, and guideline WP:CRIMINAL goes further to say that if a conviction has not been recorded for someone accused of a crime editors should seriously consider not creating an article. Conviction is the standard for a living person having a criminal biography, just being wanted by Interpol is insufficient to meet that threshold. Besides, the subject's article makes no mention of being wanted by Interpol. Since this is a biography of a living person, evidence from reliable sources is needed to demonstrate the standard for having the contentious and value-laden word CRIMINAL associated with any biography. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 08:49, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Putin is wanted by the International Criminal Court, not Interpol(as far as I am aware). The banner was not article content, but identifying this article as of interest to those who participate in the Crime WikiProject.  Putin is accused of war crimes so this article would be of interest to that project.  I don't believe there is an "accused suspect" WikiProject for this to go to first before handing it off to the criminal project once he is captured and convicted(which is unlikely to occur under present circumstances) and I don't think WikiProjects work like that anyway.  I don't think that Putin has to be convicted in order for this article to be marked as of interest to the Crime WikiProject. 331dot (talk) 08:56, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The assertion that the WikiProject banner was added was that the subject was wanted by Interpol. However, there was no mention of that in his article. I therefore removed the banner because the edit summary was misleading and inaccurate. Before it n be properly assessed the right facts should be included in the article; this still is a biography of a living person, after all. Thanks for the correction that Putin is wanted by the International Criminal Court, since that is mentioned in the article it does make the WikiProject banner as being relevant. As I said, reliable evidence is needed in the article to justify addition of the banner. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 09:15, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The evidence is that Putin is accused of a crime(and being investigated for others). As I said I don't think he has to be convicted of a crime for this article to be marked as of interest to the Crime WikiProject, which is all that the banner does. 331dot (talk) 09:20, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @331dot: Banner reinstated, with the correct facts. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 09:22, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I would support the inclusion of the banner.  Invading Invader  (userpage, talk) 21:36, 23 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Since the focus of that WikiProject is on people whose primary or sole notability is owed to criminality, Putin would be out of place. But including it, we are basically appealing to people interested in crime to contribute to the article. It's not likely though that people interested in Gotti, Charles Manson and the Sandy Hook shooter is going to be interested in Putin's biography.
 * In any case, being accused of crime comes with the territory for being a politician. In the last fifty years alone, three U.S. presidents have been or would have been impeached, one had a criminal record before entering politics and there have been multiple claims of war crimes, corruption and violations of civil rights.
 * TFD (talk) 21:52, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Incorrect information about Putin's Height.
Wiki page is quoted as saying: "Putin's height has been estimated by Kremlin insiders to be between 155 and 165 centimetres (5 feet 1 inch and 5 feet 5 inches) tall but is usually given at 170 centimetres (5 feet 7 inches)."

Nowhere in either source 626 or 627 is it implied that Putin is 5 ft 1 to 5 ft 5. The only figure given is 5 ft 7. It seems whoever added this idea to this wiki page has some kind of agenda.

Putin is 170cm tall. There are numerous pictures of Putin with other world leaders whose heights are known.

With Narendra Modi (5 ft 7): https://cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/QKL7QKFROFL77CKOOL3QLRDU2M.jpg

With Ebrahim Raisi (5 ft 7): https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/canvas/2022/07/20/f6da6a44-b9e1-44ef-b090-55231960aff1_f2959408.jpg

With Macron (5 ft 8) we see Putin is a bit shorter: https://www.google.com/search?q=putin+and+macron+shake+hands&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwju45CKnfuAAxWROUQIHYQsAN0Q2-cCegQIABAA&oq=putin+and+macron+shake+hands&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoECCMQJ1D-CViHE2CDFGgAcAB4AIABRIgBhQSSAQE4mAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=CWnqZK67OpHzkPIPhNmA6A0&bih=643&biw=1396#imgrc=K-Xws8eHkBqNyM

Here we see President Zelensky (5 ft 7) next to Macron at right around the same level as Putin: https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2022/06/000_32CL6DU.jpg

This should be updated. It seems to imply an arbitrary anti-Putin narrative, calling him short with no evidence. There is a plethora of evidence against the idea that Putin is anything but 5 ft 7. This is just a ridiculous claim. Alternatively, if wiki is going to state that Putin could be 5 ft 1, at least say the same about Zelensky, since they both appear to be the same height. Stuffmaster1000 (talk) 21:14, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 September 2023
lanuage = language 2603:8000:D300:3650:4C1D:B062:2D04:9F66 (talk) 19:26, 1 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Could you detail where this error is more specifically, as this article is lengthy? 331dot (talk) 19:32, 1 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Best to use your tools. Has it ever been the occasion on something as simple as this to do a string search? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8000:D300:3650:4C1D:B062:2D04:9F66 (talk) 20:16, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ It was a typo in the reference. Good catch. ayakanaa  ( t · c ) 22:12, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 September 2023
Novo-Ogaryovo is not in Moscow.

Change Mishab~ruwiki (talk) 20:07, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 20:24, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 September 2023
Please change this short description to "President of Russia since 2012". 112.205.179.117 (talk) 10:01, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
 * ❌ The short description is the more accurate "President of Russia (1999-2008, 2012-present)" and you provide no reason to make this change. 331dot (talk) 10:04, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Accused war criminal
Putin is accused war criminal and it should be stated in the first paragraph. 80.187.123.207 (talk) 15:43, 14 September 2023 (UTC)


 * So what? Being accused does not mean guilty. Gagitransnoip (talk) 13:51, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

"Vlad putin" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vlad_putin&redirect=no Vlad putin] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached. Edward-Woodrow •  talk  19:46, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Next topic: whether to redirect from "Vlad the Poisoner." NRPanikker (talk) 21:56, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Nonsense
In March 2023, the International Criminal Court issued an arrest warrant for Putin for war crimes related to his alleged criminal responsibility for illegal child abductions during the war.

The Toothless ICC has no jurisdiction over Russia. Gagitransnoip (talk) 14:00, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

The arrest warrant is important to the article and covered by a variety of reputable sources. Whatever the case, what changes are you proposing to this article? OmegaMantis (talk) 19:29, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

The existence of an international arrest warrant is relevant, since it affects where Putin may travel or reside if he survives deposition from power. Most of his properties in Europe would be off-limits to him. NRPanikker (talk) 21:54, 25 September 2023 (UTC)


 * What properties? Do you know what are you talking about? Gagitransnoip (talk) 16:42, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * @Gagitransnoip, please read WP:AGF and refrain from personal attacks. —OuroborosCobra (talk) 19:28, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Vladimir Putin article
I think that this article on Putin is way too long for a Wikipedia entry. Whoever created it should just write a book! Moreover, it is very obviously anti-Putin, and the author(s) seem to go out of its way to include "dirt" on Putin. Many of the details presented, such as the name and breed of his dog, are not of any historical or political importance. Ditto for the details about his alleged children out of wedlock. I have read Wikipedia articles on important literary and political figures that are maybe 1/16th the length of this screed. I am not against the right of the author(s?) to express their views on Vladimir Putin, but I'm not sure that an article of tens of thousands of words damning Putin is a helpful contribution to world knowledge at a time when the two superpowers (U.S. and Russia) are closer to direct conflict than at any time since the Cuban Missile Crisis. Yes, Wikipedia, please cut this article down!! 169.156.21.166 (talk) 15:45, 6 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Most articles on world leaders are lengthy. If you have specific ideas for shortening it, such as spinning off content into separate articles, or removing content, feel free to make specific proposals here.
 * Most sources in this article are probably from non-Russian outlets, so they probably will be skewed in terms of point of view. The trouble is that the Russian press is not independent so it's not possible to use them here. 331dot (talk) 17:06, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 October 2023
Please remove flags per MOS:INFOBOXFLAG, just like they did previous times before: 112.204.217.93 (talk) 12:23, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Special:Permalink/995632235
 * Special:Permalink/1064599982
 * Special:Permalink/1078692088
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: this is the most recent edit to readd the flags, made by . Given that this appears to be an ongoing issue it should be discussed before making more reverts. Elli (talk &#124; contribs) 23:26, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

Secret Children
Why aren't his five secret children mentioned in this article? He had 4 secret children with a gymnast Alina Kabaeva and they are hiding in Switzerland. He also has a daughter, Luiza Rosova, with Svetlana Krivonogikh 76.65.45.114 (talk) 17:42, 1 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi, you need to provide a reliable source for claims about living people. Fermiboson (talk) 12:19, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Death
Did he die of a heart attack? attackCouchPotato0209 (talk) 16:06, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Not exactly. According to Valery Solovei, he died from cancer, but there were also heart problems due to his condition caused by cancer. There are many interesting details related to his death, disease, Russian and even Israel politics in the interview he just gave to Dmitry Gordon: here, but this is all in Russian. I doubt we can say on the page yet. Let's wait for publications in mainstream RS if any. My very best wishes (talk) 16:47, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Peskov said "no" . Solovey says they are using body doubles (there are several of them). My very best wishes (talk) 18:29, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
 * There is not a single reliable source reporting the death. He is pretty clearly alive and likely in a good health. Ymblanter (talk) 18:40, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The interview of Valery Solovei published by Dmitry Gordon (linked above) is an RS, although a primary one. Did you listen everything that Solovey has said? That was a bunch of revelations. "clearly alive" does not apply here since he has several body doubles. Sure, we need more sources to include this content to the page. My very best wishes (talk) 18:49, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Some of that was included here already Predictions_of_Vladimir_Putin's_death_or_incapacity. My very best wishes (talk) 18:53, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
 * - here is an article by Alexander J. Motyl in The Hill about this story. My very best wishes (talk) 18:07, 31 October 2023 (UTC)


 * We don't even know whether he is "dead" yet or this is part of the "information war." Whether that is Russia or the United States. It doesn't seem that a credible news source e.g. the BBC, Washington Post, Guardian, New York Times, or journal such as The Atlantic, ABC (Australia) has run a story on it. I will believe it when it's confirmed by a credible source. The current Australian perspective is that its rubbish... This is a really good analysis from one of the most credible sources in Australia. I would suspect the "death hoax" claims would be notable and should be added to the article, but I don't like Wikipedia in the first place enough to participate myself. I think Credibility applies here and particularly ffact checking. If he were truly dead I've studied enough about the matter in academia to know thee are back channels that would report on it almost instantly. This right wing populist "Neo-clandestine" approach of McCarthyists hiding under your bed is really not what it's cracked up to be. If Putin were really dead it would be on the front page of next months Atlantic in a huge synopsis and that of the New York Times, BBC, etc not some rubbish alt-lite paper. --115.69.5.140 (talk) 12:14, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure, this might be just a rumor spread on purpose, see ,. But what was the purpose? This is very strange story. Meanwhile, Solovei continue to insist that Putin is dead . My very best wishes (talk) 19:02, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Why do you keep replying. Please stop this is literally the top comment. (please stop) CouchPotato0209 (talk) 20:47, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Prime Minister and President
Does anyone know what the difference of this in Russia? It says that both of the ranks are at the total top for political power, but it doesnt say a difference. Wild west man (talk) 23:54, 5 November 2023 (UTC)


 * The difference between these offices has differed depending upon who held them at the time, so it isn’t easy to delineate that way. I suggest reading the individual articles on the positions. —OuroborosCobra (talk) 03:44, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Popebenedict648 (talk) 05:05, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 November 2023
Putin died of a heart attack on October 26, 2023. Told by Telegram Channel SVR General and confirmed on November 10, 2023 when Patrushev, an intimate friend of Putin gave a farewell speech about Putin telling how he had been such a “great” leader

Source: https://m.timesofindia.com/world/europe/vladimir-putin-death-rumours-surge-after-bizzare-speech-by-successor/amp_articleshow/105132283.cms Mayonnaise888 (talk) 17:59, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Not done, discussed above.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:03, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Death again
"In late October 2023, rumours of Putin's death spread in traditional and social media. They were sparked by a social media post by 'General SVG', and there were subsequent claims that Russian political analyst Valery Solovey had confirmed the death. Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov stated on 27 October that stories of Putin’s death were a hoax. Andriy Yusov of Ukrainian Defence Intelligence responded with allegations that the rumour was a deliberate Russian campaign to assess support for the president and to punish opposition. Reports intensified continued in early November after Nikolai Patrushev, secretary of the Security Council, delivered a speech praising Putin in which he consistently referred to the president in the past tense. This was reportedly noted by opposition politician Gennady Gudkov and opposition political scientist Andrey Piontkovsky." Finding stronger sources than Daily Mail and Telegraph, is challenging, though. At time of writing, Snopes summarises the rumour and the Ukrainian response (with links out to sources like Reuters), but doesn't mention the Patrushev speech. I'm a chicken and not game to add the above paragraph to the Vladimir_Putin section at this time. ⁓ Pelagic ( messages ) 22:06, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Absolutely not worthy of mention unless non garbage-tier sources emerge. VQuakr (talk) 23:12, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, the head of FSB Patrushev just made a speech apparently implying that Putin is dead (random ref: ), consistently with the claim by Solovei who lives in Moscow and said he is "protected by a powerful organization", probably the same FSB. That definitely means something, i.e. Putin is either truly dead or FSB is trying to undermine him. But I agree we should wait for more sources. The alleged Putin's body double known as 'Vasilyevich' can hardly be "in charge" for more than a few weeks. My very best wishes (talk) 01:57, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * - new interview with Valery Solovey who provides a lot of additional details about the political struggle in Russia after the alleged death of Putin (older ones: (3.7 million views) and  ). That was interesting and seems plausible to me, but one needs more sources for inclusion on WP pages. My very best wishes (talk) 17:48, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * They are talking about taking his body out of the refrigerator for his funeral. Would it not be much easier just to simply bury it with him still inside? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:30, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The presidential elections in Russia are coming. No later than in a month from now, someone (Putin, the alleged body double or a successor) must declare their intentions. This is assuming they will not cancel the elections due to war or whatever. My very best wishes (talk) 19:01, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah yes. That's bound to be a totally free and fair process, isn't it. Unless, as you say, it's put on the shelf for some reason. But slightly disappointed there'll be only one alleged body double. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:06, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * He used two or three body doubles ,; they do look and behave differently from the "original", this is well-known (Peskov lied). Which does not mean that Putin is dead. Will they use a body double like Kagemusha? Hell knows. My very best wishes (talk) 04:21, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * That's an intriguing thought (although that film didn't end at the International Criminal Court in The Hague). Yes, the body doubles did behave differently: they weren't directly responsible for the deaths of 9,701 civilians and the wounding of 17,748 more. The only double currently mentioned in the article is the one poisoned with Novichok in Salisbury. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:17, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * This is not my thought. This is something Solovey said (link above). He said that Russian leadership is now considering two options: (a) promoting Dmitry Patrushev or someone else as a new presidential successor, and (b) the body double taking part as Putin in the elections (not very likely, too risky), this is exactly like Kagemusha. It does not mean I believe Solovey. Some say he is a professor in the field known as Psyop. Indeed, one of his books is, i.e. (translation) "An absolute weapon. The basics of psychological war and manipulations with media". My very best wishes (talk) 16:53, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Exactly like? Including the bit where he attempts to ride Shingen's notoriously temperamental horse, and falls off... etc.? That would prove interesting. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:51, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * No, no one needs the horse today, even in Japan . My very best wishes (talk) 02:02, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The lack of widespread coverage in mainstream reliable sources means it lacks weight for inclusion. TFD (talk) 18:41, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, indeed. I just enjoy listening what Prof. Solovey has to say. My very best wishes (talk) 19:01, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

"(eleven years ago)"
Any reason why this is in the infobox? Pretty sure users will be able to work out the length of his presidency without that being there. 195.99.227.0 (talk) 02:12, 2 December 2023 (UTC)


 * That has now been removed. A. Randomdude0000 (talk) 13:27, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 December 2023
Updated photo of Putin in November 2023.

Ultraprime12345 (talk) 18:10, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. NotAGenious (talk) 19:41, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Relevance of sentence to paragraph?
I don't know why this sentence appears at the end of the "Cult of personality" section.

In 2015, his advisor Mikhail Lesin was found dead after "days of excessive consumption of alcohol", though his death was later ruled as the result of an accident.

Maybe it was meant to be placed elsewhere in the article? 98.170.164.88 (talk) 00:38, 27 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Posting again so this doesn't fall into the archive. Could someone take a quick look at this? I think a better spot in the article could be found. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 14:52, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, it was completely out of context. I removed it. My very best wishes (talk) 03:03, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Mikhail Lesin was an important figure during Putin's career (as one can find on the page about Lesin). One would need to create a large paragraph about him on this page. Simply moving the phrase somewhere would not work. But I do not want edit this page. My very best wishes (talk) 03:57, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 December 2023
Please add Putin’s full name in Russian next to his birthday. AzXpOmU (talk) 01:56, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: It's already in the note next to his english name. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 02:12, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 December 2023 (2)
Please add Putin’s full name in Russian next to his birthday in the beginning paragraph. AzXpOmU (talk) 01:58, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: See above. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 02:13, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Correction and criticism of the introductory paragraph.
Brezhnev is the longest-serving Russian or Soviet Politician since Joseph Stalin. Also, I haven't noticed in any other Wiki pages of countries' leaders to mention what place did their term(s) take compared to the longest one. There shouldn't be a comparison of a today's politician to one of the past in the introductory paragraph. 2A02:587:4532:FE84:C5A4:3734:268D:8405 (talk) 14:45, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * 1, it states "leader", not just "politican". 2, have you looked here, here, or here? --2001:8003:1C20:8C00:A17F:EE98:406C:4816 (talk) 14:02, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Undue Weight
I may be biased, but this article seems to mainly shows views promoting Putin. Now I find this disgusting. Putin is a horrible dictator. LongGiraffe45 (talk) 03:47, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
 * --ssr (talk) 11:17, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Allegations of plagiarism of his Ph.D in economics
Just thought I would mention that there exists an allegation that at least a significant enough amount of his dissertation for his Ph.D may have been plagiarised. I found this link: https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/putins-dissertation-and-revenge-of-runet/ Does anyone know if this is a credible source of information? Jamesniederle (talk) 21:55, 12 January 2024 (UTC)


 * There was a wikinews article on the topic that links some sources, if you want to go down that route: https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/U.S.A._researchers_report_plagiarism_in_Putin's_dissertation
 * The 5 minutes search I just did myself, however, gives of a funny picture...
 * Your link says:
 * [Igor Danchenko and Clifford Gaddy] had discovered that significant pieces of the theoretical chapter of Putin’s thesis [...] were either copied verbatim or taken with slight modifications from the translation into Russian (prepared for the KGB) of the classic American textbook ‘Strategic Planning and Policy’ by William King and David Cleland.
 * The first Google Search result I get is from Radio Free Europe and says:
 * [Clifford Gaddy] obtained a copy of the book in its Russian translation and began to compare its contents with the dissertation. "I calculate that there are more than 16 pages worth of text taken verbatim from King and Cleland," Gaddy said.
 * Another Radio Free Europe article claims however:
 * "All of [Putin's dissertation] was written by my father alone," Olga Litvinenko tells RFE/RL.
 * Said father, however, says according to the Time:
 * [The blog] Kommersant Vlast, published a cover story, which extensively quoted Clifford Gaddy, one of the Brookings researchers. It also quoted the head of Putin’s alma mater, Vladimir Litvinenko, who said he had “no doubts” Putin wrote the work himself.
 * The Washington Post writes:
 * Washington Post reporter David Hoffman in 2000 asked the institute for a copy of the 218-page thesis but was refused.
 * That Washington Post article also provides a link to Igor Danchenko's and Clifford Gaddy's research results, but the link is dead.
 * So, we have an American researcher who just went to a regular Russian book store to obtain a copy of the KGB(!)-translation of the book that was the alleged source of the plagiarism. This researcher and his colleague also somehow managed to get their hands on Putin's thesis, while other people were refused access to that dissertation. And the link where they published their results is down.
 * I'm not sure, whether opendemocracy (an NGO, iirc) is considered a reliable source by Wikipedia, but I clearly remember that Radio Free Europe is to be treated with caution when it is used as a source (it has a history of unreliability or accusations of propaganda, iirc).
 * The Washington Post is a reliable source, but their own source is inaccessible by now.
 * I didn't check the wikinews sources, but it looks like it might get hard to find good sources on the topic. Nakonana (talk) 16:44, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
 * The Washington Post writes:
 * Washington Post reporter David Hoffman in 2000 asked the institute for a copy of the 218-page thesis but was refused.
 * That Washington Post article also provides a link to Igor Danchenko's and Clifford Gaddy's research results, but the link is dead.
 * So, we have an American researcher who just went to a regular Russian book store to obtain a copy of the KGB(!)-translation of the book that was the alleged source of the plagiarism. This researcher and his colleague also somehow managed to get their hands on Putin's thesis, while other people were refused access to that dissertation. And the link where they published their results is down.
 * I'm not sure, whether opendemocracy (an NGO, iirc) is considered a reliable source by Wikipedia, but I clearly remember that Radio Free Europe is to be treated with caution when it is used as a source (it has a history of unreliability or accusations of propaganda, iirc).
 * The Washington Post is a reliable source, but their own source is inaccessible by now.
 * I didn't check the wikinews sources, but it looks like it might get hard to find good sources on the topic. Nakonana (talk) 16:44, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure, whether opendemocracy (an NGO, iirc) is considered a reliable source by Wikipedia, but I clearly remember that Radio Free Europe is to be treated with caution when it is used as a source (it has a history of unreliability or accusations of propaganda, iirc).
 * The Washington Post is a reliable source, but their own source is inaccessible by now.
 * I didn't check the wikinews sources, but it looks like it might get hard to find good sources on the topic. Nakonana (talk) 16:44, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

This article has been vandalized.
This page has been vandalized. Can somebody who can edit "protected" articles fix this. I understand Putin is controversial and hated by many, but lets not abuse the site. VoteTalk (talk) 20:05, 16 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Can you point out or link to the part? Also, this info page should contain or link to an explanation of how you can formally request a change. RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 20:08, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Tucker Carlson
Should be mentioned.. Orastor (talk) 01:22, 10 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Why? TFD (talk) 01:34, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
 * It is a media frenzy. Orastor (talk) 04:28, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
 * WP:NOTNEWS LegalSmeagolian (talk) 00:46, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but the coverage is about Carlson and reaction to him for conducting the interview. It may belong in his article. TFD (talk) 08:16, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 February 2024
Change Footnote C, which says "In this name that follows Eastern Slavic naming customs, the patronymic is Vladimirovich and the family name is Putin.", with a Family name hatnote for Slavic names, as is the stanard. Felixsj (talk) 15:32, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Please specify what you mean by family name hatnote for Slavic names. GrayStorm(Talk&#124;Contributions) 15:58, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 February 2024 (2)
My edit request is to add more about Navalny’s death BG45 (talk) 19:43, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Jamedeus (talk) 20:04, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 February 2024
I want to expand his early life BG45 (talk) 19:32, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you. GrayStorm(Talk&#124;Contributions) 19:33, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Why can’t I edit? BG45 (talk) 19:35, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
 * The page has been heavily vandalized for a long time, so it is now protected to prevent further vandalism. Only extended confirmed users can edit the page. This could change in the future but for this specific page it's not likely. Jamedeus (talk) 20:11, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Accents
Shouldn't proper accents be added to his name in Russian? It would be Влади́мир Влади́мирович Пу́тин. ImenaOphelia (talk) 16:46, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Proposal to create a section on Putin's long-term process of turning Russia into an authoritarian dictatorship.
I have extended confirmation protection editing rights and relevant sources--I'm just looking for a consensus on creating such a section. I have relevant sources (which I've read), in particular a handful of books by reputable scholars:

1. 2. 3. 4. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 16:50, 2 March 2024 (UTC)


 * FWIW, this article is already incredibly long.
 * Personally, I'd support a small, 1-2 paragraph section on it, linked to a main article on the subject. DarmaniLink (talk) 02:37, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 March 2024
Change the official portrait Владимир Путин (08-03-2024) (cropped).jpg Lorgadh (talk) 13:13, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: the file does not exist. Please check the filename, and check that it is uploaded to English Wikipedia or Wikimedia Commons. Also, please establish consensus to update the photo before making a request. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 14:28, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Age
Why has Wikipedia not included Putin’s age - yes his date of birth is shown but why not his age in brackets as is usual 2A02:C7C:A81D:5000:D9B3:F7B4:611:B6D1 (talk) 18:28, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

New photo
A free public domain of Putin in 2024 was posted if possible you can find it and use it (it is posted by a russian person) Yousifali777 (talk) 14:01, 11 March 2024 (UTC)


 * I also found another one, posted by a Moldovan politician: [[File
 * Владимир Путин (06-03-2024).jpg]]. I think that this could be used as well
 * RAMSES$44932 (talk) 10:33, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes this is the one but let’s wait for an admin to use it Yousifali777 (talk) 10:47, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Pronouciation
How is his name pronounced? I have heard it Pewtin or as Pooteen. Jokem (talk) 04:11, 18 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Current pronunciation in the lead sounds correct to me (transliteration from Cyrillic to Latin alphabet is a bit challenging altogether, so I think keeping it in Cyrillic only might be easier).  Ppt91    talk   20:23, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Article length (WP:TOOBIG)
Per prosize, this article has a word count of over 18,000 words, exceeding guidelines set at WP:TOOBIG. Per review of the archives, this has been discussed before but many years ago. Can we review opportunities to trim or split the article into a more manageable size? Perhaps moving more info over to Political career of Vladimir Putin? Pdubs.94 (talk) 00:44, 20 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Not that I object, but an article about a major world leader of a nuclear-armed state leading a war against another nation who has a warrant out for his arrest should be expected to have a lengthier article than average. 331dot (talk) 09:20, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 March 2024
Please change the tense of the section about the The 2020 Khabarovsk Krai protests to be past tense. The protests ended several years ago. See 2020–2021 Khabarovsk Krai protests Uhoj (talk) 12:38, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

✅ PianoDan (talk) 21:21, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Early life and Putin's CV
According to a detailed account in the Economist on 10 June 2023, Putin's life story until his late teens is completely falsified. The article was published on the occasion of the death of his mother on 31 May 2023, aged 97, who lived as a poor Russian peasant woman in Metechi, Georgia, where Putin was born and went to school. The article is based on research by two Western journalists from 2003 who have soon later been died by the KGB in „accidents“. -- The least that should be said here at Wiki is that there are doubts about Putin's CV. -- I can send the Economist article as a jpg file if required. If you are interested, please leave your address here. 2003:EA:F43:1811:B0E4:D76A:4DC7:2FB8 (talk) 16:47, 30 March 2024 (UTC)