User talk:Antondimak

Welcome!
Hello, Antondimak, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created, such as Μακεδονική επανάσταση του 1878, may not conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines, and may not be retained.

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Proposed deletion of Μακεδονική επανάσταση του 1878


The article Μακεδονική επανάσταση του 1878 has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * This should be deleted and re-established with the English name for en.wikipedia.org.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on |the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. super &beta;&epsilon;&epsilon; cat 00:29, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Translations from Greek WP
Hello and thanks for your translations from the Greek WP! Be advised, however, that when you translate a page, you are required to add the template in the talk page, for reasons of copyright. You should also take some time and read the WP:MOS, as the English WP does things a little different to the Greek one, esp. with regards to the linking of dates. Likewise, when transliterating Greek names, βήτα is usually rendered into V, not B. Cheers, and keep it up! Constantine  ✍  10:13, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

A page you started (Theodosius II of Constantinople) has been reviewed!
Thanks for creating Theodosius II of Constantinople, Antondimak!

Wikipedia editor NearEMPTiness just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

"Thanks for writing and uploading the article. The bibliography and notes are still in Greek language, which will not be understood by most English speaking readers. I propose to translate or delete these."

To reply, leave a comment on NearEMPTiness's talk page.

Learn more about page curation.

Borean languages
Hello, Antondimak. I looked carefully at the graph that you recently added to Borean languages, and I noted that "Demonic" is listed under "Egyptian". I assume that is a typo for "Demotic (Egyptian)"? FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 04:18, 31 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Probably. Antondimak (talk) 11:15, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Do you think you could fix the error? FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 20:53, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't really know how to edit images like that. I'll try though. Antondimak (talk) 11:31, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Konstantinos Doumpiotis


The article Konstantinos Doumpiotis has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern:
 * Totally unsourced

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. — S Marshall T/C 00:20, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

It has a source. Antondimak (talk) 12:51, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Petros Hatzitasis revert
You are probably right; I am stumbling around trying to improve these but I am stumbling around. I am working on the list of X2 articles at Administrators%27_noticeboard/CXT/Pages_to_review, where I found it. From the rest of your user page it looks like you have other articles on that list; I know that there is a lot of stuff there about Greek patriarchs and Macedonian fighters. Now that I look, you are the author of Georgios Modis; I just removed kai from between two titles in Greek in that article. Mostly however my impression is that these articles are not bad work, not ideal perhaps but what is, and definitely better than nothing; but yes, I am clueless in the topic.

So please let me help you. First of all you are no doubt correct about the revert; that's fine. But you should know that anything that is still on the list on June 6 will be summarily deleted. If you want to keep these articles you should go through the list and use strike tags on the titles of the articles you want kept. I encourage you to do so as they look like good work to me that doesn't need all that much, but the work required for *me* to learn what I need to polish them is so high I have not done that myself (and there are a lot of other articles I am better able to take responsibility for).

So. Cross the articles off the list if you want to keep them. They are caught up in a discussion of the usefulness of machine translation and were identified as machine translation. I am in this discussion because I use machine translation (with other languages than Greek). Once you cross them off the best thing you can do to prevent other challenges on some other basis than "machine translation" is to add references where they are missing. In some cases also, having read a few, the context is unclear -- for example I found a navbar for a committee from the WW2 period and added it to all the bios whose names were on it, but I still don't really know what that committee was exactly, and likely the greek articles these bio were translated from don't make it clear because if you speak Greek you already know (?) That's my theory anyway; I have run into this in French Spanish and Portuguese, where I usually play.

Incidentally, a translation from another language, for complicated legal reasons, (some people will say must) have a translated template on the talk page: is the syntax, as I recall. This gives the article a provenance and gives you cover for some of the translated article's flaws from the point of view of the english wikipedia; no references or weak references for example. Affixing it means that you are attesting that the article is a representation of *this version* of the translated article, which may of course then diverge considerably from the state it was in when you translated it. Hope that helps and please feel free to ask me any questions that you may have, such as where to get the history version. Elinruby (talk) 23:44, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
 * should*

How can I find my articles in there? Do I have to look at all 3602? Also how should I justify it? Do I just write that it isn't machine translation? Antondimak (talk) 10:49, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

it's enough to say you don't think the translation is a problem. There will be an expectation that in what you strike will deal with any tags (like references) -- that is why I don't want to do them myself, plus I know nothing, nada, about the subject matter -- but I see you are continuing to work on these articles so yeah, get them off the list then continue doing what you were doing, working on the articles. Although feel please do feel free to do a couple of assessments while you are there if you want. I don't suppose you speak portuguese? or chinese or arabic? Feel free to ask any questions; I plan to be in wikipedia for several hours, I've been pretty absent for a few days Elinruby (talk) 02:05, 22 May 2017 (UTC) you're doing it right. Just be ready to defend anything that is a translation of something that needed some work, or whatever. You might want to watch that page, in case. Thanks for getting those, that was a group I had identified as pretty good work about to get deleted. Elinruby (talk) 02:23, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Can I interest you?
If you like. If you don't, that is also fine. I did however notice that you took off a painting and I do have a bunch of those. If you struck that article about a painting because you like the painting and want to improve the article, that's fantastic. It's a beautiful painting and I think that was enough to get me to work on the article as well. However if that is the case I have to warn you that I found some really strange translation so ask you to carefully check the facts of the article as you work on it. Peace out. Elinruby (talk) 12:26, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Anastasios Pehion
Hello, you may still be planning to do so, but can you please add sources to this article? It looks like its source was another Wiki - if so, please put this is the article, but other Wikipedias are specifically mentioned at WP:RELIABLESOURCES as not reliable. Thanks, Boleyn (talk) 18:54, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I am indeed planning to add sources as I will be translating the rest of the article. Antondimak (talk) 21:39, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

Keraia
Please note that the correct diacritic is keraia. --Omnipaedista (talk) 10:39, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

Merge conflicts
Hey there. Please be careful with your edits on the talk pages, because you remove other people's comments due to merge conflicts. I don't know is 2017 wikitext editor warn you in case of conflicts. Thank you for your understanding. -- Despotak (talk) 21:01, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
 * It does notify occasionally in which case I copy my comment, cancel the edit, reload the page and post it again so it doesn't erase anything, but last time I did that it did anyway for some reason. So I reposted what I accidentally deleted only to, apparently, delete more comments in that same edit... (and it didn't notify me). Thank you for informing me and excuse me for any disruption I may have caused. Antondimak (talk) 21:07, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

DYK for Celebration of the Greek Revolution
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:01, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Moving categories
Hello, please don't move category schemes by manually creating a new category page under your desired new name and then changing the category links in the articles, as you did in your move of Category:Macedonian awards to Category:North Macedonian awards. This breaks the page histories and makes things difficult to reconstruct. Renamings of categories should always be done via listing them at WP:CfD. Thanks, – Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:14, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you for clarifying. --Antondimak (talk) 19:16, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Also, please bear in mind that the entries in that particular category don't fall under the rules for "state-related entities", so there isn't actually an actionable consensus to change the name as you did. Please be careful about such issues. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:22, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I believe "awards" in this instance are state-related. They aren't an general concept related to Macedonian culture, but they are specifically "of the state", and are granted by it. In the other cases it was a noun frase (Macedonia-->North Macedonia), and that was decided even before the RFC. --Antondimak (talk) 19:34, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Didn't you look at the actual articles inside it? Only the subcategory Orders, decorations, and medals of North Macedonia‎ is state-related; apart from that the cat contains a literary festival, a church medal, a beauty competition and a "footballer of the year" title. None of these is a state institution. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:28, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I did look at the subcategories. "Macedonian literary awards" refer not to awards in literature written in the Macedonian language, but to literature awards in North Macedonia. The "Macedonian footballer of the year" doesn't refer to the footballer that is ethnically Macedonian, but to the one that is from North Macedonia, therefore excludes Macedonian diaspora but includes Macedonian Albanians, same for "Miss Macedonia". The "Order of the Holy Macedonian Cross" isn't related to the state or the ethnic group, but to the church, and if I had to choose I would say it tends more to the side of the state. All in all, I moved the category (with a process which I now understand is wrong), as out of the five subcategories in it one definitely was state-related, three were most probably state-related, and one slightly state-related, so as a whole it definitely belonged to that area. Notice I didn't rename any of the subcategories themselves, only the wider category which I didn't think it would be debatable to rename. --Antondimak (talk) 11:26, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but you really need to look up again what "state-related" means in the Prespa context. It doesn't mean "expressions referring to the state". It means "institutions established by law and/or financed by the state". Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:08, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
 * That's not what we used as "state-related" in the RFC though. We counted media in cases such as these using "North Macedonian" as state-related. --Antondimak (talk) 15:19, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Then you counted wrong. The wording of the RfC section was about "referring to state-associated entities, including governmental organisations and official ranks, as well as other public entities from North Macedonia as specified in Prespa agreement". Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:15, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
 * It wasn't just me. Actually I didn't contribute that much at this part, I ended putting under 10% of the links. If that's not how it should be counted there was a systemic problem that need to be addressed. --Antondimak (talk) 17:28, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thank you very much! I was glad to help and to participate in the process. Despite all the tensity, I think everyone managed to cooperate amicably, and we ended up with a pretty thorough and balanced consensus, considering the importance of the topic. So I would also like to return the compliment to you and to everyone else that contributed. --Antondimak (talk) 19:50, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Minor
Hi! Even if I disagree about the necessity of writing out the full RoM name, I am fine with your edits to Macedonia at the 1996 Summer Olympics and Macedonia at the 2008 Summer Olympics. What I am not so happy about, is that you are marking these edits as "Minor". Please read carefully WP:MINOR. Unless you consider my edits as vandalism (and I hope not), your partly reverts of my edits are definitely not minor. Please do not mark any edits as minor unless they are covered by the description in the section "When to mark as minor changes". Regards! --T*U (talk) 15:22, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Oh sorry, I counted the originals as minor, because they were just a change in formatting, and forgot not to do that when changing it back. --Antondimak (talk) 18:12, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Macedonian National Theatre adjective
Dear, Please visit the following link containing all adjectival changes to institutions. https://vlada.mk/sites/default/files/dokumenti/lista_na_institucii_so_nov_naziv_-_republika_severna_makedonija.pdf

Under 28) you can clearly see the Macedonian National Theatre has kept the adjective. No changes have been made due to the significance of the Theatre to the cultural heritage of the Macedonians.

Regards,


 * Alright then. That was a sneaky way to bypass the agreement. --Antondimak (talk) 21:27, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Do you happen to know why the Macedonian Academy of Sciences and Arts isn't mentioned? It's a state entity, isn't it? --Antondimak (talk) 21:34, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Macedonian Radio Television
Hello there. It seems you have taken quite the interest in renaming Macedonian Radio Television when such a renaming hasn't occurred. Repeated edits like these without providing credible sources that these name changes have occurred are technically vandalism. If you have some kind of other motive for renaming these articles, please put them aside and respect that Wikipedia functions by citing accurate information from credible sources. Pickette (talk) 21:09, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
 * There was a discussion about this renaming a while back in the "North Macedonia" talk page. I have now also put the source provided there in the article. I reverted a change which happened without discussion, and which to me seems wrong. --Antondimak (talk) 08:02, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Le Roy engloys (July 15)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Calliopejen1 was:

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Calliopejen1 (talk) 17:57, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Commenting your category changes
Hi, specially on WP:BLP articles, it'd be much appreciated if you'd comment your category changes in a little more detail, e.g. "specialising category" – the explanation need not be long but it does need to be clear. The article in question is regularly being messed about by nationalists trying to make a point so if you don't want to be mixed up with such folk and have your edits regularly reverted, please take care to explain your edits. All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 13:01, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I've been restructuring the whole "Greek people by location" category and its subcategories, so entailed a lot of minor edits, so I haven't been commenting the changes unless they are especially confusing, but if it's going to help I'll do so more often. --Antondimak (talk) 13:06, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Independent Group of Anogreia
You're right! :D It was along with Michalis Xilouris. Pavlos1988 (talk) 21:38, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Georgios Peltekis moved to draftspace
An article you recently created, Georgios Peltekis, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of " " before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. JJP...MASTER![talk to] JJP... master? 16:22, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Georgios Peltekis (December 29)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by Pahunkat were:

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Pahunkat (talk) 16:50, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

Efi Thodi
We have to follow Wikipedia, which tells me Agrafa (municipality) now includes Vrangiana. If you think that is wrong you need to edit the article. Rathfelder (talk) 16:09, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
 * This is a different village under the same name. The article says Vrangiana, Karditsa. Karditsa and Agrafa are different places. I will repost the government document showing the village of Vrangiana under the municipality (now named municipal unit) of Acheloos in the article's talk page. --Antondimak (talk) 16:15, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
 * You need to edit the articles, not just post documents. But regardless none of these places have enough articles to justify a category of "People from".  Rathfelder (talk) 16:22, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
 * There is no need to edit the article. It says she's from Vrangiana, Karditsa, and that's what it's been saying for a long time. This is more than enough specification, since the other Vrangiana isn't in Karditsa. You have twice challenged that Vrangiana is in Acheloos, confusing it with another village under the same name. I provided the document both times to prove the geography, and that there are two villages under this name. These types of categories (municipal units) are constantly expanding. Category:People from Almyros (municipality), which was considered for merging with its single sub-category last time, now has 4 subcategories, one of them with 5 articles, which you told me was the general threshold. SMALLCAT says the categories have to be static. Deleting them means that I will just have to recreate them soon after when there will be enough articles. The reason SMALLCAT says that is to avoid deletions exactly such as this one. --Antondimak (talk) 16:32, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
 * By the way, to understand why I'm now suspicious, William Allen Simpson claims to just haven't seen the word "Vrangiana", believing the template only wrote Karditsa. He claimed the same for many articles in other categories as he systematically removed their members and then tagged them as empty. --Antondimak (talk) 16:37, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
 * The only mention of Vrangiana in the encyclopedia says it is in Agrafa (municipality). If you say there is another one you had better write an article about it.  The reference says she comes from  Mikra Vragkiana. But a much better strategy would be to put the articles into regional categories until there are enough to break down into individual municipalities.   Rathfelder (talk) 21:04, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
 * So we need an article for every little village in Greece just so we can categorise biographies properly? The article clearly states Vrangiana, Karditsa. Since Agrafa and Karditsa are in different areas, it's clear that it isn't referring to that. Just so this doesn't turn up again, I will make a disambiguation page. The strategy you are suggesting would entail a lot more unnecessary work. Trust me, I categorised all those thousands of articles, and keep the tree updated. Because of cases such as this one, it isn't easy to immediately know where a person is from just from a glance at the article, since it could refer to a smaller village or a place whose name is used for numerous other areas (both true in this case). This means that every time I add an article to a category, I will have to recheck all the articles in said category to see if a subcategory became viable. This increases the complexity of the update algorithm, and given the difficulty in checking each article that I described, this translates into a significant real-time cost. Since I'm doing this manually, this simply isn't possible. Again, the caveat in WP:SMALLCAT seems to exist exactly for cases like this. --Antondimak (talk) 21:44, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
 * By the way the two Vrangiana are written differently in Greek, it's only the romanisation that gives them the exact same name. --Antondimak (talk) 21:57, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
 * We dont want categories of People from... places which are too insignificant to have an article. Rathfelder (talk) 09:41, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree. We shouldn't have a category for people from Vrangiana, and I never claimed that. The village is just part of the wider region of which we have a category. --Antondimak (talk) 09:43, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Please back me up here what's happening is ridiculous. --Antondimak (talk) 07:44, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Please do not lie about me, especially behind my back. I've never written that I've "just haven't seen the word "Vrangiana"". There are/were no WP:RS listed, therefore it was never considered. There was a wikilinked higher order location, and I've tried that. You've repeatedly reverted. Now it is up for deletion entirely. Goodbye. William Allen Simpson (talk) 00:15, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I have no idea why you do this, but I did not lie. If you say I misunderstood your reason (Was I just supposed to understand that you did see the word but ignored it because it wasn't linked? That's essentially the same as what I said anyway.), fine, but just look at your at you edit history from that day and how you systematically removed articles from categories like this claiming different reasons each time and then tagging the categories you turned empty for deletion. I in good faith reverted your disruptive edits providing the reason, and suddenly I'm the party at fault for reverting. Look at the article in question, it's for some reason constantly being incorrectly edited, and I just fix it. --Antondimak (talk) 07:31, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Μετονομασία κατηγοριών
Καλησπέρα σας. Παρατήρησα ότι μερικές κατηγορίες που αφορούν την περιφερειακή ενότητα Σερρών έχουν ονομασία που μπορεί να παραπλανήσει τους αναγνώστες. Για παράδειγμα η People from Skoutari που αφορά την δημοτική ενότητα Σκουτάρεως του δήμου Σερρών και όχι τον οικισμό του Σκουτάρεως. Ή και η People from Nea Zichni που αφορά ανθρώπους από τον δήμο Νέας Ζίχνης και όχι από τον οικισμό της Νέας Ζίχνης. Μπορείτε να με παραπέμψετε σε κάποιον διαχειριστή ώστε να υποβάλλω αίτηση για το πρόβλημα; Ευχαριστώ πολύ. BILL1 (talk) 23:55, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Καλησπέρα. Οι κατηγορίες αφορούν καποδιστριακούς δήμους (νυν δημοτικές ενότητες), όχι καλλικρατικούς, άρα δεν υπάρχει τόση μεγάλη διαφορά (δεν θα μπει κάποιος από την Αλιστράτη στην κατηγορία της Νέας Ζίχνης, παρόλο που είναι στον ίδιο καλλικρατικό δήμο). Μικρότερες κατηγορίες με βάση τον οικισμό δεν μπορούν να δημιουργηθούν, λόγω έλλειψης άρθρων, αλλα υποθέτω πως εννοείτε να γίνει μετωνομασία και να μετατραπεί το όνομα για παράδειγμα σε «People from Nea Zichni (municipal unit)».
 * Πολλές φορές οι δημοτικές ενότητες αποτελούνται από οικισμούς οι οποίοι σήμερα έχουν συγχωνευθεί, λόγω της διεύρυνσης της κεντρικής πόλης, και αυτός είναι ένας λόγος να μην γίνει μετωνομασία, αν και θα μπορούσε να γίνει μια συζήτηση επί του θέματος και να βρεθεί λύση. Σε κάθε περίπωση, αυτήν την στιγμή είναι λίγο «λεπτό» το ζήτημα, γιατί εν μέρει λόγω παρανοήσεων (έχει ειπωθεί πως οι νομοί αποτελούν μητροπολιτικές περιοχές, και πως οι περιφέρειες αποτελούν συνοικίες (λογικά μέσω λανθασμένης μετάφρασης του «periphery»)) και λόγω (προσωρινής, που έχει θεωρηθεί μόνιμη) έλλειψης άρθρων, υπάρχει η πρόταση να διαγραφούν όλες αυτές οι κατηγορίες, να γίνεται κατηγοριοποίηση μόνο στο επίπεδο των περιφερειών, η οποία λόγω έλλειψης συμμετοχής (είμαι ο μόνο Έλληνας στην συζήτηση και αν δεν έρθει άλλος θα τα παρατήσω) μάλλον θα περάσει.
 * Συζήτηση για την διαγραφή όλων των κατηγοριών γίνεται εδώ, οδηγίες για το πώς να κάνετε αίτηση για μετωνομασία (αν και μάλλον θα επέτεινε το χάος αυτήν την στιγμή) μπορείτε να βρείτε εδώ. --Antondimak (talk) 09:33, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Μόλις παρατήρησα πως η κατηγορία της Νέας Ζίχνης αναφέρεται στον καλλικρατικό δήμο, και είναι ονομασμένη διαφορετικά από τις άλλες κατηγορίες τύπου «Άνθρωποι από <μέρος στην Ελλάδα>». Όταν θα υπάρξει βιογραφικό άρθρο για κάποιον από τον οικισμό της Νέας Ζίχνης, που θα γίνει αργά ή γρήγορα, θα φτιαχτεί νέα κατηγορία «People from Nea Zichni (municipality)» για να την αντικαταστήσει, και η «People from Nea Zichni» θα αναφέρεται πια στον καποδιστριακό δήμο, τουλάχιστον αν δεν περάσουν οι πρωτάσεις για διαγραφή των κατηγοριών. --08:09, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Antondimak δεν γνώριζα πως υπάρχει σχετική συζήτηση σε εξέλιξη, ενδιαφέρομαι πολύ για το θέμα και θεωρώ πολύ λάθος το να υπάρχουν κατηγορίες μόνο για τις περιφέρειες. Προσωπικά δεν θεωρώ τόσο συχνό το φαινόμενο να απορροφούνται οικισμοί δημοτικών ενοτήτων από τις τοπικές κωμοπόλεις/πόλεις, ωστόσο έτσι κι αλλιώς δεν νομίζω ότι υπάρχουν λήμματα για ανθρώπους που κατάγονται από τέτοιες περιοχές. Όπως και να 'χει ευχαριστώ θερμά για την ενημέρωση επί του θέματος. BILL1 (talk) 15:21, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

About Categories_for_discussion/Log/2021_February_20
Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you tried to give Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2021_February_20 a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into Category:People from Neo Sidirochori. This is known as a "cut-and-paste move", and it is undesirable because it splits the page history, which is legally required for attribution. Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.

In most cases, once your account is four days old and has ten edits, you should be able to move an article yourself using the "Move" tab at the top of the page (the tab may be hidden in a dropdown menu for you). This both preserves the page history intact and automatically creates a redirect from the old title to the new. If you cannot perform a particular page move yourself this way (e.g. because a page already exists at the target title), please follow the instructions at requested moves to have it moved by someone else. Also, if there are any other pages that you moved by copying and pasting, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at Requests for history merge. Thank you. Asmodea Oaktree (talk) 14:27, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi. I definitely didn't deliberately try to move Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2021_February_20 to Category:People from Neo Sidirochori. Did I do something weird accidentally? --Antondimak (talk) 18:20, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Category:People from Kallieis has been nominated for merging
Category:People from Kallieis has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:44, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Konstantinos Makris


The article Konstantinos Makris has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern: "No indication of notability, can't find enough in-depth coverage to meet GNG."

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.  Onel 5969  TT me 18:24, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Evangelos Spanos moved to draftspace
An article you recently created, Evangelos Spanos, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of " " before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page.  Onel 5969  TT me 14:08, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Why? --Antondimak (talk) 14:12, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Stergios Spanos moved to draftspace
An article you recently created, Stergios Spanos, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of " " before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page.  Onel 5969  TT me 14:09, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Konstantinos Makris moved to draftspace
An article you recently created, Konstantinos Makris, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of " " before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Mccapra (talk) 08:56, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Georgios Peltekis (April 28)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by CommanderWaterford was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Georgios Peltekis and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Georgios Peltekis, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "Db-g7" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
 * If you do not make any further changes to your draft, in 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
 * If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Georgios_Peltekis Articles for creation help desk], on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:CommanderWaterford&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Georgios_Peltekis reviewer's talk page] or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

CommanderWaterford (talk) 13:40, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi
Hello neighbor, good day, you always describe lame osman as Greek and Armenian genocide and this bothers me... I know the massacres of lame osman, there is even a monument for the Greeks in Giresunda around Tirebolu, my only request from you is to delete that genocide expression in the title, because it is such a great person. I feel very uncomfortable being presented so stupidly. thanks Alexander Leone (talk) 16:37, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Hello neighbour, have a nice day as well.
 * If I understand correctly, you are asking for me to remove any mentions of the Greek and Armenian genocides, of which this person was a key perpetrator, from his article. I am afraid that I cannot do that, as I would be removing meaningful information from the article, which would be considered vandalism. --Antondimak (talk) 20:53, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Maria Spanou


Hello, Antondimak. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Maria Spanou".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. If you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz Read! Talk! 16:39, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Stergios Spanos


Hello, Antondimak. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Stergios Spanos".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. If you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz Read! Talk! 16:41, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Evangelos Spanos


Hello, Antondimak. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Evangelos Spanos".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. If you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz Read! Talk! 20:46, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Category:People from Istanbul by occupation
There are thousands of categories like this. They are for people whose notability is linked to their work, and their work is linked to a place, as Ecumenical Patriarchs of Constantinople clearly are. Rathfelder (talk) 08:27, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * This is mixing the categories a bit. It's fine if they are included like that, but in this case some subcategories aren't really subcategories and shouldn't be removed as such. Some Ecumenical Patriarchs are actually from Istanbul, while others aren't. --Antondimak (talk) 09:14, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Vitalis Pasha


Hello, Antondimak. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Vitalis Pasha".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. If you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz Read! Talk! 20:08, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Greek footballers
Hello. Please do not remove the parent category Greek footballers from the players' pages. Per established consensus, a primary nationality category is mandatory for all football players, regardless of any subcategories they may be in as well. All such removals that you did will have to be undone. Thank you. -- BlameRuiner (talk) 06:33, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * But the subcategories also imply nationality in this case. --Antondimak (talk) 06:35, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * No, Blameruiner is correct - the main category always remains in place, it is non-diffusing. I have reverted a few of your edits, please self-revert the rest. GiantSnowman 08:08, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I will, but can you please give me a link to the discussion so I can see exactly what the policy is so I know in the future? --Antondimak (talk) 08:16, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * WP:ALLINCLUDED. GiantSnowman 08:31, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * That's just the definition of non-diffusing subcategories, which this specific one wasn't marked as. What's the reason that it is non-diffusing? --Antondimak (talk) 08:48, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started
Hello, Antondimak. Thank you for creating Filotheos Theodoropoulos. User:Idoghor Melody, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with. Please remember to sign your reply with ~. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

 Comr Melody Idoghor  (talk)  14:56, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I know it needs improvement still, that's why I labelled it a stub. I don't however see the problem with the citations. They completely back up the article's currently very minimal content, and the sources are exactly where you would expect to get this kind of information from (two official websites of the Church of Greece and a news website specialising in church matters). --Antondimak (talk) 15:30, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

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RfC at Template:Greeks
Thank you for your participation. Since I think you meant to include the Aromanians in the template, you might want to change your vote to "Weak oppose removal". The question is (inappropriately) "Should the Aromanians be included?", thus the way your vote is currently worded it appears you oppose inclusion. Thanks, Khirurg (talk) 00:24, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Alright, will do. The wording is indeed a bit confusing. --Antondimak (talk) 17:49, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Ethinikiparataxi logo.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Ethinikiparataxi logo.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --Minorax &laquo;&brvbar;talk&brvbar;&raquo; 07:02, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Copyright problem on 2022 Greek wiretapping scandal
Content you added to the above article appears to have been copied from https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2014_2019/plmrep/COMMITTEES/PEGA/RD/2023/01-24/1269773EN.pdf, which is not released under a compatible license. Copying text directly from a source is a violation of Wikipedia's copyright policy. Unfortunately, for copyright reasons, the content had to be removed. Please let me know if you have any questions. — Diannaa (talk) 13:46, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The European Parliament, which is an official organ of the EU, doesn't release the public records of its decisions under a compatible license? --Antondimak (talk) 14:05, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * In any case, can I have the original wiki code that was deleted so that I can edit it? I believe there is a way to have access to deleted page history. --Antondimak (talk) 14:07, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Antondimak. You can review their copyright policy at https://www.europarl.europa.eu/legal-notice/en/, which says their content is copyright and allows use "provided that the entire item is reproduced". That's not a compatible license, because our license does allow us to edit the text in any way we see fit.I removed the ten recommendations; you can get this info from page 11 of the source document. — Diannaa (talk) 14:23, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I had made some small specific changes to the text in order for it to be more easily understandable in conjunction with the rest of the article, which I don't exactly remember. Anyway, I will look it over again while modifying it enough to get around the copyright issues, it's not that big of a deal. Thanks. --Antondimak (talk) 14:28, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * It needs to be completely rewritten in your own words, not just tweeked enough to fool the automated tools. — Diannaa (talk) 19:15, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Removal of the distribution of Bulgarian language
Hey can I ask why you removed the Bulgarian language map? And what do you mean they have no source for two years? Can you give me a proper explanation? I just don't understand. I'm not here to offend you btw. Qhairun (talk) 11:39, 1 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Certainly. As you can see, the image had the template " ",, in its description. Which means that an editor thought in April 2021 that this image contained content which should be sourced, but for which no reference has been provided. I stumbled across it now and it seemed dubious to me (claiming that Bulgarian is spoken by the majority in areas around Izmir for example). Since nobody had provided a source in two years, I went ahead and removed it, as content on Wikipedia should contain citations, and the personal knowledge of the editors themselves isn't considered a valid source. Since you have shown interest, if you happen to know of a source you could add it and the image could stay, otherwise I will unfortunately have to remove it again, until another verifiable one is available to replace it. -- Antondimak (talk) 14:06, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Veria
Hello. Can you show me a policy, convention or recommendation showing that we ought to apply this practice ? There is no person other than Nicea in Category:People from Veria that isn't specifically from Veria, except Liolios Xirolivaditis, an article to which you added the category in the first place as well. Kato Vermio and Veria don't even border each other and are in fact 20 km away from each other. It is extremely counterintuitive. If for some reason Kato Vermio was to be included in a category about Veria it should at the very least be a category named accordingly, for example Category:People from Veria (municipal unit). I just don't see why should settlements separate from Veria be included under Veria. This does not produce any kind of practical benefit for anyone. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 09:52, 29 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The category pages have recently been changed and I haven't yet gotten the time to get around to it because of the large workload. You can see that these categories were under "People by municipal unit in Greece", before the recent changed. I have added the person you named as I have added most people from every place in Greece because I have essentially created this category tree, and used this convention, for various reasons. There was some conflict a few years ago that led to the erasing of categories for smaller municipal units, but ones like Veria remained. On average, the municipal unit is the lowest meaningful distinction that is robust enough for a category tree of this scale, covering thousands of years of history where settlements have slightly moved, merged or split, that is also not agnostic to local peculiarities, due to how the borders were drawn (as opposed to modern municipalities). Synchronically, on average it usually works as a sort of "urban area" (also in the countryside), where a person may be born in a settlement, work in the one right next to it, have half of his family in another one, go to school to another, etc.. --Antondimak (talk) 11:53, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
 * But is this written down somewhere, in a policy or in a discussion or something? It seems arbitrary. I will need something else to accept someone from one place being included into the category of another place. I've seen some villages dependant on larger cities being included with these cities, however this is usually, if not in all cases, when they belong to the same municipality. This is not the case for Kato Vermio as the Veria municipal unit is further divided into smaller municipalities and the municipality of Veria does not include it. I would agree with the change if it did. Could we resolve this by having a category Category:People from Veria (municipal unit)? Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 17:15, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I am talking about the subdivisions showed here . It looks like municipal units are divided into municipalities and then into "districts". I was arguing we should follow the administrative division of the lowest level ("districts"). Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 17:19, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Municipalities are larger than municipal units. Dividing by community/district creates a lot of practical problems on a large scale due to not having the "nice qualities" that municipal units have as described above. It would also mean that many categories wouldn't be populated enough to exist. --Antondimak (talk) 13:17, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
 * You can see how the whole category tree is structured, and other similar examples like the one we are discussing being categorised like that. "People from Veria" is "People from Veria (municipal unit)". I haven't gotten the time to correct it yet but you can see that all such categories in the tree (apart from some that were recently arbitrarily moved and I will be taking care of, like this one), are in the "People by municipal unit in Greece" category. There is also a higher level "People by municipality in Greece" category. When we have municipality categories, they are named "People from X (municipality)", municipal unit categories are named "People from X" for simplicity. This is also the approach used for many other countries' category trees, such as Turkey's. --Antondimak (talk) 13:13, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

August 2023
Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war; read about how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

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 * I deliberately did not change any content. I just put a tag requesting clarification on unsourced content because I couldn't understand what it was trying to say, and the original editor keeps removing the tag with no clarification. --Antondimak (talk) 17:15, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Nomination of Ioannis Nakitsas for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Ioannis Nakitsas is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Ioannis Nakitsas until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 15:33, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Aristeidis Gournelis


A tag has been placed on Aristeidis Gournelis requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a real person or group of people that does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the. iMahesh ( talk ) 05:34, 21 September 2023 (UTC)


 * That was a bit fast. I had no time to see the message before it was deleted. --Antondimak (talk) 07:32, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

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Category:Rowers by city or town in Greece has been nominated for renaming
Category:Rowers by city or town in Greece has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 23:08, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:People from Tilos


A tag has been placed on Category:People from Tilos indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 01:02, 17 June 2024 (UTC)


 * If this category is still empty in 7 days, it will be deleted. Whatever article it used to contain has been deleted, not removed. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 20:23, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * How can you see that? Antondimak (talk) 20:52, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Category:Athletes by location in Greece has been nominated for merging
Category:Athletes by location in Greece has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Omnis Scientia (talk) 08:52, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Category:Water polo players by location in Greece has been nominated for merging
Category:Water polo players by location in Greece has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Omnis Scientia (talk) 18:58, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Category:Volleyball players by location in Greece has been nominated for merging
Category:Volleyball players by location in Greece has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Omnis Scientia (talk) 18:58, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Category:Basketball players by location in Greece has been nominated for merging
Category:Basketball players by location in Greece has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Omnis Scientia (talk) 18:59, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Category:Footballers by location in Greece has been nominated for deletion
Category:Footballers by location in Greece has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Omnis Scientia (talk) 18:59, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Category:Gymnasts by location in Greece has been nominated for merging
Category:Gymnasts by location in Greece has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Omnis Scientia (talk) 18:59, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Category:Rowers by location in Greece has been nominated for merging
Category:Rowers by location in Greece has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Omnis Scientia (talk) 18:59, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Category:Sailors (sport) by location in Greece has been nominated for merging
Category:Sailors (sport) by location in Greece has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Omnis Scientia (talk) 19:00, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Category:Swimmers by location in Greece has been nominated for merging
Category:Swimmers by location in Greece has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Omnis Scientia (talk) 19:01, 17 June 2024 (UTC)