User talk:Bishonen/Archive 4

The penis mightier than the sword
There was no double entendre, really. So far as I can tell, Aaron had suggested that the creation of a user box, and adding it, that said X user is an opponent of Kelly Martin's was an example of uncivil editing. However, the diff showed only a last-edit. Someone replied, apparently and oddly, to that, seeing a double entendre that at least escapes me (and I defy you to find a more sophomoric and dirty minded thinker who can type). Aaron still didn't reply, when he probably should have, and so he replied to you in the "What was I thinking." "What was I thinking" was an answer and explanation: he'd gotten involved in the blocking of the person who had created the anti-Kelly-Martin box (or commented on it, when he shouldn't have or something). Both of the boxes are up at TFD, I believe. At any rate, there was no innuendo, and I think Aaron was worried about the impression you'd gotten. (You really should read FH just to know what the fuss is about. You'll find it a mixture of hilarity and style and erotica, I imagine.)  Geogre 03:42, 8 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Interesting: there is an allusion to Shamela in Fanny Hill, where Fanny refers to her "vartue." The edition I just got has a 2001 preface, where the editor wants to locate it in constructions of the feminine (yawn) and, somewhat, McKeon's categories of empiricist and skeptic::Whig and Tory, putting Cleland in the Bolingbroke/Pope camp.  Cleland's father, as I'm sure you know, was Pope's friend.  I agree that the novel is somewhat satirical, but you just can't be stupid and ignore the fact that it's also pornography.  Geogre 18:37, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I can. Also interesting: did you like the poetic vandalism on your page? Bishonen | talk 20:23, 10 January 2006 (UTC).

Of course I did. I've been waiting for a chance to talk to you -- even going so far as to check in on IRC several times -- to tell you so. There are just so many interesting things on my user talk page these days that I thought you might have said something to me, and then I'd get to tell you that I enjoyed the poem. (You couldn't ignore the pornographic element, I bet. It's one of those things, though, where it's amazing that one cannot save the book from smut unless one ignores it or admit its smuttiness without ignoring the satirical side of it.)  Geogre 21:23, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

I think you've earned this
As one of the (no doubt many, many) users who have had your user talk watchlisted for the past week-or-so, I thought I ought to make something for you. I didn't know where you'd want it, so I've put it here until you decide whether to stick it on your userpage.

Thanks for all you do. -- keep sleep ing   quit your job!   slack off!  04:44, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * You created that honey for me? I'm hugely flattered, thank you so much! Wow! I'm really sorry now that I'm such an unassuming person that I stick all my very numerous awards away on an awards subpage that doesn't hit anybody in the eye. A shame, but it can't be helped. Thanks again and keep sleeping, it's winter! (At least it is where I am.) Bishonen | talk 12:30, 8 January 2006 (UTC).

Bishonen
Bishonen nearly deleted my very first article and edit, but didn't. I think, though, that Bishonen is doing a great job here regardless of that first impression and I check back occasionaly for an idea of what to do on wikipedia. Keep up the good work and I hope to see you around. DVD+ R/W 21:58, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks, David. I nominated Coop Himmelb(l)au for deletion, right? Sorry about that. :P If you check back on this page from time to time, you must be getting a fairly surrealist idea of what to do on wiki. The first thing I recommend is getting some ... unusual friends like I've got, to post oddness on your page. Trust me, all else will follow. :-) Unusual enemies are good too. Hope you're enjoying the many strange aspects of the wiki! Bishonen | talk 23:03, 8 January 2006 (UTC).

Image stuff
Are you up to date with how enwiki handles images these days? I would like to find someone more knowledgeble than me to have a look at Image:Nariyama2.gif and Image:Nariyama.jpg. See also User talk:Tonifer and User talk:Habj. / Habj 02:24, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi there, Habj. En.wiki is now extremely strict about image copyright. One of those two babies has the kind of tag that'll get it deleted, and the other has no tag at all. Both of them could get deleted any minute. You'd better advise your friend to describe the situation on the image description page, with URLs to where he got them and where he's written off to. I mean right now. He can't wait till he gets a response to the query he sent off, he needs to say that he's waiting for it. Fortunately, it doesn't sound as if it would be an actual disaster if they did get deleted; presumably he could easily upload them again (with lots of info and proper tags). Still, it's simpler to avoid that. Best, Bishonen | talk 11:21, 10 January 2006 (UTC).

Personal Attacks
Calling logical wording "stilted" is more impolite and more a personal attack than is calling 'good-faith' corruption "vandalism". Further, there is an intrinsic asymmetry in what is permitted of each of us because the aggression began with you and because you are simply wrong. I simply didn't and now moreso don't expect you to get that, which is why I didn't bother to labor such issues and won't much labor them here, for much the same reason that I don't pour medicine down the throat of a corpse. Wikipedia will allow you to be wrong, abated only as your energy level flags. Please be content with that power. &mdash;the preceding unsigned comment is by Gamahucheur (talk &bull; contribs) 03:36, January 10, 2006 (UTC)
 * You're mistaken. Calling wording "stilted" isn't a personal attack at all; calling good-faith editing "vandalism" is. The first is a (mild) criticism of a presumably unintended stylistic effect, while the second goes to intent, and thereby attacks the person. Please discuss the edit, not the editor. You seem to refer to some pre-history between us, where I initiated "aggression" and you refrained from laboring things because I wouldn't get them anyway...? I'm perplexed. Have we met before I posted on your page? Ever edited the same article? Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else. I'm Bishonen. Btw please note that you can sign posts on talkpages by typing four tildes, like this: ~ . That will convert automagically to your username and a timestamp. Thank you. Bishonen | talk 04:08, 10 January 2006 (UTC).

A note
Regarding, don't worry. One more personal attack, one more bit of disruption, one more violation of WP:POINT,and I'm ready to block. So don't worry ^_^.--Sean|Bla ck 04:26, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
 * And I have do so.--Sean|Bla ck 07:21, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Cool, Sean. Thanks for letting me know. Bishonen | talk 11:01, 10 January 2006 (UTC).

Your message
Thanks for your message &mdash; and I must admit that I'm not entirely surprised that Hollow Wilerding has hit trouble. It seems pretty clear to me that there are at most two adolescent boys, one of whom is pretending (unconvincingly) to be two mature women. The claim (long denied) that the two mature women, HW and Winnermario, share a computer, and that DrippingInk (who has never denied being a young boy, so far as I know) lives across the road from them and is a friend... well, I'll say no more. --Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 21:43, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
 * "He's my boyfriend." "He's my neighbor." "He's my husband."  "He's my boyfriend."  "He's my brother."  "He's my boyfriend and my brother!"  Shades of Chinatown.  Geogre 02:54, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Or at least William Faulkner. *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 16:14, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Ooooh, very Caddy of you. Now I have to go find out if any of them clocks in the store window is right.  Geogre 17:24, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Just for fun I shall share a cute little story. When I checked out a copy of As I Lay Dying from the school library of my high school I found an interesting notation. The shortest chapter in the book reads: "My mother is a fish." (or something to that effect). Someone had penciled in underneath, "Well, no one is perfect." It reminds me of one of my favourite Billy Collins poem. *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 06:02, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah, Vardiman's famous syllogism. Rotten fish stink.  My mother is dead.  My mother has to be put in the box.  Otherwise she'd stink.  My mother is a fish.  That's great marginalia for a high school.  In my high school, all they'd have managed was "huh?"  I had a story I wrote once, long, long ago, about a young woman writing a suicide note in marginalia.  She took all the books she had taken out for her research project and wrote a bit in each book.  Seemed like a cool premise, at the time.  (I was in grad school.  One works with the materials at hand.)  You know, for not liking Billy Collins, I sort of like Billy Collins.  Geogre 12:53, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, people either LOVE Billy or NOT LOVE (I have yet to meet anyone who HATES him) Billy but I would be curious to know, in your infinate wisdom, what you don't like about him or maybe what you like. Whichever comes first. *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 14:43, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It's hard for me to say, really. I'm a fan of the Modernists, and I'm an academic, so I have two strikes against me already.  Basically, I have never recovered from the dream of the poet as priest that the Modernists had.  I still think that poets have to be philosophers, to some degree, as they can express a truth that is not rational but nevertheless real.  Poets can express truth about perception, about psychology, about Society, about the nature of suffering, about the nature of justice, about social ills, etc.  Now I realize as well as the next person that the super-compression of some of the High Modernists has disaffected poetry's audience.  Further, I know that the "you must have a Ph.D. from Harvard and read what's on my bedstand to get it" stuff is not very helpful, but I think that a lot of what came after the Modernists lost poetry's audience just as effectively.  The Confessionals, with their "this poem is about me, and you'd better know and celebrate me, because I'm doing my Whitman schtick right now" didn't help anyone (except po faced high school girls poised with a razor in one hand and Sylvia Plath in the other).  Then the Black Mountain group with their "this is nature, and it's rock 'n roll, and we're hip" stuff said so damn little and managed it in such an annoying way that I'm cold.  Then we get some of the Language people, and I simply don't have access to whatever cache of drugs they were taking.  Finally, now, we have a big time damage control movement, where poets are trying to get back to the Folks -- the Folks who don't read poetry anymore.  They sometimes say clever things, but they rarely say anything personally or socially dangerous.  They rarely still say anything novel.  Instead, they say amusing things, light things, things fit for a poster.  Billy Collins is a step up from them, and he's highly skilled, and he's absolutely inoffensive and often charming, but ...  well, I miss my tough minded, cosmically portentious, booming voiced Modernists.  Geogre 16:03, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

RFA/William M. Connolley 2
You participated in the first RFA so you may be interested in Requests for adminship/William M. Connolley 2. (SEWilco 06:16, 11 January 2006 (UTC))

Heeeeelp!!!
My new pet is gone to RfD by people who don't even speak Greek! :~( Project2501a | ΑΝΥΠΟΤΑΞΙΑ, ΑΠΑΛΛΑΓΗ, Ι-5 06:37, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * 'Ηηλπ; Unsigned comment by User:Geogre
 * Hi, Geogre, are you Zen today? George, sorry about your baby article! It looks very... uh... interesting. Although I have to admit that the references (that I just formatted) aren't noticably better than my own at List of books with the subtitle "Virtue Rewarded". Still, it's hardly our fault that we have to work with what's available! Bishonen | talk 00:30, 12 January 2006 (UTC).
 * Me? I just tried to transliterate, based on my ancient understanding of Ancient Attic, but I couldn't find the aspiration mark, and transliteration is all I can do now.  I am now here nowhere, and that's totally Zen.  I just got a dissertation in the mail, and it's very cleverly written so far -- good sense of style -- but I didn't see an important person thanked in the acknowledgements page.  (Must teach tomorrow, though no bets on whether I'll actually educate.)  Geogre 03:19, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * You got that dissertation now? Oh, for... Christmas or no Christmas, I sent it a month ago! :-( Did the the First Class sticker fall off? I've noticed they aren't very gluey. You ought rather to have gotten something else in the mail about today, but I expect that'll reach you in February. Man, this stinks. We'll have to use teleporting. Bishonen | talk 03:41, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Just got it yesterday, yep. I thought the introduction had great dynamism.  The dichotomy it outlines is familiar to any American, but the English, in particular, seems first class, with a good sense of style.  Mail has to first get to the US, then get inspected by George Bush, then get looked at by Condi Rice to erase the stick figures he drew in the margins, and then it has to go to the Heritage Foundation for an opinion for Condi, and then it has to go to NSA to be scanned, and then it has to go back in the package and get sent to a regional center, and then it has to go to Baptistville to come to my mailbox.  (The thing had been partly torn open, and you are a foreigner from the "Axis of Weasel" countries, and I am a Known Weirdo, so we have to be safe.)  Geogre 12:47, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Re: Wikimood
That's fine, but please note that I only track users with Wikimoods using the images that I created. -- Denelson83 21:17, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Uh, you track them? Er... what? Bishonen | talk 21:22, 11 January 2006 (UTC).
 * Sounds frightening. I think you have a rouge Wikimood now, Bishonen. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:48, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Not at all! Real ladies at most pinch their cheeks into a becoming shade of natural pink! My new mood-o-meter has already come in useful for vandalism, it seems; check out User:Beckjord, unless it's already been reverted. Bishonen | talk 22:38, 11 January 2006 (UTC).
 * Remember, each image page has a "what links here" section right at the bottom of the page. That's what I mean by "tracking." Denelson83 01:55, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Tsk, your device has confused Martial Law: &mdash;Bunchofgrapes  (talk) 04:23, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Bish, please note that I only track users with Wikimoods that are you! El_C 08:43, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Where are my elderberries?! /stomps [[Image:MontyPythonFootLeftSmall.jpg|33px]] El_C 08:56, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Fine, ignore me. I know where I can find another shrubbery. :( *sniff* El_C 09:08, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Oooohh, I ignored you for 12 minutes, I don't wonder you're grumpy, Bigfoot and Smallfoot. So sorry! I've put a mood indicator on your page for you, hope you find it suitable at this juncture. Bishonen | talk 12:58, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, there's only one Wikipedia-is-mood for moi! El_C 14:31, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Sigh. Wikipedia servers are way too slow and unstably right now, so I am unable to spam propperly, i.e. in the SFSR, wikimood sets you, etc. :( El_C 14:45, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

--- ---
 * Soldier: Well, I'll ask 'im, but I don't think 'e'll be very keen-- 'e's already gotone, you see?
 * Arthur: What?
 * Lancelot: He says they've already *got* one!
 * Arthur: Are you *sure* he's got one?
 * Soldier:Oh yes, it's ver' naahs. [to the other soldiers:] I told 'em we've already *got* one!
 * Arthur: Well... ah, um... Can we come up and have a look?
 * Soldier: Of course not! You are English types.
 * Arthur: Well, what are you then?
 * Soldier: Ah'm French! Why do you think I have this out-rrrageous accent, you silly king?!
 * Galahad: What are you doing in England?
 * Soldier: Mind your own business!

AOL IP Block
Working tonight? I'd appreciate a release, if so. Here's a copy of the note left for User:DragonflySixtyseven. Same old problem -- Best wishes. WBardwin 09:35, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Please be aware that when you place a block on a IP address used by AOL, you rarely hit your target. Instead, innocent users get blocked for other's vandalism or misbehavior.  Such IP addresses, including the one below, are on a list available to administrators and should never be blocked for long/indefinate periods of time.  I have a long history of being impacted by such blocks.  Please see User:WBardwin/AOL Block Collection for a history and decisions made on this problem.  I would appreciate a prompt release of this and related blocks.  Thank you.
 * Your IP address is 207.200.116.134. Your user name or IP address has been blocked by DragonflySixtyseven.

Main page vandalism
Your fast on the trigger today! Giano | talk 13:58, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * For you, always! Lobbed a couple of quick grenades also., . --Bishonen | talk 14:13, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * You cruel brute, they are probably only little children skiving off school. I just had a look to see how Sicilian Baroque is faring on the French main page (do you think it's a record to simultaneously have one on each? - anyway they seem to have a different class of vandal there in fact they only seem to have one vandal which means either less readers or a more intelligent reader, trouble is the vandalism here is not even witty. I've always felt a great affinity with the French, I'm sure in a previous life I was Napoleon or some other heroic soul Giano | talk 15:52, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Great Scott, you have them on both Main pages today? I can't believe that's happened before, no. Wow. (Runs off to post a note that I know will offend your modesty. Done. Sorry!). Bishonen | talk 17:56, 12 January 2006 (UTC).

Next, allude to "The Deserted Village"
I caught it. Gray's Elegy is far too easy. See if you can work in an allusion to Goldsmith next time, or Pope, of course. Pope's always good. If you allude to Shakespeare, I'll never get it (unless everyone does). (On the banks of the savage Altamaha.) Geogre 00:32, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Now, now, don't go all competitive on me. I never doubted you'd catch it, you Renaissance polymath, I was asking if you liked it. (Wasn't it kind of cool? Prettily discordant context?) Hey, it just strikes me, if your own quotes are meant as challenges, you must have thought I didn't get the "Caddy" allusion? Bah. I'm reasonably familiar with what's-his-name. (-)). I even like "As I Lay Whatsit". Anyway, I have one word for you: Google. Bishonen | talk 01:00, 13 January 2006 (UTC).

Competitive? Me? I'm less competitive than you any day of the week! (Of course not competitive. But part of the game is having someone continue to play by responding with a similar quote/allusion.)  I did like the allusion. How could one not? And now "left to darkness and to me" has always seemed a sinister thing for Gray to have said. It's sort of like he plans to go peeping in windows (and he had a spot of trouble with a window, once, when some boys decided to get him for his...habits...and were, English boarding school-style, excessively harsh). Speaking of harsh, I managed to be the most Rhadamanthine of all on wp:an/i when it came to our Chinatown/Faulkner user (and he's back to being a roommate now). (I thought "Caddy/Catty" was too good, meself, but I have the poor grace to always laugh loudest at my own jokes.) Geogre 02:27, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Indeed, I saw you on ANI — harsh but true, every word. I'm afraid my first thought was, vindictively, that perhaps the user will now realize she got a soft admin. I blocked her for about one quarter as long as policy suggests for those violations; such was my "grudge" and "personal vendetta". She can have you next time, scary guy. Bishonen | talk 02:40, 13 January 2006 (UTC).

Precisely. Had he been at a stable IP and been sent through RFar, I suspect the verdict would have been -- certainly could have been -- an indefinite block. The trick is that this is a person with juvenile content rather than vandalism, so he's not at all like the hard banned users of the past, but he is not at all unlike Michael. Geogre 11:34, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Haha, you can mentor him, then, if it's Michael. Perfect. Seriously, I tried to explain (to deaf ears) to you-know-who that it wasn't good for this user to be encouraged to think of herself as an innocent victim of my "very bad approach" — I bet she took courage from that to carry on saying I needed to be desysopped because of failing to AGF in the face of her self-contradictions, and other such rampant foolishness. These things only make it harder for the community to accept her back. Bishonen | talk 12:21, 13 January 2006 (UTC).

Not A   Chance. No. You know who would be the logical mentor, but I'm not sure that anyone would like that. I'm going to have my hands very full this semester teaching 60 kids to improve their writing and seriousness of purpose, so I don't need another. (I agree, of course. The user is not a victim.  The user is a user.)  Geogre 13:54, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

We ben pr0wnd!!!!!
We now have a cleanly worded article on a cleanly worded pornographer. I finally finished reading introductions to the book and the DNB and wrote John Cleland. The language I used is a bit fussy, I'm afraid -- too 1911 in its way -- but it's a fair article on him. Geogre 16:45, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Er... there was a question from Geogre posted right here, and I'd just typed a a perfectly good answer to it; according to the History, ALoan deleted it in favor of the longitudinal fallacy. SNORT. Don't get over-excited, guys. I'll just paste it back in, right here:
 * Is it possible for someone to have someone else's contribs watchlisted? There was a lightning quick and helpful edit behind me.  It was surprising.  Geogre 16:54, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Reply: No, the wiki software doesn't allow it. I saw somebody requesting the feature on IRC yesterday, saying how useful it'd be for vandalhunting. However, I'd be surprised if there isn't a scriptkiddie kludge that you can use on an individual basis. You might do worse than ask the helpful person if they have something like that. Most people love for other people to use their kludges. Bishonen | talk 19:08, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh no - this is about the third time in as many days that I have managed to overwrite someone's comments. I keep getting silent edit conflits.  For the record, I did not delete your comment deliberately: it about the last thing I would do.  Please accept my profuse apologies. -- ALoan (Talk) 20:50, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

No worries. I thought that perhaps I had accidentally betrayed one of the secrets of the Cabal and that my question had to be removed for violating secrets. Then I realized that I am the Cabal, so if it's secret from me, it's not part of the Cabal. Then I figured it was just a bug. Geogre 22:14, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * "longitudinal fallacy" - snort. -- ALoan (Talk) 17:13, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

That cracked me up when I read it, too. That's why I had to repeat it. Geogre 17:34, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Let me just say that I am pleased, honored, and relieved that folks seem to see the stuff I'm doing so quickly and help out. I'm hardly worthy. Geogre 17:45, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I got rid of those latter day Clelands that uglied the top of the article. Of course, I wouldn't have noticed the article if you hadn't posted on Bish's talkpage. I'm disappointed nobody has noticed my bold move earlier today into the natural sciences with the stub Fluorescent green pig and improved that. Maybe it helps if I mention it here? u p p l a n d 18:03, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, good, Tups. I was just gonna suggest to Geogre to please lose those bu... fellows. Bishonen | talk 19:19, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

That really helped, too. As for the pigs, I think we'll see more warring on the category tags and the bio-box templates that will need to be added to it. Besides, when flourescent green pigs start showing up in Home Beautiful, you'll have been the first one there. Geogre 18:19, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Apparently the pigs are fluorescent green all the way through; perhaps you should get started on Fluorescent green pork chop. (I do not like eggs and green ham, Sam I Am.) Bunchofgrapes 18:37, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * And may I now have a moment to say that John Cleland is fu... is absolutely great? Geogre, you fine sly malcontent, you! :-) That article really improved my wikimood. (I'll go change it right away, in your honor.) Bishonen | talk 19:08, 13 January 2006 (UTC).


 * Moreover. Since people are anyways using this page as a noticeboard for mentioning things, I'll just mention Requests for comment/Theodore7. It's not beautifully illustrated like some RFC's I could mention, but quite interesting. Bishonen | talk 19:19, 13 January 2006 (UTC).

Fluorescent Green Eggs and Ham? -- ALoan (Talk) 20:50, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Ahh... I knew I was missing some kind of American cultural reference somewhere. Actually, making fluorescent green poultry is probably not too difficult. We will need a Category:Fluorescent green animals eventually. (At some point I'm sure fluorescent animals only coming in green will seem so early 21st century, like automobiles from Ford only coming in black, and the green model will be rebranded as Fluorescent Pig Classic TM .) u p p l a n d 09:05, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I think you're right. Did you get a category tag for Category:Fluorescent green vegetables?  There was the glowing corn ("maise" for you furrinners) and the faintly luminescent potato ("potatoe" for US Vice Presidents), and soon one's pet will glow only when one claps twice.  There will be the Pet Clapper.  "Where is Fluffy?   Oh!  There she is!"  Tailor your pet to glow in a color to match your home decor.  Geogre 12:51, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Block of IP 209.226.83.2
Hi. I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but this IP address is used by 54 schools. I've left a response to your message on Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents about it. I haven't unblocked it, but we should seriously consider taking a different approach with this particular address. Mind matrix  20:28, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. Thank you. Unblocked. Bishonen | talk 20:48, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Hollow Wilerding: The Adventure Continues
Sorry to bother you, but Hollow Wilerding has created yet another account at, despite an ongoing discussion at Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents where I provided evidence that she was also the person operating. :( Extraordinary Machine 01:33, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I saw, I'm just typing a response for ANI now. I've no idea what's the matter with alteripse—is that really alteripse, making those extraordinary statements? As soon as I've posted on ANI, I'll block the new account. Unless you want to? She ****ing well is NOT free to edit! Not until the two-week block runs out, at the earliest, and if the community thinks so. Bishonen | talk 01:46, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not an administrator, so I can't block accounts. Anyway, I've posted a comment below yours at WP:AN/I. I think it's pretty obvious by now that Hollow Wilerding is Winnermario, which (from Winnermario's incivility and personal attacks) creates even greater cause for concern. Extraordinary Machine 02:12, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, as everyone by now knows, I've stepped into the role of Big Meanie. I'd block, but I think, in a way, it might be best if the editor were to alight at a particular place so that we have a target for RFar.  How can we ask for a permablock, mediation, meditation, mentoring, or mendacity bans, if there's nothing to refer to?  It's not like "Hollow" was his first account.  Geogre 12:54, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * It Never Ends. I'm on the verge of deeming all those who "try to be reasonable about it" simple cullies.  It's not like this hasn't been spelled out about fifty times.  Even the most desultory reading of the noticeboard would have folks familiar with it.  It's about time for a hard ban.  For that matter, I really am considering getting the Toronto phone book.  Geogre 02:36, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Cullies or trolls. Arguing on ANI after "just looking at her contributions for a few seconds" — basically, demanding that unspecified others research this probable admin abuse — is pretty close to trolling, if you ask me. I've posted, I hope usefully, a crash course for anybody who's really interested underneath your post. And so good night. Bishonen | talk 03:02, 15 January 2006 (UTC).
 * If I had to guess, the presence of the user rc userbox on HW's page was all Chooserr needed to see. Userboxes, the root of all evil. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 03:12, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Argh. User:Chooserr may be well-meaning but he regularly shows that he doesn't understand how Wikipedia works. I was wondering why he stuck his oar in here. FreplySpang (talk) 21:49, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Sigh. You know, some of us actually add Roman Catholic content to Wikipedia (my saint a day project, e.g.), even though we're not Catholics.  Some of us add user boxes and edit war over f*cking pro-choice topics.  Let's see people with that user box add articles on the encyclicals.  We don't have coverage of most of the significant papal bulls.  We're finally getting most of the diets and councils, but there are plenty of those left.  I said recently on my user page that I personally feel like I pay the rent by writing content, and all the time that I don't add content, I feel like a freeloader.  Geogre 12:42, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Not a Catholic - quite. For example, List of Encyclicals of Pope John Paul II is gravely lacking.  I bet Deus Caritas Est does quite well, though. -- ALoan (Talk) 14:15, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Exactly! There are over 10,000 saints.  We have loads of them, but we don't have 10,000.  I stuck to the saints because, as an Anglican Communion kind of guy, I find them interesting, and there are a ton of them that illustrate history delightfully (cultural history, most of the time, but political history quite often, too).  In other words, which figures and which stories a society chooses to celebrate as holy tell us a great deal about the issues, thoughts, and values of that people at that time.  This is a gap in history studies, IMO.  The encyclicals tell us stuff, too, although at such variance with the historical moment as to require a delicate historical touch.  In other words, these things are all inherently interesting.  Do we get articles on them?  No.  However, as you point out, one that seems to suggest that sex is fun...well, stand back.  Geogre 14:37, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, the encyclical is released and I have added it to WP:ITN (since it is in virtually all other news source) - I suppose I might as well have added a sign saying "vandals this way". Mushroom seems to think "caritas" does not mean love, despite the Church translating it that way. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:36, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I am so proud - "‘Ο θεος ’αγαπη ’εστιν". Grin. -- ALoan (Talk) 17:11, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It's "‘αγαπη", actually ;-) Sam Korn (smoddy) 17:17, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 *  Ναϊ Και είμαι ο παγκόσμιος μέγιστος ποιητής. Τώρα πηγαίνετε και ψηφίστε για την Όλγα!!! Giano | talk 19:42, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Gosh! What lovely Greek letters. Someone set me straight on the encyclical quote, but I found a &lt;span> nice trick at poluphonic. -- ALoan (Talk) 20:32, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Ηλίθιο αγόρι. Προφανώς, δεν ήταν παιδί επάνω στη Σικελία Giano | talk 21:21, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * So, let's see what personal invective has been betrayed. Bunchofgrapes doesn't like user boxes and implies that they create false alliances.  I express irritation at people who call themselves defenders of the faith but don't do any research or writing.  ALoan agrees that we don't have much, all things considered.  I agree with ALoan that Wikipedia's editor population is shallow and unserious.  Wow.  I hope no one else gets to see these secret assessments!  FWIW, I've put a week down on the Hollow account after the admission, in so many words, that "she" evaded the blocks because "she" didn't like them.  That's a confession, and that's all anyone needs.  Geogre 21:43, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well I'm glad somebody told me of this conversation...I didn't do it just because she had an RC box, yes I found out about her by it, but I did look over her edits, and I didn't see her doing anything too bad. I also have tried to be fair an unbiased, and I don't like any allegations that may have been hinted at. Chooserr 01:07, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh and I thought we'd resolved the problem about the E you capitalise wronfully in my name...It's Chooserr Chooserr 01:09, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I suspect that you're being duped. That's about it.  This editor is like Michael, in that many of the edits are fine and most are miniscule, but the behavior is wholly mendacious.  You really would be poorly served by believing anything the user says about himself/herself, as he has been caught in at least four sets of lies.  I wouldn't believe that the user is Roman Catholic, that the user is female, that the user is male, that the user is singular, that the user is plural, or anything else.  All that I believe is what I know: the user was blocked for personal attacks and created a new account to evade that and, when that was blocked for voting for itself, created four more accounts to evade those blocks.  Nothing else is germane, really.  When we edit at Wikipedia, we accept its regulations, and one of those regulations is that we can be temporarily blocked for misbehavior.  We don't need to keep proving the misbehavior.  We can examine all that at ArbCom, later, after the block evasion stops.  Geogre 02:06, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I just expanded the University of Paris with a lot of stuff stolen from the Catholic Encyclopedia. Now there is a bunch of red links in there for people with names like Hubold ("a professor of renown in the school of Ste-Geneviève"), Filbert of Chartres, Drogo of Paris, Manegold of Germany (presumably = Manegold of Lautenbach), Gebbard, Archbishop of Salzburg, Robert d'Arbrissel (founder of the Abbey of Fontevrault), Gerard (or Girard) La Pucelle, Mathieu d'Angers, Anselm (or Anselle) of Paris, Cardinal Conrad, Archbishop of Mainz. As far as I have been able to tell all actual saints already had articles. But these guys probably all knew a saint or two.


 * I think we need a rule demanding contributors to add at least one medieval abbot for every football player (either kind). Any article including one of the words "abbey", "decretum", or "codex" in the title is fine too. u p p l a n d 19:04, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

No worries
No worries at all. Cheers. :)

Can you...
Can you correct the meter error, since I'm not a Admin. yet ? Martial Law 04:17, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank for blocking the sock puppet
thanks for blocking the sock puppet/anon User talk:12.74.75.184. Travb 23:24, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Who ever block him, I appreciate it. I can debate anyone, head to head, but I have no patience for cowards who refuse to play by some of the basic rules of wikipedia. Travb 23:37, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * You're fast! :-) --Bishonen | talk 23:40, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

friends...
hullo Bish --- no I hadn't seen your rfc, but now that I have, I am of course envious that you should have received so many cookies :) Regarding my "friend" posting that nice "award" to my talkpage, I can only assume that is the nice gentleanon I came across on Talk:Artgemeinschaft :| best regards, dab (&#5839;) 15:47, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Talks rather like it. Filing "gentleanon" for future use. :-) Bishonen | talk 16:07, 15 January 2006 (UTC).
 * Hey now... none of those neologisms here. We need to keep this place respectable. Keineswegs! Keinerlei Veränderung! Bad Dieter! Bad bad Admin! :P
 * →  P . Mac Uidhir  (t)  (c)  20:18, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Fram för förnyelse! Go Dieter! Bishonen | talk 20:23, 15 January 2006 (UTC).
 * 
 * →  P . Mac Uidhir  (t)  (c) 20:31, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Beckjord
Given 's recent appearance, I think the only useful course of action is ArbCom. I'm going to make sure the others I asked to take part in the RfC are on board with this change, but I can almost guarantee that they are; evidence would be appreciated. android 79  16:58, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Your comment at WP:AN/I
I am already violating my one-week block, but since you seem to oppose the idea of an Arbitration, why don't you unblock me and allow me to edit? I can't stop saying how much I'm not guilty of any crime and that it was you who started the controversy. By the way, since the block on User:Solar Serenity is about to lift, what is going to happen with that account? Can we leave it for my brother to operate in one-weeks' time? Let us put it this way: I will go away for one week, and I will not file the Arbitration if you let my brother operate the account. This way the community is allowing my brother access to Wikipedia while I do not violate my block for one week. My brother will not begin editing for one-weeks' time as well so that you don't suspect any block evasion. Is this deal fair enough? Would you finally be willing to compromise with me on this? 64.231.168.115 01:40, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


 * And as much as you sound convinced, no, I am not a child. :/ 64.231.168.115 01:40, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Really? You're an adult who's unaware of time zones? I see you post misdirections about that at User talk:Markalexander100, btw; you avoid linking to any of the posts in the ANI thread that do discuss the way the end of the block depends on what zone you're in, and claim that a comment from me says or implies that the block will run out at a particular time on the 15th. Here's a real comment from me: "My block will be released on January 15th or 16th — whatever your timezone says". No matter, the whole idea that you get to unilaterally decide that "now the block ought to be released, so I have a right to edit from another IP" shows that you have no respect for this site. How many times have the words "my right" been in your mouth these past couple of weeks? You have no rights, you're here on sufferance, like the rest of us. Editing wikipedia is a privilege, not a right. It can be forfeited.
 * I'll make no deals with you, even if I could understand what compromise it is you offer. Do you suppose it'll hurt me if you file for arbitration? Advising against it was a mere impulse of pity on my part. Please refer again to the post I asked you to read attentively: after the day-by-day stream of abuse you've been directing at me, you don't have a wimpy admin any more. You've forfeited me. Talk to Geogre. Bishonen | talk 02:45, 16 January 2006 (UTC).
 * You're just a terrible woman if this the way you go about things; rarely were you civil towards me. Whatever. Goodbye. 64.231.168.115 02:57, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Re-blocking of Hollow Wiledring
Just to let you know: I have put a one week block on the Hollow Wilerding account following "her" admission on wp:an/i that "she" was evading blocks. I have not blocked the dynamic IP, though I would consider blocking the whole dang range, if necessary. I am also considering calling the real life Courtni Wilerding in Toronto to find out if this editor's mendacity is as pervasive as it appears. (It's easy enough to get a Toronto phone book at the university library.) When the user suspends editing for a week, it will be possible to engage her in the next logical step: RFar. Geogre 02:00, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've been concerned about Courtni for some time, I wish you would. I accidentally undid your block, Geogre, or rather the software undid it (and Snowspinner's) when I unblocked my own original block of the HW account. My intention in doing that was to enable yours, not to annihilate it. But it shouldn't matter, I reinstated it right away, of course, and have stated in the log that it is a reinstatement of yours; that's the best I can do. It means the search facility won't find it if anybody searches for "Geogre", but, oh, well, it can scarcely matter. I hope you don't mind. Bishonen | talk 02:52, 16 January 2006 (UTC).

That's alright, except that it enables the user's continued paranoia that it's all a Bishonen vendetta, etc., if that matters. I doubt it will. I'm not sure the user understands, quite, that, although it's fine if he or she wishes to file an RFar against you, the ArbCom that we're discussing is a motion against her. I'll say at the outset that the result of it will be mentoring, and that's fine, but we have to have a mentor who hasn't weighed in and who has standing in a content area other than her own, at least to satisfy me, because there have been folks who have used the content area as an excuse for the other actions, and that's just not allowed. Geogre 13:44, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * But I believe the ArbCom would be quite likely to accept a request by her, except it would be in order to look into her conduct. They do that, I've seen examples. (So have you, FreplySpang, if you're there!) That's fine, in the sense that it would save me or whoever the trouble of drafting a request for arbitration against her. I only entreated her not to because it seemed too sad: the RFC forgotten, she's still "threatening" to make me feel the wrath of the community by filing yet another complaint! I don't get any pleasure out of watching this self-destruction. Bishonen | talk 14:08, 16 January 2006 (UTC).
 * As I've said on my page, there is a kind of event horizon involved. At a certain point, it's all suction, and there's no point throwing any more words in the graphemic hole.  What will be, will be.  Let's hope the user can stay away for the week and not reset the block again.  Geogre 16:37, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Worth pointing out another deception? Well, if it is, let me make obvious something hidden up there. The Hollow Wildering editor asks what will happen if she goes away for a week, per the block, but leaves the Solar Serenity account for her brother, Cruz, to use. Well, on WP:AN/I ("Attempting to ressurrect..."), she announces loudly that her brother Cruz has left for good and will never edit again. (sigh) This isn't shocking for those of us who have been playing the home game of "spot-the-inconsistencies," but since we have people often tricked into taking part, it's probably wise to be explicit. Geogre 22:29, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Dear Bishonen
Dear Bishonen, I haven't had the chance to interact with you yet, but I can easily see you are having a rough time dealing with unpleasant people, and I'd hate to see an obvious asset to WP and a great person stressed due to the deeds of a mere troll. Here's a small gift to cheer you up - over here, we hold these little mistletoes dear. If they succeed in making you smile even for a moment, then their purpose is fulfilled - and so will be mine for today. Cheers, Phædriel tell me 03:26, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Pretty! Thanks very much. Bishonen | talk 04:27, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Beckjord likes the flowers
Hey folks, has it ever occurred to you that the main thrust at Wiki is not making good articles, it is really Who Blocks Whom, and Who has Power Over Whom.

Then, who Reverts Whom, and who Re-reverts Whom.

THAT is the big game here. Power tripping. Getting Barnstars and Merit Badges.

BTW, I am not Hollow Wieldering or whomever....

Carry on with your games.

Also, members of the WAFE group I started may overstep bounds now and then, and if any are rude, I am sorry. But as to whether this ip or that person gets blocked, do you really think in the MeatSpace that anyone, I mean anyone, really gives a damn? This is just a huge, absurd, game. Fair boggles the mind.

beckjord66.248.85.124 08:18, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

And you regard the game from above with amused detachment, right? Except that you blanked the image gallery I'd just set up, in revenge for being blocked. Oops, I mean your one-man WAFE group blanked it. Or did it annoy you that somebody put the "Bigfoot" image from it on your userpage? That was nothing to do with me. You're a pettier man than I thought. Bishonen | talk 13:25, 16 January 2006 (UTC).

thanks
for taking the trouble to leave the note on the user's page. alteripse 18:45, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I apparently have a limited imagination
was NOT thinking of Bekjord when I answered that question. KillerChihuahua?!?
 * Heh, I was posting here while you were posting on my page... But come on, how much more blatant can you get than those childish threats? KillerChihuahua?!? 20:40, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Carambat
Is one of my favourite fidlers, WE often sit with a glass of chianti in hand listening to the incomparable scratch of his melodious fluidity at 78 rpm, while the scent of oranges wafts throught the windows, the curtains rustling in the gentle breeze, and the goats softly bleeting in the hinterground. I'm surprised you don't know him! I thought you were cultured like me! Giano | talk 21:54, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, everyone knows Carambat - much more famous than that woman. I'm surprised he doesn't have an extensive article already.  -- ALoan (Talk) 22:01, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I was of course referring to Léon Carambât, who as everyone knows was rather famous! Giano | talk 22:07, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, you'd best let me know when I can conveniently edit. I see the page is busy again and I don't want to conflict anybody. I'll be back to put in a few pets for the nice woman, for when Ezra's out being less faithful to his other mistresses — wtf does that even mean? Bishonen | talk 22:20, 16 January 2006 (UTC).
 * I didn't write that, or mean it like that anyway - I'm foreign you know. Trust you to bring a women's perspective to poor old Ezra, men are not like women you know - we can't help it - Olga understood him so why can't you - I have wondered though what she did while he was locked up for so long - I mean she can't have just fiddled on her own can she - what a shame Fil's gone AWOL he probably would have known - never mind I'm sure she was fullfilled by Ezra when he was around - You are quite safe there now - I'm going to bed! Be sympathetic to her, I think she's rather a sweet old thing Giano | talk 22:27, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I can just image it. -- ALoan (Talk) 22:30, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Have you considered a career in television ALoan, a sort of alternative to Ian Hislop? Giano | talk 22:33, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, after my well-received appearances in You and Me (no, not that You and Me - this one) and University Challenge (some years before Worldtraveller, who is still doing what his user name suggests), I was unable to live up to my early promise. -- ALoan (Talk) 22:48, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I think it's ready to go
I added some diffs. You still around? android 79  00:35, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Only just awake :-). Well, mine doesn't have any diffs, and I won't have any time do dig them out until after work tomorrow. I think you'd better leave me out until I can do that (unless you have a few diffs to add to my statement yourself?). Accusations without diffs are just huffing and puffing, they're useless and don't make a good impression. But I'll be happy to be a party to the request, and I can add my bit tomorrow night. I think it's sort of normal that these things grow while on the RFAR page. Another thing, though: the "Involved parties" shouldn't be just you and me, especially since my involvement is marginal (to put it mildly). I think the other guys — the main defenders of the wiki against Beckjord — should add their signatures under "Involved parties", especially DreamGuy, but really all of them. "Involved parties" needn't be limited to people who have written a statement. Check out some others on the RFAR page: the KDRGibby request doesn't have any statement by User:172, for instance. And... hey! I just realized. You can't leave the confirmation that B's aware of the request blank. You need to post on his talkpage to tell him, then add a link to that post as confirmation. And so good night. Bishonen | talk 01:06, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Early train, eh? Well, I think I'll add some diffs to your stuff, put some more names on the thing, and post it. Whether that's tonight or tomorrow morning remains to be seen. android  79  02:32, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * And, I can't really add the thing about notifying B if I ain't notified him yet, can I? :-) android  79  02:33, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Heh, no, but just notify him already: write a note on User talk:Beckjord. If he's turned totally to riding the rotating AOL proxies and doesn't see it, it's not your fault. But do crosspost to any other commensense alternative he's got, any IP he uses frequently, and make a note of whether he shows in any way that he's seen it. ArbCom likes to see good-faith effort in this area. Otherwise, yes,, do it exactly like ... like ... what was I gonna ....exactly. Like. You. Say. ZZZZZZZZZ. Bishonen | talk 02:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Finally posted: Requests for arbitration. I took the liberty of adding some diffs to your statement and doing a little updating/copyediting. All it needs is your signature. android 79  22:55, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you so much
Thank you for un-blocking me. I assure you that I will not lash out at Travb.

Sock-o-rama
I just posted this link to the talkpage of the Geogreshonen identity, and it strikes us/me that it would make sense if you/they posted it here at Bishogre as well. What can I/who say, we/you have been outed. Each talkpage will henceforth redirect to the other. Geobish | talk 02:25, 17 January 2006 (UTC)..
 * OMGWTFBBQ... better check me, too... android  79  02:31, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * You're enjoying this a little too much. I'm disappointed that she didn't point out that you both write a lot about old, dead people who aren't pop stars. I'm also disappointed that she didn't go to the trouble of digging up something you both voted in, to at least, you know, make a case that you were abusive sockpuppets. I guess it's just obvious on the face of it. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:32, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * As if third person weren't bad enough. The puppy doesn't believe a word of it. KillerChihuahua?!? 02:32, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, that should be, "The puppy identity" shouldn't it? KillerChihuahua?!? 02:33, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

This was absolutely the funniest thing we have read in a long time. We are amused. We are troubled, however, as teachers, that our reader missed the "You are my best friend in real life" signed by our "Geogre" on our "Bishonen" user page and our "You are my best friend in real life" signed by our "Bishonen" on our "Geogre" user pages. We would like to remind our readers, as we acknowledge that they go by one name, while we go by two, that they should never miss the really, really, really, really obvious things before speculating on oddly illogical things. We manage the Atlantic Ocean and five time zones by magic which we shall not share. --Queen Geoshonen & Prince Bishogre
 * You're also Pcpcpc, his friend Oliver, and Oliver's niece and tenant Gillian too, aren't you? It's all starting to unravel, Bishogre the Most Noble Bishogre (forgive me). Give it up, mate. SlimVirgin (talk) 03:54, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * LOL. OK, Most Slim Mate. Bishonen | talk 01:38, 23 January 2006 (UTC).
 * Actually, it's the Right Honourable Virgin to you, if you'll be so kind. SlimVirgin (talk) 01:47, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Gotcha, Most Virginal Slimster. Bishonen | talk 02:25, 23 January 2006 (UTC).

And the Lindbergh baby as well as Bruno Hauptmann. -- Geogre inter al


 * Some of the Geogres may be those people, but most of us are the Grand Duchess Anastasia of Russia. Don't we know anything? Anastasia Romanova, 02:13, 18 January 2006 (UTC).

Phalanx Articles
Phalanx (Fourierism) superseded by North American Phalanx. ==

Rectify Phalanx (Fourierism), doubleplus obsolete. doubleplusgood article North American Phalanx :-) 84.160.213.98 02:16, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * ? Have you got the right BOFH? Bishonen | talk 02:25, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I have no idea who is on the clean up detail... You just happen to be one of my favorite +sysop users. 84.160.213.98 03:17, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks! :-) That's very flattering, but I'm sorry, I'm spread awfully thin as it is right now. Could you please ask someone else? Bishonen | talk 18:48, 17 January 2006 (UTC).

Thank you for the heads up
thanks for the heads up about the reformed troll. I hope the troll and I never cross paths again. I appreciate your efforts.Travb 03:46, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Once again, thank you for your diligent efforts.Travb 00:29, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, it was my pleasure. I'll just go write a book about sexual wars now (what was that?). Bishonen | talk 00:56, 19 January 2006 (UTC).

Help
Hello Bishonen, Need some help and not sure where to even start to look for it. I would like to add some information on the page for Tuscarawas County in Ohio. I am a Trustee for the Tuscarwas County Historical Society and would like to add a little bit of info about the organization. Can you help me? MarcusTCicero 03:48, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

A brainwave - I've got it!
I've just looked at your contributions history. This will not do. When are we going to have a new page of interest. All this policing the place is all very well, I am being begged, yes begged, to do so also, (ALoan shut up) but I have higher principals - we have an encyclopedia to write here Thomas Shadwell is very remiss and dull - did he shag well also? - only you can tell us. Charles Sedley's daughter was screwed by James II. Henry Killigrew is a very dull stub, but he was master of the Savoy, so obviously had a good bed (Know what I mean - wink wink!) I stayed there once - very smart art deco but the carpet was stained (I digress) but I see his brother Thomas Killigrew was very disolute -well that's encouraging - how disolute do you think  I think it's about time you blew open the door on Buckingham palace and exposed the Master of the Revels. What do you think? Sex in the Restoration city. I am quite happy to advise on the technical side of the page Giano | talk 20:47, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I daresay Thomas Shadwell was a devil in the sack. There's no need for you to become an admin just to be able to delete pages, I'll be quite happy to delete all your ostentatious pages. --Bishonen | talk 21:15, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * This is a dilemma. I want to have good, reasonable people like Bishonen to police the place, rather than people who just like to exercise whatever little power they have. But I also think it is a waste when good writers don't get the time to write anymore. It is a systemic problem. Something has to be permanently done about the trolls and POV pushers to make them less of a drain of other people's energy. u p p l a n d 21:30, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

User:Fighterforfreedom
Looks like he's up to some no-good. On Ward Churchill he has repeatedly reverted to a version prior to a page refactoring. His/her edit comments claim that this had something to do with a concern with POV; but the change is simply making one overly large page rather than two reasonable size ones. Both of the pages, on a controversial topic, definitely pose a POV quagmire, but this user doesn't even seem to be pushing any POV except that pages should be >32k in size via this particular edit. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 22:53, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Bishonen. I actually don't care much at all about Fighterforfreedom's weird obsession with my sexual orientation that you warned him about.  Of real concern to me is repeated "unfactoring" of the article.  S/he's somehow got this obnoxious notion in her/his head that refactoring an article into proper sized siblings somehow comments on the "worth" of the topic (and he presumably thinks Churchill is "unworthy") rather than just on how many words the article(s) have.  But I did some work in the refactoring (not huge, the general content was kept, but a few different sections were moved around, and lead in language adjusted a bit); it's really annoying to see it rolled back for something as idiotic as this (the POV-mongers who want to rail against Churchill are one thing... but this is just disruption for the sake of disruption itself). Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 02:51, 18 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I didn't really suppose you cared — it's just such appalling behavior. And it's easy to write him a note about, as opposed to getting my head round the notorious Ward Churchill editing. Sorry, right now I just have too many other distractions to take that on. Bishonen | talk 02:57, 18 January 2006 (UTC).


 * Oh well. The refactoring issue is pretty simple, actually.  A section on criticisms grew really large, so I split it off into Ward Churchill (misconduct allegations) with all the appropriate prominent links back and forth between parent and child.  Actually, part of that is to try to isolate the POV-mongering to the latter article, so the parent can more straightforwardly say: "Churchill is an historian who wrote this bunch of books".  Then the child/sibling can have all the publicized accusations.  But quite apart from such content, it's really just a matter of size... the article was getting something like 60k before the split, just about evenly split between the main thing and the allegations. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 03:28, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

re:Your advice to CBerlet on WP:ANI
My bad...not sure why I even suggested that to him. Thanks for pointing that out.--MONGO 08:14, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Blocks
You know, I guess this is what happens when you fail to block people a lot: you don't get expertise on how to unblock. Last night, I simply could not get myself unblocked. I think everyone agrees that Kurps is a vandal who needs a big slap, but an indefinite block on an AOL proxy can hit the good folks. (Lately, the IP's I've been getting have all been used by vandals.) Geogre 10:53, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Controversy! POV! OR!
Sarah Scott: You can't tell, I'm sure, that I have written "Are there any feminists in the Hall?: Sarah Scott's Millenium Hall and lesbian masking." You can level with me. It's too POV, isn't it? Geogre 18:27, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

(Wow. He took five bullets for Lulu in Iraq.  I hope he gives them back, as stealing is wrong, and it was wrong of Lulu to ask him to steal those five bullets.  ("If you've got a black list, I want to be on it." -- Billy Bragg) Geogre 01:00, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
 * For goodness' sake, you just up and wrote that? You're kidding. Geogre, I have to agree with the users who claim you're not one but many. The Geogre CooperativeTM is a reality. It's a great article! Find a couple of piccies and two more references and it's ready for FAC. What a wild and crazy editor you are. :-) Oh, and yes, I think "pathological" is definitely POV. You just put that in to give me something to say, didn't you?
 * (Just so I could write books about sexual wars, too. Maybe you'd like to ghost them for me, as you sound very into the subject? You know, it's amazing, but that's only the second "bitchonen" I've gotten in my time here. You'd think it would be pretty obvious, wouldn't you?) Bishonen | talk 01:43, 19 January 2006 (UTC).
 * OK, I'll play bad cop: is the entire ==Lesbianism and feminism== section OR? Or do you have a source for this psychological treatment? (And why am I asking Geogre on Bishonen's page... oh, yeah, it's just Bishogre now, that's right.) &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:59, 19 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I have to make do with obscure galaxies (in WP:DYK at the moment). Perhaps you should aim for WP:DYK and WP:FAC at the same time? ;) -- ALoan (Talk) 03:20, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Sure, you say they're obscure galaxies, but we know the truth: Bigfoot comes from there. Geogre 14:46, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Ok, let me answer the questions. Is it OR? Well, it doesn't say, quite. It does report from her novels, and it could be sourced in the novels (i.e. I could give quotes). At the same time, the DNB author addressed the lesbian question by saying that SS and Lady Bab loved each other and that the marriage was never consummated and that one possible reason for her getting pulled out of her husband's house was sex that she wouldn't do. So it's sorta kinda always sorta talked about, and all I did was report (yes, from my own reading) from her work. Yes, I have presented on Millenium Hall, but I haven't published on it, so I don't think it's one of those "you need a footnote to yourself" situations. I defy and dare anyone to read Millenium Hall and not get grossed out by it. There is such a profoundly unhealthy sublimation of desire going on there that I don't think the most devout or the most dedicated "outer" of ancient authors could approve of it. Melvin New gave a great paper, once, on the Will of God in Humphry Clinker and titled it "The Grease of God." Well, that's how grace works in Millenium Hall: the miracle grease to make the plot go. (To be fair to myself, I've been waiting 2 years for someone else, someone maybe who likes SS, to write the article. I was going to write on Sedley, but I saw "Scott" in the DNB today and just figured that even an antagonistic article with full facts was better than no article at all, and perhaps I'll save someone two nights of misery with that novel.)  Geogre 04:22, 19 January 2006 (UTC)


 * As for Mr. Unclean Marine, he's a real hoot. His sister is in the nineth grade.  He won't be aloud to edit anymore.  Wow.  I suppose he's got anger issues, and I also suppose that he was not a front line soldier, and probably not a soldier at all.  At least the few folks I've known who have been in combat have been kind of quiet about it.  That whole run of obscenity was on the most primitive level -- really troglodytic -- and seemed about in keeping with someone in the "nineth" grade, and not a very bright someone in the ninth grade at that.  The obsession with gay and straight, the belief that "bitch" is a zinger, it's all just primitive.  Geogre 04:26, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, and bish, I wrote two articles today. :-) The other was Leoba.  Geogre 04:26, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Bishonen, if you want to see the utmost limit of illustration I can do for Sarah Scott, look now. If there were other sources, it would be possible to FAC it, possibly, if some of the OR were de-fanged. At any rate, I found a picture of her sister (lotsa pictures, in fact, and I may make her my project for today, except that I so rarely venture past 1750) and one picture of the text. I feel iffy about copyright when I'm using someone's digital photo (copyright to the photo?), but there it is. You should look at the full sized book plate. It says all anyone needs to know about the novel. Geogre 14:36, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Mmmm. I use those scans of the fronts of 17th-century books from the Early English Books Online as illustrations without a second thought, and their stuff from inside the books also, like the cast lists in The Relapse. (Incidentally, about The Relapse, talk about sinking without a trace — you didn't even link to it in Charlotte Charke, and I sort of didn't even expect it, nobody can remember the poor thing.) The books are old, they're two-dimensional, the defence rests. That said, I do see what you mean about this one. It makes me feel a little iffy too. Not enough to want it gone, but ... it's not quite two-dimensional, it's recognizably a particular photo somebody took, it would look different in another photo taken by somebody else.
 * Sources, other sources? I can't even believe what a lot of hits Questia has if you type in "Sarah Scott", and how solid they look. 51 academic books! Twenty-something articles in learned journals! An Oxford anthology with some of her poetry in it! Most of the books are no doubt partly/mainly about other writers, but still, there are sources. Bishonen | talk 17:30, 23 January 2006 (UTC).

User Bethefawn
It is wierd. I could almost wonder if he used someone else's name to make them look bad. By the way, I like the phrase "encyclopedic uselessness." Tom Harrison Talk 18:38, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

At first I didn't entirely understand what was going on, so I figured I'd err on the side of caution and keep the block short. I wasn't sure of the effect of blocking the IP vs blocking the username; I've heard people speak of the autoblocker, and I need to figure out how that works. I don't think the user understood what he was doing, found himself getting in deep, and at least had the sense to stop digging. Well, good for him; it puts him ahead of some others. Tom Harrison Talk 02:32, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Do you still care...
...about block evasions by Hollow Wilerding, or have you just gotten as tired of him/her as I have? A checkuser request was submitted earlier today for 64.231.163.117 (talk &bull; contribs &bull; [ page moves] &bull; block user &bull; [ block log]) and 64.231.160.28 (talk &bull; contribs &bull; [ page moves] &bull; block user &bull; [ block log]) and it hasn't been responded to, but I think it's fairly obvious with whom we're dealing. -- keep sleep ing   quit your job!   slack off!  04:33, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much, KS. I do care, and I think it's time for a request for arbitration. But I don't know how we're going to keep those IPs out, in this situation where Winnermario/HW obviously cares nothing for rehabilitating his/her tarnished identity and merely haunts wiki like a succubus. But that's me, I'm no tech, maybe there are ways and means. I hope Geogre will take care of this latest development. (Oops, forgot that I am Geogre, please see heading Sock-o-rama above.) Bishonen | talk 11:30, 19 January 2006 (UTC).
 * My feeling is that popping this IP is sort of not here or there. However, if ArbCom goes forward, which I feel sure it will when the block finally expires (when the user finally stops resetting it by editing), then a good injunction will mean that anyone will be able to do a very quick block on any seeming HW.  Since these are an ISP's IP's, we'd be dealing with probably :30 blocks.  That ought to be enough to really frustrate anyone hanging up and redialing, so long as folks pay attention.  Since HW reads this page habitually, let's go ahead and address "her."  Stop evading the blocks.  Let them expire, if you want to have any hope of editing without blocking.  It's easy enough.  Go check on Yahooligans or something.  Geogre 12:06, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
 * As far as "keeping those IPs out", I suppose "her" articles (Majora's Mask, Luxurious, Hollaback Girl, etc.) could just be semi-protected, at least for a little while. And, as much as I hate the idea, maybe Majora's FAC needs to be semi-protected as well &mdash; HW is essentially editing the article by proxy through that page. -- keep sleep ing   quit your job!   slack off!  13:02, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

WP civility (or whatever it's called)
Kindly confine your edit summaries to the matter in hand, and do not intone your own POV. Poor Ezra had a very difficult life, and now Fil has gone AWOL it is left to me to defend him. Giano | talk 22:31, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
 * When I'm given such rich opportunities to despair, I will despair, in the edit summaries and out of the edit summaries, up hill, down dale, and twice round the gasworks. It's a very sweet page, tho'! Please take a look to see if you dislike the longer paragraphs, they're easily changed back. Bishonen | talk 22:50, 19 January 2006 (UTC).
 * The paragraphs a fine - very fine thankyou - what a beautiful page it is now. With Sic Bar one of my favourites Giano | talk 18:12, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Río de la Plata
Río de la Plata? River Plate? As a disinterested admin, I wondered if you would care to grace us with a dispassionate view of the WP:RM debate. -- ALoan (Talk) 00:01, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, no, I wouldn't, I've been spreading far too many "views" across the wiki and need to get back to actually editing an article occasionally. Giano tells me it was years ago. Moreover I'm by no means disinterested here, as it's Río de la Plata in Swedish. :P That name is a rhyme word, even, in a song by Evert Taube that all real Swedes sing (hauntingly, hauntedly, Ingmar Bergmanesquely) at their ritual August crayfish and vodka gatherings. You'll understand my predicament: I must recuse for patriotic reasons. Bishonen | talk 13:17, 20 January 2006 (UTC).


 * I think you may be pulling my leg about the August ritual, but I understand about not wanting to spread onesself too thin. I have asked on Wikipedia talk:Requested moves.  Perhaps I should bother Violetriga too. -- ALoan (Talk) 13:28, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Me? Uppland, if you're watching, please back me up about the quasi-religious overtones of crayfish and Evert Taube songs (and strong liquor and, with reverence be it spoken, little paper hats) under the full August moon. Bishonen | talk 13:58, 20 January 2006 (UTC).


 * Sure, I can confirm this. (Let's keep quiet about the ritual devouring of rotten fish, or they will never believe us.) u p p l a n d 15:25, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmm - with milk and "snaps"? Who on earth spells "aqua vitae" as "brännvin" - surely you mean "whisky" ;) -- ALoan (Talk) 16:22, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey, ALoan, let's not mess with them with their August crawdad ceremonies. It's a major source of export income for Louisiana, Mississippi, and east Texas.  (Cirrhously, they really do import vast quantities of crawdads from our picturesque states, having eat up all their own.)  (As for the vodkha, I have Absolut-ly no idea where they get that.)  Geogre 14:26, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I've found one source that claims that kräftskiva (crawfish parties) involve funny paper crawfish hats in addition to the drinking songs, but that's obviously a crazy hoax. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 19:30, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * You found an anglophone source? Wow. This is the cutting-edge domestic scholarship on the subject. Note the tasteful lantern, a classic accessory representing the Man in the Moon. Bishonen | talk 20:42, 20 January 2006 (UTC).
 * I'm so glad you asked, because the book's title is just priceless: Modern-Day Vikings: A Practical Guide to Interacting with the Swedes. Google books link to the kräftskiva and surstömming page. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 20:47, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, Sweden doesn't really make vodka, only brännvin or aquavit, but it is repackaged in fancy designer bottles and called "vodka" in order to sell it to Americans. u p p l a n d 15:25, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The juice of the potato (potatoe for the hard of spelling). Carmencita, eh?


 * Samborombon, en liten by förutan gata, den ligger inte långt från Rio de la Plata, nästan i kanten av den blåa Atlanten och med Pampas bakom sig i många hundra gröna mil, dit kom jag ridande en afton i april, för jag ville dansa tango.


 * The only Scandinavian drinking song I know (in the original, thus dicounting that 70s band or the 80s one) is Danish one about sailing down a stream and sailing back up it again. Unfortunately, I am functionally illiterate in languages with lots of øðÐ łėţťəřş - I only know the words, not how to write them. -- ALoan (Talk) 14:42, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well drown me in a vat of Absolut and call me Shirley, was that you quoting "Carmencita", ALoan? I thought at first that bit had to come from Tups. I'm most impressed. Please come tango with me! Bishonen | talk 15:36, 20 January 2006 (UTC).


 * Oh, I will "dansa tango" (quick quick slow).  Argentine Tango, or ballroom? -- ALoan (Talk) 16:09, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


 * There is also the Finnish Tango, which still lacks an article on the English Wikipedia (another scandalous omission!). u p p l a n d 21:00, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Q. How can you tell a Finnish extrovert?
 * A. He stares at your shoes. Geogre 12:40, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for unblocking me :)
I appreciate you unblocking me that was very kind of you. :)
 * I see you got blocked again. I've asked the blocking administrator about it. (I'll be logging off now.) Bishonen | talk 05:07, 20 January 2006 (UTC).

"Globe of Frogs"
Your current mood reminds me of that Robyn Hitchcock and the Egyptians record, and a good record it is, too. Now, what to research... what to research... saint of the day, no doubt, but what unbiographed figure? Geogre 13:58, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Let's see.... Saint Sebastian, Fabian or Saint Fabian, Euthymus, Desiderius, Saint Agnes, Meinrad, Epiphanius, those are the saints of the day. A random search through a literary encyclopedia landed on John Marston, and our article on him is hilariously bad, and then you and I would both like to see someone write a bio of Charlotte Charke (and that way, I can stay on my "suspected lesbians of the 18th century" theme, and you can refer to her in your Colley article).  Geogre 14:16, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Aiigh! Look at the article on Charlotte Charke before I change it.  Ugh!  There ought to be a law!  Geogre 14:18, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * "By assuming a male identity and going under the name of Charles Brown, she was harder to find." Charlie Brown is actually a female in drag? Who would have thought that? u p p l a n d 15:59, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * OMG, he's in turbogeogre mode (/me runs for cover). Bravo on Charlotte, I came >this< close to fixing her up when I was dilly-dallying with Kolli. She needs it all right. Bishonen | talk 15:18, 20 January 2006 (UTC).
 * Alright, I'm going to fix Marston now, Charke tonight. Maybe I'll do Charke this afternoon, but probably tonight.  I've done the research on both.  At any rate, Charlie Brown is kind of lumpy -- that's because he's really a pregnant woman.  Besides, I've always thought that Gertrude Stein began to look like Charlie Brown after a while.  (The Charke article is no article at all.  That kind of thing is simply a disgrace.  The Marston article is also not an article, but in a different way.  One is a blob of text from someone's paper for a class, and the other is a headnote from someone's anthology.)  Geogre 16:50, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Charles Brown (disambiguation) -- ALoan (Talk) 17:00, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Blug. The DNB doesn't mention a first name for her male persona, but "Charles" makes sense for a "Charlotte." At any rate, I'm now done with John Marston. Charke is next. Geogre 17:28, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Addendum: I've decided, due to my own stomach complaints just now, to take the notes for Charke home, write it up, and then rewrite it. Basically, I want to be sure I'm far distanced from the DNB entry, which is somewhat illogically presented.  If I follow from my notes and write it at a first draft, I'll avoid wording similarities, of course (no plagiarist, I), but I'd be locked into the misplaced presentation of facts that the DNB author has.  (The short version: everything comes from her autobiography.)  Geogre 17:42, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


 * There are a surprisingly large number of websites, if it helps, including some which claim to be biographies. -- ALoan (Talk) 18:17, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Mhm, and there's one actually useful one, too, with good-looking possibly Questia-able references. I've been keeping this one bookmarked. Excellent work on Leoba! Bishonen | talk 19:20, 20 January 2006 (UTC).


 * EEK! Our article (from NOVEMBER last) is essentially a copyvio from one paragraph from that (which explains the spelling and grammar, but lack of context).  -- ALoan (Talk) 19:52, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

(And now here's our buddy back. Reverting edit.  More later.)

I was trying to get rid of that copyvio, but I was blocked for having my ISP owned by AOL. It wasn't worth bothering, as no one on IRC other than Bishonen would even try to help. Bish, 3:00 is fine. I may even have done the Charke article by then. It seems strange to me that people didn't list that article on AfD or CSD. I mean, seriously: forget the fact that it's a copyvio. It's a paragraph out of something longer obviously. It's not encyclopedic, doesn't establish context, doesn't explain the subject whatsoever, and then it's copyvio. A substub saying, "Daughter of Colley Cibber and notorious transvestite" would have been better. People delete far, far, far too little, believing "it's good enough." Well, no it isn't, and no, we can't go walking around with our pants down until someone somewhere makes a belt for us. "Eventually" someone will give us a belt, and until then we'll walk around showing our arses. (Gosh, I'm in a good mood.) Geogre 04:11, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Charlotte Charke is done. Geogre 19:04, 21 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the picture. It's lovely.  I think your saying something about how minor her roles were, or what they tell us about either the image of the character or the actress, would be wonderful.  The only caveat I can think of is that, when she appeared in Colley's plays, she was really, really, really young.  Geogre 23:46, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Sure, gladly. You mention one "tomboy" role: Hoyden in The Relapse. But to do it right, I should get the relevant volumes of the London Stage from the library, so it may be a few days. Btw, one detail: what do you (what does your source) mean by Colley selling his share of Drury Lane to Highmore "instead of" to Theophilus or Charlotte? That he was mean to his kids? That wasn't it; Colley and Theo were most likely in cahoots to swindle Highmore. They were little better than crooks, really. See the True Story at Colley Cibber, section "Cibber as manager". I suppose it's only tenuously relevant to Charlotte in any case? Shall I remove it, or do you have detail to contextualize it? Bishonen | talk 02:09, 22 January 2006 (UTC).


 * I'd rather contextualize it, as "daddy hates me, and my brother is a shit" is a major part of her story. She thought, apparently, that she and Theo should have kept the theater and rolled merrily along.  Remember that she was young and despised by those two, so she probably didn't know about the swindle.  I can do the contextualizing pretty easily, in fact.  The source's shock that she got nothing is a sign that that's how it's presented in the Narrative (since that's really the only source she used), and that is a sign of just how out of the loop Charlotte was.  I suspect that a more sensitive reader of the Narrative could pick out quite a few things that the DNB author may have missed.  Geogre 03:35, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Unblock pwease!
Why woundn't you unblock me? : ( Can I be an administrator too?


 * Look, we're nice, we assume good faith; it's not the same thing as being dumb. You lied to me. Now just sit out the block, create a new name account when you return, and edit constructively from it, without sockpuppets. Then you'll be fine. You have to be more used to the place before you can be an admin, but I don't see why not, in a few months' time. Bishonen | talk 00:16, 21 January 2006 (UTC).


 * Too nice, sometimes - I suspected the second was a sock of the first, but told it not to do it again or risk being blocked. I even gave the third a second chance, but it blew it.  I'll block all three indefinitely.  Perhaps we should block the IP too - all it seems to do is vandalise... -- ALoan (Talk) 00:28, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The deceit and taking advantage of us (me) was the worst thing; the vandalism isn't exactly egregious. But since the IP is capable of posting on my page, I'll block it for 24 hours. It seems static, since the person is so keen to get it unblocked, but I'm not sure it really is. Blocking an IP indefinitely is kind of hair-raising. And maybe the keenness to become an admin can be channelled into editing virtuously from a new account, like I suggest above? Let's give it a chance, anyway. It'll be easy to block it later, if necessary. (And you may fall down and worship me at your leisure for using niceness to ferret out the facts. ;P ) Bishonen | talk 00:40, 21 January 2006 (UTC).


 * The long history of vandalism warnings on that user page is the worst thing for me. Why do we put up with it?
 * Oh, because vandals can so easily hop to another IP when blocked anyway? (Though it's a stupid thing to do if they want to become an admin.) I just realized the message above came from a different IP in the same range. I may have the last static IP on wiki. :-( Bishonen | talk 01:31, 21 January 2006 (UTC).


 * I tremble before you, oh terrible nice one. ;) -- ALoan (Talk) 01:16, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I hope so. I have just become important enough to have my first impostor ! Bishonen | talk 01:31, 21 January 2006 (UTC).


 * Wow, you really get quite a bunch of impostors now. I'm impressed! u p p l a n d 21:44, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm..? I do? Where are they? Bishonen | talk 16:30, 23 January 2006 (UTC).


 * BoyShonen, who was promptly reverted and then indefinitely blocked by Bunchofgrapes. u p p l a n d 16:44, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, right, BoyShonen and ShonenBiy, indeed. Very scary (not). I'd forgotten all about those guys. I'd as soon live in fear of the notorious socks Geoshonen and Bishogre, I guess. :P Or that object of dread, the strange elusive Bishonen, who has appeared a few times round the place. Bishonen | talk 20:01, 23 January 2006 (UTC).

Meanwhile, no one unblocks me. Oh, no. With all the f*cking vandals hopping AOL and the admins not checking the chart, I end up blocked every night. And, on IRC, "boo hoo for the AOLLers." Yeah, well, when I'm rich, I can sneer at the AOLamers, too. Until then, I have to use the least expensive ISP there is, and that's Netscape, and that's owned by AOL, and so, instead of my reversing copyvio and writing an article tonight, I sit blocked. Yeah, this is worthwhile. Geogre 04:07, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Geogre, sorry you got all that. :-( I suggest you copy and study this message, with tips from JRM to WBardwin, and keep it available for next time. Being yourself both the blocked user and the admin with unblock powers should help. The thing to bear in mind is that nobody other than the blocked user sees the same, very complete, block message; if you get blocked, only you are told what the IP is. The IP helps a lot if the original blockee was an anon, not at all if he/she wasn't. Anyway, the point is, in your double role, you get the optimal info, better than other admins. I hope the link helps. Bishonen | talk 13:52, 21 January 2006 (UTC).
 * There was 'one piece of advice that was worthwhile in all that. Block one's own IP with a time of zero.  Other than that, JRM is wrong.  When you know the IP blocked, you still don't get to see which IP was autoblocked.  If my block says that IP 217.75.83.2 was blocked, the block log will not show that address, no matter.  It will only show "block 8455" and "block 8456."  That's that.  I'm not at all happy with the industriousness of my fellow admins on IRC.  Geogre 14:53, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * ? No, we're not communicating here. I know the block log looks the same for everybody, and so does JRM. What I tried to say was that you do get told the IP in your own block message — not in the log — the message that appears at the fateful moment of blocking. To have that info will help if the original blockee was anonymous: you can search the log for the IP, and if he was anonymous, you will find the original block. It will not help if the blockee was a name account. Bishonen | talk 17:04, 21 January 2006 (UTC).
 * They haven't been IP's. If they were IP's, I'd have been able to unblock myself without any hassle.  Instead, they were all named.  That's also why the blockers didn't realize they were blocking AOL addresses.  Geogre 18:55, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Just seeing if it works Giano | talk 12:49, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for reading my mind, G! I was just going to ask you to do that. So, apparently semiprotection works like it's supposed to, despite the text warning you that "only administrators can edit". Excellent. I believe it stops only anons + accounts less than four days old. Perfect, that should give some recent "friends" of mine a nice rest from the compulsive urge to blank this page and other pranks. (Look at the history before I semi-p'd, and at all the nice people reverting — thanks, guys!). Bishonen | talk 13:52, 21 January 2006 (UTC).

Oh that is clever isn't it, but won't they just be able to edit you on Wednesdday just the same. Thank you for the compliment nominating dear Olga - "Quelle surprise!", I'm sure she appreciates it the honour. I was thinking this new confangled way of locking a page would be a good idea for the main page wouldn't it? Giano | talk 13:59, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * You mean the Featured article of the day, right? There's a discussion about that on WP:ANI, under the heading "Semi-protection of featured articles". You can weigh in, but it's better to start a new thread at the bottom of the page, because nobody looks at the topics that have travelled up to the middle of the page anyway (in my experience). I think semi-p for the FA is pointless myself, per Sam Korn's argument: semi-protection in that case comes to the same as full protection, so I'd rather protect either fully or not at all. Bishonen | talk 14:15, 21 January 2006 (UTC).
 * No, I shan't weigh in, I'm tired of fighting losing battles, I've got three big pages all unfinished at the moment, I suppose I had better try and finish one of them instead, I've rather lost interest in two of them, I don't suppose you want to finish one do you? Giano | talk 14:26, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * As attractive as you make it sound, no, I don't want to finish your leftovers. I've got one of my own in mind. At least drafting one article will keep me harmlessly off the streets for months on end, unlike you and crazy TurboGeogre. Bishonen | talk 14:39, 21 January 2006 (UTC).
 * What's it about - has it got lots of gratuitous things? I'm thinkink of expanding my own wikipedia entry, but I suppose that would be vanity, I'm bored at the moment, all alone and nothing to do, well lots to do but nothing I want to do....Oh dull Saturday afternoon Giano | talk 14:45, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I am in such awe of you people - you actually write good articles on interesting topics. The best I can hope for it to write a stub on something unintersting, or expand or copyedit something someone else has done. :( -- ALoan (Talk) 16:12, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * OK ALoan you can finish William Wardell for me it's here a thrill a minute he is. You have written lots of interesting pages, I was only looking at some of them the other day. Anyhow, looking at the attention poor old Olga is getting you are the only one who thinks she is interesting - now runalong and add some new fascinating facts to Mr Wardell. Giano | talk 16:54, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Copyedit, ALoan? Ha. Misdirections. You're trying to keep me from noticing this, aren't you? Fancy footwork, tango guy. (Bulbasaur has changed a bit since I copyedited it.) Bishonen | talk 17:06, 21 January 2006 (UTC).
 * Gosh! Bulbasaur that's intersting - what's fish soup called then? Giano | talk 17:07, 21 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Waterzooi? -- ALoan (Talk) 18:27, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi Back
I do think I've done anything to deserve that last hate filled commentary. I am an American Indian (at least 60%) and being a student of the "old ways" makes me happy. As of today I'm turning all of this over to Grandfather, my Guardians, and the ancestors. I shall let them deal with this in their ways.

Thank you for your support and understanding. --Kith and Kin 15:40, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Replied!
I mailed the info you wanted hope it helps Giano | talk 18:35, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Yet Another
Ann Cargill, whom I found by serrendipity in the DNB, was a child star who had a tragic death in 1784. Did you know about the fully trans-gendered The Beggar's Opera? I imagine such things were done long before. Geogre 17:10, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Wow, what a lot of lovers and scandals in that short life, and it doesn't seem to have worried anybody, in the great era of primness and middle-class virtue! The fans don't mind at all. No, the notion of a transgendered show is quite new to me. Quel raffinement, in fact a little revolting, somehow. I'm betting they lingered on the love scenes. All women's companies now, OTOH, I've heard of those. Not maybe inside city limits — too much of a sideshow? — but outside London, at the summer fairs, or strolling. Sort of corresponding to the children's companies in Shakespeare's time. (Those are mentioned in Hamlet.) I don't know where I've read about the women's companies, but I'm pretty sure they were around from the late 17th century. Or in the late 17th century, at least. Such ventures could easily have gotten shut down as being fronts for prostitution, or closed by popular outrage, or the performances could have been fucked up by disruptive users ... er, I mean spectators. A vulnerable kind of undertaking. Bishonen | talk 17:58, 23 January 2006 (UTC).
 * So that really is a children's company that John Marston wrote for and managed? Wow.  How absolutely weird.  Oh, and Henry Carey has now gotten a full going-over.  (Cf the before and after links between the "inuse" edit summary.)  Cargill's story seemed to be absolutely perfect for emerging Romanticism, and particularly its love of beautiful corpses.  (Poe's dead female child excepted.)  They were hot for how hot she was, and they expect some misbehavior from their wild child beauties, but then her death was simply too perfect for an age that would soon get to fall in love with a dead Chatterton.  That revolting Romantic obsession with trembling dead folks was already begun, I think.  Geogre 18:26, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Re: Hi, Abe
You're welcome. They wasted their last vandal edit on a sad little splat on my talk page. I almost regretted blocking them for that, but in this case, I felt an empty threat would be counterproductive. –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 18:57, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

A small favor
May I ask a small favor?

Barter Theater needs to be moved by an admin to Barter Theatre as the official name uses the "re" spelling. Thanks! *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 22:44, 23 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Why delete it? It's a perfectly logical page to turn into a redirect, since people might make the same theater/theatre mistake while looking for the page. I've turned it into a redirect. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:01, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not intending to delete Barter Theater as someone proposed on the talk page. It should be kept as a redirect while the article should move to Barter Theatre which is currently a redirect. *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 02:32, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

I just looked and realized that in fact there were two articles, doh! Thanks for your help Grapes, you are always most helpful! *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 02:36, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Vroom vroom.....
You know I said you needed a new article to write, well I have found one for you. I just happened to be glancing absent mindedly at Portal:Architecture as one does - where Sic Bar just happens to be their selected article,  and what do you think I found? - a list of articles that need writing, and I found this little gem for you - lots of interesting research I should imagine, and just think of the thrill when you locate a new one, we could all join in with our local ones to help you out - I knew you'd be keen so here it is List of European bus stations by size and just to start you off someone has kindly added " (second in Preston, UK with 79 gates) ". Well there's a flying start for you. I would help you myself, I believe there is quite a big one somewhere in Palermo, but of course I always take a Taxi. Much love and good luck Giano | talk 23:16, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Totally POV! Preston....  That author is saying that England is in Europe, which means it's more Labour Party propaganda.  Revert 'em, Giano. :-)  Geogre 23:35, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah but Bishonen could make the article metaphoric "Preston as the gateway to Europe" Then rich Americans like you and BoG could fly to Preston instead of Venezia and revitalize the British economy by busing through Europe from Preston - not forgetting the sites of Preston Plucknett itself.  I can see the 1950s style travel posters now Bishonen driving her bus dressed as a Viking, you with your gun in the back, BoG with his cheese and HW screaming to be allowed in from the roof-rack. Giano | talk 23:48, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * "But HW, we said we'd give you the boot, didn't we? You just have to get in there."  Geogre 23:51, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll just stay aloof for a few minutes more and you guys will have it all written between you, I'm sure. Bishonen | talk 23:52, 23 January 2006 (UTC).
 * There won't be room in the boot because my goats have to go somewhere - and they would not like sharing with HW! Giano | talk 23:54, 23 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm surprised you need to have your page protected when this is how ungrateful you are when people come here with interesting oportunities for you. No please don't reply, I'm going to bed! Giano | talk 23:57, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I love goat cheese, too! So much. So, so much love. Love for goat cheese. Thanks! El_C 02:03, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Geogre's page
I'm not sure if I made a hash of it myself, or if it was our simultaneous work, but in either case, it's not better yet. I'll let you handle it from here. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:08, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Of course you didn't; too many cooks, that's all.. Then after you'd stepped aside I undeleted once more, only to stare in horror at the version with only Chick's post on it. (Until I realized the history was — of course — right there. Life is so much more exciting when you're a little slow in the head. :-)) Bishonen | talk 04:37, 24 January 2006 (UTC).
 * Yeah, between you, me, Chick, and - lest we forget - the vandal, we really had it in for poor Geogre's poor page. I have no idea how long I'll need to be an admin before I really understand moving and undeleting. I suppose if I really wanted to get there, I'd roll up my sleeves and dig in at WP:RM or something. Fortunately for me, I'm too lazy. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:47, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Brrrr, WP:RM. A little while back I had great plans for going through their backlog like a dose of salts — how long could it possibly take? say an hour? — but it turns out there's a reason they're backlogged. At least four of the five moves I actually performed — truly requested moves, with perfect consensus, mind you — led to the most ghastly complications, with people getting back to me from all over the place. "No, that wasn't what we meant — no, now you've overwritten a completely different page that had just been created at that location — now you've gotten entangled with a different move someone else was doing — no, not like that — no, please spend all tomorrow unmoving and undeleting and writing dab pages — no — no — no." I ain't never going back there. Bishonen | talk 05:06, 24 January 2006 (UTC).
 * OK, now I'm both lazy and frightened. Good job. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 05:09, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, I used to get stuck in there, at least for the easy ones, but it takes more time than you expect. And look at the kerfuffle at Talk:Río de la Plata arising from the move I made to River Plate over a year ago. Some people think we should use Spanish names because it is in Latin America (Mockba? Roma?) despite River Plate being the common English usage since at least Francis Drake visited it. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:20, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Morning! Well it looks like it's been an exiting night for you all - is Geogre still with us? Thanks for the thread, very sad case. I wonder if he is any relation to "Combattentedilibertà " -  he was on interesting chap, it was when I was with the  Bersaglieri, (I must find you a photograph).  Well there I was, knew no fear.................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Giano | talk 08:11, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, y'all. This is what I get for unblocking an AOL vandal. No good deed goes unpunished. And blocked users wonder why we turn our deaf ears when they start saying that they've changed their spots, turned over their leaves, and only want to help Wikipedia. Geogre 11:45, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, and Bishonen, Laetitia Pilkington is red. She's red!  I must fix that. :-)  Geogre 11:56, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

FACs and all that
Do you think the answer to a question here it true  I don't know - I just don't seem to be able to keep up with it all these days! Nobody ever used to bother to look at peer review - I certainly never have. Giano | talk 09:19, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Funny you should ask, I was just thinking of writing something on the FAC talkpage about the recent rash of "Object, didn't go through Peer Review yet", as if PR was suddenly obligatory before FAC. That's an interesting pseudo-statistic you link to; no, I don't think it's true at all, it's just stated with great confidence and chimes in with the new orthodoxy, and therefore people will believe it. "Very very few", eh? I suppose I'll have to compile some real statistics (groan) to refute that. Bishonen | talk 11:38, 24 January 2006 (UTC).
 * While y'all are at it, could you stop those *ssholes from swearing (and swearing at) every nomination that inline citations are required? That's insane.  If they are, I won't go through FAC anymore.  I hate inline citations -- both reading them and writing them.  They make a page impossible to edit, as the whole thing gets infinitely fragile.  Wikipedia is the encyclopedia anyone can edit -- unless it's an FAC, and then all the notes go kerflewy the moment you try.  Geogre 11:47, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm getting very confused too there. I know I've said it before, but I think this one really will be the last, all those bloody silly little numbers took longer to organize than the page did to write. One almost has to produce a scanned birth certificate before writing "He was born ".  None of my FAs have ever been to peer review - so I suppose thay are all headed for FARC sooner or later as that will be the "required rule" for those never PRd or inlined Giano | talk 12:30, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * 1) British Registry Office. Volume 3467A Page 759403221. Line 364973.


 * Geogre, when you say "inline citations," do you mean footnotes? I'm assuming you do because they're the ones that make pages fragile (and I agree with you for that reason: I can't stand them either). But they're not required at all. WP:CITE is the relevant guideline, and it says footnotes, Harvard referencing, or embedded links are fine (and in fact embedded links are preferred), so long as they're accompanied by a full citation in the Notes section if footnotes are used, or in the References section if Harvard references or embedded links are used. And you don't have to use any of the strange references templates either, which can also cause problems if citations are later added or removed. SlimVirgin (talk) 12:36, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * SlimVirgin, take a look at FAC just now. You will see every objector there, pretty much, saying, "Does not have inline citations, which are a requirement of all FA's."  There was a camp, a few months ago, that began this absurd campaign.  They liked little fragile numbers.  We academic types were fighting them, tooth and nail.  However, in one of those lovely little gaps, all of us seemed to turn our heads at the same minute, and now, it appears, "inline citations are a requirement of all Featured Articles."  Given that Tony1 had a predilection for rewriting the FA guidelines without talking to anyone about it, I wouldn't be surprised if they changed the language and are now taking the "huh? no, it's always been that way" line.  People who fight nationalist battles on a global encycloopedia, people who fight about categories with no articles in them, people who fight for boxes that must be everywhere, and people who fight over this MoS vs. that, always, always moving toward fewer choices and never toward more, always moving toward being Right and having the Truth, are an annoyance to me even more than they are a mystery to me.  I have neither the patience nor the good will left to play with them.  Geogre 13:34, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * WP:WIAFA was edited about, oh, eighteen months ago to say that references were desirable where appropriate. Over time, this was hardened to make them mandatory (no bad thing, I guess).


 * Similarly, about a year ago, a requirement was added to say that inline references were desirable (something like "enhanced with the use of inline ctations, where appropriate"). Again, over time, this has hardened to make inline references mandatory for pretty much any statement in a FAC (there is an explicit recognition somewhere - WP:CITE? - that any format is acceptable, although I have to say I am in the process of being converted by the &lt;ref> thing).


 * I have raised the evolution point more than once on the relevant talk pages - yes, if you are contradicting widely-held knowledge, it makes sense to attribute your statement; but "the sky is blue (ref:look up)" is just daft, to me. And I think all those little numbers make the blasted encyclopedia harder to read, which is surely the most important thing.  Look at Saffron, which is pretty much the epitome of citing anything that moves - 75 footnotes on a crocus!  I still think it is a nice article, mind). -- ALoan (Talk) 14:00, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I think the new &lt;ref> thing is pretty robust: I've just tried it out on Nobel Prize and it was far easier than the old ref thing. -- ALoan (Talk) 13:32, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree with ALoan, the new "ref" is robust and is much easier to use than the one you've got, Giano — I fully expect Bunchofgrapes to weigh in and say the same at any moment, he introduced those notes at Erik Beckjord and seemed to suppose, in a moment of mad optimism, than even User:Beckjord, who can't format a ==heading== would be able to use them — well, anyway, they're easy for most people. Guys, just take a look at Nobel Prize and Erik Beckjord in edit mode, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. But, now then, Ge-Ogre! I can't believe you're asking other people — me! — to stop the *ssholes. Do please weigh in on talk FAC, at "References — the new witch hunt". You know you can grab that hammer and have the opposition on the run with your thunder ten times over while I compose the first sentence of my upcoming masterpiece "Peer Review requirement — the new new witch hunt?". Bishonen, grabbing the peashooter, 14:09, 24 January 2006 (UTC).
 * Oh, uh, I see I have to weigh in. I am afraid I am one of those uncouth supporters of footnoting our articles liberally if they have more than one reference. This isn't a normal encyclopedia, where there's some reason to trust that the author isn't just making stuff up. Having as direct a beeline as possible from asserted-fact to place-the-fact-is-from is important for the integrity of the encyclopedia. I have nothing against Harvard referencing, either, but I think footnotes make for slightly less distraction. Embedded links, like Slim prefers, I don't like - mostly because you can't make an embedded link to, oh, say, a book. If you want to cite some books and some web sites, then, you have to start mixing citation styles in the article, which is awful... I used to use embedded links as I was working on "rough drafts", then convert them to footnotes all at once, but that was before made it just as easy to make it a footnote to begin with. I find the style quite easy to work with, but I acknowledge it does nothing help sway those who dislike footnotes for stylistic reasons. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 15:51, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Well I completely agree with Geogre, it's now almost impossible to write a decent length article, that reads. Logic and common sense seems to have gone out of the window, and been replaced by increasing rules, regulations and bureaucracy, which is barely understood by the fools who invented it.  Pop singers and football players younger than 30 who have never achieved an intelligent thought or action in their unlived lives become FA biographies, because their limited and few achievements are recorded on easy to read and link to web-sites, which cover up the lack of proper references.  What happens when the websites disappear.  God only knows. The whole FAC thing is going to pot,  led mostly by people who have never written one.  And as for refer to peer review don't tempt me! Giano | talk 14:19, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Shrug - I asked for peer review of Iron Cross and got lots of constructive comments. Perhaps the WP:FAC regulars, like you, Giano, do not need it, but many people slave over the apple of their eye for weeks and end up with something that will never passs FAC, however good they think it is.  Other people (such as, Emsworth, say, or Worldtraveller) produce work that punches all the buttons and scarecly hits the sides (as it were) on the way to WP:FA. -- ALoan (Talk) 14:27, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * ALoan, I think what Giano and I are objecting to is certainly not citation, nor Peer Review, but "This is a requirement. You must use this style.  You must go to PR."  The point is not whether inline citations are inherently bad or not (I don't like them: as John Barrymore said, reading a footnote is like running downstairs to answer the doorbell on the first night of marriage) (I believe notes are good as notes, when there is an emendation or annotation to make that carries verbiage), but that there are now people who vote and lodge objections over "You Must Do As We Say," when what they say is altogether not supported by citation elsewhere or previous practice nor guaranteed to produce useful help.  I love getting help on my articles, but I've also seen the most useless stuff in "objections" before, and things like "cite the fact that she was a good musician in the lead" is just plain silly (concert musicians kind of have to be good musicians).  Geogre 15:02, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, I almost replied to that facile objection with exactly that response: she was a concert violinist for years, people paid good money to see her; given that she could presumably play moderately well, perhaps she had some musical talent (or perhaps, given she was a girl, it was just lots of hard work).


 * well the twit is back again seems to want her deleted as non-notable now - I despair - someone go and tell him - I shall only be too rude as usual. Giano | talk 16:32, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh - I was politely rude before I read this. I still think a period of WP:PR would help, if only because I hope Filiocht may come back and burnish its brilliance.  (Where is our new Arbitrator?  He has been away for weeks.  I hope he is OK.  Has anyone been checking the obituaries?) -- ALoan (Talk) 17:06, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Anyway, as an antidote to all the recent arty types, I have been having fun turning Virgo Stellar Stream into a gem of a tiny science article - with copious footnotes :) Other than the published scientific articles, and newspapers that parroted the press release, this is probably the only article on the topic. WP:FAC, anyone? -- ALoan (Talk) 15:18, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Well! it don't look like Filiocht is going to stroll backinto the manner duzzit? So you kids had better get used to looking at me as the natural successor to the Ezra Pound legend - and you won't find me az nice an tolerant as him so get wize, get real and letz have some action in this place - now I'm juz off to Pelham Bay to hire some help, an if I waz you ALoan I'd forget PR unless it stands for Pro-Rudge. Now letz hav some action here! Giano | talk 22:35, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Pisano! See you at the social club.  We can then go to the gentlemen's club to discuss that thing and whether we got enough, you know, bullets and stuff for that thing.  (Actual mob wiretap intercept.  A guy was being coy by referring to "that thing," and the other guy said that, no, that thing wasn't taken care of, because he hadn't gotten bullets for it yet.)  Geogre 03:24, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Yep all of that, the rest are gonna learn some respect. And another thing from now the peotry round here is gonna rhyme, no more is this Filiocht fancy meaningless stuff, more proper peotry is needed for those kids over on FAC - "roses are blue, violets are red" kinda stuff - givem what they want - fully referenced. Just direct all peotry questions to my page. User: Giano (the bottle's open)


 * All the things are abominations, even the new ones, for a whole host of reasons, primarily that the reader is distracted from the text by being expected to look down, and also because once everything's cited, you daren't make any changes! Bish, you're just wrong, sorry. ;-) Geogre, if you quote, it's better to cite, but it can be a Harvard reference, which isn't intrusive (Smith 2005), then add a full citation to the References section. BoG, I don't agree that it's a bad thing to mix styles. I agree that mixing the two main systems (Harvard ref and footnotes) would be odd, but mixing Harvard (for offline stuff) with embedded links (for online) is fine, in my view. Geogre, Giano, we may have to go forth and fight them on the beaches. ;-) SlimVirgin (talk) 10:17, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Fear not little virgin I am working on a cunning plan! Giano | talk 10:38, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Jolly good. Little virgin knows she's in safe hands then. ;-D SlimVirgin (talk) 10:43, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

DreamGuy
Hello, thank you for reviewing the dispute between me and DreamGuy. I have attempted to collect relevant information at this page: User:Elonka/DreamGuy dispute. If you have any advice on the best way to proceed with dispute resolution, I am very interested in your advice, thanks. Elonka 15:25, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm very glad to hear it. I've posted it on your page. Bishonen | talk 15:35, 24 January 2006 (UTC).

Bishonen, in reply to your messages on my talk page, I would like to explain why I have concerns about whether or not you can remain unbiased in this matter. Please assume good faith on my part. I am not trying to attack you personally -- I am trying to explain why you may not be looking at the situation objectively. To my knowledge, your first awareness of my dispute with DreamGuy was when you saw DreamGuy's appeal to admin Android79 for help, in which DreamGuy gave a highly emotional, biased, and inaccurate view of the situation, referring to Petros' efforts in negative terms, and to me as "an emotional editor" who was "upset" and seeking "revenge".

In my opinion, a party seeking to act in a neutral manner would have then posted on *both* our pages, in diplomatic language that did not immediately assume fault on either side. A neutral party should seek to get both sides of the situation before taking action. Instead, you posted a sympathetic message on DreamGuy's page, and posted a threat of block on mine.

Your first action was to go to DreamGuy's page and tell him that you would be "happy to tell both of them that any continuing posting amounts to harassment". (I especially note the word "happy"). You also said to him, "she's not free to harass you about it, nor to badmouth you elsewhere". Again, this was a comment that implied that you had taken DreamGuy's claims at face value that I was "bad mouthing" him, without yourself first reviewing the facts of the matter.

What really struck me though, is that you made a point of mentioning how "Everyking was recently blocked for harassing" you, in your comment to DreamGuy. I know little about the situation with Everyking, but I believe the situation, your comment, and your actions all make a good case that you were projecting your own feelings onto DreamGuy's situation.

You also went to Petros and told him that he was to "butt out". You advised him to delete the page that he had made, and said you would "gladly delete it" for him. This too seemed odd to me. You also defended DreamGuy at the Wikiquette alerts page, and then went back to DreamGuy's page to tell him that even though you weren't reviewing the situation, you stood ready to block either Petros or me. Again, I see this as completely taking DreamGuy's side, without having bothered to review the facts of the matter.

Please please do not assume that I am implying that you are a bad person. I have reviewed some of your other communications, and I see that you are capable of dealing with people in a civil and courteous manner, and that you work very very hard to reverse the damage that is caused to Wikipedia by a steady stream of vandals. I applaud these skills. I also know that it can be a thankless job being an admin (I manage other online communities, myself). And I know the dangers of burnout -- that when dealing with a constant flood of sockpuppets and others of poor social skills on Wikipedia, sometimes it becomes easy to see any user as having the same suspicious motivations as the other problem-causers.

In this particular dispute between DreamGuy and myself though, I think that you have mis-judged my actions. You did not seem to consider that I might genuinely be acting in good faith. As I tried to tell DreamGuy, I'm one of the good guys. For you to immediately threaten me with a block was excessive, especially considering that you had not yet reviewed the details.

It is my hope that you review your own actions in this matter, to ensure that you are doing your best to gather facts first, to review all parties fairly, and not to jump to conclusions. Just because some of the users on Wikipedia are problem cases, doesn't mean that all of them are. Thank you. Elonka 00:34, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Please don't speak condescendingly to me, Elonka. Your notions that I'm "projecting my own feelings" or suffering from "burnout" aren't just inappropriate, they're inappropriately intimate — it's as if you believe yourself to have the privilege of a friend, or to be a psychiatrist analysing a patient. (Amateurishly, I might add.) You speak as if to a child. Yes, my first awareness of your dispute was when I saw DG's post on Android's page. I didn't know DG, I didn't know you: of course my first action wasn't to "jump to conclusions" and go to DG's page to post a sympathetic message. My first action was to review the situation, by studying the relevant pages and their histories, before posting to both of you according to my conclusions. You may well be a "good guy" for all I know. I have little interest in your motives, and I recommend you to adopt the same attitude to mine, or at least to avoid commenting on them. (Please see WP:NPA: "Comment on content, not on the contributor".) I look only at your actions and how they affect others, because that's what matters to the community and the encyclopedia. This is what I've seen so far: your series of posts on DG's page are harassing and your discussion of my psyche is  presumptuous. Even your compliments are offensive, though I'm sure they're well meant. Making all possible allowances for your good intentions, I hope you won't allow yourself such a tone to me again. Bishonen | talk 01:49, 25 January 2006 (UTC).

Red to Blue
I was looking up info on my latest and tripped over an Edward Alexander Pilgrim, victim of bureacracy. The man's house had been bought by the council (UK), and he didn't know it, and they just started building a Unity house on "his" property. He sadly stared at it until one day in 1954 he hung himself in the shed on the land in dispute. Sounds like the origin of Arthur Dent, Tuttle in Brazil, and a number of others. This is a Macmillain/Labour Govt disaster of the 50s and a big stink, apparently. We have no article (hint to the Brits). Geogre 20:40, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Which council? What is a Unity house? -- ALoan (Talk) 21:37, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

I knew it when I read it. I don't know it now. What's interesting is that there is no mention of him on the web that I can find (esp. since "pilgrim" pulls up every other thing than him, and "pilgrim council housing" comes up with council houses on Pilgrim Way, and "Edward Pilgrim" gets Edward Doty, Pilgrim on the Mayflower). I'll look, if you want. It did seem interesting, but I hadn't the time to take notes. Geogre 21:47, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I wondered if Unity House was this one in Stoke-on-Trent? But it was built in 1973, so presumably not... -- ALoan (Talk) 21:51, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

I gathered, from the reference, that it was a type of building. However, the DNB said that he mournfully stood by as the Unity house got higher and higher until it blotted out the sun and you needed an electric light even on sunny days. In other words, it appears that it was a skyscraper apartment building, and the suicide/incident was '54, but that doesn't mean the thing was finished then. Still, it must have been finished some time around 60, at the latest, so I doubt it's that particular one. Tomorrow, I'll jot down the very skeleton of the story. Geogre 22:07, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Bishonen should change the name of her talk page to Something Awfully Long and call it a forum, or at least a salon (provided we were artistes and/or meaningful). Geogre 14:21, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I second your motion, though I would prefer to call this place a Salon. Perhaps something fancy like Salon des Intellectuels de Madame Bishonen? It has a nice ring to it and I certainly learn something everytime I visit. On second thought, should that be Mademoiselle Bishonen? *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 20:36, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, latest de novo is Edward Pilgrim, for those interested in martyrs to the local council and Harold Macmillan. Geogre 15:53, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and I reearched Hannah Snell, only to find that we already have an article on her. Well, those notes can go in the garbage, now, as our present article is at least as good as the one I'd write. (She's an interesting figure for all of that.) Geogre 15:59, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

(BTW, I had a moment, so I counted. I've 193 de novo articles.  That gives me a reason to get just 7 more to celebrate 200.)  (Unsigned, but you can guess.)

Are you still participating in Beckjord arbitration?
I and the others that made original statements were informed of arbitration now opened in regards to Beckjord...Requests for arbitration/Beckjord, evidence here, Requests for arbitration/Beckjord/Evidence and the workshop here: Requests for arbitration/Beckjord/Workshop. Thought I would just pass this on, as I noticed you hadn't been notified, but if you're no longer interested, then that's fine of course.--MONGO 11:33, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I am almost in your camp on this, as I find that it may be hard or impossible to block his contributions to the talk pages anyway since he seems to be using AOL at least some of the time. Perhaps the best thing to do is ignore him and he'll probably go away after awhile...but I'll go through the motions in the arb case just for practice as I have never been involved in one before...kind of a sour reason I guess. I'm not that bothered by the guy, and a part of me really feels sad for him as he may indeed have some mental problems. Just wanted to ensure you knew it had been opened in case you wanted to chime in...any problem if I use some of the diffs you posted in the original complaint?--MONGO 00:43, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I'll send that off to Android79 or one of the others to allow them to post it as I think I banged the drum pretty hard already and don't want to use up more than my share of diff's. I think Beckjord does have mental problems and while that indeed makes me feel very sad, we can't allow that to compromise article integrity of course.--MONGO 12:16, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

More information
You requested more information on the sock check matter, which I've found by now: Please see: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Multiple Accounts / Admin Abuse 2. I'm letting you know since you seemed to grasp exactly why I was bothered by the incident. --Scandum 13:41, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I checked the link you provided, and as far as I can see Jayjg still looks to be in violation with the guidelines regarding the the check user tool. There seems to be a whole lot more enthusiasm when it comes blocking legitimate sock puppets than dealing with admins who abuse their powers. --Scandum 17:05, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Deus Caritas Est

 * Moved ALoan's comment down from one of the ancient sections up where nobody reads anything anymore.

Well, the encyclical is released and I have added it to WP:ITN (since it is in virtually all other news source) - I suppose I might as well have added a sign saying "vandals this way". Mushroom seems to think "caritas" does not mean love, despite the Church translating it that way. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:36, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I added a stub the other day on the Swedish theologian Anders Nygren, to make that link blue, but didn't really expand it into a real article, half expecting somebody to nominate it for deletion as a "nn professor" or "bishopcruft" or something like that. After all, he is a relatively contemporary person who didn't get payed to play baseball and never released any charted pop albums. Anyway, there seems to be no explicit reference to Nygren in the encyclical. Is that because he is one of them Lutheran heretics, or do these things never explicitly reference contemporary or recent authors? Descartes seems to be the most recent one. u p p l a n d 17:18, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Pass. He does mention Mother Teresa of Calcutta as one of his example saints in para.40, with a quote from her in para.36, and more recent church documents.  No explicit mention of Dante in para.39 either, despite the allusion "Love is the light - and in the end, the only light - that can always illuminate a world grown dim..." -- ALoan (Talk) 18:33, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
 * [Resignedly] Quite... quite... Bishonen | talk 21:47, 25 January 2006 (UTC).
 * I have only just realised that the Pope called Mother Teresa a saint, alongside Francis of Assisi, no less (well, and half a dozen others). But she hasn't been canonised... -- ALoan (Talk) 22:06, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I think that she has been beatified but not canonized, so she's "the blessed Theresea" to be precise. Perhaps this is a sign of Benedict's intentions.  I can't believe he's being sloppy.  I sympathize, though.  Anything with "pope" in it on the main page is straight out "bug me to death, please, and vandalize freely: we especially want to know your feelings about religion."  Geogre 01:45, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Page move straw poll
Moving a couple of comments down here for visibility Bishonen should change the name of her talk page to Something Awfully Long and call it a forum, or at least a salon (provided we were artistes and/or meaningful). Geogre 14:21, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I second your motion, though I would prefer to call this place a Salon. Perhaps something fancy like Salon des Intellectuels de Madame Bishonen? It has a nice ring to it and I certainly learn something everytime I visit. On second thought, should that be Mademoiselle Bishonen? *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 20:36, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * "Madame la Courtisane Bishonen" will be fine, thanks. Please all intellectuals add their own suggestions below, and vote to support or oppose others. Geogre's and Ganymead's proposed page moves are noted. I support 'em both. (Our method is approval voting.) My own suggestion is... ta da!


 * Les Précieuses ridicules


 * Bishonen | talk 22:15, 25 January 2006 (UTC).


 * How about "that odd gal who has the funny name and seems to be awfully clever"? Sam Korn (smoddy) 22:18, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
 * [Titter]. Not the person! The page! --Bishonen | talk 22:19, 25 January 2006 (UTC).

Since bluestockings and red hat society are taken, I suggest we be the Velour Track Suit Salon. Geogre 01:43, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Methinks Velour Track Suits seem awfully plebeian for our distinguished group of ivory towers. *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 02:32, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Of course with a name like that we could serve Deep fried Twinkies. *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 02:46, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but we need to think of the merchandizing opportunities. The Red Hatters, in particular, have milked their non-salon for millions of dollars. A few ladies of a certain age play bridge, one of them puts on a hat, and the next thing you know the virtual experience is being sold with hats, scarves, books, and jackets. Geogre 12:48, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for voting!
Hello there! I wanted to thank you for taking the time to vote on my arbitration commitee nomination. Although it was not successful, I appreciate the time you spent to read my statement and questions and for then voting, either positively or negativly. Again, thank you!  Páll  (Die pienk olifant) 22:33, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Do you mean die rose oliphant? Because thats what it would be in German. Republican91 22:27, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Sigh...
Just when I thought some sort of breakthrough had occurred, he goes and does stuff like this. android 79  22:02, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Is it possible for a complainant on an accepted case to propose an injunction? android 79  23:24, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, it's done, after a lengthy delay. (Who or what is "Mr K", by the way?) android  79  18:45, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I should have said "Joseph K.", I didn't remember it right, and now I don't like to again ask the person who adapted the images from User:Denelson83's set so neatly for me. Joseph K. is the mystified hero of Kafka's The Trial. Hey, if you should happen to have photoshopping skills, feel free...! :-) Your Beckjord evidence looks great. Bishonen | talk 18:59, 29 January 2006 (UTC).
 * I've got mad MS Paint skillz, but that's probably not what you were looking for... android  79  19:05, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I Photoshop (I Robot, too, but that's another matter), but I'd change it to "Gregor Samsa" so that my comment, below, makes sense. I didn't like The Trial as much. Geogre 11:25, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Please unblock Fighter For Freedom
He is a person I met at the VFW hospital, and I dont think his conduct should be blocked, he was only exersising his freedom of speech. Just because you dont agree with him doesnt mean you can silence him. Additionally, his sister is mentally retarded, I know that because I met her. FFF has diabetes. Republican91 22:25, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I've replied on WP:ANI. Please don't post on this page again, it will be removed. Bishonen | talk 23:06, 27 January 2006 (UTC).

Kräftskiva
User:Dcastor has uploaded a couple of colourful pictures to WikiCommons to be used whenever someone feels like writing the article Kräftskiva (or perhaps Swedish crayfish party, to be in accordance with WP:UE). u p p l a n d 07:28, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Rejoice in the blueness of the link. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 20:06, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Input on what to do about the no-doubt subversive Finnish crayfish party or Rapujuhlat would be welcome on Talk:Kräftskiva.

Info on my ANI post
Hi, thanks for taking a look at this problem. The comment you mentioned on his page was only left by the administrator MONGO after I made this latest complaint.

Here are the IPs I know of that he has used. These are the ones that started following my edits, starting in September (the second one is mostly a list of articles I had been editing). You will see the same pattern of articles that match my own by dates. I stopped editing between sometime in late October and early January, so I don't know what other IPs he might have used in the meantime.

The other connection running through the IPs is a focus on Chinese-related articles, specifically negative edits pertaining to the Falun Gong on pages like The Epoch Times.

Now, September is when he first became a problem. Initially it was just a matter of his personal attacks and POV pushing, some of which I noticed and reverted. Because I didn't satisfactorily discuss a particular article with him, I was blocked by User:Rama. I made a post on ANI about this, which mostly focuses on Rama's actions. I don't have the diff (it was in September) but it's archived. 

Meanwhile, the anon IPs started to follow my edits (and sometimes others') and harass and insult various users. Here are just a few examples. Phrases like, "fuck off and die", "retarded", "Americocrap", etc. One that I recall (but can't find ATM) is, "I piss on your bloody Americrap flag." As you mentioned, one of the IPs was warned several times for this, and blocked. He evaded the block by using another IP, and never discussed or apologized for the remarks. Rama chose to ignore the whole situation once my block was over (and artificially extended), and after a few more weeks I stopped editing because I did not have time to mess with it.

A little later, User:PatCheng was created, and first edits on November 1 with talk messages to Rama's page and another user complaining about me. 


 * Hello, TJive has repeatedly deleting off sections of articles he don't agree with without consensus. . Several months ago he has been warned by Rama, and he's back doing it again

So the account is started to post talk comments which reference my dispute with him specifically, and is only used a few more times during the remainder of the year, reverting the Human rights in Cuba and Fidel Castro articles, and trolling a talk page. January sees the beginning of renewed activity for "PatCheng", when I started editing again. Both PatCheng and this anon start moving "No Gun Ri incident" to "No Gun Ri massacre". His only comments in talk (as seen elsewhere) are to disparage me. This message, by the way, is a tacit admission that he is the anon (not that he has denied it), who also tried to delete a message on that talk page pertaining to him. For my first January ANI report, see this diff but also this archive. The page warns that longer messages get ignored, which this was. Unfortunately, shorter messages mean "I need more evidence". So, happily, I have obliged.

It has gotten to the point now where, for a few weeks, I have been forced to revert several articles daily just for my edits to stay on the site at all. This has led several times to other users complaining to me that I am engaging in an inappropriate edit war and my having to explain every single time that something else is going on.

Thanks for taking the time to look at this. --TJive 02:21, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

RE: Thanks
No problem, always happy to help ;-) — M o e   ε  06:20, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Angry...
I tried to contribute positively but it seems you wouldn't give me the chance. Just so you know I started 2 articles before the block and now I am trying to add an image. One more block and I will return to the dark side. 70.245.146.22


 * Anger leads to the dark side, et cetera, but please link those articles here. This way, myself and others would be afforded a chance to read them, know what they are titled as, what they are made out of, and so on. Thank you in advance! El_C 06:47, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

User:Sagaram's edits at Kerala
Hi, Bishonen. I need an admin's help to deal w/ repeated unexplained deletion of referenced material by a (deletion 1, deletion 2, deletion 3, deletion 4). I've left messages asking him to either explain why (through edit summaries, the talk page, or whatever) (s)he's removing the material. The user refuses to explain these deletions. Do you have suggestions? Thanks. Saravask 06:54, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry for wasting your time &mdash; I put a note at WP:AIAV, and the user was blocked. I'll use that in the future. Thanks. Saravask 07:18, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Ask any time, but I'm on CET — I was asleep! Glad it worked out. Bishonen | talk 13:55, 29 January 2006 (UTC).

This morning's crossword
I am one clue from winning £100 in this morning's newspaper crossword - so please help me:

Incapable of being found our or discovered (15) "U?A?C?R?A???B?E"  My children will have to come out of school if I don't win this. Giano | talk 11:33, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Unascertainable? Bishonen | talk 12:53, 29 January 2006 (UTC).
 * You are Colley Cibber, and you want your £10! (10% finisher's fee.) Geogre 13:04, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh you are clever - I'll go and post it now, on my way to the pub. Ths children can all come off the internet, reading thesaurus and dictionary and gou outside a play football.  Are you sure it's a word though?  Oh I love you! Giano | talk 13:14, 29 January 2006 (UTC) (5% - I think, I had done the other 57 clues on my own!)
 * Well it's in the post. How shall we spend the money?  I do hope we win, I wonder how long it takes.   I can't imagine any one else will have all the answers - some were very tricky indeed - far trickier than you would have been able to answer on your own - I mean would you have got "to care for and preserve" - maintain?  No I thought not, but my 15 year old did - chip off the old block that one, sharp witted, he wants a pack of Dunhill, double chip.  Oh just think of it next week I shall have my name in the Sunday papers! Giano | talk 21:03, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Happy...
I finally got the image on the article I wanted it to be on, plus now I have a total of 20 edits, I could almost see my administrator status on my user page pretty soon... :-)
 * Shao Nian Huang Fei Hong looking good there. I'll just pretend I never noticed your username in my history, and I hope you make bureaucrat.:-) Bishonen | talk 17:54, 29 January 2006 (UTC).

Before the Law
Hey, hope you're not waking from unsettled dreams and that the only apple you have to worry about is the one you use to post on the Internet. (Taking a break from grading some of the most depressing essays ever. I started with the day release apprentices.)  Geogre 19:30, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The Bathos warrior has an account now, and he's back trying to say that bathos is the same thing as undercutting, litotes, and humor. (sigh)  See his recent edit summary for a truly spectacular case of circular reasoning.  Geogre 14:04, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

I predict 200 by the close of business on Friday, but Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, and I'm no medium. (In fact, I'm not well done, either, but more raw.) Geogre 03:29, 31 January 2006 (UTC) I need to think of something useful to be #200. Geogre 19:18, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) Monan = 194. Geogre 16:20, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
 * 2) James Worsdale = 195. Geogre 16:40, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
 * 3) Elizabeth Montagu = 196. There it ends for today.  Geogre 18:30, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) Giles Jacob = 197
 * 2) Elinor James = 198
 * 3) Giles Mompesson = 199!

Pronoun apology
Hiya, while gathering the RfC/RfAr info, I noticed that I was using the incorrect pronoun to refer to you. I have gone through and changed the "he" and "him" pronouns on my talk page to your correct gender. Please accept my apology on this -- it was not my intent to misrepresent you. If I missed any locations, please let me know and I will fix them ASAP. Elonka 19:41, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Help
I paste my request for admin on the Wikipedia: Requests for adminship page, but they keep voting against me and some even tried to block me help!!!!! Could you vote for me? :-|


 * I hope you're kidding. Stop pasting it in there or all your IP's will be belong to us.

Color me confused
... sockpuppet? Doppelgänger? j00 bin hax0rd? android 79  20:28, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for spotting that, Android! I've blocked Bishounen indefinitely as an impostor/too similar. I guess the confusing part came because I had already created the Bishounen userpages, long time ago, and redirected them to mine (in case somebody was looking for me and misspelled). The account may have been created without any bad intentions, though if so the redirects must have made them sense something wasn't right. Now to keep an eye out for the autoblocker and unblock if Bishounen tries to edit under another name. Bishonen | talk 21:04, 30 January 2006 (UTC).
 * No problemo. I almost blocked the account myself, but wanted to make sure it wasn't yours. Psst... help needed at Bigfoot... android  79  21:11, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Anon creating archive pages
Hello,

An anon IP is creating archive pages for you, see []. Is this you, non-logged in? . I was confused, the anon was blanking instead, someone already blocked and reverted. -- Curps 23:30, 30 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Twice in 24 hours, too. Actually, the last one was doing a Willy impersonation.  Geogre 23:37, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks, guys. Blanking my archives...? And that was all that IP did, apparently. I don't see any moves, Geogre, where are they? Maybe I need to stop the admin thing anyway. Most admin actions are synonymous with pissing off vandals and, uh, problem users, and I don't have the skills to make sense of those weird retaliations. Sigh. :-( Bishonen | talk 23:52, 30 January 2006 (UTC).
 * No, I meant Groundskeeper Willie from The Simpsons, although the other Willy is possibly what he meant, too. He blanked your user page and wrote, "No one plays with Willie."  I assumed that was a Simpsons quote.  Maybe, instead, it was the confession of a personal problem.  Geogre 03:28, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, that. Yeah, my userpages are vandalized all the time, y'know [proudly]. It was the archive thing that bothered me, especially the speed with which it was done — a bot? Mebbe I should semiprotect my userpage again, I don't want to wear out the nice people who watch and revert (love you, guys). Geogre, did you happen to notice this, and these? Hope you don't begrudge your tulip. :-) Bishonen | talk 03:50, 31 January 2006 (UTC).
 * Oh. Well, the tulip is kind of my highest award, but once an award is given, it belongs to the recipient.  I think Beckfnord got the Tulip of Sarcasm or Bathos.  Geogre 12:41, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

No problem
I am just glad someone has pledged to look at the situation without the predetermination that I am merely "edit warring", much less blocking me for it. --TJive 00:04, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Swedish Question
Is Wästerbottensost the same thing as Västerbotten cheese? I have made that assumption in my research and wanted to verify. Thanks. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:12, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * (Tearing up) You made a cheese stub for Västerbottenost! Marry me! Yes, anything like that is the same cheese. Your Wästerbottensost actually gets only 31 Swedish Google hits, Västerbottensost 702, and — ta da! — Västerbottenost gets 240,000 hits. Google hits aren't everything, but. The W- spelling is an "olden" affectation, better not use it at all. Westerbottensost, incidentally, gets 693 hits, purely from being a protected (=stupid Ye Olde) brand name. Avoid it like the plague. Bishonen | talk 04:52, 31 January 2006 (UTC).
 * We aims to please. I wasn't tempted to mention the W spelling, but my book reference spelt it that way, so I wanted to make sure... though I was pretty confident after I got it through my distinctively monoglot skull that ost was "cheese". Västerbottensost-with-the-extra 'S' I got stuck on because that's where sv.wikipedia.org had the article. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 05:20, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Delightful, not to mention delicious, but, er, you might want to click on the link at the "Royal inauguration of the Cheese House in Burträsk" (which sounds suspiciously promotional anyway — there's a "Cheese House" in Burträsk? (Total population ≈ 8, and two dogs.)). Bishonen | talk 05:47, 31 January 2006 (UTC).
 * Fixed the link; I'm sure it is suspiciously promotional, but it may have to do for now, as English-language sources of information on Västerbottensost are scarce, even though one advertising brochure assured my that this emperor of cheeses was Sweden's most famous cheese internationally. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 15:43, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Main Page promotional banner too discreet?
Giano, the little banner running across the top of this page is very tasteful and don't think I don't appreciate it, but do you really think anybody will notice? Bishonen | talk 09:21, 31 January 2006 (UTC).
 * I am selling them, at very reasonable cost - Yours is gratis of course, but I am confident 99% of all editors will have on by the 3rd Feb. Giano | talk 09:26, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I've had one of my brainwaves,I won't sell the banner, but we will give them away to everyone who posts on this page. Just think of the various people who could all delight at seeing it on their page. Giano | talk 12:40, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I rather liked mine. It's better to have a peacock than a dick on one's page.  Geogre 12:44, 31 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Geogre - you seem to have a preocupation with "members" (as the Jesuits called them at school). Is there something you would like to share with us? Giano | talk 12:50, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, Ok, but I'll need the first three rows to stand back. Geogre 13:03, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh halitosis, I was on the wrong track completely! Giano | talk 13:57, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Having at first misread the above, I find that Giano has inadvertently provided me with a wonderful new exclamation: Oh halitosis! Paul August &#9742; 14:48, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, how about my old more Sicilian-type system with the Sic Bar banner: add it all over the place and offer to remove it for a small remuneration? Bishonen | talk 12:46, 31 January 2006 (UTC).


 * No, I'm sure you'll find the "please take one" approach will be a huge success. People won't be able to resist.  Giano | talk 12:50, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Oh, lordy, that's horrendous. Can I have one? android 79  14:05, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Heh heh. Did you pick one up yet? Android, I assure you, even if he were to go for "horrendous", Giano can never stop himself from being a man of taste. You'll see how beautiful the Peacock Banner is if you check out these. Bishonen | talk 14:21, 31 January 2006 (UTC).
 * Ah, the blink tag. Permission requested to stab out my eyes. android  79  14:24, 31 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh halitosis! Well Bish, I see (how could I not, since Giano kindly plastered ... er presented me with his lovely banner this morning &mdash; have to admit it was quite an eye-opener) that you're the proud owner of another, soon-to-be-on-the-main-page, jewel. Not having frequented FAC for a while now, I'm afraid I missed its candidacy discussion. While it is truly magnificent otherwise, I couldn't help but notice that you are using those "ugly up arrow thingies". I'm afraid had I participated in the FAC, I would have been forced to Object on those grounds. P.S. Giano: The Jebbies (Jesuits to the uniformed) usage, gives the word "remember" an interesting connotation. Paul August &#9742; 14:48, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, Paul, the FAC discussion was sometime in Late Neolithic — August, I think. If it was on FAC now, I'm sure yours is far from the only objection it would generate. Incredible as it may sound in our enlightened age, it "didn't go through Peer Review yet"! Bishonen | talk 15:42, 31 January 2006 (UTC).

I must be out of the mainstream. It's astonishingly obvious, the things being debated and debated and debated on wp:ani. I mean, it's not even partially murky, and yet the glyph of silence is over the whole thing. I wrote 3 articles, and no one put categories on them, despite my leaving them off on purpose. No one even patted my head! Then I tried to tell that Elonka lady to calm down and that that's about all that's needed, and no one noticed -- might as well have passed gas in a hurricane. Oh, I'm sure I'm just leaving them all in stunned silence. That must be it. Folks just need a way to save face. They can't admit that they were as wrong as the notorious airman who flew to Ireland from New York when he was trying to get to San Fransisco. Pride. I'm sure that's it. Why don't people think? Is it that painful? Hurts me, too, but I figure it's worth the pain. Geogre 21:24, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I misunderstood. Check again.  See e-mail.  Meanwhile, I'm still virtually the only voice crying in the wilderness, except for SlimVirgin, while some truly savory characters respond with amazing logic like, "Tough toenails, loser!"  Geogre 03:15, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Have you all had a banner yet, I seem to have some left over Giano | talk 22:36, 31 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I did my part, are you still looking for takers? Will there be a half-price sale after today? KillerChihuahua?!? 17:29, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Checkuser on Hollow Wilerding
The IP doesn't show a link, but checking the /24 (64.231.128.0/24) shows a pile of edits from Hollow Wilerding, as well as apparently uninvolved editors. So I'd call it "quite possible" given the edit pattern appears to match.

(The IP block is 64.231.128.0 - 64.231.151.255, owned by Bell Nexxia, which is part of Sympatico, which is part of Bell Canada.) - David Gerard 15:15, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Letter from Palermo
Dearest Bishonen,

Life's becoming very dull indeed around here. On behalf of us all I have been denobbling Dukes for most of the day. and dealing with those who are afraid I am personally spearheading a revolution of subterfuge to rid the world of the British upper class - heaven forbid!. Including ALoan who is behaving rather strangely at the moment, I do hope he is alright, keeps agreeing a page has no content but apparently the subject's wife was rather big in robes - negligees presumably. That nice Bunch of Grapes popped in from Idaho (he dives a horse drawn buggy you know and has lots of wives  - which must be difficult for him) anyhow he came over to plead for one of your banners. Well, he was too shy to ask outright but I knew what he wanted - so I gave him one. Unfortunately he made a rather insensitive comment on my page implying the non notable members of the peerage may be rather stupid - of course I'm speechless. I've tried to help poor Geogre too today -  between ourselves I think he has a  problem. Hardly surprising he's in ....er Georgia, and the Caucasus must be so cold at this time of year - he must realise it's just a side effect of the cold. And then just to crown it (pardon the noble pun) all poor Olgababy has disappeared from the FAC page - well as you know I'm not one to bear a grudge - especially when people have such problems already, one hardly likes to add to them. I'm sure ALoan will be better soon, least said soonest mended that's my motto. I'm about to start a new series on lesser known members of the Sicilian peerage can't let the Brits have it all their own way do you know poor old Xavier Stefano Jesus Maria Purgatorium - Marizini, 9th Duke of Chiaramonte does not have one single google mention - well we can soon fix that - c'mon all hands to the deck we have a peerage to write here. I see Proteus has just started on my tail on the Duke's lets see if we can complete the Sicilian peerage before he thinks of suitable names for them all.

Much love Giano | talk 19:23, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Theo's awake again
Have a look at his recent edit history, if I can bother you to. Maybe it's just blind rage speaking, but I'm feeling like it may be RfArb time. I'd value your opinion on that. And now to sleep. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 05:51, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * ZOMG, look at that. The RFC has improved his attitude, hasn't it? RFAR now, go, go! But mind that blood pressure. Blocked for 24 hours, incidentally. I'm utterly uninvolved with the articles and all content issues, and will continue to block for this kind of conduct if necessary. Bishonen | talk 12:34, 1 February 2006 (UTC).
 * I'm sure you've seen the RfArb by now; as always, I'm sure a comment from the very-respectable-Bishonen would lend it immediate weight. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 16:32, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * You're the best. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:43, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Best schmest — you couldn't be referring to the notorious Bishonen who makes up stuff as she goes along, could you? Riiight, that'll weigh it down. Bishonen | talk 22:53, 1 February 2006 (UTC).
 * Yes, yes, that same Bishonen HW assures us "pulls policies out her ass". It's a measure of the rampant corruption and cronyism around here that you are allowed to edit at all. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:22, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * LOL, I'd forgotten that one. Good old Hollow Wilerding, no politeness, pseudo or otherwise, about her. Bishonen | talk 23:25, 1 February 2006 (UTC).

theo's block
Did you noticed that you shortened Theo's indefinite block by User:BorgQueen (although I personally think only the ArbCom should impose indefinite blocks)? —Ruud 12:36, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Ruud, you make a great point. There is far too much cowboy attitude going on.  Blocking usernames indefinitely is sanctioned for everyone, but people have gotten so used to that that they've begun slapping indefinite blocks indiscriminately, and BorgQueen is way too new to be doing that.  (I'm over-exposed, so this is not to be understood as an opinion that I will back up anywhere.  I'm so nauseated by the debates I'm already in that I haven't enough Dramamine for another.)  Geogre 14:08, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm so nauseated by the debates I'm already in that I haven't enough Dramamine for another. You too, eh? android  79  14:11, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Ruud, no, I didn't see that. I searched the log, but apparently I didn't do it the right way. It would be helpful if blocking admins put a note on the person's talkpage like they're supposed to. :-( Bishonen | talk 15:39, 1 February 2006 (UTC).
 * Thank you for your notice, Bishonen. I have lifted the block, and you are welcome to impose a new finite block that is more appropriate for this situation (but 24 hour block wouldn't have much point in my opinion, since the user in question has had even a 48 hour block before and it obviously didn't have any corrective effect). I will leave it to you. Regards, --BorgQueen 16:24, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Bait
Hey, anyone want to fix my sloppiness? I have three new articles today: Giles Jacob, Elinor James, and Giles Mompesson. The Elinor James and Giles Mompesson articles are interesting stories. Giles Jacob isn't really interesting to anyone except maybe Bishonen, on a good day, with a tail wind, when the sun is shining, with bluebirds on Jacob's head. There were three more from Monday, too. Anyway, I'm not going to mess with any "Did you know" stuff, but the Mompesson has lots of "did you know" material, James a bit. Geogre 19:28, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid Bishonen is engaged at present, but would you like me to insert some commas or anything? "Tony 1",  I am sure says privately my grammar is remarkable. BTW did  you know that Edward Heath lived at Mompesson House in Salisbury Cathedral Close, what is the connection do you think? Nice to speak to you Geogre, how's it all doing, any advice needed just email nothing to be ashamed of, all perfectly normal! (I hope) Giano | talk 19:38, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Styles clarification
Hi, your comments would be appreciated at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_%28biographies%29. Thanks Arniep 23:08, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Way ahead of you, but thanks! Bishonen | talk 23:23, 1 February 2006 (UTC).

That RFA
I don't intend to provide the diffs. I don't think it would be fair. People can either try and find them themselves of have the admin. they deserve. To be frank that such a person can even have his name there, makes me wonder further what are we all doing here. Thanks for the tip off well spotted - such is my disillusionment with the Admin process I seldom go there. Giano | talk 08:30, 2 February 2006 (UTC)


 * You sound quite evil. What's wrong with R.D.H.? If that's what you mean by "That RfA". I'm trying to find out what's going on here! No one's talking to me! Spawn Man 01:02, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Are you talking to me? (This is my page.) Are you talking to Giano? Whichever it is, have you heard of the No personal attacks policy? You shouldn't say things like "evil" on Wikipedia, especially about people you don't know. We're not evil for saying what we think. What's wrong with R.D.H. in my opinion is that he's uncivil. Have you seen this rant he posted? Do you think admins ought to talk like that? R.D.H. is a good contributor in some ways, but I don't think he has the right temperament, or judgment, to be suitable as an admin. I also don't like it that he has never been even remotely civil to me before today, but now that he's up for adminship, and has seen from Giano's page that I've spotted it (so that he can guess I may oppose him for his rudeness that I've seen so much of), he's suddenly all over me with fine compliments, and all over Giano, too. Look at User talk:Giano and you'll see these compliments. At the same time R.D.H. is insulting Giano on other pages. That to me is not a sincere person. Giano writes "That RfA" in the headline because he's replying to my post here. Giano and I use these mysterious headlines because we don't want to mention R.D.H. in nasty ways and embarrass him all over the place. (I don't dislike him at all, I just don't think he'd make a very good admin.) Bishonen | talk 01:39, 3 February 2006 (UTC).

Showing me what R.D.H. has written has changed my mind significantly. Thanks for showing it to me for I now know what's going on & I agree with him totally! His comments are well put & show no real personal attacks. As for the ranting, it sounded more like an annoyed exclamation to me... I said you sounded evil from the way you seemed to talk (Giano I mean) in a secret code with the "That RfA". R.D.H. isn't one to grease up to someone just because he's on RfA, which he doesn't really care if he gets in or not. You & Giano & everyone else who's names I can't remember are all blowing everything out of preportion. Let it go & lets be civil. Forget the past, whatever it may be, but I'm suspecting it boiled up about the Tony1 RfA. Thanks, Bye, Spawn Man 02:09, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Forget the past? OK, lets make away with WP:RFA, then, since RFAs are 100% about the past. What an editor has done in the past is the only thing anybody has to go on when voting suport or oppose. Yes, when voting support, too! You're not making sense. Goodbye. Bishonen | talk 02:39, 3 February 2006 (UTC).

Me no comprehénde bullsí shìöté. Ke? Fine, continue as you were with your abusive ways. I just have two words for you: Mashkara Fruntói. Bye, heh..... Spawn Man 03:25, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Hellooooooo! I'm Back!!! :-)
Hello Bishonen I'm back and ready to try out for administrator, except some people try to block me whenever I try, plus could you vote for me next time? Much Love, Giano


 * Except your name's User:Dynamic. Well? How can you be Giano & Dynamic at the same time? Strange... Spawn Man 01:26, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for telling me who it was, Spawn Man. Dynamic likes to make stupid jokes, that's all. I've always tried to be friendly to him, I'm disappointed that he'd try a dumb stunt like pretending he was Giano. Bishonen | talk 01:39, 3 February 2006 (UTC).

About this "gay porno" link editor on featured article
Thank you for trying to stop him; however his edit led me to getting a virus and having to restart my computer. I want his IP address hard-banned and all user accounts indefinitely blocked. NicAgent 02:01, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanx for Sprotecting the featured article
However, I think doing a total block from editing is in order - that vandal may be clever enough to get around a semi-protected page.
 * I'm sorry, I have no way of knowing the IP, because of Wikipedia privacy rules. If you're an IRCer, please go to #wikipedia on Freenode and talk to the people there, tell them you need an urgent CheckUser check. I have placed your warning on WP:ANI, I hope it gets a quick response. (Look at the bottom of the page). As for protecting, even semiprotection is against policy when it's the Main Page article, I won't do full protection. The WP:ANI community may do it if the vandal turns out to have access to accounts older than four days (that's the only way of getting round semi), but I seriously doubt it's that kind of attack. Thanks very much for your help. Bishonen | talk 02:32, 3 February 2006 (UTC).
 * Wow, Raul is fast. All fixed, semiprotection removed, see WP:ANI, and thanks again for your alert. Bishonen | talk 02:44, 3 February 2006 (UTC).

Worst. Edit summary. Ever. (And while I'm stopping by, I'd like to thank you for leaving the six real live monkeys alone while improving my banner.) &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:59, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Your summary may have given the Wikipedia is Communism vandal an idea, I reckon. Ah, yes, your banner... just a minute. Bishonen | talk 03:12, 3 February 2006 (UTC).
 * I don't think its very nice to play arownd with banners that you have very kindly been given as a gift. Don't worry I'm not very hurt, I know when I'm not wanted...sniff...Giano | talk 13:20, 3 February 2006 (UTC) (yes it is the real me)
 * (Reproachfully.] G'como! I would never play around with my banner that I treasure so much! I played around with Bunchofgrapes' banner. Who could possibly object to that? Bishonen | talk 13:46, 3 February 2006 (UTC).
 * That's OK then. I knew you'd want to keep it up there......always! (contented sigh) Giano | talk 13:53, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * OMG. I mean, yes, of course. I only hope somebody doesn't come along and steal it when the FA changes. Bishonen | talk 13:55, 3 February 2006 (UTC).
 * Don't you worry about that, I've hundreds left over to replace it the second anyone steels one - so you just relax and enjoy. A lasting memento of your happy day for ever. I knew you'd be pleased Giano | talk 14:01, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh what a relief. Bishonen | talk 14:03, 3 February 2006 (UTC).

You can't have gotten any sleep. What a mess. I suppose this is another reason to stop with the FA's. Sheesh. I just got lots of "booger" vandalism the last time one of mine was on the main page. You're getting a full-fledged GNAA attack. All things are part of the wearisome past, as my buddies on the island of the the Lotos say. Geogre 12:24, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm very proud of my GNAA attack! Try not to be so jealous. I hope you're right about the virus, though. If people's computers get infected, it's well beyond funny. Bishonen | talk 13:02, 3 February 2006 (UTC).

Facts of life
This is for you all to peruse while I'm out this afternoon - I think it's fascinating Giano | talk 14:45, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) In the 1400's a law was set forth that a man was not allowed to beat his wife with a stick no thicker than his thumb. Hence we have "the rule of thumb"
 * Not a law, but common law, and thus, not set forth. Swatjester 15:28, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Our rule of thumb says "the term "Rule of Thumb" was first documented in 1692" -- ALoan (Talk) 16:03, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) The first couple to be shown in bed together on prime time TV were Fred and Wilma Flintstone.
 * 2) Every day more money is printed for Monopoly than the US Treasury.
 * 3) Coca-Cola was originally green.
 * Coca cola says "One false legend claims that Coke was once green" -- ALoan (Talk) 16:03, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) It is impossible to lick your elbow.
 * 2) The State with the highest percentage of people who walk to work: Alaska
 * 3) The percentage of Africa that is wilderness: 28%
 * 4) The percentage of North America that is wilderness: 38%
 * 5) he cost of raising a medium-size dog to the age of eleven: $6,400
 * 6) The average number of people airborne over the US any given hour: 61,000
 * 7) Intelligent people have more zinc and copper in their hair.
 * 8) The first novel ever written on a typewriter: Tom Sawyer.
 * 9) The San Francisco Cable cars are the only mobile National Monuments.
 * 10) Each king in a deck of playing cards represents a great king from history:
 * Spades - King David
 * Hearts - Charlemagne
 * Clubs -Alexander, the Great
 * Diamonds - Julius Caesar
 * Oh, nonsense. The King of Hearts is 'Enery the Eighth, who else? Bishonen | talk 16:01, 3 February 2006 (UTC).
 * 1) If a statue in the park of a person on a horse has both front legs in the air, the person died in battle. If the horse has one front leg in the air the person died as a result of wounds received in battle. If the horse has all four legs on the ground, the person died of natural causes.
 * this is untrue. See snopes.com Swatjester 15:26, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Indeed it is untrue. The statue of Andrew Jackson in Jackson Square in New Orleans has two legs in the air. Jackson, according to our article died of TB. *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 17:36, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Probably gave him a second hand horse! Giano | talk 17:40, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) Only two people signed the Declaration of Independence on July 4th, John Hancock and Charles Thomson. Most of the rest signed on August 2, but the last signature wasn't added until 5 years later.
 * 2) Q. Half of all Americans live within 50 miles of what? A. Their birthplace
 * 3) Q. Most boat owners name their boats. What is the most popular boat name requested? A. Obsession
 * 4) Q. If you were to spell out numbers, how far would you have to go until you would find the letter "A"? A. One thousand
 * Pah. "One hundred and one". -- ALoan (Talk) 16:03, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * technically that's incorrect grammar.....It goes One hundred, One hundred one, One hundred two, etc. The quantifier AND is gramatically reseved for fractions or decimals. Swatjester 19:41, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * 1) Q. What do bulletproof vests, fire escapes, windshield wipers, and laser printers all have in common? A. All invented by women.
 * also, debatable. Swatjester 15:26, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) Q. What is the only food that doesn't spoil? A. Honey
 * plenty of other food does not spoil. Swatjester 15:26, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) Q. Which day are there more collect calls than any other day of the year? A. Father's Day
 * 2) In Shakespeare's time, mattresses were secured on bed frames by ropes. When you pulled on the ropes the mattress tightened, making the bed firmer to sleep on. Hence the phrase......... "goodnight, sleep tight."
 * Not completely true...first, rope beds were common until the early twentieth century arrived and they were replaced by box springs. So, while yes, they were common in Shakespeare's time they were in use for a good while after that as well. Also, the matresses were not secured to the frame by the ropes, but the ropes are what the matress rested upon. I have lain on a rope bed and can attest that they are damn comfortable. *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 17:40, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * probably from a bondage game I expect. Giano | talk 17:49, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The last time I played a bondage game I...well...I ended up...well, just take a look at the pic on my user page. BTW, the chains were horribly uncomfortable! *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 19:38, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * That is enough to turn someone off sex for life! - another one from Georgia which explains it. Giano | talk 14:21, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * 1) It was the accepted practice in Babylon 4,000 years ago that for a month after the wedding, the bride's father would supply his son-in-law with all the mead he could drink. Mead is a honey beer and because their calendar was lunar based, this period was called the honey month .which we know today as the honeymoon.
 * 2) In English pubs, ale is ordered by pints and quarts... So in old England, when customers got unruly, the bartender would yell at them "Mind your pints and quarts, and settle down." It's where we get the phrase "mind your P's and Q's"
 * Well, List of idioms in the English language says "Exact origin unknown (it is subject to many explanations), however, it is likely somehow tied to the fact that the lowercase letters "p" and "q" mirror each other" -- ALoan (Talk) 16:03, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) Many years ago in England, pub frequenters had a whistle baked into the rim, or handle, of their ceramic cups. When they needed a refill, they used the whistle to get some service. "Wet your whistle" is the phrase inspired by this practice.

FINALLY - At least 75% of people who read this will try to lick their elbow.
 * Look! Could I jusy point out here, I did not write this - I merely pass on what my son sends me from America, which I beleive is a large place on the other side of the world inhabited by red Indians, settlers, and people driving horse buggies full of wives, so I cannot vouch for the accuracy. OK? Giano | talk 16:08, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

help wanted
Can I get you to help me with a mediation I'm conducting at Talk:Neuro-linguistic programming? I stepped in with an outside view and was immediately personally attacked. I need some administrator firepower watching my back while I do this. Also, since I'm planning on becoming an administrator once I have more experience on wikipedia, having one watch my first mediation attempt would be helpful knowledge for me. Swatjester 15:28, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Very sorry, Swatjester, I'm fully extended and then some. I'd love to help, as a small return for your valiant attempt to dent Giano's credulousness, but I'm afraid you'll have to ask someone else. If you're an IRCer, #wikipedia on Freenode is a good place for it. Hope the mediation works out. Bishonen | talk 16:08, 3 February 2006 (UTC).


 * not a problem. Swatjester 19:06, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Power-mad robots
It may interest you to know that we are all power-mad robots. I cannot speak for myself, but I always suspected you were. No mention of dancing, flying, or otherwise engaged monkeys. KillerChihuahua?!? 19:04, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Beckjord's page entertains me. Swatjester 19:07, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * As a robot, I find I enjoy power, certainly... how else to recharge my servos and fuel my positronic brain? But power mad? That is taking it too far. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes  (talk) 19:33, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I use a surge protector to keep me from getting too much power and going mad. (Did you hear about the megalomaniac who could spell?  He went pewter mad.)  Geogre 19:55, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Why, yes, I am, DeadlyPuppy, and a robot that doesn't do anything much, either. I'm delirious with the power of being able to get people talking to each other by the mere action condition of having a talkpage. Bishonen | talk 20:01, 3 February 2006 (UTC).


 * I'm not sure how to take that... I've never been called deadly before. Usually people call me KC, or "Murderous rodent-like canine", or simply "the puppy". But since I'm a power-mad robot, I guess it doesn't matter much, does it? KillerChihuahua?!? 20:11, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Soitanly it matters. This is where I'd post a piccie of one of those Japanese robotic pets if it wasn't for the new Fair Use brouhaha. They do look a bit like chihuahua pups. Hey, look below, you see the arbitration on Theo opened already? Wow, this is a whole new arbitration timescale! Bishonen | talk 20:32, 3 February 2006 (UTC).
 * Now it all comes together - I am a Japanese-Mexican power-mad murderous rodent-like robotic canine. Think I should change my UName to reflect this newfound clarity of my being?
 * And yes, apparently I have half the people involved on my watchlist, not to mention the Arb page. I done seen it, but I ain't gettin involved. KillerChihuahua?!? 20:39, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * The new ArbCrew does seem to have a fire in it's belly, doesn't it? I cannot believe how fast the Beckjord case has moved, either. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 20:56, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * KC, I'd rather go with some affectionate abbreviation such as KillPup if I were you. I understand about the Theo arbitration. Pity, though... you did such excellent work on the RFC talkpage. I felt like posting a comment just to say "Oh, look, this user is one in a thousand, he's even managed to get sweet little KillPup aggravated!" :-) Bishonen | talk 21:06, 3 February 2006 (UTC).


 * MurderousCanine?Swatjester 21:11, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

(reduce) Bish: Ouch, flattery! Is there nothing to which you will not stoop? I assume the "aggravation" would be a tactless reference to my implying that Theo was obtuse and stubborn? Or perhaps my pick one ultimatum? Bunchofgrapes: Is that supposed to be a pic of me? I assure you, I am both cuter and more threatening. I am still strangely tempted to ask you to cross-post it to my talk page.

Swatjester: given that your name means One who callously strikes innocent providers of humor, I suggest you be less flippant. :P KillerChihuahua?!? 21:23, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I demand you remove that smily and all traces of humor or I shall be forced to punish thee with merciless swatting. Swatjester 23:41, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Requests for arbitration/Theodore7
Hello,

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Requests for arbitration/Theodore7. Please add evidence to the evidence sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Theodore7/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Theodore7/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, --Tony Sidaway 20:21, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Question
because I see you are online - is there still no 3RR for talk pages? Trolls are infesting Abortion, I've looked but cannot find this anywhere, but I swear I saw that once before. They completely vandalized a straw poll Kyd put in, and I've posted that I will view any restoration of the mess (which was archived) as vandalism. Advice welcome. Cannot block for WP:POINT etc due to involvement with Abortion article. KillerChihuahua?!? 14:31, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Still? Still? WP:3RR applies to talkpages, discussion pages, pages like WP:FAC — the lot. The only pages that there are any reservations about (and those reservations are made explicitly, which proves it) are userpages. I didn't even realize the policy uses the term "article" — that'll be just for convenience. Of course 97.673% of all cases are articles, but that don't make no never mind, puppy, you're free to bite as well as snarl. I don't have time to go take a look, sorry. Online I may be, but I'm mysteriously busy. Bishonen | talk 14:49, 4 February 2006 (UTC).
 * k, was all I wanted to know. KillerChihuahua?!? 15:03, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Reneec
If you want to revert it, I don't mind, but could you put my comment back in when you do? User:Zoe|(talk) 23:44, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Dunces
Richard Blackmore is actually moderately full, although I'm now second-guessing its organization. He attacked Pope in 1718, but he had attacked "wits" long before. Also, he turns out to have been a fair physician, except for his stance on giving medicines to the poor (The Dispensary, which is a very good and funny poem by Garth). I may create a category or two, as we discussed, but that world is totally opaque to me, and I had enjoyed that state of innocence. Geogre 13:24, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Dunciad A II 250 ff, and then the last stanza of book II: Blackmore as "neverending Blackmore" and the contest of reading Orator Henley and Blackmore aloud to see who is most soporific (and it's a draw, as everyone falls asleep, including the law clerks). Geogre 13:38, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Ok, so there is now a category called Literary dunces. Eventually, when there are enough non-Pope dunces, I can create a Pope subcat. If you know any dunces that you've written about... Oh, what the heck! I'm going to intrude on one of your articles to tag it and leave any others to you. Geogre 14:11, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Love the shiny new cat! Oh, look, it's already quite well-populated (now that you've taken the plunge, don't forget to master the jargon). Fantastic! :-) (I've added Blackmore.) Bishonen | talk 16:30, 5 February 2006 (UTC).
 * You know, I've populated it with 25. I left Theophilus for you, but I had to jump in to grab Colley.  It occurs to me that I won't run out of biographies to do for a long, long time.  First, every figure in the category of Pope's Dunces (as soon as there are non-Pope dunces...read on) needs a real biography (some inexplicable 1911's remain like Elizabeth Heywood and Susanna Centlivre).  Second, when I finish with the Pope dunces, I can open up my books of Swift.  If I live long enough to finish all those, I can go back to Greene's edition of The political writings of Samuel Johnson.  If I finish with those, I can take a summer trip to a real library where I can get my hands on Mist's Journal or the Bond edition of Spectator.  Oh, and there are all of Fielding's plays!  It's a big century with a big sky above it.  People are surprised that I can find people to write about.  It's more surprising to not find them.  Geogre 16:40, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Blocked socks
Actually, I don't use a bot. I do them all manually, so I nearly skip the user page without reading anything about the user because of the time it takes to manually contact all canadian wikipedians. So I didn't even notice they were sockpuppets. But now that I see it, I never thought somebody could have so many sockpuppets. I will check at least the top of the user pages to see if they are blocked or something before contacting them from now on.--DarkEvil 16:14, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Occasional poetry
My Swedish-English dictionary claims that tillfällighetsdikt (or tillfällesdikt, which literary historians seem to prefer) is "occasional poem" in English, but both occasional poem and occasional poetry are red links. Is there another English word for the same thing? u p p l a n d 17:23, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Sure, Fugitive poetry. Though "fugitive piece" feels like more of a phrase to me. Anyway, also a red link. :-(. Bishonen | talk 18:08, 5 February 2006 (UTC).
 * Not Ariel verse? A verse on a specific occasion, an ariel?  Just wondering, as I haven't the vaguest idea of Swedish.  (Also, again just wondering, but there was a collection known as The Fugitives, and hence Fugitive poetry would sort of refer to them for most students of modern poetry, anyway.)  (I could, of course, be wrong.)  Geogre 18:40, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * This book says fugitive and occassional aren't the same; fugitive poetry (an 18th century phenomenon) was "little works in verse on inconsequential subjects," and lacked occasional poetry's main connotation: being produced on or intended for a special occassion. Of course, I have no idea which of the two types tillfällighetsdikt is. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 18:45, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Here's quick fugitive peom I have just knocked off to explain things for you:
 * The next day, footsteps were seen in the forest,
 * A dog, whining, wandered along the banks of the
 * river,
 * And when the damsel all in tears
 * Returned, her heart full of fears,
 * To watch from the very old tower of an antique
 * châtel,
 * She heard her sad sobs, the sad Isaure,
 * But she heard no more, the mandore
 * Of the handsome minstrel!

It's rather beautiful and touching isn't it? IHope this explains things for you. Any more questions just ask, I'm jusr sutting here with a glass of chianti in my châtel. Giano | talk 19:01, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


 * A tillfällesdikt was a poem for a particular occasion, such as a death, marriage or something. It was sometimes written by a friend or family member, sometimes by a professional poet (well, as professional as they ever were at the time), for immediate payment or in the expectation of some later advantage if the occasion involved some influential family or person. Many Swedish poets of the 17th and 18th centuries supported themselves through writing that kind of poetry, including some of the best known ones such as Carl Michael Bellman, who would also parody the genre (as he parodied everything else) in his other poems and songs. (No point, I guess, in mentioning Lasse Lucidor, Johan Runius or Israel Holmström, as they will all be red. Yep.) u p p l a n d 19:06, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I've always called that "occasional verse" and "ariel verse" in general and "ode" and "elegy" in particular (and "birthday poem" or "anniversary" (which is a birthday)). Lots of 17th c. poets in England paid for their food that way, too.  (Robert Gould tried it.  Then he wrote a poem calling all women wh*res and sold out every copy.)  Geogre 19:09, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I thought so. I suppose it may be too diverse in its literary forms, but I assume an interesting article could be written on the social historical aspect of occasional verse. You may take this as a subtle hint that one of you literary types should do this... u p p l a n d 19:49, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Pompe the dead dog
Israel Holmström was a caroline poet best known for his epigram over the favourite dog of Charles XII, which died in 1703.

Below is my attempt at an English translation, not very metric and with no rhyme, obviously. Not sure if it can be improved.

Poor Pompe used to have a substub here, but the page was redirected to a disease by somebody with no interest in the history of Royal Swedish Dogdom. There is actually quite a bit written on that dog both in contemporary sources and by later writers such as Heidenstam.

Holmström had a weakness for dead royal pets. He also wrote Grafskrift öfwer Kung Carl XII:s Björn, som föll genom en glugg och slog ihjäl sig, "Epitaph over King Charles XII's bear which fell through a hole and was killed"; apparently the bear had had a bit too much Spanish wine at dinner and stumbled to his death. u p p l a n d 15:14, 6 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I take it as an implied threat that you are spending so much time discussing the death of dogs. Please cease at once or I will be forced to gnaw your ankles. :P
 * KillerChihuahua?!? 15:39, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Alexander Pope famously wrote An epigram for the collar of a dog presented to his majesty:
 * I am His Majesty's dog at Kew.
 * Pray tell me, Sir, whose dog are you?

He did a few dead pet poems, too. You'd have to go through the full Works to find them, though. He also did epitaphs on famous loves, like the Stanton-Harcourt Lovers, who were wooing when a thunderstorm came on. They sheltered under a tree and were hit by lightning and killed. He wrote three epitaphs for them. The first two are long and sincere and lachrymose. The last is:
 * Here lie two lovers who had the mishap,
 * Tho' very chaste people, to die of a clap.

Hard to beat that. Geogre 20:53, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Pompe still dead
&mdash; In addition, We also proclaim that the Hon. Bunchofgrapes shall, in recognition of improving the rhyme of The Most Noble Countess Bish von Bishonen's verse henceforth be known as The Very Right Honourable Baron Bunch de Grapes. Carolus]]

Enriching English poetry with a few applications of the Swedish nödrim device (the "emergency rhyme", as in, recite the poem in a mumble after a few beers and you'll find that "proud" and "stout" rhyme all right), I've come up with this cantabile version:
 * Pompe, loyal servant to the king,
 * Slept each night between his sheets.
 * Ripe of years, his journey done
 * Pomp' expir'd at Royal feets. 
 * All the maidens fair and proud
 * Yearn for modest Pompe's life.
 * All the heroes brave and stout
 * Envy Pompe's valiant death.
 * Bishonen | talk 02:52, 7 February 2006 (UTC).


 * Approximate rhymes are all well and good, but what's up with changing the rhyme scheme? AABBCDDC, please ;-) &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:29, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, appreciation of my efforts, fantastic. Otack är världens lön. Bishonen | talk 04:36, 7 February 2006 (UTC).
 * Sometimes I get this eerie feeling where I feel like I've just been insulted in Swedish. What does that mean? &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:47, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll help out here. "Otack" = "attack" "ar" = "fellow pirates" "varldens" = (notice the dotty a) "Vorlons" "lon" = (again, a dotty o) "lands."  She was saying, "My fellow pirates, attack the homeland of the Vorlons."  Since we know that the Vorlons are interstellar beaurocrats (or were those Vogons?), she is telling her fellow Vikings (sailors/pirates/persons of the sea) to attack the beaurocratic objections you made. Geogre 10:57, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Arr, arr! Lower helmet horns and CHAAAAAAAAAAAARGE!!!! Dotty 12:17, 7 February 2006 (UTC).


 * Both the Vorlons and the Vogons displayed bureaucratic tendancies, but the latter more than the former. The Vorlons were enigmatic, order-loving angel-type aliens in the Babylon 5 universe (in an antagonistic relationship with the Shadows, who were enigmatic, chaos-loving spiky-spidery-type aliens - not to be confused with Cliff Richard's backing band).  The Vogons were the Douglas Adams HHGTTG interstellar bureaucrats.  I wonder who the HHGTTG admins and stewards were... -- ALoan (Talk) 13:55, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Some help you guys are. As a peace offering to the offended Viking/Vogon, I've got a AA rhyming couplet to start with:
 * Pompe, King's servant loyal
 * Slept upon the mattress royal.
 * That Geogre character is so full of it. Otack är världens lön, loosely translatable as "Show me your tattoo", is simply a traditional Nordic mobster threat. Sven Porcelain-Helmet 16:15, 7 February 2006 (UTC).


 * Show me your tattoo? Nordic mobster?  I think I need to lie down. -- ALoan (Talk) 16:59, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * That bloody dog will start to smell if you don't bury him soon - Thanks for the lovely peom, why is it all in squiggles are whatever they are called? Giano | talk 17:23, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah [shrug], I dunno, ALoan, it's vaguely threatening, is all. As in "It is useful to be able to flip between the WIAFXen with one click." — "Useful? Show me your tattoo!" Squiggles Twainbeard 17:36, 7 February 2006 (UTC).

Your input desired
On the talk page to Category: Literary dunces. Someone objects to the name of the category. Geogre 20:31, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I have inputted like Solomon the Wise (=even-handedly.) --Bishonen | talk 20:52, 5 February 2006 (UTC).
 * Ok, I constrained the category somewhat. I don't want it renamed, though, as I think "victims of satire" would be too nebulous to be of any use.  As for Ignoramus, I'm pouting.  Geogre 21:07, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * You're cute when you pout. Bishonen | talk 21:26, 5 February 2006 (UTC).

Oh, and watch this: John Tutchin, Nathaniel Mist and Thomas Hanmer. :-) See if those change, oh, let's say color, in the next few days. :-)  Geogre 21:09, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll regret it (as A in Either/Or says in his famous (to me) tautology of regret, always) but I've decided that Nathaniel Mist will be #200. He was a real hack and disliked politico, so that makes him fit, I guess.  Geogre 14:08, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
 * And now, ladies and gentlemen, de novo article #200 from my keyboard: I present to you the troubled life of Nathaniel Mist. Geogre 15:52, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
 * But wait, there's more! I present a tiny little ditty known as John Misaubin.  Now how much would you pay?  Geogre 16:02, 6 February 2006 (UTC)  (This is in case, as is frequently alleged, I cannot count.)

Requests for adminship/Ec5618
I'm not sure what just happened. Could you please explain the reason you withdrew support? -- Ec5618 01:12, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Having self identified
As being immune to our mind control program, the pod people will now switch from "assimilate" to "destroy". Thank you for saving us the trouble of the brain scan. brenneman (t) (c) 22:44, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Què? Bishonen | talk 22:49, 6 February 2006 (UTC).
 * Dada performance art? You know, you crazy rebel, how dare you think for yourself, you've foiled my nefarious plan, there was a personality-subversion virus in the section you refused to edit, etc.  I was indicating approval of your comment, and thought that was obvious from my tone.  Sorry if I'm crytic to the point of obfuscation, the injections to cure my sense of humour haven't kicked in.
 * brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c) 23:10, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
 * No worries, the Bishzillaprobe is coming to reprogram you as soon as Tokyo's good and destroyed. Bishonen | talk 23:17, 6 February 2006 (UTC).


 * DANGER WILL ROBINSON! Swatjester 23:43, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Wrong cheesy ref: you want Ultra Man. KillerChihuahua?!? 23:53, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Heh, I know, but I just love that phrase....you can say Danger Will Robinson!!! whenever you want. The only more useful phrase is "SNAKES ON A PLANE!!!" &rArr;    SWAT Jester   [[Image:Flag_of_Iceland.svg|18px|]]  Ready    Aim    Fire!  02:58, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

(I think anyone who self-identifies in history as thinking that Excelsior (Longfellow) is so good that he can't understand why it was ever considered for deletion ought to have his head examined. Or at least hats being out of fashion he has no use for his head.)  Geogre 01:34, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Probably the same guy who not too long ago claimed something to the effect that it made a mockery of a serious encyclopedia project to even think about deleting an article on a Snoop Dog bootleg remix album that may or may not have been released in Japan once. If it wasn't him, it was another one of the I-sign-with-my-real-name crowd; sometimes I have trouble keeping them straight. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 03:54, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * It's more difficult to straighten out some people than others, especially when they are certain they have sole ownership of the straight path. ("Out of the crooked timber of humanity no straight thing can ever be made" -- Immanuel Kant.)  Geogre 11:27, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

My RFA
Hey, Bishonen, I wanted to thank you for your support of my (unfortunately unsuccessful) request for adminship. The final tally was 37/16/5, which fell short of the needed 75-80% for "consensus". Your very kind words and thought-out reasoning for your vote really meant a lot to me. What really struck me was how even though my RFA was pretty much a lost cause at that point, you still gave a reasoned, thoughtful vote for me, which made me feel an awful lot better. I don't know if or when I'll go up for nomination again, but even if I don't, I will try not to betray the trust that you and 36 others were willing to place in me. Thanks for having faith in me... and happy editing! (Though you might want to archive your talk page!) <b style="color:#DF0001;">Matt Yeager</b> <b style="font-size:medium; color:#B46611;">♫</b> ( Talk? ) 01:17, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I hope you do try again, I think you're an extremely worthy candidate — I don't understand what happened there. :-( Everybody's on my case about the archiving as usual... how about you complainers invest in some 21st century software or something? I do archive this chatboard every few days as it is, you know! Bishonen | talk 01:30, 7 February 2006 (UTC).

Requests for arbitration/Beckjord
A final decision has been reached in this arbitration case.

For the arbitration committee. --Tony Sidaway 06:18, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

As to the surreal aspects: The one year ban was added by the other arbitrators after discussion on irc and the arbcom-l mailing list. It is based on the notion that he is unlikely to anything but cause trouble. The other remedies kick in after the end of the one year ban. Fred Bauder 21:11, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Rfa??
Hey Bishonen, I was thinking of applying for adminship. I was wondering if you'd have a look at this User:Swatjester/admintest, my test page on it. Thoughts? &rArr;   SWAT Jester     Ready    Aim    Fire!  22:29, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Since you ask, I will share my thoughts bluntly. I approve of selfnoms. But you express a special regard for the (IMO) three most abused policies/principles in this place, WP:AGF, WP:NPA and "adminship should be no big deal", so you'll hardly find me or those who think like me supporting you. I never yet met a wikilawyering troll who didn't have his/her mouth hypocritically full of those three — indeed, those often seem to be the only polices they've heard of. If applied from good motives (which I'm sure you would do!) those three policies/principles may be beneficial, but I still believe them to be less important than half a dozen others. Bishonen | talk 00:32, 8 February 2006 (UTC).

Cool, thanks for the blunt advice. BTW, I'm taking the liberty of correcting my original post for my new page location. I've also reworked it a bit. I would like to clarify though, I think that AGF and NPA in particular are so important because they're most often ignored. When you look at some of the users that on wikipedia that you most respect, do you ever even once or twice see them violating AGF and NPA? Not me. Hence my adoption of those as my role models. Rest assured I'm applying them from good motives. The no big deal is less of a thing for me, and I've edited my test application to reflect this. Thanks for the constructive criticisms. &rArr;   SWAT Jester     Ready    Aim    Fire!  02:57, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Re: El C
Rather than get into the discussion on the talk page, I thought I'd respond here. When I said tragedy, I meant that him being gone at all is a tragedy, as he does a lot of good work. As for "the last thing he'd want" I was referring to the edit warring; I'm sure he'd want his page returned to his version, but I think he'd rather have both sides discuss it rather than have an edit war.

Beyond just wanting to see the edit war stop, there was a call for stewards to get involved, and I was hoping to prevent a repeat of Sunday night. It seems to have worked, for the most part. Essjay Talk •  Contact 02:39, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

203-4
At the risk of missing yet another policy crisis, I'm going to try to fix Eliza Haywood and (get this) Charles Johnson (pirate biographer), if not Charles Cotton. It turns out that 201 wasn't 201. I had forgotten that I wrote privileged presses, so my count was off by at least one (I have a feeling there are more like that that I thought too small or insignificant to count when I started the brag list). I appreciate the couch and the just desserts. If there is another massive crisis, do let me know, esp. if it concerns policy rather than personality (my predilection). Anything to avoid grading papers. Geogre 14:09, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, Charles Cotton is too 1911'ed to mess with. Geogre 14:11, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, I've been filling in redlinks too, but my new articles are almost always stubs. -- ALoan (Talk) 14:48, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * "Be careful of that Ming vaaahs! Oh, you rube!" Well, prepare yourselves for Charles Johnson-not-the-pirate-biographer and probably a rip-'em-up-and-rewrite Susanna Centlivre and definitely a George Duckett.  I'm trying to blue all the links in Dunciad so that I can go on and finish it and FAC it, prolly, but some links just have to stay red (the Thorold, Lord Mayor of London in 1717; I know his family from the DNB, but this particular Thorold didn't make the cut).  Geogre 16:03, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, who would leave Qing dynasty vases worth £100,000 on a mantelpiece where any old klutz can trip into them. But those two are about 1500 years older than that. -- ALoan (Talk) 17:15, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I read Sallust, but I don't remember his talking about his garden gnomes. (I didn't think he was overly rich, either, but he was a retired general, so maybe.)  Were you filling in Wedgewood?
 * He had nice gardens, apparently, but also redlinked bluelinked now, but in the process creating another half dozen redlinks. No, I was filling in redlinks from a titbit I added recently to Waterloo Vase. -- ALoan (Talk) 17:48, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Hey, Bishonen! You should read the Charles Johnson article. There are some juicy redlinks there that are right up your street, and there is information there relating to your interests, I think. Geogre 16:32, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I can do a nice article on a court created before I was born and abolished before I was in primary school, though. Not to mention one about the wrong profession, and a hill that is not one of the seven.  (Giano should add to all of those.)  And a recently-dead Law Lord and an obscure Irish poet.  Ha!  Who needs featured articles when there are so many redlinks. -- ALoan (Talk) 18:31, 9 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Wow. At least I have a theme.  You're all over the taxonomical map!  I do like that last one, though.  I must see "what links here" from it.  Geogre 20:40, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Is this the right section on Bish's out-of-control chatroom (wait, I thought it was a salon) for crowing about de novo articles and begging people to fill in your red links? I was scandalized earlier today to learn we lacked an article on gumboot chiton: no longer, my friends, no longer. And just look at that succulent, tantalising red-linked lurid rocksnail...! &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:48, 10 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Chiton gumbo...mmmmmmmmmmmm..... </Homer> As for that rocksnail, the whole neighborhood has been complaining about her behavior, and I don't think that hussy should be anything but scarlet!  Geogre 11:29, 10 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey, Bishonen! I made some links to Vanbrugh and Cibber: I just did a nave to narthex rewrite of Susanna Centlivre.  The 1911 had at least 3 errors of fact in it.  Geogre 18:32, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Only three? You're kidding me. Cool article! I'm thinking I might (read and) do a shortie on The Basset Table. Oh, hey, and I'm pretty sure Susanna featured in a satirical play. Thinks... I got nothing. But I think she did, along with two other woman dramatists. Some very anti-feminist piece. Did you come across anything like that? I could do a stub, if only I could remember the title, or the author. I need to limber up before attempting any chef d'oeuvre about Thomas Betterton (better not go look, you'll die of rage, I always do). Bishonen | talk 02:29, 11 February 2006 (UTC).
 * Well, that was three errors of date, I should have said. It had errors of interpretation like you wouldn't believe.  First, it had a list of her "best" plays (oh, that's good), and it characterized her as "crude, as was the fashion of those times."  It managed three errors of chronology, two major NPOV violations, and a value-laden list all in an article that was about the length of a stub.  Then there were errors of omission: it glibly took information for Jacob, which was her own version of her story, without acknowledging that it might not be reliable.  It didn't explain how she went from poor dissenter girl to playwright.  She was blasted by Pope on three occasions, I gather, although I'm only concerned with The Dunciad.  Swift never swiped at her -- his enemies usually being more abstract and less personal -- but she was a big, juicy target for the Tory wits, as she not only took extremist Whig positions but rubbed people's noses in it after the fact.  How could you not satirize her?  I can't think of a satirical play that she features in and didn't run across any mentions (the DNB author was a fan, and it's dangerous to be anything else these days, lest one be the m-word).  She's too late for my buddy Gould to have swatted, but he sure would have, if he'd been writing then (the three marriages would have been enough for him, and the breeches roles would have given him fodder, too).  Geogre 04:11, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Buckingham Palace
Could you put one of your very clever semi-protects on - it seems to be attracting more attention than usual for some reason. Thanks Giano | talk 20:02, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

PS: Such a pity if the magnificent bathroom fitments were to be vandalised!


 * I believe Bishonen is still on her solidarity strike against use of admin tools with El_C. Looks like the vast majority of the vandalism has been from . Blocking is therefore more appropriate than semi-protection; I've warned them and will block if they keep it up. Ping me if I overlook it. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 20:22, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Ping you? I'm afraid BoG table tennis has never neen my forte. I don't want them blocked just execute them or whatever those magic buttons do...sometimes I think I'm running this site single handedly...........mutter mutter mutter.21:14, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I certainly am. Also the "Fuckingham Palace" bit kind of appealed to outraged me...snigger snigger snigger. Giano, have you forgotten how to sign your name again? Good chianti, is it? Bishonen | talk 22:21, 8 February 2006 (UTC).
 * No the chianti has suddenly gone sour, why is that extra tagged on, and nothing in the edit summary to show I did not write it? Giano | talk 22:56, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I'm lost, what extra? What didn't you write? On my screen it simply looks like your sig is missing in the "Ping you?" post, I only see the date. (That would happen if you typed five tildes instead of four.) Do you see something else on yours? or... shudder... are you telling me the bathroom fitments have started to add themselves? This is getting frightening! I wish we'd never come up with the damn things! Bishonen | talk 23:38, 8 February 2006 (UTC).

Great. Someone deleted wp:an. Gosh, I wonder what's going to happen to him or her. (Prediction: barnstars from "I have the power" people, RFar that goes nowhere.) Geogre 00:43, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Geogre, it was Sean Black, and done to get rid of a particular edit summary. I think it may be relevant to an e-mail I got a couple of hours ago. Please check your own mail, you should have received the same message. Bishonen | talk 01:17, 9 February 2006 (UTC).
 * Yep, lucky guess. I just had a word with Sean and his intentions were of the best. No Uncle Ed stuff. So did you get that e-mail, from a victim of stalking, someone you know? I'm betting you did. Anyway, good night. Bishonen | talk 01:30, 9 February 2006 (UTC).
 * I did. It makes sense.  Geogre 12:24, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * About the only thing here that does then! Giano | talk 16:03, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

vote request
Hi I'd appreciate if you could vote below to rename per my suggestion ASAP to avoid no consensus, Thanks! Arniep 00:44, 9 February 2006 (UTC) Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_February_1.
 * Er... what? Why are you sending this to me? It seems a little random. I haven't been involved in any discussion. I don't know the issue. No, I won't vote, sorry. Bishonen | talk 12:54, 9 February 2006 (UTC).
 * Hi, sorry if I offended you. I was just trying to avoid a no consensus, that's all. The are quite a few Americans in history who are notable for having lived in the UK, Whistler, C R Leslie, Ben Franklin among others. Arniep 15:11, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Two things
&mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 00:50, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) You're an admin again, congratulations.
 * 2) Giano's goat recycling image is a Fair Use image. I didn't want to be so rude as to remove it without asking, though.
 * Thanks, I guess. I'm nevertheless far from happy about the El C situation as it currently stands. Er, why exactly am I the one to get told about the image Giano ? Bishonen | talk 12:57, 11 February 2006 (UTC).
 * Honestly, because after the Buckingham Palace conversation up there, I got so confused by what Giano was saying, I couldn't bear to find out whether he was back to the Chianti or still hitting the hard stuff. Is El C still gone from Wikipedia? Oh dear, I hope he reconsiders. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:29, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Fruitcakes for Onions
I appear to be driving to the Fruitcake Capital of the World today to tote clothing donations to the Goodwill store, so I should be out of town at 3:00 this afternoon. However, I should be in town tomorrow at that time, with only some pesky papers to grade -- and who really needs to do that? -- at work. If it's convenient, please tomorrow? Geogre 15:30, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Are these the famous onions? Tomorrow then. Bishonen | talk 17:17, 11 February 2006 (UTC).

Both the onions and fruitcake are World Famous, and both are trademarked. The first is much sought after by chefs throughout the civilized world (and Sweden, too). The latter was formerly more popular than presently. Why, every year the former town producing 50,000,000 lbs. of granex onions from an unique soil condition rendered sweet to the taste. The latter produces...a bunch...of fruitcake and is the world's #1 fruitcake town. Geogre 23:11, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Been there by now, btw, and come back already. Got a chance to play with a long haired dachshund while down there.  That dog was not fruity, but he was as nutty as a fruitcake.  Geogre 23:11, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Are you a Cadbury's Fruit and Nut case? Bishonen | talk 23:40, 11 February 2006 (UTC).

Nah, I'm just sweet and looney as a Moonpie. Geogre 03:08, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Disruptive type of vandalism
I wonder if you have any insight on how technically to deal with something. I think semi-protection should be used massively more than it is; but that's probably not going to happen. Anyway, I mentioned this certain vandal that I seem to have attracted to my talk page via maintaining the Ward Churchill page. The thing that was most troublesome about the vandalism is that this person (under ever changing usernames, but often related names along the lines of our friend "fighterforfreedom") would blank the page and replace it with, e.g. 500 copies of a picture of Bush.

The result, unfortunately, of this change is that I can never seem to load the diff to see specifically what the change is, presumably because the WP server times out before sending all that graphic data. Some other editors rolled back the vandalism of this type to my user page or user talk page, but I don't know if they had actually seen the diff, or just assumed the worst. The thing is that I can view the diff: "Vandal->Reversion" (because the page itself, below the diff, is reasonable); I just can't view the diff: "Good->Vandal". You were one such reverter, I think, so maybe you have insight.

I just found an example of the same thing on the Churchill page. A user, "Mr.Trezon" (but it'll be a different name next time), made this change, with the edit history comment like "minor spelling fix" or something innocuous seeming. I simply could not load the diff to see if it really was a proper change or if it was vandalism. As it happened, the same username had made a comment on the talk page that made me fairly sure (overtly claiming to praise Churchill, but obviously meant sarcastically). So I rolled back to the last version, but with less than perfect confidence I was reverting an actual vandal. Once I made the reversion, I could look at the prior diff, which proved my guess correct. But I don't like reverting blindly.

Any thoughts? Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 18:29, 11 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Insight, haha, that'll be the day. Sorry, Lulu. I never have reverted your page, at least not in the past month or two; I'm only in the history for writing you about Fighterforfreedom a few times. Indeed, if I couldn't load a diff, I wouldn't be bold enough to revert. I hope you get more useful replies from other people. Bishonen | talk 19:12, 11 February 2006 (UTC).


 * Oh, sorry I remembered wrong about the reversion (it wasn't either praise or condemnation to say you had, just a mistake based on the fact we had chatted about FFF around the same time some editors reverted his/her vandalism on my talk page... of course, I hereby praise you in a general way for your fine adminship :-)). Anyway... maybe someone else will have a better answer; it's frustrating not to be able to load the diffs; and it doesn't really make sense to me.  Even though 500 copies of an image (or whatever) is a long page, the image itself should only download once into the browser cache.  So the timeout perplexes me (but it's very consistent for this situation). Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 19:37, 11 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I see the page-never-loads behavior on your user page, Lulu. Pretty odd. You should ask on Village pump (technical). &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 01:30, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

e-mail
no I didn't get your e-mail. However, as my block is now over I can continue to wreak havok. Don't bother e-mailing me, just stick it on me talk page. cheers. Crestville


 * Ok, here's the God's honest truth:

''It was however pretty rude. Did you really not notice?''

Nope. I thought it was a generally polite critique

Btw, as it says on the FAC page, new nominations go at the top.

I can't say I read that bit too closely

Don't you see anything wrong with bouncing yours up to upstage newer noms, with extra attention as the top post and extra time on FAC before your article "rolls off"?

I didn't think about it thqat much

1) What was your purpose in moving the nomination to the top?

So that it hot more attention and constructive critisism.

did you notice Worldtraveller moved your nomination back down with a rather tight-lipped edit summary?

No. I never ventured to read the history page

Johnleemk also warned you that he considered your "playful jibe" a personal attack.

I would like to point out that I was quick to correct him

''C'mon, the place for "playful jibes" like that is in interchange with friends who're used to your tone and will (I presume) enjoy it! It's just foolish to hurl them at strangers, and even more foolish to keep it up when they show they've taken umbrage.''

I understand your point, but it has never proved a problem in the past.

--Crestville 22:55, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
 * lol, that's all I wanted to hear :) Thankyou!--Crestville 01:02, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Bravery
I dodged server crashes, blankings, disappearances, multiple log-ins, etc. to write John Ozell today. He's a minor dunce. However, tonight, if the servers play nice, I'll write a juicy and needed one: Robert Wilks. Not only do you and I both link to that red article several places, but the DNB authors are wholly credulous, relying only on Cibber for their information. Wheee! Geogre 18:24, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Huh, I wonder if the lockdown is over. We'll see.  If so, I'll do the Wilks article either tonight or, if my headache doesn't let up, tomorrow before driving to the local Big City.  Geogre 22:55, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Prem Rawat
Hello Bishonen. I am curious on what attracted your interest to this article, as it has been a while since last round of massive edits. If the article reads as a hagiography, I would be the first one to want to know about it. I haver put too much effort in this article to let it be in a shape that can be challenged as non-compliant with content policies. I hope I did not scare your away with my comment—although I doubt that you are scared off easily if one is to judge by your contributions to the project:). So, could you please point out what other sections need improvements? It will be much appreciated. &asymp; jossi  &asymp; t &bull; @ 01:52, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Bishonen, Hi from me too. I wonder if you would please take the time to read the argument between Jossi and me that started when Momento said that the only criticism against Rawat is that he's fat, has poor taste, etc. I answered that it was much more than that, that he once claimed to be the Lord and Saviour of Mankind. Jossi said he didn't, I provided the proof and Jossi kept denying that I had proven anything. I'm curious what you think of the relative merits of that argument. Thanks --24.69.14.159 03:45, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Robert Wilks
Check it out: Robert Wilks exists. Also, though, it turned up a shocking red link, but I'm not going to do it. Geogre 12:57, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Way cool, great! (Not reading it properly just yet, I'm basically in the middle of a class here.) Did you have a core meltdown and type Charles instead of Christopher, or is there some Rich uncle I don't know about? Bishonen | talk 13:26, 14 February 2006 (UTC).

No, that was just a "typing at 7:00 AM" phenomenon. Christopher is who I meant, and my notes had "Ch Rich," relying on my memory to expand it properly. Well, not at 7:00 AM. I'm glad you corrected it. I think there is a very large Untold Story there somewhere and that DNB did a cruddy job, but so it goes for now. Geogre 14:56, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm getting a lot of mileage out of that one Hogarth image, now added to Robert Wilks. Last chance, you know, to write about Doggett or Oldfield (suspect there's a story there too) or Centlivre.  No one venerates them.  Geogre 02:17, 15 February 2006 (UTC)


 * But you hadn't added it to William Hogarth, an omission I have now corrected! -- ALoan (Talk) 10:50, 15 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Ah, toilet paper, held up by a... That reminds me of some article I saw somewhere in the vicinity a while ago. u p p l a n d 11:20, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I got a detail of the toilet paper spindle from Hogarth for that article, although I didn't contribute otherwise, except with hints. I have a book of Hogarth prints that I do scans from, sometimes. The advantage is that I can do some very high resolution scans, so one can make out the smallest feature in a crowded lithograph, but, of course, I'm lazy, and there are already scans of The Rake's Progress and The Harlot's Progress on the web, so why bother? Geogre 14:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)


 * The image has now been added to the Toilet paper article as well. u p p l a n d 14:21, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Hey, Bishonen! I just did John Tutchin. It's a fascinating story. You might want to take a glance; he was treated very badly by Judge Jeffries in the Bloody Assizes. (Don't you other folks wish you were 18th c. people like I am? My stuff all has cool names.)  Geogre 17:46, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, and Leonard Welsted and, ummm, Edward Tremayne, I think, but the Tutchin one is the interesting one. Geogre 18:21, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I think I'm done now. I might do two more, but that's it. I'm getting tired of writing new articles for a while. Then I'll look into buffing up. I think I'll finish Dunciad, start researching some of the 100's of secondaries, adding dozens of notes, and then move it forward. If it goes to FAC, no one will be able to read it. Everyone will say it's too long. At the same time, it'll be a good place for anyone actually studying the poem. We're already the best place to find out who all the targets are. I don't think anyone understands what's necessary for understanding a poem like that or a book like the Tale. A person can spend a decade just getting who and what the poem is talking about and then another half century dealing with the poetics involved. It's a thousand miles away from the plastic self-evidencies and disposable commodities of contemporary culture. Geogre 12:21, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


 * YM "almost 300 years away from ... etc." HTH HAND. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:59, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Who's him when he's home? (Your mileage? His Terrible Highness Hand?) (James Moore Smythe is the last dunce, I think.  So...that's it, I suppose, but Smythe is a perfect example of the kind of thing that I was complaining about.)  Geogre 14:43, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


 * A bit like Judge Learned Hand, no doubt. -- ALoan (Talk) 15:20, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, I had never heard of the Learned Hand, only Band of the Hand, which, of course, was by Michael Mann, and not by Ray Ralston, who played "Mr. Hand," who was the antagonist of Sean Penn playing Jeff Spicoli, and now Sean Penn's nemesis is George W. Bush, while his nemesis is Mr. Salty, and I stopped talking to Mr. Salty years ago. Geogre 20:23, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!
Thanks for cleaning up the vandalism on my user and talk pages! Extraordinary Machine 17:06, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Prem Rawat, welcome to a hornet's nest
Hi Bishonen, thanks for your interest in Prem Rawat. I had and have endless disagreements with Jossi on this article. Numerous RFc have been filed without result.Andries 21:53, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 * For the purpose of disclosure, please note that Andries has admitted publicly that he his a "POV pusher" (see diff: ) as it pertains to articles related to purported cults, gurus and the like, due to a personal tragedy that he experienced with a guru in his past. The only reason for our disagreements is his attempt to advocate a negative POV in related articles. &asymp; jossi &asymp; t &bull; @ 00:04, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I would argue that Jossi tries to present a whitewashed POV. Andries 00:14, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * As a contributor and administrator of WP, and notwithstanding my publicly made statement about being a student of Prem Rawat, my intent in this and other biographical articles, is to follow as close as possible Biographies of living people, and to have articles that I can feel proud of. I welcome any honest attempt to make this and other articles better. I have welcomed Bishone's involvememt, in particular because of her assertion about the article not having an encyclopedic tone. I look forward to her recommendations. &asymp; jossi &asymp; t &bull; @ 00:29, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

An outsider who wants to remain one, here: the NPA thing ("personal attacks are blocking offenses," I mean) isn't quite policy, and it doesn't quite govern talk pages. It is, of course, never a good idea to engage in personal attacks, insults, etc., but there are several statutory problems with the guidelines at present that make implementing it as a policy vexatious. While I would agree with anyone who says, "Cut it out, knock it off, quit it, and cease and desist," I would similarly urge those wielding the NPA knife to be aware that it is terribly blunt, has no handle, and has a tendency to increase rather than staunch the flow of blood. Geogre 02:43, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comments, Geogre. Have you ever been the subject of verbal abuse? Personal attacks harm the very basis of this project. FYI, WP:NPA is an official policy of Wikipedia, and a crucial one IMO. I know that blocking for PA is controvresial, buit I would not hesitate in blocking any user that abuses other editors if their behavior is recurrent and disruptive. Hope that you would agree with me on this. &asymp; jossi  &asymp; t &bull; @ 03:07, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I suppose I have, but I look at it differently from most people. As I was saying, though, user talk pages are slightly shady, and blocking is slightly shady, but I quite agree that it is policy not to make them.  I also agree with you that you should not be the subject of them, and I condemn those making them.  Again, we have no disagreement there, but I've seen the overuse of the policy's non-policy part, and generally what happens is that things get worse rather than better.  Geogre 11:58, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm almost tempted to join the fracas at Prem Rawat... if only to help Bishonen in her Quixotic quest to see the article get a non-fragment lead sentence. Then again, I guess I don't need the blood pressure spike. Me and my pet gumboot chiton are happy over there far away from the madding crowd. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 03:11, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * That gumboot chiton is sooooo POV! It's an ad for gumboot chitons everywhere.  (Actually, non scriblere satiram difficile est, but there is no reductio ad absurdum that works on Wikipedia after you've seen the Price Is Right Pricing Games category and seen people threaten lawsuits over taxoboxes.)  Geogre 16:40, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I shall have to start a criticism of the gumboot chiton article, to achieve a more balanced approach. That way gumboot chiton can and should remain properly pro-gumboot. Where are these taxobox lawsuits you mention? &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:19, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * If I wasn't truly sympathetic about Theo's effect on your blood pressure, Bunch, I'd tell you stop jesting from the sidelines and go dive into the guru talkpage. I'm tired of it. Any tiniest suggestion raises indignation and screenfuls of argufying and comparisons with Pavarotti; it gets exhausting. I mean, Pavarotti. Got an FAC by User:Fuddlemark to copyedit, a more congenial task. Bishonen | talk 18:17, 16 February 2006 (UTC).
 * Bishonen, I want to thank you for your courage to go into the hornet's nest and I fully understand that you could not endure it for very long. In relation to that I would like to ask you some questions about the article. What do you think that the ranking is of the Prem Rawat article in the following lists in the whole of the English Wikipedia.
 * Most disputed
 * Most abusive talk page
 * Most reverted
 * Article with the highest ratio arguing on the talk page divided by useful edits
 * Another question, do you think that the Prem Rawat article is just an example of what is yet to come for many articles on Wikipedia or is it just an unfortunate exception? Thanks in advance for your answers. Andries 20:51, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Most abusive? You've got to be kidding me. Or else you don't edit much in topics touching on nationalism or Israel or religion or gender or, for god's sake, linguistics. You ain't seen abusive till you've seen a language talk page, or one of the nightmarish RFCs based on them Requests for comment/Antifinnugor . Heck, most posts on Talk:Prem Rawat are perfectly civil! No, but your other three lists, yes, Prem Rawat would rank sadly high on those. I'd put good money on it in the arguing/useful edits stakes. I don't know how you do it, Andries, keeping on and on trying to improve such a well-policed, clamped-down, always-bouncing-back piece. --Bishonen | talk 21:27, 16 February 2006 (UTC).
 * Jossi is right that my persistence in this matter is due to my background. If you have time, could you please comment at Wikipedia_talk:Biographies_of_living_persons. Thanks. Andries 17:39, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Happy Valentine's day!
<div style="margin-left: 14px; padding-top: 7px; padding-bottom: 7px; padding-left: 8px; padding-right: 7px; background: #f9f9f9; border:1px solid #8888aa; border-right-width:2px; border-bottom-width:2px; float: left;"> <div style="padding: 1px; background: lightsteelblue; border: width: 100px; float: center; font-family: Trebuchet MS, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt; text-align: center; font-color: #EEEEFF;"> Happy Valentine's Day, my dear Bishonen! <b style="color:#22AA00;">Phædriel</b>

Memory Alpha
I wanted your thoughts on this issue as I'm a little perplexed. Memory Alpha is a featured article, but it also appears to fail WP:WEB. Hiding talk 10:48, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Our synchronized anon block
Hi 美少年 (Bishonen in original kanji), it seems we have a thing for blocking one user at the same time. Fortunately, User:Freakofnurture had a quick sense that he fixed the problem almost immediately! Please see the block log. Thank you. --BorgQueen 18:21, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, we both watch Gay and keep an eye on Theo, I guess. Thanks very much for the kanji! I've put 'em on my userpage. :-) Bishonen | talk 19:53, 17 February 2006 (UTC).

Articles of interest
My recent article list: That's them. Geogre 02:59, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) James Moore Smythe I liked this one a lot.  I liked my writing in it, anyway.
 * 2) John Tutchin Scourged, flogged, rewarded, flogged, killed.
 * 3) Leonard Welsted Some theatrical evidence from Drury Lane 1726.  It's also interesting that he sort of stepped into the "hero of the whigs" role, and yet Pope really makes fun of how light he is, not how bad.  Ahhhhhh!  Correction from our earlier correspondence: it was Welstead who wrote The Prophecy that I read.  That's good, because I thought at the time that the poem was quite good, and I was afraid that a bad poet like Tutchin had fooled me.  Instead, it was a good poet who had fooled me with a good poem.  (Anyone want to sponsor my editing a collection entitled "The Dunces?"  It'll sell to all classes studying Dunciad.  It could reach sales in the hundreds in a single year!)
 * 4) Dulness Another "faux mythological creature in the western tradition," to use my own phrase from "Sylph," but it has some critical observation in it.
 * 5) George Duckett This one is sort of dull, IMO.  He appears to have been a dull man, too, and he's yet another of the probably gay men associated with Addison's "little senate."  There seem to be rather a lot of them.
 * 6) John Ozell This one I like, because it shows how even translators were part of the political struggle.  All he did was translate, but that was more than enough (look within to find out how), and he drew fire from Pope and Swift, which is something only Curll and Defoe can claim as well.
 * 7) Robert Wilks You've read this one, I think.
 * 8) Edward Tremayne  Elizabethan: one of the guys plotting against Mary and trusted by (and then rewarded by) Elizabeth, but Puritan.
 * Hilarity: I had cause to look again at my poor appropriation from Lempriere, Hyperborea. If you see it now, I'm going to bet you can tell where my authorship ends and very neatly where everyone else's begins. :-)  Geogre 15:49, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
 * See, now this is the way to get me to finish the article. :-)  Jossi has been fixing a lot of my dumber mistakes (thanks, man), and that makes me read it, and when I read it, I think of things to say, and I think of people I haven't explained, and that makes me want to crack the spine of the book again and do a quick jaunt through the end of Bk IV and then Explain It All before going back to grab secondaries (a storehouse of books in my head/ Forever reading never to be read).  One thing is clear, though: before I do it, I have to fix Eliza Haywood.  Until I do that, there is a hole in what has already been built, because the existing article is a 1911 dump, and it does nothing at all to explain why she'd have gotten herself into the Dunciad.  (And now I have to remember who wrote Harlequin Dr. Faustus -- it was Theobbald, I think.)  Geogre 17:28, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Harlequin Dr. Faustus was written by no one (Wilks, Cibber, and Booth), but what I was trying to remember was that Henry Carey (writer) (which needs to be cleaned up I understand to "conform to a higher standard of quality") wrote the music for it. I therefore had to amend The Dunciad to point out that plays that like were loathed by Pope, but that doesn't mean he wasn't friends or friendly with some of the stiffs who worked on them.  Geogre 21:01, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Last chance to read Eliza Haywood before I rewrite it. Really, seeing it now is as powerful an argument against the "Short Biographical Dictionary" as anyone could make. It's a disgusting article, although I added an image with caption. I will rewrite it today, and then I can rest until finishing the Book IV of Dunciad and whatever new dunces need work. Geogre 12:53, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Lucky 6.9 RfC
Please explain exactly what is wrong. I think that there may have been a software glitch, because I did use the template. Robert McClenon 18:57, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

E-mail whenever you want
You can e-mail me whenever you want. Please note that I use MSN most frequently, which may or may not be beneficial towards your preference of communication. Anyway, sorry for complaining on the FAC page, I'm just very upset right now. Take care! &mdash;Eternal Equinox | talk 19:55, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I've fixed the error. It will work now, I hope. &mdash;Eternal Equinox | talk 20:42, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I've responded. &mdash;Eternal Equinox | talk 21:17, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Requests for arbitration/Theodore7
This arbitration case has closed. Theodore7 is banned for six months from editing astrology- or astronomy-related articles. He is also placed on personal attack parole for a year, and is required to use edit summaries for the next six months. These remedies will be enforced by blocking. For further details, please see the case. On behalf of the arbitration committee, Johnleemk | Talk 09:31, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Image problems
Is there a suitable template for images that do have both source and a license, but you doubt the license is correct? My issue is pretty much every image that one particular user has uploaded I asked him about two of them; I got no reply but he removed one of the pics from the article where it was used. as far as I can judge a couple of them maybe should be labelled "logo", which is under fair use, but most of these images I rhink are unfree just lifted off various websites. What is the correct forum for this type of things? I usually just ask people about their uploaded images, but when they don't respond you've got to do something else. // Habj 14:55, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, Habj, I don't know the correct forum, but if you're an IRCer, #wikipedia on Freenode is often used for such matters, and your problem sounds to me like the kind of thing where real-time communication would be good. I keep noticing people arriving on IRC to ask image copyright questions, and there generally seems to be somebody knowledgeable about to steer them right. Bishonen | 美少年 15:15, 20 February 2006 (UTC).
 * OK, done. It ended up at Possibly unfree images, then we'll see what happens. // Habj 01:50, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Proud to be a Tarheel (aka the DNB is POV!)
I've never been happier that I chose to go to Carolina for my doctorate. My leading alternative at that time was Rochester, where a certain person would have been my dissertation advisor. Well, that person wrote the DNB article on Haywood, and...words fail me. Then I read an article on Elizabeth Canning, since the Haywood article mentioned that the Canning case would bother Henry Fielding until the end of his life, and that was written by a nice, antique, British positivist who told me the facts and got out of the way, as opposed to the Haywood author, who told the life entirely out of order (by genre instead of time) and kept quoting secondary sources for evaluations of how wonderful and important and central Haywood is, how elaborately Haywood is investigating gender, how everything she wrote was a pure invention, how all her works are pioneering, etc. Blug. It may take me a long time to rewrite the Haywood article, as I have to construct an actual article out of the information I got (which was incomplete, disjointed, and impassioned). Geogre 15:12, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
 * If you didn't look, you missed it. Eliza Haywood has been rewritten (and Elizabeth Canning, but that one really didn't have many problems except a few dates, a little missing stuff, and some archaic presentation).  Geogre 17:00, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I blinked and it was gone. Hmmm. If not Centlivre, then surely Haywood was one of the lady playwrights in the misogynistic satirical play at the back of my mind (a roomy, empty, cobwebbed place). Especially since you called her one of the Fair Triumvirate, didn't you? Lemme check Chadwyck-Healey. Meanwhile, attempting pathetically to earn my salt, I've done you a redirect. Bishonen | 美少年 19:27, 20 February 2006 (UTC).
 * Nope, nothing there. How can this be so hard? Hey, your Eliza Haywood is excellent! Backscheider, hmmm. Aha. I've read a book by her. Well, partially read, you know. Bishonen | 美少年 19:35, 20 February 2006 (UTC).

Yeah, she did that big Defoe biography. I'm glad she wasn't my advisor. I haven't read the Defoe biography, as all reports were that it suffered from over-reading and over-study, but the DNB article was a little less wide eyed than the Critics but not much. She showed some awareness of the rest of the world of 18th c. literature and so mediates some of the "she is the first woman to write a marriage novel!!!!!" stuff the critics want to pass off, but she still repeats it, ringing the bell and telling us to ignore it. Geogre 23:20, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
 * With a title like this, A Wife to be Lett (1724) sure could be misogynistic. I found myself in difficulty in explaining Pope's attack.  He seems to be suggesting that she's a whore in person as well as in writing.  Given the way he treats the men, that's hardly a shocking attack (eating feces, urinating over one's head, diving in sewers? compared to that an allegation of whoring is a positive compliment), and I don't need to free him from charges of misogyny anyway -- he needs no defense at this late date when we eagerly forgive Nietzsche and Yeats.  Still, I didn't find enough from the DNB to explain the particulars of Pope's inclusion of Haywood.  Geogre 02:50, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Bish, I've been trying to follow up on my previous stuff, but there are a couple of WP pages that just don't work from my home machine. It's aggravating. These tend to be the long pages (reference desk), but not always (FAC): the pages get to a certain point and then just stop. Now, it could be a Mozilla issue. It could be a dirty code (someone's got an HTML code in their comment that effectively does a virtual divide by zero), but, whatever it is, it stops me. Oh, and then I get blocked again because of some twit on AOL. Blug. We'll see what happens when the DNB author finds the Wikipedia article, as she surely will. Geogre 13:23, 21 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Mozilla at work. Mozilla at home.  Your sig, FAC, and Reference Desk all display at work.  At home, flowers don't bloom, worlds don't bounce, and FAC is too long and polluted.  Geogre 20:49, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Colley Cibber

 * Hi, UDScott, thank you for creating a Wikiquote page for Colley Cibber. I was watching the article (I wrote most of it), and noticed you adding the wikiquote template. I appreciate it! Where did you get those cool quotes? Bishonen | 美少年 22:43, 20 February 2006 (UTC).


 * No problem. I actually got those quotes from Bartlet's Familiar Quotations. I've been working my way through, adding pages where necessary and adding quotes where pages already exist. I stay pretty active over on wikiquote, usually just popping in here to add the wq link where needed. ~ UDScott 14:00, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Another dunce
Jonathan Smedley: Surprisingly, John Butt didn't say anything in the Yale UP edition of Dunciad about him. It's surprising because he's actually a well deserved placement in the poem. The guy would be recognizable today, I suspect, as a red scare kind of guy. Geogre 16:38, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I also found out that Henry Carey was Edmund Kean's grandfather. Neat, eh? Geogre 16:45, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Special, limited time offer: If you have any singers/dancers/jugglers/composers you want researched, let me know.  My library has The New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians, and its coverage is nearly the same as the DNB, but with particular emphasis on the musical accomplishments.  It was a good help for Carey, for example.  Geogre 22:10, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Purcell! And Elizabeth Knepp! (My Lady Fidget to you.) Bishonen | ノート 22:28, 22 February 2006 (UTC).
 * Holy smokes! The Purcell article is a 1911 dump, boasting of a reference by Runcifal!  Ick!  (Major work to be done there...not sure I'm the man, but I'll try to help.)  Knepp should be interesting (and my lady fidgets, too, but only when I try to sit next to her).  Geogre 01:01, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Not sure there's more to say about Knepp than I already did, but it'd be great if you'd take a look. She was "the most excellent, mad-humoured thing", see The Country Wife. Bishonen | ノート 11:18, 23 February 2006 (UTC).

Take a look
Have a look at the timeline in Isambard Kingdom Brunel, what do you think about giving poor neglected old JV one, he hasn't had a spruce up for ages. Giano | talk 08:49, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm. I have to admit I looked long and hard for exactly that kind of thing when I did the timeline that's in JV now. It's kind of neat. You do it, dear. :-) (I don't much like the red colour, though. Blue? Pale purple?) Bishonen | ノート 11:15, 23 February 2006 (UTC).


 * You can choose your own colours. There is a horizontal version in List of popes (graphical).  See EasyTimeline. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:20, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * No my dear, I wasn't suggesting that I do it - I'm far too busy and doing important things - I thought perhaps you might have the time - perhaps you ALoan mught like to have a go. BoG sound like he's quite techinical, I've always said he sounds very clever and talented.  Not Geogre I've seen the way he handles that gun.  Giano | talk 18:22, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * The buttering-me-up almost worked, then I went and looked at these timelines... Ugh! Text as bitmaps? Non-antialiased too? Horrible. Might as well build your own in Microsoft Paint, as use that. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 18:30, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I've had to nip-and-tuck here and there, but Template:John_Vanbrugh_timeline is not far off. For some reason, if comes out too wide and won't right-float, but it is almost there... -- ALoan (Talk) 19:24, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks great, thanks very much, ALoan! Will it left-float, then? I was thinking we might try it on the left of "Legacy" or something. Well, I know right-float is better, on account of the heading being on the left. (Giano, do specify a colour if you don't like my purple [cruel laugh]). Bishonen | ノート 21:58, 23 February 2006 (UTC).

If you guys need some Photoshopping, let me know. I assume, though, that y'all are trying to accomplish with all HTML commands something that looks like a picture but isn't. Geogre 22:39, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Gosh! that's really clever ALoan I knew all along you were the man to do it, and that BoG (you can tell he's never been anywhere near an English public school, choosing a name like that) would not  be clever enough to do it. Geogre shut up you are distracting ALoan, and yes I think the pale purple is OK, but perhaps a deep blue would be better.  It's looking good, I am glad I thought of this. Giano | talk 01:01, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

April Fool's Day Main Page
I've been thinking a good April Fool's Day joke this year would be to move the Main Page and replace it with a detailed, factual, well-researched article about Main Pages, conforming to every Wikipedia stylistic convention and cliché. This has the support of Jimbo Wales and Mark Pellegrini (User:Raul654?), the latter of whom suggested I write to you and told me about your work on European toilet paper holder. I have a few ideas for one at User:Seahen/Main Page, but I am wondering whether you and your friends could contribute? (I'd be particularly interested to see what people come up with under Criticisms, and what they do for Main Page (disambiguation). Thanks in advance. Seahen 12:05, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * (Evil chuckle.) Geogre 14:10, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah... thanks. Ignore Geogre, he's jealous. I'll think about it; don't feel a great wave of inspiration engulfing me so far, but maybe later. Best, Bishonen | ノート 14:14, 23 February 2006 (UTC).
 * Oh, I wasn't chuckling over that. I was chuckling because I can always be counted on to think up a "criticism of." Any chance I get to take a dig at my one-time colleagues, I will, regardless of the topic, so I added a "criticism of main pages."  Geogre 14:18, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Tee hee. :-) Pretty cool, Geogre. Am I gonna have to add the footnotes myself? Bishonen | ノート 14:26, 23 February 2006 (UTC).


 * I'm sorry I am far too busy with ALoan's obelisk, and a murdering boxer. Also I'm not sure editor's of my standing and respect in the Wikipedia Community who are so frequently and often on the real front page (twice this week alone - did I mention that already?) should be involved with tomfoolery of this kind.  Of course it won't matter if you are though Bishonen.Giano | talk 14:33, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Quite, quite, and a Mona Lisa smile right back at you, honey. Bishonen | ノート 14:44, 23 February 2006 (UTC).
 * I wrote all that before my brain woke up, this morning. I will think of how to invent some footnotes, but nothing to do with wp:cite or wp:ref or wp:note or whatever the hell it is that the fussbudgets demand.  I have to prep a lesson for tomorrow morning, though, for a Young Writer's Conference.  This is going to be interesting, as it means my first foray into downloading music.  Geogre 21:15, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * The Criticisms section looks plausible, but not too accessible. Don’t forget, though, that Wales, Pellegrini and I all say the article should be as factual as any other -- not something that would reside exclusively at WP:BJAODN or Uncyclopedia from April 2 on. In JW's own words:
 * First, last year we had a big long ongoing fight between people who wanted to have a hoax front page or hoax story on the front page and people who didn't. It was icky.
 * Second, I believe that simply doing a hoax front page is too lame for Wikipedians. We're too smart for that!  We need humor with layers of complexity.
 * Therefore, what I'm advocating for is a main page which is all 100% true in every respect, but filled with things which are so outlandish that people *assume* that it's a joke/hoax. We get 1,000 extra points if we manage to have a mainstream news source report that we had put up a fake home page for the day.  Now *that* would be cool.
 * Seahen 22:18, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, then never mind it all. I'm not particularly interested in the project. Satire is much more interesting than shuffling dullness about in new and fascinating ways. Also, if one suspects that what is in BJAODN or Uncyclopedia bears any relation to what I was doing, then I'm definitely not interested in it. (Back to real work.) Geogre 22:34, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I'd be surprised if you or JW get to herd these cats, Seahen. Bishonen | ノート 22:40, 23 February 2006 (UTC).


 * One note: where the words Main Page appear in the article, they should always be capitalized; otherwise, by convention, the article's title would have a lowercase p. Seahen 22:36, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

(It's just soooo inviting!) Geogre 22:37, 23 February 2006 (UTC) (And now it's Jimbo, Raul, and I. Something about this series....  Good luck on humor by tax collector and joking by committee.  I know I look forward to seeing the results.)  Geogre 10:30, 24 February 2006 (UTC)


 * On a similar theme, I have just revisited intentionally blank page... -- ALoan (Talk) 17:27, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Email J Marple (Mr!)

Thank you, Bish.
I'm glad that I checked the RfC page before logging out. I've just sent you an e-mail, BTW. - Lucky 6.9 07:44, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Wow, I'm glad you caught it, that was close. I typed slowly as always, and the promised WP:ANI post only appeared about 45 seconds ago. Bishonen | ノート 07:51, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Sigh
I tried. The font was going to be a drag no matter what, but, of course, I didn't know it would be this much of a drag. I'll try again later. Geogre 12:42, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks, sweetheart! If you embiggen it later, that's cool; if not, it's also cool, I'll just display that one a little larger for easy reading. Thank you! I do like getting Joseph comprehensible. He has his own article, you know. :-) Bishonen | ノート 12:59, 25 February 2006 (UTC).

He does! How strange that whoever wrote it didn't take the opportunity to engage in a little criticism. I always regard articles on characters as being justifiable only when they have such a strong standing in culture as being symbols outside of their works, and Joseph K is certainly one of those. I.e. it shouldn't be merged, but only because Joseph K, like Gregor Samsa, is a semi-frequent pop allusion, but it's an allusion because of his associations with victimization by the faceless machine of the law, the meaningless of the individual, the alienation of the late capitalist civilization, the dissociation of the self inherent in a society with an overly developed ethical (not moral) sense, etc. Anyhow, it's one of those things. Some people create articles because they heard of the name, some because the name is important for contemporary cultural literacy. Geogre 14:42, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I see now that I should have been/should get involved in this RFC fiasco. Speaking of fiascos, Laurence Eusden is ... is ... odd.  We have someone attempting to do the right things, I think, but not quite getting "NPOV."  The POV is cited, and it's right, but it's ... ungentlemanly, perhaps, and unscholarly certainly.  Geogre 17:11, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Keep on Sighing
Hermeticism is a think I linked to after someone correctly brought up Pope's Preface to Rape of the Lock and Pope saying that he got the sylphs from French Rosicrucianism. One of my dicta, and I really need to put it on my user page, in a section called "The Sayings of the Wise Geogre," is Wikipedia is not a venue for negotiating the ultimate truth of reality or metaphysics." I.e. "Don't come here to tell the world about the true religion or the true secret history of the Kennedy assassination."  Geogre 17:47, 26 February 2006 (UTC)


 * And then I noticed this brand new article about noney-non luftfarden, and half of it is in some foreign language! Perhaps we need to get an expert like Jmabel to translate it for us? :-)  Geogre 12:50, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Take a look at the cool piccie that's there now! See, this is my problem: the photos that were found in 1930 are half the story, and I'm in two minds whether it's ok to use them. Not that I care so much that the Andrée Museum in Gränna asserts copyright; museums always do. Nils Strindberg who took the pictures died in 1897, so in that sense it's cut-and-dried: public domain by virtue of age. BUT, the photos had to be treated, perhaps extensively, certainly with expertise, to come out at all, after the exposed film had been sitting in the snow for 30 years. Nice special problem, huh? I've got the name of the guy who treated them, and his nationally very well-known institution KTH, in there now. I'm very unsure of this. I would so much love to be able to do an article with a wealth of great pictorial material for once!


 * Furthermore, Tyrone Martinsson, that I also mention now, has recently made better versions of Strindberg's photos. Those are copyright, no doubt, but that's not a big deal, as long as I can use the 1930 versions. My lead piccie is one of those, in fact if I understand it right, it's been scanned from a 1930s magazine issue. Bishonen | ノート 13:55, 27 February 2006 (UTC).


 * That is a special bloody pickle. However, the question is whether print or photograph is at stake.  Is it process or image?  If the latter, you're well in the clear.  If the former, you're close at nearly 80 years.  Then again, is it "image" as in "artifact" or "image" as in "film record?"  I think it may well be artifact. :-(  However, if you wanted to make a case to a museum to GFDL 'em, it would be an easy case: "Let us have 'em, and you'll see your tourism from English speakers go way up."  Then again, museums are known for being short sighted and officious and rule-bound.  I don't know which way the cracker breaks on this one.  Geogre 14:04, 27 February 2006 (UTC)


 * What a beautiful and haunting photo that is! You might ask BD2412 for an opinion on the copyright status (he's a US IP attorney, and his opinions might not be official, but at least he doesn't get to say IANAL). &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 20:03, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Bunch, I will! If I understand it, the photos, 93 of them, currently exist in three versions: 1) the unretouched rolls of film, largely used by Jan Troell in the documentary Their Frozen Dream, getting mileage out of the "aesthetic quality of worn, damaged and dated objects" according to Martinsson, 2) the retouched paper prints produced in 1930, held by Grenna Museum which claims copyright in them, and 3) recent digital versions enhanced from the original negatives made by Martinsson, who claims, and of course holds, copyright in them. (Take a look here, if you will, at the amazing panorama obviously planned by Strindberg but never discovered until Martinsson studied the material!) Bishonen | ノート 22:03, 27 February 2006 (UTC).
 * Looks like good news from BD2412, I'm glad! Of course, whatever fine images you get out of this will pale in comparison to the poetic sublimity of my latest upload... ;-) &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 00:29, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Eww. The worst aspect is the human with the three hands. Bishonen | ノート 00:40, 28 February 2006 (UTC).
 * That chiton is hot! Geogre 02:59, 28 February 2006 (UTC) (2nd adolescence precedes second childhood)
 * Get your mind out of the gutter, Geogre, 'tis merely a mollusk. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 03:48, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

brainhell
Being new to Wikipedia, I asked the RFA people for info on how to request that Lucky 6.9 be de-adminned. Robert McClenon stepped up, and he filed the RfC. I didn't know what an RfC was, or how it works. I now learn from you that it may not be the proper process to request the Lucky 6.9 be de-adminned. If you know how to do that, please let me know. Brainhell 16:35, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments, Bishonen. What is the proper procedure to request that Lucky 6.9 be de-adminned, and not permitted to exercise admin powers in the future? Brainhell 01:27, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Locked talk page
"Since you immediately removed them again, including mine above, I have now protected the page. You can't edit it any more."

This is NOT true, it was 24.83.197.24 who removed that stuff and vandalized my talk page.

--EllenFoster 02:42, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Bah. What a load of codswallop. The IP blanked the page and replaced it with the words "White Power". Your next edit was according to your edit summary to "reverse racist vandalism". Except you didn't reverse it. You just blanked the "White Power", without reverting the IP's blanking of the warnings. Even without going into the question whether that IP was you (which seems overwhelmingly likely in view of the "conversation" you went on to have with it), you're responsible for the partial revert which endorsed the IP's so-convenient blanking. Blanking vandalism warnings is itself vandalism. Bishonen | ノート 03:16, 28 February 2006 (UTC).


 * I'm not a racist --EllenFoster 02:27, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Fat before fast
Have a nice Fat Tuesday, Bish! Please help yourself to a digital semla! u p p l a n d 04:42, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Mmmm delish, thank you! It looks perfect, I can even see the little cardamom spots in the bun. Is it from Ofvandahls? (Oh, no, redlink! :- Bishonen | ノート 08:57, 28 February 2006 (UTC).


 * I suppose there may be enough to say about Ofvandahls to warrant an article, if one finds some of the literary references. I know Ulf Peder Olrog wrote about it, but there must be others. Erik Ofvandahl (1848-1949) himself is also a figure of interest - I don't think any other person in Swedish literary history is as famous as he is for writing bad poetry (what is pekoralpoet in English?). The biographer in SBL explains the character of his poetry as deriving from "the lack of style that comes from a total lack of poetic talent and literary judgment" (etc.) u p p l a n d 11:26, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

(Poetaster?) ("Ofvandahl" sounds like a lost work by Augustine:  De Vandalis, or "Of the Vandals.")  Geogre 13:31, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Talking about Swedish dish
A contributor recently added the cleanup tag to Swedish cuisine (I removed it btw). Me, being the main contributor, would like to see it that it suits the taste of the critics, and would be very grateful if you could check for bad grammar and wording and anything else that is crappy. If you want to and have the time, of course...

Fred-Chess 07:26, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

PS: thanks for voting for me as admin. I haven't thanked anyone before now, because I think it will mostly just bring me more work and wouldn't have mind of I had failed :-)
 * You're welcome. :-) Swedish cuisine looks fine, what a nerve taggiing it for cleanup. I've started a small copyedit, I'll be back later to finish the job. Based on fish and turnips, is it? Lol. That'll do wonders for the gourmet tourist trade. Bishonen | ノート 10:17, 28 February 2006 (UTC).

(Need I remind you that Henry Carey (writer) got tagged with clean up? Graffiti "artists" call what they do "tagging."  When they spray paint their "mark" on things, they've "tagged" it.  Somehow, that seems apt.  Geogre 11:03, 28 February 2006 (UTC)


 * This section provides an excellent opportunity for me to solicit input on the proposed merger tag which is currently defacing snaps. Scandinavians, speak now. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:04, 28 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks Bishonen and Geogre. Yea, I think that adding a cleanup tag to a decent article (with some flaws) is an insult. But it did need som fixing and it looks better now.
 * Re: Snaps, I've been meaning to write an article about the Swedish drinking culture and history for a while now. Lets see if I get it done...
 * Fred-Chess 10:10, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Boxing clever
It's OK I have to go and do some proper work now, someone just came in unannounced and I had to slide a boxing book surreptitiously off my lap and into the paper basket underneath the desk, and from the look I could tell they thought I was doing something else in my lap! BoG didnt like one of the refs going to a message board, so at vast expense I have just bought Gilbert Odd's Encyclopedia of Boxing (Yes! - BoG I may well send you the bill, especially if the fact I want is not in the bloody book) Which means there will be a lot more boxing bios to come, in order to get my money's worth - the things I do for this project winge winge - I could have bought it the money I have spent on books - no wonder I'm so poor. So please edit, I am off to sudy defects in 1930s concrete, and laws on maintenance and inspecting it - real interesting stuff. Giano | talk 11:16, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
 * It's all right, I'm really prepping for a class, I only wanted to do a couple of examples of references to show how short and simple the footnotes can then be kept. Look at the first three notes now. In fact they're so simple that many of them can with advantage be replaced by a mention in the text. I did that for one of the first four notes, removed the note itself and just mentioned Anderson. Assuming you don't actually like to have the thing peppered with 37 footnotes or however many there were, this can help you cut them by maybe half, if you like. Never mind, let ALoan or BoG do it... (Who said that? Did I say that out loud?) Bishonen | ノート 13:25, 28 February 2006 (UTC).
 * You are obviously nor aware it is now a requirement of FAC to have at least 86.3 citating footnotes per 500 words, and each fact verified in triplicate. Kindly replace my footnotes in full Giano | talk 14:29, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
 * "I didn't see a reference to support the fact that Antarctica means opposite of the arctic. Can you put in a footnote for this?" -- Our Favorite Martian

Föreign Squiggly Letter Pölar Éxpedition
Ta da! u p p l a n d 12:35, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Thånks Tüpshärrü, very nice! Very adequate article, now I only have to do a stub for Strindberg, (hïnt hïnt säj no more). But you have to admit it's ridiculous. Frænkel's supposed to be Swedish, from Karlstad, what's he doing spelling himself like thæt? Bischånen | tåk 13:12, 28 February 2006 (UTC).
 * What's that you say - there's a dot mine under the polar ice cap? With deposits of those little circles that go over the a's? That explains everything! :-) FreplySpang (talk) 15:02, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
 * What you say! Bishonen | ノート 15:25, 28 February 2006 (UTC).

Wi nøt trei a høliday in Sweden this yer? android 79  15:39, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Mynd yu møøse bites can be veri seriøus. (Bischånen, I solved a serious 18th c. mystery with Patriot Whigs; I kept hitting the miserable mystery of Tories writing hyper-patriotic stuff in the 1730's, when they hadn't, before.  What's more, they were doing it in a way that was clearly supposed to mean something to audiences in the press and theatre.  Somehow, and this is infuriating, I had missed out on the whole Patriot Whig stuff and The Craftsman.  It's gap knowledge from a literary point of view -- stuff that occurs after the cool literature and before the next cool literature -- but old-style political historians knew all about it.)  Geogre 15:46, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Damn you, Geogre, interrupting a perfectly good Monty Python recitation with your talk of "writing". Large møøse on the left half side of the screen in the third scene from the end 15:51, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
 * But it wæs in pärentheses! Ralph the Wonder Llama

They didn't dig a hole to bury Strindberg. The SBL bio says that the Norwegians in August 1930 found "Andrées stora dagbok samt hans och Strindbergs lik, det senare begravt av hans kamrater i en bergskreva." Most of the SBL article is about the expedition rather than Frænkel himself; he hadn't done much else in his life. Actually, it mentions that he painted ("Han var även landskapsmålare."), but gives no details. You can probably correct the bio once you are finished with the main article. u p p l a n d 12:17, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, or even when I'm actually started with the main article — I'm finally off to KB to look at some books, right now, at this moment! The internet resources on this are pretty amateurish, with the exception of the Martinsson article, so I'm tearing out my hair with frustration at having nothing else. Bishonen | ノート 12:36, 2 March 2006 (UTC).


 * You can check the online Times Digital Archive for some contemporary press reports (and occasional speculations in the following years, and new reports when they were eventually found). u p p l a n d 12:49, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
 * But is that better than this? Bishonen | ノート 13:02, 2 March 2006 (UTC).


 * Maybe not, I can't really tell. u p p l a n d 13:07, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Out-of-control chat room report
Hey Bishonen,

Did you See the thing in the Signpost? Your talk page is the sixth most edited talk page on enwiki. (I gather the count doesn't include edits by the page owner.) I'm sure you're thrilled, thrilled, thrilled! I'm 81st. I need to start giving away door prizes. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:14, 1 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I was sorely tempted to change the story to refer to the top 6 rather than the top 5 but I ʀêʂīστëð :) -- ALoan (Talk) 03:34, 1 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I nōte thæt Bǐšöňën's page is the önly one edited by friends rather than complaïners. Geogre 10:57, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you
For the vandalism revert. I was once told that you would be a good person to ask for an opinion on article quality. The article Glacier retreat needs a fresh set of eyes to look it over. It is stalled in WP:FAC and it would be nice if someone like yourself might have a lookie at it. I am not asking you to vote (unless it is to object) as I do not like solicitation of votes on anything. In fact, even if you do support, I would ask you to not do so by voting...I am probably going to withdraw it by the weekend and maybe renominate it later on. Just thought if you have a few minutes and want to help, your opinion would be nice. Thanks again!--MONGO 11:44, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I am but a layman myself and a majority of the technical data is way over my head...all I can do parrot what I read in books and journals...but hey, truly appreciate the effort...it's altogether a rather scary story if nothing else.--MONGO 21:36, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you!
Thanks so much for blanking and protecting my page. I will be forever indebted to you. I love you! Thank you!!!

--EllenFoster 01:05, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! That was quite tricky, though, with you editing it every few seconds. I'm glad it got done at last. Bishonen | ノート 01:08, 3 March 2006 (UTC).

DYK
Did you know.... Geogre 03:13, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * that William Congreve is a disambiguation page, that there are three of them?
 * that user:Geogre has set up a new section of his user page devoted to "The Sayings of Geogre the Wise?"
 * that Wikipedia's millionth article was a railway stop in India and that it was written long before the million mark and just got recreated or wikified or something in time for a million?
 * that user:Geogre rarely looks at the talk pages to FAC, FARC, AfD, CSD, or the various administrator boards and that this makes him happier and more popular than would otherwise be the case? :-)
 * Lol. I did know the first two. (Did you know that Congreve is also a disambiguation page, one I've tried to get rid of, and that one of them is a horse?) I will remember to draw User:Geogre's attention to any item on those discussion pages that needs a geogre in full flight. I trust he takes requests? Popup-assisted Bishonen | ノート 08:00, 3 March 2006 (UTC).

Geogre 10:53, 3 March 2006 (UTC) (a horse? of course, of course)
 * that user:Geogre does appreciate any time his attention is brought to a crucial debate that his sloth would otherwise miss?
 * that it is easier to de-list an FA than to have an actionable objection to an FAC?

Re: EllenFoster
Um, since you've apparently interacted with EllenFoster previously, I thought I should draw your attention to and. --Saforrest 03:48, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Mmm, sure, thanks. Well, EllenFoster is a sock, as well as being in a bit of a state. Did you see this one (the timestamps)? There's not a lot of point, but I'll block for a week or so for hate speech and PAs. Bishonen | ノート 07:50, 3 March 2006 (UTC).

FARCs
Having never nominated FARCs before (always too busy writig them) can you have a look as I've got into a mess with Sicilian Baroque moved the old nom to an archive, followed instructions implicitly, but it still won't show up as an FARC linking to the new nomination page. Do you know how to do it? Giano | talk 10:18, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Giano, those articles are going to fail to get de-listed, you know? Better luck de-listing others. Geogre 10:55, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * The nom looks all right now, anyway. Did the FARC talkpage accidentally get involved? Never mind, it looks fine. (In its stupid way.) Bishonen | ノート 11:25, 3 March 2006 (UTC).
 * Geogre, why don't you sleep any, all of a sudden? Bishonen | ノート 11:29, 3 March 2006 (UTC).
 * Last night was a buzzy brain night. I blame it on mood altering drugs.  Geogre 14:11, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Because the exitement is all too much for him! ..and don't you be too sure about the de-listing Geogre - just immagine I can take them all off my watchlist - not having to worry every tiny edit is someone adding their Granny's experience outside the Palace on VE night with a drunken sailor - never having to worry about explaining why Matthew Brettingham seems to only have had one child - was his wife frigid or did he have an accident on his bycycle - Miss Madeline is pronbably researching his poor sex life as we speak - and I don't have to worry any more about her findings. Tony can translate them all into "compelling prose" what is complelling prose? - I've often wondered - and what is it supposed to compell one to do? - vommit probably. Have a nice day all! Giano | talk 11:50, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'm going to say this, and hopefully I can say it only once. I'm conflict averse, so I don't intend to put it on any FAC's.
 * Begin utterance: The changes that Tony1 wants, in general, would make our articles far less compelling. In general, he asks articles to conform to a style sheet used in business in the US.  These changes reduce sentence variation, alter the rhythm of the sentences, and reduce complexity.  The goal of business writing is to achieve a fifth grade reading level, and the style sheet he is using is pernicious in that it would have all vocabulary, verb variation, and periodic structures squashed down to a predictable, and therefore boring level.  Furthermore, his repeated calls for a "copy editor" are references to a particular economic position created by the capitalist classes to contain their superfluous intellectuals.  The intellectual is a danger.  Too many of them are very dangerous.  Capitalism creates jobs that feign exchanging bread for intelligence in order to contain, to channel, and to control intellectualism.  "Copy editors" who embrace their calling as a noble pursuit are fully integrated into the capitalist scheme, wholly owned, colonized, and impregnated by the values of merchandize and commodity.  Were they thoughtful, they'd realize that their "intellectual" activity is mainly to reduce human variation.  No single style sheet can be applied to a large document.  This should be self-evident.  The narrower and more prescriptive the style sheet, the less of a document it can comprehend satisfactorily, and the style sheets Tony1 wishes to apply are narrow even by the standards of the primmest school marm.  It is not the man that I condemn, but the practice.  All of this said, there is yet a final comment, however, on the practice that I have to make:  SOFIXIT.  It is easier to make stylistic changes than to ennumerate them in an objection, and the motivation one must have in expending all that energy on an objection cannot be salutory.  End utterance.
 * Sorry, Bishonen, for putting this here, but having seen Tony1's objections to Noah's Ark on FAC, I reached a tipping point. The sanctimony involved just makes it worse.  Geogre 14:09, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * ? A double message indeed, to bother to formulate a Geogre Full Flight and then hide it on my talkpage. (Even if it is the sixth most edited usertalk page on Wikipedia.) I can't say I understand you. Bishonen | ノート 14:36, 3 March 2006 (UTC).
 * Well, sorry about that. Giano was complaining about the death by a thousand cuts being administered by some people with small knives (and no point), I think, and he mentioned the Tony1 editing standards.  I don't know anything about the Mistress Magdaline of the Crumpets or whoever that is, but I tried to read FAC to get over doing a New Pages patrol, and obviously high quality articles were getting "object" from Tony1 over the most boring and counter-productive things that it was ticking me off.  In fact, all of his "objections" seemed to be not on stylistic grounds but on style sheet grounds, and yet they were there as "not compelling prose."  I just thought the paradox of claiming to want prose to compel when your changes reduce interest was too aggravating not to say something about.  Not wanting another fifty interchanges that go nowhere and provoke petulance, I put it here, among friends.  Geogre 14:59, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

WTGROMT. Good thing I only ever engage in "light" copyediting... -- ALoan (Talk) 14:49, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Editing good. Style sheet constipation bad.  Geogre 14:59, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Looking for Advice
The following images: Image:Frozengodzilla.jpg, Image:Xillians.jpg, Image:Stallone.jpg, Image:Barthez.jpg, Image:PrestonLG.jpg, Image:Christian bale.jpg, Image:KimDaejung.jpg, Image:Godzilla running.jpg, Image:Mothravsgigan.jpg, and Image:Hford33.jpg have no source info. I have tagged them by the uploader, See Hoy Kim, keeps reverting it to the version without the tags and I think he even placed false locks on the page to make it look like they can't be edited without permission. Any suggestions? AriGold 16:09, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I've also had trouble with See Hoy Kim's image uploads. I'll take a look. android  79  16:11, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks. AriGold 16:16, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Have a buck back Bish
Having taken the buck, been over to look at Glacier retreat and commented on its FAC I thought I might see if you might be interested in a nomination I've been commenting on in which to my great surprise no-one at all has agreed with my comments. Can you tell me whether or not I'm just being a curmudgeon on Featured article candidates/Chetwynd, British Columbia, if you have time? Takk! Worldtraveller 00:42, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
 * ZOMFG! Arghhh, good grief! I definitely will comment on WP:FAC, but I'm so slow — let me just call in the cabalry in the meantime! Geogre, help, mayday! It's curmudgeon time! Bishonen | ノート 11:53, 4 March 2006 (UTC).
 * Ok, just let me put my poo-colored glasses on (to counter the rose-colored glasses nationals would wear) and see what I can see. Geogre 13:30, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Cool. I actually got in there first, for once, but you're better at it. You know how it is: I wrote a long screed because I didn't have time to write briefly. ;-) I was quite shocked by some things, and especially by the way WT's helpful comments were going for naught. Bishonen | ノート 13:39, 4 March 2006 (UTC).
 * Well, before anyone is disappointed, I saw one thing over and over again, and it needed to be said. Unlike the two of you, I didn't think the writing was that bad (no doubt all the voters have been editing out the stinkers), but it's ridiculous to have a verbose encyclopedia article.  The length of the article should be related to the needs of the subject.  I felt that like overrode anything else.  (Perhaps this is part of some campaign I'm on about people who try to write five screen FA's on TV show contestants who got "voted off the island" on episode 2.)  Geogre 13:54, 4 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok, I see what is going on. I was annoyed that the nomination has gone on this long, I do not consider the FAC process to be fun. I was also annoyed to find oppose votes only hours after returning my library book (inter-library loans - to Chetwynd - take weeks to come through). Worldtraveller, most of your comments have not been actioned upon, not because they are invalid, but because they would require dramatic changes to the way the article is written and formatted. The version you would like to see is not the version that I nominated at FAC and not the version that others had already voted upon. Should this FAC fail, I will make those dramatic changes and re-nominate the new version (I do want to get it right). However, I do not agree with the opinion that there is too much detail. A town is a town, no matter if it has 1000 or 4,000,000 people. It does not suddenly mean they do not vote in elections or they do not have a infrastructure, culture or history. Please see WikiProject Cities for what sections should be there - you may find that I have been conservative with what I have included and how I formatted the sections. Should this nomination fail based on the length, I will switch to a summary style with links to sub-pages. This will of course create additional content on the insignificant town but this is how Wikipedia has decided to deal with articles that are considered too long. The moderate length (36 kb) of the article was a compromise, do not create sub-pages in exchange for a longer centralized article. Too many footnotes?? Have I been too transparent with the sources I have used? Try fact checking an article (seriously - try any one in the FAC line-up, except Glacier retreat which I have already done), perhaps you will gain a new perspective of footnoting. And thank you for pointing out I have a bad writing style. Others have helped out with some copy-edits, I hope you will, too. --maclean 25  05:59, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
 * You see "what's going on"? Excuse me? What is going on, according to you? I'm sorry I "annoyed" you with my oppose vote, another time I'll check the chrystal ball first to see how your library business stands. My advice above probably annoyed you some more, please feel free to remove it from your page, and thank you for assuming I have nefarious motives for spending time on your article. I have no idea what those motives are — watching you squirm? I'm supposed to hate you? I'm in some sort of alliance with Worldtraveller? What? Never mind, I won't bother you again, I can think of plenty of better ways of spending my wikitime than coping with this kind of suspiciousness. And, seriously, has it occurred to you that people who were doing some sort of plotting or coordinating of efforts (oh, wait, perhaps because they're anti-Canadian?) would doubtless use e-mail for it? Bishonen | ノート 07:06, 5 March 2006 (UTC).
 * Stop...you're embarrassing me. Where did I day I was annoyed at you? You seem to be flustered and reading accusations into things. I said I was annoyed at my rotten luck at taking back the only published book about the history of the Chetwynd too soon. I do hope you actually read past the first three sentences (without the assumptions of hatred in your mind). --maclean 25 08:47, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I make no assumptions about you, why would I? I don't know you. I wrote on your page in (friendly) response to your question about notes and references and your reply is to inform me you were "annoyed" to find oppose votes at a late stage, that you "see what is going on"(?), and that as far as footnotes are concerned it's WT, Geogre and I who need to "gain a new perspective of footnoting" (or whoever you're talking to at that point; you did, rather strangely, put the whole thing as a reply to me, on my page). I understand that your FAC process has been frustrating, but biting me for coming late to it and for trying to help seems excessive. Bishonen | ノート 11:12, 5 March 2006 (UTC).
 * Oh damn - apologies to all for inadvertently triggering a dispute. Maclean25, you do seem to be hinting darkly at a conspiracy when you say you see 'what is going on'.  I didn't ask or even expect Bishonen or Geogre to agree with any of my comments, actually, and whether they had or not their commenting on the FAC was never going to be anything less than thorough, considered and helpful.  We are all interesting in improving the quality of the article, after all.  Probably best to discuss the length on the article's talk page or the FAC but I would just briefly say that first of all, is Chetwynd really a city?  Are all those headings really necessary for even the tiniest municipality?  Second, sure, it has history, culture, etc, but far far less significant, notable and worth describing than that of Sydney, Vancouver, or even Victoria. I think splitting off subarticles would be a bad idea as I would expect the number of people interested in reading or maintaining them would be very very small. Worldtraveller 12:23, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
 * For my part, it's worth noting that I introduced something entirely separate, and mine should be the most controversial objection. I have taken the same stance elsewhere and will continue to take the view that there are some subjects that, when stretched to get to an FA, are inappropriate.  Appomatox, Virginia, Waterloo, Belgium, and Memphis, Egypt may be large or small towns now, but they have hugely important contexts surrounding them.  On the other hand, Cairo, New York is a medium-sized town that doesn't have much in the past or present.  Therefore, talking about a small, small town, one has to either amplify minor aspects or introduce irrelevant aspects.  When that town is only 50 years old, there is nothing to do but spend a paragraph on such things as whether ten more people voted this way than that way (out of a population of 2,000) in a given election.  Nothing in that article relates the particular to the general, nothing in this article places the article in the context of Canada, history, economics, or the world, and it's not shown to be illustrative in any given way.  What there is, then, is a massive discussion of ... of... tourism.  You really ought not to feel picked on, as I recently drew controvery over my stance on that Mariah Carey song and the Stargate SG-1 species.  We have to obey the dicta of encyclopedias.  If there is a conspiracy behind my comments, at least, they're a conspiracy of one.  Geogre 13:25, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

peace?
Hi Bishonen Giano suggested that I make peace with you. I almost always find that making peace is beneficial to all, so I have no problem doing that. As I've admitted on the FARC, I goofed, and yes, you did have a point.

I wonder whether you and I can forget about the harsh words that have gone between us on a few occasions recently. I'd be pleased if you accepted my apology.

Tony 13:37, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Sounds fine; I don't usually look at who nominates FACs, so I'll have to be sure to check. If I do anything that upsets you, please raise it on my page. Tony 15:11, 4 March 2006 (UTC)


 * This is probably highly distasteful of me, but I'm inexorably reminded, Bishonen, that what I said to you about the FARC earlier was a product of ignorance. Read James J. Brittain's The FARC-EP in Colombia: A Revolutionary Exception in an Age of Imperialist Expansion. El_C 13:49, 4 March 2006 (UTC)