User talk:Elaragirl/Archive 2

"Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice" - Think before you type, please.

Archival
Had to archive my talk page, getting too long.-- Shrieking Harpy   TalkundefinedCount 17:50, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Nice signature
Hi Elaragirl, nice sig! Hope you're OK.... I am!! --SunStar Net 20:13, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Can you take part in my editor review at Editor review/SunStar Net for me?? - thanks! --SunStar Net 20:17, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Your signature
Rest assured, it has nothing to do with hard feeling about the MFD. As I've said, I'm behind you 100% on that. I just wanted to leave you the notice, never good to break rules, is it? And, one more thing, about the archival of your talk page; you're welcome to do so whenever you want, however it's considered good etiquette not to do so when there is a discussion going on (such as ours).  Dooms Day  349  20:16, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Really, any discussion. Yeah, that doesn't include vandalism, adverts, or stuff you don't want to respond to.  Incidentally, the notice at the top of your talk page is absolutely hilarious.  Did you come up with that yourself?  Dooms  Day  349  20:21, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Editor review
Thanks, Elaragirl.... that was extremely helpful, and very constructive. If you wish to discuss it in more depth, please feel free to leave a message on my talkpage! --SunStar Net 23:03, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Chinese
U speak chinese? I do. AstroBoy 00:47, 9 November 2006 (UTC) But I can't write chinese.

Admin nomination:
Thanks for your comments on my talk page. Of course I'd accept a nomination. A deletionist nominating an inclutionist, what scandal! Of course, I doubt I'd pass. But I'd give it a go anyway. I don't wanna jump the bullet though, as you never said you were going to nominate me lol. So, I want to know however, why are you a deletionist? Since I'm not one, I'd quite like to get a deletionist's perspective on deletionists. Thanks for your time! Bye, Spawn Man 07:41, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree totally with your view. I too am infuriated by rubbish on the mainspace. I do get someone else to deal with it usually though, but yes it does irritate me. But think of inclusionists such as this: hoarders. You know the people, the one's who carry around the same stuff every time they move & say it's indespensible. Well, I'm like that, I see a kinda bad article, but I can't bear to let it go. Instead, I try to work on it & improve it. In a way, both inclusionists & deletionists want what's best for Wikipedia. Thanks for the discussion. I enjoyed it. [[image:SFriendly.gif|25px]] -- Spawn Man 07:53, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Your nomination is Requests_for_adminship/Spawn_Man


 * OMG OMG OMG!!! Thank you sooo much!!! Even if I crash & burn miserably, I now know that someone thoguht it fit to nominate me! :) Thanks so much! Spawn Man 09:26, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/St Joseph's Catholic Infant School
You said to delete per the nom, per me and per Kappa. However, Kappa was arguing for keeping so I'm curious as to what you meant by that. JoshuaZ 16:10, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd be careful in that borders on a personal attack. While I agree that his extreme inclusionism can be frustrating sometimes Kappa does argue for keeping on other stuff which should be kept. (To use an analogy, just because there is a serial killer who kills lots of people doesn't mean if he kills somone that that kill was necessarily immoral.) He could have been protecting people from another maniac or something similar. JoshuaZ 16:20, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, but that doesn't merit in of itself an automatic oppose just because Kappa wants to keep something. (I agree that his behavior has been quite poor, and if something like the votestacking occurs again, I intend to file an RfC but in the meantime...)JoshuaZ 16:28, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh and on a completely different topic- current guidelines frown on the presence of images in signatures. JoshuaZ 19:38, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

The Cabal
I did not invoke their name. I have my own opinions and I share them when appropriate, but I have no desire to get actively involved in anymore Wiki politics. If you have read my opinion on my user page, you should know I have zero confidence in any Wiki policy or procedures. Alyeska

Your signature
Hi. Could you please review WP:SIG and remove the image from your signature? Regards, &mdash; Nearly Headless Nick  {L} 08:39, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

My RfA:
Thank you so very much for nominating me in my RfA. It was a wonderful oppurtunity, one of which I obviously missed the bus completely. However, I have withdrawn due to reasons that a stressed user would withdraw under. I'm sorry I have failed you & your expectations. Thanks, Spawn Man 09:06, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Spawn Man's RfA
I saw your note on Spawn Man's talk page. Just to let you know, popularity had nothing to do with it. I'd never encountered Spawn Man before the RfA, which is why I 'dug up' information about him—not for the purpose of finding reasons to oppose, but in order to determine his suitability for admin. It has nothing to do with him doing things differently and everything to do with my trust in his maturity, judgement and civility. I'm sorry if my motivation wasn't clear from my comments on his RfA. —Doug Bell talk•contrib 18:02, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Survey Q
Have you ever been to the southern hemisphere, click here to reply.AstroBoy 01:46, 11 November 2006 (UTC) Deadline for entries is December 15th

Question
Hello! I was wondering what you were referring to here; I don't see that this user has made any poor edits recently, but I may be missing something. Thanks, Dar-Ap e 03:32, 11 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Would you mind taking a second look? To me, this seems like a good edit. The text seems like nonsense and has nothing to do with the article. It was added by 69.29.249.234, who has added identical text to other articles. Additionally, the

Civility
Hi Elaragirl,

Thanks for your many contributions to Wikipedia. However, comments like this are incivil (as you already know, and apparently "don't care") and may violate Wikipedia's policy on no personal attacks. Comments like "Could you kindly direct me to your drug pusher?", "don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out", "I have serious worries about your mental stability" are not constructive, and have no place on Wikipedia. You have raised some valid points on this MFD. But your latest comments violate official policy, as you've already as much as admitted before you even hit "save page". Please don't do it again. Best wishes, Firsfron of Ronchester  17:07, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Someone who says you are in violation of WP:CIVIL is not "twisting" the policy; the above quotes are clear examples of incivility, which you knew at the time you posted them. You haven't been editing Wikipedia for very long (just the two months), and so I'm willing to assume good faith that you just hadn't read the policy very closely. you have stated that you "don't care if someone has decided that [you're] being incivil," but that attitude can result in a block. Please, please, please reconsider that opinion.
 * You have indicated on my talk page that you wonder if I "have done likewise to any of the participants in the MfD for Esperanza that have also made incivil commments," but in fact no one else has made comments like "don't let the door hit you on the ass", or I would certainly have commented on his/her talk page. In fact, I have supported blocks for editors I work with regularly, if they can't abide by the rules.
 * I will ask again that you abide by Wikipedia's policies. Comments like the above are certainly incivil, and may eventually result in a block. You certainly should make your opinion known, and you have every right to speak your mind, as long as you can be civil in doing so. Best, Firsfron of Ronchester  17:39, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, to clarify, WP:BLOCK states: A user may be blocked when their conduct severely disrupts the project — their conduct is inconsistent with a civil, collegial atmosphere. It does not make the proviso that incivility is OK as long as it is directed at a group of users instead of a single individual. Thank you for refactoring your comments, but please remember that I am not acting on your comments because "they offend me so" but because they violate WP:CIVIL. Best wishes, Firsfron of Ronchester  18:08, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Even in this original version, I see nothing there that even merits a rap over the knuckles. Agreed, some of the sarcasm is probably a little misplaced, but at XFD the corners are usually fought pretty hard and dirty. Certainly there is nothing there that is any worse than the immature "Is-this-an-April-Fool-MFD" comments that have flooded that page. Moreschi 18:27, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I think it was borderline civility, but without crossing over. Certainly there was nothing there that merits even an allusion to a block.  As Moreschi points out, you'd need to apply the same metrics to some of the opposing statements.  I will say to Elaragirl that I think it was close enough to the edge that it reduced the impact of the very valid points you were making about the noise level in many of the "keep" votes.  While I really appreciate your wit and sarcasm in making your point, you don't want to go so far as to undermine it.  —Doug Bell talk•contrib 18:59, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * You're right. But then again, I've been called a shrieking harpy before (where I got the old sig from) and so I'm not suprised. What shocked me to the bone was Firsfron (FIRSFRON, the guy who seems so reasonable!!!) basically threatening me with a block and not even mentioning anything to anyone else involved in the entire discussion (Yep, i checked his contrib history). It bothers me, because I was a naive fool who was under the impression the only people you threatened with blocks were problem users. Silly me. -- Elaragirl  | | | | | | TalkundefinedCount 19:09, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Dear Elaragirl,
 * My comments were never (and I mean never!) meant to threaten you. Notice my first comment does not even allude to a block. If you took it that way, I apologize. However, I did want to stress that uses have been blocked for being incivil. That's why I said "please please please" reconsider your stance on that issue, since on my talk page, you indicated you thought it was perfectly OK to be incivil, as long as it was "only" directed at a group of people, instead of an individual.
 * Your edit summary on your userpage indicates I told you to "keep your fucking mouth shut", when in actuality, I said you should definitely speak your mind, but do so civilly. Please do not misconstrue what I said.
 * Finally, you seem surprised that some users have claimed you have a "vendetta" against Esperanza. While I do not claim you do, the comment you made on user:Moreschi's talk page, "I really hope the organization is utterly destroyed", would certainly lead users to conclude that on their own, right? Firsfron of Ronchester 19:23, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your note. Again, I apologise if it sounded like I was threatening you with a block. I wouldn't do that: it's an extreme violation of the block policy itself, which states an admin involved in an argument must never use his/her blocking powers in the dispute. I'm already aware of the chilling effect an admin's comments may have on another user; I just hadn't stopped to consider how my comments might be interpreted, and obviously were taken in this case. I never want to cause another good-faith editor wikistress. I'm sorry your day has been crappy. Best wishes, Firsfron of Ronchester  19:51, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Ludicrous semantics, quit word-twisting. Elaragirl's next comment was "and only then rebuilt -- from scratch -- with nothing more than the welcoming comittee and barnstar brigade, and with the same loose informal structuring as the CVU.". Hardly the words of somone who hates Esperanza's guts and wants to see the whole place razed with super-destroying fire!! Please. Also, you might like to check out the context: a weird, crazy page was up at MFD that was basically caused by a problematic Esperanza mindset. Moreschi 19:52, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Saying things as you see it should not lead to claims of incivility. Kim Bruning 14:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

regardless of your position about Esperanza
 Hi there... I just wanted to say that although I differ with you concerning Esperanza's place vis-à-vis Wikipedia, I respect that you have the right to disagree, and indeed, I will readily admit that Esperanza is flawed. Regardless of your position, I hope that Wikipedia as a whole comes out stronger than before this discussion, whether or not Esperanza is ultimately deleted. I also wanted to say how much I enjoyed your descriptions of variant photosensitive lifeforms, constantly recycled breathing material, and the all-important magic ball of fire. I hope the whole Esperanza MfD experience isn't stressing you out too much. Thank you, and have a nice day. -- Kyok o  17:33, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I know how you feel
After just about the same time here as you've been, I had a similar encounter that was extremely unsettling and caused me the only serious wikistress I've had here. (I'm not easily stressed out.) In a nutshell it was surrounding an RfA where I was very involved in making my case in favor of a candidate in an RfA that was right on the line ( 68% I think 73% with 70% 75% or more needed to be considered for promotion) between support and oppose. I was only one of several people involved in supporting the RfA, and there was no real opposition, just the pedantic editcountitis in effect. There was impassioned discussion, but nobody was out of line. Sort of out of the blue I got threatened with a block by User:Cecropia, who was a bureacrat at the time. (The whole affair ended up with two bureaucrats resigning, not so much due to anything wrongly done, but because of the stress involved.)

So I know how you feel when you're simply impassioned and you get slapped from above like a common troll or vandal. —Doug Bell talk•contrib 19:29, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

signature
I originally posted this on the MfD/EA discussion, but it was (probably rightly) removed, so I'll drop it here for you.

Might I suggest a couple of technical condensations to your sig? It seems to me that the following code will reproduce exactly what you have there with a few less tags: Removed but used!

Happy wiki'ing! :) - Che Nuevara  20:19, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like you make a lot of friends...ha
You put insulting comments about my article. If you have nothing better to do, or no job, then it's ok to still not insult people. Also, when you have to have "THIS PAGE EDITED TO REVERT VANDALISM" at the top of your page, that might be an indicator that you have no friends. Also, in your commenting about my article, you have clearly violated the "personal attacks" portion of Wiki's rules. Good day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Orokusaki (talk • contribs)


 * Yawn. Another satisfied customer, I see. I have responded at your talk page, sir. Please read WP:DICK ASAP. -- Elaragirl | | | | | | Talk 20:35, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

thank you
 Thank you for your support... Thank you ever so much, Elaragirl, for your kind words and understanding in my time of need. I deeply appreciate your support, and I hope to be there for you, should you ever need help.

— Kyok  o

Your ideas
Thank you for your ideas. There is discussion already underway at Esperanza. I will edit more tonight (in a few hours). --Fang Aili talk 21:46, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Re: Sarcasm
I think some people mistook my sarcastic Deletionist Party comment as something real. No two deletionists agree on anything, and the Association of Deletionists is a Meta BJAODN type of page. No incivility intended.-- Elaragirl | | | | | | Talk 21:54, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think you fixed the misunderstanding with the Sarcasm box. I don't think anyone thought you were being incivil there. I took a look at the suggestions you left on Fang aili's talk page, and it's a good list that deserves addressing. Best wishes, Firsfron of Ronchester  22:02, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Your old sig
Would you believe that I've thought for the past few hours that Elaragirl and Shrieking Harpy were different people? This has confused me before, and I have seen debates about how changing signatures like this can be confusing. Would you consider putting a "formerly XYZ" in your signature during a transition period (say, a week) to avoid future confusion? Ideally, I'd ask people to never change their sigs and stick with the same name in their signature, but I don't think that would really work, unfortunately, as quite a few people seem to like this sort of morphing. :-) Carcharoth 22:07, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Suggestion
How about if you work on an article for a change, as opposed to making your userpage look pretty or finding a way to make a rainbow out of pipe characters in your signature? You've gotten a lot of mileage out of complaining about how unproductive Esperanzans are, but your own edit count link shows that you've made more edits to user pages (probably your own user page) than to actual article space.

By the way, I was a member of Esperanza once, but I was forced to leave with the Highway 33 fiasco. And I still don't think there's any room for "hope" and "love" and feel-good shit around here. But as long as you're contributing to the "discussion" (such as it is), maybe you should think about how your own editing record reflects on what you have to say. --Elkman - (Elkspeak) 22:08, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the response
Hey Elaragirl, I know we don't agree, but thank you for the response you gave at the talk of the MfD discussion later on in the "Strawman" discussion. They were very reasonable, and I think many people, myself included, benefited from reading them. Thanks. -- Nataly a 23:06, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

XfD comments
While I disagreed strongly with you on the Esparanza MfD, I've seen some of your comments and edit summaries in other XfDs -- you've written some classics I've enjoyed: --A. B. 00:05, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * (→Fan death - - Delete before we all suffocate!)
 * (→The Zelda Age - Delete it now, before it infects other pages!): "Delete and Salt - You can't fairly even call this screed research. Original blatant nonsense, maybe. We need a policy page called WP:WTF?"
 * List of allusions to the word fuck: "Delete, salt to taste - only on Wikipedia could you have a list like this. Now, let's wait for the inevitable Inclusionist to suggest this is a valuable learning resource."

Hey
You drive me up the wall with your blatant deletionism sometimes, but it's always for our greater good. You always make me laugh at AfDs, and that's saying something, seeing as how noxious AfD usually is. And I admire you for sticking to your guns during the EA MfD. So, here's a howdy from an AWWDMBJAWGCAWAIFDSPBATDMTD member to the most stubborn, most entertaining deletionist I've ever run across. :) Keep on makin' me laugh, please, we seem to need it more and more around here these days. riana_dzasta 01:28, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Deleting XfD and DRV? I think my head just exploded... riana_dzasta 05:36, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, I agree. Deletionists are as necessary to the place as the inclusionists - unfortunately, sometimes, neither party seems to realise that. Too much of an 'us against them' mentality around here. It should be all for The Greater Good. Ah well, these things take time. What's going on now, is the Coffee Lounge up for MfD? I'll scoot over there now... riana_dzasta 14:32, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Holy crap, the Coffee Lounge isn't up yet? I thought it was only a matter of time :) riana_dzasta 14:35, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Good point - and thanks for proving that even deletionists have souls... Ugh. The thing is that Esperanza can do good things, but seems to do them at the expense of so many other things. There are too many EA members whose edits seem to be confined to the coffee lounge and the very occasional foray into RCP. I'm not an article-writer, but dammit, I don't want to waste my time here either. riana_dzasta 14:41, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

a sincere thanks
I noticed some of your comments about deletionism while pondering over WP:VP threads, and I've decided that your fiery defense of the practice is a perfect explanation of my feelings on the issue. As someone who also wikifies, I see plenty of the crud that never floats to the surface, and I'm frustrated when the AfD nominations turn into "keep, expand," votes by users who, while keen to emphasize the first half of their vote, have no intention of following up on the second. Finally, I feel like I'm not the only one.

If you don't mind, I'd like to quote a few of your jucier barbs on my userpage. It might even merit its own little section. Consequentially 03:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Bugatti Veyron Edits
Hey, thanks for the help! :) BTW cute user page! E. Sn0 = 31337 = Talk to me :D 05:05, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

what do you think of my own edits?
Hello, I'm very curious to think about my own record of edits, given your disapproval of how some Esperanzians spend most of their time away from the article mainspace. While I hope that I don't fall in that category, I still invite you to participate in my editor review. I'd also be curious to hear what you think of the idea of the editor review concept itself. Of course, as with anything on Wikipedia, there's no obligation. Thanks. -- Kyok o  07:12, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Coffee Lounge
Yes, I love you too. I'll hold fire for a few days over the Coffee Lounge - hopefully that can be deleted in-house at Esperanza without a painful MFD. I'm giving it precisely 48 hours, starting from this time stamp. Cheers, Moreschi 11:53, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Gee, I was willing to give them a whole week. Well, I guess you'll beat me to the punch on the MfD nom.  —Doug Bell talk•contrib 11:59, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Please don't misinterpret...
...the discussion I'm having with MONGO on my talk page. He's the one that asked me before—I don't want you to think I'm slighting your offer, which I very much appreciate. I'm still reluctant about this—I don't want to turn this into a job. —Doug Bell talk•contrib 12:06, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Right back at ya
Sorry to see you having such a tough time with the Esperanzans... certainly not a group I'd want to butt heads with (especially the ones wearing the purple horned helmets). -- SB_Johnny |talk|books 14:39, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Thankyou
Our philosophies disagree, but I would like to thank you for taking the time to stand up to the Esperanzan clan. They have done their very best to make both me and other people feel inadequate because I edit Wikipedia instead of chat. They have accused me, via that MfD, of being heartless, nerdy, and cold. Attempts to destroy them completely were thwarted, but I hope you have the patience to chip away at their programmmes, one at a time, until they finally give up. I am a foot soldier in your cause, call on me for anything you want. Thankyou. Dev920 (Please peer review here.) 15:42, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Wikistress
I do like that box you're using. It's classy. Of course, a more useful tool would be a webtool that logs past stress levels and even generates a graph on the fly, so you can follow the course of stress over hours, days, or weeks. Like a graph for stocks and shares. We could even arrange to have a group of market experts come in and make predictions about future stress levels, even though past results are no guarantee of future performance.

Of course, people might get stressed by the idea of having their stress graphs up on public display, so the results would be skewed. Shame. Anyways, hope to see that stress level come down to elevated in the near future. :-) Quack 688 16:32, 16 November 2006 (UTC)