User talk:Moonraker/Archive 13

Happy New Year, Moonraker!


Happy New Year! Moonraker, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.

Abishe (talk) 14:22, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

DYK for Frederick Thesiger (naval officer)
&mdash; Amakuru (talk) 12:02, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Francis Peter Beck amendment
Your article relating to Francis Peter Beck contains a reference in the notes to The Unseen Assassins, however we believe he is not included on page 94 of this book. Can you check and confirm and remove the reference if necessary? Many thanks. (31.52.254.8 (talk) 09:47, 17 January 2022 (UTC)) G Beck
 * Many thanks. I am sure I did find him there, but I guess I may have the page number wrong. Will try to check ASAP and then will correct it. Moonraker (talk) 21:06, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Paul Hayes (historian)
Thank you for creating Paul Hayes (historian) - I really appreciate it, I'm his son - I'll try and find a picture for the article.
 * My pleasure, . You will need to let the upload page create a Creative Commons license if you add it to Wikimedia. Please let me know here, as per WP:COI it is better for you not to edit the page. Moonraker (talk) 23:22, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Floating images
Hi, why have you done on a number of articles? There should be no need to do that, because those two declarations are among the effects of the thumb option, which selects the inbuilt CSS rule  -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 20:34, 13 February 2022 (UTC) Moonraker (talk) 06:01, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
 * , I don’t know what devices you read WP on, but the answer is that on the English Wikipedia only there has been a recent change of the way the standard bare “thumb” option displays itself — on many devices, including all of mine, the image window (but not necessarily the image itself) is now being forced to take up the whole page width. That makes all the text sit either above or below the image, so that marginal images no longer work. I have arranged images on the pages I have created in a way that didn’t plan on that and I am putting things back as they were. I don’t know if you are anxious to impose that change? Kind regards, Moonraker (talk) 03:09, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I am using a PC with Windows 10 and the latest version of Firefox. I am not aware of anybody else who has the problems that you describe, and have not observed anybody else making edits similar to the one that I linked at the start. If you are perceiving a problem with thumb images that did not previously exist, that is something to bring up at WP:VPT. There should be no need to make any of the changes that you are making - particularly since nobody else has reported a problem with the normal syntax or are making similar changes. If the behaviour of thumb really has changed, the thing to do is get it changed back - and the route to that is (initially) VPT via to (ultimately) . Consider: there are something like six million articles on Wikipedia, and the vast majority will display one or more images using thumb, and you would expect that somebody would have reported it at VPT by now (I've been watching that page for more than ten years, and I see no recent reports). But if a problem really does exist, it would surely be easier to amend the behaviour of thumb than to make millions of individual "fix" edits. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 22:28, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, if you are only using a PC,, then you won’t see it. But as I understand it, most accessing of Wikipedia is now on “mobile” devices such as iPhones and iPads, as with me. Here is what GKFX (a software engineer) told me about the “thumb” option a few months ago. As you will see, he was arguing against using Main page image, as I had been doing. "On the official mobile skin, the image transitions from full-width to floating at 720px device width. Maybe this is a bit too large of a value to have been chosen, but it’s a decision taken by the MediaWiki developers who presumably have their reasons for picking that value. With Main page image, the image comes out very small on mobile in my testing and causes very short lines of text to the left of it on narrow screens. Personally I use the desktop skin (Vector) on mobile which avoids this sort of thing."
 * I still don't see why changing lots of individual pages is better than fixing the problem at source, so I've raised a thread at WP:VPT. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 10:23, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
 * , please stop adding this extraneous formatting to articles. Adding sizes using px sizing is also discouraged, since editors have their own preferences for the size of thumbnail images. – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:00, 21 February 2022 (UTC)


 * , I agree with you that by far the best thing is to fix the problem at source, but so far I am not seeing much recognition that there is a problem., I do not agree that the formatting is extraneous; on the px sizing, the image templates at Wikipedia allow editors to choose an image size; by all means discourage people from using that, but if you want it stopped then the way to do it is surely to get the option removed at source. Moonraker (talk) 08:51, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
 * When nobody except you sees that there is a problem, the burden is heavier on you to demonstrate the problem. It is possible that the problem exists for more people, but you have to show others that it is real and that you can't fix it by adjusting your personal configuration. As for px, there are places where px sizing is useful, for example when making little icons like to go inline with text, but photos should almost never have prescribed px sizes; that's what the thumb size preference is for. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:42, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Nomination of Maud Angelica Behn for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Maud Angelica Behn, to which you have significantly contributed, is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or if it should be deleted.

The discussion will take place at Articles for deletion/Maud Angelica Behn until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.

To customise your preferences for automated AfD notifications for articles to which you've significantly contributed (or to opt-out entirely), please visit the configuration page. Delivered by SDZeroBot (talk) 01:01, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Always precious
Ten years ago, you were found precious. That's what you are, always. Thank you for consistent help with the finesse of languages, both German and English, and some impressions of places, flowers and music for you --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:24, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Nomination of Eton College controversies for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Eton College controversies, to which you have significantly contributed, is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or if it should be deleted.

The discussion will take place at Articles for deletion/Eton College controversies (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.

To customise your preferences for automated AfD notifications for articles to which you've significantly contributed (or to opt-out entirely), please visit the configuration page. Delivered by SDZeroBot (talk) 01:02, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Editor of the Week
User:Buster7 submitted the following nomination for Editor of the Week:
 * Moonraker has edited Wikipedia pages since June of 2009 and has spent almost 80% of that time in mainspace. In that time he has shared over 300 WP:DYK's which are often the "most visited" for the month. A love of everything British has led to dozens of biographies from the Ancient World to the 20th century. Frederick Thesiger (naval officer) is his 1000th created article and is a prime example of his excellent work. High School of Montreal, created in 2017, is a favorite and still watched over like a proud papa. Common refrains on his talk page include; "Thanks for the help", "you are a gentleman and a scholar", as well as, "thanks for the excellent advice and thoughtful suggestions". A hard working member of WikiProject Wiltshire, WikiProject Horse racing, WikiProject Latin and WikiProject Schools, Moonraker deserves both praise and thanks. Seconded by User:7&amp;6=thirteen

You can copy the following text to your user page to display a user box proclaiming your selection as Editor of the Week:

Thanks again for your efforts! &#8213; Buster7  &#9742;   13:37, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Goodness me. Many thanks, ! Moonraker (talk) 16:09, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Category:Doctors of Divinity has been nominated for deletion
Category:Doctors of Divinity has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. --Animalparty! (talk) 07:10, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Nomination of Principal council for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Principal council is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Principal council until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. FollowTheTortoise (talk) 18:42, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Aidan Bellenger
I would be grateful if I could draw your attention to one detail in the above article. It states: 'In 1968, aged 27, he was ordained a priest'. If that year was correct he would have been 17 or 18 which is, of course, unlikely. Could I suggest that the appropriate date is considerably later, probably after 1980. Clrfr-2 (talk) 02:34, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Many thanks for responding very generously to my contribution above. I have been examining both your edits and the page in its most recent form. There is one sentence in the latter that remains significantly problematic for me. It is in the section Early life. It states: He then underwent monastic training as a Benedictine monk at Downside Abbey (Somerset) for three years and at Ampleforth (North Yorkshire) for two more. I have visited the reference you provided for this but have not been able to find anything in that place to substantiate the statements. In addition I have viewed all the on-line resources that would appear to be available relating to this and, again, have not encountered anything that would provide confirmation of them. In particular: (1) it would appear that after he completed his BA degree at Cambridge University Bellenger remained there until being awarded a Phd. in 1978 and (2) there is nothing to suggest residence at Ampleforth Abbey except, perhaps, for the occasional visit. Could I draw your attention to this web-page which would appear to be reasonably athoritative? Thanking you:--Clrfr-2 (talk) 15:31, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, . The reason of course why you have not been able to find anything to substantiate the statements is simply that the link is not working, I guess someone has taken the Pdf down since I added the reference, which was when I created the page. I would not have made the information up. I might add that six years would be an awfully long time for someone to remain at Cambridge as a Ph.D. student, apparently without a job! On Prabook, see Valery Tsepkalo — and it doesn’t offer any citation here. Let me see if I can find any other sources, but I am not worried by what you say. Moonraker (talk) 17:03, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The site truthproject.org.uk is redirecting to iicsa.org.uk, so I’ll contact them to see if they can let us have a link that works. So far as I can make out, the document is probably the witness statement of Bellenger himself. Moonraker (talk) 17:34, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

You are being very courteous and academically precise. Both characteristics are, especially in a context such as this, much appreciated and persuade me to be fully respectful of your editorial contributions. With ref. to Bellenger's witness statement: I too attempted to view it but found that it was only available in very limited segments and those were not relevant. I will follow your enquiries with close interest.--Clrfr-2 (talk) 18:02, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * No trouble, . I have heard from IICSA that they will send an answer but it may take them fifteen days or more. Moonraker (talk) 22:16, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

It is my hope that this document could be of some assistance to you. Please note that it is not the statement provided to the IICSA by Dominic Aidan Bellenger. That is located here. It appears to me that if you intended to cite the first as a reference (which is what I understand to to be the case) you may not have been aware of who had written it (its first page is not provided). According to the IICSA it is the 'Statement of Dom Charles Fitzgerald-Lombard dated 20.10.2017'.--Clrfr-2 (talk) 00:48, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you, . Your first link goes to part of the statement of Father Charles Fitzgerald-Lombard, the second to part of that of Father Richard Yeo, the third is a list of documents, but none of them seems to mention Bellenger, perhaps as the first two are incomplete. Anyway, let’s hope IICSA can give us a link to the file I cited to begin with. Moonraker (talk) 01:02, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah, now I see what you have spotted,, Father Fitzgerald-Lombard says he studied for three years at Downside and two at Ampleforth and was ordained in 1967, so you think I may have taken some notes and confused the two. Yes, that’s possible. Fair enough, then for now we’ll take out what you are doubting. But if we can get the statement of Bellenger we may have something similar to put in there. Moonraker (talk) 01:22, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your remarkably prompt response to my most recent posting. I am sure I did not deserve it. You are, of course, quite right to point out the almost complete deficiency of the second external link I provided. I myself realised, within minutes, that it directed to a pdf document which, while not completely irrelevant, was incorrect. I apologise for that. The reason why I included the third, which you rightly if unflatteringly describe as 'a list of documents', was to show how I had attempted to verify the identity the author of the first pdf document. The reference number (in this case BNT006403), appears at the foot of each page on the right hand side. With ref. to the witness statement of Aidan Bellenger: this document indicates that it was, on some occasion, given the ref. number BNT006401_025. Knowing this could, possibly, be of value in progressing a search but I have not, as yet, been sucessful in that. Your substantial editorial contributions, and modifications, made to the article relating to Bellenger during the last few hours are much appreciated.--Clrfr-2 (talk) 04:55, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * No trouble, . Once I was convinced I could have gone wrong, I looked for new sources and found some. What I can do on the Bellenger statement is to update IICSA that what we need is “BNT006401_025“. Moonraker (talk) 13:07, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

DYK for William S. Messervy
&mdash; Amakuru (talk) 00:02, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

Te Urewera again
I posted a further comment to New Zealand Wikipedians' notice board two weeks ago. No-one has responded, but it occurs to me that you might not have seen it, so this is a heads-up, in case. Cheers. Nurg (talk) 09:51, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

New message from DisillusionedBitterAndKnackered
Just in case it is any use, but no offence taken if not! Cheers DBaK (talk) 23:11, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

SHORTDESC
Hi! I love your editing and am not planning on starting public fisticuffs with you. I was a bit surprised by this, because WP:SHORTDESC suggests 40 characters, which is why I had just done this, as I felt that not only was it well over the limit but that it was too much of an article summary, which SHORTDESC seems to think is not necessary. But YMMV. As I say, no fisticuffs. Cheers DBaK (talk) 10:57, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay, DBaK, I didn’t know about the forty character limit. Moonraker (talk) 16:55, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Fair enough and thanks! Best wishes DBaK (talk) 17:56, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Welbore Ellis Agar
&mdash; Amakuru (talk) 12:02, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Category:Ulster unionism has been nominated for renaming
Category:Ulster unionism has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Privybst (talk) 15:55, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

The Earl of Eglinton & Winton.
Thank You for updating my page. I wonder - If I send you a picture - could you add it?

Many Thanks

Hugh Eglinton 2A00:23C7:388D:8F01:14C7:AC51:5F7F:61CF (talk) 18:21, 6 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello, Lord E. Yes, that is no trouble, but Wikipedia can only use low quality images, on a rather dodgy basis, unless the copyright owner uploads them to Wikimedia Commons, which is by far the best way to do this. It is easy, may I suggest you go here and follow the instructions? You may need to create an account. If you can please tell me here the name you give the image, I’ll add it to the page. Verb. sap., thanks to the Conflict of interest policy, you should not edit your own page, but if I have got anything wrong there you may want to alert me here. Moonraker (talk) 20:37, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1700 racehorse births


A tag has been placed on Category:1700 racehorse births indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 01:15, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

C.E. Vulliamy
I am a little puzzled that you don't list CE Vulliamy's page among your creations. You are shown as having created his page in 2021. This I noticed while adding his book Rocking Horse Journey to his publication list. (I knew about the book because I met him a few times in the 1960s when he had "retired" but was still very much alive. Foiled circuitous wanderer (talk) 16:53, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the kind words, . The answer is it isn’t a good enough page for me to list it, unlike Blanche Georgiana Vulliamy, which was one of many spin-offs from Daisy Burrell. One thing kind of leads to another here. But Colwyn Edward Vulliamy was created soon after Right Book Club, as I thought all its authors needed a page. Another quite interesting one of those was Mairin Mitchell. Moonraker (talk) 20:58, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Links to YouTube
I've had to revert your recent addition of a link to YouTube to the Thorpe affair article per WP:COPYLINK, since the video appears not to have been uploaded to YouTube by the copyright holder. 02:24, 8 November 2022 (UTC) AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:24, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I see your point,, although I don’t think a mere link is a copyright infringement in itself. Anyway, it’s quite easy to find, if anyone goes looking. Moonraker (talk) 08:12, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Links to YouTube get deleted regularly for just that reason. Per WP:COPYLINK ...directing others to a site that violates copyright has been considered a form of contributory infringement..., and we need to be careful. If Cook's performance isn't legitimately accessible anywhere, that's a real shame (it was a masterpiece of satire) but rules is rules. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:05, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, . Moonraker (talk) 19:39, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Julian Moynahan
Hello! Your submission of Julian Moynahan at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there at your earliest convenience. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! SL93 (talk) 15:40, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Sarah Oakley
&mdash; Amakuru (talk) 00:03, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I have never heard of a parade being helmed, but the English language gets abused all the time. Moonraker (talk) 06:24, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Motilla del Azuer
&mdash; Amakuru (talk) 00:03, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

ArbCom 2022 Elections voter message
 Hello! Voting in the 2022 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2022 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:40, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Julian Moynahan
Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:02, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Peace Dove
Happy Holidays. &#8213; Buster7  &#9742;   20:57, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you, . That sounds ideal, but also unrealistic. To me, peace is simply not starting wars, something we do far too much of, and also not taking steps to end them by talking. We agree on “conflicts are resolved through dialog”, but all too often what we get instead is endless propaganda, and we fail to challenge it. Moonraker (talk) 11:02, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Turkish city, 250,000 population
Hi, you sent me a Talk page message about a Turkish city suggesting it be given the Greek name from 100 years ago. Can I ask what prompted that? Because coincidence - another editor has suddenly argued the same thing. Is there something going on that readers should be aware of? In ictu oculi (talk) 14:47, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi, it was prompted by reading the whole of the talk page. It is certainly a city in Turkey. I was not aware of any other editor taking an interest but now see that a new section has been created on the talk page so will contribute to that.
 * In reply to your header above, Rome and Milan are much bigger Italian cities. It is not a helpful line of argument. Moonraker (talk) 15:06, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Do you know anything about en.wp Geography project? In ictu oculi (talk) 17:27, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
 * No. Do you have a point from it? Moonraker (talk) 17:57, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes - we use modern English sources like urban geography books In ictu oculi (talk) 09:05, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Robert Bolgar
-- RoySmith (talk) 00:03, 19 December 2022 (UTC)


 * He didn’t say murdered. Moonraker (talk) 15:04, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

December music
We sang Charpentier's delightful Messe de minuit pour Noël today, which was on DYK yesterday, - a first for me, pictured, - enjoy the season! -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:13, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

why did you remove the "name of Pakistan" section from wiki article of Pakistan
why did you remove the "name of Pakistan" section from wiki article of Pakistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan 39.50.26.82 (talk) 13:46, 30 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi, IP. I removed it because I had added it without spotting that it was largely duplicating a section called “Pakistan”. Then I edited that to add into it what was new. Moonraker (talk) 16:33, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I have renamed it as “Name of Pakistan”, which I agree is better. Moonraker (talk) 08:08, 2 January 2023 (UTC)