User talk:RevelationDirect

BrownHairedGirl
I am deeply saddened that BrownHairedGirl and I were both unable to initially resolve our differences one-on-one at her talk page. I've re-read that exchange at least a dozen times to try and figure out where I could have defused things early on but I remain uncertain.

As far as the ArbComm case, my evidence is here and my analysis is here and I don’t have anything to add. Except that I remain surprised that BrownHairedGirl did not eventually submit at least some formal evidence because I'm convinced that would have led to a better and more nuanced outcome.

I have almost always appreciated BrownHairedGirl's substantive contributions and still proudly display a CFD-related barnstar from her on my user page. If you came here to congratulate me for her site ban or do any WP:GRAVEDANCING, you have badly misread me. Please take that junk elsewhere. - RevelationDirect (talk) 13:06, 24 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Nice Cup of Tea.jpg How about a nice cup of tea instead, because I hope with the case now over, you can take some time to rest and recharge. And I think it is always good to remember "Wikipedia doesn't need you to be the hero and save the day, it only needs you to be the best collaborative editor you can be." Cheers, Beccaynr (talk) 05:01, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Schema issue for the naming of law enforcement operations category
Please see the talk on Category:U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. I'm sure you are partial to the page you created, but I think it's less intutive than the one created for the FBI. I'm reviewing the law enforcement operation pages for the agencies to see if they exist and how they are named. My current knee jerk reaction is to use the naming as was for the FBI enforcement operations Category:Federal Bureau of Investigation operations.

That would mean going through and relinking each of the pages for ICE to the new category Category:U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. eximo (talk) 17:50, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pinging me and let me give a little context: Generally we follow the main article's naming format in the category space per WP:C2D to make navigation easier for the readers . So, the main article is U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement so the corresponding category matches with Category:U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Similarly, the main article for the FBI is Federal Bureau of Investigation so that subcategory is Category:Federal Bureau of Investigation operations to match. The difference you're see between the categories is because one agency has "U.S." in the main article and one does not. If you think an article does not follow the WP:COMMONNAME or could be improved, you can create an WP:RM on that article's talk page. (If that RM is successful, you can then use WP:C2D to speedy rename the category.) Since so few people visit category talk pages though, if you think there's a navigational benefit to changing the category name, that would be discussed centrally at a WP:CFD nomination. So, I respectfully disagree with renaming the category and I want you to point you to the right place if you want to proceed! Let me know if you have other questions about CFD though; it can be confusing to even established editors that haven't seen that process before.Either, way, happy editing! - RevelationDirect (talk) 20:11, 25 January 2024 (UTC)



I've looked at every page that is included in the Category:U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and there is a nuanced difference between that category and the type of pages it is included on and Category:Federal Bureau of Investigation operations. For example, Homeland Security Investigations, Basile Detention Center or any of the other detention centers, Death of Carlos Ernesto Escobar Mejía which are in the (ICE) category would not be included in the "ICE OPERATIONS" category. I think the category that is specific to the Operations for each of the Law enforcement Agency (LEA): would be very beneficial. I found the category created for the FBI's operations most informative and desire to create one for each LEA.
 * Homeland Security Investigations (HSI)
 * Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)
 * Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA)
 * U.S. Postal Inspection Service (USPIS)[2]
 * IRS Criminal Investigation (IRS-CI)
 * Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF)
 * Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS)

So I'm less inclined to suggest a name change to your category. But there will be redundancy that is sure to draw the ire of a few purist. I'm apprehensive though if I go through with this, that somebody with more authority will invoke a speedy deletion on the project. What are your thoughts? eximo (talk) 04:15, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Just saw the Hotcat update you made to the category, I'm not clear on what you did. What does the Pipe operator do in this category you added? Category:U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement|Operations. Any help to understand would be appreciated, so I can utilize the skill myself in the future. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jiwhit01 (talk • contribs) 09:16, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Sorry if my reply is too long; I get wordy sometimes! - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:45, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * 1) I'm not an admin or anything. We're just two editors having a conversation and it sounds like I misunderstood your question the first time.
 * 2) The pipe just changes how the subcategory is alphabetized under Category:U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement so it's under P. That's not a big deal here with only two subcategories, but in a category like this with a bunch of subcats that all start with the same letter it can be helpful.
 * 3) More importantly, I made Category:Immigration and Customs Enforcement operations a subcatgory of Category:Immigration and Customs Enforcement operations just like Category:Federal Bureau of Investigation operations is a subcategory of Category:Federal Bureau of Investigation. That means readers can use the ICE tree to easily navigate between the two subcategories and the parent category.
 * 4) So both of the categories we created serve a purpose: the parent one I created would still keep articles like U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Port Isabel Detention Center, and Death of Carlos Ernesto Escobar Mejía since those are not operations.
 * 5) Go ahead and be WP:BOLD and move operations articles like Operation Scheduled Departure and Operation Dark Huntor into the Category:Immigration and Customs Enforcement operations subcategory and out of the Category:U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement parent category. (See WP:DIFFUSE for more background on how this works.)
 * 6) (If you were looking to completely empty a category, more discussion would be needed at WP:CFD but I don't think that should be the case here.)
 * 7) Is it OK if I speedy rename Category:Immigration and Customs Enforcement operations to Category:U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement operations so it matches the other 2 categories?


 * @RevelationDirect
 * 2 response is VERY Helpful! I didn't know that, and was wondering about how to do that
 * 3 All a good idea, good change, thank you
 * 4 Agree whole heartedly, I'm on the same page as you
 * 5 I'll do that, thank you for the assignment, and being clear
 * 6 Originally, that was what I thought, but after discussion and understanding the nuanced differences here, your idea is significantly better
 * 7 Yes, but does that propagate through all the other pages or do we have to go manually and update each page that ends up with a broken link?
 * eximo (talk) 19:22, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
 * 6/7: Yes, when you nominate categories for renaming either through the speedy process or CFD, the links on all the pages are updated automatically without manual effort. (In fact, doing so manually is frowned upon since it loses the history, see WP:CUTPASTE for background.) - RevelationDirect (talk) 19:52, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Women in Red
Hi there, RevelationDirect, and welcome to Women in Red. It's good to see you now intend to spend more of your editing time writing about women's history and women's clubhouses. I see you have already made a good start on this. You might also be inspired to develop some of the associated biographies. If so, you will find guidance in our Primer. You might like to add our user box to your user page where others will be able to see your interest in the project. Please let me know if you run into any difficulties or need assistance. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 10:40, 23 February 2024 (UTC)


 * I suppose you are aware of this site. There seems to be plenty of scope for covering more women's clubs although some of them are certainly of more historical interest than others.--Ipigott (talk) 12:46, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I wasn't but that's a good resource too. I had been going through the List of YWCA buildings to clear out redlinks but stumbled on WikiProject Women in Red/Clubwomen. I do mostly organizations/buildings and didn't realize WIW worked beyond biographies so I was happy to join in! RevelationDirect (talk) 00:25, 25 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Women's works and organizations are an important aspect of our coverage. Keep up the good work!--Ipigott (talk) 06:55, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started
Hello, RevelationDirect. Thank you for your work on Kirkland Woman's Club. Cocobb8, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with. Please remember to sign your reply with ~. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

 Coco bb8  (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 14:06, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of List of mayors of Wilmington, Delaware


The article List of mayors of Wilmington, Delaware has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern: "No sources for 16 years"

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. AusLondonder (talk) 23:56, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
 * That was way too long! Multiple citations added. RevelationDirect (talk) 22:04, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started
Hello, RevelationDirect. Thank you for your work on Coca-Cola Syrup Plant. SunDawn, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with. Please remember to sign your reply with ~. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

&maltese; SunDawn &maltese;   (contact)   03:43, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started
Hello, RevelationDirect. Thank you for your work on IBEW Building. SunDawn, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with. Please remember to sign your reply with ~. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

&maltese; SunDawn &maltese;   (contact)   02:44, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started
Hi RevelationDirect, thank you for your work on YMCA Sign. Another editor, SunDawn, has reviewed it as part of our new pages patrol and left the following comment:

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

&maltese; SunDawn &maltese;   (contact)   14:47, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Courtesy notice of closed RM of Metropolitan Club (New York City)
Hi RevelationDirect, just wanted to let you know I've closed the requested move discussion on the talk page as successful and moved Metropolitan Club (New York City). You mentioned you would be interested in doing some of the cleanup associated with it, so this is a quick courtesy notice. The page Metropolitan Club is now a DAB page in the event the links don't get fixed. Cheers, microbiology Marcus [petri dish·growths] 17:35, 25 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Looks like 499 links:, might require an AWB assisted cleanup. microbiology Marcus [petri dish·growths] 17:58, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Categories for Sámi peoples
Hi! My apologies for replying so late and on your talk page (my talk page got archived), but I am quite concerned by the destruction of a well though out category structure that mirrors the same categories for non-Sámi people and by the people doing it not having a clue as to what they are merging stuff into, even when it has been pointed out that the categories they are upmerging stuff into are not appropriate. If they spent half as much time looking for people to add to these categories as they do proposing them, there would be no need for a discussion. On the other hand, I am also annoyed by the fact that any attempts to discuss this on these proposals are ignored and usually sets off another round of deletion/merging requests for more Sámi categories to the point where I no longer want to participate in the "discussions" to save the few remaining categories that are left. - Yupik (talk) 15:50, 28 April 2024 (UTC)


 * And shortly after I wrote that, Cat:Sámi textbook writers got put up for splitting.... - Yupik (talk) 16:33, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

You have Come to the right place! Not to brag but, after my foibles last year, I think I'm the best editor on Wikipedia to advise you on category drama.

We've both been on Wikipedia for a long time and remember when categories were important. But the Wikimedia Foundation chose not to display categories on the mobile view and, since most Wikipeda readers use phones and tablets, they never even see the categories let alone click on them. Instead, mobile readers see three auto-generated "Related Articles" at the bottom of the page.

That decision is frustrating to me, both because I've spent a lot of time on categories and because the what appears in "Related Articles" is so badly selected. The remaining editors at WP:CFD are caring and thoughtful but the process is less nuanced because there are so few of them as so many justifiably lost interest and weren't replaced. Just look at how much more well attended discussions were ten years ago!

I pulled up the oldest article and oldest category you created with the word "Sámi" in it:
 * 47,000+ pageviews since 2021 for Sámi National Day (source)
 * 450 pageviews since 2021 for Category:Sámi politicians (source)

I didn't look at the particular nomination you mentioned and don't have a substantive opinion, but I do recognize the level of frustration because I've been there. My advice is to deprioritize the categories and instead to focus your time on creating/improving Sámi articles, since that's what readers care about.

, née SamX, gave me the same advice last year but I just wasn't ready for it. But maybe you want to invest time so CFD has a much needed additional voice, but just know it's a big effort. Either way, I wish you the best! - RevelationDirect (talk) 11:44, 29 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Thank for the advice and I'm sorry that you have also been frustrated with these types of decisions. I've already basically stopped writing here on enwp as it is because all the fun of doing so has been stripped away by the overzealous. The people who prefer to use marketing material from the tourist industry and sources stemming from scientific racism already drove away my colleagues, who are Sámi (I am not), 15 or so years ago.
 * Apparently categories is the new target and that is also frustrating beyond belief. I'm not sure who is left at CfD since it is the same two-person tag team that keeps targetting these categories and approving each other's nominations, so any input I or anyone else gives is pointless. So I will be taking your advice and deprioritize categories; I don't have the time and rn I definitely don't have the patience or desire to bang my head against the wall. Unfortunately, I will also not likely touch articles anymore beyond reverting the garbage some IP address keeps sticking into Skolt Saami articles :/
 * Do you btw know of any way to turn off notifications for Cfd? There's no point in me seeing them since the categories will just be deleted or merged anyways. - Yupik (talk) 13:05, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
 * BTW the pageviews for articles are hard to actually calculate since someone who knows nothing about the Sámi decided to all of a sudden move things around Sámi<->Sami<->Saami and back somewhere around 2021. All of the items had been carefully curated to use the form that was used in English by person or instance it was talking about, so the Saami Council, but the Sámi Parliament in Finland, etc. but they just moved them willy-nilly and then they moved some, but not all of them back. >.< So if you add Category:Saami politicians to the pageview query, the number rises to 1400 since 2015. For the Sámi/Saami/Sami National Day, it is has been viewed 112,420 times. - Yupik (talk) 13:14, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
 * If you place  on your talk page, it will block all bot notices. That would also include Women in Red and similar notices though. The tool being used for the automatic CFD notices is called Twinkle but I'm not sure if it calls some other bot to do that.  You might try   and see if that works. (Bots are way outside my area of expertise; User:Pppery is a wiz with them though and is a helpful admin if you need more guidance there.)For me, when I'm having trouble with WP:AGF with multiple editors, that's usually when it's time for me to take wikibreak, or at least to shift areas. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:14, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Reminder to vote now to select members of the first U4C

 * You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki. 

Dear Wikimedian,

You are receiving this message because you previously participated in the UCoC process.

This is a reminder that the voting period for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) ends on May 9, 2024. Read the information on the voting page on Meta-wiki to learn more about voting and voter eligibility.

The Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) is a global group dedicated to providing an equitable and consistent implementation of the UCoC. Community members were invited to submit their applications for the U4C. For more information and the responsibilities of the U4C, please review the U4C Charter.

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I have sent you a note about a page you started
Hi RevelationDirect. Thank you for your work on Max Kiel Building (1850). Another editor, Voorts, has reviewed it as part of new pages patrol and left the following comment:

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

voorts (talk/contributions) 21:27, 26 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Oops, tagged for deletion and recreated under "Keil". - RevelationDirect (talk) 21:36, 26 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Oops, read your initial message too fast. Created Category:Redirects from National Register of Historic Places alternative names to group the redirects. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:23, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started
Hi RevelationDirect. Thank you for your work on YMCA Building (San Diego). Another editor, Aszx5000, has reviewed it as part of new pages patrol and left the following comment:

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

Aszx5000 (talk) 13:55, 16 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I don't mind the scrutiny but would that save other editors time? If so, how do I apply to become autopatrolled? - RevelationDirect (talk) 14:55, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * For editors who are definitely at the standard - and the articles you are creating at at that standard - it is far more efficient that they are autopatrolled, which you can ask for here (you will see I pointed User:Pdebee there yesterday for the same reasons).
 * Also, you should think about WP:DYKNOM which is a very nice way of further validating new articles (you get 7 days to put your new article to DYK), which is another good validation of your editing :) best regards Aszx5000 (talk) 15:27, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Autopatrolled granted
Hi RevelationDirect, I just wanted to let you know that I have added the autopatrolled user right to your account. This means that pages you create will automatically be marked as 'reviewed', and no longer appear in the new pages feed. Autopatrolled is assigned to prolific creators of articles, where those articles do not require further review, and may have been requested on your behalf by someone else. It doesn't affect how you edit; it is used only to manage the workload of new page patrollers.

Since the articles you create will no longer be systematically reviewed by other editors, it is important that you maintain the high standard you have achieved so far in all your future creations. Please also try to remember to add relevant WikiProject templates, stub tags, categories, and incoming links to them, if you aren't already in the habit; user scripts such as Rater and StubSorter can help with this. As you have already shown that you have a strong grasp of Wikipedia's core content policies, you might also consider volunteering to become a new page patroller yourself, helping to uphold the project's standards and encourage other good faith article writers.

Feel free to leave me a message if you have any questions. Happy editing! Elli (talk &#124; contribs) 13:24, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Women in Red August 2024
--Lajmmoore (talk 14:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC) via MassMessaging

DYK for YMCA Building (San Diego)
Clovermoss 🍀 (talk) 00:03, 14 July 2024 (UTC)