User talk:Viriditas/Archive 11

WPHawaii
Hi there, I'm not sure if you're going to like this or not. I redesigned the box and assigned it new colors. Check it out. I might need some help on one thing (that is, if you like it). I hope you decide to keep it, and I really, really hope you like it. Oh, and use Firefox if possible. I don't know how it looks on IE. – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 08:16, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You're doing fine. You have a reputation for good work, so don't worry so much.  I have a little free time right now, so I'll try and get some things done.  In the very near future, we should talk more about these things. Viriditas (talk) 04:07, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I'm getting slammed with work, but I've been devoting more time to this, because it's the only thing that's keeping me really sane (and become more knowledgeable for school). Thanks for all the work you've done. I think you deserve a little something... (hint-hint) – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 22:12, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Would you consider reverting the project tag for right now? Just chalk it up to a demo.  :) I'm seeing several problems with it in different browsers, and I suggest we talk about it first.  For one, it isn't nesting with the proper size using Wpbs; there are also several other issues we should address.  One thing we desperately need to do is add the B-Class criteria checklist and Category:FL-Class Hawaii articles to the template. Viriditas (talk) 09:16, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You see, the problem is, I'm not exactly sure how to collapse it without making it look weird. And everything looks fine on my browser. Let me look on IE and I'll get back to you. – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 16:37, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem. There's no hurry on this.  I might look into the issue and try to help later today.  Have a great day! :) Viriditas (talk) 16:51, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, no! I'm sorry! Let me look into it. – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 05:11, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't worry about it. I'll manually run the WP 1.0 bot using the web interface; that might fix it! :) Viriditas (talk) 06:57, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It didn't work. Not to worry, I'll ask MPerel to run AWB.  We need to reassess anyway. Viriditas (talk) 07:07, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Happy Thanksgiving!
I may not know you, but in the interest of wikilove:

Re: Samuel Kamakau
Thanks :) And yes, I have, but I was looking over the criteria and DYK requires inline citations; I pulled all of the info from two sources and mixed them together, so citing inline wouldn't make much sense. Unless the sentence about Ke Kula o Samuel M. Kamakau would work as the DYK hook...but the article would still need more inline cites, I think. &mdash;Kal (talk) 20:04, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The hooks...I'll think about those and get back to you later. &mdash;Kal (talk) 01:56, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * These need some copyediting, but here goes:
 * ... that a Hawaiian language immersion school is named after Hawaiian historian Samuel Kamakau?
 * ... that Samuel Kamakau, a Hawaiian scholar, wrote over 200 articles about Hawaiian history for Hawaiian newspapers? (the word "Hawaiian" is used too much in this one...)
 * ... that Samuel Kamakau, a Hawaiian scholar, contributed over 200 writings to the current knowledge of Hawaiian culture and history?
 * There aren't many interesting things that can be pulled from the article. &mdash;Kal (talk) 21:09, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Those are fine. But if you take a look at the sources in the further reading section, you'll find some amazing factoids.  From what I can tell Kamakau was the first historian to document in print the oral history of the Native Hawaiian recollection of first contact!  You may want to pursue this as it would make a fascinating DYK.  More later... Viriditas (talk) 23:31, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That would indeed make for an interesting DYK...I'd peruse the sources for more factoids if I had access to them :P (... that Samuel Kamakau, a Hawaiian scholar, was the first historian to document the Hawaiians' recollection of the first Western contact?) &mdash;Kal (talk) 04:13, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Not to worry, I found those particular sources on Google books. Viriditas (talk) 08:07, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, no problem then. I'll take a look at them tomorrow. &mdash;Kal (talk) 08:46, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll see if I can help. What are you going to do with the temp page? I've added the inline refs for you.  Viriditas (talk) 11:38, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The temp page is definitely improved, and should be copied over to the main article. I skimmed over the books, and didn't really find anything interesting about Kamakau himself; it's mainly about the history in the things he wrote. Another possible hook would be about his attendance of Lahainaluna, but that seems to emphasize Lahainaluna as the subject: "... that Samuel Kamakau, a Hawaiian scholar who contributed over 200 writings to the current knowledge of Hawaiian culture and history, attended Lahainaluna Seminary, the oldest public high school west of the Rocky Mountains?" The first contact DYK still seems like a better option. &mdash;Kal (talk) 21:44, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I've gone ahead and copied the temp page over to the article. &mdash;Kal (talk) 21:50, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks good. There's a few issues with grammar and word choice, but otherwise no problems.  Go with your gut in regards to the DYK.  I'll see if I can help out some more in a bit. Viriditas (talk) 03:25, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * If all goes well, I'll probably nominate the DYK tomorrow. &mdash;Kal (talk) 08:28, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I just read he was buried in the cemetery of the Kahikolu church. I'll try to confirm and add it to the article. Viriditas (talk) 10:45, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Appears to be a different person by the same name. But we must ask, where was he buried? Viriditas (talk) 10:51, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Interesting question. However, nice job on the temp page. Gives yet another interesting hook for the DYK :) &mdash;Kal (talk) 15:47, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Seriously, it's a bottomless well. I'm convinced we can use the first contact one, but I haven't had time to find the exact sources.  I know there are at least two that say he is notable for this. But you know what?  Go ahead and make the DYK you personally feel comfortable with and get it over with. :)   You can even submit an alternate.  One thing that bothers me is that I've seen a few images floating around (I think they are drawings) but I can't tell if they are free or not.  Too bad, as I wanted to upload them.  Oh, and if you want another DYK, we need an article on David Malo. Have a great day, I'm going offline for a bit. Viriditas (talk) 15:50, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I can't find any sources that claim Kamakau was the first to document the first contact. So I guess I'll forgo that for the DYK and try a Samuel Kamakau Day hook instead, since 5 days after the article's creation would be tonight, I think. Mahalo no kou mau haawina a pau i ka mea! (Thanks for all your contributions to the article!) &mdash;Kal (talk) 04:32, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The DYK nom is up, with SMK Day as the proposed hook and a historical society hook as an alternate. &mdash;Kal (talk) 07:14, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Fantastic! :) You really did a good job on this... Viriditas (talk) 09:20, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. The process was much easier than I expected :P And your help was invaluable, especially your additions and the sources you found! :D (I need to find the time to head up to the library and check out Ruling Chiefs...:P) &mdash;Kal (talk) 03:31, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments welcome
Would you care to coment or contibute at the new discussions at where it is being determined just what parts of IMDB might be considered "generally reliable" and which parts might not? Thank you.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 21:42, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for contacting me. I would love to contribute, however, I am no longer a member of WP:FILMS and generally do not participate in most related articles or debates concerning that project.  I apologize in advance. Viriditas (talk) 00:42, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Island Templates
I revamped the island templates. You can see it at any of the Island pages (try Molokai or Lanaʻi). – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 03:48, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Great. My only issue is with the width.  The previous width was 280, I believe.  Can you check the current width and make it smaller?  It's just too wide.  Remember, we are designing for multiple monitor resoution and browser layout.  Make sure you check it on multiple montior resolutions before implementing.  Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 03:57, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Cool, I did you one better and went to 275. It seems that my resolution is causing many problems, so I switched my resolution to 1024 x 768. – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 04:30, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Much better! Now, I'm seeing an issue with the smaller boxes. For example, look at Lanaʻi.  The height of the orange boxes seems a tad too big.  Start with the top, where it says "Lānaʻi The Pineapple Isle or The Secluded Isle".   There's just too much spacing on the top and bottom.  Can you try shrinking it a bit?  I think we need to be really careful here, because if the infoboxes overwhelm the text (which they currently do) I might argue for their removal.  The infoboxes should not use glaring colors (like Lanaʻi) and should not distract the reader.  Right now, I find them really distracting.  But, that's just me.  Keep doing what you're doing.  Experimenting is a great way of making new discoveries.  Viriditas (talk) 04:39, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, I reduced the padding. The beautiful part of the template is that you can change the color in the infobox code itself. – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 05:14, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Hey, could you review a template I made? User talk:The Obento Musubi/US State - I'm thinking of presenting this to the community as an alternate design for geographical infoboxes. Do you believe it should be wider? Should I make any edits? – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 05:28, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm already biased, so my opinion shouldn't count for much. But as you can tell, I prefer the small, transparent title box of the current version. The large blue box that you added is pretty, but doesn't add much in the way of information, and remember, that's our first priority.  I don't know where the community stands on this, but my guess is that we are moving away from using infoboxes.  I could be completely wrong of course, so don't give my opinion too much weight.  But I've seen various projects stop using them, and to be honest, it seems like less and less featured articles have them, so I don't know what to say.  Heh, I'm probably the wrong person to ask! :) Viriditas (talk) 07:26, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Just a note
I noticed a discussion you were trying to have and thought I'd point out this. His user talk page policy was created because he objected to notices about this RfC, and he's refused to participate, so far, in two discussions that have attempted to address his behavior (AN/I and the RfC). His has been a contentious existence so far on Wikipedia. Wildhartlivie (talk) 12:48, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Any particular reason he isn't blocked? Viriditas (talk) 12:51, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You've got me. There were two or three admins he kept going to for backing and got none. When we took it to AN/I, the response was that it was too involved and should be taken to RfC, but basically, if he won't participate in RfC, it kills the effort. So far, I'm really frustrated with the lack of administrator follow through. He should have been blocked the first day, with the horrible personal attacks and such. Wildhartlivie (talk) 13:05, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I know what you mean. I was very civil with him and he still accused me of being condescending.  Harumph! Viriditas (talk) 13:13, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I suspect in this case, condescending = says you're wrong. Wildhartlivie (talk) 13:25, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Right. Anyhoo, sounds like it's time for another AN/I report, but that's like preparing to go to the dentist or the proctologist.  I can't say I'm excited. Viriditas (talk) 13:31, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, let me know and I'll pop in with some experiences I've had. Wildhartlivie (talk) 13:36, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a plan. I'm willing to give him some more time to answer the questions I've asked of him on Talk:Hippie and fix the article accordingly.  Do you get the impression that there's a bit of a language barrier?  It's too bad we have to waste time on behavioral problems.  He's had plenty of chances already. Viriditas (talk) 13:42, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think the language barrier is all that much of a problem. Some countries teach English right along with their native language and in this case, I think there is a person involved who grew up in the US. I've followed a lot of links and read a lot of external webpages recently and have a pretty good handle on what's going on here. It's not misunderstanding, it's attitude. Wildhartlivie (talk) 13:55, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That sounds right. Look, the problem with the RfC is that the evidence section is just too long. Most admins are going to ignore it with tl;dr.  With any type of dispute resolution, you want to get to the point immediately and I can see how there's a lot of extraneous text in that section that could be removed for readability.  I'll finish reading it tomorrow.  If I agree with it, I'll endorse it and possibly add my own comment. Viriditas (talk) 14:00, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks. The problem was, so much went on and it was all over the place. I just didn't know how to condense it without missing something. Fortunately, I've not had to do much with AN/I and RfC. Wildhartlivie (talk) 14:18, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

If you don't mind
Would you please take a look at Mediocre (album) and determine whether or not it's up to GA status? If so, could you also please leave comments at Talk:Mediocre (album)/GA1? Thank you so much! – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 20:59, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure, but I won't be able to get to it until tomorrow. I've got a lot on my plate right now. Viriditas (talk) 23:26, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Notice of impending FAC
I'm planning to nominate Gerard K. O'Neill at WP:FAC in the next couple of days. Because you were a significant contributor to the article, I thought I would let you know in case you had any last minute comments or concerns. Wronkiew (talk) 02:04, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You're far too kind, but no, the edit history shows that I was not a significant contributor to that article in any way, nor should I be mentioned as such. To be perfectly honest, you deserve 100% credit as you are the primary contributor.  Without you, the article would never have made it to GA, let alone as a FAC.  Viriditas (talk) 02:17, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, just because I rewrote everything doesn't mean the work that had been done before wasn't helpful. This being my first nomination, I wanted to make sure all my bases were covered. Wronkiew (talk) 02:40, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I assumed that was the case. Not to worry.  Did you use vs.aka-online.de/cgi-bin/wppagehiststat.pl?  Here are the top 10 editors:

User	 # edits  # Minor edits (%)	First edit	        Last edit               ATBE Wronkiew	122	36	29.5%	2004-11-04 18:51	2008-11-27 07:07	12.3 d Wolfkeeper	14	6	42.9%	2005-05-03 00:52	2008-08-13 09:57	92.2 d 70.26.101.52	11	0	0.0%	2005-05-28 20:59	2005-06-07 23:16	24:13 h Viriditas	8	0	0.0%	2005-05-29 05:46	2008-08-22 23:45	168.8 d ***Ria777	5	3	60.0%	2006-09-03 17:20	2006-09-03 17:25	82 s ThuranX	4	1	25.0%	2006-04-22 15:28	2006-09-04 01:25	44.8 d Dacoutts	4	0	0.0%	2006-02-09 00:56	2006-02-09 01:11	5:00 m SmackBot	3	2	66.7%	2006-08-29 01:06	2007-11-14 11:14	221.2 d Philip Stevens	3	1	33.3%	2005-12-16 16:35	2006-01-23 19:25	19.1 d 138.130.15.169	3	0	0.0%	2005-11-28 02:03	2005-11-28 02:10	3:09


 * Good luck with your FAC! :) Viriditas (talk) 02:43, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the link, that's very helpful. Wronkiew (talk) 02:49, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Hawaii WikiProject Newsletter - Issue VIII - November 2008
Aloha. The November 2008 issue of the Hawaii WikiProject newsletter has been published. To change your delivery options or unsubscribe, visit this link. Mahalo nui loa. WikiProject Hawaii 07:05, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Mediocre (album)
Yes, thanks! In fact, I'm thinking of nominating it for FA soon. Thoughts? Recommendations? – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 04:24, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Most of the notes in the Track listing section might work better as a prose paragraph, similar to the Singles section. Critical reception could be expanded, as could Musical style, and Recording and production.  My guess is that you're going to be asked to expand the article before you get to FA. Good luck! Viriditas (talk) 04:31, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Environment of Hawaii
Just so that I'm clear, are you suggesting a main page or a section within Hawai'i?--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:04, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Both, either/or, or neither. Can you talk a little bit more about what you want, so I can understand what you are trying to do with the data? Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 10:41, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I was thinking simply of a section on the Hawai'i page entitled Environment or something like that. The section would have a couple of sentences about the state of the environment and could expand into subsections or a main page if people worked on it. Something like:


 * Relative to the mainland US, Hawaii's overall blah blah. The drinking water is blah blah. Air quality blah blah. Beaches and surrounding oceans...oooh well that's another matter. Efforts to improve blah blah.


 * That sort of thing. So, what do you think? Does it have a place?--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 16:31, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, absolutely. That sounds great! :) Viriditas (talk) 10:22, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Kamilo Beach
Thanks for taking an interest in Kamilo. I have only created two articles and it is nice to see someone actually critiquing. I am a beginner.

I am swapping emails with someone who did a clean up there. She read the article and didn't mention the location info was faulty. I will ask her to confirm.

The Long Beach California link seemed ok, as it referred to the one in California. You changed it to what is now a disambiguation page. I didn't change it yet, but my guess is it should read Long Beach, California, though I am not sure.

Good job on the lead -- a definite improvement.

I think you are right about that reporter getting his facts wrong. I think it was he who cited Karla Dermit as Carla McDermott in one of his magazine articles. He is from the islands. Maybe he was goofed on Maui-wowie.

Thanks!!--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:54, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry about the dab page. That was my mistake.  I fixed it. Viriditas (talk) 14:20, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * No worries. All those brackets and parentheses and such -- totally befuddling.--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 16:33, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Re: Clark, John R. K. (1985). Beaches of The Big Island. I live in China. I could ask at the book shop, but I think they would just start laughing at me.--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 16:39, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You can access it on Google books, along with Clark's other book called "Hawaii Place Names", which briefly describes the beach. Viriditas (talk) 10:23, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Will check. Thanks.--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:42, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think there is any way to make the deadline on the Kamilo DUY.--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:46, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You still have another day! Viriditas (talk) 12:33, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Searched for Kamilo on http://books.google.com/books?id=ligZzOytgK4C&pg=PP1&dq=beaches+of+the+big+island#PPP1,M1 but couldn't find Kamilo.--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:00, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * If it's all the same to you, I think I'll watch this one, see the outcome, and learn. I would only be a 5th wheel. I am so pleased you have taken an interest. Thank you.--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:17, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem. BTW, information about "Kamilo" beach is on p.69.  I'll add some of it to the article. Viriditas (talk) 08:55, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Wow, thanks. I feel like I'm in slow motion. It's all happening so fast. It's like the first time you play air hockey.--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 09:08, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * There's actually some interesting information here if you are interested in doing some research. Clark classifies Kamilo as a storm beach, and it is more commonly known on maps by its associated landform, Kamilo Point.  There is a lot more information here, so I'll help out as I have time. Viriditas (talk) 09:16, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I was wondering what the objective measure of "dirtiness" is.

There's another problem ... we can't use that picture since it's copyrighted by Algalita. It will have to be deleted at Commons. And I couldn't find any photos on Flickr that we could use. Sigh. Daniel Case (talk) 10:49, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I had had a long time opening up the 60 Minutes page to the point where I could scroll through it. When I found the fact, and edited the article appropriately, I added my note, not having read yours which had been posted in the meantime. I have said yes to the current hook, but as noted above removed the image. Daniel Case (talk) 10:52, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The Algalita photo is public domain. I have emails to prove it. I have been exchanging correspondence with them. Here is an except.

Flag this message Re: Kamilo Beach Friday, December 5, 2008 12:30 PM From: "Marieta Francis"  Add sender to Contacts To: xxxxxxxxxxxx@yahoo.com Any of the photos in the gallery on our website are public domain and can be used. We just ask for photo credit and our website listed, if possible. Marieta

Flag this message Re: Kamilo Beach Friday, December 5, 2008 12:29 PM From: "Marieta Francis"  Add sender to Contacts To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@yahoo.com Yes, the photos on our website are public domain.

Please pass this on... Thanks--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:55, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I see Beaches of the Big Island stating swirling currents as the meaning of the work Kamilo, not twisting, if you wrote that. May I change it?--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:40, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Kal wrote that, and he is fluent in Hawaiian. But, it's also translated as "the twisting" in Clark's Hawai'i Place Names..  The translation in Clark's Beaches of the Big Island comes not from that source, but from Native Planters in Old Hawaii (which I added to the further reading section) which Clark himself quotes.  Both are correct, and I would suggest listing both in the article. Viriditas (talk) 11:50, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, um...I'm not fluent in Hawaiian. I'm learning, but I'm definitely not fluent. But I took the translation from Place Names of Hawaii (online entry for "Ka-milo" in Place Names). The Hawaiian Dictionary also defines milo as "to curl", "to twist", or "to whirl (as water)". But I suppose "swirling currents" could be an interpretation, as "twisting" is merely a literal translation. &mdash;Kal (talk) 23:56, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Wow! I just saw it on the Main Page. Thank you all for your efforts. I am tickled pink! You folks really know how to snap into action. You should be in charge of the planet.--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:21, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Re: Portal:Hawaii/Did you know
Sure, I'd be happy to help. :) I'll take a closer look at what needs to be done later today; right now, it's time for sleep! &mdash;Kal (talk) 11:10, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Any suggestions on how many DYKs should be featured in each random picking? &mdash;Kal (talk) 00:24, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure. But, I like how Portal:California uses three at a time.  That seems to work well.  Viriditas (talk) 05:41, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Done! There were exactly 18 DYKs, which made for an even distribution. :) &mdash;Kal (talk) 06:29, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Very nice. What kind of rotation are you using?  Do you see how to set it on reload? Viriditas (talk) 06:35, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I followed Portal:California's method, which uses the template. The DYKs are clustered together in threes (Portal:Hawaii/Did you know/1, Portal:Hawaii/Did you know/2...6). It should be changing on each reload. &mdash;Kal (talk) 06:58, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I had to clear my cache to see it.  Listen, how do you feel about continuing to update the Portal?  Do you have any ideas for cleaning up the current layout?  It's a bit rusty, if you ask me, and not very user friendly.  I hope you'll play around with it when you have free time.  Is there anything you want to see added? Viriditas (talk) 07:03, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I can't think of any major changes at the moment, but if I do I'll be sure to mention them. &mdash;Kal (talk) 02:43, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Photo on a government site
Quick question: Can I use a photo (pie chart actually) from a usa.gov site? The site is: --Anna Frodesiak (talk) 05:17, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That's a really good question. First, it's not a photo, it's a GIF chart.  My understanding is that pie charts on Wikipedia should be uploaded in SVG if possible, if not, then as PNG.  GIFs should be avoided.  Second, the chart doesn't appear to belong to NASA.  It belongs to Maurice H. Kaya, who gave a presentation at a NASA-sponsored "Air Pollution as a Climate Forcing" workshop.  I'm not entirely sure of the copyright status, but it seems easy enough to simply recreate the chart in your chosen software application and attribute the data to Kaya.  If you do that, it should be easy to upload the file to commons.  Could you just upload the GIF?  Maybe, but the chart doesn't belong to NASA.  I would suggest simply recreating it.  One way to do this is to use OpenOffice.org Calc. Viriditas (talk) 05:56, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you kindly. Good advice. Please advise on the Hawaii Enviro subsection when you get a chance . And thanks for the jellied eels. --Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:06, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Will do. It's great to see you taking a lead role on this.  WikiProject Hawaii can certainly use your help! And, I think you should pursue turning your wonderful "EEL OF EXCELLENCE" award into a template.  Have you worked with templates before? Viriditas (talk) 10:24, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Last time I tried to read about templates my head sucked into my neck like a bellybutton, then popped out and exploded like the villain at the end of Live and Let Die.--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 15:19, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Al Rosen
Just how credible is this: []?? Blog, yes, but the guy was a Cheers writer, if it is so.--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 15:14, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Re:Muntazer al-Zaidi
Thanks for your tips. I'm a beginner, but I'm catching up fast —Preceding unsigned comment added by AndriLimma (talk • contribs) 15:06, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for maintaining this article. It plays a part in his well-being. --Adoniscik(t, c) 16:33, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Your comment
The note is shown in the video I linked. From your post, I don't think you've watched it. Watch it, then post to my discussion page again. Badagnani (talk) 08:01, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

The note is shown at the end. The video is fine but will probably become unavailable, and the transcript is of the audio from the video. Badagnani (talk) 08:04, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I've never heard of ABC News making an unreliable comment, except for those of John Stossel. The note is shown in the video, by a news organization generally regarded as reputable. Badagnani (talk) 08:24, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't mind mentioning the source in the sentence, if you believe it's suspect. Badagnani (talk) 09:26, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

We're not investigators here; ABC News has already done their work and we can simply quote it unless it is extremely suspect (I don't feel it is extremely suspect). Badagnani (talk) 09:30, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Your skepticism seems fair. The cameraman was perhaps not shown or named due to discretion on the part of the U.S. reporter vis-a-vis a fellow journo (for fear of the cameraman's safety if named), who heard the shoe-thrower being beaten. Badagnani (talk) 09:34, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

That is an interesting point, which I hadn't considered. Badagnani (talk) 09:47, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Google-hosted AP stories
I requested clarification from you here. Mike R (talk) 15:47, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * P.S., is the "Do not use links to Google-hosted AP stories" warning, which is in the HTML comment at the top of Muntadhar al Zaidi, boilerplate text from somewhere? Mike R (talk) 15:50, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

fastabbas
just wanted to support you in ur arguement with fastabbas, this name actually refers to one of the shiite scholar Imam Abas and he is described as fast in responding to whom ask a prayer from him from shiites view, so probably ur right this guy got an agenda not just to help in expanding this encyclopedia. --Glasszone33 (talk) 21:23, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Torture
It would be alright to say he is injured, he was beaten, or there are claims that he has been tortured. I haven't seen a reliable source which specifically confirms torture though. So any wording that is sourced is fine.--70.224.16.81 (talk) 03:46, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

re: Wikipedia:WikiProject Figure Skating redesign
Thanks, but I stole it from WikiProject Olympics. ;) Kolindigo (talk) 12:18, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Re: Plate lunch
Sorry, no, I haven't been on the English project in a bit. I am working on the French Wikipedia right now, helping with template maintenance and stuff. I'll try to take a look at it soon. – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 10:34, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, probably for now. Everything's just so hectic right now... I've fallen in love with the French language... – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 10:40, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh! (hello!) I get it. Yeah, maybe for now... – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 10:52, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

List of Hawaii beaches
Viriditas, thanks for asking me to collaborate with you. I'll do what I can. I would be more interested in creating articles for each of the beaches. I currently spent time in Kekaha Kai State Park and could get started when I have time. I have plenty of nice shots... I'll see what I can can do to contribute to the list. I have found that Let's Go Hawaii is a good resource. Have any suggestions? -- Travis Thurston  +  04:25, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Travis. I look forward to working with you.  As for suggestions, if you do create stubs, remember to work on expansion; Small stubs with little content will either end up merged and redirected or deleted, so it's unnecessary to create them if they aren't going to be expanded within a short period of time.  As for resources like Let's Go Hawaii, I generally go with published sources and avoid websites as much as possible unless they are online versions of RS, such as magazines, newspapers, or scholarly journals.  However, my own personal standards have always been stricter than those used by GA and FA-class articles, so I encourage you to use what works for you. Viriditas (talk) 06:55, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, thanks for the suggestions. I will stub out a few notable beaches along the way in the next week or two and then add to them in the new year to bring them out of stub status. As for resources, I will attempt to provide references that comply with wp:rs. If you see any that belong in a group instead of standalone articles, like Makena State Park, let me know. Mele Kalikimaka! -- Travis Thurston  +  05:15, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!
Happy Holidays to you too! My Christmas template is actually not working, so I can't wish anybody a happy holiday! :( obento  musubi  07:11, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh. It appears fine for me! I'm working on making it better obento  musubi  07:14, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I developed it for the French Wikipedia. Things are really coming along. obento  musubi  07:18, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Wikiquette alert
To help resolve what seems to be an escalated issue I've asked for others input here. -- Banj e b oi  11:29, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Muntadhar al-Zaidi
Nice work on this article! -- David  Shankbone  21:42, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the compliment, David, but I had very little to do with the overall article. I would like to get more involved with improving it, but I would appreciate the input and help of other editors like yourself.  The composition needs serious work in many places, and the overuse of personal pronouns and quotes requires copy editing.  Viriditas (talk) 10:17, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Planetary engineering
geoeng is a subset of planet eng. If you want these interwikis, a proper solution would be to create redirects in the corresponding languages. Otherwise there is a high probability that interwiki bots will screw things up. Happens all the time. BTW, since it seems you monitor these subjects, please voice your opinion in Articles for deletion/Hydrological geoengineering. `'Míkka>t 02:38, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought it was evident: there is no such term "hydrological geoengineering" in common circulation. While each section in its own is good and sound (I even made a suggestion how to presergve them), putting them together to create a new kind of engineering is not a job for wikipedia. `'Míkka>t 02:46, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * His conclusions are that each of the project can be classified as "Hydrological geoengineering" (by whom? even why it is geoengieering at all). It is not a "descriptive language": it is a quite specific term coined in an analogy with "hydrological engineering"/"hydro engineering" (btw, an aritce is missing). geoengineering itself is a brand new topic, not exactly delineated yet. `'Míkka>t 02:59, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * P.S. His definition of "geoengineering" in article hydrological geoengineering is also unreferenced, but I am not going to nitpick here. And the article geoengineering sucks as well. I don'd dispute that the term "geoengineering" exists. `'Míkka>t 03:03, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I see your point about poorly chosen titles. However the issue is not the title: the issue is that the person collects a series of projects and puts them into a common article, according to his logic, but without references to this logic, in other words, he arbitrarily groups some projects. Wikipedia is not for arbitrary collections of variuos information. For example, I highly doubt that northern river reversal is geoengineering at all: while the project is ambitious indeed, it hardly jumps into planetary scale (at least there is no references proving otherwise). `'Míkka>t 03:15, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Colleague, you missed my most recent point: who says that these projects are geoengineering? Not to say that it is way beyond list. I see it as an attempt to define the subject, namely "hydrological geoengineering".  `'Míkka>t 03:27, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * . I am sorry we are in disagreement, but I am kind of bureaucratic mindset, and I strongly believe that if an article is called trichodontic anochrism, then (1) it must define the term (2) using solid references, and only then (3) list anochrisms which are trichodontinc (4) according to published opinons of experts in ochrology. `'Míkka>t 04:35, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * We have a grave disagrement about fundamentals. You say "Just because you can't find the title "hydrological geoengineering" anywhere, doesn't mean a thing." In the contrary, I say in google you can find the weirdest word collocations. But you cannot find, H,G,E. It rings the bell to me: "no such thing". And author's classification of some projects as such is his novel invention. Please keep in mind that a good way to classify things may bring a good deal of glory and money to you: it is not trivial as it may seem. Further, you say " definition an article about geoengineering projects related to". I say again and again: who says that these are geoengineerin. Who says the are from the domain of hydrology? Drinking beer may laso be listed in hydrology: it is 98% water. per WP:NOT a good deal of lists and categories have been deleted because the underlying classifications are not essential. List of songs about death (Articles for deletion/List of songs about weather) is, as you say, "by definition" an article about songs about death. But the thing is nobody published anything in reliable sources about songs about death. (weridly enough, Car crash songs were covered somewhere, hence the article was kept.) The same is H.G.E: nobody published nothing about H.G.E. `'Míkka>t 10:57, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You basically refuse to consider my counter-arguments in essence and your last resort is name calling, which is not good, colleague. If you want a decent argument, please state clearly why you think it was "straw man". Further, the topic, H.G.E did not recieve significant coverage. The mentioned projects did. The author arbitrarily collected a bunch of projects which he decided to include into the domain of H.G.E., which is questionable. `'Míkka>t 11:11, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I know very well that the title and the subject are not the same. I presented arguments against both: title: there is no such term and the subect: not well defined and classified by the auhor without due basis, upon his opinion. And I am not a blunt deletionist either: I offered a reasonable way to salvage the contribution. `'Míkka>t 11:14, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Colleague, as I see, you started detracting from purely logical discussion more and more, first by slapping labels (and ignoring my question why), now you are misrepresenting my argument. Therefore this is my last reply on this issue: You wrote "a list of topics that you don't like". I presented a number of arguments why I think taht neither title nor topic are appropriate for wikipedia. And all what impressed in your perception is that "I don't like" something. I don't think that this is a valid rebuttal of my argments. Sorry, I will not go any further in this direction. It is hardly a matter of life and death to waste our time. Let us write a couple new articles instead. Happy New Year! `'Míkka>t 23:28, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

French WikiProject Hawaii
I recently created a French WikiProject Hawaii (called "Projet Hawaï"). I thought you'd be interested in learning this. I'm working on tagging all the pages at the French Wikipedia related to Hawaii. Cheers! obento musubi  21:37, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, 1) I'm not the best to ask for English > French translations, although I can ask a few people in French for help. One administrator already signed up for the project! 2) I'll look at it right now, or soon maybe. I don't know. 3) There's a Spanish WikiProyecto Hawái, which I'll interwiki soon. I have nothing to do with that one (notice the blandness, no offense, of the page). obento  musubi  10:18, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * By the way, this may seem really random, but if you set the line spacing at 1.75em, everything looks really nice and un-cluttered. obento  musubi  10:21, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Alright, I'll just do a re-vamping of the whole page. How does that sound? It'll look much nicer. Probably somewhat like how the French one is, but different. Idk, I'll start at WikiProject Hawaii/Sandbox. Cheers, obento  musubi  20:22, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Damian
The article needs in-line citations. My library is mostly general Hawaii history and I cannot offer much in the way of specifics for Fr. Damian. Any help would be good. This is an on going push in the direction GA status, so no rush. Happy New Year. -- Secisek (talk) 20:42, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Happy New Year!
I'm going to soil your nice clean talk page, just to be the first to post something on it in 2009, even though technically I (and you) am still lingering over here in "last year". Btw, I have my eye out for a public domain pic for Alan Watts, perhaps you're aware of something good available. Oh yeah, and I love the new quote. : ) -- M P er el  05:56, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I think we should contact his son, Mark Watts, and ask him if he would be willing to release a photograph of his father for use on Wikipedia, licensed appropriately.  Viriditas (talk) 10:48, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * What a great idea. I will try to contact him. -- M P er el  06:45, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Stats
Just a quickie: I know there are stats on the growth of Wikipedia in terms of new pages. I am wondering if there are any figures on the growth of Wiki in terms of bytes, as this would more accurately show the growth of Wiki because it would include the expansion of existing articles as well.--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:32, 4 January 2009 (UTC)--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:47, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean, this? Viriditas (talk) 10:28, 4 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Wow! Thanks.--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:32, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Doesn't seem current for en, though. Hmmm...I bet you can find something if you look through WP:STATS. Viriditas (talk) 10:36, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Leprosy
I have to take a closer look, but I am surprised to see Paul Wilson Brand is not mentioned in the leprosy article. -- M P er el 00:45, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Should I add him to the Leprosy section? Viriditas (talk) 01:08, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh please do. You're FABulous. -- M P er el  09:17, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Btw, I notice the career section of the Paul Brand article a little too closely resembles this copyrighted obituary here, which predates the Wikipedia article. I plan to try to get around to remedying that sometime soon, but I invite you to work your magic there if you're interested : )  -- M P er el  09:51, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Good catch. I'll try and help asap. Viriditas (talk) 00:50, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Melon fly
You included the melon fly in the environment section you helped out with. Just to let you know, I created a page on the nasty little bug. If you have any local info that would make the article more interesting, I would be delighted.--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 05:25, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Anna. When I have some free time I will definitely do some research on the local literature.  I also haven't forgotten about the chart. :) Viriditas (talk) 11:05, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Don't pull a muscle. If and when you have time.--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:38, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Religious vegetarianism
Hi - that was just a drive-by editing regarding something I found odd. If it was for religious reasons, then it should explain this in the article section where it is used, not only in another article. Maybe you could change it to make that clear as you see fit? Cheers and happy editing. Ingolfson (talk) 11:52, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Environment of Hawaii
The mergeto box says Talk:???? Do I have to make a talk ref to each individual article talk page? I am guessing yes, but I thought I would check with you first. Thanks. Oh, and I am watching your talk page (Columbo-style), so I will notice your reply, so if you edit anything on List of paraphilias, I'll know.--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:44, 10 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I have waited a few days with no objections or suggestions or feedback. How much time is reasonable before creating the page? Thanks.--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:49, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It's purely a judgment call based on several factors: 1) Controversy - is the page controversial? If not, then consider 2) Disputes - are there any outstanding disputes?  If not, then consider 3) Notice - have you added notifications to the correct pages?  If so, then consider being bold and making the changes. Viriditas (talk) 11:54, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * A pillar of logic, as usual. Thank you kindly.--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:58, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay. I did it. A few concerns: Should I have left a bit behind on the main Hawaii page? I moved all the text from the other articles to the new Environment of Hawaii section, and left a redirect behind. Will people get mad at me? Should I leave those articles with the redirect indefinitely, or wait until Google picks them up, then place a speedy delete notice on them? The Environment of Hawaii section leads nowhere. What should I do about that? Finally, if you have any other comments or suggestions, they would be very welcome. Thanks again, and sorry for the bombardment of questions. I'm all ears (or at least that's what my plastic surgeon used to tell me).
 * The redirects are fine for now. If anyone gets mad at you, just blame it on me, and tell them to contact me on my talk page.  As for the text on Hawaii, take a look at WP:SS. That explains what to leave behind.  Of course, there is no rush, but I think the stuff you moved over can probably stay in some form.  Don't worry so much! :) Viriditas (talk) 14:55, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I see. I will read WP:SS (I guess it's something to do with Nazis, I will check it out.) You left a Natural history of Hawaii link under Flora. The link is red. Perhaps you meant the 'category' under List_of_Hawaii-related_topics which goes to environmental stuff, which goes to stuff which loops back to the new article. I don't know how to handle that. Also, should I make Environment of Hawai'i page with redirect (I am guessing, no.) The comma thing confuses me - sometimes present, then absent. Anyhoo, thanks for working on the page. I am not sure what to put back under Hawaii main page as a summary, but I will think about it. I guess Hawaii main article just got a little smaller. Cheers!--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 15:23, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I meant Natural history of Hawaii; it's a red link because the article hasn't been created yet. The problem is that different countries/regions use varied naming conventions.  Sometimes they appear as natural history of x, other times as flora and fauna of y, and still other times as ecology of z.  Also, what do you mean by the term "environment"?  Think about the scope of the article you are writing and try to sketch out an outline on the talk page, if it helps.  Talk to you later.  Viriditas (talk) 15:29, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Exercise and weather
http://books.google.ca/books?id=Oy95lDRWJPUC&pg=PA175&lpg=PA175&dq=changing+trends+in+physical+exertion&source=web&ots=tFdQI3t4GP&sig=ohMdqbJSgo22B8vun68CD7Wh1sM&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPA179,M1

Here is a book that addresses some of the question you previously asked. -- Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:09, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll take a look. Viriditas (talk) 01:08, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

re Thomas D. Brock
Yes, I did nominate this for a speedy delete on the grounds of no assertion of notability. So he's a professor, so what? Everybody is something. Did he do anything notable? Herostratus (talk) 16:55, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, did he DO anything notable? (shaking my head)  Herostratus, if you had done even minimal investigation yourself before rushing in to speedy delete, you would have realized he is more than just a professor. Just for starters, his discovery of the first archaebacteria, Thermus aquaticus, an ancient life form thought to even constitute a separate kingdom of life, is one of the fundamental milestones of microbiology.  His work spawned the branch of microbiology concerned with bacteria that live in extreme environments, as well as launched a multi-billion dollar biotechnology industry. He's been on the cover of Science and featured in the New York Times. He's made quite a significant contribution that even a simple google search would have revealed to you.  -- M P er el  20:37, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, for goodness' sake, the article needs to say this. When I nominated the article for speedy deletion, it consisted only of the the following text:
 * Thomas D. Brock (sometimes known as Tom Brock) is the E.B. Fred Professor of Natural Sciences Emeritus at the University of Wisconsin-Madison (Who's Who in America).

Thus the article itself did not make any claim of notability, it just listed his job. It's not my call to google him up and describe his accomplishments. At any rate, it certainly does appear the he deserves an article. I have restored the article, but you -- or someone -- needs to flesh it out, else someone else will delete it again. Thanks for defending the article, cheers, Herostratus (talk) 02:24, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for catching this originally unwarranted deletion. though a while back, I shall be checking other speedies by the original deleting admin. I had originally asked for the mop to check such things, and I will. DGG (talk) 23:05, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Possibility of Wikipedia Loves Art at the East Hawaii Cultural Center
I'd like to invite you to possibly become our Wikimedia contact for the Wikipedia Loves Art project at the East Hawaii Cultural Center. We're in talks with them now, and it's not certain yet, but it would be great for them to know they have a local person to work with, which could really increase the likelihood of this going forward. Please e-mail me soon, because this is starting in February. Thanks!--Pharos (talk) 03:35, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I'm honored, but I think that Makana Risser Chai (User:Makana Chai) is far more suited for the position, as she is married to Hawaii artist Mark Chai, and both of them have a lifelong commitment to the arts in Hawaii and are notable professionals in their field(s). Please leave her a message on her talk page or contact her by e-mail.  Of course, I would be willing to help her out in some capacity if the need arises. Viriditas (talk) 05:42, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the thoughtful suggestion. I talked to Makana, and unfortunately she will be not be available for this time.  So, it would great if you could e-mail me and possibly we can also find other collaborators in your area.  BTW, we're now in discussions with the Honolulu Academy of Arts as well.  Thanks.--Pharos (talk) 03:28, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You are welcome to use the WikiProject Hawaii circulation list to send out any requests for participation. Or, I can include a request in the next newsletter which I plan on releasing in a few days or so.  If you only want to contact members who live in Hawaii, compare the above circulation list to this participant list, which for the most part, lists members by location. Viriditas (talk) 12:49, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Replied by e-mail. Thanks!--Pharos (talk) 13:55, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi, V, snooping on your page. I'm guessing this was scrapped for East Hawaii (I'm asking because I live in Hilo, though I'm not a photographer). I do have a photobug friend who I think would be interested; she divides her time between Hilo and O'ahu. I'll e-mail her and also post to Pharos. Softlavender (talk) 02:41, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Great! :) (I'm leaving you another message on your talk page...) Viriditas (talk) 02:48, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Mountain apple
Depending on where you are, it is S. jambos or S. samarangense which are called thus. "Malacca apple" is quite unequivocal as well as a literal translation of the scientific name. Thus, "Mountain apple" needs to redirect to genus as per WP:PRECISION. Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 12:43, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No, usage determines the target. The most common usage in English refers to Syzygium malaccense.  If you can show otherwise, then the procedure is to create a new disambiguation for the term itself, not a general redirect.   Remember, our first priority is to the reader, that is, helping non-editors find the correct article.  Redirecting the most common term to a page listing ~70 unrelated species is not a solution, and I don't understand why you did it. Viriditas (talk) 12:51, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Because these three species are the most commonly grown Syzygium, and in a nutshell, whereever one single species is grown, the disputed terms refer to this species, and this species alone. For example on the Hawaiian Islands "mountain apple" decidedly not refers to S. malaccense! Together, alternate uses of "mountain apple" are as frequent als the "most common" use, making it not really "most common". "Malay apple" is less of a problem, but there are places where it does mean S. jambos and not S. malaccense (basically whereever S. jambos is grown it is liable to do this, especially if S. samarangense or some other species is grown there also).
 * With your revert, users are often directed to the wrong article about as often (say Google) as they would end up at the correct article. So how would this not contradict "helping non-editors find the correct article"?
 * I am reworking the page and it will then clearly point out this problem, allowing the user to decide between the three species. This is probably better than making three- or two-item dab pages. Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 13:04, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * If you cannot abide by my wishes to keep this discussion in one place, then I will ask you to confine it to the talk page. Please stop edit warring.  Your statements are not correct.  In Hawaii, and in English in general, Mountain and Malay apple primarily refer to S. malaccense.  It sounds like you are engaging in original research.  Users are most assuredly not redirecting to the wrong article with this redirect, they are directed to the most common usage.  With your changes, however, they are directed to a list of 70 unrelated species.  That is not "precision" by any stretch of the imagination.  Is there a reason you are unable to demonstrate alternate uses of the term?  If you can, then the proper course of action is to create a disambiguation page listing those usages; the solution is not to redirect the reader to a list of 70 unrelated articles. Viriditas (talk) 13:12, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Infobox
That´s exactly why I consider it to be so important. I´m one of those people who simply look at the infobox and draw conclusions from that. I don´t focus as much on the article itself as the infobox and smaller boxes. That's why I believe aesthetically pleasing infoboxes are important, and are not useless. obento musubi  02:10, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Feedback, please
Greetings Viriditas - Have just left a note at Talk:Van Gelder Studio and was thinking that as an early contributor to that page/article, you might like to give us a piece of your mind :) Cheers! --Technopat (talk) 18:00, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for feedback - and sorry 'bout having forgotten to link the above - I do have this irritating tendency to hit the intro key before clicking "show preview". --Technopat (talk) 01:24, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem, I knew where to find it. I'm looking forward to your edits. Viriditas (talk) 01:34, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Thomas D. Brock
Can we do a DYK on this article? -- M P er el 01:11, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course, but I think the DYK should focus on his work in Yellowstone and the fruits of that work (PCR, biotech, etc.) but we haven't yet expanded that section (except for mentioning it in the lead). How much time do we have left? Viriditas (talk) 01:13, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, if I'm reading this right, we have until 14:05 18 Jan to file a DYK, which gives us plenty of time, although I think we can do it well before that deadline. I would like to see the DYK include the following:
 * An image, either of Brock, the Yellowstone hot springs where he did his research, the bacterium Thermus aquaticus, or Taq polymerase. I think an image of Thermus aquaticus fits best here.
 * Items linked in the hook: Thomas D. Brock, Yellowstone, Thermus aquaticus, Taq Pol, PCR, and biotechnology. Other links are also possible.  That's just a start.
 * If it interests you, feel free to play around with several different DYK's on the talk page. Viriditas (talk) 01:33, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good. I'm taking a break for at least a few hours. It's all just bones right now. We could focus on the new section that would apply to the DYK and go back to the other areas later, eventually get the whole article up to GA...then FA. There's a lot to work with here. -- M P er el 01:46, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * ... that Thermus aquaticus, an extremophile living at greater than 70 °C, was discovered by Thomas D. Brock in hot springs at Yellowstone, and is the source of the enzyme Taq DNA polymerase used in PCR? Viriditas (talk) 13:30, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

I like that, let's go with it -- M P er el 01:04, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * We need to make the sources explicit in the article first. I believe they are, but we need to check again. If you can help briefly expand the topics covered in the DYK in the body of the article, that would be ideal. Viriditas (talk) 01:06, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I will no longer be participating on DYK in any form, so I leave this up to you. Viriditas (talk) 04:21, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Never say never : ) -- M P er el  12:39, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Bad Vandalism
There is a particularly nasty vandal loose on Wiki. What should I do? User:Rockyobody--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:10, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * First thing to do is to take a deep breath. :) Next, restrict yourself to using the word "vandal" and "vandalism" to edits that only meet WP:VANDAL.  I don't know if Rockyobody is a vandal; he's been here since 26 July 2008, and that's a good sign that he's not.  The user has made 1856 edits, 86.83% of which were made to main space.  If he was a vandal, he would never have racked that many edits since July of 2008, he would simply have been blocked.  He does seem focused on Michael S. Steele, so you may want to look at his edit history there.  Another thing.  Looking at his contribution history, he seems to be have been here far longer than his account, which means he could be a user returning under another name, possibly one that was blocked.  This is all speculation of course, but you want to take things slow.  It's best to contact an administrator when you have real concerns backed up by diffs.  And always remember Hanlon's razor.  What I recommend doing is posting a nice message on the user's talk page, explaining what you see as the problem, and if possible, a solution.  Remember to assume good faith, as we don't know what's really going on here. Good luck. Viriditas (talk) 03:48, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay. I didn't assume good faith. In his contrib history, old edits seem fine. I kind of went back and undid some of his edits. I think I only made things worse. Perhaps somebody is using his ID because he has been around so long, and then suddenly he changed Rod Blagojevich photo caption to "Mug shot". Maybe somebody got a hold of his keyboard while he was in the can. I just thought there was a mad man on the loose. I think I will just go out for coffee before people start screaming at my talk page.--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 04:03, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Everyone makes mistakes. Chalk it up to a learning experience and get a good night's rest. :) Viriditas (talk) 12:13, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Hello! there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath and respond there as soon as possible.

DYK
Actually, to the best of my knowledge, (pictured) usually is counted. In any case, I was not trying to block your DYK, but merely to help get it passed (that's the reason I suggested an ALT... maybe it wasn't a good ALT, but the point is, I was trying to be constructive). Anyway, the 200-character limit is really just an overall ceiling, and shorter hooks are encouraged; I've seen people get hooks delayed even when they're 190 or so, with people saying the hook still is a bit too long even though it's under 200.

As per your request, I will stay away from this nomination from now on; I just wanted to let you know my reasons for the comment that I left. Politizer talk / contribs 23:14, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Did you know?
... that you are a noble prince, and that you didn't have to restore that. I only speak candidly like that to people I care about who have the fortitude to handle what I really have to say and apply it positively. Is it any wonder why my friends are few? : ) -- M P er el 06:40, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 261 characters. Please rewrite it. :) Viriditas (talk) 07:46, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

ok, how about this 198 character alternate:
 * ALT1: ... that Viriditas, the holy greening power and driving force in the cosmos, tolerates high temperatures, generating a chain reaction exponentially amplifying Wikipedia articles for DYK submission? -- M P er el 09:54, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

List of jungle and drum'n'bass artists merge proposal
Your proposal has not drawn any opposes. Would you like implement? Cheers. Dloh cierekim  14:28, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It was just a proposal. I don't really have the time to add that many categories.  You are welcome to remove the proposal or implement it yourself.  I apologize for any inconvenience. Viriditas (talk) 00:40, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem. If get to it first, I'll have a go. Cheers,   Dloh  cierekim  00:43, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Hawai'i = Ground Zero?
With that name and living in Hawai'i, I woul like you to know these documentaries:

1. The World according to Monsanto from Google Video

2. Islands at Risk: Genetic Engineering in Hawai'i from You Tube (Quote: Hawaii is considered "Ground Zero" for the open field testing of genetically modified organisms.)

Is this subject part of the environmental consciousness in Hawai'i? Thank you, Sei--217.232.108.114 (talk) 23:55, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's an issue, but it's highly complex and not black and white. In other words, there are risks and benefits. Thanks for the links.  I'm surprised Anna Frodesiak hasn't addressed this. Perhaps I'll notify her. Viriditas (talk) 00:43, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Contras
Hello,

I am not trying to take a side in the (obviously) ongoing debate in this article over whether Contras were or were not worse than the Sandanistas. However, as I explained on the discussion page, the material I deleted is irrelevent to the article. There is no reason to have material detailing the alleged atrocities of the Sandanistas on the Contras page. I left in all the material that called into question the credibility of the Contras' critics, but I don't think that an encyclopedia ought to engage in a justification of any group's actions based on what another group is accused of having done. I hope you'll agree and allow my change to stand, as I am not prepared to engage in a marathon of back and forth editing. Hopefully, bolstering the integrity of the site will be sufficient reason to accept this edit.

Thanks,

Jmedlong (talk) 02:56, 29 January 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmedlong (talk • contribs) 03:34, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Terraforming
Hi. I upgraded the video game section of GOOD LORD that "Earthrise" quote on your user page is amazing!

...

Sorry. I kicked the section Terraforming_in_popular_culture into high gear, tablefying it, adding data and new descriptions, separating game mechanics from backstories and adding some amount of discrimination (as in delete, indiscriminate list). I'm not a native English speaker, so it'd be marvellous if you could give your perspective on how it is and what it needs (aside from proper references, but at least this stuff is verifiable...).

If you rather wouldn't, KITTENS! --Kiz o r  11:07, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That looks damn good. Nice job!  I'll take a closer look when I have a chance. Viriditas (talk) 21:21, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Hawaii NRHPs
Hi, I noticed you've created and developed a bunch of Hawaii articles on NRHP-listed sites, for example Kalepolepo Fishpond. You may be interested to check out List of RHPs in HI, quite a bit more developed now, although still under construction. Also, though, I wanted to tell you about the NRHP infobox generator, which is a neat service that Elkman provides, based on his download of National Park Service's NRIS database. Perhaps you learned about it recently, but it appears you didn't know of it back in July when you edited that article, as the infobox was hand-made. You just go to http://www2.elkman.net/nrhp/infobox.php, enter the name of a site, and it generates a filled-out infobox, usually with geo coordinates and more info, for you to cut and paste into a wikipedia article. You can further add in other info from other sources, but it provides a great start. I just used it to update the Kalepolepo Fishpond article, justifying dropping a "coordinates needed" tag from that article, too. By the way, there is now a Google map linked to the List of RHPs in HI list-article: click on "Map of all coordinates" to go to google and zoom in on locations of almost all of the NRHP sites. Sometimes there are errors in the NRIS coordinates; it would be great if you could identify any such errors so that they can be fixed. Anyhow, hope you enjoy use of the NRHP infobox generator if you hadn't known of it yet. Cheers, doncram (talk) 23:08, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the update. Any idea why the restricted archaeological sites are redlinked?  I can't see any way to create articles without information, so they should probably be de-linked.  I haven't revisited this issue for about a year, but last time I did, I noticed a lot of discrepancies regarding the naming conventions used by the NRHP and the actual names.  I see that some of the articles refer to this as alternate or older names, but this is somewhat ambiguous.  In other words, in some instances, the NRHP designation may not be the best name for the actual article (or take precedent over the common name), while it is certainly appropriate for the infobox by itself.  This can get pretty confusing, but I can recall at least several instances where this is a problem.  Anyway, if you would like me to help out, I would be glad to help complete all the entries for Maui, or at least fact-check them asap.  I see that you've broken the tables up by county, but you should also add a column for island, as some counties include more than one island, or if you can think of a better way to inform the reader as to what island each site belongs to, that would suffice.  There are several more issues I would like to discuss with you, so keep an eye on this page, or we could move this discussion to the list talk page as well.  Thanks! Viriditas (talk) 09:48, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Do let's continue at Talk:National Register of Historic Places listings in Hawaii. Nyttend and some others may have suggestions too. doncram (talk) 17:43, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Great. I'll comment there and follow the discussion. Viriditas (talk) 00:38, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Kamehameha V and Abigail Mahehea
Did you notice the recent edits to these articles? This was the kind of information I was looking for but I never could find it. I try to reference it but I found nothing that state that Abigail's illegitmate child had descendants. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 03:28, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Can you provide me with diffs? Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 09:18, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, to answer my own question, I think you mean Kamehameha V and Abigail Maheha. Viriditas (talk) 09:19, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Why was the Patterson reference (Patterson, Rosemary I., Ph.D. Kula Keiki Ali'i . Booksurge Llc, 2006. ISBN 1419648756) removed and unsourced information added? Viriditas (talk) 09:22, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I got no idea. It wasn't my edit. I just notice that there was some true to the edits but there was no reference. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:01, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The guy is at it again . --KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:10, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * What do you recommend, revert on sight? Is it vandalism?  What kind of action needs to be taken? Viriditas (talk) 04:15, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I personally don't know. I was wondering if someone can place a source on that information. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 07:31, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Oh yeah! I have a question. What happen to the newsletters? The last one was December. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 07:34, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, like you and several other members, I have been pretty busy and I haven't been on Wikipedia all that much. MPerel is helping update the watchlist, and I hope to have some time after that to help contribute to the newsletter.  You are always welcome to help as well. Viriditas (talk) 09:42, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia Loves Art in Honolulu Feb 14, 15 and 27
Rad all about it!--Pharos (talk) 20:10, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Database
No complaints about the FALLS OF CLYDE; I disagree, but it's definitely not a big deal :-) My question is about the databases: what's a legacy database?  Do you simply mean it's an old database?  I've never heard the term before.  Nyttend (talk) 14:49, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
 * That's right. See legacy system.  And thanks for putting up with me.  I can be a pain in the a** sometimes. :) Viriditas (talk) 09:31, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Nice, easy-to-understand article; I was simply confused when I found that legacy database was a redlink. Thanks!  Nyttend (talk) 14:48, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Watchlist
I finally got a chance to update the watchlist. However, I made a temp version first in my user space which produces this recent changes list. There are an additional 144 articles (half of which are talk pages, so 72 articles really). Before I update the real thing, please compare it with the old (current) recent changes here. I want to make sure you are ok with simply sorting the watchlist file the way it came out of AWB before I update WikiProject Hawaii/Hawaii recent changes with User:MPerel/WikiProject Hawaii/Hawaii recent changes. The output is functionally the same, I don't see any reason to spend time manually trying to format it and add counts the way the old watchlist bot used to (automatically) do. It will be easier to maintain this way if you don't mind the simpler format. -- M P er el 13:41, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Also I just noticed several red-linked categories. I can delete those, unless there's a reason you want them watched.  Let me know. -- M P er el  13:58, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Here are the red-linked categories/articles which I went ahead and removed from my version. Some of them were just renames. -- M P er el  14:19, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Looks fine to me. I'll drop you a note on your talk page. Thanks for your time. Viriditas (talk) 22:57, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * If you give me a list of the extra two dozen you're going to tag, I'll just merge it in with the existing list through AWB. It'll be pretty quick for me to do. -- M P er el  00:19, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Or actually, just tell me after you're done tagging and I'll re-update. It won't take me long. -- M P er el  00:26, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * If they're newly tagged articles, I can just rerun the little process I did through AWB and it will pick up the new articles. Just tell me when you're ready.  Really, you don't need to add extra work by creating a sub-page. : ) -- M P er el  11:03, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, go ahead do the subpage then : D -- M P er el 19:52, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Liliuokalani/temp
Liliuokalani/temp, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Miscellany for deletion/Liliuokalani/temp and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ). You are free to edit the content of Liliuokalani/temp during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 01:00, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Request to Collaborate
Hey, long time no see. Seeing as the bill just got passed recently, I would like to collaborate with you on creating the page Hawaii Bill 444 and expanding the page Recognition of same-sex unions in Hawaii. In some special edition future newsletter, we can discuss the status of LGBT rights in Hawaii. How does that sound? Hope to hear from you soon, obento  musubi  01:57, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds great. If you start working on it in your user space, then, when it's ready, you can simply move it to the article space (main space) with the edit history intact.  As for the newsletter, I'm three months behind, but I see no reason why it can't be in the next one.  Let's get started! :) Viriditas (talk) 09:02, 22 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I started the page. It's located at House Bill 444. Cheers! obento  musubi  18:37, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Nice work! Do you need help submitting a DYK or do you still remember how to do it? :) Viriditas (talk) 23:08, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it.
Sooooo strange. I just left a message for User:JoJan and there is your name, over some strange debate over red links and such. I was over there about some gastropod infraclass, and I bump into you. Weird. Reminds me of this game where you pull two articles out of a hat and go from A to B in the fewest clicks. It's like 7 degrees of Kevin's bacon, or whatever, which is weird too, because Kevin Bacon always reminds me of bacon. --Anna Frodesiak (talk) 17:19, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Heh. Not so weird.  There's really only a core group of editors here, so it's far more likely than you think.  And please don't hold anything against JoJan.  He's a good person, but I let my panties (manly boxers really, believe me!) get in a twist over his position on red links.  I'm learning to get perspective on these things, but I was evidently having a bad day.  I hope you are doing well. Viriditas (talk) 23:38, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Disputes are natural, and even seem important here at Wikipedia. I think you and JoJan are both excellent people. All the best to you.--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 09:28, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the kind words! :) Viriditas (talk) 09:31, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Dreams and films
Hi, I started the article when I was involved in trying to improve the film noir article. That, my fellow Wiki editor, is a hard page to edit on. You try to fix one comma or period, and your change is reverted with a message like "Revert to consensus version" or "revert to former, better version". One edit that is usually tolerated is adding useful Wikilinks, or, in the case of the Oneiric link, improving the quality of the link. The link used to go to the generic dreams article, so you'd read about REM sleep and stuff, which is not giving you helpful information on the concept of dreams in film theory. So I poked around a bit on the Internet using Google and found a few basic pieces of info on oneiric film theory. Thanks for the compliment. I will see if there is any new research or info, because it was a while ago when I worked on the article : ) OnBeyondZebrax (talk) 22:57, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It really is a great article with a lot of potential. It's a fascinating subject that goes so deep and so wide, I bet you could write about it for years without reaching the bottom of the topic.  It's always good to see editors like yourself pushing the boundaries.  Keep it up! Viriditas (talk) 23:41, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

404
Thanks for reminding me, the Google News article do expire, I forgot. They conveniently appear early when put into Google (duh!), one could also search for other newspapers etc. using the article. I didn't new that webcite page, is it like web archive? Then that's of course fine. Also, thanks for informing me about the DYK. Another option would be writing "that would make Hawaii the first state in the Western United States to allow civil unions". What you wrote me suggested I could just write this version on the DYK page as well, did I get that right? I'm a noob with regard to DYK. Oh, and being mentioned in the nomination, do I get to brag about having a DYK? Haha. Best wishes Hekerui (talk) 13:08, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, Internet Archive and WebCite are both web archiving systems but the difference is that the on-demand feature of WebCite is free, whereas Internet Archive's "Archive-It" service is fee-based. I like your DYK suggestion a lot, however, the reviewers have already moved Obento's wording to the next queue, which means it will appear on the main page any minute now.  If you need help with DYK in the future, let me know.  And yes, you can brag about the DYK.  You'll find out shortly. Viriditas (talk) 22:34, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks again for telling me about webcite. I managed to save a link at last minute - it was up since February 11, I saved it and mere hours later, Goggle had removed the original! :) Hekerui (talk) 23:49, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

hippies template
allright. lets see it. the most psychedelic it is the better--Eduen 01:18, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, visually that would work, but remember, we are text-driven on Wikipedia, so we need to be able to read it; that's of primary importance here. Viriditas (talk) 08:05, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

move of Salter's Duck material to Stephen Salter
Hi Veriditas. Can you take a look at Talk:Wave power. Any suggestions? -- Crowsnest (talk) 10:35, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the message. I'll respond there in a moment. Viriditas (talk) 10:40, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

edit warring

 * Thanks for your message, I was a bit surprised to see your name appear on my page. I happen to remember great reams of user names, including yours, though I am unaware of how you happened to be cruising by my talk. Forgive me posting back here, I see that you prefer responses to be kept together, but one of the janitors is currently waving the blunt end of his mop at me.
 * Edit warring can be a subjective view, I don't know anyone who hasn't made an edit that could be described in this way. However, I firmly believe it is a clear example: the users refuses to participate in solutions, buries any protest, and pursues their 'cause' in new areas of our document. I suppose the best solution is post a message to users who are subjected to arrogant contributions and tendentious reverts, and give them my considered opinion. I do regret the circumstances whereby I piss people off, and I'm always on guard against increasing disruption, so excuse my somewhat detached response. After all, your message ended in a smile.
 * Was there some situation in particular that inspired your post? cygnis insignis 10:59, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I was watching TDogg310's contribs, as he's been doing great work on the Hawaii-related articles, and I saw his edit on your talk page. Viriditas (talk) 11:26, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought the Hawaii connection may have been link, it is a shame the user was too busy to improve the Santalum found there. The redlinks are outside of my scope, but they are obstructing an improvement to a set of articles I intend to improve ... one day :) Kind regards, cygnis insignis 11:54, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I can probably help out with those red links. I have access to a lot of local Hawaiian books.  Let me see what I can do. Viriditas (talk) 12:21, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Cool! I'm sure that it will facilitate the expansion of the genus, which is greatly neglected, they all have significant historical and cultural importance. Your resources wwould be an advantage, the web is swamped with less than reliable ones. BTW, Santalum album is described as being indigenous to that [your?] country, a fact that I found intriguing, I keep meaning to find a source that discusses the distribution from a ethnobotanical perspective. The same goes for those species in my country. Best regards! - cygnis insignis 12:54, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

''Cygnis, no offense, but it seems like you are being oversensitive here. I looked at the diffs and I don't see anything wrong with how Moonriddengirl quoted you. Attribution is best practice. However, I do understand your position; Recently, another editor referred to me in a talk page section where there was only supposed to be a discussion of the topic in a neutral manner and turned it into a discussion of editors instead. But seriously, if she had not named you, I wouldn't have known who to thank for asking such a great question! Viriditas (talk) 09:54, 15 March 2009 (UTC)''
 * A good example. Neither did I, except my name being needlessly lit up. In main space. It is how disputes invariably get started; personalising the issue. Thanks, but I am not the first to ask the question.
 * Please consider how the policy has merit, and avoid guessing what another is feeling, because it reduces disruption. Most of the disputes here are started or fueled by people 'making a name for themselves', our role is best served by encouraging objectivity; discussion of content, not the contributor. After all, wikipedia is not a blog, social networking, or debating site. cygnis insignis 10:55, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * But your name wasn't needlessly lit up. Moonriddengirl was attributing the quote.  Yes, you didn't like that, but there would have been less disruption if you had asked her to remove it first, instead of editing her comments, which were not deviating from the topic (as in my example) but illustrating the problem.  I still think you are overreacting to this situation.  And we don't avoid guessing what another is feeling; it is an essential part of being human. Viriditas (talk) 11:02, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * A response in 7 minutes: some of that time was spent typing, a bit more to skim through my post. I take a bit more time to consider others views, days or weeks even. So it goes. cygnis insignis 11:18, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * What is this, The Tortoise and the Hare? You are a very interesting person, but it seems like you enjoy taking offense at the most mundane minutiae.  Perhaps you would be better off focusing that energy in a more positive and creative manner?  But hey, what do I know?  I'm just words on a screen, to you.  Viriditas (talk) 12:00, 15 March 2009 (UTC)