Wikipedia:Irish wikipedians' notice board/Archive08

Deletion of Category:Elections in the Republic of Ireland
Their is a proposal for deletion of Category:Elections in the Republic of Ireland at Categories for deletion/Log/2005 April 30. Djegan 18:59, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Irish mapping
Moved from Irish Wikipedians' notice board:

Maybe this should just go in the to-do list, but as it's generic I think it is at least worth starting here.

It would be good to be able to give OSI/OSNI grid references, especially for Irish National Monuments. But the are useless without a conversion macro and mapping system. There is some work in progress at |Wiki Map sources, but nothing there for Ireland (north or south). Could some old lag tell me how to create an analogue of {OSGB36}? --Red King 15:34, 11 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Now here is an interesting thing: the UK Ordance Survey includes the Irish Grid (admitedly at a less than brilliant 1:250000 but it is more informative than Multimap)
 * For example, here is Newgrange (O008741 nb thats Oh zero zero eight)
 * --Red King 14:39, 12 May 2005 (UTC)


 * The Map sources project is working nicely for GB (though I say it myself) - but the amount of response to it has been an amazing deafing silence! Delighted to see some interest from Erin. I will try to do the necessary additions to the resource that template:oscoor calls as soon as possible and I will request Egil Kvaleberg to change his bit. In the mean time, I suggest you create direct links to getamap like the one above - I am willing to go round and templatise them later. -- RHaworth 16:05, 2005 May 12 (UTC)


 * Ideally I wanted there to be a trivial template that people could use pro tem. Then, as the Map sources project progressed, it would be easy either to improve the works inside the black box, or at least find the references to it and go back to improve them (as somebody did for the Lat&Lon references).  Would you like to volunteer?  --Red King 16:45, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

New Maps
Moved from Irish Wikipedians' notice board:

It took me long enough but I think I managed to make a county map that looks almost like Zoney's.   -- &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 16:54, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Added Donegal, which I thought went better up and to the left of the image of Ireland, mainly because of its location in the country: -- &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 21:29, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Added Kildare -- &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 14:48, 15 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Nice job! CGorman 15:29, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

New Maps for City/Town infoboxes
Red King and I have been discussing the town infoboxes, that Zoney so diligently created, and we've come to a consensus that they're still slightly confusing and in the present format it will be difficult to locate the smaller counties in the Ireland graphic. See either his or my talk page for the entire conversation. I've created a couple of sample graphics that I will propose herewith in context, and you tell me which one you prefer:

 &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 23:01, 17 May 2005 (UTC)


 * IMO the magnified map is a lot better. J OHN C OLLISON (An Liúdramán) 08:40, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Agree. The hinterland in adjacent counties is always important, especially so with border towns like Stroke City and Newry.
 * We need an inland county example, but this is a big improvement. --Red King 09:11, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Good work, I like the magnified version. As a side comment the image of each county should - in so far as is possible - be of a similar size and shape. Djegan 09:46, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Updated infoboxes
Note: I've only created the new magnified images for Mayo and Sligo thus far, but will be working on more of the rest this weekend.

-- &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 16:01, 20 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Oh, and just a reminder, if there is no town crest, it still has to be noted, like so:

crest_image   = |

-- &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 16:23, 20 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Going off at a tangent, how did you do the floating dot? I ask because I see that the Italian cities use , which if I read it correctly, means producing a completely new map of Italy everytime, rather than locating a dot on a map background, like you've done.  I had in mind to do Alghero but not if it involves that much work!  Looking around the italian towns and cities, I suspect that many others reached the same conclusion.  But don't let me distract you! Finish doing the Irish maps first and, if you haven't collapsed from nervous exhaustion, take a look at Italy. --~

Like I've done here, you mean... I actually used  which produced the template information without the actual template itself. That way if I make any changes to the template, they won't reflect here on this page. I only input the coordinates for each city. And by the way... I like doing these maps... We can see much better where the towns are in relationship to tiny features like loughs and other counties... -- &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 21:07, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

I just looked into the ITDot template... they have to create a different map for each and every city in Italy, which is quite a bit of graphics! In this case it's the -- &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 21:13, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Quite! The approach is not remotely scaleable.  The only sensible way to do it is to have a common background and a floating dot, as you have done.  (Ideally, it would be Italy, zoomed region (Liguria, Tuscany) then city).  Anyway, one for later if you still have the inclination. --Red King 10:35, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

Added Donegal, Roscommon and Leitrim. See gallery at Irish Wikipedians' notice board/map gallery  &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 01:56, 21 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Added Louth, Monaghan, Cavan.  &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 03:57, 21 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Added Cork, Kerry, Clare, Limerick  &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 04:41, 21 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Added Carlow, Galway, Kildare, Kilkenny  &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 05:07, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

On County Mayo's map at Image:Ireland map County Mayo Magnified.png, I've added some formulae to determine point position. I do it myself out of an excel spreadsheet, because I am working on several towns ni County Mayo at once, but if you find using the formulae easier than visual trial and error, go to the image page for the info.  &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 16:23, 21 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Added Longford, Tipperary  &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 16:46, 21 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Added Meath, Offaly, Laois  &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 21:05, 21 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Added Waterford, Westmeath, Wexford and Wicklow. Now all I have left are the four Dublin maps and the six Northern Ireland maps.   &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 21:36, 21 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Added Dublin City, Fingal, South Dublin and Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown  &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 22:22, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure that to go this far is a good idea. If you deviate from the traditional 32 counties for Dublin, then you have to do the new Districts in NI too. Which is certainly arguable, of course. --Red King 00:20, 22 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Okay, I was just following Zoney's lead on this one, but I've created a separate file for Dublin County, that looks like all the rest.  &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 02:50, 22 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Regarding Northern Ireland their is a commission of enquiry into local government at the moment so my personal opinion is not to get to particular about details until an outcome is made known as it could go any way. Djegan 08:54, 22 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Y'know what, though Djegan? What are we going to fill our time with if we don't have to worrry about Northern Ireland?  It's not like there's tons of things to do at Wikipedia (or is there?)  &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 14:57, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

Ireland Wikiportal
I've started the Ireland Wikiportal. Take a look at it and tell me what you think, and then volunteer to keep a part of it updated!

Also, we don't seem to have any "Official" Wikiprojects, even though I know there's things that have been discussed here that need to get done. Like getting the Cities, Towns, Villages, etc in order. Any suggestions?  &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 16:04, 25 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Looks nice, but can you keep it current? --Red King 19:52, 25 May 2005 (UTC)


 * CGorman offered to take over news duty...what part do you want to help out with? :) :) :)  &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 20:00, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Adminship
Hi folks, I've asked for Adminship here. Your support would be appreciated! Cheers Seabhcán 14:54, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Town importance
I know that population is not always a gauge of importance, but I put together a list of the top 100 cities and towns (including suburbs) in the Republic, according to the 2002 census. There's still a few in the top 100 for which we still don't have stubs even. See List of towns in the Republic of Ireland/Largest 100.
 * Thats great! I know you are doing your best and there's no other reliable data available yet - but numbers 10 to 25 will be hugely different when the next census comes out! Ireland is experiencing an unbelieveble growth period - for example Mullingar (my own town!) is currently at over 20,000 according to conservative local council estimates and is forecast to hit 30,000 in less than a decade. Similierly Letterkenny is Ireland's fastest growing town and set to increase its population hugely over the next few years. At the moment 70,000 new homes are being built in Ireland every year! A large amount of these are in commutor belt towns such as Tullamore, Mullingar, Celbridge and Naas, and in regional centers such as Athlone and Ennis. Its very exciting to be frank; to see the country grow so much. There's also the matter of 70,000 new immigrants from Eastern Europe in the past twelve months. (all of this for a nation of 4m is unbelievable). I know it would be virtually impossible to do - but it would be wonderful to add a colume showing the forecasted population of each town in say ten years. Regardless - excellent job. CGorman 14:37, 27 May 2005 (UTC)


 * BTW: As far as I know that 15,936 figure for Athlone is actually only the Westmeath side of the town - I think theres a furture 6,000 in the Roscommon side. CGorman 14:39, 27 May 2005 (UTC)


 * According to the 2002 Census Records, Athlone, in Westmeath has 7,354 residents and Athlone Environs, in both Westmeath and Roscommon, has 8,582 residents.  &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 17:14, 27 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Great - I knew it was split someway between the town counties - thank God its only 15,900 - Mullingar (my beloved town) and Athlone share a long long rivalry. Mullingar has always been the administrative center, where the county council is, the cathedral, the hospital, and any other local government body - however, Athlone has more (visible) history, a castle, an historically larger population, more shops and a third level institute. So as a Mullingar man - I love knowing that we are bigger and better - one little fact I love; Mullingar has the 3rd highest percentage of professionals living in any urban area in Ireland (thats largely due to having a regional hospital). Oh and Athlone was repersented for years in the government by a TD - something Mullingar did'nt have until recently; the Athlone TD lost her seat, and a Mullingar/Castlepollard man took over! I'll respone to the second comment below later - im in a bit of a rush. CGorman 20:36, 27 May 2005 (UTC)


 * CGorman, You make a great proponent for the country... what is the attitude about immigration from America? Ireland certainly sounds like the place to be in the 21st Century  &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 17:05, 27 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I just love my country - i've grown up in an era off unbelievable growth (the Celtic Tiger era) in which Ireland has grown hugely in wealth. During that time Ireland has successfully produced many of the modern cultural icons - from U2, The Corrs and Colin Farrell to Father Ted, Roy Keane and Graham Norton. At the moment Ireland really just has a 'buzz' ambout it - its a great place to live (in fact its the best place in the world to live according to the Economist magazine). As regards US immigrants - no problem, just be aware that our averagehouse price is now over $314,000; and any decent house in the capital will cost a minimum of $565,000! Ireland is the new land of oppertunity - anyone can make it big time if they are prepared to work hard - and if you fail, the state will help you to get back on your feet (unlike in the US system, which has very little government intervention in social, educational and medical areas). CGorman 14:24, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

Conas atá sibh? An Vicipéid Ghaeilge
I already sent this message to a few people before seeing this, so I thought I'ld post it here. The Irish wikipedia is in desperate need of contributors. At the moment there is around 5 active wikipedians(or vicipéideoirí in Irish). If you can, come and help us at, it doesn't matter your standard of Irish, there are people there to correct it for you. We're at 778 articles at the moment and pushing for 1,000 but it's slow work with so few contributors. So come and help us please. Bígí ann! - Dalta 22:13, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Every time I "correct it for you" (correction of placenames to those used by the Caighdeán Oifigiúil, for instance), I get bitched at. Evertype 23:09, 2005 May 27 (UTC)
 * My level of Irish vocabulary is good enough to contribute, but my grammar was eaten by dyspraxia and I've never learnt how to get fada's on a Macintosh or BeOS box... so thats me out --Kiand 23:27, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
 * As regards the fadas, don't you get 'em on the "insert" box, someway down an "edit" page? Between "templates used on this page" and "Your changes will be visible immediately." in fact, now that I think to check.  (If not, maybe you need to tweak preferences somewhat?)  Alai 23:32, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Gah, never actually noticed they're in there... thought that was just for really esoteric stuff. Still doesn't fix the problem that I can't manage tenses in Irish.... --Kiand 23:36, 27 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Fada's are easy-peasy on a Mac, a bhuachaill. In Irish keyboard mode (Mac OS X, at least), just type ALT-e for 'é', ALT-i for 'í', etc, etc. Works for caps, too. In UK localisations, type SHIFT-ALT-a for the same effect. Slán - Pete C &#9997; 23:56, 27 May 2005 (UTC).
 * Didn't say I was on OSX now, did I? :p Yellow Dog Linux, which despite being PPC-centric, still has some trouble with the horribly hybrid bit-of-everything keyboard layout Apple use these days. I wish I could use my AppleDesign ADB still... --Kiand 00:15, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Keymapping is completely screwed on YDL (yeah, I use it too.) If you can get it work with a UK Mac keyboard with the alt charset, do let me know. (Possible Open_source collaboration? :-) ) - Pete C &#9997; 00:20, 28 May 2005 (UTC) Disclaimer: I work at Apple. That's why I'm still up at 1am ... coding! :-/


 * I have no problem copying images and templates to Gaelige Vici...but the extent of my Gaelic is Fáilte and Da Dhuit or Dha Duit or however it's spelled... And since I uploaded the county maps to Commons, you can access them from any Wikimedia site. So someone will have to guide me on the proper word for basic things like town population and elevation  &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 00:50, 28 May 2005 (UTC)


 * This goes both ways, too, you know...there's a smart few little sentences in about Partry, with no corresponding article here: Partry.  There may be several others.  Might someone give a shot at translating them back?  &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 03:11, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Also, I haven't been able to figure out what Gleann an Fháin corresponds to in English, but it's listed as a town on the Gaelige County Mayo page. Anyone?   &#08492; astique &#09660; talk 03:14, 28 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Gleann an Fháin -> Glenanane in English - Pete C &#9997; 13:46, 31 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm on board for doing what I can to help out on ga: -- and improve my Irish while I'm doing it. It'll be easier for me to chat mostly as Béarla (or in "GAA Irish") and my work will need help (and I promise not to bitch at anyone who improves my use of the language!).

Can I suggest that when working on ga: we think in terms of an encylopedia that is written in the Irish language, rather than an Irish encyclopedia? Having said that, the first thing I thought to do was a Peig Sayers page and of course Irish topics should be exceptionally well represented: is never going to have an article fir every stop in the Kyoto subway system or a list of Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan-fiction writers. I'm going to try to work on the beer article, and while I certainly won't remove any of the information about Irish beers and breweries I won't give them any very special treatment. Ben-w 07:26, 28 May 2005 (UTC)


 * If I get a chance I'll pop over and do a few odd bits every now and then - my Irish is crap; but i'll gladly help add cats and links. CGorman 14:16, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

That's the spirit lads! Don't worry about lack of tenses, we'll fix that up for you and you can ask any of the users for help and I'm sure they'll have no problem explaining one or two things to you. Everytype - Do you mean the whole 'Alba' controversy? Nevermind that, contribute and improve as much as you can. Ben-w is right, it's an encyclopedia in Irish, rather than an Irish encyclopedia, but as you will see, we're short on every kind of article, so don't think too much before contributing. Bastique, town population is 'daonra an bhaile' and elevation is 'ardú'. If you could add the mini-flags of countries that'ld be great. See the bottom half of Amhrán Náisúnta to see what I mean- Dalta 17:58, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

Questionable edit of article  (Bishop of Galway)
An anonymous editor has cut background/context material that I wrote some time ago in article Eamon Casey (Bishop of Galway). His view is that the text is not relevant. He is not a vandal: I see he has reverted vandalism elsewhere. I don't feel that it is appropriate that I be judge in my own case, so would welcome another opinion if anyone feels so inclined. --Red King 23:35, 28 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I think it was a good-faith NPOV edit -- the cut material would be useful in the article, but perhaps it should be in a separate section about the public and media reaction to the case. And the fact that they did a Father Ted episode about it. You will address me by my proper title, you little bollix! Ben-w 04:13, 29 May 2005 (UTC)