Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2016 February 5



Template:Village

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 04:35, 24 February 2016 (UTC) given that infobox village is a redirect to infobox settlement, it's not clear why we need yet-another-frontend for infobox settlement. I could see having a 'substitution-only' version for translating articles, but that would not be named 'village' and it would also not use 'blank' parameters for things like population and density. Frietjes (talk) 16:03, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Village
 * I think this template is match for more in village article in indonesia, density and population are need, that is for complete information on village, but this template allow to use other country beside indonesia.

Regars --  Ays (Talk) 14:25, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * infobox settlement already supports villages in Indonesia. for density, use auto and it is automatically computed from population_total and area_total_km2.  the template you created doesn't have this feature, placing the population and density in the wrong place. Frietjes (talk) 17:35, 7 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete as apparently redundant, and lacking features found in IS —PC-XT+ 02:54, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete no reason for a separate template for Indonesia present -- 70.51.200.135 (talk) 04:51, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Okay okay it was good idea, you can remove this template no problem, Thanks for suggestion.

Regars --  Ays (Talk) 23:02, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
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Template:Top video game publishers

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 04:38, 24 February 2016 (UTC) Arbitrary collection of publishers and distributors, based upon revenue. But that's original research, what would be "major" or "mid-sized"? The sources provided aren't reliable. See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Video_games. I've nominated it for deletion. Soetermans. T / C 15:52, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Top video game publishers
 * Keep There has been a lot of discussion about this being based on WP:OR, but I would like to ask anyone who closes this to discount these !votes. It's all based on reliable sources, to at least the degree that most articles are not WP:OR. It's highly referenced from reliable sources. Its based on the fact that I have not listed all publishers and digital distributors of games. Why is that? Because the size would simple be too big: there are thousands of video game publishers, including the fact that many developers also self publish to some degree. It would make no sense to list Tencent (with revenue of 78 billion renminbi) next to a defunct publisher. No navbox exists for video game publishers, and it is not suprising given the level of misunderstanding I have encountered. Also it is not an article (or else I could reference every single entry), and for non-articles it fully complies with WP:NAVBOX. So whoever closes that should bear this in mind when closing.
 * Also I've used sources outside WP:VG/RS, but can they honestly pretend that it contains all reliable sources? It obviously won't contain reliable and reputable market research organizations will it? It beggars belief... --Jules (Mrjulesd) 16:51, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * No Mrjules, you haven't used reliable sources. This is the third time I'm mentioning this, have you checked WP:VG/RS? Is this not coming through to you? Regardless, you shouldn't have to use sources for a navbox rationale, because navboxes are intended for navigation between related articles. While the concept of "video game publisher" is a subject and has its own article, "top video game publishers" is not. It's not clear that you're talking about revenue, but even then there's the fact that it was you personally who made the arbitrary distinction of what constitutes as "major" and "mid-sized", whatever that means. Just because there aren't any navboxes for video game publishers means that there has to be one, you know. --Soetermans. T / C 17:02, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * There's List of video game publishers and Category:Video game publishers. This template is based upon their revenue, but that's not a subject of a Wikipedia article. It completely fails WP:NAVBOX:


 * 1) All articles within a template relate to a single, coherent subject. The subject are video game publishers based upon revenue, which isn't a coherent subject.
 * 2) The subject of the template should be mentioned in every article. As articles about companies, articles about video game publishers probably do mention revenue, it's not what those articles are about.
 * 3) The articles should refer to each other, to a reasonable extent. They don't.
 * 4) There should be a Wikipedia article on the subject of the template. There isn't one. --Soetermans. T / C 17:13, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Changing tack now?

 --Jules (Mrjulesd) 17:19, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * 1) All articles within a template relate to a single, coherent subject. Correct.
 * 2) The subject of the template should be mentioned in every article. Correct.
 * 3) The articles should refer to each other, to a reasonable extent. Correct.
 * 4) There should be a Wikipedia article on the subject of the template. Video game publisher and Digital distribution
 * 5) If not for the navigation template, an editor would be inclined to link many of these articles in the See also sections of the articles. Well maybe not every article, but it would certainly be favorable for Video game publisher and Digital distribution and List of video game publishers.
 * Tack? Video game publisher is not the same as Video game publisher revenue, you do realize that don't you? You claim there are too many publishers, so you've decided to make one based upon revenue. That's arbitrary on your part, and original research. --Soetermans. T / C 17:29, 5 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete - Its too broad of a subject, and too hard to enforce inclusion criteria on something like a template. And while revenue is a concrete criteria, where you draw the line and label it, is original research. In short, neither the neither the industry or the world in general organize them together in this manner, so I don't believe Wikipedia should either.  Sergecross73   msg me  18:19, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. This was discussed at WTVG, as mentioned in the lede. The subject is a broad category best handled as a cat and maybe list, but the items are not interconnected enough to warrant a navbox. It has serious (irreconcilable) scope issues and the criteria for major/mid is original research. For more explanation, see the original thread. czar  20:34, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete but not for the above reasons. OR is a potential worry but it's a Wikipedia template, we're allowed some leeway.  No, the problem is that this template has nowhere to go, unless it's stuck at the bottom of every company on the list, which would be ridiculous and a classic case of template-itis where there's 20 random templates at the bottom of a Wikipedia article.  It's just not a useful template.  Coca-Cola Company does not have a template link to Pepsi-co in the bottom of the article (although, checking, it does have a link to the Dow Jones companies...  a useless template I'd rather see deleted, though.). SnowFire (talk) 20:48, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete per arguments above. ~ Dissident93  (talk) 23:37, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete per WT:VG thread. --The1337gamer (talk) 09:11, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete per arguments at WT:WP/VG. Poorly related items (articles don't link between themselves and are not directly related) and criteria (top/mid is OR and sourcing on such division remains contested and ambiguous). As noted already, List of video game publishers and Category:Video game publishers serve this better without semi-OR grouping. — HELL KNOWZ  ▎TALK 16:05, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. I think that it is incredibly broad and arbitrary to name some publishers "top" and the criteria for it will be almost impossible to resolve. Nomader (talk) 20:53, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Cite pmid/12615090

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 04:41, 24 February 2016 (UTC) Orphaned citation template. According to User:RussBot/Orphaned templates/004, this was orphaned in a 2009 database dump so it's been orphaned a while. Ricky81682 (talk) 12:17, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Cite pmid/12615090


 * Comment Really, what is the point of nominating these templates one by one? There are thousands of them. Let the bots handle it. This also applies to the nomination below. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 17:55, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I didn't know the number of these that are orphaned. I was also proposing a speedy discussion about it and the issue of what's the TFD consensus is there. Old discussions have resulted in being kept so that it can be discussed more so I wanted to flush this out more. We can still delete this one and let the bots handle the rest since according to Bot_requests, there's 7094 orphaned ones and 4 in use. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 20:28, 5 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete hardcoded instance of a citation template; Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate database -- 70.51.200.135 (talk) 05:40, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete as unused —PC-XT+ 02:57, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
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Template:Cite doi/10.1001.2Farchneur.1971.00480340107013

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The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 04:42, 24 February 2016 (UTC) Orphaned cite doi template. The template is deprecated but there's still over 58k pages in Category:Cite doi templates. Ricky81682 (talk) 09:46, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Cite doi/10.1001.2Farchneur.1971.00480340107013


 * Comment While it seems pointless, I didn't know the number of these that are orphaned. I was also proposing a speedy discussion about it and the issue of what's the TFD consensus is there. Old discussions have resulted in being kept so that it can be discussed more so I wanted to flush this out more. We can still delete this one and let the bots handle the rest since according to Bot_requests, there's 27.9k orphaned at the moment which is roughly half. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 20:29, 5 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete hardcoded instance of a citation template; Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate database -- 70.51.200.135 (talk) 05:40, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete as unused —PC-XT+ 03:00, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
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Template:KCC Malls

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The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 04:42, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * KCC Malls
 * Delete. No useful navigation. Sixth of March 07:44, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete, would fail WP:NENAN even if all links were blue. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 03:39, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete - it was no article here since Sixth of March per nom. Oripaypaykim (talk) 14:41, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
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Template:Extinct volcanoes of the Andes

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The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 21:21, 25 February 2016 (UTC) Propose merging Template:Extinct volcanoes of the Andes with Template:Andean volcanoes.
 * Extinct volcanoes of the Andes
 * Andean volcanoes

As noted on Template talk:Extinct volcanoes of the Andes, this template has problems with WP:OR (many of the volcanoes listed are not called "extinct" by sources), partly because the distinction is rarely meaningful and difficult to make. Further, the subdivision of extinct volcanoes in three volcanic zones makes no sense since the gaps separating them are defined by the lack of present day volcanism (c.f Andean Volcanic Belt and ). Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 14:17, 21 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Oppose the merger because:
 * 1. extinct volcanoes can not be fit into the four modern arcs of the Andean volcanic belt as it is currently done in Template:Andean volcanoes, and including them would therefore destroy an otherwise "round" template.
 * 2. adding extinct (pre-Holocene) volcanoes to the Template:Andean volcanoes would make it a rather unselective dump with no clear end.
 * It would be better to delete Template:Extinct volcanoes of the Andes and create categories in the style of Category:Miocene volcanism in South America. Sietecolores (talk) 16:50, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Good points there. Taking note that things like Category:Volcanoes of Chile already exist, just deleting the "Extinct..." navbox may also work.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 10:28, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank for feedback Jo-Jo Eumerus. I was a bit a bit harsh in the in the opposition, but I see we seem to agree. I think the option for now is to delete the template and making a good categorization of everything that was on it. I like templates (for example: template:Major South American geological formations) but I am also concerned about the proliferation of templates that can be redundant (adds little or no value). Sietecolores (talk) 16:09, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 03:40, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
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Template:Mission

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The result of the discussion was delete. The wording (or parts of it) should be merged/added to an appropriate cleanup template based on consensus below. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 04:49, 24 February 2016 (UTC) This cleanup template references a very specific issue that is usually easier to fix immediately, or indicates some broader problem that is better tagged with advert, peacock, etc. At the moment, it has very few (or no) transclusions. It categorizes articles into Category:Articles with sections that need to be turned into prose, which is misleading; it implies a structural issue rather than a content issue. — Earwig   talk  23:33, 6 January 2016 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Mission
 * Delete per nom; ridiculously specific issue that's unlikely to arise frequently; peacock/advert should suffice. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 06:21, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. --Izno (talk) 17:46, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep There is no requirement that templates address only frequently occurring issues. This template very clearly describes a quality issue that is seen in articles covering corporations or other organizations in a way that more generic quality tags don't. The lack of current transclusions can be explained not only by the size of the niche this addresses but also the effectiveness this template has in getting those issues addressed. I agree that categorization issues should be resolved but lets not through the baby out with the bathwater.  --RadioFan (talk) 18:03, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment It can be hard to know if these templates are being used, because if they do their job, they will have no transclusions. At the same time, the fewer number of them, the less time editors waste looking for the right one. I'm leaning towards consolidation in this case... —PC-XT+ 00:20, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 06:15, 21 January 2016 (UTC) <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 03:40, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete as overly specific. The problem doesn't appear to be on enough articles to warrant a split from advert. I wouldn't mind specific issue as subpoints and optional parameters on the main template. — HELL KNOWZ  ▎TALK 16:08, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete per my above comment, though I would probably support customization of the main template —PC-XT+ 03:03, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
 * That might be a reasonable parameter to add. —  Earwig   talk 04:07, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
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Template:Montana State Bobcats bowl game navbox
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was merge with Montana State Bobcats football navbox and delete. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 04:54, 24 February 2016 (UTC) Navbox with just 3 links, only two of which are the topic of the Navbox. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 11:08, 13 January 2016 (UTC) <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Montana State Bobcats bowl game navbox
 * Merge into Montana State Bobcats football navbox between parentheses after "Bowl games" and then delete. I think such mergers should be applied to all those other college football bowl navboxes. Why these stand-alone navboxes for just the bowls? - HyperGaruda (talk) 10:50, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 02:23, 21 January 2016 (UTC) <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 03:40, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
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Template:Historical capitals of Serbia
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was no consensus. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 21:05, 25 February 2016 (UTC) Being a historical capital of Serbia is a quite ill-defined property: what's a "capital" in the 10th century? What was "Serbia" in 1526 and how Subotica was its "capital"? How Timisoara was a capital of Serbia in 1849–1860 I dare not even look up, as it isn't even mentioned in Timisoara article. Even if it were better defined, it still clearly fails the criterion at WP:NAV: "Take any two articles in the template. Would a reader really want to go from A to B?". It could be made into a list with clear explanation of the "capital" or "Serbia", but a valid navbox it isn't. No such user (talk) 09:38, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Historical capitals of Serbia
 * I didn't notice that it has been nominated before, at Templates for discussion/Log/2015 March 17. Still, I believe that the issue is worth revisiting, and that having been some kind of capital of some form of Serbia is not a property which would make anyone navigate from one article to the other (except out of sheer curiosity how it was Timisoara or Debrc). No such user (talk) 09:44, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete as per point in previous discussion.--Z oupan 11:56, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep I don't see anything stated as a reason for deletion. If Subotica or Timisoara were not capitals of Serbia, they could easily be removed from the template. Someone reading about the history of Serbia might want to read up on its historical capitals and might want to go from Pristina to Skoplje. Nikola (talk) 15:57, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
 * The policy reason I stated is WP:NAV, and my broader concern is Avoid template creep. Too much information and navigation templates simply impede the efficient user experience. I was cleaning up a dozen navboxes at the bottom of Belgrade, and that one stood up as quite unnecessary (along with even less appropriate Eurovision Song Contest). No such user (talk) 16:09, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 02:23, 21 January 2016 (UTC) <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 03:40, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
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Template:Sinosceptic
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
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The result of the discussion was move nomination to MFD. Primefac (talk) 05:12, 24 February 2016 (UTC) Not sure why this template/userbox was created. It doesn't seem suitable for Wikipedia, because it says that the user has a phobia against anything associated with China. MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 01:12, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Sinosceptic
 * Keep. Sinoscepticism is a valid opinion for one to hold; whether it's a good or bad opinion is beyond TfD's remit. A display of one's (dis-)interests and opinions is allowed on userpages, as with all the other examples in Category:Political user templates. Deryck C. 23:30, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * wrong venue, userboxes are discussed at WP:MFD. Frietjes (talk) 20:54, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
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Template:Singaporean Sinosceptic
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
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The result of the discussion was move discussion to MFD per policy. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 05:14, 24 February 2016 (UTC) Not sure why this template was created. This template is an userbox that says that the user has a phobia against people from Singapore. I believe this template/userbox is not suitable for Wikipedia. MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 01:08, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Singaporean Sinosceptic
 * Keep, see above. Deryck C. 23:30, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * wrong venue, userboxes are discussed at WP:MFD. Frietjes (talk) 20:54, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
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Template:Sporting Fingal F.C. squad
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
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The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 05:15, 24 February 2016 (UTC) The team dissolved in 2011, so this roster template isn't needed anymore. MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 00:57, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Sporting Fingal F.C. squad
 * delete, defunct. Frietjes (talk) 20:53, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
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