Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2024 March 20

 &lt; March 19 March 21 &gt;

Template:Hurricane season bar/start

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. ✗ plicit  23:39, 27 March 2024 (UTC) no longer used after changes to Template:Hurricane season bar. Could be history merged with WP:WikiProject Tropical cyclones/Idea/HSBS and HSBE Frietjes (talk) 16:42, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Hurricane season bar/start
 * Hurricane season bar/end
 * Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 01:33, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom -- Lenticel ( talk ) 11:52, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Lists of people in Playboy

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. ✗ plicit  23:41, 27 March 2024 (UTC) Nearly all of these redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of the Month. -- wooden superman  16:10, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Lists of people in Playboy
 * Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 01:33, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom -- Lenticel ( talk ) 11:52, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Victoria's Secret Fashion Show model navboxes

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. ✗ plicit  23:41, 27 March 2024 (UTC) This is pretty much WP:PERFNAV, modelling in a specific fashion show. -- wooden superman  16:07, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * 1995–1999 Victoria's Secret Fashion Show models
 * 2000–2009 Victoria's Secret Fashion Show models
 * 2010–2019 Victoria's Secret Fashion Show models
 * Keep I think the show is ancillary. This is more of a recognition of excellence in modelling. It is like being declared an All-American modelling athlete.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:11, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Seriously? They are literally performing in a fashion show.  This is like saying being an actor in a major movie is a recognition of excellence in acting! -- wooden  superman  08:43, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
 * as per nomination. This sort of content is more appropriate for lists and categories than for navboxes. If the content should be kept it should be moved to the likes of List of Victoria's Secret models (perhaps in a new section). The footer Victoria's Secret Fashion Show models template footer should be added to the list as it will be unused once the ones listed in the nomination are deleted. I would almost go so far as to suggest Victoria's Secret Angels and should also be deleted but I suppose they should wait for a separate discussion. —Uzume (talk) 10:34, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete This is not a recognition of modeling. This is just a list of who appeared in what show. Serves no purpose. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 01:33, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:PERFNAV. This can be moved to a list article if it is sourced. – Jonesey95 (talk) 03:40, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Unknown/doc

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. ✗ plicit  23:41, 27 March 2024 (UTC) Unused as parent template uses Template:Table cell templates/doc. Gonnym (talk) 15:53, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Unknown/doc
 * as per nomination. —Uzume (talk) 09:55, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 01:33, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom -- Lenticel ( talk ) 11:51, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:University of Oxford/doc

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. ✗ plicit  23:43, 27 March 2024 (UTC) Unused as parent templates use navbox documentation. Gonnym (talk) 15:52, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * University of Oxford/doc
 * ALGOL programming/doc
 * APL programming language/doc
 * Boston Radio/doc
 * College Station Radio/doc
 * Exo/doc
 * Keep the first, University of Oxford/doc, which is documentation for a protected template and should be restored to that template. Editors are guided in Template documentation that a separate /doc page "allows templates to be protected where necessary, limiting editing access to important templates' code while allowing anyone to edit those templates' documentation". Neutral on the rest of the /doc pages as their templates are unprotected.  P.I. Ellsworth &thinsp;, ed.  put'er there 19:18, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm unclear what the point here is. What value does University of Oxford/doc} offer that is missing currently? Gonnym (talk) 21:14, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Separate /doc pages are usually unprotected, so for protected templates it allows any user to make edits to the documentation without touching the protected template. By applying the Navbox documentation template to such templates it makes it impossible for some users to make documentation edits. This has always been one of the purposes of a separate /doc page, so in these cases the Navbox documentation template should actually be placed on the separate /doc page and not directly on the template.  P.I. Ellsworth &thinsp;,  ed.  put'er there 01:18, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I was interested why a navbox is a protected template, when these usually aren't. this shows 259 pages that use this navbox which shouldn't (per WP:BIDIRECTIONAL). Removing it from those pages should lower the protection. Gonnym (talk) 10:05, 21 March 2024 (UTC)


 * : Paine Ellsworth makes an interesting point as navbox documentation is also protected, meaning all 30k+ usages of it for documentation on navigational templates like those mentioned above are impacted, however, I believe this is a situation where Template documentation does not apply at least not as heavily. I am personally against constructions like being directly used by templates and would rather see it used on their individual /doc pages but as long as we already have such and the /doc pages are empty and unused I agree with the nomination. —Uzume (talk) 20:36, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete Boston Radio/doc and College Station Radio/doc as per nom. --DrChuck68 (talk) 22:14, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 01:33, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:WikimediaNoLicensing

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Primefac (talk) 11:18, 17 April 2024 (UTC) This template is legally void. Text on Wikipedia is licensed under Creative Commons (CC) licenses that allow relicensing under later versions of the licenses, as well as some other specific compatible ones (Free Art, GPLv3). No template can change this fact; contributors agree to the license from the Terms of Use. Best, Frostly (talk) 21:06, 4 March 2024 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 09:43, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * WikimediaNoLicensing
 * Delete The whole point of editing here is shown under the edit box: "By publishing changes, you agree to the Terms of Use, and you irrevocably agree to release your contribution under the CC BY-SA 4.0 License and the GFDL." There should not be a confused "I'm special" template. Johnuniq (talk) 23:10, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete – quoting myself from WP:VPW: "Even if legally void, why encourage that [attitude] with a template, even if it's just a pointless sign of an ornery user strutting some attitude on their user page"? It leads to questions about WP:HERE; or as Johnuniq phrased it, that they are somehow "special". Mathglot (talk) 00:53, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Subst and delete. Pointless template, at least currently, as far as article text is concerned:
 * GFDL 1.3 did not say editors could opt out of WMF's relicensing of their contributions in 2009.
 * CC-BY-SA 3.0 (used from 2009 to 2023) has a provision that makes it compatible with newer versions, though does not allow relicensing of existing contributions.
 * CC-BY-SA 4.0 does allow relicensing under newer versions (and compatible licenses from the Creative Commons list) for derivative works. Again, there is no opt-out provision.
 * Unlike many companies that operate Internet platforms (e.g. Meta, in section 3.3 of their terms), or some that run open source projects, the Wikimedia Foundation does not include in their Terms of Use a broad license for them to use submitted content, limited only by a vague purpose of use. Rather, editors grant WMF the same permissions that they grant every other member of the public, which do not include the right to sublicense their work.
 * The WMF generally does not write or edit articles or select which ones appear on the site, so likely won't have rights that way.
 * So at best, this template has no legal effect: aside from the relicensing that already happened in 2009, WMF has no special permission to relicense article text. At worst, editors who place this template on their user pages may be breaching not only the Terms of Use, but also CC-BY-SA 4.0, by refusing to grant the WMF the same license as every other member of the general public. Subst the template rather than remove it entirely so that it's still possible to find who those editors are. PleaseStand (talk) 06:41, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * PleaseStand, Can you clarify your goal? If the goal is only to see which editors had it, then you could replace it with just a hidden comment, like  or whatever. If your goal is to leave the rendered user page unchanged but trackable, then your proposal is needed, but I wasn't clear which you were going for. I think I might be swayed to support your !vote, maybe even either way, but I think I prefer the hidden code method. Mathglot (talk) 06:56, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * By subst and delete, I meant: preserve the existing text on each user page the template is already used on. I don't think that it is outside the realm of possibility that, in the future, a dispute could arise about whether the 2009 relicensing of GFDL contributions was legally valid in such cases. Such information should be retained and not altered; replacing the original text with a differing comment visible only in the wikitext source code is not OK. PleaseStand (talk) 09:19, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Coming here from the VPWMF discussion. Are there any grandfathering issues we need to take into account? Beyond that, while I certainly have no support for using this template, I have concerns about the rush to delete that cause me to lean oppose. Given that its usage is mostly historical at this point, it has historical value as an example of how early editors thought about copyright, and to the extent any users are still using it, it could have value aiding collaboration by indicating their views (much like political userboxes). We grant wide leeway for users to edit their user page as they see fit, so the bar to overcome that and remove something that an editor chose to add should be high.That said, the content of this template, like all others, is under community control. If we're concerned about it giving a misleading impression, we could just edit it to add an addendum that it's legally meaningless.  Sdkb  talk 18:14, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * As I state in my reply to Mathglot above, we shouldn't significantly alter users' statements of their views, including contemporaneous ones regarding what others are allowed to do with their contributions under copyright law. This is why I said to subst and delete&mdash;to preserve the statement in its original form for users who already added it (and still have it on their user pages), and to avoid future use that may arise should the template continue to exist and show up in various lists.
 * That said, if there still are users who would like to use this template, here's a different idea that might be worth considering. First, add an argument, such as, at all existing transclusion sites. Then, conditionally add some phrase like "except as consistent with CC BY-SA or other free licenses that apply". The old version of the text would still appear where it did before (the   case), while the new version would show for new uses that leave out the version argument.
 * I can see some significant drawbacks though. Old user page revisions would be misleading, as those transclusions cannot be fixed. Users might discover and misuse the version parameter, because they find that it makes the text shorter or simpler. It may be possible to avoid the first issue by checking the revision timestamp from within the template, and the second issue by showing an error message if the page title is not on a list that could be created at the time the text is changed. Subst and move without redirect would be simpler, with the only disadvantages being that the text will not show up for old revisions and that new uses would have to be under a different name. PleaseStand (talk) 09:19, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how the phrase except as consistent with CC BY-SA or other free licenses that apply would change the usefulness of the template. Both CC and GFDL licenses contain relicensing provisions; all content can't be relicensed outside of these provisions. I don't see how the line of text adds anything legally meaningful. — Frostly (talk) 23:33, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Add something like except as consistent with CC BY-SA or other free licenses that apply to the template. Currently, the template is misleading; that is an actual problem that needs to be fixed. But people are free to put meaningless templates on their userpage. House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 22:46, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Considering the template may have legal consequences, I do not think altering the main text in the template is a good idea. Janhrach (talk) 17:16, 14 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Delete Actively misleading template. The only argument for keeping it is that it's so obscure that it doesn't matter. But since it has already landed in Tfd we might as well get it over with. Tercer (talk) 15:03, 23 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Delete, but somehow archive the list of users who have used this template.
 * I do not think this template could be interpreted as expressing an opinion. Neither its look supports this – it is quite similar to the voluntary-multilicensing templates.
 * As for the interpretation, I also do not find it likely that the template is about limiting (for content users) the relicensing provisions of the licenses. (The WMF doesn't use the Wikipedia content in a way that needs relicensing.) I think this template refers to the invocation of the mass-relicensing clause of GFDL by WMF. This happened in 2009, but this template had been in existence since 2004. Maybe mass relicensing was already being discussed 2004. As far as I know, CC BY-SA wasn't in use on Wikipedia in 2004, and GFDL never included an option for relicensing by content users. This would refute that the original author of this template intended its use for what I described at the beginning of this paragraph, but of course this doesn't speak for all users of this template.
 * It is worth mentioning that declining to relicense media on Wikipedia (not on Commons) doesn't seem to be against the Terms of Use, per WP:Image license migration, but this template is redundant to the mechanism described there.
 * Refusing relicensing of text to CC BY-SA is indeed a violation of the current ToU, but I would ask a lawyer before assuming that this template doesn't affect the copyright status of contributions. We should however also keep in mind that the ToU could have significantly changed, so we should review the past versions.
 * Also, under the mass-relicensing-by-WMF interpretation of this template, this template has no use after 2009, since all contributions are licensed under CC BY-SA since then by default – no relicensing happens.
 * Janhrach (talk) 10:59, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * The editors using this template are:
 * User:Mirv
 * User:Mark via User:Mark/Copyrights
 * User:ImpalerBugz
 * User:SCLamont
 * User:Alexan es
 * User:CarlLU
 * User:Timtrent
 * User:Digitalme via User:Digitalme/Userpage4
 * User:Luke119
 * User:Tring-Tring
 * User:JGHowes
 * User:Barliner
 * User:L.Wadsworth
 * User:Chenzw
 * User:L'Aquatique via User:L'Aquatique/misc
 * User:Redmarkviolinist via User:Redmarkviolinist/Sandbox2
 * User:Wacky WeLsH LaD
 * User:Cjmarsicano – also via User:Cjmarsicano/Oldintropage and User:Cjmarsicano/User page archive
 * User:Nightsturm
 * User:Sirlanz
 * User:Lwarrenwiki
 * User:Good afternoon
 * User:Benjaminikuta
 * User:LisaKachold
 * I would like to ask active editors from this list to explain what they mean by usage of this template, considering the uncertainty over its meaning. Several editors use this template despite releasing their contributions to the public domain, I would be glad if they clarified that usage. And finally, I would like to ask all active editors from this list to reconsider their usage of this template. Janhrach (talk) 16:53, 14 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Keep, for historical value. Benjamin (talk) 23:29, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete This discussion itself provides sufficient analysis of the "historical value" of this template, no need to keep it around forevermore. * Pppery * it has begun... 15:43, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Tehsils of the Federally Administered Tribal Areas

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. ✗ plicit  11:17, 27 March 2024 (UTC) FATA has been dissolved and restructured into KPK for 6 years now; many if not most of the FATA tehsils have undergone multiple rounds of dissolution, reorg; this template is no longer included in any articles and has been replaced by the newer KPK tehsil navbox. RightQuark (talk) 09:40, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Tehsils of the Federally Administered Tribal Areas
 * Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 01:37, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

AFI templates

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. TLDR: the no consensus of this discussion defaults to deletion based on past discussions.Numerically, and for the most part argument-wise, there is equal support on either side of this discussion. While normally that would simply be grounds for a "no consensus" close and nothing done, previous discussions and the evolution of the template landscape must be considered, especially when the previous two discussions were unanimously in favour of deletion (and because everyone was saying that the closer needed to take this into account). Multiple users advocating to keep indicated that the decline of the G4 nomination was reason enough to keep, but I will note that it was Randy Kryn (a non-admin) who declined the G4 before opposing here; speaking personally, if I had seen the G4 before the revert I would have deleted because it is substantially similar to previous versions of the deleted template.Those advocating to keep have also indicated that the "landscape has changed" and a TFD from a decade ago does not necessarily have the same weight as a more recent discussion. While I do agree with this general idea, in this particular case the "landscape" has actually moved towards deleting more of these types of templates where the connection between navbox items is not necessarily a defining feature of the member articles. Primefac (talk) 16:44, 19 April 2024 (UTC) Speedy delete per WP:CSD. Recently recreated navboxes were deleted unanimously per this discussion. Recent deletion of similar navboxes here shows that appetite has not changed. -- wooden superman  08:34, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * AFI's 10 Top 10
 * AFI's 100 Years...100 Stars
 * Procedural keep. Recent deletion of similar navboxes (...) shows that appetite has not changed. does not sound like an actual reason to delete these templates. SD was declined (see page history). I cannot see the problem with those navboxes.- My, oh my! (Mushy Yank)  10:02, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep, these navboxes are of large interest to readers and cover reputable and non-controversial major film polls. Other deletion attempts of similar material are either being kept or are being considered for deletion review, and the linked deletion is from 2012 Nothing wrong here except "I don't like it". Randy Kryn (talk) 14:30, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter how old the discussion is, the arguments are still the same, and per this more recent discussion, consensus is still there. It's not a matter of "i don't like it", in fact it's the opposite Randy.  It's more WP:ITSINTERESTING on your part. -- wooden  superman  16:45, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete per previous discussions, little value in navigation. Indagate (talk) 14:48, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Great value in navigation. If seen at someone's favorite film a reader may want to follow the pattern of films chosen by AFI as representing the best of the profession. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:55, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * How is that represented in this navbox? Stick to the articles, content of these navboxes is way too tangential. -- wooden  superman  16:46, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The articles on a film or actor listed in the navbox may mention the honor, but would not give readers an overview of the thinking of the critics of their profession about the totality of films and individuals so-honored. The navboxe does this instantly. Navboxes are very wonderful things, and may be one of the most undervalued of Wikipedia features. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:33, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Absolutely Keep: Concur with @Randy Kryn, in that the navbox functions in the exact same way as a Best Picture Oscar box would. With BP, those are sometimes dubious decisions that receive mixed retroflection. AFI Top lists are more valued and esteemed, regarded as the best of the best, and therefore, it does in fact guide a user to other high caliber titles or list items. There is nothing objectionable about this navbox; it is very well-maintained, clean, functional, informative, and useful. I also concur w/ @Mushy Yank that the reason isn't sound either. --Cinemaniac86TalkStalk 16:54, 5 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Pinging all participants in previous discussions. . -- wooden superman  09:44, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Sounding the alarm? Let's also ping get all the editors who edited these and any other film poll/award navboxes. I don't understand why, upon reading that some editors have good keep reasons, editors don't just let navboxes-under-discussion stay. If a healthy percentage of experienced editors find value in them then a percentage of readers would too. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:02, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * None of the reasons are good "keep" reasons. All I'm seeing is WP:ILIKEIT and WP:ITSINTERESTING.  If this is encyclopedic, it belongs in an article, not a navbox.  This and Cahiers du Cinéma's Top Ten Films are completely unsuitale topics for a WP:NAVBOX. -- wooden  superman  11:10, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * They are completely suitable topics for a navbox, and concisely present the best films and film stars as reputably polled by the American Film Institute (with much press sourced coverage I may add). What "is interesting" is that only 50 stars were named in the "100 stars" poll. As for the Cahiers du Cinema's top ten films, they are accepted as a major poll, and the navbox highlights the top ten of all time in an easily understood format. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:23, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * This is an article from 2008. Should we have navboxes every time a magazine or website or film society list their favourite films?  What about a navbox for TimeOut's Best Martial Arts Movies of All Time while we're at it?  Or The BBC's 100 Greatest Comedies of All Time?  All of these lists fail the purpose of a navbox.  These films do not form a clearly defined set, they're just opinion polls. -- wooden  superman  11:32, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The honoring of these films and actors is the clearly defined set. The 2008 poll is definitely accepted as one of the major all-time polls, with the main poll being Sight and Sound's esteemed tenannual poll. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:35, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * That's not a definitive set by any stretch. "Best of" is always subjective.  It's just opinion. -- wooden  superman  11:38, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * ? The Academy Awards are just opinion. The Nobel Peace Prize is just opinion. The Golden Globes are just opinion. Will also ping who has shown past interest in voting in film poll deletion requests. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:53, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm no fan of any "awards" navboxes, but that is a list of winners for any given year, not nominations. At least an award is something tangible, appearing in an opinion poll is not.  Also Randy, I should warn you about pinging an individual editor just because you think they will agree with you in an attempt to game the system.  Did you ping all of the editors in the discussions that this user expressed an opinion in? -- wooden  superman  12:01, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * No, you pinged them. But left out Butlerblog. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:08, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * No I did not, they did not participate in either of the linked AFI discussions here or here. I'm trying very hard to WP:AGF, but... -- wooden  superman  12:13, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Oh, you just pinged the AFI discussion, I included the Sight and Sound deletion request participants (there were three, two of them must have also commented at AFI). I'm acting in good faith in wanting readers to have these good navboxes available to them, if that's what you're concerned about. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:18, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Well, this is about the previous discussions for the AFI templates, not the separate Sight and Sound one. Your comment that you are "wanting readers to have these good navboxes available to them" seems like an admission of bad faith on your part.  And stop claiming these are "good" navboxes, as previous consensus shows they are not. -- wooden  superman  12:33, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * So wanting readers to have these navboxes available to them is "an admission of bad faith"? Uh, okay (insert gif of Homer Simpson backing into the bushes here). Randy Kryn (talk) 13:17, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * You've admitted that you WP:CANVASSED this user because you want the navbox kept. -- wooden superman  13:23, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I canvassed one person because you were canvassing the participants in these poll deletions and left one out. I thought you included the Sight and Sound deletion because it's been discussed in this discussion, but you didn't (the two others who commented were in your ping list). Randy Kryn (talk) 13:32, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I think Randy Kryn has supported that it's WP:APPNOTE, not canvassing. And as noted, had I known about the other AFI discussions ahead of time, I most certainly would have provided input.  I can only watch so much at any given time, and it's frustrating to find out about these after the fact.   Butler Blog   (talk) 16:49, 6 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Keep per Randy Kryn, I tend to agree that AFI isn't the same as a top 10 from Joe's Cool Film Site. It's not a random magazine - it's a primary source in the industry. Also per Mushy Yank - a twelve year-old discussion is not as relevant as something recent, and that shouldn't flippantly discounted.  I appreciate Randy Kryn's ping because I don't see where this was cross posted to WP:FILM, which it affects.  I've seen a tendency in the past for that to happen (or actually, not happen) - and a template that a larger discussion may have kept is deleted because of a 3-person discussion.  (Had I been aware of the other related discussions mentioned that I was not involved in, I would have participated if they were FILM, WP:WESTERNS, or WP:TV.)    Butler Blog   (talk) 12:48, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete for identical reasons as my comment here. It is not likely that a reader would view the work's AFI listing as its defining feature and seek to navigate around these articles directly. It is more likely that an interested reader would learn about the AFI list, or start from the AFI list, which should be mentioned and linked in each article and provides the central point of navigation. — Bilorv ( talk ) 17:36, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Why would a reader have to view the AFI listing as a film's defining feature? Not understanding that point. And if a navbox on the page lists the AFI films then a reader is being given the option of reading the navbox and possibly would be interested in reading about, say, the first three films on the list. I don't understand the point of your last sentence. Randy Kryn (talk) 02:49, 11 March 2024 (UTC)


 * delete as navbox creep. a list article is enough. Frietjes (talk) 16:55, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Not a reason to delete, the guidelines reiterate that lists, navboxes, and categories are all equal ways to navigate pages on Wikipedia and should not be argued as an either=or choice. Randy Kryn (talk) 02:44, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
 * They are different ways to navigate, not equal ways. It doesn't mean that all are suitable in each case. -- wooden  superman  12:08, 13 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Delete Still meets the merits of deletion as it did last time. AFI is a list honor, not an award. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 00:17, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Question and discussion, per WP:IAR we should be keeping this in order to maintain Wikipedia. All the edits we make should be for one purpose: to inform the readers. How is removing these navboxes either "improving" or "maintaining" Wikipedia per IAR? Seems they should be an easy keep taking those criteria into consideration, and in consideration of keeping readers fully informed and able to come across links doing so in a timely fashion. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:08, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
 * We only WP:IAR if it benefits Wikipedia. Trivial navbox clutter does not benefit Wikipedia.  It seems sometimes that you forget that there are such things as articles where people can be informed and stumble upon things whilst reading. -- wooden  superman  15:34, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete. Just adds to template clutter since most of these films would have received other accolades as well displayed via other navboxes (some that should probably be nominated for deletion as well). The connection amongst the films themselves is tenuous. This is a perfect example where having the list is sufficient for those interested in the topic. Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 03:57, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 09:36, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The connection is obvious: AFI's selection. As for a list as opposed to the template, see WP:CLN where the summary reads: "This page in a nutshell: Categories, lists, and navigation templates are three different ways to group and organize articles. Although they each have their own advantages and disadvantages, each method complements the others.", and in the text: "Accordingly, these methods should not be considered in conflict with each other. Rather, they are synergistic, each one complementing the others." Randy Kryn (talk) 09:14, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * : Although the previous deletion discussion is interesting, I believe it is no longer relevant and in light of its actual usage it should be kept. The nomination points at a very old Tfd which in turn points at another where the primary reasoning was lack of content and duplication. This seems to no longer be true (and the declined SD seems to reinforce that). —Uzume (talk) 10:06, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete - As noted by Bilorv, inclusion in AFI's list is not a defining feature of the article subjects, so it is highly improbable that readers would want to navigate from one article to another through this navbox. Anyone interested in the AFI lists would naturally go to the article for that list, and if desired navigate further from there, in contrast to navboxes for series and directors, where an interested reader is likely to visit an individual film's article first. Reviewing the "keep" arguments, they all seem to merely support the retention of navboxes in general and articles for AFI's lists (both things which no one in this discussion has argued against so far as I can see), or debate whether the 2012 consensus is still valid. If there is an argument for why a navbox specifically for AFI's lists is sensible, I'm not seeing it here.--Martin IIIa (talk) 14:58, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
 * They define the respect and critical selection of each film and individual as one of the best films ever made or the best actors in the practice of their chosen profession. Some readers certainly may be interested in the other films or actors in that elevated class. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:13, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
 * If they are interested, they can read the article, this is not justification for a navbox. -- wooden superman  14:21, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
 * nor is it a reason to delete these easily navigatable navboxes. Would like to note that this discussion had been reasonably closed as "no consensus" and then reopened by the closer for a good faith but unspecified reason. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:23, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
 * As these recently created templates were deleted through deletion discussion, a "no consensus" outcome should result in the status quo: i.e. there is no consensus to re-create the template. Which is why they should have been speedily deleted in the first place unless appetite for re-creation was demonstrated. -- wooden  superman  15:06, 3 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Keep: per . Drowssap  SMM  23:55, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep: per as well. -- Mazewaxie  ( talk  •  contribs ) 21:41, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.