Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Equine/Archive 7

Fjord horse
Hello, with a friend from fr:projet:monde équestre we have improved the article about the Fjord horse. It will be soon proposed as quality article. There's a lot of sources in english if you want to translate --Tsaag Valren (talk) 15:19, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Vote is open in french --Tsaag Valren (talk) 16:24, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Article about Nonius horse is proposed as a good quality article today in french, with sources in both fr. and hungarian --Tsaag Valren (talk) 21:47, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
 * That is very cool! It looks like our article is already in fairly good shape, but some of the non-English sources you used in the French article would definitely improve it! I'll put it on my to-do list. Thanks Amelie - you're doing amazing work! I don't know if you have any interest in translating some of the US breed articles, but we've recently improved Colorado Ranger, Kentucky Mountain Saddle Horse and American Saddlebred, all of which are already at good article status or nominated for that status. Dana boomer (talk) 23:04, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Translating in wp is a manner to improve my english gratis and it's useful (with proofreading, if I made ​​mistakes others people correct). Usually I translate articles interesting me for some reasons... Mustangs with the dream of the "wild horse". Colorado Ranger, Kentucky Mountain Saddle Horse and American Saddlebred, if I translate it's just for the exercise ;). Kentucky mountain is a very beautiful horse ! --Tsaag Valren (talk) 10:53, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Our GA and FA-class articles are a good place to start. Most of them are in a list (though not the newest ones -- Dana, can you add those?  We don't appear to have Morgan horse in there yet, either!) at [] for easy one-stop GA/FA shopping!   Montanabw (talk) 18:52, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Equus occidentalis and other extinct horses
I've been creating articles about extinct horses over the years, but we are still very far to go before we get anywhere near complete. I think there should be an article for every extinct genus, at least. I was going to create an article about the "Western horse", Equus occidentalis, but I noticed it is sometimes written as Equus "occidentalis". I have not been able to find any explanation for this, is it considered invalid by someone? FunkMonk (talk) 17:53, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * After a quick look, the only reliable source I see that uses the quotes is the Page Museum. In theri fauna list, they write "Equus cf. E. occidentalis Leidy, 1865 †" which to me signifies that they aren't willing to say that their horse fossils agree with the type specimen of E. occidentalis. That would explain the quotes, as a way of saying "Equus maybe occidentalis".--Curtis Clark (talk) 21:47, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks, that makes sense. I got confused because it also turned up on a Google scholar search, but I guess that may also have referred to La Brea specimens. FunkMonk (talk) 22:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I saw it in a couple of other places that seemed to have taken it from Page as well. I'm sure they're not trying to intentionally confuse people, but it's not at all clear what they are doing without looking at the fauna list.--Curtis Clark (talk) 02:01, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Someone ping User:KimvdLinde, she's our resident equine taxonomist.  Montanabw (talk) 02:25, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Horses in warfare image
Hi all, we are having another round of discussion about replacing the lead image of Horses in warfare. This time, it's a friendly ,good faith discussion with some really good ideas being generated. I'm inviting all people who watchlist this page to "trot" over there and comment. This has been a contentious, edit-war worthy issue in the past, but this time, we at least all agree on the basics -- that the image has to look good at thumbnail or 180-200px size in the lead, so no huge battle scenes, please! I'm kind of pushing to get a decision done, but don't want to do so without real strong consensus, so am inviting all who have cared in the past - and contributed constructively - to weigh in. Thanks! Montanabw (talk) 20:29, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Another set of stats
All may want to search the word "Horse" on this page of the most-viewed articles on all of wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:West.andrew.g/Popular_pages Horse is on the list, and not surprisingly, Horsemeat, but, interestingly, this week, so is Tennessee Walking Horse. May be a place where we look at focus for article improvement, not just the longer-term stats within WPEQ tagged articles. (Is there some reason why the TWH is in the news lately??) Just FYI and food for thought. Montanabw (talk) 17:04, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

No article about neighing ?
Hello, today, on the fr:Wikipédia, we have on the main page an article about neighing. I think it's a good idea to translate but for me, fr to english is a bit difficult ;) And... you have a distinctive terminology, we don't have. Don't know if I can create with to neigh, neighing or another name ! --Tsaag Valren (talk) 10:52, 26 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Seems like a great idea, although as the FR article notes, English contains a number of words to describe specific sounds of the horse (like whinny, whicker and neigh) which French lacks. To me, the article should probably be at Equine vocalisation or something similar, and there are good number of journal articles which discuss this topic, this one is just one example. OwainDavies (about)(talk) edited at 15:40, 26 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Owain, if you want to start the article, go for it, and create redirects for whinny, neigh, etc...? Do we have stuff for bray or braying too??   Montanabw (talk) 00:56, 27 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Yep, i'll put it on my list, and get to it asap. You're right about braying - should this be a horse vocalisation article, to stop creep in to describing zebra and donkey noises? OwainDavies (about)(talk) edited at 08:48, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * We have a start article in fr ans spanish for braying if you need. --Tsaag Valren (talk) 08:58, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Donkey, burro, jenny?
There was a suggestion in Feb 2012 to merge burro and jenny_(donkey) with donkey - are there experts on the subject who can weigh in? Are all the same genus/species and if so is this the correct criterion for making this decision? Sara FB (talk) 23:23, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The former are just European donkeys imported to the Americas. The latter is just a female donkey. A merge would be in order, unless we really need a seperate article about donkeys in Spanish speaking America. I think we don't. Especially since the scope is erroneous; donkeys are not only called burros in the new world, but also in Spain. FunkMonk (talk) 23:27, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I see now that there has been a lot of discussion about this on those talk pages, but no action has been taken. Sara FB (talk) 23:33, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 * It is apparently slightly smaller than the donkeys in Europe, so perhaps it is considered a distinct breed. The article doesn't really make this clear, though. FunkMonk (talk) 23:36, 3 March 2013 (UTC)


 * The person who started the whole dispute is no longer editing wikipedia. My position then and now is that burro was a WP:CONTENT FORK and should be merged back into the donkey article.  However, on the jenny article, it is parallel to mare, which is extensive and a stand-alone article, so perhaps more discussion is in order there as to whether to expand the existing article or merge it back into the main piece.  I suggest, however, that we take this over to the article talk page.   Montanabw (talk) 20:54, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I personally don't think Jenny could ever be anything but a stub. There is extensive literature on all aspects of horse biology, simply because horses are popular animals and have been so for millennia, with a multitude of terms involved. Donkeys aren't exactly in the same league, and we don't have a separate article for other animal sexes. FunkMonk (talk) 21:00, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, there is bull, but I see your point. Let me think about this a bit and maybe see what is out there. You may be right.  Montanabw (talk) 20:06, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Prizes
I've done up some equine-themed wikilove prizes here: User:Montanabw/Pony prize. Would anyone object if I put them up on the project page as a prize that any WPEQ member could award? Montanabw (talk) 23:15, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

American gaited breed aware people, please recognise these gaits for me (also fine vs pleasure driving)
I have a bunch of American gaited breeds performing gaits I don't recognise (with the expection of the Saddlebred rack, if and when it resembles the Icelandic tölt) -- I'll have a gallery in my subpage transcluded here so please pop by at User:Pitke/Gaits to help identify stuff.

Also, if anyone can give me a foolproof, failsafe, way of differentiating between pics of fine and pleasure driving, that'd be great.

Below is what we have this far. I'll be updating it.

--Pitke (talk) 12:05, 12 March 2013 (UTC)


 * If the driver is wearing a formal top hat and bow tie, or a woman with a really sparkly evening gown, you KNOW it's Fine harness. If the cart has only two wheels, you KNOW it's Pleasure driving.  However, these are not the only criterion: the gray area is an image of a driver in a suit sans bow tie or a lady in a dress that is not clearly evening wear, and the horse is pulling a four-wheeled cart  these could be either pleasure or fine harness.  I can probably sort out those.  The very broad rule is that fine harness (or, in some breeds, "formal driving" is for the more animated, high-action horses while pleasure driving is for the more "normal" horses without all the fancy geegaws and clown shoes.  Montanabw (talk) 18:02, 12 March 2013 (UTC)


 * On the ambling gaits, breed of the animal offers your best guess. if it's a Saddlebred, it's most likely either racking or doing a slower lateral gait, called a "slow gait" which is, basically, the same footfall pattern, just slower (stepping pace, singlefoot, etc...) Sometimes quite difficult to distinguish in a photo between a rack and a slow gait if the horses have the heavy shoes to make them highly animated. And a photo won't tell you if the horse is doing an asynchronous slow gait (stepping pace, which has a "ta-ta, ta-ta" rhythm) or a synchronous slow gait (the singlefoot, which has a "ta-ta-ta-ta" rhythm) If a Tennessee Walking horse, then it's doing a Running Walk.  If it's a Missouri Fox Trotter, then it's doing a fox trot (a diagonal ambling gait rather than a lateral ambling gait).  And yeah, the Tolt and the Rack have the same footfall pattern. (and the Paso Largo, for that matter) Don't ever try to convince their breeders that it's the exact same gait, however!  Identical footfall patterns be damned, these are unique gaits and no other breed has as smooth a gait as MY breed!  (sheesh) =:-O   Montanabw (talk) 18:02, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Switzerland equestrian project at Avenches
Hello all ! After the Cadre Noir project with Wikimedia France last year (see the photos in the article Cadre Noir), there's for this year the same project in... Switzerland, the 30 may 2013 (afternoon). We will work on the Freiberger breed (fr article is very good now), the Haras federal of Avenches (article exist in fr and deutsch, not in english : fr:Haras national (Suisse)) and the Swiss Warmblood. The swiss wikipedians speak deutsch and french so all these articles in french will probably be translated in deutsch the same day. If there's some en wikipedians motivated to translate all these articles in english, it promises to be an exciting experience - I think we will have a chatroom (or for me, Skype) dedicated for this day. If you are interested fo the chatroom, don't forget the large time difference between Switzerland and the United States ;) --Tsaag Valren (talk) 23:46, 20 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Many Swiss people speak quite fluent English; if anyone wants to dive into en.wiki directly, we would welcome their help!  Montanabw (talk) 17:34, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Hello, I've some news for this
 * Swiss scientifics have given me access to recent genetics studies about horses (and coat colors), but it's just too technical english for me. So, if somebody want to have these documents (and use them just for wp), just say to me!
 * An idea for the Swiss journey (30 may) is to have a chatroom (don't know really how it work, but...) This chatroom could be used to work in differents langages for swiss horse breeds and the swiss national stud. Just say me if you have specialists of chatroom on the en:wiki.

I will create an article for the (now) international equestrian journal ichevalsavoir.com (with free licence) and for fr:wikinews. Probably the swiss stud will gave us an access for many scientifics documents and it's better if english-native-speaker work with it! --Tsaag Valren (talk) 13:29, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm the genetics geek here, link me the article or send it to me via email...You might also want to note that we have done a LOT of work on the individual horse coat color articles here on en.wiki...  Montanabw (talk) 22:51, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Please expand Chrystine Tauber, new President of the United States Equestrian Federation
Greetings. Would anyone like to expand Chrystine Tauber's page? She serves as USEF's new president until 2017.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:36, 14 April 2013 (UTC)


 * No time here, but no problem if someone else wants to expand this BLP in accordance with WP's policies.  Montanabw (talk) 16:32, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Article for creation?
Someone want to start equestrian tourism? Seems we have no article, and that's an omission. We do have trail riding, mounted orienteering, pleasure riding and Trec, seems an obvious need here. Montanabw (talk) 20:56, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

File:JMKTaxiCarriage1.jpg
File:JMKTaxiCarriage1.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 06:15, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Bridle types
Greetings from Project Horse Racing. I wonder if any of you can help me with this. Is there a special name for a bridle without a noseband like the one being worn here. Would there be a particular reason for using this type of bridle?  Tigerboy1966  19:36, 3 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I've sometimes heard them called an "open" bridle, but not sure if that references ones solely without a cavesson or if it also includes stuff like no blinkers, etc. . Of course, in western riding, the non-noseband model is typical and we just call it a "bridle" (grins). I'll defer to anyone else, Ealdgyth??    Montanabw (talk) 22:39, 3 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I haven't found any explanation for why it's used, I wonder if it's just an aesthetic thing: the arrangement gives the horse a freer, more natural look and is much favoured by Henry Cecil, although he used a figure-8 noseband (see, I'm learning) for Frankel.  Tigerboy1966   21:51, 10 June 2013 (UTC)


 * A horse has more freedom to move his tongue and jaw without a cavesson/noseband. That isn't always a good thing, but I suppose for a horse that is a bit claustrophobic about his face, it might help.  But that's OR and speculation on my part. It's standard in western riding but in western, we want the horse to go on a loose rein,too.   Montanabw (talk) 22:39, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

New images
Hello, new files in the Commons:Category:Equestrian sports (and sub categories) you can find at Commons:User:Nordlicht8/Equestriansports. Maybe it is useful for your work. --Nordlicht8 (talk) 18:25, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

File:EmpireCityCasinoRacetrack1899.JPG
File:EmpireCityCasinoRacetrack1899.JPG has been nominated for deletion -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 07:31, 3 June 2013 (UTC)


 * image:EmpireCityCasinoRacetrack1899.JPG has been nominated for deletion -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 10:42, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Oldest genome sequence
This ITN nomination might be of interest to folk here, as it's the genome sequence of a horse and pushes back the theoretical divergence of the horse 2million years accordng to the nature article. EdwardLane (talk) 08:30, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Category:Dickin Medal recepients should be completed
A few of the war horses so notable as to receive the highest award for such animals, the Dickin Medal, still do not have articles. I hope by posting this here, one or more members of WikiProject Equine might be encouraged to help see to it that each horse given this highest honor gets an article of its own. You might want to begin your research at the article Dickin Medal, where there are a few references if you would like to follow up. Chrisrus (talk) 03:22, 6 July 2013 (UTC)


 * It's an interesting idea. That said, there are over 3000 articles tagged for wikiproject Equine and only about 4 or 5 active members, so we may have someone interested, but no guarantees.  You might want to cross-post at WP Military History and if anyone there is interested in taking this up, we'd be glad to pop over to offer equine-specific assistance.   Montanabw (talk) 00:46, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your reply. I'm surprised that the horse project isn't more popular.  Lots of people love horses.  I have done as you suggested and left a similar message at the Military History project. Chrisrus (talk) 02:31, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Ok, we've got stubs made for the following war horses, all of which contain no more information as yet than the fact that they were awarded a Dickin Medal: What is the template that will say each article is under the purview of this project? We need to start the talk page for each with the correct Wikiproject template. Chrisrus (talk) 14:09, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Olga (horse)
 * Regal (horse)
 * Upstart (horse)


 * See this project page for template WPEQ. I did Upstart for you. Our default is to tag everything "low" importance unless there is a really, really, really good reason to make it higher.  Whether you choose stub, start, etc., is based on standard criteria across most wikiprojects.  These look like stubs for now.  Enjoy!  Montanabw (talk) 21:21, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * A follow up thought. If you don't have a lot of biographical info on these horses (more than a paragraph) you might want to consider putting them all together into an annotated list, like we have at, for example, the lovely List of U.S. state horses.   Montanabw (talk) 21:23, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * There is little in them because they have just been created. Now they need to be filled up with info, like all other Dickin Medal Animals. We need to find more sources. Are you interested in this? Some people love to learn stuff about important war horses. Chrisrus (talk) 22:11, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Here, let's use this: http://books.google.com/books?id=zN_G37a9oo0C&dq=Olga+police+horse+bravery+dickin&source=gbs_navlinks_s This book seems to have a good amount of information about each of these three horses. Would you like to do one of the horses?  I could do another. They all seem to have been notable for not freaking out and continuing to do their crowd-control jobs despite bombs going off all around them and buildings falling down and windows smashing and people running around screaming, they maintained calm and were able to do what they were supposed so that people didn't get hurt or would be saved.  This I guess is not true of most horses, who tend to panic under such circumstances. Chrisrus (talk) 22:47, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Here's an article from The Independent that tells these horses' stories: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/remembered-at-last-animals-who-served-during-wartime-534491.html and is also just very nice to read if you are interested in heroic animals. Chrisrus (talk) 04:32, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm not being critical of them being stubs. I also hope someone at WPEQ is interested AND has time, which is the bigger proglem; at the moment, I have other fish to fry (so to speak) but it IS an interesting topic! (Dana: This of interest to you??)   Montanabw (talk) 17:21, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The articles might benefit from a merge (Equine Dickin Medal recipients ?) as there is more to talk about if they are lumped together. There is very little online background information on these horses besides what is mentioned in the Dickin Medal source (would have to dive into print! 8(AHH). Froggerlaura ribbit 18:30, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Have you seen the references that I posted earlier? There is more than enough for a short article on each of these three horses in them, and there may be more information available. I'll see about expanding them eventually if I have to, but I was hoping to concentrate on the non-horses. Chrisrus (talk) 18:42, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The above sources will probably not provide enough info beyond two paragraphs about the actual horses (the newer newspaper sources just mimic the older ones). Most of the text in the books is providing background about the state of the community during wartime and only 5-6 sentences are about the horses directly or their actions. There is no approximate age of the horses, background history or anything after the medal ceremony (I've looked for this info using the usual suspects and the press was unusually vague even for the time). The articles will not suffer from a merge to avoid unneeded repetition. Froggerlaura  ribbit 05:13, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Chrisrus, I think Froggerlaura is correct that we may want to merge these into a really nice annotated list. I tend to favor a really good single article over a bunch or little short ones with a lot of duplicative material.  We can redirect each animal's name to the list, and if more source material accumulates later, nothing stops us from spinning them back out into solo articles.  A good example of what I envision is the human List of Medal of Honor recipients. Nice introductory material, and then a chart that allows for individualization of each animal's accomplishments.  If everyone is on board with this idea (Chrisrus??) I would be willing to help with the effort, and I also know a non-WPEQ member who is pretty good at list articles, having a couple FLs under his belt.     Montanabw (talk) 19:04, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

If we fill out the annotated list on the bottom of the article Dickin Medal, that would be good and quite like what you describe above.

Please allow me to try to convince you that there is nothing wrong with short articles. An article should be only as long as it should be and no longer. If that means it is short, I see that as success. There are many good short articles. Here's one example: Paddy (pigeon).

Also, if each of these horses has a similar story, that doesn't mean that they all have the same story that should or could be merged easily moved into one story or that a place could or should be easily found to present all three of them as one story.

I will try to fill out one of these new stubs to demonstrate how they might become good. If you still want to have all three deleted after that, ok, but we would have to start a deletion request now that someone has already created all three. Chrisrus (talk) 20:59, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't favor deletion, I favor merge and redirect. But if you want to improve one, that would be good to see what is possible. Open to discussion.   Montanabw (talk) 23:55, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Merged and wrote start article with background about the police force and each of the horses. Of the opinion that stubs should be used to make walls, not toothpicks. Pic coming soon- too tired at moment. Froggerlaura  ribbit 05:33, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Excellent. You were right, merging and redirecting was the best solution. I have tweeked it a little, and would ask that any reader of these words put it on their watchlist.
 * Should we move it to Olga, Regal, and Upstart? Chrisrus (talk) 17:54, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


 * No I like the title as is. Makes the medal/honor the big deal, which it is.  Nicely done, you guys, and you should nominate it for DYK, great photo for the main page!   Montanabw (talk) 19:17, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll try to nominate it soon (if anyone wants too, fine with me too). The pic unfortunately, I could not source adequately enough to determine if it was taken under Crown copyright (anyone know what IWA is?) so it is a fair-use photo. Froggerlaura  ribbit 20:31, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Dartmoor ponies
Hello, I've improved french article about the Dartmoor ponies, but it need photos of ponies rides - there's juste wild ponies. And I don't find on FlickR. Perhaps some of you have ? --Tsaag Valren (talk) 12:59, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
 * A little problem : try to do a google search with "Dartmoor Pony" and the three first pictures you'll find... are not Dartmoor ponies. That's perhaps because the first two are considered as valuable images of Dartmoor ponies. But they aren't. First one is a skewbald or a splashed white (forbidden coat colors by Dartmoor stud-book), second one is a Shetland pony not a Dartmoor... that's because there are free roaming Shetland ponies, too. I've changed the categorise of these images, but for the "valuable image", I don't know how to do. Someone of you can take a look ? Thanks =) --Tsaag Valren (talk) 21:38, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
 * See if User:ThatPeskyCommoner or User:Richard New Forest will respond to an email -- they are the two UK members who MIGHT have access to the real thing! They haven't been real active lately, but I've friended both on Facebook, so maybe I can send them over here to peek.  Montanabw (talk) 23:11, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Being on Dartmoor, i'll see what I can find.... OwainDavies (about)(talk) edited at 06:30, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Many thanks ;) --Tsaag Valren (talk) 07:18, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Reference desk query about riding acoutrements
Could anyone help please with a query that I posted on the Miscellaneous Refdesk: WP:RD/M? I seem to have stumped the resident polymaths! Alansplodge (talk) 15:30, 21 July 2013 (UTC)


 * On it. Thanks (FYI Alan, this is the best place to post these to get an answer, not everyone watchlists our Equestrianism article).  Montanabw (talk) 18:48, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Death date in infobox for named horses
Infobox named horse now has a death_date parameter; see, for example, use in Sergeant Reckless, Joe Reed II or Jet Deck. Please feel free to add it to other articles using this infobox. For full DMY/ MDY dates, you can use death date or death date and age to encode the value; see example in Moon Deck. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:05, 28 July 2013 (UTC)


 * We also have {{tl|{{Infobox thoroughbred racehorse}}. Do these boxes dovetail?  And, for all at WPEQ, I am wondering if we should rename this one to "infobox named racehorse" to accommodate the Standardbreds and Quarter horses, but then get rid of all the racing stat parameters in infobox named horse.  Thoughts?  (Don't change anything more yet, Andy, while we sort out what we need).  Also, I don't think we need the species microformat on named horse infobooxen (unless, perhaps, hidden completely if computer stuff requires it?)  I'm going to cross-post this at WP Horse racing, as they will also have concerns. Montanabw {{sup|(talk)}} 18:36, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Sanitation for modern horse-drawn vehicles
Please see Reference desk/Humanities (version of 16:19, 30 July 2013). —Wavelength (talk) 16:32, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Subgenera
There seems to be inconsistency in how equid subgenera are handled. On one hand we have Asinus, which covers the taxa therein. On the other hand we have Hippotigris, which somewhat confusingly redirects to zebra, which appears to be an unnatural grouping. Personally, I'd prefer that a Hippotigris article was created. Also, an Amerhippus article could be nice. Perhaps even Equus (subgenus) could be better off with an article. FunkMonk (talk) 11:39, 3 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm all for cleanup and consistency. For helpers, I think the best people to run this overall issue past are the ones who edit evolution of the horse, where there appears to be some knowledge on taxonomy and the extinct subgenera.I also suspect most of us here will applaud anyone who feels capable of tackling cleanup in those areas, as the most active members of WPEQ are neither taxonomists nor paleontologists, so any work there is all to the good.  I'd say be bold with the extinct creatures that need articles, but do remember WP:RS, WP:V and WP:MOS and all.  But, if you want to get into the extant creatures (horses, asses, zebras) we'd appreciate a heads up, (and anything on the extinct-in-historical-times Tarpan, another dramafest).  I have no idea why the taxonomy stuff is such a dramafest on WPEQ, but it seems to be.  Montanabw (talk) 21:55, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I can take care of Amerhippus, but I could imagine Hippotigris and Equus would be somewhat controversial, since they have been redirects for so long. FunkMonk (talk) 22:14, 3 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Maybe explain what you want to do at Equus (genus) and see what happens. Most of us WPEQ types probably have it watchlisted, but more of the taxonomy folks may also be there.  As for Hippotigris and Zebra, ditto. I used to watchlist the zebra articles, but dumped them after a bit, I think that WPEQ in general is a bit remiss in our deep dedication to the zebra... so if you find those who care at the particular articles themselves, that may be the best place to discuss the issue (grin).  The evolution article has some dedicated editors and they may also be willing to offer help.  Montanabw (talk) 23:01, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

A ticket to insanity or a great idea?
This discussion] raised for me a question of whether we should create something like Glossary of slang with equestrian roots. Could be fun. Or maybe I'm nuts and it would be a "drahmahzfest." Thoughts all? Montanabw (talk) 22:46, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

The news from french wiki
Hello all. In this time of holidays, here are some news about our work on the fr-wiki :


 * fr:Bardot (équidé) => Hinny is featured article since may, 9
 * fr:Anglo-normand (cheval) => Anglo-Norman horse featured since may, 19
 * fr:Anglo-arabe => Anglo-Arabian since june, 2 (perhaps it need a distinction between french anglo-arab and others)
 * fr:poney landais => Landais pony since june, 20
 * fr:Cheval corse => Corse horse since june, 28 (this one is a short translation)
 * fr:Étienne Beudant => (don't exist in english... an incredible dressage man called "the sorcerer"), since july, 19.

Soon : Dartmoor pony, Pintabian, Winged horse (in french fr:cheval ailé is different from Pegasus but in english Winged horse redirect to Pegasus), fr:Cheval d'Erlenbach (Swiss ancient breed, no article in en:wiki) and Kentucky Mountain Saddle Horse, translated to improve my english level (article reviewed in english by Dana Boomer it seems) Now we have a team work for Hanoverian horse (somebody can say me how many hannoverian horses there's in the United States ?) --Tsaag Valren (talk) 13:16, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

The usage of is under discussion, see talk:Rousillon (horse) -- 70.24.244.158 (talk) 04:47, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

He's baaaaaakkkk...
The guy who is obsessed about stallions and castration is back. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Stallion#Hopefully_moving_on_-_to_a_more_objective_and_correct_.28true.29_article...) WPEQ members may wish to watchlist stallion. Montanabw (talk) 06:04, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Dales pony
Re Dales Pony. The Dales pony society has asked me to contact you regarding editing in particular the image used to represent the Dales. I have plenty of images that can used on free license that are a much better example of the breed than the currently used one but am unsure how to go about editing/asking for its change. I've ended up here where it says to ask questions so I am. I hope I've done this right, Many thanks Anna Pennell Dales Pony Society Annapennell (talk) 06:58, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Anna! If you look at the Commons category (just click the link) for Dales ponies, you can see all of the images we currently have here on Wikipedia to use. If the Dales Pony society would like to release more/better images for use in the article, we would love that! They need to be released under free-use, which means that they are permanently released for any use, including commercial re-use, modification, etc. There is an upload page on Commons that walks you through the steps of uploading an image, although it can be a little confusing at times, so please don't hesitate to ask questions. I'm running late at the moment, but wanted to give a quick reply. If you have further questions, please let us know. It's awesome that you approached us, thanks so much for that! Dana boomer (talk) 11:52, 25 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Agreed, and welcome, Anna!  Montanabw (talk) 16:17, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Thankyou! I will attempt to work through that at some point this weekend Annapennell (talk) 11:56, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Just to add I've managed to upload two images so far to the commons category for the Dales Pony and that seems to have worked ok! How would I now go about asking for the reference image of a Dales Pony to change to either of those images (preferably the mare and foal as she is our current breed champion so a good representative of a Dales Pony). Many thanks Annapennell (talk) 12:10, 27 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi Anna. This is the encylopaedia that anyone can edit, so you can make the change yourself, but if you prefer, if you maybe just reply here with the links to the different options.  You can either insert the picture here by putting two square brackets either side of the file name from commons like this  [[File:Picture.jpg]] , or copy the whole web address from commons, with one square bracket each side like this   , and one of us can help you.  OwainDavies (about)(talk) edited at 13:10, 27 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Owain is correct, Anna. Perhaps, if you'd prefer, just post on the talk page of the Dales Pony article?  That way it will pull in any editors actively working on that article who aren't WPEQ members (I doubt there are any others, but just in case...)   Montanabw (talk) 22:58, 27 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Dropping in the two images uploaded by Anna. To be honest, I like the mare image (and it's facing left, as is preferred for a lead image), but it's cluttered, with the foal, the person in the background, and the ribbons obscuring the mare's face. The stallion image is better, and shows the breed's movement, although I'm still not sure I like it as a lead image. The perfect lead image (that would be awesome to have on every article) has a horse, facing left, standing (not moving), without tack, with a neutral background and no clutter. Sometimes you come across an image that makes you go "wow" that is an exception (we had a gorgeous one in the Haflinger article for a while where the horse was cantering at liberty, but it was later deleted for licensing issues). Just my thoughts. Dana boomer (talk) 23:28, 27 September 2013 (UTC)


 * The stallion is gorgeous. Can we insert him as one of the earliest images in the body text?  Our lead image meets the standard, and tho' not a show horse, he's appealing.  I agree there are problems with the mare and foal image being cluttered; she's lovely, but hard to sort out; can we use the image later in the article, perhaps?  Anna, we want to work with you here, thoughts all?  Montanabw (talk) 02:46, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

salvage a template until we can tweak
Pitke had a good project that got dropped a few years back, IMHO, the template is worth salvaging and completing to add to the equine coat color articles. Thoughts, all? Montanabw (talk) 03:09, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Could we just have them dump it back into Pitke's userspace (where it was originally) until someone has a chance to work on it? Dana boomer (talk) 11:42, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I see that as a last-chance salvage, I think if it stays in the mainspace, we might remember it's there!   Montanabw (talk) 00:35, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Infobox horse coat has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. eh bien mon prince (talk) 12:08, 27 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Looks like the template has been spared. I just went over and fiddled with it some, created a sample, and, for experimental purposes, put it in at Gray (horse).  I also pinged Pitke (the creator) about my changes.  Comments and thoughts welcome at template talk! Template:Infobox horse coat (see history for my changes), Template talk:Infobox horse coat  Montanabw (talk) 03:29, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Alert to discussion at WP Horse racing
Horse infobox discussion. Pinging WPEQ members who work on horse "biographies": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Horse_racing#Do_we_have_a_problem.3F Montanabw (talk) 02:40, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Move and disambiguation discussion
Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Thrush_(horse)#Requested_move   Montanabw (talk) 18:55, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

""
The usage of is under discussion, see Talk:Mustang horse -- 65.94.78.70 (talk) 09:12, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanking Writ Keeper
For the MOST PERFECT userbox EVER! Montanabw (talk) 23:00, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Notability things
Oh ye who are more knowledgeable im such matters, pray peek hence and share the WPEQ wisdom forth. Bazinga. --Pitke (talk) 04:57, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Anyone speak Spanish?
Need help figuring out what is going on with the Spanish Government's Stud farm program. See Talk:Yeguada Militar de Jerez de la Frontera where I posted a longish piece on the need to accurately update the article. Montanabw (talk) 04:30, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Categories discussion
Friendly discussion on reorganizing the horse breeding categories here if anyone wants to comment: Category talk:Horse breeding and studs  Montanabw (talk) 23:33, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Someone please explain in plain terms this racing thingy
The post times are as follows: Saturdays at 7:00 pm; Sundays at 6:00 pm; and featured Wednesday in the meet at 6:30.

I figured that "post time" is the scheduled beginning of the racing event (i.e. when the loudspeakers say WELCOME TO THE GENERAL VALLEY DOWNS and soon after that they bring out horses for heat 1. Now. Featured? Meet? --Pitke (talk) 17:31, 20 December 2013 (UTC)


 * In that context, it's the time that the first race STARTS (not when the announcer does the "Welcome to the Upsand Downs yada, yada, yada" part), but post time is also the time that each individual race starts, ("Post time for the 3rd race is 3:30 pm") and in that context, the time that you can no longer place a bet for that race. In USA flat under-saddle racing (I don't know squat about harness racing or steeplechasing), we call each individual event where the horses race around the track a "race", not a "heat" -- a "heat" over here is usually used in the sense of horses running multiple times in a day (or a weekend) in both a preliminary qualifying race and then a final one, which is generally not done in flat racing (I don't know if they still do heats in harness racing, like I say, I know next to jack squat about that).  We can have a "dead heat" which is a tie. "Featured" is (I think) just a fancy way of saying, "this is the big special thing of the day that we are really promoting."  A "meet" is generally the multi-weeks that a given track is open at one time before people move on to the next track and the next "meet."  (the "fall meet" at Keeneland, for example, might run a month and meets at places like Belmont Park might go for 2-3 months, versus the whopping whole four days over two weekends of the "fair meet" in metropolitan Great Falls, Montana - LOL!).  See North American Thoroughbred horse racing terminology for more - or ask Froggerlaura at WP Horse racing, she's the USA guru. Hope this helps?  Montanabw (talk) 19:21, 20 December 2013 (UTC)


 * So, loudspeakers have already said "one two three--" and post time is when they say "--drive" (well that's what they say in Vermo anyways >.>) i.e. the literal beginning moment of each heat race? Oh okay. And the daily post time is simply the moment that day's first he-- uh, race is to begin? So, "featured Wednesday"? But "in the meet"? This, uh, unboggled my mind a bit! So thanks. Although this does nothing to my translation trouble with "harness racing" but that's something that's just gonna... Americans can't you just please make it clear whether you mean pacers or trotters? Pretty pretty please? ÓnÒ Ok ok I'm going now. Promise. --Pitke (talk) 19:46, 20 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes and No. Yes "daily post time" is post time for the first race of the day. No, it's not the instant the race starts - it's the time that the horses are all just about ready to load in the gate (in a flat race) and the betting windows stop taking bets on that race.  (If you can't figure out something about America, follow the money, then it makes perfect sense!  ;-P  )   In flat racing, the post time is officially marked on the tote board, but as a courtesy the announcer says "the horses are at the post," which is when they begin loading them into the starting gate, which takes a couple minutes before the race begins. If you are talking about harness racing, I have no idea the precise moment post time occurs, but I suspect that the "you can't bet on this race after post time" is the standard there as well.  I don't know if it's when the car starts moving, or what because I've never seen a live harness race, and only a very few on TV. BTW, here is a clip of America's most famous harness race: The Hambletonian.  Here is a link to a recent flat race that shows much of the pre-race nonsense and the actual announcer on the track (who is a rather entertaining fellow):  Notice the thing that says "MIN" at the top of the screen, at about 3:12 on the tape they announce it's 4 minutes to post and then jump the tape ahead (past post time) to the loading part (which is AFTER post time).  Does this help?   Montanabw (talk) 01:15, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Do we add this to the WPEQ tree?
It exists. No further comment: WikiProject My Little Pony. Montanabw (talk) 06:14, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

AN AfD of interest
Attempted deletion at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romulus_(donkey). FYI
 * I really think we need an Equine world records page, where we can merge all of these stupid little stubs on animals that are only notable because they grew (or didn't). There are at least half a dozen of them floating around out there, none of them above start class, and if we combined them all we might actually be able to get a decent B-class article out of them. Dana boomer (talk) 19:28, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I wonder if there would be any wisdom to fastest time, highest jumper, etc. I think you might be right, the question is how many of these ARE floating around?  Should we generate a list here and other WPEQ members/stalkers can add to it?  I'll pop in the ones I know of below.  Montanabw (talk) 19:21, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Added a few more below. I would have sworn there were a couple more, but I can't seem to find them at the moment. I may be thinking of the cloned horses articles, which is another suite that could easily be merged and combined with an overall discussion of equine cloning. Dana boomer (talk) 01:55, 3 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Romulus_(donkey) - MTBW
 * Thumbelina (horse) - MTBW
 * Sampson (horse) (largest horse) - DB
 * Black Beauty (horse) (smallest horse) - DB
 * Huaso (horse) (high jump) - DB

Extracting pics
Someone can extract all the horse engravings from this document ? http://books.google.fr/books?id=Y0BOAAAAYAAJ&dq=Old%20English%20Black%20horse&hl=fr&pg=PA145#v=onepage&q=Old%20English%20Black%20horse&f=false It would take me hours and hours while a designer can do it in minutes --Tsaag Valren (talk) 11:59, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I can do that. There's a better version of that book here. Do you want (1) all the pictures (2) all the animal pictures or (3) all the horse pictures? And do you want them sent to you (if so please email me to give me your address), or uploaded to commons (that's the only time-consuming bit)? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 13:11, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Many thanks to you ! --Tsaag Valren (talk) 13:25, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I've seen basically some interesting horse picture (Old English black, Norman horses, etc...) . Perhaps other pics would be useful for other project ? --Tsaag Valren (talk) 13:28, 13 February 2014 (UTC)


 * If they are PD images, straight to commons would be great for all of us!  Montanabw (talk) 19:52, 13 February 2014 (UTC)


 * It is much easier to extract them from here (just right click and save as) than from a PDF: https://archive.org/stream/farmerscabinetam10phil#page/n7/mode/2up FunkMonk (talk) 20:10, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I've forgotten to answer a question above, of course it's for commons, this document is public domain. And the engravings are high-quality --Tsaag Valren (talk) 22:08, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Navbox dramahz
Discussion consolidated here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Agriculture, concerning edits made by this user on Feb 12 and some on Feb 11. Montanabw (talk) 20:38, 12 February 2014 (UTC)


 * And more drama here: Template_talk:Horse_breeds_of_France.  Montanabw (talk) 19:41, 14 February 2014 (UTC)


 * New drama: Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_February_14.   Montanabw (talk) 22:16, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Popular pages tool update
As of January, the popular pages tool has moved from the Toolserver to Wikimedia Tool Labs. The code has changed significantly from the Toolserver version, but users should notice few differences. Please take a moment to look over your project's list for any anomalies, such as pages that you expect to see that are missing or pages that seem to have more views than expected. Note that unlike other tools, this tool aggregates all views from redirects, which means it will typically have higher numbers. (For January 2014 specifically, 35 hours of data is missing from the WMF data, which was approximated from other dates. For most articles, this should yield a more accurate number. However, a few articles, like ones featured on the Main Page, may be off).

Web tools, to replace the ones at ~alexz/pop, will become available over the next few weeks at popularpages. All of the historical data (back to July 2009 for some projects) has been copied over. The tool to view historical data is currently partially available (assessment data and a few projects may not be available at the moment). The tool to add new projects to the bot's list is also available now (editing the configuration of current projects coming soon). Unlike the previous tool, all changes will be effective immediately. OAuth is used to authenticate users, allowing only regular users to make changes to prevent abuse. A visible history of configuration additions and changes is coming soon. Once tools become fully available, their toolserver versions will redirect to Labs.

If you have any questions, want to report any bugs, or there are any features you would like to see that aren't currently available on the Toolserver tools, see the updated FAQ or contact me on my talk page. Mr.Z-bot (talk) (for Mr.Z-man ) 05:04, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

An invitation
Hello, Please note that Rare breed (agriculture), which is within your project's scope, is This week's article for improvement (until Sunday the 16th inclusively). A few Wikipedians are collaborating to improve the article, but we are missing content on horses! Anyone who sees this message is welcome to join our efforts. No need to be an expert. Any edit that helps improve the article is welcome! Thank you, Madalibi (talk) 05:49, 13 March 2014 (UTC), on behalf of the TAFI team

MMM at FAC
For those interested, Featured article candidates/Mucho Macho Man/archive1. I co-nominated the FAC adding and, who also worked on this article. At least one reviewer with a general knowledge of horses would be welcome as a reviewer! Montanabw (talk) 19:50, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Defining "cloned horse"
I just removed Gem Twist and Sapphire (horse) from, but now I'm second guessing myself. Is a cloned animal an animal created via cloning or an animal which has been cloned (i.e., served as the model for a clone)? These horses fell under the latter criterion, unlike the remaining members of that category. But if it's intended to have both types, go ahead and revert me. --BDD (talk) 21:32, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Floating a horse's teeth
There is an active discussion at Reference desk/Language (version of 16:18, 25 April 2014). —Wavelength (talk) 16:58, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Article about "geriatric horses"
Hello. I've created, in french, an article about geriatric horses and their management. It is primarily for education, many people here in France adopting older horses to prevent their slaughter but do not know at all take care... and it does not exist (to my knowledge) a french book to explain. So I used many sources of American Universities (translation is a little difficult for me) in order to source this article. here it is : https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vieillesse_du_cheval. The title is a bit tricky to translate, perhaps simply something like "old horse" ? It can be a very useful item for anyone seeking information specifically to manage a horse more than twenty years, instead of having to search through items such as "horse feed", "shoeing", "worming", etc. --Tsaag Valren (talk) 16:48, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
 * PS : There is no photo on commons and Flickr for teeth of old horses. Does one of you has a horse more than twenty years to take a picture of his teeth ? --Tsaag Valren (talk) 16:53, 23 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes I DO. In fact, I have access at the moment to some horses over 30 years old too.  Stay tuned, I shall see what I can do!  I like your idea.  As I do not speak French and machine translation of French is even worse than German, would you like to play with putting your article into basic English in this sandbox? I think this is a GREAT idea!     Montanabw (talk) 19:33, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Montana I love your enthusiasm ! --Tsaag Valren (talk) 20:52, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Translation is done ! --Tsaag Valren (talk) 18:09, 26 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Yay and thanks - anyone here is welcome to go play in the sandbox linked above and start to source and clean up phrasing. Tsaag, I got some images of the teeth of a 29-year old horse the other day, haven't uploaded yet (want to groom up the horse and get more photos, of a 32 year old horse that I have access to at the moment. Sit tight!  Montanabw (talk) 07:14, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay ! --Tsaag Valren (talk) 14:08, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Have a number of good photos, will take some time to upload, as I am traveling at the moment. But stay tuned! Montanabw (talk) 08:57, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Leaflet For Wikiproject Equine At Wikimania 2014
Hi all,

My name is Adi Khajuria and I am helping out with Wikimania 2014 in London.

One of our initiatives is to create leaflets to increase the discoverability of various wikimedia projects, and showcase the breadth of activity within wikimedia. Any kind of project can have a physical paper leaflet designed - for free - as a tool to help recruit new contributors. These leaflets will be printed at Wikimania 2014, and the designs can be re-used in the future at other events and locations.

This is particularly aimed at highlighting less discoverable but successful projects, e.g:

• Active Wikiprojects: Wikiproject Medicine, WikiProject Video Games, Wikiproject Film

• Tech projects/Tools, which may be looking for either users or developers.

• Less known major projects: Wikinews, Wikidata, Wikivoyage, etc.

• Wiki Loves Parliaments, Wiki Loves Monuments, Wiki Loves ____

• Wikimedia thematic organisations, Wikiwomen’s Collaborative, The Signpost

For more information or to sign up for one for your project, go to: Project leaflets Adikhajuria (talk) 15:36, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Équitation en France => Horse riding in France
Hello again, before the next world equestrian games in Normandy we have done a big teamwork for article about horse riding in France. I think that in these times of football such article is therapeutic ;) By the way, we improved Palomino and The Black Stallion. And I've started an article on the subject that I studied at the university, the horse in Brittany, with a lot of mythology. Happy reading (with a good translator) If you're in the area for the World Equestrian Games 2014, I'm next. --Tsaag Valren (talk) 00:08, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
 * A cultural minute about horses in Brittany : we have a very curious Christian tradition, inspired from celtic rites from antiquity (i'm studying this).

=> The loss of a horse is a tragedy for a family of farmers, and before the arrival of veterinary medicine, there are few ways to protect themselves. This is why the Britons appeal to many saints : Eloi (against the maladies), Gildas (fertility), Hervé, Nicodemus, Herbot, Cornely and Vincent; when the pardons aux chevaux (pardon of horses). Brittany Solomon (857-874) is considered a patron saint of horsemen status it has certainly achieved through its military role in the cavalry of Brittany117. These pardons mingle sacred traditions and profanes108. Pilgrims have little distance they travel and the animal to bless. Competition even between pardons. It is a festival dedicated to horses, it is forbidden to do work that day. It brings the whole village and has an important function identitaire. Its roots are very old, swimming horses as a rite of fertility are attested in multiple regions of the world, including celtics countries. Most pardons horses are organized on June 24 or July, day of the relics of St. Eloi or the feast of Saint John. They correspond to important moments of celtic121 calendar. On this occasion, the horses are well fed and "toilettés".

Anatole Le Braz testify that we had to do three laps of the horse sanctuary, before forcing them to bow to the image of saint123. The owner of the animal makes an offering: silver, horseshoe or more frequently handle horsehair. At Gourin, it gives the tail of his horse124. After the service, the priest blesses the animal and sometimes offer a piece of blessed bread124. A procession starts at the statue of the saint, or the portant125. Water is everywhere in the rite itself, it may be watering ears, genitals, buttocks or the hooves in a fountain to invoke healing, protection or the birth of a colt126. Swimming or jumping a river correspond to a fertility rite, sometimes accompanied by projections on place121. Races and cavalcades may accompany, as well as the lighting of a bonfire127. These races are an opportunity for young people to compete and to win in the village reputation122: it is not uncommon for them to conclude on meetings then mariages128. On the sidelines of forgiveness, the discussion focuses on the merits of each horse. Young children can learn to riding for the first fois129.

This rite is so popular that Quistinic, attendance of forgiveness in July requires the construction of a new fountain in the nineteenth century88. Forgiveness horses been a progressive folklore. In the 1950s, he began to take the form of a spectacle for tourists. In the 1960s and 1970s, tractors and other machines replace horses125. In Saint-Eloy, forgiveness of Ascension Day always attracts faithful from throughout France. It is the same in St. Péver, where since 1888, horses bathe in a pool88. Solomon Britain still has its own forgiveness Chapel Plouyé117. Many chapels votive owners horses124. --Tsaag Valren (talk) 00:16, 13 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Fun piece! Do you mean "blessing of the horses"? or "Forgiveness"? ("Pardon" implies forgiveness from sin or wrongdoing) Oh, how I wish I could be there, but I do hope you get to watch and have fun!  Tell me what you think of the reining.  Montanabw (talk)  04:34, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes it's a blessing for the horses, but in french it's called a "pardon" =) About the reining, I know nothing ! But there's a few western riding in my area. (add : Reining in Brittany with the local draft horse breed, looks fun !--Tsaag Valren (talk) 10:01, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
 * =:-O Oh dear!  That isn't exactly what we prefer!  Quarter Horses, the most common breed used for reining, have powerful hindquarters, but are light horses that are quite nimble, and the smaller ones are often the best.   Montanabw (talk)  22:55, 13 June 2014 (UTC)


 * There's no Quarter horse breeding in Brittany ! Mainly Bretons horses, often chestnut sabinos, and a few Haflinger, Connemara and Dartmoor ponies. Arabians horses for endurance riding, too (see : fr:Cheval_en_Bretagne. And as reining is not widespread, riders ride the horses they find ;) --Tsaag Valren (talk) 23:47, 13 June 2014 (UTC)


 * The American Quarter Horse was basically created by crossing Thoroughbreds on local cow ponies. They are kind of a short Thoroughbred with very muscled hindquarters.  They also race them over short distances; 440 yard is a quarter of a mile, hence the name.  Here in Montana, you can't go a mile without running across several, they are what the Haflinger is to Germany, I think.  this reining trainer is the best of the best.   Montanabw (talk)  04:01, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Of interest
Issue at ANI that may be of interest to project members: Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents. Montanabw (talk) 18:33, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Horses with bags on their heads
Can anyone shed any light as to what's going on here? Two of the horses in this field have cotton hoods completely blocking their eyes and ears. They're not the protective type used in racing with the mesh holes over the eyes and ears, they're clearly sensory deprivation hoods, and they're carefully tailored around the ears so someone has obviously gone to some effort and not just slipped a couple of pillowcases over their heads. None of the other horses in the field have them, so this is presumably not the isolation field for horses with some kind of eye disease; it's England with a typically grey English sky so it's highly unlikely to be any kind of sun protection; it's adjacent to a fairly heavily used public footpath and within earshot of a busy rail line so presumably not a place to keep especially skittish or vicious horses who need the Abu Ghraib treatment to stop them biting the other horses. Neither of the horses seem remotely concerned by the hoods, and nor do any of their unhooded horsey friends in the same pasture.

If anyone knows what's actually being illustrated here, do feel free either to change the title to something more explanatory. – iridescent  10:51, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

The masks are for fly and gnat eye and ear protection, they are like looking threw a window screen at your house windows. I have a horse that last year when I purchased him had flystrike which means that flies had laid eggs in his eyes and the larva were crawling/living inside his nasal cavities causing him so much pain he had rubbed the skin off of his face. The horses can see threw the masks although I take mine off at night when they sleep in the pasture for an added measure of safety, imagine wearing sunglasses at night. The masks do provide sun protection like sunglasses which is important for horses with light colored eyes. The masks may help provide some degree of cancer protection. Please let me know if I did this right,I am 50 and not a tech person here trying to learn I want to update the Belgian draft page and setup one for the American Brabants SueJorgensen (talk) 16:59, 16 June 2014 (UTC)susanjorgensen


 * See also fly mask. The white mesh ones look like that. At the article linked, I actually have a photo I took shooting through a black fly mask.    Montanabw (talk)  19:28, 16 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks to both! Makes sense (although it begs the question of why only two of the horses in the field get to wear them). – iridescent 2  10:12, 12 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Horses are like people, insects bother some more than others. At my place, while my other horses would just swat flies with their tails, File:FlySheet1.jpg the horse in this photo absolutely freaked out with any bugs biting her little self, and instead of grazing on pasture would race into the barn to hide from the bugs, thus she lost weight and was uncomfortable. With the fly sheet on, she'd stay out and eat. If the bugs were really bad, I'd put sheets on all of them, but this is the one who'd need one first. (Sheets are not cheap, and horses tear them up a lot)  Montanabw (talk)  21:01, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Animal breed disambiguation
Wikipedia talk:Article titles may be of interest to editors here. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  23:16, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Here we go again
Another RM discussion at Talk:Mustang_horse. Montanabw (talk) 21:20, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

A draft at AFC needs help.
Draft:James Owen Lowe is a very short stub, but given the cited sources, is this horse trainer and judge possibly notable? Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 09:25, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

First Sw-1 horse tested in a french horse breed in Brittany
Hello ! A small news from brittany : since yesterday, the first horse from a french breed (a breton horse) has been tested (by an american laboratory) heterozygotous for the SW-1 gene. So, it's the first french horse breed that officially carry a splashed white gene. It happens that I know the person who made this discovery and that could get some great photos of the mare tested and her son.

Note : Splashed White = Balzan in french, but we use the italian word "balzano" (yes, we're complicated people !) Enjoy ! --Tsaag Valren (talk) 16:12, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
 * First article about the discovery (others will be published soon) : http://7seizh.info/2014/08/09/gene-balzano-officiellement-decouvert-chez-les-chevaux-bretons/
 * Photo of the tested mare


 * Very interesting! DNA tests are so fun to have!   Montanabw (talk)  06:32, 10 August 2014 (UTC)


 * The foal looks very splash, the mare File:Reine de Since.jpg looks far more what we call "sabino" over here, even if she tested SW-1 (which raises the question if splash is actaully one form of what we call "sabino" - who knows?). Montanabw (talk)  05:31, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Lurline Matson Roth and her horses
Hello. I have created a page about Lurline Matson Roth. According to the source I used, she competed in horse shows nationally in the US. I was wondering if any of you would be able to find out more about this--perhaps from back issues of The Chronicle of the Horse, or specific books--and expand that paragraph...She also owned Why Worry Farm in Woodside, California, and as a horsebreeding farm, I am not sure if it would be notable enough to have its own page--perhaps so, if the name of the farm was used in competitions. Two of her horses, Chief of Longview (apparently born at Longview Farm) and Sweetheart on Parade, apparently won national championships, but again, I am not sure where to find sufficient info about them to create their pages, or if they would be sufficiently notable for a page...I would guess they are if they won competitons, but...it would be great to hear what some of you think, and feel free to start those pages if you can. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:39, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal
Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Request for input at the reference desks
There is a question at the "Miscellaneous" desk that might benefit from your help: "Driving a team of horses". Thank you in advance! ---Sluzzelin talk  23:00, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Fieracavalli
I was at Verona on Sunday, and took a few photos. I've made a gallery here in case anyone is interested. The quality is very disappointing (it was a borrowed camera), but there are some unusual breeds, including a couple that are very new and one that is extinct. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 03:35, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Yay! Don't feel bad about quality, (we can't all be User:Ealdgyth!  I've been doing miracles with a suck-egg point and shoot for years! Looks like you are adding them as needed.  (You'd think they would groom some of these animals better for a fair, wouldn't you?)    Montanabw (talk)  22:28, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
 * LOL.. you should see some of the things that do NOT make it to wikis/sales/web... animal photography is great for creating god-awful out-of-focus crappy pictures... Ealdgyth - Talk 22:35, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
 * JLAN - they look great and definitely useful. Ealdgyth - Talk 22:35, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Quarter horses bred at the Waggoner Ranch in Texas
Hello. I wonder if some of you would help me expand this page I've created, especially by adding information about the quarter horses bred there. Some of the inline references I added may be useful for this. That could either be inserted in the 'history' section, or in a separate section about horses... It is a lot of work and I won't have time for this until quite some time (it already took me longer than expected to create this page about the ranch, but glad I did it). Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 05:14, 17 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Western Horseman magazine will be a good source for you. Might have to pay for some articles, but I am sure they've profiled the place.   Montanabw (talk)  01:42, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Quarter Horse Journal did a few articles on them also. And there is some stuff in Denhardt's works ... Ealdgyth - Talk 01:51, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Can you provide links or fuller info for ZigZig20? I'm not much up on QH stuff the way you are.  Montanabw (talk)  03:07, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm not an expert on quarter horses to be honest. That's partly why I posted this here: if you feel you are able to find more referenced info, feel free to expand the article. I'm also happy to read more references that you are able to find. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 05:25, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Irwin Molasky's horses
Could someone please add more referenced info about Irwin Molasky's horses? For example, he owned Kona Gold. I am not sure if his horses are still competing. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 12:18, 2 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Look him up as an owner on Equibase.com (or his farm name). They may have some info there.   Montanabw (talk)  17:25, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestion. It leads to no results.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:15, 2 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Hmmm. I dug around a little more on the site and starting from this I got these ( click some of the links and tabs to get at the good stuff):  Kona Gold's ownership group and searching for "Molasky" gets me this:  (shitloads of him in various partnerships). You can see that "Blue Gate Corp" or "Bluegate Corp" crops up a lot. (May be a good name to google along with "race horse" or "racehorse" - I got this and this - note they owned Dixie Commander for a time...)  I don't get horse names on equibase that way, but I can get stats saying, for example, that partnership X had 1 start in 2006. Then a Google search will often pop up a horse name, which can go back into equibase for a plug and chug.  Looks like Molasky went into partnerships a lot with the guy who trained Kona Gold - Bruce Headley.  You might have to find these horses and go through their races chart by chart to find Molasky. It's doable.  He owned a horse called Surf Cat as shown here (p, 16).  Hope that helps some.   Montanabw (talk)  03:17, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Friesians
Heads up that the Friesians-are-perfect editors appear to be poking around the Friesian horse article again. Anyone at WPEQ may also want to watchlist the article because I just inserted a (thoroughly sourced) genetic disorders paragraph which is sure to send people through the roof, seeing as how they don't even want to admit they have chestnut color in the breed. Montanabw (talk) 00:55, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Enormous problem with the fr version of 2013 meat adulteration scandal, and probably the english one too
Hello. Yesterday, a french TV show spoken about Wikipedia (50' and after) and took this page fr:Fraude à la viande de cheval de 2013 as an example of paid POV pushing, because in France this scandal is known as "Affaire Findus", but all references to Findus have been suppressed by an e-reputation agency. It's a really big problem and your english version 2013 meat adulteration scandal is, I think, affected too. --Tsaag Valren (talk) 17:09, 8 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi Tsaag! Do you have some reliable sources we can use to fix that problem? A word search in on "Findus" in our article appears to bring up accurate information, but you are in a better position to assess that. Can you let us know if there is a username affiliated with the e-reputation group?    Montanabw (talk)  23:13, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Ok, admins have been advertised with "CU" (I don't know what is it) ! --Tsaag Valren (talk) 17:35, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Montanabw <sup style="color:purple;">(talk) 22:35, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Call to c/e
Could a native speaker please look at Nordlandshest/Lyngshest? It's been long since I used equestrian English (and it was late and I'm semi brain dead thanks to new puppy)... --Pitke (talk) 13:12, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live!


Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

Note: To receive additional notifications about WikiProject X on this talk page, please add this page to WikiProject X/Newsletter. Otherwise, this will be the last notification sent about WikiProject X.

Harej (talk) 16:57, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Mustang or mustang... should we continue to capitalize it?
There is an Rfc on mustang/Mustang capitalization going on at Talk:Mustang where we would be grateful for input. This project is listed on the article talk page. Thanks. Fyunck(click) (talk) 11:05, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

A spot of diplomacy needed
There's this IP user who has, apparently in pure good faith, gone and added unrelated racing images on race track articles. Unfortunately I'm pulling a total blank on what to say to this user, other than "lurk moar", so please, can someone with even an ounce of patience and decorum go to User talk:64.134.146.127 and leave a message welcoming them to contribute but remind them that unrelated illustrations aren't really needed, and, well, whatever the heck to say about this choice... --Pitke (talk) 13:15, 24 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Looks like this IP hasn't edited since July. If s/he pops up again or reverts you, ping me and I'll go over and do so.  No need to stir the pot if they are long gone.  You can also post at [{WP:WikiProject Horse racing]] too.  Montanabw <sup style="color:purple;">(talk)  04:44, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Rollkur spotted ?
Hello, american and english (and other strange-languages-countries) friends ! I've worked on the fr:rollkur article - with a lot of scientific sources, and a lot of horrible words who give headaches in it :) I have a question... is this :



rollkur ? IMHA reins (in french we say "renes" are strained to force the horse in rollkur position. But I'm not sure.

Thanks. --Tsaag Valren (talk) 20:28, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
 * And other question : how did you say "hypertype" (this exageration of features, I give a link from my pinterest page as an exemple) in english ?


 * 2): exaggerated features, exaggeration of features. --Pitke (talk) 00:07, 15 January 2015 (UTC)


 * IN the US, we tend to say "hyperflexion" in regards to rollkur. Your pinterest page are "extremes" or "exaggerations" -  I'd say "extreme" when the sense is "very very very much the biggest/smallest/fattest"  and "exaggerated" when it is the feathered feet of a Gypsy horse or the dished face of an Arabian.   Montanabw <sup style="color:purple;">(talk)  09:37, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Ok ! Thank you. I've created a french article about "hypertype" but there's no equivalent about "exaggeration" ?--Tsaag Valren (talk) 18:51, 16 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Ah! I see where you are going!  I had not heard that term before for exaggerated traits, but it' a good one... in English, it looks like one can find the word "hypertype" used on some dog breeding forums, but here we more often use words like "over-bred" "exaggerated features," "genetic disorders" (i come cases) or less kindly, "freakish."  Good article and good concept that needs wider discussion.   Montanabw <sup style="color:purple;">(talk)  07:59, 18 January 2015 (UTC)


 * True, but overflexion in the heat of battle isn't Rollkur, it's just overflexion and being behind the bit! LOL!   Montanabw <sup style="color:purple;">(talk)  04:49, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Dales pony
Hello, I have just left a comment on the "talk" section of the Dales Pony page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dales_pony with regards to the image used. I've been asked by the Dales Pony Society to see if we can get the image changed as it is felt by breed experts to be a poor representation of the Dales Pony. I have uploaded a much better one to the commons from the society which we feel would represent the breed in a much more realistic manner. Would someone be able to take a look at it and advise if it could be changed or how we would go about doing it? Incidentally in the new RBST Watchlist issued last week the Dales Pony has now been re-catagorised back to Class 1 Critical with under 300 breeding females. https://www.rbst.org.uk/watchlist-2015 I can try to edit that in myself but I'm just working my way around the page so if someone else wishes too update the information we would be most grateful. (Annapennell (talk) 16:13, 26 January 2015 (UTC))


 * Answered there.  Montanabw <sup style="color:purple;">(talk)  06:16, 27 January 2015 (UTC)