Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rowing/Archive 4

Indoor rower for GA
As a high importance rowing article, please help it move toward GA standard. I've implemented a to-do list at Talk:Indoor rower.--Yeti Hunter (talk) 13:51, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Sculling
What is sculling? I guess it has to do with rowing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.111.161.202 (talk) 20:23, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Try the SEARCH facility. Motmit (talk) 20:27, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Coordinators' working group
Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.

All designated project coordinators are invited to join this working group. If your project hasn't formally designated any editors as coordinators, but you are someone who regularly deals with coordination tasks in the project, please feel free to join as well. &mdash; Delievered by §hepBot   ( Disable )  on behalf of the WikiProject coordinators' working group at 06:27, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Category for High School/Scholastic Rowing
Has there been any previous discussion on adding this category? I believe that this is an underrepresented group on the wiki and there is a long history in several parts of the country to support this.

--VASRA.Historian (talk) 14:46, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Article alerts
This is a notice to let you know about Article alerts, a fully-automated subscription-based news delivery system designed to notify WikiProjects and Taskforces when articles are entering Articles for deletion, Requests for comment, Peer review and other workflows (full list). The reports are updated on a daily basis, and provide brief summaries of what happened, with relevant links to discussion or results when possible. A certain degree of customization is available; WikiProjects and Taskforces can choose which workflows to include, have individual reports generated for each workflow, have deletion discussion transcluded on the reports, and so on. An example of a customized report can be found here.

If you are already subscribed to Article Alerts, it is now easier to report bugs and request new features. We are also in the process of implementing a "news system", which would let projects know about ongoing discussions on a wikipedia-wide level, and other things of interest. The developers also note that some subscribing WikiProjects and Taskforces use the  parameter, but forget to give a link to their alert page. Your alert page should be located at "Wikipedia:PROJECT-OR-TASKFORCE-HOMEPAGE/Article alerts". Questions and feedback should be left at Wikipedia talk:Article alerts.

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Thanks. — Headbomb {{{sup|ταλκ}}κοντριβς – WP Physics} 09:37, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)

Peer Review of Jesus College Boat Club (Oxford)
I have listed Jesus College Boat Club (Oxford) for peer review at Peer review/Jesus College Boat Club (Oxford)/archive1. All input welcome. BencherliteTalk 09:53, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Incidentally, this is now the project's first Featured Article. BencherliteTalk 18:37, 29 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Wohoo! Congrats to all involved. 09er (talk) 19:54, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Notability of Cambridge college boat clubs
Just to let you guys know, I've started a discussion here regarding notability of college boat clubs. It would be nice to have more contributions. Cheers. Quantpole (talk) 11:04, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Serious Editing
Much of the article on Rowing (Sport) is written with very poor English. Just glancing over it briefly, I have noticed numerous typos, issues with agreement, missing commas, incorrect tenses, run on sentences etc. If I were an English teacher, I would fail the kid who wrote this. Much of the wording is so bad that it either renders entire sections completely incomprehensible, or it distracts the reader so greatly that it is virtually impossible to focus on the content of the article. Disregarding the fact that much of the content of this article is in fact erroneous (I had to rewrite the section on anatomy of the rowing stroke because it made no sense and it was wrong), the mere prose that comprises this article is an embarrassment to the standards that Wikipedia professes to uphold. As a rower and frequent user of Wikipedia, I am deeply offended by the quality of this article. Unfortunately, I do not have the time to go through this article section by section and edit it for content and clarity, but I beg the members of the Wikipedia community to step up to the plate where I regrettably cannot. To anyone who values the reputation of Wikipedia as an institution, please go through this article line by line and improve this disorderly compilation of sentences into something that more than vaguely resembles the standard of professionalism Wikipedia tries so desperately to maintain. I thank anyone who attempts this daunting task. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.76.204.69 (talk) 21:57, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

GA Reassessment of Rowing (sport)
I have done a GA Reassessment of this article as part of the GA Sweeps project. I have found the article does not meet the current GA Criteria. My assessment can be found here. I have put the article on hold for one week pending work. I am notifying all interested projects and editors of this assessment. Should you have any questions please contact me on my talk page. H1nkles (talk) 18:00, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Frank Stout
I have created an article on rugby international Frank Stout, his father was William Stout (rower). Now William was such a rowing fanatic he is said to have given all his children names connected with the sport of rowing. Two are obvious, Percy Wyfold Stout and William Henley Stout; my problem is Frank. In all my rugby articles he has two names, either Frank Moxton Stout or Frank Moxon Stout or Frank Moxham Stout. Can anyone shed light on either middle name having a feasible connection to rowing. Thanks. FruitMonkey (talk) 21:04, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

GAN backlog reduction - Sports and recreation
As you may know, we currently have 400 good article nominations, with a large number of them being in the sports and recreation section. As such, the waiting time for this is especially long, much longer than it should be. As a result of this, I am asking each sports-related WikiProject to review two or three of these nominations. If this is abided by, then the backlog should be cleared quite quickly. Some projects nominate a lot but don't review, or vice-versa, and following this should help to provide a balance and make the waiting time much smaller so that our articles can actually get reviewed! Wizardman 23:39, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

WP 1.0 bot announcement
This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 03:51, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Sports Notability
There is discussion ongoing at Wikipedia_talk:BIO debating possible changes to the WP:ATHLETE notability guideline. As a result, some have suggested using WP:NSPORT as an eventual replacement for WP:ATHLETE. Editing has begun at WP:NSPORT, please participate to help refine the notability guideline for the sports covered by this wikiproject. —Joshua Scott (LiberalFascist) 03:40, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Saturday's Featured Article...
... is going to be Jesus College Boat Club (Oxford), to mark the last day of Eights Week. As we've got friends coming for the weekend, I'm unlikely to be able to keep an eye on the article on the day, so if a few extra people could add it to their watchlists and keep an eye out for sly vandalism or accidental errors, that'd be grand. The anti-vandalism patrol should be able to cope with the usual addition of rude words etc... This will be the first time that a rowing-related article has been selected as Today's Featured Article. Thanks, BencherliteTalk 09:23, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Halkett boat
The article Halkett boat was promoted to FA status by the editor who started it, and those who contributed heavily to it. It's an interesting article, but not especially encyclopedic.

According to the process of reassessing FA status, I'm leaving notification here, and inviting wider comment. Regards, Piano non troppo (talk) 09:31, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Rowing articles have been selected for the Wikipedia 0.8 release
Version 0.8 is a collection of Wikipedia articles selected by the Wikipedia 1.0 team for offline release on USB key, DVD and mobile phone. Articles were selected based on their assessed importance and quality, then article versions (revisionIDs) were chosen for trustworthiness (freedom from vandalism) using an adaptation of the WikiTrust algorithm.

We would like to ask you to review the Rowing articles and revisionIDs we have chosen. Selected articles are marked with a diamond symbol (&diams;) to the right of each article, and this symbol links to the selected version of each article. If you believe we have included or excluded articles inappropriately, please contact us at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8 with the details. You may wish to look at your WikiProject's articles with cleanup tags and try to improve any that need work; if you do, please give us the new revisionID at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8. We would like to complete this consultation period by midnight UTC on Monday, October 11th.

We have greatly streamlined the process since the Version 0.7 release, so we aim to have the collection ready for distribution by the end of October, 2010. As a result, we are planning to distribute the collection much more widely, while continuing to work with groups such as One Laptop per Child and Wikipedia for Schools to extend the reach of Wikipedia worldwide. Please help us, with your WikiProject's feedback!

For the Wikipedia 1.0 editorial team, SelectionBot 23:33, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

template rowing
Going to template:rowing does not show me documentation on the template. In particular, I wondered if there is a parameter for requesting a photo. What I get instead is template:rowing (sport), which is a list of other templates. So, documentation for the Wikipedia rowing template, please. Also, consider a photo request parameter. --DThomsen8 (talk) 12:31, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

New template Template:Student athlete
Feel free to help fill in Template:Student athlete by adding new articles or creating articles for redlinks.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:05, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Infobox:Rowing
Is it possible to work on making an infobox for Rowers. If you are interested please give suggested parameters and labels.--18:59, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Imperial College School of Medicine Boat Club
Can I have your opinion on this AfD? Chris Neville-Smith (talk) 12:59, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

WP Rowing in the Signpost
The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Rowing for a Signpost article as part of our special "Summer Sports Series". This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions, so be sure to sign your answers. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Have a great day. -Mabeenot (talk) 23:45, 17 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the invitation, but I don't feel that I'm active enough on rowing articles to respond, although if you're really pushed for comments I can probably find something to say about "my" FA (one of the two tagged as being within the project's scope). BencherliteTalk 11:40, 20 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Please add whatever comments you can at the interview page. There have been no responses so far. We'd like to feature WikiProject Rowing in time for the World Rowing Championships. -Mabeenot (talk) 17:31, 24 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Some replies added, but I really wonder whether it's worth featuring a dead project in the Signpost. BencherliteTalk 11:03, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree. The date on the previous section of this talk page is 2011. It seems the project, as such, is dead, even though a number of us are editing various articles on rowing that are on our watchlists. We would make a pretty poor show if we did appear on the Signpost. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  23:36, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

RfC on the use of flag icons for sportspeople
An RfC discussion about the MOS:FLAG restriction on the use of flag icons for sportspeople has been opened at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Icons. We invite all interested participants to provide their opinion here. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:56, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Portal:Sports is up for featured portal consideration
This is a courtesy message to inform the members of this project that I have nominated Portal:Sports for featured portal status. The discussion is at Wikipedia:Featured portal candidates/Portal:Sports. The featured portal criteria are at Featured portal criteria. Please feel free to weigh in.  S ven M anguard  Wha?  18:38, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Agecroft Rowing Club
This is a notification that the article Agecroft Rowing Club was nominated for deletion at Articles for deletion/Agecroft Rowing Club on 9 May 2013 (UTC). -   t  u coxn \ talk 04:01, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Rowing tank
Hey chaps, just knocked together a quick stub over at rowing tank. Any help expanding it (pictures especially) from someone with a bit more of a technical viewpoint would be superb. Cheers! Grunners (talk) 16:17, 30 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I'll try to remember to take pictures when I next go to the Durham rowing tank and add them to the article. Aloneinthewild (talk) 09:29, 31 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Cheers Aloneinthewild. We tend to only jump in ours in the winter months, so not likely to get a photo anytime soon. Grunners (talk) 23:32, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Calling international rowers with knowledge of Dutch rowing clubs and venues
Regarding the 2014 World Rowing Championships (see World Championship Regatta) on August 24-31, would anyone be interested in hosting an edit-a-thon to improve/create articles on the Amsterdam rowing facilities and Dutch rowing clubs? We are expecting an influx of many different nationalities, many of whom will be staying at rowing clubs in the area, not just Amsterdam. We were talking about doing something like this at the Bosbaan. Jane (talk) 06:54, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Kevin Coughlan (Rower)
Dear rowing experts: This old AfC submission will soon be deleted as a stale draft. Is this a notable rower? Should the article be kept? &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 14:46, 20 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Not notable as far as I can see. He doesn't appear on rowingone.com, a database for international rowers Aloneinthewild (talk) 21:16, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks; gone now...&mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 02:50, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal
Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:48, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Request for Comment
There is a Request for Comment about "Chronological Summaries of the Olympics" and you're invited! Becky Sayles (talk) 07:40, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live!


Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

Note: To receive additional notifications about WikiProject X on this talk page, please add this page to WikiProject X/Newsletter. Otherwise, this will be the last notification sent about WikiProject X.

Harej (talk) 16:56, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Women and The Boat Race
I see that this year there is going to be a women's race as part of "The Boat Races", in 29 days time, but our The Boat Race article only mentions this way down the article under The_Boat_Race. The logo on the official web page now includes an "S" on "RACES", not the version used in the article. I'm no expert on rowing (I just watch the race each year, along with the London Marathon, the Grand National and a bit of The Championships as the totality of my sports tv-watching outside the Olympics). Someone interested in rowing might like to update the article to reflect this year's changes, the addition of the women's race. Pam D  09:25, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
 * OK, now found The Boat Race 2015 which does discuss the women's race, but I still feel women need a bit more prominence in The Boat Race. Pam  D  09:42, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Hey Pam, the reason behind this is that the majority of information on the Women's boat races is in the article on the Henley Boat Races. The move to the tideway has complicated everything a lot, however. So I've decided to be as unbold as possible and have created a move discussion on the issue. Bosstopher (talk) 18:48, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Recent changes to the graphics for Template: Medal
There is a template talk page discussion regarding the graphics used for medalists in infobox medals tables occurring at Template talk:Medal. As this discussion is within the scope of WP:Rowing, you are invited to make your comments on the recent graphics changes there. Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:54, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

1980 World Rowing Championships
I'm working on the World Rowing Championships and have added the missing regattas, and am now adding those results tables that are missing (well, that said, I'm not filling them out completely, as I'm really only interested in New Zealand rowers, but it'll help others to have the outline there, and I've put all the necessary references in). Can somebody point me in the right direction for 1980 results, please? The usual sources draw a blank (FISA and Hickok) or was there something unusual going on, as Hickok lists lightweight men's results only?  Schwede 66  23:25, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Ah, it was an Olympic year. That leads to the related question that Hickok has lightweight men going back to 1974, but only the winners, and FISA doesn't list them. What's the situation there?  Schwede 66  23:30, 19 March 2016 (UTC)


 * I’m not sure whether lightweight events were considered as official championship events in the 1970s. You can find results on FISA's website in a different folder, just look for events like this one: (similar until 1980 AFAIK). Btw. all World Rowing Champs have complete podium lists at dewiki including references and rower names (in German notation). —MisterSynergy (talk) 15:39, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that was rather helpful.  Schwede 66  08:11, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Lead
I've just gone through the 44 World Rowing Championships and done a few things to the lead to achieve some sort of consistency:
 * add "nth" world championship to the bold part (this number was missing from many of the articles, and at some, it was wrong)
 * removed every wikilink to World Rowing Championships within the boldface as per WP:LINKSTYLE
 * made the prose compliant with MOS:DATERANGE

With this edit, you've just undone all those things for the 1975 article. Now I don't own any of the articles, nor do I say that what I've done is the only way that it could be done. And the double use of "World Rowing Championship" in the opening sentence that I introduced is, with hindsight, a clumsy sentence construction. But I'd like to see some discussion had and agreement reached now that all articles have consistent lead sentences if there is a desire to change things. There's a lot more work to be done, but I for one am not interested in working on something only for another editor to come along and undoing much work in a way that it departs from the manual of style. So can we perhaps work towards some agreement on how things should look like?  Schwede 66  08:11, 23 March 2016 (UTC)


 * We should avoid (a) using "World Rowing Championship" twice in one sentence (bad sentence construction) and (b) linking in bold (MOS:BOLDTITLE). So we need to expand the lead slightly. We should also not be linking "Great Britain" or "England" (WP:OVERLINK) (and personally I'd avoid using "Great Britain" since that is a geographical rather than a political entity in this context). How about something like this:


 * The 1975 World Rowing Championships were held at the Holme Pierrepont National Watersports Centre in Nottingham, England, between 24 and 30 August. It was the first time that the World Rowing Championships had been held in the United Kingdom, and the fifth time that FISA, the international rowing federation, had organised the championships. East Germany topped the medal table, winning 10 gold medals and 14 medals in total.


 * Thoughts? BencherliteTalk 09:54, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

I'd recommend not to include the numbering of the edition ("nth") in the title, since this scheme is typically not used by FISA itself and thus some kind of WP:OR. It is furthermore not easy to nonambiguously number the 1970s editions of some lightweight championships. There were, for instance, lightweight events in 1976 (three events at Lake Ossiach, similar as the 1980 edition in Hazewinkel), but there is no article 1976 World Rowing Championships yet. In 1978, lightweight events were held in Denmark in August, while open weight classes were held in November in New Zealand. Do we count one or two editions for 1978? —MisterSynergy (talk) 10:34, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Rowing notability guidelines
I think it's time to end rowing's conspicuous absence from WP:NSPORTS. Would appreciate comment on the following proposed notability guidelines for rowers and coaches:

Athletes involved in rowing/crew may be presumed notable if they fulfil any of the following:
 * 1) They have participated in the Olympic Games, Paralympic Games or World Championships,
 * 2) They have won a gold medal at any age-unrestricted FISA regatta,
 * 3) They have participated in a fully-professional competition.

Other figures may be presumed notable if they fulfil any of the following:


 * 1) They have coached many notable rowers (including at least one Olympic gold medallist or world champion) during the time of the athletes' notable accomplishments,
 * 2) They have been the official head coach of an Olympic or World Championship team,
 * 3) They have been credited as the originator of a major innovation in technique, style, equipment or governance,
 * 4) They have held the leadership of a national or higher level body governing the sport of rowing.

Participation at levels other than international competition is not presumed to confer notability. This includes figures involved at school, college/university, sub-national (state, province, etc) and national levels. Individuals may still be notable if they pass the General Notability Guideline. Clubs and other related organizations are presumed notable only if they meet the general notability guideline.

Cheers, --Yeti Hunter (talk) 05:02, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Agree Sander.v.Ginkel (Talk) 06:33, 26 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I'd certainly vote to reject if this was taken to NSPORTS. For one thing, mere participation in the Paralympics isn't currently enough for notability per the existing guideline (WP:NOLYMPICS); only medalists are accorded presumptive notability.  Secondly, what is a "fully-professional" rowing competition?  Thirdly, concerning the "other figures" section -- has this been tested against representative examples to ensure they would all meet the GNG?   Ravenswing   07:44, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Have their actually been any major innovations in technique and style in rowing in the past few decades? Brustopher (talk) 09:03, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * , that's why I want to discuss it here first ;)  Regarding your specific questions -
 * Agree paralympics probably requires a win or medal for presumption of notability, so remove "Paralympics" from the first criterion.
 * "Fully professional competition" I intended to refer to the old professional sculling races (now defunct except for some famous ones like Doggett's Coat and Badge). See e.g. Ned Hanlan. I included this in case there are professional scullers without articles, but agree this will probably cause confusion and it would be better to default to GNG in this case.
 * I believe the "other figures" criterion is worded well to capture notable individuals but exclude low-level coaches and bureaucrats. For example: Reinhold Batschi presently does not have an article, yet is a renowned coach in Australia, having been the official coach at five Olympics and directly involved with the coaching of many of Australia's most successful rowers. And as expected he easily passes GNG (see eg 1, 2, 3, 4, 5).
 * Innovations just in the last few decades include cleaver blades, composite oars and boats, major use of indoor rowers and telemetry, even the very idea of nationally co-ordinated rowing programs (which, incidentally, Batschi is also notable for pioneering in Australia). It is near-certain that there will be additional innovations in the future which we cannot now anticipate. It is equally possible that there are previous innovators who have as yet been overlooked for a Wikipedia article.
 * --Yeti Hunter (talk) 10:18, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

I'd let WP:GNG handle case 3 of other figures section, it's too vague to be useful. 4, is way too vague (what does leadership even mean?). How about has coached multiple Olympic or World champions (teams/individuals)? Simply holding a leadership role is not going to garner notability especially if over a short period of time and for a weaker country for which rowing generates less GNG coverage. MATThematical (talk) 05:34, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Another option for coaches would be


 * 1) They have been the official head coach of an Olympic or World Championship team composed of at least __ individual athletes,

This would prevent for example the head coach of teams that just send a few individuals from automatic notability. The number should probably be around 25 athletes if the same coach tends to coach both genders or 15 if there is typically a single coach for each gender. Again though we'd like to see you checked the notability of a random set of coaches from non medal winning teams who satisfied this WP:GNG who satisfied this requirement. MATThematical (talk) 05:34, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

RM notification 29 July 2024
Greetings! I have recently relisted a requested move discussion at Talk:Megan Marcks, regarding a page relating to this WikiProject. Discussion and opinions are invited. Thanks, — Sam Sailor 01:09, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

RFC on sports notability
An RFC has recently been started regarding a potential change to the notability guidelines for sportspeople. Please join in the conversation. Thank you. Primefac (talk) 23:09, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

“Vector training”
There is an article Vector training since 2009. It is basically unsourced, since the provided PDF (archive version) does not mention this term. I cannot find any other reference which is useful to describe what’s meant here. Does anyone know this “training method” and can provide a reference? —MisterSynergy (talk) 15:46, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Discussion at NSPORTS
Hello all. In an effort to finally resolve the never-ending and annoying GNG v SSG issue, I've proposed a revision of the NSPORTS introduction. You are all invited to take part in the discussion. Thank you. Jack &#124; talk page 06:20, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Wikiproject in meta
Hi. I´m thinking about create a Wikiproject about rowing in meta to better organize information in articles related to rowing around the world, no only in Spanish Wikipedia or English Wikipedia, a wikiproject to improve the subject in every language. What do you think? It´s possible? It´s interesting for you? Thanks 09:22, 5 April 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vanbasten 23 (talk • contribs)


 * This would be very interesting for me, and possibly for other users as well. Since actual work will still be done in local projects, it will probably be the best to provide a metawiki Wikiproject at which interested users can team up for bigger crosswiki activities related to the sport of rowing. There are already Wikiprojects at dewiki, enwiki, and wikidata (wikidata:Q18729867), as well as Portal pages in arwiki, dewiki, frwiki and itwiki (portals sometimes have a project-like character; wikidata:Q12357569). A new commons project could be useful as well. —MisterSynergy (talk) 09:11, 6 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi and, I would be also interested in participating in this project. Let me kwon if you decide to work on it or if more people become interested. Regards! --Carlos Molina Fisico (talk) 10:54, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
 * We can speak with the others projects, like dewiki and wikidata, but if we are only three... it´s imposible. Thanks. --Vanbasten 23 (talk) 11:22, 30 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Dewiki is me and one other user who basically edits dewiki only (with good output, though). Wikidata was me only until very recently, when Carlos fortunately joined there as well. So there is not a large crowd available unfortunately. Having a place to gather for cross-wiki activities would still be a good thing to have. Maybe this page or the rowing project at Wikidata could be used for this.
 * IMO there is enormous potential in the field of rowing results. In the long run I plan to have international rowing results available at Wikidata, suitable for (1) rower infoboxes and (2) rowing competition articles. Right now I have no clue how and whether this works in practice as well, and the main obstacle is the unclear legal situation about database imports (so don’t expect quick progress).
 * What I already accomplished until now in terms of rowing cross-wiki activities is a lot of worldrowing link fixes, interwiki synchronization (item mergers at Wikidata), a basic setup of all rowing biography items at Wikidata (events to come, organizations and venues as well), and corrections of all kinds of mistakes in different Wikipedias. There is still a lot to do, though, and more editors in this field would definitely be great to see… —MisterSynergy (talk) 12:03, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I see that you know the situation better than me, therefore it seems perfect to focus our efforts on this wikiproject. I usually edit in Wikidata and eswiki about articles of rowers and mainly clubs and competitions in Spain. Especially my specialty is the traineras. I wrote one book about the history of them. Also, i'm finishing a database with all the traineras competitions in history, although I have to look the relevance of the data. --Vanbasten 23 (talk) 15:24, 5 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Good to know. I see the many trainera rowing items at Wikidata, but since they are mostly from euwiki I have difficulties to get them sorted properly due to a lack of understanding. Translators do not perform well, unfortunately. I will come back to you in the next weeks to ask some questions… :-) —MisterSynergy (talk) 19:41, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I created most of the articles about competitions and clubs with trainera in 2010. In 2011 the euwiki started to translate this articles and the following year they were added to wikidata, but I did not do. I can improve the articles in wikidata if you tell me what are the necessary fields for each case (competitions, clubs, tools...). Thanks. --Vanbasten 23 (talk) 23:25, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Wrong seat order
I've posted something about wrong seat orders on Talk:Rowing at the 1972 Summer Olympics but it might not be on anybody's watchlist. Would be good if others could provide comment.  Schwede 66  17:38, 3 January 2018 (UTC)


 * I've commented there. --David Biddulph (talk) 19:51, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

1965 European Rowing Championships
I've drawn a blank in contemporary media why the East German women didn't show up to the 1965 European Rowing Championships; rather surprising since they came second in the medal ranks in 1963 and 1964 behind their Soviet counterparts. Please see Talk:1965 European Rowing Championships how I propose to report on that. Please discuss there.  Schwede 66  22:32, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

FISA database
There are problems with the FISA database, and I can fully understand that it's inevitable that there are mistakes when you've got tens of thousands of entries in a database. What I'm finding a tad annoying, though, is that there doesn't appear to be any real effort at FISA's end to straighten things out when you point out mistakes to them. To that end, I'm thinking of setting up pages that list those things that are possibly not correct. I'm thinking of creating two tables that everybody could add to:


 * 1) Database duplications, where there is more than one entry for one and the same person (e.g. IDs 11720 and 37304 cover the same person, with one of the names spelled incorrectly)
 * 2) Other database errors, where names are mis-spelled (e.g. Gerd Maye), people are missing (e.g. Ross Blomfield), or there are two people of the same name listed under the same ID (e.g. Matthew Baldino).

Good idea? What do others think. I've got a growing list for both of the above, and we might as well share those details / make them public. I've communicated almost all of what I've got to FISA, but there is little movement at their end.  Schwede 66  08:21, 1 December 2017 (UTC)


 * As long as database mistakes are persistent, this could be a good approach. Similar pages exist for larger databases such as VIAF and GND in various Wikipedia editions, but there is no page dedicated to FISA's database. We could also try to centralize communication efforts with FISA on such a page. —MisterSynergy (talk) 09:13, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Ok, I've started a page at WikiProject Rowing/FISA database errors. Is that the right way to record things? Can anybody think of better ways of doing it? The spreadsheet that you once sent me, MisterSynergy, isn't included yet; let's agree on the formatting of the tables first.  Schwede 66  17:39, 3 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Any feedback on what I've compiled so far?  Schwede 66  17:38, 3 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Uhm, I forgot to watch this page, thus I did not take notice of edits until now. Some comments:
 * The format of the page is okay IMO, although I do not know how it scales if we encounter more mistakes. Maybe we want to split the "other errors" section later, but this would not be a big deal.
 * The database was originally set up ~2000/2001, so results from the time before those years have been added manually; I wouldn’t expect them to be complete in any way, so I am not surprised to even see “missing profiles”.
 * Spelling of names is systematically complicated; they seem to use ASCII characters only, and for non-latin original names they sometimes have very creative transcriptions to English. For Wikidata I performed an automatic mix-and-match of (AFAIR) ~4000 rowers more than two years ago that allowed a lot of flexibility in name comparisons, otherwise it wouldn’t really have worked out (I also compared dates of births as a second parameter to avoid false-positives). Anyway, complaints about “spelling mistakes” can be listed of course, but I wouldn’t treat them with priority.
 * On Horvat, see de:Elena Horvat and de:Benutzer Diskussion:Geher. I also tried to get in contact with the Romanian rowing federation in this issue, but I did not receive any reply.
 * —MisterSynergy (talk) 18:39, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Yes, I spotted that discussion on Horvat; in fact I frequently refer to the relevant German bios as they are often far more detailed than English ones. Somebody (or a bunch of editors) is doing a really good job there.  Schwede 66  01:30, 4 January 2018 (UTC)


 * That is mostly User:Geher's merit, he wrote almost 75 % of the rowing biographies at dewiki. We unfortunately have only two editors working in the field of rowing systematically for a couple of years meanwhile.
 * On the FISA database error page: Do we want to include errors in profiles not covered by Wikidata (or even enwiki) as well? I just try to perform a more systematic evaluation on an offline copy of the database (from August 2015), but the number of errors of the total database is a little larger … ;-) —MisterSynergy (talk) 11:21, 4 January 2018 (UTC)


 * With a fresh copy of all profiles (early Jan 2018, ~600,000 rows in an SQL database), I’m now looking for further anomalies. Due to the many errors to find, I restrict this to the ~7,000+ FISA profiles linked from Wikidata (as a Wikimedia-wide superset of covered rowering biographies), out of the total ~47,000+ profiles in FISA's database. —MisterSynergy (talk) 23:40, 6 January 2018 (UTC)


 * I wonder whether we should have a systematic go at adding entries to Wikidata for rowers who should have bios on WP, e.g. medallists at world champs, gold medallists at European champs, Olympic rowers. I appreciate that this would add many thousand entries to the profiles that we already have.  Schwede 66  09:04, 7 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Yes, I have thought about that as well already. It would not be a problem with Wikidata notability, and it would also be fairly simple from the technical point of view. Legal issues are a thing here, but I am meanwhile pretty much convinced that FISA’s database does not enjoy much legal protection anyway in spite of the lack of an open license. To have an overview, I have counted the number of missing Wikidata items (based on the Jan 4, 2018 FISA database, which is known to be incomplete; World Rowing Champs (WRCH) include para rowing classes and 1970s FISA lightweight champs):
 * {| class="wikitable"

! missing Wikidata items of !! Olympics/Paralympics !! WRCH !! ERCH !! WRCH+ERCH !! WRC
 * gold medallists || 0 || 0 || 0 || 0 || 128
 * medallists || 0 || 0 || 0 || 0 || 766
 * finalists || 0 || 1873 || 332 || 2157 || 1812
 * participants || 0 || 5983 || 887 || 6560 || 3649
 * colspan="6" style="background-color:#EAECF0;" |
 * }
 * The numbers of the last two columns do not exactly add up the numbers of the previous columns due to rowers who appear in more than one case. Table rows further below always include numbers of all rows above.
 * There would be some preparation work necessary in order to have all individual event editions of the championships equipped with a Wikidata item; this is something I occasionally work on anyway. That way we could immediately start to add results information as well. —MisterSynergy (talk) 09:51, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * colspan="6" style="background-color:#EAECF0;" |
 * }
 * The numbers of the last two columns do not exactly add up the numbers of the previous columns due to rowers who appear in more than one case. Table rows further below always include numbers of all rows above.
 * There would be some preparation work necessary in order to have all individual event editions of the championships equipped with a Wikidata item; this is something I occasionally work on anyway. That way we could immediately start to add results information as well. —MisterSynergy (talk) 09:51, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * There would be some preparation work necessary in order to have all individual event editions of the championships equipped with a Wikidata item; this is something I occasionally work on anyway. That way we could immediately start to add results information as well. —MisterSynergy (talk) 09:51, 7 January 2018 (UTC)


 * I got this kind of import running meanwhile—intentionally with a very slow pace. The Olympics/Paralympics gold medallists are meanwhile all covered by Wikidata, other (smaller) sets will follow. Participation data is still missing, I will add this later, also for older items. —MisterSynergy (talk) 21:09, 8 January 2018 (UTC)


 * All Olympians/Paralympians with their Olympic/Paralympic rowing results in the FISA database now have a Wikidata item that also has a link to their sports-reference profile. However, in total we "only" have 5643 rower items with a sports-reference profile, while that website lists 7689 Olympic rowers. So ~2000 Olympic rowers are still missing at Wikidata, and I guess they are either not covered by the FISA database at all, or their Olympic results are not displayed in the FISA database. I’ll try to address this gap later.
 * Right now I plan to continue with infobox-compatible participation/results data at Wikidata, rather than creating even more items for WRCH/ERCH participants. This requires some preparation, so let’s see how this will develop. —MisterSynergy (talk) 16:49, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

U23 WRCH
Does anyone have a list of all events ever held at the Under-23 World Rowing Championships (including their predecessors "Nations Cup" and "Match des Seniors", so back to 1976)? To my knowledge, Match des Seniors started with men's and women's open weight events in 1976. Men's Lwt events were apparently added in 1986, women's Lwt events in 1987 (see www.rowinghistory-aus.info page).

FISA’s database seems to be very incomplete particularly for the editions in the 1970s and 1980s, where women's events are systematically missing. Some Lwt. events from at least the late 1980s seem to be missing as well. Ping in particular, but any other editors are addressed as well, of course. Thanks, —MisterSynergy (talk) 07:44, 31 January 2018 (UTC)


 * I'm not surprised that there are gaps in FISA's information for the 70s & 80s, as they weren't running it then. It became known as the World U23 Regatta in 2001 or 2002 (though still referred to as the Nations Cup in some of the documentation), but even as late as 2004 it was still being organised by an organising committee separate from FISA.  It was only in 2005 that it became a World Championships under FISA's jurisdiction.  I don't have much information from the early days, but women's lightweight events started before 1987; the British Rowing Almanack's report of the 1986 regatta included GB crews in WLt2Sc and WLtSc. --David Biddulph (talk) 10:50, 31 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I am not surprised about these gaps as well, since FISA really did not like this regatta during Keller’s presidency (until his death in 1989). Meanwhile I found this media guide of 2008 which suggests that lightweight events for both genders were introduced in 1984. It does not contain a full list of events, unfortunately. —MisterSynergy (talk) 11:20, 31 January 2018 (UTC)


 * In 1986 the 16 events were:
 * M: 4+, 2Sc, 2-, Sc, 4-, 4Sc, 8o, Lt4-, Lt4Sc
 * W: 2Sc, 2-, Sc, 4Sc, 4+, Lt2Sc, LtSc
 * --David Biddulph (talk) 11:31, 31 January 2018 (UTC)


 * I've found results for 1980, but I'm not entirely certain whether they were U23 or U19. Those rowers that I've checked were all U19 (Uwe Mund, Roland Schröder, Thomas Lange, Karsten Schmeling, and Jürgen Seyfarth):
 * M: 4+, 2x, 2-, 1x, 2+, 4-, 4x, 8+
 * W: 4+, 2x, 2-, 1x, 4x, 8+
 * -- Schwede 66  19:03, 1 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Yes, those were the U19 champs. The results are actually in FISA's database . To my knowledge, the East European federations did not participate at the Match des Seniors, at least in the beginning. The format was initiated by Western European countries (France, Belgium, Italy, and Switzerland), and I believe that they did not want to have the East Europeans there because they were "too good", so they just did not invite them … —MisterSynergy (talk) 20:40, 1 February 2018 (UTC)


 * "Too good" at doping, that is!  Schwede 66  21:08, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Row bar


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New rowing bio
I've just published a new rowing bio: Jos Van Thillo (his common name; his birth name is Jacques Van Thillo; Wikidata D:Q50425028). He was the coxswain for the Belgian men's coxed pair that competed at the 1956 Summer Olympics. He was born in 1942 and that clarifies that he was indeed the cox and not one of the rowers, as 14-year-olds don't get to row, but they commonly cox at that age. So far so good.

The big international competition for rowers at the time was the European Rowing Championships, and at the 1954 edition, we have a Joseph van Thillo D:Q50425268 competing as one of the Belgian rowers in the coxed pair, with Willy Vlaminckx listed as the cox. Same boat class, around the same time, similar name. In international rowing, it has happened exactly once that a cox became a rower, but that wouldn't be the case here as you don't go to international rowing competitions as a rower aged 16. So either, we have two different people with similar names, or the source for the European champs is wrong and Vlaminckx was a rower, with Van Thillo the coxswain.

There are several ways how this could be resolved:
 * the subject is still alive; somebody could ask for clarification
 * somebody could enquire with the Belgian rowing association
 * somebody may have a source that confirms that Vlaminckx was indeed a rower and not a cox (e.g. some contemporary reporting about the 1954 European Rowing Championships held in Amsterdam)

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Copied to here from WikiProject Belgium where it didn't elicit a response.  Schwede 66  18:19, 23 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Difficult situation. However, I am pretty sure that Joseph and Jacques “Jos” Van Thillo are/were different persons. Joseph already appeared at the 1953 European Rowing Championships with yet another cox (Henri de Brie, no info known about him), but with the same rowing partner René Verhoeven. Jacques “Jos” was just 10 years old at that time, which seems unlikely even for a cox… According to sports-reference.com, he was member of the Antwerpse Roeivereniging, see www.sculling.be. They don’t have much about their history online, unfortunately. —MisterSynergy (talk) 20:01, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

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“Men's lightweight eight” or “Lightweight men's eight”
Question regarding terminology (needed for Wikidata): what’s the preferred term for lightweight boat class events, such as the “Men's lightweight eight”/“Lightweight men's eight”? Thanks for comments, MisterSynergy (talk) 21:23, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Do we have an officially preferred version? Where is it stated?
 * Is it perhaps regional flavor (e.g. American vs British style)?
 * English Wikipedia seems to use “Men's lightweight eight” preferably, but in FISA’s database the other style “Lightweight men's eight” is apparently more common (example in their database).


 * I think “Lightweight men's eight” would be more usual. LM8 would be a more common abbreviation than ML8.  I would stick with FISA's terminology.  Under British Rowing's domestic competition we might refer to women's lightweight events, but these days we don't generally have men's events;  open events allow either men or women to compete. --David Biddulph (talk) 11:27, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * I concur; LM8 is indeed the more common abbreviation and therefore, "lightweight men's eight" is the logical name. That raises the associated questions whether lwt rowing articles should also follow that convention, e.g. 2017 World Rowing Championships – Men's lightweight double sculls (just created) and Rowing at the 2016 Summer Olympics – Men's lightweight double sculls.  Schwede 66  23:40, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Tell me
Do we have an agreed notability minimum criteria ? And is it national representation ? And what about medals in the infobox ? A contributor suggested to me that if an underage world champion medallist then wins a World Rowing Championships medal, I should show only that and remove the display of the underage medals. Is that what we do ?- Sticks  66  14:15, 16 September 2018 (UTC)


 * In rowing, the de facto Wikimedia-wide minimum criteria for notability is to have an international championship appearance in the open age class, although notability criteria are not harmonized among Wikipedias in any way. There are only very few exceptions to this “rule”, either because nobody cared (yet), or because the person has achieved something else which implies notability. —MisterSynergy (talk) 15:56, 16 September 2018 (UTC)