Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Turkey/Archive 4

Translators needed
Cucumis.org needs translators who can translate Turkish into English. This normally requires that English be the translator's primary language. The web site is a free, collaborative translation service, in which every translation is evaluated by an expert and new translators are mentored. Participating is a good way to learn professional translation skills. How is that relevant here, you ask? The web site needs translators who can translate Turkish into English because it has more than 12,000 users in Turkey but fewer than 1000 users in English-speaking countries (see stats). Those 12,000 users are standing by, waiting for texts (such as English Wikipedia pages) to translate. To join and translate, or submit a text to be translated, please click here. --Una Smith (talk) 20:28, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Copyright of government seals
I always thought government property was in the public domain, but I can not prove it. Can someone fix Image:ConstitutionalCourtTurkeySeal.png ASAP as it's going to be deleted Jan. 9, 2008? Thanks. --Adoniscik (talk) 18:13, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Such exceptions are not automatic; for the U.S. the rather general exception for the government is by an article in the United States copyright law, specifically article . The law in force in the Republic of Turkey can be found here. There is an exception for speech produced by the government (see Madde 32) and for representations from the educational system (see Madde 33); neither exception would apply here, unfortunately, and I did not see another rule that would grant an exception here. --Lambiam 23:08, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Criticism of kemalism on AfD
The newly created Criticism of kemalism article has been listed on AfD: Articles for deletion/Criticism of kemalism. --Lambiam 22:57, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Suleiman the Magnificent FAC
Just in case some of you were not aware, this article is currently an FA candidate. Please go over what you can, propose or implement improvements and generally help promote the article. Thanks, --A.Garnet (talk) 14:46, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * If editors have access to any sources on Suleiman I'd appreciate an attempt to expand the "cultural achievements" sections, especially on the state of calligraphy, miniatures and ceramics during his reign. Come on people, this is a chance to get a major Turkish historical article to FA status, the response so far has been quite dissapointing. --A.Garnet (talk) 21:10, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Edits by User:Polysynaptic
User has been engaging in a string of inappropriate point-of-view edits, including erasing well-sourced references to Persian culture from articles related to Turkic topics, and conflating the distinct notions of "Turkish people" with "Turkic peoples". His responses to criticism do not suggest he is amenable to reason. It will require a substantial effort to repair the damage he is doing. --Lambiam 20:38, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Contributions of User:Polysynaptic
What is "inappropriate point-of-view edits"?

Who are you judging Mr. Kemalist? You think if a Turk is not Kemalist then it is inappropriate. Pleased to meet you... and your "little" project, too.

"Appropriateness"?? Your so called "Project Turkey" -huh!- watches while Persians define any Turkish entity as "Persian", "Persianated", "Horasani", or at least "Turkic", etc. even the Great Selçuk Empire. That is your condition of appropriateness.

What have you people with your glamorous -approprite point of view- done with Ghaznavid Empire?

What have you people with your glamorous -approprite point of view- done with Kara Khanid Empire?

What have you people with your glamorous -approprite point of view- done with Al-Farabi?

What have you people with your glamorous -approprite point of view- done with "the contribution of Turkish scientists"?

What is "the damage he is doing"?

You have already "done" the damage leaving no place to any others by letting them use the weird, racist term "Turkic" which is "invented" by USSR emperialism to alianate Turkish people to each other. Now, you can start Turkish history with your lovely Mustafa Kemal anymore. well done.

I look at articles related with Turkish Civilisation and see your "substantial" existence. keep going.

--Polysynaptic (talk) 00:24, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Syrian Turkmen or Turkish Syrians?
The article Syrian Turkmen was moved to Turkish Syrian, and next the population of Syrian Turkmen was counted in Turkish people as Turks. Is this justified, analogous to how Turks in Serbia or Greece count as Turkish people, or is this a "point of view" issue in which as many people as possible should be counted as Turkish people? --Lambiam 09:36, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

It really adds up if you start counting Turkic peoples as Turkish people (Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Central Asian Turks in Tajikistan, as is done in the infobox of Turkish people! --Lambiam 23:01, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Status of evolution/creationism in Turkish education system
I've read an article in Science about this (see creation and evolution in public education for a summary), though I'm not sure how up to date it now is. The article was published 7 years ago now. Has the situation changed much? Is evolution still taught alongside creationism and Lamarckism, or is it being taught more like Western countries? Or has creationism taken over? I need to do more research on this, though hopefully I can get a fairly quick answer here. Richard001 (talk) 00:12, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, if anyone knows what has become of the God Delusion controversy, please let us know on that article's talk page. Richard001 (talk) 01:09, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Alanya FAC
Hi all. After a long break from the project, I've finally put Alanya up for featured article candidate. Be sure to check it out and give your opinion on the article.--Patrick Ѻ 15:29, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Special:Contributions/Dilmener
How should this user's contributions be dealt with? Naim Dilmener is a renowned musicologist, but his contributions to Turkish pop music constitute WP:OR. (Look at the Notes too.) If we simply undo his work he may become annoyed and leave. --Adoniscik (talk) 15:48, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Has he published anything specifically on Turkish pop music? If so, perhaps he could be encouraged to cite them? Kafka Liz (talk) 15:52, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually he has several books published on Turkish music. If the user is the musicologist himself then wow, we have an author contributing. Should not be discouraged but gently reminded that he should cite the works. list of Dilmener's books. --Teemeah Gül Bahçesi  16:23, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * So who's going to write him a gentle explanation? I'm not good at this stuff. Thanks for writing. --Adoniscik (talk) 16:41, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Seslisozluk on AfD
The newly created Seslisozluk article has been listed on AfD: Articles for deletion/Seslisozluk. --Lambiam 18:41, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Metamorfoz on peer review, help!
Metamorfoz peer review, please help! --Teemeah Gül Bahçesi  09:29, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Menemen massacre on AfD
The Menemen massacre article has been nominated for deletion: Articles for deletion/Menemen massacre.

WPTR: Articles of unclear notability
Hello,

there are currently 10 articles in the scope of this project which are tagged with notability concerns. I have listed them here. (Note: this listing is based on a database snapshot of 2008-03-12 and may be slightly outdated.)

I would encourage members of this project to have a look at these articles, and see whether independent sources can be added, whether the articles can be merged into an article of larger scope, or possibly be deleted. Any help in cleaning up this backlog is appreciated. For further information, see WikiProject Notability.

If you have any questions, please leave a message on the Notability project page or on my personal talk page. (I'm not watching this page however.) Thanks! --B. Wolterding (talk) 16:52, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Image request: Chora Church
Hi, do any of the members of this WikiProject live in Turkey, and would you be able to obtain a photo of one of the mosaics in Chora Church? Please see Talk:Chora Church for more information, thanks. --Elonka 13:05, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Translation request
Could someone have a go at translating Ali Kemal and İkdam- I have started on Ali Kemal here. Thanks! Gustav von Humpelschmumpel (talk) 01:01, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

RfC: Should Atatürk International Airport be listed as an Asian or as a European destination?
See this Request for Comments: Talk:Singapore Airlines destinations/Archives/2012. --Lambiam 23:46, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Draft Guidelines for Lists of companies by country - Feedback Requested
Within WikiProject Companies I am trying to establish guidelines for all Lists of companies by country, the implementation of which would hopefully ensure a minimum quality standard and level of consistency across all of these related but currently disparate articles. The ultimate goal is the improvement of these articles to Featured List status. As a WikiProject that currently has one of these lists within your scope, I would really appreciate your feedback! You can find the draft guidelines here. Thanks for your help as we look to build consensus and improve Wikipedia! - Richc80 (talk) 14:38, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Ive created Anglo-Turkish relations
its not too good at the moment and it could do some work. Especially with the layout. I was wondering if someone could help improve the article. Thanks Ijanderson977 (talk) 18:37, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Template question
I would like to move Turkish diaspora articles from and create separate  template similar to  template. What do you think? It seems to me it is a standard to group similar ethnic group articles by the navigation box at the bottom. - Darwinek (talk) 23:17, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Although i like the style of the one you are suggesting better, it would not be appropiate to call it the 'turkish diaspora' because Turks in Bulgaria, Cyprus, Greece, Iraq, Kosovo, Macedonia, Romania, and Syria are not part of the disapora as these are their home lands (thus they are not immigrants to these countries) Justinz84 (talk) 14:03, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Öneri
İngilizcem iyi olmaıdğı için Türkçe yazıyorum, kusura bakmayın. Ben diyorum ki Türkçede kaliteli ya da Seçkin madde statüsündeki, ingilizcedeki durumları kötü olan maddelerin çevirisi için de bir grup oluşturulsuyn. Örneğin Gülben Ergen, Ayvalık maddelerinin çevirisi laızm.--88.232.93.176 (talk) 08:35, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Van Resistance
Hullo, cross-posting from WP:EAR - would any of you be able to take a look at Van Resistance please? There's a bit of a conflict going on and some fresh eyes might be helpful. TIA, --AndrewHowse (talk) 20:18, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Articles flagged for cleanup
Currently, 1119 of the articles assigned to this project, or 20.0%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of 2008-06-18.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings for details. Subsribing is easy - just add a template to your project page. If you want to respond to this canned message, please do so at my user talk page. --B. Wolterding (talk) 17:24, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Changes to the WP:1.0 assessment scheme
As you may have heard, we at the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level. The new description is available at WP:ASSESS.
 * The new C-Class represents articles that are beyond the basic Start-Class, but which need additional references or cleanup to meet the standards for B-Class.
 * The criteria for B-Class have been tightened up with the addition of a rubric, and are now more in line with the stricter standards already used at some projects.
 * A-Class article reviews will now need more than one person, as described here.

Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at Category:C-Class_articles. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. The bot is already finding and listing C-Class articles.

Please leave a message with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme. This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year. Thanks for using the Wikipedia 1.0 scheme! For the 1.0 Editorial Team, §hepBot  ( Disable )  21:27, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Turkish people
Can we please have some experts on the subject to try and clean up this article. I think it has a great potential to be a GA, however there has been major disputes on 'possible genetic links'. Thank you in advance! Justinz84 (talk) 13:58, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

It looks like the flames have died down. I worked on the article which got spun off from the ethnogenesis debate. --Adoniscik(t, c) 23:55, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Peace of Busza
Can anybody identify the modern names of entities of Busza (town/fortress) and Jaruga (river near Dniestr, likely a small tributary) (based on Polish sources, but seemingly also used in this context by some German, English and French works).--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 17:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Corruption in Turkey
I was thinking of mentioning Andrew Finkel's [http://www.allbusiness.com/government/3493224-1.html Who guards the Turkish press? A perspective on press corruption in Turkey] somewhere but could not identify a suitable article. Is it time to create Corruption in Turkey or should we squeeze it in elsewhere? Another interesting study is CORRUPTION IN TURKEY, Results of Diagnostic Household Survey (Bogazici/Bilgi Universities). I am sure I could find many more WP:RS's if I tried.

If you are interested, feel free to mention them yourself. --Adoniscik(t, c) 23:59, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

New ilce's, time to change the district maps!!
Hey guys, is this project asleep or what? There have been 42 new districts added into the provinces in FEBRUARY and ever since we have no new maps!!! Istanbul alone has 8 new districts + Eminönü removed (http://www.ibb.gov.tr/tr-TR/Pages/Haber.aspx?NewsID=15773), PLEASE those who know how to change the maps, do so!!! And also the templates, and the provinces articles should be updated with the new districts, I am doing it on huwiki. --Timish ¤ Gül Bahçesi  09:45, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia 0.7 articles have been selected for Turkey
A collection of Wikipedia articles is being collected together as Wikipedia 0.7. This collection will be released on DVD later this year, and will be available for free download. The Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.

We would like to ask you to review the articles selected from this project. These were chosen from the articles with this project's talk page tag, based on the rated importance and quality. If there are any specific articles that should be removed, please let us know at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.7. You can also nominate additional articles for release, following the procedure at Release Version Nominations.

A list of selected articles with cleanup tags, sorted by project, is available. The list is automatically updated each hour when it is loaded. Please try to fix any urgent problems in the selected articles; a team of copyeditors has agreed to help improve the writing upon request.

We would also appreciate your help in identifying the version of each article that you think we should use, to help avoid vandalism or POV issues. These versions can be recorded at this project's subpage of User:SelectionBot/0.7. We are planning to release the selection for the holiday season, so we ask you to select the revisions before October 20. At that time, we will use an automatic process to identify which version of each article to release, if no version has been manually selected. Thanks! For the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial team, SelectionBot 03:17, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Turkish Brigade
This article was recently created and I thought that someone with the specialist knowledge might be able to add some more context, some of it seems to be taken from here. Guest9999 (talk) 18:26, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Watch out for users making Propaganda against Turks
Hi guys! Of course you can't do anything against trolls on Wikipedia as everyone can write what he wants to do. But my suggestion would be that some of you guys once in a while have a look at articles which are risked to be attacked by some guys trying to get their own propaganda and myths into the Wikipedia articles. Especially when it comes to articles about Turkish/Turkic politics, culture and history.

Some of them try to make poltical issues of some who aren't one and others try to make Turkish culture and history (empires, origins and so on) their own. If you got the time just look sometimes through some of this articles as a few of them have got wrong information and aren't changed since then because nobody looks after them. --P223 (talk) 08:24, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Bloody Sunday (1969) Peer review request.
Hello, I have listed Bloody Sunday (1969) for peer review and I was hoping to see if any interested editors (especially those who can add turkish language sources) could offer some suggestions or additions there. Protonk (talk) 18:50, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Here's my short review: it's too early for one, the article is a stub. Plus the sources are mostly offline; you should be able to find some newspapers articles at least that might provide support. --Adoniscik(t, c) 21:54, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Ottoman Empire template
As a suggestion, in time we need an Ottoman Empire template to tag the related articles, similar to Template: WPTR or Template:Anatolian Civilizations. Cretanforever (talk) 15:10, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Proposal to merge Economy of Northern Cyprus into Northern Cyprus
The only information in Economy of Northern Cyprus that does not already appear in Northern Cyprus is the list with GNP per capita 2002-2007. This short article can be easily merged into Northern Cyprus. Please discuss the merge proposal on Talk:Northern Cyprus. --Zlerman (talk) 05:50, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

eastern anatolia region
The Eastern Anatolia Region article keeps going through a propaganda scandal by a nationalistic Armenian... who keeps claiming eastern Turkey to be a part of western Armenia. I urge all wikipedians to keep a watch on this page. Justinz84 (talk) 15:51, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I assume you mean ; an inexperienced user... —Adoniscik(t, c) 16:34, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes its begining to get fustrating- please be on the look out. I had to revert it again just now.Justinz84 (talk) 16:15, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Message
First Crusade has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. OpenSeven (talk) 17:12, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Salonika Committee
Hi, I've been tracing a certain cross-wiki development, and have stumbled upon this article. I am not familiar with the history of this region, but the article's tone and its apparent misuse of its sources rings of yet another Jewish/Freemason conspiracy. Can someone familiar with its history review the page and determine its encyclopedic value? --Illythr (talk) 02:28, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Fascinating! Never heard of the incident before. At the very least, it would be an interesting addition to the Jewish/Freemason conspiracy literature. --Adoniscik(t, c) 03:49, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The bombing is real, and the shell of the original building still stands. I cannot speak for the details. I will look for information. Aramgar (talk) 03:53, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I have rewritten the article to ensure balance and NPOV. Comments welcome. The bombing incident has been kept (at the very beginning!), but I look forward to receiving concrete information from Aramgar on this incident. Maybe even a photo of the building? In general, references 2 and 3 to two English publications need validation: can anyone look them up and provide at least publisher and year of publication data? Thank you. --Zlerman (talk) 04:01, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It is also necessary to check if "our" Salonika Committee is in fact the Committee of Union and Progress formed during the 'Young Turk' Revolution in Salonika (1908 24 July), which forced Abdulhamit to restore the Constitution of 1876 and recall Parliament. See here. Can anyone help with this? --Zlerman (talk) 04:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi again, I've found Erickson's book online and the relevant information is on pages 42 and 43, here. The exact identity of the Committee that did the bombing is unclear, but the book seems to refer to the perpetrators as the "Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Committee". Sir Rodd's memoirs are also available online and the relevant chapter briefly refers to a Salonika Committee, "which was all-powerful at Constantinople, was moreover largely recruited from and supported by Jewish elements." The die Zeit reference is also unhelpful in determining which one of them it was. This mess needs someone who knows the history of the place really well to sort it all out. Certainly not me, that. --Illythr (talk) 12:51, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * This is invaluable information, of course. Unfortunately, as Illythr points out, it is also totally inconclusive (especially Rodd's memoirs!). Please consider a possible link between our "Salonika Committee" and the Young Turk's Committee of Union and Progress (CUP), which seems to be somehow connected to Salonika. Let's see if we can unearth anything in this direction. This will enable us to do away with the whole "Salonika Committee" article by a simple redirect (maybe adding a couple of sentences to the CUP article). --Zlerman (talk) 14:21, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Here is something on a possible connection between Salonika Jews and CUP from Encyclopedia Judaica article "Ottoman Empire" (Vol. 15, 2nd ed.):


 * pp. 543-544 - The Salonika Community. There were approximately 80,000 Jews in Salonika, out of a total population of 173,000. Jacob Meir, their chief rabbi (later Sephardi chief rabbi of Palestine), was very sympathetic to Zionism; so was Saadiah Levi, the editor of L'Epoca, the local Jewish paper, and Joseph Na'or, the respected mayor of Salonika. But the greatest asset was Emmanuel Carasso, a prominent figure in the Young Turk movement and a deputy for Salonika in the Ottoman parliament. He thought that the leadership of the Committee of Union and Progress (CUP) was not as hostile to Zionism as was generally assumed, although Zionist aims should be made more palatable to it. Of equal importance was the conversion to Zionism of Nissim Matzliah and Nissim Russo, both of whom were deputies to the Ottoman parliament. They were members of the small group that founded the CUP and despite their youth were very influential. Matzliah was secretary of the CUP and later also of the parliament.


 * And again on pp. 542-543: "There seems, however, to be no evidence at all, in the voluminous Turkish literature on the Young Turks, that Jews ever played a part of any significance in their councils, either before, during or after the Revolution.… The Salonika lawyer Carasso … was a minor figure. Javid … was a doenmeh … and not a real Jew; he seems in any case to have been the only member of his community to reach front rank …" (B. Lewis, The Emergence of Modern Turkey, 207–8). In any case, later developments in the Republic of Turkey indicate that the attitude of the Young Turks toward the Jews as a nation was not influenced by the part supposedly played by Jews in the origins of the society. --Zlerman (talk) 14:44, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * And finally see Emmanuel Carasso on Wikipedia! --Zlerman (talk) 14:52, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * What I believe has happened here is that two shadowy Salonica groups have been conflated: The first Salonica committee is a cell of the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization responsible for blowing up the bank in 1903, the same year as the Ilinden–Preobrazhenie Uprising. The second and unrelated Salonica committee was affiliated with Committee of Union and Progress and flourished a few years later in the same city. I will try to confirm that the former group was responsible for the bombing and then remove the statement from the article. Aramgar (talk) 16:07, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * As I suspected, the latter group --whatever its connection with Jews, Masons, and Young Turks-- is unrelated to the Bulgarian nationalist movement. See Wikipedia's own Thessaloniki bombings of 1903. Aramgar (talk) 17:09, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Further discussion ought to be conducted at Talk:Salonika Committee. Aramgar (talk) 22:10, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Turkish people articles
Can we please try and work together to make the Turkish people artile a GA. Also I have concerns with the Turkish article (Türkiye Türkleri) there seems to be hardly any information about Turkish people- I am also concerned about the name of the article 'Türkiye Türkleri' means the Turks of Turkey, but would this include Turkish Cypriots, Turks in macedonia, Bulgaria, Greece?... shouldnt it just be Turkler? because Turkish people do not call other Turkic groups Turkler (e.g. an Azeri or Turkmen) Turco85 (talk) 00:53, 30 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd call it Turkic people in Turkey; Turkic by lineage, Turkish (Turkey) by nationality. --Adoniscik(t, c) 15:21, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

You cant call it Turkic people in Turkey because %90 of Turkish people are indigenous Anatolians not real Turkics, although they speak Turkish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lycianhittite (talk • contribs) 23:26, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

No, most of the people in Turkey are Turk, but in Turkish, the Turkic people means Turk, thats why we say Azeri or Turkmen.

ATA TV up for deletion
Can we get someone who knows about this television network to help with this page? It is a short article written mostly in Turkish and needs translation and context. I'm not too familiar with the subject area but this appears to be an international news source and the sort of thing we should cover on the Wikipedia. Squidfryerchef (talk) 02:48, 30 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Just leave the first sentence. TV stations pass for notable, right? --Adoniscik(t, c) 03:15, 30 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, some editors will argue that, but inherent notability for TV stations never reached consensus. Plus, with TV stations in the US its possible to fill out quite a bit of the article based on FCC and other databases, regardless of whether there's articles in secondary sources.  I don't think that information is as widely available for Turkey, and we can't leave it as just one sentence.  Maybe someone who's familiar with the network will know where to get more articles about the station. Squidfryerchef (talk) 14:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Bulgarians in Turkey
Bulgarians in Turkey has been proposed for deletion I thought that that might interest your project the reasons why are on the talkpage. 安東尼  TALK 圣诞快乐  18:00, 31 December 2008 (UTC)