Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Turkey/Archive 8

RfC: Turkish village stub mass redirect
Should Turkish village/neighbourhood stubs that meet one of the following criteria be redirected to a list in the District-level article? –dlthewave ☎ 18:22, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Please choose any combination of A, B or C. I propose using AWB to mass-redirect these stubs to lists in the District-level article such as the one at Çınar, Diyarbakır. Only geographic coordinates would be preserved, with no objection to others adding population tables at a later time or re-creating articles with significant coverage to meet GNG. –dlthewave ☎ 18:23, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
 * A: Articles consisting of "X is a village in Y district" referenced to an unreliable source such as Koyumuz (e.g. Sazak).
 * B: Articles consisting of "X is a village in Y district" referenced to a reliable government population table or database (e.g. Karataş)
 * C: Articles consisting of "X is a village in Y district. The village is populated by Kurds." (e.g. Düdüklük). This is an "add-on" for articles that also mention Kurds and would only kick in if there's consensus to redirect under A or B.

I've been cleaning up Turkish geostubs created by Lugnuts based on prior discussions which I believe show consensus to redirect any stub that's sourced only to Koyumuz. I'm opening this discussion to seek further consensus for cases where an additional source was cited, or where government tables/databases were used for mass creation. –dlthewave ☎ 18:31, 2 January 2022 (UTC)


 * C is clearly problematic. First off, information on articles, particularly if sourced reliably, must be preserved unless it violates any other core content policies, so a simple redirect would never be acceptable, a merge of that information would be required at the very least. We have observed so far that the use of semi-automated tools to help with this is proving... error-prone, to say the least. This information may often come with caveats e.g. the name of the Kurdish tribe, the religious affiliation of the Kurds in the village, and I simply do not trust that this could be handled reliably with AWB. It must be remembered that this whole redirection process was started in response to the meatbot-ish mass creation of geostubs. Where the articles have expanded beyond this with actual human attention, I think semi-automated redirects are unwarranted and unhelpful, as a matter of principle. There has been demonstrable interest in people adding at least a sentence to these articles, so they could be expanded further and need individual notability discussions on AfD as a matter of principle - for more details, please see my comments and the closing remarks on this AfD.
 * Whilst we're at it, there are other aspects to discuss. I also don't really agree with the way that these redirects are being carried out to essentially dump a database of inhabited places on district articles. On the AfD people have argued that "a good article might help the readers better" but that is clearly not the case in reality. Even with Alanya, a featured article, the list of "neighbourhoods" just looks out of place, awkward and frankly unhelpful. People must remember that Turkish district centres are actually towns, and that unlike American counties, we don't have separate articles for Turkish districts as opposed to the district centre towns. Many Turkish centres are barely more than tiny stubs so this results in clunky, lopsided articles with an undue information on the rural areas (see Adıyaman, Çınar, Diyarbakır). For this reason I'm not too keen on any redirection, but this objection is outweighed in the cases where the only source in the article is an unreliable one (so A is acceptable). When this information is more than just the name/coordinates, the articles start to become very clunky (see Baskil). As such, the amount of information being merged per village should be kept to a bare minimum, so I'd be opposed to even merging in the case of C - standalone articles are the best way to organise this information.
 * A somewhat unrelated but important note: for non-metropolitan municipalities, these are not "neighbourhoods", they are villages. Please be sure to check for every district to use correct terminology for redirecting.
 * --GGT (talk) 22:17, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
 * , some editors have suggested redirecting to "List of villages/neighbourhoods in X district". Would this address your concerns about clunky town articles? –dlthewave ☎ 19:36, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, it would be a significant improvement. It would still not be sufficient to justify allowing the use of a semi-automated tool to redirect articles containing reliably sourced information (or expanded otherwise), however. These always need to be assessed on a case-to-case basis, as per this AfD. The list suggestion does not entirely solve the problem, for instance, having the ethnicity info for only the Kurdish-inhabited villages would also not be preferable. It is the Köyümüz-derived articles that caused the original concern, and I see no rationale to expand AWB use beyond this. --GGT (talk) 20:32, 13 January 2022 (UTC)


 * A Mass redirecting articles that includes removing reliably sourced population information is very disruptive, an abuse of AWB, and should not even be listed as an option. If it goes ahead it should be reconsidered at WP:ANI in my view, Atlantic306 (talk) 08:17, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect all to district - Unreliably sourced information should not be kept so "A" has to go. Population data can just as easily be presented in a table at district level, particularly given the very small populations of some of these units, so "B" is also a good redirect. "Kurds live here" is not a meaningful statement in a country with a substantial Kurdish population and adds nothing to the article, so "C" goes as well. Obviously this is all with the caveat that where expansion into a full article is possible this should be done. FOARP (talk) 10:48, 4 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Non of the above It is egregious to assume that all (village) stubs should/must be redirected to another article, and the three links provided above, do not backup this assumption. The ANI discussion was focused on mass creation and not notability, two very different areas of WP. Reading through the comments of the AfD, it's a rough 50/50 split of redirect vs. keep. That AfD was from almost a year ago, with multiple recent AfDs now favouring keep (details below). The mass creation discussion was at the same time of that AfD, and ultimately created a lot of heat and noise on the back of mass creations of Iranian villages, where the issue there was that those places simply did not exist. Mass creation (on my part) has now ceased.


 * On that last point, there are two vastly different issues. The places in Iran did not/do not exist, while the places in Turkey do exist. Infact each village I created already had a corresponding article on the Turkish WP, along with multiple other wikis (Armenia, Germany, and others). Five pillars, one of the fundamental principles of Wikipedia, clearly states under point one that "Wikipedia combines many features of general and specialized encyclopedias, almanacs, and gazetteers". The counter arguement is just an essay. All of the villages in Turkey are populated places (many with several hundred, if not thousands of people living there). This meets the requirements of WP:GEOLAND, a long established Wikipedia notability guideline.


 * Three very recent AfDs (closed 20th Dec 21, closed 30th Dec 21, closed 8 Jan 22) have ALL been closed as Keep. The last, closed by an admin, had the closing rationale of "articles about villages are kept as long as the requirements of WP:GEOLAND are met, even if the detail provided in the article is minimal". The OP started this RfC whilst all three of those AfDs were either live or had been very recently closed as keep, which could be viewed as forum shopping ("Raising essentially the same issue on multiple noticeboards and talk pages").


 * The village of Akuşağı, Baskil was included in the AfD that was closed on the 30th Dec. Thanks to the work of editors, this was expanded and appeared on the front page of WP as a DYK on 8th Jan 21. Multiple other villages, either nominated on their own or in a group bundle from those three recent AfDs, have also been expanded. The OP has stated that they "propose using AWB to mass-redirect these stubs" which is clealy against the rules of use for AWB ("Do not make controversial edits with it"). Such redirects done en-masse have been reversed by other editors as "inappropriate", and have been labled as "disruptive" in this very thread.


 * A final observation - Why just Turkey? Why not other villages in other countries? Well on 11th Dec, the OP tried to delete about 60 villages in Azerbaijan via WP:PROD. A month has now passed and none of those articles have either a) been redirected or b) sent to AfD, which seems quite puzzling based on the modus operandi of redirecting and/or deleting similar village articles. In conclusion, I feel this RfC is flawed (bad RfC?) with a loaded question based on an assumption of everything must be redirected. I've now put my points across, and hope that the OP and the single supporter of redirecting don't feel the need to bludgeon every rationale I've listed, as I don't want to engage in further protracted discussions, as we both have opposite points of view on this issue. Thanks.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 14:20, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
 * , I respect your wish not to engage further, especially when it comes to differences in opinion. I do have one question: How best to handle the thousands of remaining Koyumuz-sourced stubs, if not by redirecting? Are you still working on replacing Koyumuz references with a more reliable source? –dlthewave ☎ 19:39, 13 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Aren't villages (as opposed to suburbs and hamlets) not generally inherently notable especially if they have a stated population? Until November last year when the OP changed NPLACE to specify that they must be legally recognized but this seems to be the case anyway here at least with B and yes the argument that the population could be covered in a table is an argument that could apply to any place so doesn't seem persuasive.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 18:20, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Support all. These are database entries, not articles, and as such violate WP:NOTDATABASE. These articles should all be replaced with a line in a list, until someone wishes to take on the task of writing something more than a database entry on the topic - if coverage ever exists for such a creation. BilledMammal (talk) 10:31, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Bad RfC. I initially came here to close the RfC from a request on WP:RFCLOSE, but upon reading the arguments I'm rather shocked at the misunderstanding of WP:CONLEVEL present in this discussion that many !voters have implicitly endorsed. There is already a community consensus on how to handle contested blanking and redirecting; there is a community consensus against using processes for this other than AfD—in the 2021 RfC, editors almost unanimously agreed that contested blanking and redirecting should be resolved at WP:AFD. This RfC, in and of itself, attempts to evade that normal process by creating a discussion on a WikiProject page. WP:CONLEVEL is clear: Consensus among a limited group of editors, at one place and time, cannot override community consensus on a wider scale. And, on top of that, this is likely not the only relevant WikiProject for many of those sorts of articles—WikiProject Cities comes to mind—so opening an RfC here is not an appropriate way to obtain a community consensus. In this light, using WP:AWB to mass-redirect a bunch of these articles based off of a Wikiproject-level discussion seems like a great way to violate WP:AWBRULES, which specifies that users must seek consensus for changes that could be controversial at the appropriate venue before making them. As this RfC is not capable of finding consensus to engage in mass redirects because it is at an utterly incorrect venue, none of the above seems to be the best substantial response to the RfC prompt. — Mhawk10 (talk) 19:22, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Levantine Arabic FAC
Levantine Arabic is a FAC and any review would be more than welcome. Levantine is spoken historically in Hatay and nearby provinces but with the Syrian Civil War, millions of Levantine speakers now live in the rest of Turkey. A455bcd9 (talk) 10:12, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Draft:Yakamoz S-245
The new Turkish-language Netflix TV series now has a draft page: Draft:Yakamoz S-245. Referencing might benefit from information in Turkish, which is going to be easier to come by to start, and there is also a | tr Wikipedia stub. Consider contributing! Jodi.a.schneider (talk) 13:42, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

User script to detect unreliable sources
I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like and turns it into something like
 * John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.
 * John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.

It will work on a variety of links, including those from cite web, cite journal and doi.

The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.

- &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b}

This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:02, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Good Party
Publicising this - Talk:Good Party - Rfc here, per WP:RFCTP. It really needs input from more editors. Please place your views on the linked talk page. Thanks. Helper201 (talk) 13:01, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Merger discussion for Akkuyu Nuclear Power Plant
An article that you have been involved in editing&mdash;Akkuyu Nuclear Power Plant&mdash;has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. Chidgk1 (talk) 17:08, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Requesting some article expansion help
Greetings,

Hi, I am User:Bookku, I find information and knowledge gaps create Drafts, try to recruit draft expanding editors and promote drafts articles for further expansion.

Requesting your visit to following drafts and help expand the same if any of these interests you.


 * Draft:Intellectual discourse over re-mosqueing of Hagia Sophia


 * Draft:Irrational beliefs


 * Draft:Superstitions in Christian societies

Thanks and warm regards

&#32;Bookku, &#39;Encyclopedias &#61; expanding information &#38; knowledge&#39; (talk) 11:17, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Interconnector Turkey–Greece–Italy
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Interconnector Turkey–Greece–Italy that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ASUKITE 15:42, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Death and state funeral of Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Death and state funeral of Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. UtherSRG (talk) 10:50, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

That probably was cryptic... why do we care about that? This RM involves about 50 state funeral articles, including at least one that is related to this WP. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:13, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Need someone to fix citations in Pechenegs
Hi all!

The references are quite a mess in the bottom of Pechenegs § Late history and decline. I'm not Turkish, so can I ask you people to convert them? Gyalu22 (talk) 11:58, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Bütün Dünya magazine
A challenge to the notability of Bütün Dünya magazine has been posted. It appears to need the help a some Turkish speakers. Thank you. SchreiberBike &#124; ⌨ 13:37, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Derin
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Derin that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 06:22, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Turkey RFC about authoritarianism and democratic backsliding
Talk:Turkey Moxy - 19:53, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Adding info without reliable sources
Hello @Magnum5051

Thanks for adding info about various places but do you have reliable sources? For example you have not yet replied to my questions about your sources for Afşin Chidgk1 (talk) 13:27, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

92.31.109.122
Can someone please review edits by Special:Contributions/92.31.109.122. The anon has made several edits related to Turkey, India and other countries. While many of their edits seem to be harmless (such as wiki-linking), many are downright vandalism (this one for example). I'm reviewing their India-related edits, but I'm not knowledgable enough about Turkey, so I can't judge whether their changes are vandalism or not. utcursch &#124; talk 06:17, 2 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Not a history expert but did not spot any problem in a quick check Chidgk1 (talk) 13:34, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

Any active WP Turkey editors
I have a potential concern about current RM. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:48, 16 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi. Just going by your recent edits, is this about Talk:İskenderun? Seems like a ludicrous request. Any specific points of concern? GGT (talk) 02:55, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Merger discussion for Organized industrial zone
An article that you have been involved in editing&mdash;Organized industrial zone&mdash;has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. Chidgk1 (talk) 14:04, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Wikilala available on The Wikipedia Library
Hello

Wikilala, known as the Google of Ottomans, is available now on The Wikipedia Library. Wikilala is an authoritative collection of the Ottoman Empire with more than 100,000 printed documents, including 45,000 newspapers, 32,000 journals, 4,000 books and 26,000 articles, in Ottoman Turkish and Latin. Wikilala’s digital resources cover the history of the Ottoman Empire from its founding to the modern days.

Editors who meet the eligibility criteria (500 edits, 6 months of editing, 10 edits in the last 30 days and no active blocks) can access these resources here - https://wikipedialibrary.wmflabs.org/partners/137/. Thank you. VSj (WMF) (talk) 13:37, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Erdemli Pine Groove
Is Erdemli Pine Groove the correct title for this place, or should the last word be "grove" instead of "groove"? I came across the article checking links to umbrella pine, which can refer to a Japanese species (Sciadopitys verticillata) or a Mediterranean species native to Turkey (Pinus pinea). The article does state Sciadopitys, but the source for this is down, and I suspect it should be Pinus pinea (I already fixed an umbrella pine link at Karatepe-Aslantaş National Park, where the article had stated Sciadopitys, but the Turkish language source called it tr:Fıstık çamı). Plantdrew (talk) 17:47, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Infobox and districts
Hi, I've created a new infobox for places in Turkey (municipalities, villages, districts etc.): Infobox Turkey place. It's a standardized wrapper for Infobox settlement, which also makes it easier to control the quality of the data shown. Any remarks, comments or questions, just let me know.

Related to this, I've been having some discussions with and  about creating separate articles about districts. Currently most of these districts don't have a separate articles, and information about the district is given in the article about the district capital. While in some cases this makes sense to me (if the district has exactly the same area/composition as a municipality), I think in most cases there should be separate articles. Take for instance Palu District and its capital Palu, Elazığ. The district articles could cover the composition of the district, its government, population, geography, history etc., while the articles about the capitals could cover the municipality, its quarters, government, population, geography, history etc. See also how it's done in similar cases, e.g. the arrondissements of France, districts of Germany, cantons of Ecuador, districts of Kyrgyzstan. Thoughts? Markussep Talk 15:52, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I support this. Semsûrî (talk) 21:44, 12 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks! The district vs. capital situation is rather straightforward for the non-metropolitan provinces (like Elazığ), however I'm confused about the metropolitan provinces. For instance Antalya Province covers a much larger area than the city of Antalya, but there is no municipality for the city proper, apart from the metropolitan municipality = the province. Much of the inner city seems to be covered by Muratpaşa, which is a district and a municipality. Is there a reference somewhere which districts correspond with the city or urban area as shown in the Antalya article? And how is that for the other metropolises? Since apparently all metropolitan districts cover the same area as the corresponding municipalities, I think in these cases there should be only one article covering both district and municipality. Markussep Talk 08:50, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * From what I understand Antalya city is a metropolitan municipality and the districts it is divided into function as separate municipalities. The districts Aksu, Döşemealtı, Kepez, Konyaaltı and Muratpaşa encompass the city and they are listed as belediyeler here. I assume that this will be the case for most metropolitan provinces - that the capital city is run as various municipalities. Mardin is an exception however, as all of it is in Artuklu District. This was my concern back when I mentioned Istanbul some days ago as it is the same there: You have the metropolitan municipality of Istanbul but then you have its dozens of districts that work as municipalities so you don't have one that encompasses all of the city. Semsûrî (talk) 09:24, 13 January 2023 (UTC)


 * This list of the Antalya Province gives all 19 districts/municipalities (as do all other sources I found so far, like this one), where did you find that Aksu, Döşemealtı, Kepez, Konyaaltı and Muratpaşa encompass the city of Antalya? Markussep Talk 14:40, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Found this government site which actually names six districts on page 2. Semsûrî (talk) 15:25, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Nice! If add the areas of these districts, I get 3,290 km2, which is a lot more than the urban area in the Antalya article (1,417 km2), I wonder where that came from. Markussep Talk 16:10, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Maybe because those six municipalities not only encompass the city but also many rural settlements? Semsûrî (talk) 16:13, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if Serik absorbs parts of the city at all - it seems to be centered around Serik city east of the city. Semsûrî (talk) 16:18, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * This article excludes Serik as a 'merkez ilçe' which would make more sense.. Semsûrî (talk) 16:32, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Wikimania 2023 : Singapore, 16-19 August
Wikimedians! You are highly encouraged to apply for travel scholarship for Wikimedia Movement's largest gathering, Wikimania 2023. Wikimania 2023 will happen in Singapore and online from 16-19 August, 2023. There is a pre-conference on the 15th and a post-conference on the 20th. It is back on Asia since Hong Kong in 2013. Application deadline is on 5 February 2023 at 23:59 AoE. Regular registration will happen around May 2023. --Exec8 (talk) Exec8 (talk) 07:46, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Cemil Bey
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Cemil Bey that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. —usernamekiran (talk) 03:52, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

Hürseda Haber
The editors at the reliable sources noticeboard seem to have difficulties assessing the reliability of the Turkish publication Hürseda Haber. Maybe participants at WikiProject Turkey can be of help addressing some of the open questions, specifically:
 * Who are the editors and may they have prior work experience in well-known outlets? Were they caught fabricating facts in the past?
 * Has this outlet published its editorial policy and what does its editorial process look like?
 * Has this outlet published reliable information attributed to Israeli intelligence in the past?

Any information is welcome. 89.206.112.13 (talk) 17:08, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Istanbul High School
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Istanbul High School that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 15:00, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Merge proposal on Janissary Corps
There is a proposal that a new article on the Janissary Corps be merged into the pre-existing article Janissary. Any interested editors are invited to participate in the discussion. Constantine  ✍  17:18, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Project-independent quality assessments
Quality assessments by Wikipedia editors rate articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a class parameter to WikiProject banner shell, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.

No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to WikiProject banner shell, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.

However, if your project has decided to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass WPBannerMeta a new custom parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present. Aymatth2 (talk) 21:45, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

The article Western Armenia
It's lead section seems unbalanced toward Armenian irredentism but I'm unfamiliar with the topic, so I'm calling for attention. ibicdlcod (talk) 06:48, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Information needed to create an article about marketplace and neighbourhood guards
Hi,

Reference_desk/Humanities.

Thanks. Apokrif (talk) 02:43, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Economy of Turkey
Hello. I have improved several articles about Turkey but economics is far too difficult for me. As it is rated top importance for your project is there any chance one of you could improve the economy of Turkey article? That would likely help me with other Turkey articles which are related to the economy. Also Turkish economic crisis (2018–current) is marked high importance for you but is in pretty bad shape if any of you have time to work on it Chidgk1 (talk) 14:13, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Is there too much priority on history?
More than a third of the top importance articles are about history. I think that is too big a share and that it should be reduced to about a quarter. What do you think? Chidgk1 (talk) 14:31, 10 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Have downgraded a few history articles and upgraded a few non-history Chidgk1 (talk) 16:32, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Arab–Byzantine wars
Arab–Byzantine wars has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Onegreatjoke (talk) 16:22, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Need help creating an article for a Turkish dog breed.
Hello, I am currently working on Draft:Dikkulak, but I have reached a roadblock in my research. I am really struggling to find sources and more info because I cannot speak turkish. If anyone would be able to help I would really appreciate it. thank you! SpookMew (talk) 16:39, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Kırahmetler, Gazipaşa
Kırahmetler, Gazipaşa could benefit from some attention and editing from members of this project 76.14.122.5 (talk) 23:49, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

LGBT in the Ottoman Empire
Hi – this seems like a very promising article on a notable subject. Not new as such, but could do with some copyedits from members of this Wikiproject if anyone is interested. Thanks 😊 GnocchiFan (talk) 14:37, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Move discussion
An editor has requested that History of the Jews in Turkey be moved to another page, which may be of interest to this WikiProject. You &#32;are invited to participate in the move discussion. Edward-Woodrow :) [ talk ] 20:26, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Kalgançı
Hello, WikiProject,

I came across this draft today that seemed very interesting but the page creator has been blocked and will not be returning to working on the article. I wondered if there was some verification of this "folk belief" and if anyone who could speak Turkish could flesh out this article so it could be moved back to main space. Thanks, in advance, for any help you can supply. Liz Read! Talk! 03:49, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Meh. The article includes a citation to Türk Söylence Sözlüğü, a very dodgy self-published source whose author essentially spammed Wikipedia ages ago for the promotion of his fringe theories. See this for my detailed analysis on tr.wiki. That's an immediate red flag. --GGT (talk) 20:31, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Can you make a hookier hook?
Template:Did you know nominations/Renewable energy in Turkey Chidgk1 (talk) 06:01, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Erkan Geniş
Can anyone find any sources (maybe in Turkish) about the painter Erkan Geniş? We've had an article about him for 18 years, but never with any sources (bar his personal website). Everything I can find online seems to be a mirror of the Wikipedia article, except this bio on turkishpaintings.com, a site which appears to be WP:USERGENERATED (in translation, the site says it accepts "all amateur and professional artists" and invites subjects to send a curriculum vitae). There isn't a Turkish language Wikipedia entry. He doesn't have an entry in Biyografi.info (which other articles about Turkish people seem to cite a fair amount). His article here says he has "been accepted as one of the Greatest 100 Turkish Painters who Ever Lived, announced by the Ministry of Culture of Turkey" - which would be some evidence, but there's no reference for this either, and I can't find any evidence for this list - there seems to be no mention of it on the articles of any of the artists mentioned at List of painters from Turkey (which surely would include many of the "100 greatest"). Indeed, the Ministry of Culture does have some articles about noted Turkish artists, such as Bedri Rahmi Eyüboğlu but not Erkan Geniş.

So, can anyone help find any sources for this artists that meet WP:RS, and that show any kind of notability? -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 14:48, 26 June 2023 (UTC)


 * A bit of a belated response but I don't think he meets the notability criteria. I'm used to "saving" artist articles from deletion on tr.wiki so ran an extensive search with all my usual tricks and the best I could come up with was a paragraph in a local textbook made for schoolchildren in Bartın. Otherwise the very limited available sources appear promotional e.g. this one. For artists with a long career often there wouldn't be coverage immediately available online but I would be able to locate references to offline reviews of their exhibitions, and for Geniş there's absolutely nothing. GGT (talk) 20:39, 21 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your help. It's a bit of a shame, as I rather like his pictures. Still, I've nominated the article at Articles for deletion/Erkan Geniş. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 09:54, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:History of the Jews in Turkey
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:History of the Jews in Turkey that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. —usernamekiran (talk) 21:01, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Women in Green's 5th Edit-a-thon
 Hello WikiProject Turkey:

WikiProject Women in Green is holding a  month-long Good Article Edit-a-thon event in October 2023!

Running from October 1 to 31, 2023, WikiProject Women in Green (WiG) is hosting a Good Article (GA) edit-a-thon event with the theme Around the World in 31 Days! All experience levels welcome. Never worked on a GA project before? We'll teach you how to get started. Or maybe you're an old hand at GAs – we'd love to have you involved! Participants are invited to work on nominating and/or reviewing GA submissions related to women and women's works (e.g., books, films) during the event period. We hope to collectively cover article subjects from at least 31 countries (or broader international articles) by month's end. GA resources and one-on-one support will be provided by experienced GA editors, and participants will have the opportunity to earn a special WiG barnstar for their efforts.

We hope to see you there! Grnrchst (talk) 13:50, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Should Yüksek Hızlı Tren be merged into high speed rail in Turkey?
Don't answer here but at Talk:High-speed_rail_in_Turkey please Chidgk1 (talk) 17:34, 23 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Guys please comment there - we need you as only 2 have commented besides me as the proposer Chidgk1 (talk) 14:24, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

1927 census
Hi, The 1927 census results, in Midyat District there were 3,897 "Diğer Dinler" (other than: İslam Hristiyan Musevi) and 5,285 "diğer diller" (other than: Türkçe Arapça Kürtçe Çerkezce Ermenice Fransızca Arnavutça Rumca İtalyanca İbranice İngilizce Bulgarca Tatarca). And in Mardin District (Artuklu I guess): 4,305 "Diğer Dinler" but only 253 "diğer diller". A note says Doğu illerindeki gayrimüslim nüfusu genelde Ermeniler teşkil ederken, Mardin’deki gayrimüslimlerin önemli bir kısmını Süryaniler teşkil etmektedir.

Who are these "Other religions" and "Other languages"? Did they include Assyrians in "Diğer dinler" instead of Hristiyan? "Diğer diller" could be the Turoyo language spoken by Assyrians. This would explain the results for Midyat (a large Assyrian settlement), but not for Mardin Merkez. Some publications of the 1927 census distinguish "Ermeni" vs "Ortodoks" vs "Hıristiyan", for instance here for Bingöl, so it's unclear. The authors note p. 466: 1927 Nüfus Sayımına göre Bingöl’de 40.540 Müslüman, 46 Ermeni, 1 Ortodoks ve 5 Hıristiyan yaşamaktadır. Ancak Ermeni, Ortodoks ve Hıristiyan kategorilerinin neye göre yapıldığı muallâkta kalmıştır. Ortodoks bir Ermeni aynı zamanda Hıristiyan değil midir? Böyle bir Ermeni hangi kategoriye girmektedir? Bunlar 1927 nüfus sayımı verilerinde açıklanmaya muhtaç olan konulardır. 1927 nüfus sayımı verilerine göre Çapakçur ve Genç’te hiçbir gayrimüslim yaşamamaktadır. Sadece Kiğı’da 52 gayrimüslim yaşamaktadır a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 07:44, 22 September 2023 (UTC)


 * For what it's worth, I asked ChatGPT. Its conclusion: for Midyat probably Syriacs, incorrectly classified as non-Christians (not recognized by those conducting the census as Christians like more "established" Christian groups like Greek Orthodox or Armenian Apostolic), and Syriac dialects. Could be the same for Mardin but the low number of "Diğer diller" could be because Syriacs in Mardin had abandoned their language and switched to Turkish, Arabic, or Kurdish; whereas Midyat was the only town in the Ottoman Empire with an ethnic Assyrian majority so the Syriac language may have survived longer there. It could also be that some "Diğer dinler" who were not in "Diğêr diller" were Yazidis, as they didn't have their own language but spoke Kurdish. However there were more Yazidi in Midyat than in Mardin and there weren't a lot of them. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 08:10, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
 * From here: 5,285 "diğer diller" = Syriac indeed (source). a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 08:42, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Turkish-Georgian war
Turkish-Georgian war has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at Talk:Turkish-Georgian war.Annwfwn (talk) 22:53, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Byzantine Empire Featured article review
I have nominated Byzantine Empire for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:05, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

1927 Turkish census results
FYI: the 1927 Turkish census results were not easily accessible before (only in scanned PDF files). Now they are :): a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 19:52, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Religions
 * Languages

Category question
Hi there! I was recently cleaning up articles that contain WikiProject categories, and stumbled across Gallipoli campaign, which includes Category:WikiProject Turkey current top in-process tasks. Being unfamiliar with the category, I didn't make any changes. Is this category intended to contain articles, or should the category be removed from the article? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 04:25, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Looking for better lead pic for Agriculture in Turkey
If you have any idea please suggest at Talk:Agriculture_in_Turkey Chidgk1 (talk) 11:33, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Kurds "Iranian ethnic group" RFC
Editors are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Kurds. Levivich (talk) 00:04, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Peer review of LGBT in the Ottoman Empire
Hi everyone - just letting this WikiProject know that a Peer Review of LGBT in the Ottoman Empire (with the intention of improving this to Good Article status) is currently under way. If anyone has anything to add to the article / review, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! GnocchiFan (talk) 17:21, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Hacı Beşir Ağa Fountain


Should there be a Wikipedia article for Hacı Beşir Ağa Fountain?


 * commons:Category:Hacı Beşir Ağa Fountain

In case you might be familiar or aware of helpful sources.

--- Another Believer ( Talk ) 15:02, 28 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Also putting this on your radar, given your work at tr:Beyoğlu'ndaki çeşmeler listesi. Thanks! --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 15:06, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi ! I would suggest improving Beshir Agha article, adding information that he patronized 16 fountains in Istanbul. The photo of this fountain could be used as an example of the surviving fountains he patronized.--Basak (talk) 16:10, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
 * A helpful suggestion, thank you! --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 16:16, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Probably notable, just waiting to be created :) I had created so many cultural heritage article lately, so kinda having a "detox" of that topic. Nanahuatl (talk) 18:42, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @Nanahuatl I'd love to get a stub started, if you're able to provide some sources for inclusion. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 18:47, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I have some PDF sources but they're in Turkish. Nanahuatl (talk) 18:48, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @Nanahuatl I would welcome a stub at English Wikipedia using Turkish sources 100% --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 18:48, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
 * If you're interested in fountains, I have created some featured articles such as tr:Hasan Rıza Paşa Çeşmesi (Osmanağa), tr:İshak Ağa Çeşmesi, tr:Hoşyar Kadın Çeşmesi, tr:Sineperver Valide Sultan Çeşmesi (Fatih), tr:Mısırlı Osman Ağa Çeşmesi (Kadıköy), and tr:İshak Ağa Çeşmesi (Ortaçeşme, Beykoz), tr:Ali Bey Çeşmesi (Mevlanakapı), tr:Hasköy Çeşmesi and tr:İshak Ağa Çeşmesi (Beykoz Çayırı) are on the way. Nanahuatl (talk) 18:52, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @Nanahuatl These are so wonderful, thank you for sharing. I wish we had equivalents at English Wikipedia and would very much welcome translations. I saw many landmarks in Istanbul without entries. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 18:56, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
 * By the way, I am interested in fountains and public art. I've created List of public art in Istanbul and hope to continue expanding as I review my photographs and identify works. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 18:57, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I could say at least 500-600 notable fountains exist in Istanbul, probably more. Thousands of cultural heritage articles are missing, only in Istanbul. I'm trying to have FAs as many as possible, so I'm focused on FAs, not stubs. Creating them in Turkish are challenging enough and I'm focused on contributing on the Turkish Wikipedia, therefore I won't be able to contribute here :/ If you're interested in phographing them, you can check here and see most of the Turkish/Turkey related cultural heritage. Cheers. Nanahuatl (talk) 19:04, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I understand and appreciate your contributions to Turkish Wikipedia. Don't worry, I'll be doing some work here at English Wikipedia, creating interwiki links to some of your work :) --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 20:57, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

New pages
New pages:


 * 10 December Martyrs Park
 * Atatürk Monument (Kadıköy)
 * Balat Fountain
 * Bust of Atatürk
 * Camondo Stairs
 * Çorbacı Fountain
 * Cundi Park
 * Ecole St. Pierre Hotel
 * Hodjapasha Culture Center
 * İsimlerin Şehri İstanbul
 * Kadıköy bull statue
 * Kadırga Park
 * LGBT culture in Istanbul
 * List of fountains in Istanbul
 * List of public art in Istanbul
 * Narmanlı Han
 * Rainbow stairs
 * Sarayburnu Park
 * Statue of Alex
 * Statue of Âşık Veysel
 * Statue of Atatürk (Gülhane Park)
 * Statue of Atatürk (Sarayburnu)
 * Statue of Can Bartu
 * Statue of Fikret Mualla Saygı
 * Statue of Lefter Küçükandonyadis
 * Statue of Pope John XXIII
 * Statue of Süreyya İlmen
 * Statue of Yunus Emre
 * Template:Public art in Istanbul
 * Tomb of Mahmud II
 * Tophane Park
 * Yoğurtçu Fountain
 * Yoğurtçu Park

Improvements welcome! --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 11:54, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Fountain in Gülhane Park, Istanbul


Does anyone know the name of this fountain in Gülhane Park, Istanbul? Perhaps you are familiar.

Thanks! --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 13:04, 29 November 2023 (UTC)


 * I guess just drinking fountain or cistern fountain - Gülhane Parkı Sarnıcı Çeşmesi. Ymblanter (talk) 21:59, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
 * As far as I see, that's not an historical fountain, made of plaster and a modern work. Nanahuatl (talk) 18:53, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, both. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 18:55, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * , nope, that's different one. It can be seen here. Nanahuatl (talk) 18:55, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I am pretty sure I have seen the name coupled to this fountain, but I am not a local, so I defer to your opinion. Ymblanter (talk) 18:59, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Rainbow stairs, Istanbul
I've started Rainbow stairs, but so far I've struggled to find coverage of the staircase's repainting following the 2015 demolition. Are any project members able to help here? --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 16:37, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

AfC review request for a high school in Turkey
Hi, I would appreciate a review of the draft article Draft:İstiklal Makzume Anadolu Lisesi. As I indicated on the talk page, I believe the prior reviewers were not exactly fair to the subject and did not consider WP:NEXIST fairly. High schools in the developing world are significantly underrepresented on Wikipedia. For instance, currently, there are zero Wikipedia articles for high schools in the Hatay province (out of, e.g. this partial list), which has a population equal to that of New Hampshire. In contrast, New Hampshire has dozens of High School articles. Gorkem80 (talk) 04:49, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Current name of Foggia
In writing the article on SMS Zrinyi (1870), I've come across a reference to a port named Foggia that clearly isn't the one in Italy. From context, it seems to be in the area of Izmir, but I haven't been able to find it so far. Anyone able to point me in the right direction? Parsecboy (talk) 01:41, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Anyone like to create Poverty in Turkey article in Turkish?
I have done some small improvement on this article, which was created by a now blocked user. If any of you native speakers would like to do a Turkish version I could copy any Turkish cites you find Chidgk1 (talk) 14:35, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Move request at Talk:Yakup I
Interested editors may comment on the move request at Talk:Yakup I. Aintabli (talk) 05:33, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Turkish construction and contracting industry
This is another important subject which unfortunately lacks a Turkish article - I don’t know why as I see a lot of work has been done on tr:Türkiye'de mimarlık Chidgk1 (talk) 18:58, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Importance of IETT
Hello all members of WikiProject Turkey! I recently created the article Istanbul Electricity, Tram and Tunnel Establishments, which for the longest time just linked to Public transport in Istanbul. Anyways, I just wanted to get your guys' opinion on the importance of the article. I was thinking mid-importance seems just.

//

Merhabalar, yakın zamanda İETT'nin sayfasını yaptım, sizin fikrinizi almak istedim. Sizce az mı, orta mı önemde? ~ eticangaaa ( talk ) 11:54, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Boeing 737 AEW&C
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Boeing 737 AEW&C that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:36, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Turkey's link to the balaclava?
I noticed that the balaclava article is listed as a WikiProject Turkey article. Is there a connection I am unaware of, or is this somebody confusing balaclava and baklava? Arjsd (talk) 02:30, 5 November 2023 (UTC)


 * +1 Youprayteas (talk) 11:02, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

MOS:TR
Has no relation to Turkey/Turkish and no hatnote clarifying where to find the Manual of Style for Turkey/Turkish-related articles. Is there any such guide? or has it been overlooked so far?

WP:TR just redirects to some random editor's talk page, which should almost certainly be fixed but I'll leave it to you guys to point that out in the appropriate place. — Llywelyn II   10:06, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Coverage of neighborhoods in Turkey is not good and should be improved
Hello, I am trying to add articles for Turkish neighborhoods that actually deserve an article but don’t have one. I’m currently working on Draft:Caddebostan, Kadıköy and Draft:Erenköy, Kadıköy. I will soon also start draft pages for Suadiye, Kadıköy and Feneryolu, Kadıköy. If anyone is interested in helping, I would be very happy. Youprayteas (talk) 11:08, 22 January 2024 (UTC)


 * I will keep this in mind. Thanks for your contributions! ~ eticangaaa  ( talk ) 08:01, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Yanya
Copy/pasting from this official pdf from the Turkish government produces يانيه. Our vilayet article and Wiktionary entry are at یانیه. Those look the same but have different codepoints because one is using a ي and the other a ی.

Which one is right? or are they entirely interchangeable? If so, which one is the more correct base form? — Llywelyn II   08:45, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Quarters of centers of a district and the district itself; the confusion and how do we fix it?
What I'm trying to say is that just like provinces, almost all districts in Turkey are named after their historical, central cities. For provinces, we seperate these two (ex. Çanakkale and Çanakkale Province) but for districts, both are merged into the same page. This issue has already been discussed in various talk pages of said articles. You'd think it is easy to fix this, just create a seperate page for the central quarter. Yes, though it is hard to create a seperate page for every district. My proposal is to create such pages only for very important districts of Turkey (such as Fatih, Beyoğlu, Beşiktaş, Şişli, Üsküdar, Kadıköy, Maltepe, Beykoz, etc.). This is a very difficult mission, but if multiple people work together, I'm sure we can solve this problem. What do you think? Youprayteas talk/contribs 18:22, 10 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Hi, this is an interesting idea, but with some practical problems. Unlike the Çanakkale example, there is no administrative unit "Üsküdar" apart from the district and municipality "Üsküdar". You may ask yourself what you would write in an article about the city centre of Üsküdar that would not fit in an article about the municipality. There are some exceptions, for instance there is a neighbourhood (mahalle) inside Beykoz district/municipality that is called Merkez (or "Beykoz Merkez"), perhaps some of the information that is specifically about the centre of Beykoz could go there. Markussep Talk 08:57, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I have some comments.
 * 1. Going with the current example, Çanakkale is the seat of the Çanakkale Province it is not, in itself, a municipality. The municipality for the city of Çanakkale is the Çanakkale District (for metropolitan municipalities the center city is divided into many districts, in that case each rule different areas of the central city.)
 * 2. Not every district has a central neighbourhood, a lot of them have their centre divided too, even if they do have one, it might include a bigger or smaller area than the city itself.
 * 3. It doesn’t actually matter if there is a municipality or not for the page created, for example Moda, Kadıköy is not a province, district, municipality, village or neighborhood but the page still exists because the settlement area exists. Youprayteas talk/contribs 13:08, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Actually there is a difference between Çanakkale District and the municipality of Çanakkale, since Çanakkale Province is not a metropolitan province. Therefore we have separate articles for the district and the town/municipality. I agree with your points 2 and 3. But what would you write in an article about the locality Maltepe, that would not be duplicating information that belongs in the article about the district/municipality of Maltepe? Markussep Talk 08:21, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The thing is that yes, it’s true, everything would be the same, but the district page would be mainly about the admisitrative unit and not the settlements in it, and the district articles would be cut significantly. If you say this is a loss of enclopeadic information, I say no because everything that is mentioned in the district page about settlements other than Kadıköy are already written in a more detailed manner in their seperate pages. Youprayteas talk/contribs 13:19, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Anyone like to work together on Seismic retrofit?
Merhaba,

I just added this project to Seismic retrofit and rated it high importance. I see it has not yet been translated into Turkish. Is there a native Turkish speaker who would like to work together on improving the English article and later translating it?

It seems to me that might save lives in future, but I don’t have enough Turkish or enough stamina to attempt it by myself. Chidgk1 (talk) 06:28, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Or Urban seismic risk is a much smaller article - come on guys don’t you think this is important? Chidgk1 (talk) 06:27, 7 April 2024 (UTC)


 * I may contribute to it, but will be limited until end of May with this . A lot of translations into Turkish in Turkish Wikpedia seems to be done by bots, that'd be a good starting point. Bogazicili (talk) 18:35, 7 April 2024 (UTC)