Talk:Custer's Revenge

On General Retreat being less offensive
"In this game it is the "woman" who has to overcome various obstacles to have hot sex with "Custer"—who this time is the one tied to the post. Instead of arrows, cannon balls are fired at the woman. General Retreat has often been hailed as the better of the two versions, featuring slightly less questionable material."

Slightly less questionable material? What material? I doubt that the cannon balls vs. arrows aren't "less questionable", so does this imply that it's less questionable if a woman have sex/rape someone? The text should be more clear. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ran4 (talk • contribs) 19:38, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the text you bring to discussion is very clear. The author considers a woman raping a man is less questionble than a man raping a woman, which is a double standard. Aside from documentation of double standarts, I don't think Wikipedia should spread that as if it was neutral. 70.30.185.78 (talk) 22:56, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Matt Ingoglia/Arthur "The Yellow Dart" Pyott (aka Fencer Poot)
Is there any good reason to keep this section? It just seems like vanity to me. Not to mention that the name appears to be rather hazy.

...soiled the image of the Atari 2600

 * ...soiled the image of the Atari 2600.

I removed that part because it's POV and anyway, I can't see why it would be true, since the game was not made by Atari, but by an independent publisher. bogdan 00:28, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * It didn't matter that the game was not made by Atari in the minds of many people. When looking for people to hold responsible, people didn't really distinguish between Atari and Mystique, even though Atari was not really at fault for the game.
 * JesseG 02:10, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

/

Racist
This video game isn't just "pornographic" -- it's racist and depicts rape as a tool of war.

Also, the word "squaw" should be lowercased, and should really be changed to "woman".

What are you talking about?? Squaw is not even tied up, so how is this game depicting rape?

Replaced "rape" with "(sexual) intercourse"
In the description of the game, I replaced the word "rape" with "intercourse" or "sexual intercourse". There was no indication in the game or manual that it was supposed to be rape, that was an interpretation by critics, as stated clearly in the article:

"The game prompted criticism from women's rights groups who stated that the simulation of having sex with a tied-up woman was a simulation of rape."

This sentence does not make sense if the description already talks about rape. — Graf Bobby 00:19, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Referring to the actions in the game as "sexual intercourse" rather than "rape" is an awesome example of WP:WEASEL. Nearly every third party commentator viewed the game as depicting rape.  I've added a couple of citations to that effect.  Nandesuka 15:50, 12 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Sexual intercourse would be correct. Large masses does not equal NPOV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ran4 (talk • contribs) 19:36, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

was this game licensed by Atari?
If so, it would make an interesting contrast to AO games that are refused licensing. Tehw1k1 17:52, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Atari didn't license games. This was something introduced later on by Nintendo to control content on their consoles (and to make money). I imagine the wave of adult games for the 2600 helped them come to that decision, though. -- MisterHand 18:08, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That's what I suspected. I guess that means third parties just figured out how to manufacture Atari carts all on their own? Tehw1k1 07:45, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Of course it should be referred to as rape.
Are you trying to imply that a reasonable person would conclude that the sexual intercourse depicted in that scene was consensual ? You need to rethink your position. The word rape is much more precise than the word intercourse. Albion moonlight 08:30, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It can be quite reasonable to call it "sexual intercourse" without anyone concluding that it's consensual. There are two reasons for this:  first of all, one might imagine that there are people who don't know whether it's consensual or who think there's a possibility that it's consensual.  Secondly, rape is also a subset of the acts of sexual intercourse.  Actually, sexual intercourse may be more specific in terms of the physical act described.
 * If no Wikipedian is willing to state that they think it might be consensual or that they think there are people who think it might be consensual; and if no one can find a reliable source stating anything along those lines;  then perhaps there is no reason to oppose calling it "rape", except the reason Graf Bobby gives, which is that the later sentence doesn't make sense in that context.  Maybe that sentence could be changed.
 * One idea would be to say something like "sexual intercourse, an act described by commentators as rape" and give the footnotes there.
 * Another idea might be to re-order the sentences. If the last sentence of the 1st paragraph is moved to the end of the 2nd paragraph, then maybe the statement about women's rights groups would make more sense even if the other sentence says "rape".
 * If most commentators call it rape, then something needs to be changed because now it gives the impression that it's only women's rights groups who say that.
 * I don't understand Nandesuka's reference to WP:WEASEL. Do you mean that we can't verify with reliable sources that it's sexual intercourse? --Coppertwig 17:25, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it's an improvement that Nadesuka has changed it to "an apparent rape". This seems more accurate than either "rape" or "sexual intercourse". --Coppertwig 17:29, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

I too can live with the phrase an apparent rape. The description sound like rape and nothing else but rape. A woman who is tied up during a raid of her village, in all likelihood did not willfully consent to the sex. I am not arguing the case from a feminist point of view. I do not believe the game should be censored. I just cannot believe all of the denial there is around the milieu of rape. The intention of the games creators seem almost irrelevant in that context. Albion moonlight 01:20, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't know... she looks pretty happy on the box art. 70.58.236.157 (talk) 04:04, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

A Brief Critique and the external link it came from
By all accounts, Custer's Revenge is a horrible game that would have largely been forgotten by now had it not been for the controversy it created. Mystique, it's publisher, had forged a place for itself as developers of erotic software. The little fold out that comes with the game reads, "Until Mystique, video games have been considered by many to be "child's play"... we at Mystique feel that it's time for video games and their adult players to come out of the closet, away from the kids and deal with ADULT fantasies."

Of course, from a design and ethical perspective, what Custer got completely wrong was that it's just not okay to tie a woman to a post and have the in-game avatar rape that character as a "prize." It's probably one of the bigger, "What were you thinking?" moments in video game history.

Mystique also produced other less controversial adult titles, all of which have now been largely forgotten. http://www.igda.org/sex/archives/2005/09/link_of_the_day_33.html.Albion moonlight 09:51, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

comment
My opinion on the game is unsatisfying, The graphics and content toward the game are pathetic. Theres nothing good in this game at all. The only good thing is that proper warnings have been placed on the box art to prevent users from approaching the game. Ironically, its prematurly released and rejeculated(lol) due to the fact it was probably released too early and rejected for its overly below graphic content and such. Davidzx 01:36, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The graphics are terrible but the gameplay is wicked, lol! Anyhow, let's consitrate on fixing this article. mcjakeqcool Mcjakeqcool (talk) 10:26, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Not hard to understand why the company went under. 50 dollars back then, which in today's pricing would be about 70-80$ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.69.168.225 (talk) 21:36, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Deletions
The last deletion, of a claim that the game was sold from behind the counter or removed from stores, strikes me as bizarre for three reasons. It was tagged already for a cite, which was appropriate. It's not hard to believe that it would be sold from behind the counter or pulled from stores, since adult material often is. Finally, calling thirty words or so "long" makes me wonder if some people might be happier watching Teletubbies than trying to write an encyclopedia. Anyhow, I'll try to add some more sources to the article, which is what the person who deleted the material should have done rather than delete the material. Шизомби (Sz) (talk) 14:55, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

I added "military" as a genre
Because General Custer was a military man.--ILoveSky (talk) 01:36, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

ILoveSky I agree because Indians (well presumably Indians) are trying to shoot arrows at General Custer. However i am also not so sure as Military is not the main objective of the game but an obstacle. (unless rapping the Indian Women is some kind of Gorilla Warfare). (Dan of knowledge (talk) 21:34, 24 January 2013 (UTC))

Most expensive game at the time?
According to the article, Custer's Revenge retailed at $49.95. That would equal to about $122 in today's dollars. For its time, I don't know any game more expensive than it. If there is, please name one. 98.119.155.81 (talk) 04:19, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Pretty much definite. With the exception of Virtua Racing, what could be more expensive? 208.54.4.133 (talk) 15:19, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Provide a reliable source stating that this was indeed the most expensive game at the time, and I will stop reverting.--Asher196 (talk) 19:38, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Why are some users such sticklers on this "source" thing? 173.55.37.52 (talk) 15:25, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Without reliable sources, editors could simply make up information.--Asher196 (talk) 16:41, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Is there any reason to doubt the idea besides the citation concern. 172.56.17.180 (talk) 15:58, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Editors making up information? I don't think the user who added info regarding this game's price is lying. 172.56.16.115 (talk) 15:36, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

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External links modified
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"Outlawed"?
"Activists tried pressuring legislators to outlaw the game, which Oklahoma City, Oklahoma did.[8]" I don't have access to the source given, but this has got to be an exaggeration. I don't see how an individual city could "outlaw" anything. They might have banned local stores from selling the game, I suppose, but that's hardly the same thing as "outlawing" it. Jah77 (talk) 14:14, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Rape?
Should the objective of this game really be described as rape? I agree that many people looked at it that way and that criticism should be included. But it doesn't seem like the creators intended it as a simulation of rape. From the game manual, "So press it over and over again as rapidly as you can. Watch how the maiden smiles and kicks up her heels and Custer 'flips his lid'." It seems like the objective of the game should just be described as having sex with the maiden, not raping her. I'm open to evidence that the devs intended a more malicious objective but I don't the sourcing on the page adequate prove that. ― TaltosKieronTalk 21:47, 15 January 2023 (UTC)