Talk:Frag Dolls

Skill
Based on recent edits removing references to skill and whether it should be part of this entry, I am requesting any citation of skill to decide this issue. Zeashe 00:26, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Update
Unfortunately this discussion is fraught with opinion on both sides. The Frag Dolls, while definitely not "booth babes" are not up to the same standards that are held for most professional teams. The fact is they are marketing for Ubisoft first, and players second. This doesn't mean they aren't professionals, or that their skill should be part of the article, but people who keep up with the pro circuit know this - and Zeashe probabaly should too. rmcelroy90@msn.com

A quick search for "Frag Dolls Tournament" turns up several links citing evidence of tournament participation and placement - the topmost entry cites #1 placement out of 32 teams.


 * http://www.gameinatrix.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=508
 * http://xbox.gamebattles.com/game/rainbow-six-lockdown/news_871p1.html
 * http://www.xequted.com/articles/104.html

Fallout01, Please support with evidence of poor performance in tournaments. Based on past contributions you've had the same complaint about other entries. Zeashe 00:26, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Just this past weekend there was a moderately large Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter tournament in Texas at the very large Intel Summer Championship event. The Frag Dolls entered two teams in the somewhat small tournament (only 22 teams) and combined finished with a record of 1-4. Both teams recieved byes the first round, for some unknown reason, which allowed them to advance further in the tournament without playing a single game. Both teams left the tournament placing tied for last (Blonde team), and second to last (Brunette team).

http://dpad.gotfrag.com/portal/story/33381/

A few months prior Frag Dolls also entered two teams in the Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter tournament at the Lanwar 2006 event, and both teams finished winless.

http://www.ampedesports.com/news/2448

As for the so-called "1st place win" at PAX 2004, that was a promotional event for a game that had not been released yet (Rainbow 6: Black Arrow), and had been played for weeks prior by the girls. As for the competition at the event, there were no organized teams, and no opponents who had ever played the game before. Beating up on terrible people is not an accomplishment, especially when you're playing a game that you know well, and the opponents have never played. Two of the three above citations referencing a win by the Frag Dolls point to this event.

In the few cases where the Frag Dolls have played in tournaments with reasonable competition, they have been completely destroyed. From their performance at actual tournaments where the participants actually have played the game in question, the Frag Dolls have a record of 1-6.

I'm certain the Frag Dolls have participated in other tournaments, but I can't find any reference to it on their site, and from that I can stipulate that they didn't perform that well at those either.

Fallout01 16:26, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

According to the Tom_Clancy's Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield wiki Rainbow Six 3: Black Arrow was released several weeks prior to the event at which the Frag Dolls claimed the #1 tournament spot referenced in the above links. (According to the Penny Arcade Expo wiki the event was held on August 28 and 29, 2004. The game in question was released August 5 of the same year.  Unless proof can be found of the tournament's demographic, I will have to consider the claim of "no organized teams" to be hearsay, based on your incorrect information about the game availability at the time of the disputed tournament.

According to these standings from the Intel Summer Championship event, one of the 2 Frag Doll teams placed 5th in the single elimination and the other placed 7th. While not at the top, out of 22 teams that score demonstrates a measure of competency. Further, the standings from the previous Lanwar tournament you mentioned (available from the same source, the E-Sports Entertainment Association, referenced via the World Series of Video Games website and appearing to be the official source of standings) indicate a 7th and 9th place finish for the same two Frag Doll teams, ending at about 50%, or average. Again, it is not an impressive finish, but enough to indicate a measure of skill.

If you wish to further dispute the references in this wiki entry, please cite sources. Thus far your information has proved to be incorrect on all counts. Though you may disapprove of a clan that certainly appears to be a marketing ploy, please make your arguments for the editing of the wiki based on fact rather than opinion.

Zeashe 05:57, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

There will be no way to verify the demographic of those in attendance at the Penny Arcade expo, as like most promotional events, the press won't put much effort into covering a small tournament without any serious competition present. I was at the event, and not a single person participating beyond the Frag Dolls had played the game before (this was complained about by many tournament participants, who felt it was unfair), and this was coming directly from the tournament participants. The release date does seem to be prior to event which could make it a possibile for those participating to have played the game, but regardless, three weeks is an extremely short time between release and tournament play.

As for the tournament results, take note how these "wins" occurred. At the Intel Summer Championships, both Frag Dolls teams receieved a BYE first round. On the ISC website, this BYE is listed as a win, but the reality is no match was played. This allowed both teams to skip single elimination, and they finished 1-4. If you include the BYE in first round, their record would be 3-4. 3-4 is still a losing record. They finished ranked above other teams solely because of the first round bye.

At the Lanwar event, both Frag Dolls teams lucked out with a first round match up against no shows. Both Code 25 and Rhino Dogs did not attend the event and the Frag Dolls advanced to the next round without playing.

Between all tournament matches, this puts them at 2-8. If BYEs or forfiet wins are included, that record goes to 6-8. Even with the many forfiets and byes, I don't think any reasonable person could call that performance "average".

Fallout01 18:26, 23 July 2006 (UTC)