Talk:Piri piri

Older discussion copied from Talk:African birdseye
NB: for reference and continuity, older discussion appearing at the talk page of the former title of this article, African birdseye, copied below.--cjllw ʘ  TALK 14:06, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Nando's
Did Nando's really popularise peri-peri, or was it already popular? I hadn't heard of Nando's until a few months ago but I'd heard of peri-peri long before. Marketing text, or is it actually the case that Nando's introduced and popularised peri-peri in some places? Nach0king 18:53, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Piri-Piri is not Malagueta. These are two different things! Piri-Piri is very small and hot, while Malagueta is larger, less hot. I'm a piri-piri fan and I even cultivate it. LOL. In Portugal piri-piri has always been popular, especially since the descolonization with a lot of people returning from Africa ( never heard of Nando's - it seems an ad ). Piri-piri is used in chicken grill in Portuguese cuisine, it was influenced by Mozambican one. In Angola another kind of chilli Pepper is more popular, the Jindungo. see pic of jindungo: Jindungo. So I don't think that Piri-Piri is used in Brazil at all (as the African culture in Brazil is linked with Angola), and most Brazilians that I know always confuse piri-piri with malagueta, because they never heard of piri-piri before, if in Angola piri-piri was more popular I would not doubt that. Citation needed for that section. BTW nice name it has in English, it is really an African devil. LOL.--Pedro 20:43, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * ooops... internationally...--Pedro 01:01, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Nando's is a trade name for a chain of restaurants that serves peri peri chicken in South Africa (possibly instead of curry chicken). I first came to know peri peri in Mozambique where in the local cafes one would see it as a liquid sauce on the tables and used to spice up the food very much like salt and pepper. The liquid version is very hot and usually made with oil. There was also a dried powdered version which seemed not to be so hot. The Mozambicans told me that the chillie came from Zimbabwe and was called Birds eye chillie, also Zimbabwean birds eye or African Birds eye and was originally used for trade with the Portuguese traders. It is also rumored that the Africans used to use it for trade with the Egyptians. (Mdek August 2006)

“where Portuguese explorers developed the homonymous cultivar from malagueta pepper.[2]l If you research the malagueta pepper you will find it is from the island Christopher Colombus landed on. BrendanKennedy (talk) 20:38, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Malagueta pepper is from the island Christopher Columbus landed on so it is from America. BrendanKennedy (talk) 20:38, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

African birdseye & piri-piri
In this article, African birdseye is equal with piri-piri in Portuguese. However, in the taxonomy article of Capsicum, African birdseye belongs to the Capsicum frutescens species, while piri-piri belongs to Capsicum Pendulum species. Which one is the correct one? &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 22:43, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Chilli padi
Is this the same thing? If so, should we merge? Dwiki 02:30, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

African or South American?
Something I read in Nando's stores implies the "peri-peri" originates from the east coast of Africa. Yet chili peppers aren't native to Africa - the chili pepper article says "Chili peppers and their various cultivars originate in the Americas."

I assume the Portuguese must have carried the pili pili to Africa from Brazil? --Chriswaterguy talk 05:05, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * It seems some peppers are indigenous to Africa and others to the Americas. I am not sure about pili pili but Aframomum melegueta is West AfricanMuntuwandi 05:29, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * This article [] says that the original pepper was Aframomum melegueta known as Melegueta or Piri-Piri (Swahili for Pepper Pepper) commonly used in Portugal as a spice - when the Portuguese got to Mexico they found Capsicum Frutescens and named it Melegueta or Piri-Piri as well and brought it back to Portugal and this is what is used in Piri-Piri sauce today .. to add to the confusion the main cultivar used is Capsicum Frutescens "African birdseye"  even though it is a native of South America ... lɘɘяɘM яɘɫƨɐƮ 12:30, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

PAGE MOVED per discussion below. Also, I tried some googling, and by filtering out pages with the word "wikipedia" and restricting the search to pages in English, I got 77,100 for "piri piri" and 28,100 for "pili pili", so WP:COMMONNAME seems to indicate going with the former. -GTBacchus(talk) 03:33, 30 April 2007 (UTC) If the proper Portuguese spelling is piri piri, and the article mostly refers to it as the piri piri, why is the article named pili pili? I tried finding out which name was most popular, but I think it being on wikipedia (and several copy sites) makes this test somewhat inaccurate. A googlefight of the two leaves piri piri as the clear victor/victrix.--Lionelbrits 16:09, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Survey - in support of the move

 * Support, reason given in the request--Lionelbrits 16:22, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Discussion
Add any additional comments

piri piri is fine, but it is not a clear victory, it seems they are almost used equally.Muntuwandi 17:50, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
 * See piri piri (230 000 hits) v.s. pili pili (133 000 hits)--Lionelbrits 02:52, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

peri peri 168,000. if its a runoff pili pili is still in. But I do not oppose a move, the other variants should of course be mentioned.Muntuwandi 03:19, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Peri Peri is the spelling I'm familiar with, but perhaps because I'm a Nando's fan.--Lionelbrits 01:03, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

we can go with piri piri, but they are all the same. Its like to-ma-to and to-may-toMuntuwandi 01:20, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Cut and paste move from African birdseye to Pili pili repaired
I have fixed the cut and paste move made here back in Dec 06, when Pili pili was created as a cut'n'paste from African birdseye, which had a non-trivial edit history. The edit histories of these two pages are now merged at Pili pili.

Please note, cut'n'paste moves are generally undesirable since the edit history (a record needed to fulfill some GFDL licensing conditions) becomes lost and disassociated from the article.

It should now be possible (for an admin, at least) to simply move this article to whatever target is determined in the 'Requested move' discussion above, or even to move it back to the original at African birdseye, without losing the overall edit history. Cheers, --cjllw ʘ  TALK 14:41, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

um
Why isn't this just named "african birdseye" SNN2 (talk) 05:21, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Origin of Kuga Kuga
I think there must be a mistake, research and memory tells me that swahili for chilli is piri piri or pili pili (r and l are often interchangeable in swahili) so I don't know where kuga kuga comes from?

Article should be deleted
There are very few articles in Wikipedia as bad as this one. It is severely flawed.

How can we have an article about a plant that is grown in half the known world, but describe it only as far as it applies to Mozambique and its Portuguese and Portuguese-India influence? The author demonstrates that he knows nothing about chillies, Portugal, Mozambique and Angola (it is NOT called piri-piri in Angola and only sometimes and recently does it get referred to as piri-piri in Portugal).

Piri-piri is not a cultivar, not even a species - it is a generic term for a preparation of hot chillies.

Then a paragraph on malagueta and Brazil is just idiotic, when in Brazil there are numerous types of chillies (and with different names) that would correspond to what the author here is trying to describe as piri-piri.

The part about Nando's is simply preposterous! I live in South Africa, my home language is Portuguese, I was born in Angola, I watch mostly Brazilian television at home.

There is nothing in this article to justify it that cannot be covered in the article on chillies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rui Gabriel Correia (talk • contribs) 22:22, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * In Portugal, piri-piri and malagueta (the chilli pepper) are two different peppers. Piri-piri is a preparation of hot chillies (piri-piri peppers), it can be generic: because of the popularity of the name or not: in stores, preparations made out of regular chilli peppers do not have piri-piri name in it and do not taste the same, although of course it is similar! Some companies claim they create this preparation for over a century, but these hot chillies are made out of piri-piri peppers. Currently piri-piri is also sold fresh in many big market chains. People even put it in olive oil to give flavour to it, this tradition seems old. It can also be used for decoration growing in a vase. The article is very poor because many Portuguese do not collaborate in wikipedia, you can see that in several wikipedia articles. --Pedro (talk) 13:11, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Fruity aroma
Any reliable sources about the very strong fruity (mango, pineapple) aroma of this chili pepper? Bright☀ 19:21, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

A cultivar developed by explorers?
I'm skeptical of the unsourced claim that this cultivar was originally developed "in Mozambique by Portuguese explorers". Developing a cultivar is a long, slow process taking many growing seasons (years)&mdash;a process that is incompatible with being an explorer.

Perhaps the writer meant "Portuguese settlers", but even that is not supported by any citation. How do we know that those who developed this cultivar were even Portuguese? Perhaps the Portuguese brought chili peppers to Mozambique and the locals eventually developed this variety, or perhaps it naturally developed through cross-pollination of two pepper varieties that were separately brought into the region.

There are many possible ways peri peri could have originated, and all we seem to have here is speculation stated as fact. I added a "citation needed" note. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ScribeMonk (talk • contribs) 18:14, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

"Peri-peri (Portuguese source)" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Peri-peri (Portuguese source). The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 14 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Sahaib3005 (talk) 22:43, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 3 March 2024

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 16:34, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Peri-peri → Piri piri – "Piri piri" was the title before an undiscussed move to the present title and seems marginally more popular (Nando's notwithstanding) according to Google Ngrams (though there are many false positives in earlier years). —  AjaxSmack 02:48, 3 March 2024 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose Ngrams stops in 2019, which was 5 years ago. It shows that the use of piri-piri was declining and peri-peri was rising. It may be that in those five years the use of peri-peri has increased beyond piri-piri. A search on Google Books gives me 463,000 results for piri piri and piri-piri while for peri-peri and peri peri it gives me 13,900,000 results. If only including the 21st century, it is 158,000 vs 3,060,000 in favour of peri-peri. Normal Google web results also favour peri-peri by a similarly large ratio. This all leads me to believe that peri-peri is the WP:COMMONNAME. Arnav Bhate (talk) 06:39, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Support per Walrasiad. While I do get more results for peri peri, using multiple filters gives me nearly equal results for both but a lot of the peri peri results are not related to the pepper. Arnav Bhate (talk) 06:35, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Support. Piri Piri seems used more generally in English, whereas Peri Peri is more narrowly South African.  Not sure how you got your googlebook results, but there certainly aren't 463,000 things about this pepper ever written in the history of humankind. Poking into Googlebook results is instructive. "Piri piri" results are very many cookbooks from a wide variety of countries (US, India, etc.) over a long period, whereas "peri peri" results, there are fewer cookbooks and  much more recent date (post-2019, suggesting Wiki's own title might be affecting things WP:CITOGEN).  Walrasiad (talk) 10:10, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * There are a lot of false positives. Thanks for doing the work of perusing the results. —  AjaxSmack  06:30, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Support 'peri-peri' doesn't primary refer to the pepper, so counting hits for it doesn't show anything. Searching 'peri-peri' on google books and scholar doesn't return any hits for the pepper in the first few pages. 'Piri-piri' returns stuff about the pepper—blindlynx 16:22, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * At least for me Google Books did give a few cookbooks in the first page on searching for peri-peri. I would assume that they would be related to the pepper. Arnav Bhate (talk) 06:38, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I get one on the first page and a few more on page 3 ...either way they are decidedly in the minority of hits—blindlynx 15:08, 5 March 2024 (UTC)