Talk:Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar

Game cracking trivia
Stop re-adding the "trivia" of who cracked the game. If you want a topic of who cracked what games and what was their last work, then create new article going by the name of the cracker and possibly a link page of all crackers for particular computer etc.


 * Why? This is a valid piece of trivia, and it is relevant specifically to this game when it was released as it made news throughout the Apple gaming community. "Hot Rod" was one of the most prolific crackers in the Apple community and this was also the first high-profile "retirement" of a game cracker, which consisted of an open letter to gamers explaining what he was doing. I'm adding it back. Why do you object to this entry since you can't even be bothered to identify who you are in deleting it. bcRIPster 01:40, 26 December 2005 (MST)

[Correction/addendum removed to this discussion as it was posted in the wrong title]Landon Statis (talk) 09:46, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

SMS version
Is it worth mentioning the Sega Master System version of the game? Or is the NES version only mentioned because of its slight change in style? The SMS version is similar, aside from new graphics and conversation selected from a menu. --wht.rbt 14:34, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Might be worth mentioning in the NES section then. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 15:34, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

The statement "Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar for the Master System is the first (and only) Ultima to be ported to a Sega console" isn't entirely accurate. There was a port of Ultima Underworld in production at some point for the SegaCD, but it never actually got released. http://www.segacollection.com/specials/tomkinterview.htm mentions it in a vintage article, but I don't know if that counts for a cite. Would a simple change to "Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar for the Master System is the first (and only) Ultima to be released for a Sega console" be a problem?76.226.204.123 (talk) 05:02, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

The big unanswered question...
...would be this: Exactly what conditions led to the thing that Ultima IV is now distributed everywhere? I believe it had something to do with Richard Garriott personally allowing Ultima Dragons to distribute the game under some conditions. I recently found some article but I think I lost it. Anyone? --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 12:06, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, Home of the Underdogs refers to Origin releasing it as freeware as part of a marketing campaign for Ultima IX.  Auric's Ultima Moongates  has, under the 'Ultima History' for Ultima IV, references to this release, but notes it is not freeware. (I'm wondering if Auric is or was confused between freeware and public domain.)  There's also a trivia comment in MobyGames' site for U4, but all these instances I've found probably don't count as RS.   Anything sounding remotely authorative refer to the Ultima Dragons fan club being given specific permission for free redestribution of U4 in 1997.  U9 came out in 1999, so the Dragons' citations of authority end up being outdated...

This'd be so much easier if Origin still existed! :) --Empath 22:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

It definitely wasn't JUST the Dragons being given authority to distribute the game, as several game magazines put the game on their cover discs when it was made "freeware" or whatever the case is. They would've been sued if only the Dragons were allowed.76.226.204.123 (talk) 05:07, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Freegamesdownload link removed
I removed the download link. It directs to a site where you could download the game, however, only If you pay. The site is infamous for stealing reviews and links from other game sites. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.249.219.50 (talk) 15:37, 22 April 2007 (UTC).

Rational discussion about external link inclusions
Ok, so trying to take a more calm approach to this issue. I assert that there is value in having links to these maps, irregardless to where they are hosted. What would others here suggest to do in this situation. I know that people have been downloading these maps over the last two years since I can see the logs on the server they are hosted on... confirming to me that 20 years later people are still interested in them. There is no other host at this point, and probably only one other potential site in my mind that would be an appropriate place to host them (textfiles.com). I get no personal gain out of providing files these short the personal satisfaction of helping keep them available for people who want them.BcRIPster (talk) 01:19, 28 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't see how a link to the maps adds any value to the article... At least the game link was to the actual game harlock_jds (talk) 01:36, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Do we need a refimprove tag?
Specifically, what information is in dispute here? All information can be found in the games themselves, or any number of books written about them. The Official Book of Ultima is already used as a reference. That covers everything said.  D r e a m Focus  19:17, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 * That would be all original research. Lots of essay like claims, etc... unsupported by citations with page numbers. Yes. Needed.Bali ultimate (talk) 19:18, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Can you find any exact sentence you think needs a reference, and put a citation needed tag by it?  D r e a m Focus  19:23, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

GOG link
The article claims GOG offers this game for free, but it's only listed as for $5.99. You need to cite this as something that happened in the past, potentially. -- 72.205.227.164 (talk) 21:03, 22 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I changed the text. Ckruschke (talk) 19:40, 26 November 2012 (UTC)Ckruschke
 * I changed it back. It is still free. http://www.gog.com/gamecard/ultima_4   D r e a m Focus  19:47, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Note, they sell 4, 5, and 6 together for that price, but just 4 alone is free.  D r e a m Focus  19:48, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Drive way instead of killing?
Concerning this recent edit, can someone confirm this who played the original computer version? I only played the Nintendo version of part four myself, so I don't know.  D r e a m Focus  05:58, 27 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I played the PC version and I know that you couldn't open chests out in the open or attack friendlies, but I don't remember the larger consequences behind it. Kind of a minor deal, but I'll see if I can find a copy of the PC directions on-line. Ckruschke (talk) 18:44, 28 April 2014 (UTC)Ckruschke
 * The section above I link to where you can get a legal free version of the game, which also comes with "manual, map, cluebook, spellbook, interview with Richard Garriott, and reference card".  D r e a m Focus  20:07, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

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Gameplay
"however, even in the first three Ultimas where they could be chosen as player characters, there were never any non-player characters of those non-human races" Not exactly true. NPCs didn't necessarily have a race, except the civilized orcs in Ultima 2. Everyone else could have been elves, for all the player knows.

"give alms to the poor to improve their sacrifice". Should be "donate blood to healers".

"never flee from battle to improve their honor." Should be "improve their valor".

"stealing crops for food (lowering honesty)". Crops didn't exist to be stolen until U5; maybe "stealing gold in towns".

"such as attacking an NPC while they sleep." NPCs didn't sleep until U5; maybe "attacking an NPC in town".

"In at least one case, a player is asked 'who sent you?', which may require yet another round trip between cities." False; this was in U5, not U4. Scottman 01 (talk) 23:31, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Most of these are redundant to the section about virtues, anyway. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 01:41, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Quite possibly, yeah. There are several redundancies throughout this article. Scottman 01 (talk) 11:50, 3 May 2018 (UTC)


 * The Nintendo version had donating blood to gain Sacrifice virtue. I believe it was originally donating money to the poor.   D r e a m Focus  01:52, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Maybe. I know this was debated a few years ago. But in the C-64, Apple II, and PC versions, giving money to beggars always raises/raised compassion. Scottman 01 (talk) 11:50, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Versions
"The C64 port was the first in the series to take full advantage of the computer's hardware rather than simply converting the sound and graphics from the Apple II, and include in-game music." This seems odd to me. Ultima 2 was the first in the series to take advantage of the C-64's graphics. Ultima 3 was the first in the series to take advantage of the C-64's sound. I wonder if I'm misunderstanding what's said here, in which case, some clarifications could be in order...? Scottman 01 (talk) 11:58, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Plot
"Stygian Abyss" links to both the River Styx and the proverbial hole to Hell -- neither of which have to do with Ultima 4, other than by derivative name. Scottman 01 (talk) 18:35, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Virtues
"Humility: None, though it is considered the root of all Virtue." This is a tricky one. It is explained (in Addams' Complete Ultima, for one such source) that Pride, not Humility, is the trait that is derived from the lack of Truth, Love, and Courage. But Pride, noted Garriott, is not a virtue at all, and so its opposite is revered as the foundation to which all other Virtues are built: Humility. Scottman 01 (talk) 21:23, 3 May 2018 (UTC) So pride touches nothing, allowing humility? What does the game manual say about it?  D r e a m Focus  00:39, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The actual quote is "Since it touches none of the virtues, I call this large outer ring Pride. One element of Ultima IV is the fact that there Is a City for each of the virtues. Pride isn’t a virtue, but the City for Pride has been destroyed, and so you have to make a personal judgment that Pride is wrong, and use Humility as a virtue instead.”"