User talk:Epipelagic/Archive 2008



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Welcome!
 Hi, and welcome to the Military history WikiProject! As you may have guessed, we're a group of editors working to improve Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to military history.

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A tag has been placed on John Lambert (naval historian), requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article seems to be blatant advertising which only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become an encyclopedia article. Please read the general criteria for speedy deletion, particularly item 11, as well as the guidelines on spam.

If you can indicate why the subject of this article is not blatant advertising, you may contest the tagging. To do this, please add  on the top of the article and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would help make it encyclopedic, as well as adding any citations from reliable sources to ensure that the article will be verifiable. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Arx Fortis (talk) 06:32, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

HMNZS Resolution (A14)
This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of HMNZS Resolution (A14), and it appears to be very similar to another wikipedia page: :. It is possible that you have accidentally duplicated contents, or made an error while creating the page&mdash; you might want to look at the pages and see if that is the case.

This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot (talk) 05:35, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Use "Move" feature
Hi. I seen you where trying to move HMNZS Resolution (A-14) to HMNZS Resolution (A14). Instead of copy and paste the page contents and using redirect, its better use the "Move" feature in wikipedia. The previous page will automatically get a redirect to the new one and the history and talk pages will be copied over as well. Now its not possible to move the page without administrator intervention. :-) --ZacBowlingtalk 05:41, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Lake class PBs
I used the link in sources and links at the Lake class patrol boat page, which has all the pennant numbers. I'm not sure why someone din't see this before. In future, better to use the ship's year of commissioning - like 'HMNZS Kelburn (2009)' rather than HMNZS Kelburn (X) if you don't know the pennant number. Cheers Buckshot06 (talk) 07:08, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

HMNZS Canterbury (F421) - false claims
When you change the name of an article (also known as a move), please do NOT do so by copying over the text! That effectively destroys the integrity of the history. If you cannot move an article because the target name already exist, please call an admin to help - he can move it over the existing name, and keep the history intact. Ingolfson 13:31, 30 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Looking closely at the issue, you also violated the rules by creating this as a "new article" (by copying it over from HMNZS Canterbury (F-421)), then set it up to be published on the main page in the DYK category as an article "which you created or substantially expanded". This is incorrect, because:


 * a) the article would not have been valid for DYK (creation or x5 expansion within the last days before main page publication)
 * b) you actually REDUCED the article in scope and content (which I will yet revert, once I have time to look at it closely)
 * c) the text was and is mainly composed of research and wording that I (for the text) and others (for the technical data) did - and not your work. Heck, even the image is mine.


 * I am not quite sure what to think of your actions. They are certainly against policy and very impolite. Ingolfson 13:48, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Whoa... well now that I've stopped reeling from the upper cuts and kicks to the groin, let me 'fess up and admit that, yes, I am indeed just a bumbling rookie editor trying to learn the ropes.

I have been trying to fill in some of the gaps and tidy up the entries on historic RNZN ships. One glaring problem was inconsistent formats with the ship pendant numbers. Australian and British practice seemed to be to exclude spaces or dashes so I asked an established editor of Royal Navy articles to confirm this, which he did. Then I committed the first of my sins. I thought I could do this by copying and pasting (I have asked for this to be repaired). My next sin was to remove some details you had apparently entered concerning preparation for the sinking of the Canterbury. This was because the event was over, the ship was sunk, and a lot of the contemporary details were now past and receding into history. If that offends you then just restore your text.

My third sin, it seems, was to "set it up to be published on the main page in the DYK category". Well that was the last thing on my mind, and I was completely surprised when that happened.

And my final sin, it seems, was that I claimed this article "as an article "which you (myself) created or substantially expanded"". Well that again was the last thing on my mind. When I "created" the article I put a summary there that said that it was redirected from Canterbury (F-421).

So please accept my apologies Ingolfson if you feel trampled upon. I would like us to work together rather than in opposition like this. --Geronimo20 21:06, 30 November 2007 (UTC)


 * My apologies in turn as per comment on my own page. Ingolfson 08:39, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Torpedo boat destroyer
Maybe I missed the point. I'd put in Steam Torpedo Boat (hoping the page got created) because it's ancestral, & Steam Gun Boat & Farmile C as related subjects, which is the idea, isn't it? Trekphiler 07:49, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Not offended one bit. I didn't know about the other pages. If she's shipping water over the deck, jettison. Or shoot a line across & unload her. ;) Trekphiler 08:18, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXI (November 2007)
The November 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot 01:34, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

mindstream
wow man..you weren't kidding! i started cracking up as soon as the page loaded. il ike how heavily sourced the article is...but sourced with translations of foreign texts. Did the translators invent a word to make the translations more intelligibile? unlikely. New agers have this damn tendency to see unassociated and even completely disconnected paradgims as equivalent (there's a word for when people do that, i just can't remember what it is .... synchronism?).

Some other articles that can make a fun read are New age, Time travel, Shaman and Ramtha. That last one isn't written particularly poorly, it's just a funny topic. here's a quote:

"When Knight claims she is channelling Ramtha, she speaks only English, although in an accented and sometimes simplistic way and has expressed confusion about modern items ("What is a carrot?") while also professing intimate knowledge of worldly affairs and conspiracies."

--Shaggorama 03:07, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Formatting - List of ships of the Royal New Zealand Navy
Glad to be of help. To be honest I don't know why non-breaking spaces are needed. They are recommended though, see Help:Table and the paragraph just above the "Examples" heading. "For empty cells, use the non-breaking space  as content to ensure that the cells are displayed."

I've found that if double pipes are used as in the Help:Table example, the non-breaking spaces aren't needed. BTW (By-The-Way), the change took only a few minutes - I cut and pasted into MS Word, used "Find and Replace"/"Replace All" and pasted it back into the Wikipedia edit page.

Regards, JohnI (talk) 09:34, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Tone on Naval trawler
Hi Geronimo20, let me explain. The issue there was the following lines: "Replace the trawl with a mine sweep and you had a minesweeper. Trawlers also have large clear working decks which can be suitable for depth charge racks. Add asdic and a 4-inch gun up front and you had an anti-submarine boat." Take a look at the suggestions under WP:TONE; wikipedia articles should try to avoid the use of "I", "we", "you", and "your" in favor of a more formal tone. Thanks for your contribution; I'll fix it and remove the tag. Regards, Pnswmr (talk) 14:49, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Re: Royal Naval Patrol Service
Hi Geronimo20, Have you tried searching the Imperial War Museum's database at: http://collections.iwm.org.uk/server/show/nav.00g005 ? British government photos from World War II are also now in the public domain. A photo of one of the Patrol's ships should also be obtainable, and would be a better illustration of the service than a photo of a German mine off Australia. --Nick Dowling (talk) 06:56, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm no expert on British copyright laws, but I believe that WW2-era photos on the IWM database are now out of copyright and can be used. You'd need to pay to get a version without the watermark though. --Nick Dowling (talk) 10:05, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

HMNZS Rotoiti details
Hey there, I'm just uploading a photo of this ship and I noticed that in the information box on the right it says "Status: Fitting out" when it's now active. I went to edit the page but couldn't see how to change it and, seeing as you're a major contributor to this article I was wondering if you knew how to..(?)

Thanks, Kotare (talk) 10:05, 21 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Sorry yeah I just assumed she was active seeing as I saw her out on the water - is this sort of info. just availible on the NZ navy website? Kotare (talk) 04:43, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I have made no false claims!
I would be grateful if you could discuss this on my discussion page before deleting things. For example, I never said I created Hundred Years' War (1337–1360) but did dispute a significant claim that Edward III’s caused an Italian banking crisis. Chwyatt (talk) 08:38, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, I saw the edit history before I saw you reversed it. Cheers Chwyatt (talk) 08:58, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Wow...
Thank you! I shall pass your congratulations onto my friend who created the animations for me.

Please, nitpick away... this has to get to Featured Article status, and the more we can get right now, the less I have to worry about later. -- saberwyn 10:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election
The Military history WikiProject coordinator selection process is starting. We are aiming to elect nine coordinators to serve for the next six months; if you are interested in running, please sign up here by February 14! TomStar81 (Talk) 04:36, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIII (January 2008)
The January 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 23:55, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Milhist coordinators election has started

 * The February 2008 Military history WikiProject coordinator election has begun. We will be selecting nine coordinators to serve for the next six months from a pool of fifteen candidates.  Please vote here by February 28. -- R OGER D AVIES   talk 22:51, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Early naval vessels of New Zealand
Thanks for Early naval vessels of New Zealand, it's really well done. Quale (talk) 22:10, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Geographical coordinates
Hello, I responded to you harshly in Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Geographical coordinates. I meant to simply convey that you are more than welcome to improve the article(s) you feel need it, but in ignoring the rest of your question I sounded like I was shrugging you off. It was not my intent to do that. I was in a hurry to use a template response and didn't realize how sharp it sounded. I apologize, and thanks for your contributions to WikiPedia. Zab (talk) 21:04, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Sandbox and thermal weapons
I spotted your sandbox on the "what links here" for Early thermal weapons, so I admit to random curiosity (I was quite excited to see someone had noticed, and benefitted from my recent work). Anyway, apologies for working in your sandbox, but I thought I'd plug in those refs and sort out the invalid tag for you; I know what it's like to borrow refs and then not remember later where they came from. Also, came across this picture which is no good for me, but might be of interest for you. All the best for your work; it looks good. I've a few books which might be of interest, see my library. Let me know if you want me to source anything else. Apologies again for being nosy! Gwinva (talk) 03:46, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Early Naval sources
I use, generally regarded as the definitive record of the Royal Navy, as a starting point. There's also Ben Warlow's shore establishments, which I use to supplement that at times. Lavery's Ship of the Line is good for a more detailed study of the early navy, as are David Gardiner and Rif Winfield's works. For more recent naval history, Janes is usually very good as well. For the ship disambiguation pages like HMS Sparrow its mostly Colledge. Hope this helps. Benea (talk) 00:08, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Navy ship lists
Answered on my page. Ingolfson (talk) 04:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIV (February 2008)
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Ship disambiguation
Yes I'd noticed you'd filled in a few more, so thanks very much for that. As to the style used on HMS Halcyon, I assume you specifically mean the way it says 'The first Halcyon was...', 'The second Halcyon was...'. I think we had a discussion a while back now (it'll be in the archives somewhere though) where we looked at different styles and options. Doing it the way as demonstrated on HMS Halcyon was a bit problematic, because often the original editors didn't have the full details, so months and years down the line other editors have to insert extra ships here and there. With Colledge that problem is alleviated somewhat but it was still thought to be better because you often find instances where a ship is described as HMS so-and-so but is not in Colledge, because she was never formally commissioned, (see HMS Foylebank and HMS Royal Ulsterman for two recent examples). Another example is the hundreds of small craft like rescue tugs, minesweeping trawlers etc which again aren't true HMSes but it makes sense to describe them as such on here. I think that's why a basic bullet point HMS Halcyon was a ... approach was adopted.

You're definitely right to say that getting a standardised style would be good though. I tend to follow Colledge quite closely, putting in ship type and class, year of launch and year of departure from service, and any significant details like a change of name, a rebuild, a reduction to the reserve, etc. In otherwords, exactly as you've been doing them so far. This pretty much follows the guidelines here, except I don't put the disambiguation information in the link, as I think it's somewhat redundant and even potentially a little misleading. The disambiguation pages like HMS Halcyon are probably old outdated ones that haven't been overhauled in a long time, so feel free to amend them to look like the ones you've been creating already. I do odd ones I come across, so eventually we ought to meet in the middle and they'll all be standardised. If you're ok with the style you're using I'd say carry on, unless there's specific things you want to address? I think I've rambled a bit, so I hope that was of some help. Give me a bell if not. Pip pip! Benea (talk) 02:58, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Misc. ship lists of the Royal New Zealand Navy
Hello, Geronimo20. In doing some assessments on several articles you've created, I'd like to make a suggestion. You've got several stub articles about a specific type of ship in the RNZN, such as Survey ships of the Royal New Zealand Navy and Logistic ships of the Royal New Zealand Navy. I think it would be much better to merge the articles into something similar to List of German Navy ships, for example. It would make more sense to have everything together on one page, where it could be eventually worked into a featured list. Anyways, feel free to disagree with me, just thought I'd make a suggestion. Regards, Parsecboy (talk) 16:51, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Parsecboy and thanks for your comment. The list you suggested already exists. What I have in mind for what you call "misc. ship lists" is, not for them to remain as lists, but to develop the history and story of the roles the boats played. For example the boats in Logistic ships of the Royal New Zealand Navy had some historical involvement in Antarctic research. At the moment it's just a stub so I could get the navigational panel on the right operating. Perhaps it's overkill! :) --Geronimo20 (talk) 01:35, 14 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, OK, I see what you intend for the articles. Sounds good to me. Regards, Parsecboy (talk) 01:45, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Scharnhorst
I apologize for zealously stepping into a drawn out wiki war =) over the ships classes. This is an argument that nether side will budge on, nothing I can post or say can change that, but in naval classification and in historical publications these ships are classified as battlecrusers. Due to their speed, armor and armament. I will no longer attempt to change this page (in respect to its class). Sonar610 (talk) 02:37, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Exmouth
My mistake. Rjm at sleepers (talk) 08:13, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

RE: Adding whitespace with Advisor.js
It actually removes trailing whitespaces, not add them. --EoL talk 23:44, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Fish product sales
A tag has been placed on Fish product sales, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing no content to the reader. Please note that external links, "See also" section, book reference, category tag, template tag, interwiki link, rephrasing of the title, or an attempt to contact the subject of the article don't count as content. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. If you plan to expand the article, you can request that administrators wait a while for you to add contextual material. To do this, affix the template   to the page and state your intention on the article's talk page. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 23:23, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Before you go telling someone off, you really need to follow WP:AGF. Also if the article does not meet WP:V, WP:N and WP:RS, as your article did not, it can be deleted. The number of links does not determine if an article is deleted or not. If there are a large number of links, it merely indicates that if a notable article can be created it is needed. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:55, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXV (March 2008)
The March 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 01:18, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

New fishing template
Good work on the new template "fishing other topics." I'm just letting you know that I changed the link for cormorants to Cormorant and am removing the template from Cormorant Fishing on the Nagara River. It's better to keep the links to general articles. Douggers (talk) 14:03, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

McClane ref
Hi. Sorry, I didn't realize that I removed this reference. Perhaps it was when I was reverting vandalism? It sounds like it should be there, so please replace it. Thanks Bob98133 (talk) 20:50, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see - I was looking at the fishing article, not angling. I removed it because it was under References and I think it was keeping other refs from displaying properly. That =reference= {reflist} thingee list is generated by references embedded in the text. The book you put in should be in See Also or some catagory or subhead that can be added to like any other section or things get weird. I recall it took me a while to figure out what should be displaying under References and where other links had gone. The References were under Notes, so I just tried to get things organized the way they should be. I think your book should go under "See also" and everything now in See also should be in the EL template at the bottom of the page. Please add your book and deal with those other links if you're up to it. It looks like most of them are already linked in template. Bob98133 (talk) 20:59, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Fish processing vessel
I strongly suspect that most of your additions belong to the fishing vessel article. Please move the corresponding text there. `'Míkka>t 23:06, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Fishing vessel catches fish. Fish processing vessel is a fish factory in the sea (factory ship), which processes caught fish delivered by fishing vessels. Of course, the boundary is gray. You may mention that fishing vessels do fish processing to a various degree as well. `'Míkka>t 23:15, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Don't be so touchy. I am not giving you any orders. My only interest was to write a several stubs to cover totally missed wide topic. Since you say that both types of ships heavily overlap, another suggestion is to redirect Fish processing vessel to Fishing vessel (so I am redy to give up any and all rights to this page). `'Míkka>t 00:17, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Infobox Class - Infobox Ship Class
Hi - Infobox Class and Infobox Ship Class are deprecated and will soon be nominated for deletion. I notice that you are using these templates in your user space and wanted to inform you that they will no longer function once the templates are deleted. They have been replaced by using Infobox Ship Begin/doc. Thanks :) --Brad (talk) 07:26, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Welcome templates
Could you point an example of the mess up? I've checking now, but I don't see the sig removals. Thanks.  MBisanz  talk 05:18, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

McClane ref
Hi - wasn't me the last time. Sorry about reverting it before - I see there doesn't seem to be an ISBN but instead an ASIN number - maybe the Wiki instructions show how to link with that number. It's fine with me if you put it back up, either with the ABIN# or maybe a note [no ISBN], but also according to Wiki rules you're supposed to have actually reviewed the material before listing it as an EL, so maybe you want to wait until you see the book.Bob98133 (talk) 16:28, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Fishing
Oh right, sorry, I'm sure I looked at the page history and I created it and never populated it ages ago, but I must have confused it with another tab I had open. themcman1 talk 18:26, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, why did you revert my edits to Template:Fishing topics. It, in my opinion, looks more professional with capitalization. (Dunno if I spelt that right) themcman1  talk 18:37, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXVI (April 2008)
The April 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 00:53, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Re: Category: Fishing communities
I added the category to two articles (Portland, Maine and Peterhead). Which of those aren't fishing-centric? - Dudesleeper /  Talk 09:11, 7 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not particularly bothered, to be honest – I just wanted to state the rationale for my apparent spate of HotCat additions. - Dudesleeper /  Talk 09:30, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

WPFISHING
Hey, I noticed your edit at WPFISHING, are you trying to add the nesting function, or do something else? If you need any help with functionality of the template, let me know and I'll fix it up. Cheers! — Huntster (t • @ • c) 22:34, 7 May 2008 (UTC)


 * No problem, give me some time and I'll see what I can do. I may do some code overhaul too, but at the very least, I'll use my pre-existing WikiProject Tennessee and a template so everything will work fine off the bat. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 22:58, 7 May 2008 (UTC)


 * In all the pages I test-checked, it wasn't showing up. Are you seeing the problem on a certain article? — Huntster (t • @ • c) 01:20, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Heh, yes, that is actually from WikiProject Yorkshire, which I'm working on right now :) — Huntster (t • @ • c) 01:32, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Howard Marshall (broadcaster)
May I ask why you removed the category "fishers" from his article? Since, as stated in the article, he co-founded the magazines Angling Times and Trout and Salmon, and wrote a book called Reflections on a River, I would have thought that he qualified as someone with more than a casual interest in angling. Thanks. JH (talk page) 09:00, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for reinstating the category. The information about the angling magazines comes from page 46 of the Christopher Martin-Jenkins book which is one of the article's references, and it's possible that it isn't to be found anywhere online. His authorship of the "Reflections on a River" book I think comes from a search on Amazon. JH (talk page) 09:23, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Re: your help desk idea
I thought your script idea seemed like an interesting idea, so I threw together a little python script to do the dirty work... When I ran it on research vessel, I got this list. If you set up WP:EMAIL, I can send it to you — Ksero (talk | contribs) 14:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Removal of Angling Literature Contributions From Arnold Gingrich ?????
I am unsure why you removed the Angling Literature Contributions section header and Angling Writers category from Arnold Gingrich. They certainly apply and are well documented. What gives?--Mike Cline (talk) 22:32, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Fly fishing for sillaginids
Hi mate,

I removed the fly fishing box from the Sillaginidae article because they are NOT targets for fly fishing. They are often caught while targeting other marine estuarine fish, and definitely do not deserve placement in that box amongst trout, bass etc which are extremely commonly targeted by fly fishermen. If you were to put that box on that article, it would need to be put on nearly every marine fish article, which is overkill. IMO, keep it for the species such as trout, bass, salmon etc that are recognized freshwater targets. Also remember any marine fish taken on lures can be caught on fly given the right circumstances and gear.

Cheers, Kare Kare (talk) 12:46, 20 May 2008 (UTC)


 * No worries, i would think stay away from using entire families as 'fly fishing targets', use individual species. I'm not sure the template is going to be useful if you are going to add it to 1000 odd pages, i would go for a category, as opposed to cluttering up too many fish articles with the template. As for my username, it's also the first track off 'Together Alone' by a band Australia also seems to adopt as their own ;)

Kare Kare (talk) 13:20, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Template:Fishery science topics
I was just wondering how it was decided which scientist is linked from the "personalities" link in the template. Since there is no Personalities in Fisheries Science article maybe we should just link to the personalities template or back to the Fisheries Science Pages, which has such a list? Random 89  19:58, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the explanation, I'll put that on my to-do list, which means it should get done between now and the apocalypse. Random  89  18:55, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Fishing tackle
Hello, I've replied on my page. (How did you get your talk page to look so nice btw?)Setwisohi (talk) 16:37, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Angling
Please see your reply on my Talk page - Adrian Pingstone (talk) 09:47, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Support Needed to preserve Annotated Bibliography of Fly Fishing
Geronimo20: Please weighin on keeping the above article. This is a 2nd proposal to delete: Articles_for_deletion/Annotated_bibliography_of_fly_fishing

Thanks --Mike Cline (talk) 21:52, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXVII (May 2008)
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Template:Fishery sustainability topics
Why did you undo my edit of Template:Fishery sustainability topics? The reasons for my edit is as follows:
 * I removed the book since it does not belong in a template. Templates are for global use and so they should have links that are of a broad nature.
 * the capitalisation is not correct.
 * the links are using the pipe trick and therefore the reader does not get the correct impression of where the article lead to.
 * Marine pollution and marine debris are getting too far from the core focus of the template.
 * -- Alan Liefting ( talk ) - 05:04, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Fishing Template
I feel that the WikiProject Fishing template looks rather ugly when it is included with the small=yes parameter, as shown on our project page, but I am unsure is there is an easy way to remove the 'explain ratings' bit or if it means we would have to copy the whole template out in the functions. (Yes I know is Fishing and Fisheries or whatever, but it's easier to type fishing.) themcman1  talk 20:22, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah-ha. Slight brainwave, will try this. themcman1  talk 20:23, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Dories
Thanks for the comments about Swampscott dories. I think I was being a bit harsh but as you said the articles were quite scrappy. I think combining Dory articles would be a good idea. I will see if I can gather some good resources.

Bcooke99

Dory update
Thanks for the editing tips. I have a rough draft for a Dory article on my userpage if you care to comment on it. I am still working through the formatting functions. --Bcooke99 (talk) 11:44, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the good feedback. I will incorporate it into the text. I was wondering myself about including some of the types in the article but I thought that others seemed to think it important enough to mention it so I would too. That is most particular of the river dory which is a very different boat, built in a different era, for a different purpose, in a different part of the country. They are dories by definition and design but there isn't much of a historical link between them and the coastal working dories. Concerning the Cape Ann/Gloucester/Bank dory types, I have several non-web based sources that say they are the same thing and I can put that in. I may have a unique perspective in that I live in Essex county where all these dory building towns are located. It is easier to see which dory types are the same when you realize that Gloucester is the primary harbor on Cape Ann. Swampscott harbor can be seen from Gloucester harbor to the south, Salisbury and Newburyport are two towns on opposite sides of the river about five miles north of Cape Ann. That is why there are so many names but not so many true variations. The schooner born offshore Bank dory and the near shore beach launched Swampscott dory accounts for I would guess about 95% of all dories built. There were a few special ones like gunning dories I haven't mentioned yet and the racing/sailing pleasure dories that came about after the fishing industry stopped needing dories. Funny, if you want a dory around where I live you have to special order it now. Other than a museum or two nobody builds them anymore except hobbyists. Thanks again and I will keep working at it. Bcooke99 (talk) 00:47, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Gomtag
Hi, thanks for the info, all examples appreciated! Mhicaoidh (talk) 07:16, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

A gomtag is a circle of fabric that is worn around the body during meditation. The sole purpose of a gomtag is to support the lower back and knees by taking off the pressure while in the sitting (Indian style) or lotus position. With it on, it looks much like that of a large rubber band. Also called 'meditation belt'

Template:Angling personalities topics-reply
Hi Geronimo20.Thank you for your comments. I added John Wilson and Matt Hayes to the template because they are angling personalities. John Wilson, I know especially here in the UK. I use his written work as a reference to angling particulary the rivers and stillwaters of Norfolk and Suffolk. Please check him out. Sorry about the scrappy article- like some many. Northmetpit (talk) 13:30, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Cheers Northmetpit (talk) 13:39, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Fishing boat type : Nobby
Thanks for your offer of help. I was a bit miffed when the data was deleted from the Nobby (nickname) page which is why I posted an expanded version under fishing boats. I would appreciate your help in placing the data in a more appropriate location. I am not surprised that you found few Google hits as there is little published on these two boat types, Edgar March being the original published source for both of them. Boatbuff (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 09:59, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi I have done all of the research for the Lancashire Nobby, which will soon be published as a complete history of the type. I can also put together a brief history and description of the Manx nobby. Both types have web sites, as your google search will have found, that can supply photos of surviving types. Can you set up the two pages, I'll then be able to fill out the word picture in each entry page. Can you add the external link to http://www.white-heather-nobby.com/ on the Manx nobby entry, and http://www.nobbyownersassociation.co.uk/index.htm for the Lancashire nobby as they will be the only source of pictures in the public domain. Boatbuff (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 21:30, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

HI

Just searched for my original text to move it to the sand box that you provided to find that you have already done quite a good job of creating the nobby pages. I'll edit in some more detail to the new text where necessary.Boatbuff (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 14:30, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

New Dory Update
Thanks and by all means make the improvements. There is still a lot I need to learn about Wikipedia style and protocol. I will continue to research the topic and make edits as I find a need. --Bcooke99 (talk) 02:02, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Banks dory corrections
You caught me in mid-edit right after I hit the 'save' button instead of the preview button. Sorry to get you worried. I will try to just copy everything to my sandbox and play with it there in the future until I get better at the editing functions. The Winslow Homer painting is actually a decent portrayal of a banks dory but the fishing style portrayed is all wrong. 'Factually inaccurate' as the art scholars might say. That was my thought when I initially mentioned it. I put the link back. I also changed the picture of the 'mother ship' to one that is far more typical of the thousands that worked the Grand Banks.

The problem I have with citing internet sources is that 90% of what's on the internet is simply wrong and without any scholarly merit. That's why I only use written sources by real maritime scholars like Chapelle and Gardner in the dory articles. Most of what I find on the internet is simply heresay and rumors that keep getting bounced back and forth until they somehow become the common truth. The Wikipedia dory articles were/are great examples of that. A lot of the internet sources seem to be commercial sites that are simply trying to capitalize on the dory fame without being anywhere close to accurate in their statements. Marketing hype makes for bad encyclopedic referencing. Its tough because no real scholar thought to record any details about dories until after they had virtually disapeared. In a sense, the dory is a cheap and disposable boat that no one paid any attention to. Sort of like the aluminum outboard skiffs (do you call them 'tinny's'?) of today. Just like no one records the details of these aluminum skiffs, no one cared much about dories until they had been gone 50 years. Gardner was an exception and did a lot of work in the 1930's although he clearly states his research is limited because so much had already been lost by then. Most of what we have is hearsay and picking enough truth to make any factual statements is challenging. As I look for good references I find a lot of what I 'know' about dories is coming into question now that the sources of my facts are becoming better known. It is quite facinating but quite challenging too. Bcooke99 (talk) 12:33, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

You are right about the Gazela too. I re-inserted the link. Bcooke99 (talk) 12:58, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Tippy boats
Oh yeah, Dories are tippy. Just as everyone says though, put some weight in them and they settle down a bit. The 'tippiness' is what allows them to ride out the rough water. Not exactly an ideal characteristic in a pleasure boat. What they do, they do well. Their time is a bit past and I am amused when someone 'rediscovers' them and wonders why no one uses them today. The dory skiffs are much nicer if you don't need to be far out in the ocean.

I deleted a snippy comment about references on the dory talk page. Sorry if you caught that. It was a long day.--Bcooke99 (talk) 15:31, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

KRILL FISHERY
Hi, I cited that web (article) because I am the author of the article and others regarding fisheries, scientific observation, and krill, I have 1200 days at sea in fishing vessels as observer, and were the only observer that requested mandatory scientific observers within CCAMLR waters, now is real only in only one CCAMLR Area. I monitored the first trip of the FV Atlantic Navigator in the area 48.2 and 48.1 with continuous pumping system in 2004. Association for Professional Observers is the only organization in the world working to share and improve the methodologies in use in Fisheries Observation, fisheries observers are the mainly source of data in the managment of many fisheries as CCAMLR, ICCAT, etc. Sorry for mistakes in quotation. Regards --Ebolred (talk) 01:50, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi again, You can condensed your article, no problem, I like fisheries, I am master and since ten years I am working as Fisheries Observer, I will try to put editions depending of my knowledge of the matter. Congratulations for your articles regarding fisheries excellents. Best regards, --Ebolred (talk) 02:45, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Mammals and Birds Excluder Device (MBED)
Hi Geronimo, I posted an article on a new device to avoid the depredation mainly for Sperm whales in use in the fisherie for toothfish, may you develop it and improve it? --Ebolred (talk) 00:41, 4 July 2008 (UTC) Best regards
 * Hi Geronimo,
 * This device is not commercially distributed because is made manually on board of each vessel following the layouts of each master, this is one of the most important characteristics, being free any one can build it and use it, and the most important improve it, in the case of the TED the fishing vessel owner must be purchase one and in some cases the owner avoid to use TED for the cost, to compare commercial devices and manually made devices is like to compare Microsoft Encarta₢ with Wikipedia, the spirit of this device is to be widely distributed and that will be used by any one fisherman than want to get fish only fish: no seabirds, no Sperm whales.
 * In the Southern Oceans the issues of IUU fishing combined with bad practices on fishing are a big problem on conservation, the Patagonian toothfish fishery is one of the most profitable of the world, and vessels involved in IUU fishing in some cases are not using any one devices to avoid the catch of seabird and to reduce the interactions with Sperm whales and Killer whales, as example for vessels which have minimally (or absently) devices to avoid the incidental catch of seabirds, they can reach for the incidental capture between 66,000 to 107,000 birds (Kock, 2000), as example by catch rates in Tuna longline fishery in Southern African waters:0.360 birds/1000 hooks, 0.379 in Australasian waters (Ryan and Boix-Hinzen, 1998), Japanese Tuna longline have caught 0.150 around Australia (Gales, 1998), Bottom longlines in the Northeast Atlantic reach the 1.05 ( Tasker et al. 2000), however the longline fishery with this device is the only in the world that have a “0” in incidental catch of seabirds, the results of the tests were sent to the Working Group on Fish Stock Assessment of CCAMLR, and both were selected to publish on CCAMLR Science, one of the most reliable publication on Antarctic Biology (and peer review).
 * I appear in some publications because, I developed the sampling methodology, I carried out several tests, and I am working trying to help on issues of Toothed whales interactions and reduction of mortality of seabirds, using an excellent tool at sea: the fisheries observers.

As editor is your decision, delete or improve the post. Best regards,


 * --Ebolred (talk) 20:19, 4 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Bibliography:


 * Karl-Hermann Kock. 2000. Hacia una mejor comprensión del concepto de ordenación en la CCRVMA.


 * Tasker. M.L., C.J.K. Camphuysen, J. Cooper, S. Garthe, W.A. Montevecchi and S.J.M. Blaber.- 2000. The impacts of fishing on marine birds. ICES Journal Marine Science.,57: 531-547.


 * Gales, R, N. Brothers and T. Reid.- 1998. Seabird mortality in the Japanese tuna longline fishery around Australia, 1998-1995. Biol. Conserv., 86: 37-56.

Issues with TinucherianBot in Project Banner Tagging for WP:FOOD
Thank you for expressing your concerns on the recent issues with TinucherianBot in Project Banner Tagging for WP:FOOD. I have made some comments and explainations at Wikipedia_talk:Bots/Requests_for_approval and I am leaving this note just for your information --  TinuCherian  (Wanna Talk?) - 09:58, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXVIII (June 2008)
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Fisheries Science Personalities
After our previous conversation, I did as you suggested and expanded the "Notable contributors" section from a simple list to a little bit more, then changed the link in the "Fisheries science" template. Since I know little about most of these people, I got most of the info from cut-and-pasting from their individual articles. If you (or someone else knowledgeable) has a free minute or two, maybe you could check to make sure my editorial synthesis didn't miss or hide the key points? Thanks. Random 89  06:59, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't see how my edit prevents anything. Indeed, it directs the user to a page section which lists all the "templated" personalities, along with a brief explanation of what they did. I judged that information was too meager to split into its own article, and decided to let it do double-duty as part of the fisheries science article and as the list for the personalities link from the fisheries science template. Surely, that is better than linking to just one of the notable contributors, based solely on alphabetical order, and expecting the reader to use the personalities template to find whichever article they are searching for? Random  89  08:49, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I see what you mean, but until that time, would it not be better to have the link point to the section? Random  89  19:16, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I still don't see how anything is lost. I believe that these templates can be applied to more articles, which seems to make it even more useful to direct the personalities link to the section of Fisheries science. Random  89  07:09, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Find template
Hi Geronimo20, I created the find template a while ago, but it appears to be causing some confusion. According to item 9 of EL it shouldn't be used in articles. I've clarified the template documentation. PhilKnight (talk) 00:36, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Template:Fish market topics
Sigh. If you don't have it on there already, I'd suggest putting Template:Fish market topics on your watchlist. I relisted it. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 09:23, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * And no, there is no requirement that the creator be informed. It's considered a civil thing to do but it is not a requirement. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 09:25, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah ok. Yeah that makes sense. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 09:54, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Apologies if you considered it uncivil of me, but as noted above it is not required. I would ask you to bear in mind the reasons put forward for its deletion. Fishing industry already has this (and a wide range of other topics) already covered, so there is no need for further templates to do the exact same thing. PC78 (talk) 09:59, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I disagree. :) I consider it little trouble for the reader to look for those links in the main nav template. The sidebar is rather intrusive in articles such as Busan Cooperative Fish Market, which is what drew my attention to it in the first place. PC78 (talk) 10:14, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Salmon
Hello, were you addressing me in your recent post on the Talk:Salmon page or was it the other person who commented? I just want to know for clarity.

--Jeremy ( Blah blah... ) 06:31, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

fish
Firstly, please assume good faith. Secondly, anyone can edit anything anytime. What you were saying might be interpreted as owning the page (though not in this case, for I will WP:AGF;)) All I was doing was formatting, not content alteration. I agree that in the latter case, discussion is normally advised. Anyway, to address the actual issues: the separator '·' is the norm on templates. Each concept that is so separated is a new sentence, so requires a capital letter - this is also the norm on templates. ninety:one 13:38, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

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New template
But yet, it does not include a link to the article.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 08:15, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

IWC intro
hi mate,

first of all, sorry about the 'dog' comment -- it was a bit harsh, and impolite to boot.

Second, I was just about to message you, as I've just finished writing my piece on the talk page. I look forward to your response, and I accept a couple of your criticisms.

Finally, you're more than welcome to look through my flurry of recent edits. I accept myself that at least some of them may be questionable, although I do honestly try to keep things neutral (at least as I see it!) -- also I tried to honestly note in my edit summaries where I thought something could be seen as controversial.

Cheers Jonathanmills (talk) 00:00, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, and I should add that I'm currently living in the UK, so it is way past my bedtime over here and I won't get around to replying to anything you may have to say for another 10 hours at least. Cheers Jonathanmills (talk) 00:03, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Rinovia
Hi Geronimo20,

Sorry, I have no further information about Rinovia except what I can get from potential links. I used to live in Grimsby but have not done so now for 40 years; the company is defunct.

Younsmere —Preceding unsigned comment added by Younsmere (talk • contribs) 11:36, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I see you have left some comments for me. Sorry, as I have been otherwise occupied. I am not ignoring your questions and I will get back to you as soon as I can. Thanks.--Bcooke99 (talk) 00:26, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Sea shells
Hey, just thought I'd say - great idea with the navigation panel for the Sea shells! Good stuff. Best, Martin  (Smith609 – Talk)  09:42, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


 * There was an article on sea shells, but I merged it with "shell" and "exoskeleton" since there's nothing to be said about sea-shells that isn't repetition of content elsewhere. That's why I think the little box is such a great idea - it makes it obvious to people wanting information about sea shells where they can find it, without creating unnecessary and poorly maintained articles. I hope it sticks around! Martin  (Smith609 – Talk)  12:26, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: User Sfucss
Hi - the edits that I reverted were all links to ads for workshops or seminars, and since the website was so similar to the user's name, I didn't think much about removing them. Even without the editor conflict, the ELs aren't appropriate. There is a special warning box that you can post on this or his other talk page, but it looks like this is probably someone just link-farming and they probably won't be very persistant. Bob98133 (talk) 23:20, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, but
I hate those tags with a lot of passion. Hang it low, or not at all... which passes on the salient point that many articles really don't need such props. But thanks for the tiskings! // Fra nkB 23:06, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIX (July 2008)
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WikiProject Fishing...
I'm back after my long break from Wikipedia. Anything need doing behind the scenes on the project?

-- themcman1 talk 09:17, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I dunno what I mean as well. The only problem with the template is the images that go over the edge of the box. I don't know if it's just Firefox related, but if the images were just shrunk a bit. I can see what you mean by creative drive, say push x number of articles to GA or something like that. themcman1  talk 20:33, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Fishing Template
I was only joking about you being a slave, with all the work you've put into the project. Sorry for any offense, I'll remove it.

It could just be my user style sheet, but I'm using XP:FF3 and the images used to 'come out' the edge of the template. I'll put a screenie on later. themcman1 talk 19:11, 18 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Here's the link to my screenshot, with your old version. - sorry again.  themcman1  talk 19:22, 18 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I blanked my user style sheet and it still looks strange -
 * I'm thinking now that it could be a FF extension, becuase I have a fair few running at the moment - FDM, Google Gears, Live HTTP Header, Personas, PicLens, Prism and TinEye - I'll send you an invite for TinEye if you're interested. (Do you have OSX then or is it a friends - I want it, but the price for a Mac is way too high) themcman1  talk 19:39, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

FIS
I understand what you mean by this however, I don't work in or for the site. I am a user of the site and noticed that it did not have a wikipedia article. I am new to creating and editing wikipedia and just copied factual information from the site, If you wish to correct what I have written please look at the site and feel free to do so. thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spindoctor69 (talk • contribs) 23:53, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

RE: FIS
I do understand how this article does look like and advertisement. I did mostly take information from the site as well as use my own knowledge and understanding of the company. It does need editing to make it appear more neutral but I don't see how I can do this with the information available. I know that the statistics are reliable but what I believe you are refering to is the style in which it is written. If you want to re-arrange it, please do so as I think it would improve the crediblity of the article (and would remove the tag on the top of it). I am glad that you feel that it does warrant an article, since it is a very important tool for people in the seafood industry and we have been using it for many years now. You are correct in saying that intrafish also needs an article and I will try and write one in the next few days. Please get back to me if you make any changes or if you can suggest any changes to be made. thanks

(Spindoctor69 (talk) 01:19, 24 August 2008 (UTC))

I have seen the revised version of the article. I think it is a huge improvement on my original article and I must congratulate you on this improvement. I would like to add more information to the article and then re-add the picture of the homepage when more information is added. thanks again

(Spindoctor69 (talk) 02:27, 24 August 2008 (UTC))

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Re: Fishing Banks
Hi Geronimo 20, I'm not really an expert in that area, I just collected the information that I found at that time and tried to make sense of it. Looking at it again, there seem to be contradictory definitions of banks in circulation, and I don't know which is the right one. While the definition in the article refers to shallow areas of continental shelves, some banks in the list don't fit this definition, but are former atolls (Saya de Malha) or future atolls (Seychelles Bank) instead. I'm not sure whether the Grand Banks does fit the first definition or not. Fishing banks may well be a different kind of definition, taking an economic rather than geologic view.--Ratzer (talk) 12:12, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Commercial mollusks template
Oh, OK, thanks for the info, I did not realize this was an accepted format for Fisheries. I'm glad you like the new image. Invertzoo (talk) 13:31, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Me again, thanks again, I should perhaps explain that when I said that the "heading visually merges with the text" I meant that the heading "commercial mollusks" does not "read" well visually: the word "mollusks" does not stand out from the list of mollusks, but seems to be part of it. I took a look at the template for commercial finned fish, and I see that the list of names of fish is arranged flush left. Maybe that would help this list too? Invertzoo (talk) 14:53, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Hope you don't mind, I went ahead and changed the default align to left as it is in the other Fisheries navigational templates. Invertzoo (talk) 15:11, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Hi Geronimo, Thanks very much for your nice note; you are very kind and encouraging. I do think your templates are a good idea, at least for the time being. I reckon items that help cross-reference stuff and tie stuff together in Wikipedia are pretty much always helpful. As you can see from my used page, I am mostly a mollusks-from-the-scientific-perspective person, a naturalist basically, and also as it happens a vegetarian, but I found the fisheries links interesting and clearly the fisheries angle is an important one. I am glad you liked what I did to shellfish. I very much enjoy trying to fix up intros when I sort of understand the topic and it seems to me that the prose needs some work. Very nice to meet you. Please do feel free to call on me if ever you have a question about mollusks. best, Invertzoo (talk) 21:30, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Land-based game fishing
You have to be a member to get inside the site only few threads open to non members. I live about 1200 kms from Jervis Bay. Brisbane Qld, Look it up. The main reason these things happened is that I didn't realise how wikipedia worked and I assumed it was random people removing things. I do have some understanding now. However if you feel its not of value then remove it. I dont want to be wasting your or my time. There is only one site on the web dedicated to land based game fishing and that is the site I linked to. More than 95% of Marlin caught from land are caught on the east coast of Australia and most of them are from 1 spot "The Tubes" at Jervis Bay and it is world famous amongst hardcore anglers for this reason. . By the way that is the owner of the site not me. You can count the number of people who have managed to catch one of these things from the rocks on your 2 hands. In New Zealand they have hooked them but never landed them as they get 300kilo+ monsters there. It is a relatively new site and still trying to get all its resources in place. The links to sponsors are unpaid for, they are done as favours for people. I started the wiki page with the hope that some of the people who participate in the sport will get motivated to do a better job on the page than myself. Anyway remove what you think needs removing. As for land based shark fishing it is a subset of land based game fishing and is alot easier to achieve a shark catch than a marlin catch. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sportfishextreme (talk • contribs) 01:48, 15 September 2008 (UTC) OK I still dont have a full understanding of how wiki works and I dont know how to sign off but I am learning —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sportfishextreme (talk • contribs) 01:52, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

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Macrocystis pyrifera
Dear Geronimo20: Sorry if it's a copy-vio. Of course, it's not my intention to bring Wikipedia into disrepute. Actually, this article was created prior to the warnings issued, after which I've been more careful not to do any copy-vio, and some previous copy-vio might not have been deleted. As such, if you find any copy-vio that was previously and accidentally done, please delete it out-right, and be assured that I'd be more careful not to do any new copy-vio. Regards--Bugnot (talk) 13:10, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Fish Information and Services
Hello, If you havn't seen, I have added alexa to my referances along with another site which provides information. Obviously, the article needs work but I have recieved one request of deletion due to the "notability" of the article. I thought this was established with the information from alexa? I marked this as vandalism since I and the wikigroup in which the article is listed believe that the article is credible enough to keep. Wondering if you could help.

Spindoctor69 (talk) 22:23, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Third opinion re user Ctjf83 and WP BITE
As per Please do not bite the newcomers, the discussion on Ctjf83's talk page (version link) which Ctjf83 removed (diff), the discussion on this page (version link), and the actual pertinence of user Rhyme & Reason's posts, I commented out (diff) Ctjf83's highly inappropriate templated messages on Rhyme & Reason's talk page. — Athaenara ✉  01:27, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Coral reef image removal
Dear Geronimo, I did mean to remove those images, sorry that I didn't make that clear in my lack of edit summary. I figured that they were better suited to the fringing reef article. If you disagree, please feel free to put them back. Cheers, Malkinann (talk) 05:32, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. :) Photos are nice, but they just don't make up for a really good diagram, do they? ;)  -Malkinann (talk) 05:51, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Shells template
Hi Geronimo, me again, I just now made the default setting in the "shells" template flush left. But wanted to ask you, I don't really understand: is this "shells" template a fisheries template? Is it for amateur shell collectors, or what exactly? Are there others like it in the same series? Thanks, Invertzoo (talk) 18:31, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Hi again Geronimo, I should make it clear that it's not that I disagree with having the template, I just wasn't sure what it was supposed to be exactly. If I understand you correctly, it's for amateurs, so that they can find the other general introductory shell articles? But only sea shells, not freshwater shells or whatever? By the way, not only marine mollusks wash up as shells, it's quite common to call sea urchin tests and moulted crab shells "shells" or "seashells" as well... and also I think most people would call brachiopod shells just plain "shells" if they found them. Would you want to have those on the template too? What d'you think? Invertzoo (talk) 21:14, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Hi, me again, I just wrote to Martin Smith about the merger he did, to explain that mollusc shells and sea shells are not necessarily the same thing. I thought this might be helpful for you to read maybe, so here is what I said:
 * "Hi Martin Smith, Nice to meet you. I am a sort of mollusk expert, kind of anyway. I saw (via a mention by Geronimo) that you merged seashells with mollusc shell and exoskeleton. Might be not a bad idea, because there was a lot of what seemed like unnecessary duplication. The only thing is, that "sea shells" as the phrase is commonly used, as well as meaning the shells of marine mollusks, also includes a variety of other shells that can be found on beaches, including sea urchin tests and crab shells, as well as (not very commonly) brachiopod shells. And in contrast, the phrase "mollusk shell" means not only the shells of marine mollusks, but also the shells of land and freshwater mollusks. I am not sure what would be the best way to clarify this, but I thought it might be worth mentioning this to you. Best wishes, Invertzoo (talk) 21:34, 18 September 2008 (UTC)"  Just wanted to keep you in the loop about this. Best to you, Invertzoo (talk) 21:42, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Seashells
Hi Geronimo, Just wanted to add that when you said we could do a small lead article explaining what "shells" are in the context of your template, well it seems to me that is what we could have used the article "seashell" for, if it had not been merged. I am trying to decide if we need to reinstate Seashell or create a Shell article or what... Invertzoo (talk) 14:20, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

I got a admin to reinstate the article Seashell. I think you will see that it works OK. I also added your template to it in the appropriate section. Invertzoo (talk) 19:28, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Pseudofeces
Hi Geronimo. What you say in the article seems good to me, as far as I know. I did tweak it a little bit. And yes as far as I know, pseudofeces are found only in bivalves. I will look the subject up tomorrow and see if I came up with more info maybe. Invertzoo (talk) 23:43, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm working on it a bit. Invertzoo (talk) 18:05, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

OK, thanks for the heads up! Invertzoo (talk) 23:46, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Hi again, I am trying to work out whether we should use the word pseudofeces as if it were a singular noun or a plural noun... Any input? Even though feces is plural in Latin, I think it is usually treated as if it were singular in English. Invertzoo (talk) 00:32, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Ah yes, I see. Well I personally think you are right that the word can be used as a singular noun or a plural noun. By the way, congratulations on the fact that this did make the cut for a "Did you know" item, and thanks for including me in the process, I enjoyed it! Invertzoo (talk) 22:00, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Hi again, I looked to see how many people took a look at Pseudofeces since the DYK, and it went from like 2 or 3 a day to 6.4K! ha ha! Invertzoo (talk) 19:17, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, maybe the name "pseudofeces" only attracts intellectuals, ha ha. Although I guess potty humor has a truly universal appeal. Invertzoo (talk) 20:13, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Paul Gustafson
Hi, As you've recently offered your opinion as part of the RFC on the Paul Gustafson article, could you let me know your feedback on the work I've done to correct the tone and achieve some consensus? My work in progress is linked from the talk page and I would appreciate all comments. Thanks, OBM | blah blah blah 14:58, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Seashell template
Hi again Geronimo, I don't know much about templates. I think I may now have put too much content in, and maybe it is not clear how it is organized? Invertzoo (talk) 22:00, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I for one would like to see how you would organize it, as long as you don't mind the fact that you may work on it and yet it may still end up getting deleted. Yes I did read Catherine's objections on the talk page there, but I don't know what to say about her objections because I don't have a lot of familiarity with what is considered a good placement for a template and all that kind of related stuff. I do see what she means about the fact that a category called "Types of seashells" might maybe work just as well, take up less room, and not be as much "in your face". I guess it would not be quite as "handy" or as pretty... Invertzoo (talk) 20:51, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh I see, yes, that all makes sense. I certainly agree with you that many users won't know that there are categories on WP and how to use them. I think we should persevere with this seashell template, I think it has real potential. I do agree with you about the visibility and utility aspects, that's what I meant by "handy" and "pretty". Unfortunately I can't help you much with the process, as I don't know how to yet, but I will be happy to see what you can do, and you are welcome to pick my brains in any way that would be helpful. Best, Invertzoo (talk) 21:26, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Anytime you have the patience to help sort out the template, that would be great. Please don't hesitate to ask me anything. Invertzoo (talk) 21:35, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I am glad you liked the clean-up I did on Clam. And thanks so much Geronimo for your work on the template! It looks really good. I will explore it in depth after I have breakfast. As for the horseshoe crabs, we can simply call all of the crustacean shells "Arthropod shells" instead, and then horseshoe crab can go at the end of that list. The horseshoe crab may not be a crustacean, but it sure is an arthropod. Do you think you could tinker with the template so it is like that? Thanks again, Invertzoo (talk) 13:06, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually as you can see I did it myself. I think it came out OK. Invertzoo (talk) 22:01, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks Geronimo for explaining about the template and how it works. Actually I kind of like the way seashell currently stands, as far as the images go. I never much cared for that image of a bunch of expensive seashells. I hope maybe next year in the tropics to do my own photo of a group of real seashells (of various phyla) collected on one beach, out of the beachdrift, not these store-bought commercial ones. I don't think there is an image on the Commons like that right now, not as far as I know. Invertzoo (talk) 23:11, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Clam
Hi again Geromino, I did what I could to clean up the intro to Clam yesterday evening and this morning. Invertzoo (talk) 13:15, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

User talk:Mfishnitinp
Well, the article was deleted, which is why you can't see it. &mdash; Coren (talk) 00:59, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Fish information
No problem. Michellecrisp (talk) 01:54, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Charles Frederick Holder
Thanks for your help with the article, especially the refs. It should be able to pass the DYK. --Ctatkinson (talk) 11:47, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Love darts in land snails
Hi Geronimo, If you were interested in trying to put together another short article that might be good for DYK, the subject of love darts or darts in land snails and slugs is certainly a lively and interesting one. Just now I put the subject into the list on the disambiguation page for Dart. I could start the article or help you with it if you were interested. Or maybe we should wait until it's closer to Valentines Day! Invertzoo (talk) 00:37, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes: mollusks are an extremely large and diverse phylum that has (and in the fossil record has had) all kinds of amazing things going on! If I rack my brains a bit I can probably come up with several other wild topics. Your suggestion sounds fine. We could either do it all now, or we could prepare the article and then "release" it the week before Valentine's Day, that way perhaps more bloggers and journalists would pick up on it, generating more publicity for Wikipedia... but to be honest, either way is just fine with me. Invertzoo (talk) 12:58, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi Geronimo. Is there any chance we can get it together for the DYK thing even though it has been started today?? Invertzoo (talk) 22:08, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Well if you can chip in, please, I would encourage you to go right ahead. Snek provided the images and got it up off the ground. He cannot write in English very well however, so I was helping out with the prose. You are so excellent at the research angle and the citations. Does it have to be only 2 people working on it and submitting it? I really don't mind if you and Snek want to do it together or whatever... Can the process for DYK be salvaged now or not? Invertzoo (talk) 22:17, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

But can you come in on it too? I would really like that, and besides to be honest I think it would be quite necessary for the success of the article, because you have skills that neither I nor Snek have. I think the article would not succeed in making DYK without your contribution. Invertzoo (talk) 22:32, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Made the heading here into a link. Invertzoo (talk) 22:33, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, you would be amazed what mollusks do! Aren't they great? I had an edible snail escargot as a pet once, you could hear it eating from the next room. Look at the pictures of mating slugs at [. So, can it be three people for a DYK? Geronimo, can you come in with Snek and I on the Love Darts piece? Will you, or do I have to stick a harpoon in you first? Ha ha. [[User:Invertzoo|Invertzoo]] (talk) 23:10, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Great!!! Thanks!!! And let me say once again, if it turn out that only two people can claim joint credit, I am more than happy to cede that to you and Snek. Invertzoo (talk) 23:29, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Sure, go for it! Anything you can do to any aspect of it will be useful one way or the other I am sure, so don't be shy, just have at it! Invertzoo (talk) 00:00, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

ABOUT INITIALS: Well I had no idea! I guess I have been in this country far too long. Thanks for the info on that. I don't mind which way it is done now I know it's OK that way too. Invertzoo (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for all the links Geronimo. Anything you can do in terms of making actual citations would be great. As you can see, yesterday I concentrated on just making the prose hang together and general clean-up. I will write to Snek and explain about submitting this for DYK. I imagine you can think up a good tag line for it? "Did you know that....?" Also perhaps can you check to see if these images are or are not a copyvio? Anyway thanks for whatever you can do. Today I can do a fair bit of work, but unfortunately for a large part of tomorrow I will be away from my computer. Invertzoo (talk) 12:39, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh, when I went over to look at the article I was amazed how much work you had done, of every kind! So much more than what you had mentioned in your note to me. Thank you so much! I think it's great you found the little cupid by the way. Yesterday I put a lot of links to Love Dart from other articles, so it wouldn't be orphaned. Invertzoo (talk) 14:10, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi again, I wrote to Snek and he replied: "1) Geronimo (or you) will submit it for DYK when he will want to - under his name - that is the easiest way ;). I just prepared image. 2) Images are OK, they are from the free source http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2148/5/25 that I mentioned in description. I cropped and I will crop them from the source by myself. --Snek01 (talk) 14:40, 4 October 2008 (UTC)"

Hi Geronimo, It is early evening in NYC. I will be around tomorrow morning, but then I will be gone until late in the evening New York time. If tomorrow needs to be the submission day for DYK, please just go ahead with that, assuming you think the article can stand on its own two feet as it is. I still do not know how to do citations (shame on me) so I have a couple of regular links in there instead, that will need turning into proper citations. I can work on the article on Monday, Tuesday etc as needed. Best to you, Invertzoo (talk) 22:47, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks so much for submitting it to DYK Geronimo. It really is expanding fast and looking great! BorgQueen seems to like it... Thanks for all your great work on it while I slept. I will attack it again with gusto on Monday morning NY time. I will check in this evening too, at least for a short time. Yes I agree: I think it probably can be raised to FA status if we are prepared to put all the additional work in. It has a great foundation already. Invertzoo (talk) 15:46, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi Geronimo. I was trying to find the correct reference for "Then, when the body of one snail touches the other snail's genital pore, it triggers the firing of the dart" I wrote in (Chase & Varga, 2005), but I don't know if that is really correct. Invertzoo (talk) 17:15, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh I am glad you found it. Yes, I agree that we can relax for a while on this, and then yes we can try to get it up GA status. As you say, there is a lot that can be written about it. Invertzoo (talk) 20:26, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Re: Reverts
Re your message: Usually, I skip warnings when somebody else has already warned the person (probably due to revert conflict) or if they had just received a warning an instant before they repeated the edit (to give them a chance to read the warning). Occasionally I will skip the warnings for simple stuff like adding "HELLO!" or something like that. Was there some revert in particular that caught your attention? -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 22:24, 3 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Re your message: In that particular case, I felt that the time between the initial vandalism and my revert was too great, so I didn't leave a warning for the IP. The IP hasn't had any further edits, so my guess is that they wouldn't receive the warning.  The initial vandalism was here and I reverted more than 3 hours after it occurred.  Between then, two other IPs vandalized   and was reverted   while a new editor tried to do a cleanup.


 * I see that you warned the new editor. She was actually trying to clean up the mess, so you might want to retract your warning and leave her a welcome message instead. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 22:36, 3 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Uh oh... you're right, my error. Sorry about that. I've changed it to a welcome. --Geronimo20 (talk) 22:48, 3 October 2008 (UTC)


 * No worries. =) The edit summary was unusual, which is what drew my attention to the article in the first place.  I looked at the history to figure out where it all went wrong. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 22:54, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Reply
Yes, the rule used to be that we do not link to images on external sites, partly due to copyright concerns. But obviously the rule must have changed since. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:14, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXI (September 2008)
The September 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 22:37, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

AGF on Paul Gustafson
Believe me, it's been running low for a while on that one. Thanks for your help and sanity, though. OBM | blah blah blah 10:03, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

More good news on Love dart
Today I mentioned the article to JoJan, the admin who started WikiProject Gastropod years ago, and here is what he said:

":Well-written. I've promoted this article to a B-assessment and I think you should push through to the GA-level. I had noticed this article already and I've started to use links to it in the description of the specific characteristics of the families in the Helicoidea (e.g. see: Humboldtianidae). JoJan (talk) 14:42, 9 October 2008 (UTC)"

So it's nice to know it's going over so well. Invertzoo (talk) 21:18, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Red links in Love dart
Hi Geronimo, I wanted to let you know that I am gradually making my way through all of the species, genera, families and superfamilies mentioned in Love dart, making new articles wherever necessary, in order to get rid of all of the red links. Of course the new articles are only stubs, but they are better than nothing, and they are a helpful addition to WikiProject Gastropods. Very best wishes to you, Invertzoo (talk) 23:16, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

P.S.
I think you were not sent this, so here it is below this: Invertzoo (talk) 23:18, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Congrats
According to this statistics, Love dart got 31,000 hits on the day it was featured, which is the second-highest DYK record of all time. Congrats! --BorgQueen (talk) 07:03, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Trophic dynamics
Omg, no sorry. I really do not remember where I got these values :-( Yes, I see how precious it would be (now) to have a source for those :-( sorry. Anthere (talk) 10:19, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Fisheries Template Removal - Catskill Fly Fishing Center and Museum
Geronimo - User:Americasroof removed the fisheries template from the museum article without much explanation. Since you are really the keeper of the templates I thought you might want to engage and find out why. Doesn't seem logical to me. By the way - have settled in nicely in Bozeman, MT and am getting a fair amount of trouting done before the Winter sets in next month.--Mike Cline (talk) 12:36, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

History of fishing
Thanks for your thoughts on this article. I have added some time benchmarks and a source. Basically the Native American fishing technology is thought to have developed independently in parallel to stone age cultures elsewhere in the world. however since i don't have a source for such a cosmic summary of present North American archaeological thinking, i cant add this notion to the article, per your guideline. :) Plumpurple (talk) 20:49, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Link spam?
Hey, Geronimo - it looks like that link that you are posting on various fishing related pages is linkspam. It's a personal web page - it says that at the top, so it looks like WP:SPS. I took one down, but I see you've posted a lot of them, so maybe you want to take them down, or let me know (or add to talk pages of articles) why they should stay. Thanks Bob98133 (talk) 23:07, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * You're right that the web site looks good. Let's see what you do with the links. Thanks Bob98133 (talk) 12:59, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Gillia altilis
Hello, do you know how to make a DYK sentence for Gillia altilis? I made few DYKs last days, but I am helpless with Gillia altilis. Thank you. --Snek01 (talk) 21:17, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Tidal flow
Thanks for your suggestion, I created a new page tidal flow and changed in the links in the most relevant articles so that they direct there. Would you be able to fix the tidal flow article to redirect to a disambigulation page given that since I think someone talking about traffic management may well make another 'blind' link to tidal flow leading to confused readers in the future.

I first got to the tidal flow article myself when I was reading the central reservation (i.e. median strip) article and clicked on one of the links.

Thanks again. --I (talk) 14:22, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Fisheries Management
Dear Geronimo20 - thanks for the invitation to be a bit more active on fisheries management articles, and sorry for taking so long to reply to your message of nearly a month ago, but I haven't logged in to Wikipedia for a while. I've just moved from New Caledonia to Nauru and its taken me a while to get a reliable internet connection. I still can't see images on Wikipedia though: they're blocked on my connection, presumably to save bandwidth. For that reason I won't make any promises that I can't keep.

I guess you're aware that I tried to start up a Wikia (formerly Wikicities) project called "fisherymanagement" a few years ago, but it never took off and I got bored with being the only major content-contributor. I had gone with Wikia because I was finding Wikipedia conventions a bit restrictive - I was looking for something a bit more immediate, sharing ideas gained from recent conferences; trivia that probably wouldn't have been welcomed on Wikipedia etc. And most importantly, a place to share individual items of knowledge that hadn't necessarily already been written down anywhere else - something that Wikipedia nowadays seems to abhor.

I'll see what I can do here though. Timonroad (talk) 04:35, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

DYK question for Kaipara Harbour
Hello! I have reviewed your submission at the Did You Know nominations page. I noticed some issues that need to be clarified, and have left comments for you underneath. Please respond there as soon as possible. The hook and article are both very interesting, so I hope we can get this issue cleared up quickly, because I would really like to see this on the main page. Thanks! &mdash;Politizer talk / contribs 16:13, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Question about framing a map and caption
Hi Geronimo, I wondered perhaps if you could help me: do you know how to put a box around a map and caption? Neither Snek nor I seem to be able to work out what is the code for this. The map is in the article: Flat-spired three-toothed snail. Thanks for any light you can shed on this. Invertzoo (talk) 20:18, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi Geronimo, Thanks! Yes I reckon that will do nicely! Many thanks. Invertzoo (talk) 22:25, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXII (October 2008)
The October 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 23:57, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Naval Trawler
Heya, somali pirates uses modified trawlers in their attacks on merchant shipping. You can look at the pictures on the Piracy in Somalia page for visual comformation if you like. The puntland government also uses trawlers as patrol craft as do several other poor african countries.XavierGreen (talk) 03:17, 15 November 2008 (UTC) Here ya go, recent source stating somalis are using trawlers as base ships to launch attacks off of. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/14/AR2008111402437.html XavierGreen (talk) 03:17, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

DYK hook needed
Hello. I would like to hear from you DYK proposals. Please, see at User talk:Invertzoo and discuss directly there. Thank you. --Snek01 (talk) 21:00, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Howdy to you too Geronimo! That's very nice of you to offer to help try for DYK, I will take you up on your kind offer. Please come on in on this one! However although I only had a quick look so far, it does not seem to be very easy to find suitable online references for this article. However I will give it more of a try, with your help. Also, if you find anything good in the way of new info, feel free to throw it in. Best to you as always, Invertzoo (talk) 23:50, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for all your help with Siphon (mollusc)! It is very much appreciated. And thanks for submitting the DYK. Do you know the code to make a "clear" break between the section on gastropods and that on bivalves? I think that would look better if we could do that. Update note: I just now fixed that by writing more and moving images, but I would be grateful if you could tell me the code anyway, for next time... Thanks Invertzoo (talk) 16:01, 18 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh I just worked out that the first ref you found and used (the ZipcodeZoo information) is actually originally copied from Wikipedia, so I guess we can't use that one. Invertzoo (talk) 15:42, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Siphon (mollusc)
Thanks for all very useful info about the templates for clearing, I really appreciate it. One more thing: do you know why two of the images on the Siphon article are not appearing right now? Is it because the server is a bit overloaded at this time of day and things are running slow? And maybe those images are very big files? Does that matter do you think or not? Invertzoo (talk) 21:43, 18 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi, me again. I got this message today on my talk page:


 * "I have verified your article for DYK, but I also left the following message:  "currently the only inline citations in the article are all for the three hook facts.  So while this article is waiting to be put in the queue, please work on adding more inline citations wherever you can." &mdash;Politizer talk / contribs 05:06, 20 November 2008 (UTC)"


 * I have asked Snek if he can help with finding any more on-line citations for this, as he may be better at scaring up refs than I am, but if anything also occurs to you I would be grateful. For example, the "external links" I put in might possibly be good for one or two citations maybe... Invertzoo (talk) 20:39, 20 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I found a number of OK refs but put them in as links in the text, not proper inline citations. Invertzoo (talk) 23:58, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Pallium (anatomy)
Today I discovered this weird little article. Should it really be a disambiguation page? Or perhaps should it be divided into 1. a disambiguation page, and then 2. a separate neuroanatomy article? (I also asked Snek what he thought about this also.) best to you, Invertzoo (talk) 22:46, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Siphon
Hey no problem Geronimo, you certainly did do some work on it, and I really never mind sharing credit, but thanks anyway for correcting that. Invertzoo (talk) 23:24, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Algae
Sorry for the delay in responding. I'm guessing the above article was tagged on the basis of being included in the Wikiproject Rational Skepticism/List of articles related to quackery. Why it was included in that list, I don't know. It might be better to contact the project directly regarding the banner, as there might be some members there who know why the article was included in that list. John Carter (talk) 22:42, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

If I can butt in here, I expect the skeptics were thinking of the "superfoods" angle on Spirulina and some of the blue-green algae preparations that are sold in health food stores with all kinds of extravagant claims. Best wishes, Invertzoo (talk) 14:53, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Geoduck
Hi Geronimo. I put the commercial mollusk template onto the geoduck article. I wondered, do you want to add "Geoduck" to the template list? Invertzoo (talk) 22:18, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Land snails as commercial mollusks? or not?
Hi again, One more thing about commercial mollusks. Is it supposed to be only about marine mollusks? And if so then should it say so? If not then it maybe needs a link to Escargot or to one of the main edible landsnail articles. I mean Helix pomatia the main escargot, is raised commercially... Just wanted to get your take on this. Invertzoo (talk) 00:15, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Hello Geronimo, I have read the related discussions and I think that the template Commercial mollusc topics should look like Fisheries and fishing. I hope you consider to change its format, because commercial mollusc topics template does not serve as a navigation template but as a usual topic template and its placing at the bottom of articles can improve organizing content inside the article. --Snek01 (talk) 01:13, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Geronimo, In light of what Snek said, I had a go at putting together a draft of a template for commercial mollusks that is structured along the lines of your Fisheries and Fishing template. You can see the draft on a subpage of my user page: I realize that something like this probably won't be able to fit properly into your hierarchy of fisheries templates... I wonder if that means that in order to use it we should  develop a template project of our own with our own color and so on... I don't know. Any ideas? Thanks, Invertzoo (talk) 01:29, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Forage fish
I see (on cursory examination) that you did make some improvements to this article, but I still see a lot of nonneutral POV in that article. Think twice before you say things like "not enough is known" or suggest that an objective scientific study found that "forage fish are a precious food resource for humans which is being squandered." In general, the discussion of the use of forage fish uses the language of NGOs that fight this activity, rather than the more dispassionate language of scientists and fisheries managers. --Orlady (talk) 13:53, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * My concern about the Environment section of the Forage fish article was not related to its length nor to the substantive aspects of its content. I believe that the problems described are very real (and I was aware of the growing problem of depletion of the lower levels of the marine food chain years before I saw this Wikipedia article -- I looked at the article because I am interested in the topic; I had no desire to "censor" it as you have charged on my talk page). My concern was that the information was not presented on an objective factual basis, but was largely statements of opinion, including some opinions whose authors were not identified. Saying, for example, "not enough is known" without providing context is POV. It would not be POV to say that "the critical threshold populations for various forage fishes are not known sufficiently to determine how much fishing they can sustain," as it indicates the context for the determination of "not enough." (I wrote that last sentence as an example; I have not checked it out against sources.) In any case, of course, statements need to be attributed to reliable sources.


 * The current version, which is mostly one long quotation, seems like a cop-out, but at least it avoids the plagiarism and POV concerns that I had with previous versions. --Orlady (talk) 16:40, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Hi Geronimo, I took a look at Forage fish and enjoyed it. I really am more of an invertebrates person, specifically Mollusca, and fish being vertebrates means that I know very little about them, except in the most superficial way. I really know nothing at all from the fisheries perspective. Sorry I can't be of more help. I did think the article was very good from my position of ignorance though! Best to you, Invertzoo (talk) 13:24, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Barnstar
Incidentally, you might watchlist WikiProject Environment. It can be a nice place to ask for help, although it doesn't seem to get a ton of traffic. Also, I noticed your exchange with Orlady, where you mentioned a publication cost $20. Check out WP:LIBRARY and ask for it next time. Often you can get these things from people who have access. At the least someone can probably get an interlibrary loan. II | (t - c) 22:47, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXIII (November 2008)
The November 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 16:28, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Commercial mollusks
Because I thought you might (maybe) have missed this post of mine, I am posting it here: in light of what Snek said, I had a go at putting together a draft of a template for commercial mollusks that is structured along the lines of your "Fisheries and Fishing" template. You can see the draft on a subpage of my user page: I realize that something like this probably won't be able to fit properly into your hierarchy of fisheries templates... I wonder if that means that in order to use it we should  develop a template project of our own with our own color and so on... I don't know. Any ideas on this whole question? Many thanks and all good wishes to you, Invertzoo (talk) 01:51, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

...and the barnstar
Hi Geronimo! Thanks so much for checking (and adding to) my draft of the new "commercial mollusks" template. I am glad you think it is OK. I guess I will start adding the template to articles if you feel it is in fact ready to go as it currently stands. I also want to thank you profusely for the barnstar (!) and especially for the very kind words that went along with it. It is always nice when someone "gets" what you are doing. Reaching and communicated with the widest possible audience is essential to Wikipedia, but a lot of scientists end up completely losing the ability to communicate well with non-scientists about their topics. Not so a few exceptional people including E. O. Wilson who I consider to be a friend of mine from my days working at the MCZ. All the very best to you, Invertzoo (talk) 18:41, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, E.O. Wilson is a jewel of a person. I bet PInker is really interesting too although not many are as sweet as Wilson. My other big-time favorite supernice person who is a first-rate academic is Bob Edwards, the test tube baby guy. I worked in the Physiology Lab of Cambridge University in England, when he was there. You see I am British, was born and grew up in England, and spent the first almost 30 years of my life there, but for the last more than 30 years I have lived in the USA. As a child I learned the British marine fairly well and then in the late 60s and 70s I did a lot of mapping work of the British non-marine for the 2 Michael Kerney books, "Atlas of the..." on the British non-marine mollusca. In the USA I was not really active in malacology until about 10 years ago, when I got back into it again in a major way, mostly on the Caribbean marine. Oh, and back in 1970 I lived in California and got to know the local marine mollusk fauna there very well. And you? How do you know so much about fisheries? And are you a kiwi born and bred?Invertzoo (talk) 14:24, 8 December 2008 (UTC) and Invertzoo (talk) 16:02, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

About Dredging, Scallop dredge etc
I really know almost nothing at all about fisheries, unfortunately, but I hear that dredging is still used in the USA as a technique to collect some edible commercially important species of clams such as Arctica islandica and Spisula solidissima. Should this dredging of clams be included in the scallop dredging article? Or perhaps this is not quite the same thing in terms of the ship or the equipment that is used? I did put a mention of dredging clams in the Dredging article, but perhaps that was not correct to put it there. I guess there should be a mention of the article scallop dredge in the dredging article at some point just to enable people to go from one to the other? As you can see I am floundering (excuse the pun), and I need your help with this. Thanks! Invertzoo (talk) 19:02, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Templates
Okay, give me a reason why templates should not be capitalized; and why Cullercoats is on the fishing template. 68.49.205.168 (talk) 03:44, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Images
Please respect the following Wikipedia guidelines regarding images use : "Start an article with a right-aligned lead image or InfoBox.", and "Images should be inside the section they belong to", see Images section for reference. Thank you - Wikigi | talk to me | 11:08, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Can you point to one single occurrence of me reverting a "fix" made by you using a tag, as you pretended here? If not, I would appreciate your correcting this false allegation. Thank you - Wikigi | talk to me | 22:04, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * You are right, you only reverted one, and just ignored the other. I have corrected the comment accordingly. --Geronimo20 (talk) 22:17, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * And could you point to that One? Can't find it - Wikigi | talk to me | 22:27, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * This is a tedious and trivial waste of time. clearleft was used in recreational fishing and clear was used in artisan fishing and, yes, you didn't revert, you just ignore them so can pretend there is a problem. Either way, the issue is that there are not the problems you pretend there are, even though I explicitly drew your attention to the fix for artisan fishing. --Geronimo20 (talk) 22:50, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * So you admit your mistake... Checking history I noticed that you have been consistently deleting all adverse opinion from your talk page and from other discussion pages. After you blasted me with Vandalism templates because I was in disagreement with you, I find your methods to be objectionable and at odds with Wikipedia principles. - Wikigi | talk to me | 23:07, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, of course I delete non-constructive comments from the occasional user, or the occasional abuser or troll, usually beginners, who have never contributed any content or done any useful work on fishing articles, including those who want to impose in a totalitarian way some personal preference across the templates or the way they are displayed. Those discussion belong on the template talk pages. You keep going on about me removing a discussion I was having with you on your talk page. I never removed the discussion, I removed the unnecessary mirror of it that you kept pasting onto my talk page. And what else could I do but "blast you with vandalism" after you started, without agreement, removing the lead photos from the lead fishing articles. What is that if not vandalism? --Geronimo20 (talk) 23:38, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * "Yes, of course I delete non-constructive comments from the occasional user"

And debate from good-faith regular editors such as this one where the very same issue was already raised (deleted on September 21). You stated on Ghirlandajo talk page a few months ago that "no-one has ever complained before", well that's 3 contributors there including me. Since you keep deleting entire topics from discussion pages it is hard to know if more editors came up with concerns and disagreed with you. To summarize, I raised two issues with images, the first was the repetition of the same image twice, the second was the use of a picture before the introduction of an article, at the upper left corner of the page (see my talk page). I am asking you not to delete this topic so future inquiries on the subject will be able to refer to it - Wikigi | talk to me | 08:54, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

New commercial mollusks template
I saved it to Template:Commercial molluscs to differentiate if from the old one Template:Commercial mollusc topics. Invertzoo (talk) 16:00, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

What I said about that boat is true
Stop accusing me of vandalism for adding facts to an article.

Who do you think you are?

Wikipedia is meant to allow all users to contribute facts. You don't own that boat article. Why do you keep removing my facts? I have not edited in any false statements, so what is your deal exactly???

PLEASE STOP IT. JUST STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.7.161.111 (talk) 05:25, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Angling Personality Infobox Request
Geronimo - I hope the fishing project template wars have subsided. Have you though about creating an Angling Personality infobox template simlar to the one used on books or other personalities. We are getting more individual articles added all the time (I have several in the works) and I think an infobox that highlights their contributions, literature, specialties, regions etc. would be a great addition to the articles. If nothing else, it would give the template police something to chew on.--Mike Cline (talk) 01:47, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Geronimo - Thanks for the thoughts. Let me do a bit more exploring to see if an Angling Personality infobox is desirable.  Keep up the good work and avoid the potholes--Hey its summer down your way so spend more time fishing - We had 13 below F last Saturday so unless I want to start Ice fishing, things are locked up for a while.--Mike Cline (talk) 11:38, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Common Fisheries Policy
Unless you have good reason, please leave my criticisms there. I think it's extremely important, and it ought to be self-evident why. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brooksie77 (talk • contribs) 15:19, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Happy happy joy joy for Geronimo


Invertzoo (talk) is wishing you Seasons Greetings! Whether you celebrate the Winter Solstice or Xmas, Eid, Diwali, Hogmanay, Hannukah or even the Saturnalia, this is a special time of year for almost everyone!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding to your friends' talk pages.

Template:Fishery science topics
Yep, I'm afraid so. I've even met some of these primitive (dialup) people and they appear to be otherwise normal. —Pengo 01:46, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Fishing industry in China
See Template:Did you know/Queue/2. Cirt (talk) 06:50, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Nicely done mate! Perhaps you would be interested in starting Agriculture in Burma sometime. The Bald One      White cat 21:38, 29 December 2008 (UTC)