User talk:Kafka Liz/Archive 5

Hey there
Good to see you around, even if only briefly. Hope all's well! Heimstern Läufer (talk) 10:00, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Medieval art
Ah thanks! Johnbod (talk) 18:14, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Glad to be able to help. There may well be a better reference out there, but this one spells it our pretty clearly. Kafka Liz (talk) 18:28, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Nice to see ya...Modernist (talk) 18:15, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks :) It's nice to be back. Things are finally starting to look up again. Kafka Liz (talk) 18:28, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

80s hardcore
I'll take your Dropkick Murphys and sincerity and raise you 7 fold. Ceoil 18:10, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Shit, dawg, I dunno if I can top that. Music and sincerity. Sheesh.Kafka Liz (talk) 00:28, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Nobody says dawg anymore. Sheesh. Or, at least not in Cork, and we're fairly on top of things. I like Fugazi a lot, if they didn't wear their heart on their sleves so much. But thats the unironic 80s for you (when I was 15 or 16). Ceoil 00:52, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I might have been the same age back then, if I were to talk about such things. Mama tells me nice girls don't. Nah, I like Fugazi too, Daddy-o. Too groovy. Kafka Liz (talk) 01:12, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * On a relatively serious note, though... The musicians/bands I love? I try to avoid their personal statements and pronouncements, generally. It has a way of spoiling things for me. Kafka Liz (talk) 01:17, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I've adopted the same strategy, wise given how much Astral Weeks means and what a boorish, and fat, idiot Van Morrission is. Incidently, Billy Corgan is not all that either.. Surprise. Ceoil 01:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Ought I be embarrassed that I vaguely remember this? (Was always with Pavement, fwiw.) Kafka Liz (talk) 01:38, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Me too, only mentioned Corgan cause I read the article during the week, and its funny. Never was a fan of bombast or hysterical twitter melt downs and firing your entire band because you so super (unless your mark e smith). It takes all sorts in this crazy world, but then again who cares, really. Ceoil 01:56, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreed and agreed and agreed... and Mark is Mark and has a pass. Kafka Liz (talk) 02:01, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks Liz for things. You know I'm actually a very nice person IRL! But lord god almighty (he said reaching for his 1980-86 Fall albums in dispare. Ceoil 22:34, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Couldn't hear ya more clearly. Though I prefer to think of you IRL as a vodka-swilling Svengali whose nefarious plans beggar belief. ;) Kafka Liz (talk) 22:39, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed. This is just a small, but key, part of actions I set in motion a few years ago. A lot of my plans are crystallising tonight. Back on planet earth, how are you? Its been a while! Ceoil 22:44, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, thereby hangs a tale. I'm pretty good, in all but material ways. To clarify, still not tied down by a career. Footloose and fancy-free, as it were. And yourself? Kafka Liz (talk) 22:49, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Fine, but dragged down by economic woe. Working but morgaged to the gills, and taxed like a motherfucker. And I had hope I'd have given this place up at this stage of my life. I often think - this is retarded, what are you doing!, esp. on nights like tonight. Ceoil 22:53, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, I hear ya. I'd have lost my place... but that's a longer story than I can get into here. I'm starting to consider joining the military. I'll leave you to imagine the straights that have driven me there. That said, I've been feeling ridiculously and uncharacteristically upbeat of late, so. Kafka Liz (talk) 22:58, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Morgan
Hi Liz I thought you would find this interesting ...Modernist (talk) 10:56, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey Modernist, thanks for the link! I am definitely interested: I will have to try to make it down there before it closes. Shouldn't be too hard... I still have time on my hands. Kafka Liz (talk) 22:04, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Let me know if you are coming, if you have time...Modernist (talk) 22:52, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Vincent
Did you mean about going for the van Gogh page. I hope so, and it would b great to work together again. I am building a team; here I am doing just that, cap in hand. Only reward will be you win the internet and this lovely punk song. Ceoil 22:44, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You might also note this tune, which is a very good tune. Ceoil 22:47, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 * • Mmmmm, excellent. Very much appreciated :) Kafka Liz (talk) 22:56, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Definitely. Especially if it includes tunes and a chance to win teh internet. Kafka Liz (talk) 22:52, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Congrats you have won teh internet. They will love you on /b. By the way, lady, you owe me two tunes. And please, no rubbish. Tap tap tap. Ceoil 23:17, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 * There's only one way for a gal to win the love of /b/, and it's not a step I'm willing to take. No rubbish? You temp me to extremes. Kafka Liz (talk) 02:18, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * ...and some better ones, because you didn't really deserve that. ;) Kafka Liz (talk) 02:38, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Last thing I need is the Party Van folk taking that seriously. Anyway, back to my quiet evening researching torture and contemplating sex offense. Kafka Liz (talk) 22:06, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Elizabeth, dear, I'm going to let the Jedward thing slide, but only this once. Think, though they're from Dublin, but esp . 22:21, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Can't believe you sent that. I was looking for a vid of A Natural, which I thought was just the awesomest, back in the day. you'll have to skip forward 5 or six minutes. Kafka Liz (talk) 22:29, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Jesus, I'm impressed, esp that you skipped his west brit accent for the first 5.5 minutes, and onto the juice. . Ceoil 22:58, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Nah, I loved those guys, especially that song (the later bit, not the stuff that precedes it) - though I can see now how it's a bit melodramatic... Still love it, though. Do you remember these guys at all? I was looking for "Revelations of a Domestic".... Kafka Liz (talk) 23:18, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You mean the guys that did CABLE The (we did the music for the sprite ad) blues lads? That band? No? Well then no, neaver heard of em. But I know where your getting at with lost classics  that never were. So broody, so sexy. So Danish. Ceoil  23:29, 16 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Just so you know... I have it from a handful of Cape Cod youth that Jedward was robbed at Eurovision... Feelings were strong. Kafka Liz (talk) 23:48, 16 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Like we celts have a culture going back thousands of years, with stones and decorated words (as you well know), and still I'm hit with Jedward? Tut tut tut. Ceoil 01:03, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I cannot be held responsible for the predilections of a gaggle of sand-bound teens. In any case... I was lucky enough to view the graves of both Mr Yeats and Mr Pound within the space of two months, so I deserve a shade of credit there, Mister. Kafka Liz (talk) 01:15, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Denied, American Liz. If you saw statues of holy mary moving or bleeding in knock, now that might impress me. As it stands; yawn. Ceoil 16:08, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Does Virgin Mary toast count? This I can provide, o Eurosnob. Kafka Liz (talk) 22:19, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Villa of the Mysteries
The anon editor is entirely right - since it is in Europe, it should be "metres", not "meters". So Stephen G. Brown was wrong in calling it "vandalism". It was another anon editor who was adding the false info. BTW, I replied to your email. Meow. 93.97.143.19 (talk) 01:40, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Meow back. Got your mail, though a thoughtful reply will probably have to wait until tomorrow. I'm fine with the metre vs meter thing in principle (Was that you? I didn't realise); I'd like the article as a whole to conform to either one or the other (Am. or Eng.), so I'll check it over so it's consistent. My primary problem was the Finlay thing. Didn't mean to throw out the baby along with the bathwater, certainly. But the predominance of UK-based IPs made it seem that it was all the same person. Anyway... good to hear from you again :) Kafka Liz (talk) 02:15, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * No, wasn't me. I was just looking at what you had been editing, to see if you had been hanging around here! Isn't the usual thing on Wikipedia to go for US-English usage if the subject of the article is American or in America, and UK-English usage if it is European or in Europe? 93.97.143.19 (talk) 19:00, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, it's my understanding that if there is a strong reason for one over the other - i.e., an American, British, Irish or Commonwealth subject - then it is pretty clear cut. Apart from that, we apply whatever style has been predominantly used since the article's inception, in lieu of a talkpage consensus to change. As I said... I'm not married to any one style of spelling on this one, as long as it's consistent. I'm fine with European spellings on this one; I'll just check on the talkpage and see if anyone objects. And ping. Kafka Liz (talk) 22:51, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * If you've sent me mail, might be a while before I can reply. I'm travelling in Turkey for a month and for some reason I'm having difficulty accessing that email account - think I've forgotten the right password. And my notebook with passwords is left at home. :( 81.215.87.234 (talk) 18:06, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * No worries; I understand and am muy jealous. You can contact me here, or via a new email (whichever you choose). In any case, I'd love to hear about your travels and see any pix you happen to take. I'm guessing you'll be going further east than I've been... Kafka Liz (talk) 22:23, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

A belated reply
Hi Liz, thanks for stopping by my page, and sorry for the belated response - I've been out for a few days. Thanks too for the compliments re Ezra Pound. I learned a lot from that experience, mostly not to rush a difficult biography and never to listen to Ceoil, who refused to be a co-nom. Big biographies need time and a good crew, so I'm looking forward to having a crew on Vincent. I think we'll work well together - especially after peeking at your user page and seeing we're both displaying the same Sargent image, and that we share an interest in illuminated manuscripts! Truthkeeper88 (talk) 11:09, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * No worries about belatedness, TK - I am the queen of belated responses, generally (much to my chagrin, and to the irritation of even my most patient friends). Re: Pound... I know you did tons of good work on the article, and I was quite dismayed that it didn't get promoted. I confess I'm not 100% familiar with the objections - was it truly a lost cause, or might it be worth another shot?


 * In any case... I agree that we seem to have a lot of common interests and ought to work well together. That Sargent has always been a favourite of mine... :) Anyway, to cut to the chase, I am definitely looking forward to working with you. I have access to a pretty decent library (finally), so... if there's anything you are looking for and can't find, drop me a line: I may be able to find it and scan it (so we can all see work with it). Anyway... let me know. Good to meet you at last, Kafka Liz (talk) 01:52, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

User page
Just dropping by for a chat. I like to see that I'm not the only person to change my user page. I looked earlier today and have always liked that black cat, and I really liked "I'm shipping up to Boston". Just so you know that people notice :). Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:39, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey there. Thanks for the positive feedback! The changes I make there tend to be a strange mix - half crankiness and half fun. I am genuinely pleased that someone liked, though. :) "Shipping" has won a special place in my heart, especially now that it looks like I may have to move...Kafka Liz (talk) 20:15, 2 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Shipping is just so Boston. Reminds me of Dennis Lehane's books - don't know whether you're familiar with him, but very Boston. Moving is no fun ... but if you gotta, then you gotta go. I've moved many many times. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 20:45, 2 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh yes, I know Dennis Lehane - I don't make a habit of reading authors just because they're local (never read Robert Parker, for example) - but I do love Lehane.
 * I too have moved many times, and after a while... you get tired of it. I'd hoped to stay here, as I love New England, but the interviews I've had lately are nowhere near local.
 * And, by the way, congratulations on the Main Page today. Another awesome job. Kafka Liz (talk) 20:53, 2 July 2011 (UTC)


 * We share tastes in authors. I don't like Robert Parker - never read a single of his books. Thanks for the compliment - TFA is uncharacteristically boring, but that's good. I agree about moving - it gets tedious. The good thing though is that you're getting interviews. I've been looking for a new job where I live and know it's just not going to happen - for better pay, I'd have to move again. Gah! Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:09, 2 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, the compliment is well deserved. :) Anyway... if you're in academia (and obviously you needn't ( and probably shouldn't) confirm that), moving goes with the territory. I'm not - more of an adjunct - but many of my friends are, so I know a little bit of how bad it is to be constantly moving in search of tenure. As for interviews, it's taken a hell of a while, to be frank, but it is finally happening, so... fingers crossed. I hope you get speedier results than I have! Kafka Liz (talk) 21:23, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not an ivory tower sort of person. I'm happy to hear you're getting responses - that's good. Your conversation with Ceoil a few weeks ago about cannolli had me laughing, made me think of the North End. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:54, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, you're familiar with Our Fair City (ok, yes, that really applies to some other town, but still. I'm still a bit boggled at the idea that there are no Italians in Eire... It's such a common combination here (hated Catholic minorities, after all), and James Joyce, at least, would surely have appreciated them. And this new "heart" thing at the top of my page offers baklava and kittens, but not cannoli? Fie! Kafka Liz (talk) 22:03, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It's a very common combination. I have lots of friends who are Irish/Italian. And that occasional dark-haired, green-eyed look is to die for. I know Boston extremely well. I still visit - was there in the winter (during a big storm, airport closed and all, but impressive snow removal), and had hoped to get there this summer, which isn't looking hopeful at the moment. It is a hard place to leave. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 22:19, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Hope it's not intrusive, but I've emailed you. Kafka Liz (talk) 22:32, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You beat me to it. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 22:41, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Heh heh. Grin. Kafka Liz (talk) 22:55, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Email?
Perhaps you can send me an email. I apparently have lost yours and I do not see your email available in the margins of your wiki-page. Thanks! --Kansas Bear (talk) 04:05, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

You reverted me
The fk? Dangerous Liz from hell. Ceoil (talk) 01:10, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Suck it up, beeyotch. Plus I am bold. Feel free to revert and discuss. Kafka Liz (talk) 01:14, 24 October 2011 (UTC) ;) (a wink to convey my humourous intent)
 * Ouch, but if you think that level of internet tough guy impresses me, than well, fk you dude. Also, I am a scientist these days obsessed with . Ceoil (talk) 01:21, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Sheh. Pulled out the big guns so soon? | Are you amplified to rock? Lord, I miss them; must've seen them at least a dozen times... And surely you're not discovering the glories of Leonard Cohen only so late? He's something of an eternal good, in my book. Kafka Liz (talk) 01:34, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Hes ok, but a bit obtuse and gay. And by the way, beeyotch, I'll b 21 in June, so fuck you on your merry way. Joke; I'm not actually 20, I'm 22 1/2. Ceoil (talk) 14:14, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

FYI
He spoke and wrote in Persian, and was born in Khorasan (no Turks there). So, please don't revert in future. Thanks. Dohezarsersdah (talk) 13:33, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
 * And your explanation of the fact that it is credibly sourced is...? Kafka Liz (talk) 13:36, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I see the explanation in your edit summary; I'll review. Kafka Liz (talk) 13:37, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
 * He wrote in Persian, but the source is a reliable one and it does say he was from a Turkish family. Our opinions are really not very useful here, and how anyone can say there were no Turks there at that time is something I can't understand. Dougweller (talk) 17:01, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

New section
Greetings friend. I was told to pass the following message on to you: "Meowy is asking that you email him." With regards, --Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 06:41, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for letting me know, Marshal. I'm on it. :) Kafka Liz (talk) 21:10, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Potatoes
My last repsonce to you on my talk made no sence. Just just forget it. Ceoil (talk) 14:44, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Forget what? No idea what you're talking about. Are you off your meds? Kafka Liz (talk) 14:45, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * No its not like that; I just misread. Ceoil (talk) 15:19, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Already forgotten is what I meant, in all seriousness. Kafka Liz (talk) 15:21, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Seems like double jeporady and too many layers of irony. Lets start again, Hi I'm paul, how do you do? Ceoil (talk) 15:26, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Seldom say/write it, but LO-effin'-L. :D Kafka Liz (talk) 15:29, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey, that deodirant was imported from russia special, €0.35 a can. It might be cheap, but you cant say I dont have lots of it on. Ceoil (talk) 16:13, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I refuse to answer on the grounds I may incriminate myself. Kafka Liz (talk) 16:19, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The bear russian guy told me "women love that shit" (his exact words). I'm wearing €3.90 worth of the suff now. Enough to charm a woman or kill a cat or my money back. (Tabby is looking deciedly woozy bty) Ceoil (talk) 17:46, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm a bit unclear on the desired outcome? Kafka Liz (talk) 18:04, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Me too, and I gave him 10 quid. Ceoil (talk) 18:39, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Cheers for all the help in the last few days. Ceoil (talk) 20:02, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Happy to help, as always. I'll carry on, but I only have one decent source on me at the moment. What else do you feel needs doing at the moment? I have a few visual changes I'd suggest, if they can be managed, and the "Range" section is currently a bit confusing (some brief notes in my sandbox), but is there anything in particular you think needs expansion?
 * Nice pic, by the way. Kafka Liz (talk) 20:14, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Its very early days yet, the page isn't even half written, so any changes you think are needed, knock yourself out. I want to just add for now, I'll worry about org later, but fell free to move things about if it pleases my lady. O and I know what source you have. A co-editor on this one would be welcome as its a fairly large undertaking, and I'm just not that energetic! By tks for the so far work, dear. Ceoil (talk) 20:42, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, yes, that's the one. I'm actually able to remove it from the shelf, now that guardcat is gone.
 * I've been trying to figure out how to change the nasty colours on the timeline... The orange is better, but only just. Makes me feel like I have new messages from the lot of them. Kafka Liz (talk) 20:49, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The timeline colour needs to be muted; so as not to enduce eplipetic fits on our readers. And sorry to hear about guardcat; her face looked a bit loke how I imaging Malleus. Ceoil (talk) 21:00, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * That, my friend, is the august Rumpole. He's been gone for a while now, unfortunately. I can see the resemblance, though :D
 * We should probably work on beefing up the "In Popular Culture" section as well... There's a sad lack of references to Monty Python usage, just for starters. Kafka Liz (talk) 21:07, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I've been trawling the net for that and for Family guy references. And it would seem none of the works were ever used during a Rick Flair entrance. I expected better fromk Rick. The world is going to hell in a hat. Ceoil (talk) 21:17, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * . Cheers. Much appreciated and nicely done. Ceoil (talk) 00:06, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Glad you think it works. It took a bit of mulling over & messing with. Kafka Liz (talk) 00:08, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * And I'm not sure I'm entirely happy with the way the last bit (on the French, Germans and Estonians) just sits there... haven't quite come up with a way to integrate it better yet. Kafka Liz (talk) 00:11, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Its a tricky one, but your solution to the very acquard word "range", that - I - put into the title, is far better, tks. And there was some very odd, vague, sentence structures in there, now gone, I guess some from the 1919 britinnaca. A lot of the primary sources are from the late 19th / early 20th c, so they can be hard to pin down as to exacly what it is they mean exactly; they tended towards verbiage, and them some. More recent writers tend to be clear almost to the point of bluntness; short sentences, fact fact fact. No coincidence I suppose. Ceoil (talk) 00:29, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks :). There were definitely a couple of things in there that I just couldn't make head or tail of; it was just too vague, and not always referenced, so I took it out. Kafka Liz (talk) 00:35, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I hear your edit summary, so its good night from me. zz. Tune though. zz. . Ceoil (talk) 00:41, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Lovely. My mind's blank for a good tune to send back... too caught up in the Netherlands ;). Kafka Liz (talk) 00:46, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You'll have to try better than that with me. Well phrased excuse but I dont doubt that with a little effort you have a up your sleeve. Anyway; seriously this time....zz. Ceoil (talk) 00:58, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The only thing I have this evening - it's been in my head all day - didn't seem conducive to sleep. Both yours beat mine, at least for contextual tone.Kafka Liz (talk) 01:03, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Now thats scary. My first girlfiend was sister of that band's singers girlfriend (if you can follow that), and he was some nutter. He introduced us to Buzzcocks and PiL v early, and Viz Comic and the early electro bands when we were 16. V wierd mention, esp form a, well, bird. I cant, or am afraid to top that so, just, zz with . Ceoil (talk) 01:16, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Nah, I loved those guys. I didn't realize they were quite so local to you, though I did know they were Irish. Trying to remember where I first heard them.... It may have been the "I'm Your Fan" Cohen tribute album. I have at least two of their albums somewhere. On cassette. Something quieter in the meantime Kafka Liz (talk) 01:22, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Last post honestly; but like and hear where that tune is coming from, and can only say . zz for real this time. 01:41, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Now I'm curious about Mr Mansions, but it can wait 'til morning. Kafka Liz (talk) 02:27, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Hemingway
I need to stop. My eyes are spinning! I'll copy over your changes tomorrow - I have a little free time this week because of the holiday, so can pick at this. Thanks so much for helping. I'm not too impressed with the writing, but it's hard to stitch together sources and overwrite an existing page. I need to do some work with the sources and will go in later for a major copyedit. Also, I'm finding some sections are gone, sections that I specifically remember writing, so I'll have to find those in history, and I'm finding sources I've never read or added. In other words, it's beginning to degrade quite a lot. But that's life here. Anyway, if we don't touch bases in the next few days, enjoy your Thanksgiving. Truthkeeper (talk) 02:21, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Happy to help! Actually, I need to knock off for the evening too - my phone was lost most of the day, and I just discovered that my Mom has literally called me 20 times. Probably nothing serious, but I'm guessing I ought to give her a call so she doesn't think I'm dead or something. I should have some time over the next few days, though, so I'll just pick up on whatever section is next. And of course, have a great Thanksgiving too! Kafka Liz (talk) 02:35, 21 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Just to let you know that I'm blanking the page. I think everything else that needs to be done, can be done in mainspace. I probably won't get to it for a while - I'm taking it day by day but am inclined to be gone for a while. Just so you know and thanks again. Truthkeeper (talk) 02:31, 27 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Ok, no problem. I'll try taking a poke at it now and then, but to be honest I'll probably mostly hold off until you feel like coming back. Stay in touch, and take care... Kafka Liz (talk) 14:03, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

SBAP! Mughal Lohar
Saw your post on my talk page, besides my email I replied there, time for ANI, best thing is to revive the old ANI whose url I've put there (sorry, copy and paste with this iPad seems hard and I've lost it or I'd paste it here). Dougweller (talk) 14:46, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Note from an admirer
What's your fucking problem to delete my "Erlkönig"-contribution without any explanation?? This one certainly isn't of less "importance" than most of the others in this section! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.154.17.23 (talk) 20:44, 27 November 2011
 * Actually, most of the list there adds very little at all to the article; I just haven't had the time to go through them all yet. In the meantime, please read our policy on personal attacks and guideline on trivia. Cheers, Kafka Liz (talk) 21:00, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Ok, you're right (about the policy) - but me as a user I'm interested in the information who did an erlking-version in "popular culture". I enjoyed reading this list. And whatever gives you the postion to change other people's wiki-contributions on a regular basis (some special moderator status?) - just think about its popular view, too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.154.17.23 (talk) 22:54, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
 * No, I'm not a moderator or anyone special at all. If you've visited the mainpage, you may notice that Wikipedia bills itself as "the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit." "Popular culture" lists are tricky in that usually about 90% of the material doesn't actually add much to the understanding of the article's subject, which for me is the guideline as to what constitutes a useful contribution to lists of this type. A painting that is directly based on a particular poem, for example, or a noteworthy performance of a particular play (i.e., one that at least received substantial media coverage) would fit this description for me. Someone farting on a sitcom and then exclaiming "Erlkönig!" would not. That's an extreme example, obviously, and I am not equating your addition to such a case. But you asked, so I am trying to explain. Kafka Liz (talk) 22:25, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, Liz, if the number of "in popular culture" items reaches a critical mass they can be split off into their own little crufty article like William Blake in popular culture - then you never have to worry about the real article again. ;) Litho<FONT COLOR="#464646">derm</FONT> 07:34, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, and hopefully some passing and clued in admin will delete the thing. O and dont worry about the tool below; it takes all sorts to make the world spin. Ceoil (talk) 11:30, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
 * tool yourself. You're just a rolling barrel of bile. Alarbus (talk) 11:32, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
 * No, I'm just exhausted by agressive but essentially simple people like you. I can go worse than tool if you wish, prick. Ceoil (talk) 11:37, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Fair warning: WP:NPA. Alarbus (talk) 11:40, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Your a lovely person; contributors who pick on random FAs and aggresively issue untimatiums to the incumbands with lenghty verbose screeds on why the article is rubbish on the editor's talk pages, and then revert friends of the incumbants on their own talk page with the label TROLL, and cream it all with CIVIL warnings and as last resort reach to a misunderstanding of TCO and Sue's, are treasured valuable contributors and not worthless tools and pricks as I had said earlier. I forgot about that. Ceoil (talk) 11:51, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

I see I'll be needing caffeine this morning. Made some for you guys as well, though it looks like you've a start on me. Kafka Liz (talk) 11:53, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, jeez. I only intended to make one little snarky comment. I really don't have time to read up on this dispute. All I can say is that Ceoil, you really need to stop taking the bait from these guys. Alarbus, based solely on first impressions (I'm sure he's a fine person), reminds me of this guy. <FONT COLOR="#2F4F4F">Litho</FONT><FONT COLOR="#464646">derm</FONT> 18:23, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
 * :D I like that. How've you been, Lith? Kafka Liz (talk) 22:23, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

proper structure
The cites on that other page are a lost cause. But the core issue is proper structure, so I'll illustrate with another example. Seen WP:HLIST? The recent press on it? This is mostly about navboxes and there are about 1.6 million pages using them. Most are *really* poorly structured. Consider a simple navbox; title says whatever, maybe a flag or other picture, maybe some groups, but most are simply about a dozen links. The links are separated from each other; the really old ones use the 'pipe' ("|") which looks really poor. Most use a middot, which is what that character is for. Semantically, what are these boxfuls of links? They're WP:LISTS of links. You know; like all the ones that start with <tt>*</tt>, except they run horizontally. The navbox template takes named parameters such as <tt>list1 = foo</tt>, which acknowledge this.

You've obviously seen many of these. See Islands and provinces of the Canary Islands, which I, just now. This is a simple one. This about using proper structure. Most navboxes are full of nasty little templates like ·w, and the nowrap begin nowrap end pair. The Canary Islands one is a very typical example; hundreds of thousands like it.

The ·w and nowrap suite are about keeping the middot from wrapping to the next line when things reach whatever full-width is. They generate a sea of horrid code that is sent to hundreds of millions of readers a month. This is a performance issue; it takes time to download the extra code. Far worse, though, it that the web servers have to generate all that code, over, and over, and over again. This is the core reason large pages take so long to generate and why many pages reach their two megabyte preprocessing limit (cite templates are a lesser culprit).

old: <pre style="white-space: normal;">
 * list1 = Fuerteventura Gran Canaria La Gomera El Hierro Lanzarote La Palma Tenerife

new:


 * list1 =
 * Fuerteventura
 * Gran Canaria
 * La Gomera
 * El Hierro
 * Lanzarote
 * La Palma
 * Tenerife

The new form is obviously easier for editors to edit; it's vastly more approachable and familiar to anyone who has edited even a modest amount. Even more importantly, it is producing semantically valid markup that screen readers and search engines will much appreciate. The nowrap issues are handled automatically at a higher level. The code downloaded to readers is less weighty and it's far easier on the servers that have to generate it.

old served-code: <pre style="white-space: normal;"> <a href="/wiki/Fuerteventura" title="Fuerteventura">Fuerteventura</a>&#160;· <a href="/wiki/Gran_Canaria" title="Gran Canaria">Gran Canaria</a>&#160;· <a href="/wiki/La_Gomera" title="La Gomera">La Gomera</a>&#160;· <a href="/wiki/El_Hierro" title="El Hierro">El Hierro</a>&#160;· <a href="/wiki/Lanzarote" title="Lanzarote">Lanzarote</a>&#160;· <a href="/wiki/La_Palma" title="La Palma">La Palma</a>&#160;· <a href="/wiki/Tenerife" title="Tenerife">Tenerife</a>

new served-code: <ul> <li><a href="/wiki/Fuerteventura" title="Fuerteventura">Fuerteventura</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Gran_Canaria" title="Gran Canaria">Gran Canaria</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/La_Gomera" title="La Gomera">La Gomera</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/El_Hierro" title="El Hierro">El Hierro</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Lanzarote" title="Lanzarote">Lanzarote</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/La_Palma" title="La Palma">La Palma</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Tenerife" title="Tenerife">Tenerife</a></li> </ul>

Still with me? The new served-code is properly structured: an unordered list of links; it's properly structured and the crap about wrapping is simply gone. The now-absent templates take zero-time for the servers to parse. Readers get served a page that is smaller, and that their screen reader or mobile phone will have a better chance of presenting to them in a useful form.

This project is about building an online encyclopaedia for everyone. Sure, it needs content, and content writers. It does not need the endless inflated egos that get all encumbered with 'their' articles. It stops being any person's property when they hit save. It needs high standards using a lot of metrics, not just Brilliant Prose. Articles should not pass FA, or even GA, without *all* reasonable standards having been met. But Wikipedia is notorious for its political infighting. FA is a power-nexus, and those running that party are doing so on a platform of Content-is-King (or Queen). It's really a sort of demagoguery. And it's really entrenched and lashing-out at all criticism. Most recently that came from Sue Gardner. The FA fiefdom has good reason to fear her criticism. She owns the servers, and the WMF is intent on more openness and is determined to move forward at greater than the speed of consensus. It has to, because all this turf-defense is retarding the project. Alarbus (talk) 05:14, 3 December 2011 (UTC)


 * T his is just blowing my mind. Alarbus, are you suggesting that because Sue Gardner owns the servers the Hemingway page needs hundreds of templates for the cites. Don't bother to respond. Oh, btw - when it comes to coding and servers, and such, I'm not like totally unknowledgeable. Truthkeeper (talk) 13:57, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
 * This is not the all-Hemingway-channel; the above was about the structure of navboxes. Alarbus (talk) 15:06, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You know I'm sure you are great at whatever the fuck you do and all, but have you considered that not being such a condesending prick to incumbants that have spend whatver number of hours, days and weeks on article you randioumly drop into might be a better approach. Your upsetting people. Stop that. Ceoil (talk) 15:11, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Online fan club
Wow Liz, you seem to be quite popular these days. I need to find/make an "Online Fan Club Barnstar" and give you one. :-D --Kansas Bear (talk) 06:39, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Pretty crazy, eh? And here I thought I could sneak back after some months away and no one would notice. Good to see you again! :) Kafka Liz (talk) 11:45, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
 * And you Liz. Hope you are doing well. :) --Kansas Bear (talk) 15:05, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

edit warring - gibberish
This is your only warning; if you vandalize Wikipedia again,1 you may be blocked from editing without further notice. --213.16.160.199 (talk) 13:36, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war&#32; according to the reverts you have made. Users are expected to collaborate with others and avoid editing disruptively --213.16.160.199 (talk) 13:36, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

You okay?
Lots upset people today, no? I don't like look of the warnings above. Truthkeeper (talk) 22:46, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, that's nothing, really. Standard response of an edit-warrior who's picked up a trick or two. I'd move it, but the whole thing is essentially laughable. Thanks for asking, though :) Kafka Liz (talk) 22:51, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Book of Kells
I cant parse this edit can you take a look. Txks. Ceoil (talk) 02:04, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it is meaningless in this context. Nortep/norpac is apparently an education program in Saskatchewan. If this is a relevant citation of a published paper, it hasn't been presented as such. Kafka Liz (talk) 02:16, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Cheers. You owe me several tunes, by the way. Ceoil (talk) 02:45, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
 * That I do. Kafka Liz (talk) 02:56, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

city of Azerbaijan - Ganja
Hi Kafka Liz,

Please check reference links for topic "Demography of Ganja", they are not working. It is distortion of historic facts, that why I removed text about armenian community in Ganja. This is nothing to do with real history.

Please check this web page, but it is unfortunately in russian http://west-land.az/index.php?mod=static&page=ssr11&lang=ru, maybe I can translate it in google translate and paste it in Demography?

Kind Regards, MyJustice — Preceding unsigned comment added by MyJustice (talk • contribs) 01:13, 8 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi MyJustice,


 * There are a lot of links in that section - can you tell me which ones specifically are the problem? the ones I've checked so far seem to be all right, and in any case, the fact that some links may be dead is not really a good reason to delete an entire section. I'll look at the link you've provided, but I really don't know any Russian. Since this is English Wikipedia, a source in English would be much better for our users to understand and evaluate, if you happen to have one. Thanks, Kafka Liz (talk) 01:20, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi Kafka,

problems are on 1st 2nd links...they does not exist it is one thing, another is, that text which is in the topic "Demography" is written by someone (more probably by ARMENIAN) who is trying to write new his own history. I hope you know that Azerbaijan and Armenia is still in WAR condition. In that case I would like to be more careful with adding stuff by "some" users.

Of course it is our (azerbaijani people) problem, that we are not often checking information related to Azeri topic in wikipedia, but it is seems to me, that first posted information will stay until that time when someone will replace it with more correct with reference...

true info is here: http://history.az/en/Kitabxana/Kitablar/20101013030013066.html it is book in PDF (in russian again : and documentary http://history.az/en/Kitabxana/Senedler/20100106062052866.html (in azeri :

http://history.az/en/Kitabxana/Senedler/ it is official governmental web-page.

Thank you, Kind Regards, MyJustice — Preceding unsigned comment added by MyJustice (talk • contribs) 01:57, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

User:Mursel
This editor is using this sentence, "These people were the direct ancestors of present-day Azerbaijanis, spoke a Turkic language and adopted the Shi'i brand of Islam dominant in neighboring Iran." which is Mursel's version from Suny's book that actually states, "These people, the direct ancestors of present-day Azerbaijanis, spoke a Turkic language and adopted the Shi'i brand of Islam dominant in neighboring Iran." which changes the entire perspective of the sentence. Since the previous sentence mentions the Seljuks, who "spoke a Turkic language". Therefore user:Mursel is implimenting original research. --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:29, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I may have this the wrong way, but here are my thoughts. First, the quote should be corrected to reflect what the source actually says. Second, I'm not sure the entire thing need be included at all, if the point is merely to show that Ghandazar was an independent See. It's pretty clear from the context that the author is referring the Seljuks, not the Caucasian Albanians, as the "direct ancestors of present day Azerbaijanis", and I'm not sure I see the point in adding it. I'd support trimming the quote to what is relevant to the article at hand. If there's something I've missed here... please let me know :). Kafka Liz (talk) 23:31, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry Liz. I should have expanded on the issue. Here user:Mursel has taken his original research and used it in the Caucasian Albania article. Stating that Caucasian Albanians "were the ancestors of present day Azerbaijanis" and "the territory of Artsakh historically belongs to them" which the source does not support either statement. --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:09, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
 * ...And I somehow completely missed this post (facepalm). My apologies for being stupid. That is a complete misrepresentation and doesn't belong at all. Kafka Liz (talk) 14:07, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It appears Marshall Bagramyan has started a discussion concerning the Suny source and probably needs to be added into this discussion. --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:12, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, this sheds more light on the issue. I confess that Suny is not a scholar I'm familiar with (and have had little time to research), so this is helpful. If his theories are indeed flawed, then there is little reason to include them. I was erring on the side of caution here and will review. Kafka Liz (talk) 00:31, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I thank Kansas Bear for inviting me to weigh in on this, as well as for taking the time to compare and contrast what Suny says and what Mursel has written down. Ronald Suny is an excellent scholar when it comes to Soviet affairs and modern history, but the study of the ancient and medieval periods are not really his strong points. The scholarly consensus is that the Caucasian Albanians were assimilated by the Armenians, Georgians, and Muslims by the tenth century. To say "These people, the direct ancestors of present-day Azerbaijanis,..." is somewhat of a stretch and, at best, an oversimplification. I think if something needs to be said about the Albanians, then there are much better authors to start with, such as Robert Hewsen. Thanks for letting us make use of your talk page Kafka Liz :) --Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 06:58, 12 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I was reading too fast and looking at the wrong page. Thanks for weighing in on this. :) Kafka Liz (talk) 14:07, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Just thought I should let you know
Your name was mentioned here, as were a few accusations thrown your way. Best, --Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 19:01, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi Marshal - thanks for letting me know. That's certainly... interesting? Amusing? Sad? I don't really know how to respond to that. I do try to keep things neutral and fact-based on various Turkey-related articles, but most of my work here concerns Western art. The issue Meowy wanted to email him about was not related to Armenia; I can forward the email in question (with his permission, of course, and only if necessary) to any checkuser who seriously believes that there's an issue, but I can assure you it was on an entirely personal matter. Kafka Liz (talk) 19:28, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Can I help?
What did you want? Dougweller (talk) 20:07, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi Doug. I had a question regarding the above matter, in that I don't know how seriously to take it. Apparently I am accused of being . Kafka Liz (talk) 20:13, 12 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't worry about it, we get accused of all sorts of things at times. Dougweller (talk) 20:27, 12 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Good to know. Thanks for taking a look. Kafka Liz (talk) 20:28, 12 December 2011 (UTC)


 * So............is there something you need to tell me about yourself, Liz?? :-p --Kansas Bear (talk) 01:27, 13 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, apparently, I'm actually a cat. Or a duck. I'm not sure which. Perhaps I ought to email myself and find out. ;) Kafka Liz (talk) 01:38, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi
I just wanted to stop by and say hi. I'm sure anyone watching my page has thought I've gone mad - not really. Only a huge case of frustration combined with a heavy heavy work load. Sometimes it's just too easy to slap those templates on when all that's needed is a day away. Truthkeeper (talk) 00:47, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * No worries - everyone I know, self included, has done such upon occasion, and you had more reasons than most. I didn't know whether to contact you because I wasn't sure what to say. The other day was a bit rough. Are things better? You can reply here, or email if you choose. Good to hear from you, either way. :) Kafka Liz (talk) 00:51, 14 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Just stopping in for a second because to be honest, although I like to dress all in black, it's overwhelming on the page, and it was done in anger. I think they should make a new template - something like "I really want to retire but I'm sure I'll be back in a day or so" type of thing. I'll be out for a little while - I'm very burned out from overwork and need a little rest time. And it's a busy time of year in general so something has to give in my life. Truthkeeper (talk) 01:10, 14 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Absolutely hear ya. And nice to meet another black-clad lady. Take time with your loved ones... though in my experience, they outdo any stress wiki can ever produce. That said, they are more important. Do things that make you happy, and remember you have friends here. Kafka Liz (talk) 01:14, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

You
Are editing some seriously depressing pages today; and coming from a 20 year Joy Division obsessive, me saying that is a serious thing. I'm thin king of going in on Puff, the Magic Dragon later tonight, will you watch my back? Ceoil (talk) 21:32, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yah, pissed off over some stuff. Puff might be just the thing I need. Sure thing. Kafka Liz (talk) 21:35, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Cool, but there is some seriously, crazy hippies controling that page. We'll have to subtly tag team, but dont tell anyone, and delete this email after you get it. He he. Ceoil (talk) 21:40, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, Thin King of Puff. Mum's the word. The cabal shall have its way. Kafka Liz (talk) 21:43, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I dont really care about Puff, I'm just seriously bord and doing it for kicks. Also I hate hippies. I might get blocked tonight, dunno havnt decided yet. Any amusing anecdotes or fun facts to keep me amused in the meantime? Ceoil (talk) 21:58, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Also FINALLY found a torrent for the Tribe called Quest doc; I highly recommend it you can get your hands on it.. Ceoil (talk) 22:01, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Fiber is your friend, regarding blocking ;) Funny anecdotes I have by the handful, though few are fit to grace the pages of wiki. And I still can't get torrents to work on my tiny antique machine.... >:( Kafka Liz (talk) 22:13, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Fire away just change FUCK to flip, shit to poop, stupid fucking bollocks to fool etc and bobs your uncle. Fun for all the family. Also dude you need a new machine; its a golden age for piracy - dont miss out! Ceoil (talk) 22:24, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * "Doody" might work better for shit, but I'll vary things up. I'll go 19th century on prick, tool, etc., to avoid offending delicate sensibilities. Kafka Liz (talk) 22:41, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * . Its long and has to be heard from start to finish. Best thing Richie Hawtin has done, IMO, including the early F.U.S.E work. Also I assume the vid pic is Barnett Newman, though Modernist might have a better idea. Whoever put in on youtube made a very astute association between mininmalist music and art. Ceoil (talk) 18:24, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Nice. Very subtle; I appreciate it. Something less so but also good. Kafka Liz (talk) 20:54, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Christmas Greetings from Downunder
from Amandajm (talk) 13:20, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Very lovely. Thank you, Amandajm, and Happy Christmas! Kafka Liz (talk) 13:22, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Inky fingers and Christmas greetings!
I have nothing to offer but inky fingers! I tried fixing my fountain pen myself for Christmas cards - this almost a week ago - and my fingers still have black spots! Very good ink; very broken pen. Anyway, hope your holidays are wonderful! Truthkeeper (talk) 22:28, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Inky fingers are the best kind! Sorry to hear the pen is still behaving badly... I didn't actually write any this year - time kinda got away from me. Anyway, thanks for the holiday wishes, and the very best to you and yours! :) Kafka Liz (talk) 22:43, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll need to send the pen out when I can afford to and thanks for the names! In the meantime I used a crappy one from a craft kit and it was surprisingly good - but I bought cards with good paper which always helps - and need to finish them tonight for friends who don't mind late Christmas cards. I hope you'll have company during Christmas and won't be alone! At any rate, I finally crawled out from a mountain of work and will have time to play in next few weeks so will stop by to chat. Truthkeeper (talk) 23:17, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Excellent! I really will have to get on the ball next year and send some out. I'm down home with my folks at the moment, so all's well on the company front. Hoping you're with your family or other loved ones as well, and glad to hear you'll have some free time! Kafka Liz (talk) 23:18, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Lets celebrate
...All the best...Modernist (talk) 02:49, 24 December 2011 (UTC) Red an white wine in glass.jpg|thumb|left|250px|, A toast Liz to the holidays and to the new year...Modernist (talk) 02:49, 24 December 2011 (UTC)]]...All the best...Modernist (talk) 02:49, 24 December 2011 (UTC) Wine and flowers! Thanks, Modernist! A toast to holidays, a New Year, and good friends.* Kafka Liz (talk) 03:07, 24 December 2011 (UTC)


 * * Meaning you and probably anyone else who happens to read this. Y'all know who you are.


 * Uh oh... Honoré Daumier lithographie parue dans Le Charivari en 1848..jpg
 * Drinks, flowers and 18th c hoars. How come no one told me about this shin-dig? Hmm. Ceoil (talk) 00:36, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I dunno - Modernist brought wine and flowers; I brought the girls - whatcha got, mister? Kafka Liz (talk) 00:53, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * An article on an eroticised Jesus, and scars from the infobox wars. Hmm, no wonder I dont get invited to these things. O and yer man to the right to keep us amused. Soon as get gets over his depression and decides to entertain us. If he mentions his fucking dead wife once more I swaer I'll strangel him. Ceoil (talk) 01:10, 26 December 2011 (UTC)


 * (Edit conflict) I'll see your 19th century whores and raise you some foolish virgins eager to get it on Medieval style... And btw, I guess Master L. Cz. will have to do as my Christmas card for everyone... hooray for demons... <FONT COLOR="#2F4F4F">Litho</FONT><FONT COLOR="#464646">derm</FONT> 01:13, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * As long as everyone's wicks get trimmed, we should be in good shape. All the other gals ran away; heard there was better action at the Oregon project. Master L Cz is a wonderful card... nice article. In return, one of the more popular works of Master L Ck. Kafka Liz (talk) 01:31, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Funny stuff! Hoping you don't mean that literally. ;) <FONT COLOR="#2F4F4F">Litho</FONT><FONT COLOR="#464646">derm</FONT> 02:15, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh gosh no. Just the first funny thing I could grab. Though as a Boston driver, the situation is a familiar one. The road rage bit, that is. Kafka Liz (talk) 02:23, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

High Desert
It is amazing, isn't it? Maybe you'd be interested in joining WikiProject Oregon?

Happy holidays! --<font style="font-family:Rockwell">Jsayre64 <font style="font-family:Rockwell">(talk)  01:20, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi, Jsayre64, and happy holidays to you! Thank you for your invitation... I'm afraid I don't know much about Oregon, though I did travel along a fair portion of the Oregon Trail once. I had no idea that part of the state was desert (didn't make it quite that far) - it looks very much like parts of Utah and Nevada, which surprised me quite a bit. I don't know how much I can add, but if there's anything in particular you'd like me to take a look at, just ask. Thanks, :) Kafka Liz (talk) 01:40, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

wiki Project me
You about? . Ceoil (talk) 03:18, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Am now. Kafka Liz (talk) 03:30, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * So, is it 1992 again or what. Pixies up in your face, and what ya going to do about it. Ceoil (talk) 03:33, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm... something to match that... my head's full of sand. Kafka Liz (talk) 03:37, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * There . If we're doing live stuff, that it. You can't hear it all that well... Kafka Liz (talk) 03:42, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Perfect! I love it! :D The expression on the poor kid's face... Is this guy like Zwarte Piet or something? I mean, the one who beats the bad kids, not the one who hands out goodies. Kafka Liz (talk) 03:59, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, Krampus a bit more along the Knecht Ruprecht line in terms of beating up naughty children. As far as I know all Zwarte Piet does is give candy and offend people. I only ran into it because someone had dyk'd the article on him. And it turns out we have an article on Companions of Saint Nicholas in general... ah Wikipedia. <FONT COLOR="#2F4F4F">Litho</FONT><FONT COLOR="#464646">derm</FONT> 04:09, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Awesome! Thanks for those. As my Latin teacher used to say, consider the day lost in which you learn nothing. I just couldn't help but think of David Sedaris' "six to eight black men". Beatings commence at 8:10. Kafka Liz (talk) 04:26, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Have nothing left to say. Ceoil (talk) 04:16, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Nice. I'm too brain dead to come up with anything good tonight... Kafka Liz (talk) 04:36, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thats fine; good for relaxing/ wallowing. Very David Lynch / Gainsbourough, not a little sinister.. Ceoil (talk) 00:42, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Pretty girl :) The sound reminds me of Portishead. Redundant [link]. Not the same, but reminded me. Kafka Liz (talk) 01:03, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh never liked Portishead or at least the people who liked Portishead, who never seems to have much interest in music otherwise. Coffey table, and just a gathering of 'cool' influences. This one seems a bit different, Note each vocal line descendes below the preceeding, a very vampy trick, but have not heard it often before. And O is she hot, hadnt noticed By contrast liked the Mick Harvey tune from yesterday, wondering why you removed, the similar names being why I posted. Ceoil (talk) 01:22, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Ha ha. Portishead can be a gateway for those with a speck of curiosity. When I first heard them, it was a pretty different sound for me; got me investigating stuff. If you hear them and don't know the influences but want to... you see?
 * The Mick Harvey I love... I dunno why I took it down, except that I was getting sleepy and started to think I was being a flake. Decided to call it a night and just go listen to tunes in a purely selfish way ;) Kafka Liz (talk)
 * Blue Lines was already a few years old by then, and of course and . I hear you re late night indecision. I have to be at work for 2pm tomorrow, so prob wont wipe this post for a while yet. Ceoil (talk) 02:00, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Children's lit
Hey Liz - you said to let you know if I'd be doing something in children's lit. I've been eyeing either the Brothers Grimm (the page is a mess!) or Charles Perrault, but am leaning toward Perrault because I have more sources. I'd hoped to start fairly soon but something's come up and I won't have as much editing time as I expected, so it's looking like a long-term project. Anyway, just letting you know, and would love to have your help when my time frees up (which isn't looking good unfortunately). Truthkeeper (talk) 12:47, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads up. I'll watchlist both, and look through my shelves to see what I have. Most of the fairytale stuff (yes, I have books on fairytales :) ) is down at my folks' place, but I think there are a few up here too. Kafka Liz (talk) 00:01, 29 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I have some journal articles and a few books I've checked out of the library but haven't even cracked them yet. All I've done and looked at the pages (and a few fairy tale pages), but decided that Perrault is more interesting but depends on what I find once I get into the sources. Next month or so. Truthkeeper (talk) 01:10, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, keep me posted. It looks like a lot of what I have here is Victorian era, but there's a general work that might give me some starters. And the Victorian stuff might be useful for a "Legacy" section. Kafka Liz (talk) 01:25, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The Victorian stuff will work for a legacy section because I'm planning to stuff with images that I used in Edmund Evans by Crane, Caldecott and Greenaway. I have a plan of sorts in my mind. Truthkeeper (talk) 03:31, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hope to see an outline in your sandbox soon :) A lot of what I have currently seems to be heavy on the Andrew Lang, but there's some other stuff as well, and there might be some good Cruikshank illustrations as well, if I remember correctly. Kafka Liz (talk) 04:40, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Well now, I might not mind doing the Andrew Lang page - that one is a mess too. The Grimm Brothers looks like a big mess because there are separate pages for the two brothers and then the single page for the brothers - which seems like a lot of tidying and I'm not sure I'm up for such a big task. Perrault interests me vaguely, but I could be persuaded to do a smaller page on someone like Lang. Do you mind having a look at the different pages and letting me know what you think? Truthkeeper (talk) 14:03, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure - all of them, or just the Grimms? (not to be too lazy about it ;) )Kafka Liz (talk) 14:54, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll only be able to get to one - and that will be stretch. I'm on the fence - the Grimms/Perrault would be a lot of rewriting. Lang less rewriting and not as well known but interesting.  I'll think about it a bit, but meant to say in the earlier post to have a look at the pages and to see which one you think might be the best. And this is not at all something I'm planning to immediately - maybe in the next month or so. Truthkeeper (talk) 19:35, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * My initial instinct is to go with Perrault, but let me give them a thorough read... I was wondering, would you be able to get an article or two for me? I just started Stoclet Frieze and I'd really like to be able to expand it. Kafka Liz (talk) 20:51, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * If you think Perrault and I think Perrault, then we should do Perrault. I have The Oxford Companion to Fairy Tales and journal articles but as I said, not even cracked them yet. When I have time I'll evaluate the journal articles and send on whatever looks good. Send me a link for whatever you need and I'll retrieve. Can't do it today though - am on my way out very soon. Truthkeeper (talk) 21:17, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Perrault it is, then. I'm pretty sure there's some stuff at my folks that should be useful, and I'll probably be down there again before we start. I have an "Oxford Companion to Children's Literature" here, which is less specific but not a bad place to start. The article that looks most useful is this one by M.E. Warlick. Everything else seems to be mainly book reviews, and so less useful than the books themselves. I'll have to scheme a bit to get my hands on them, but it might be doable. Thanks! Kafka Liz (talk) 21:31, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I had a moment, so ping. Good luck with the page. Truthkeeper (talk) 22:33, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, you rock! Thanks so much! This should help a lot. Kafka Liz (talk) 23:03, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * No prob. Btw - can you keep a watch of this list of fairytales. I've commented on the talk, but someone wants to do a wholesale purge - which is fine if they've bothered to check sources. Which I suspect hasn't happened. Truthkeeper (talk) 14:26, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure thing. It looks like I'm a bit late to the party, though. The only source I have on hand with anything approaching a definition is the Oxford Companion I mentioned above, and it more or less agrees with the rewritten lead. Kafka Liz (talk) 18:44, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Possible complete change of plan - I just noticed the The Core Contest that's kicking off in January. The Brothers Grimm are on the core list, Perrault not, but Hans Christian Anderson is. Would you be interested in doing an article with me for this contest? Would have to be the Grimms or Anderson, unless we find something else (still going through the list). It would be a sprint instead of a lazy walk (which is what I had in mind ...). Also thanks for the comment at the list page - that lead still needs work, but at least something's there. Truthkeeper (talk) 21:52, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I am, but January's going to be a busy month for me - I'm working a lot of extra shifts. Should be fine overall, I think, though. I see they haven't yet announced the dates, which makes it a bit tricky to commit at this point. Tentative yes? Kafka Liz (talk) 23:53, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * My January schedule isn't great either (am in trying to avoid thinking about it!) but if I clear the decks now and only edit a single page during that period should be okay. I know you're feeling a bit overextended and I don't want to put pressure on either of us, so I think if we do it, just try to do the best we can during the period without feeling we have to get to any kind of a review. Truthkeeper (talk) 00:50, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I think that will work, and the fact that is is just for a specific, limited period is helpful in that it doesn't take us away from other things for too long. There's an end in sight, in other words, which makes it easier to focus. It'll be a little weird - I haven't worked under such conditions here before - but an interesting challenge. Kafka Liz (talk) 01:23, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I haven't either, so it'll be interesting. I do like the idea of a very short burst of energy devoted to a single topic, so we'll see how it goes. Truthkeeper (talk) 01:26, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Btw - Happy New Year! Whatever it is you're doing tonight, I hope you enjoy yourself. I'm happy we've gotten to know each other this year. Truthkeeper (talk) 17:58, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Happy New Year to you! I'm not sure yet what I'm doing - just thinking over the logistics of it and waiting to hear back from a couple of friends. And very glad to have met you as well - working and talking with you is a genuine pleasure, and I'm looking forward to the coming year. Any plans for the evening yourself? Kafka Liz (talk) 18:10, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'll be visiting friends - it's a long-standing tradition and always fun. I realize it's nice to have another woman friend here - though am hesitant to admit because the whole gender thing is becoming such a twisted issue here. Anyway, have fun tonight. Truthkeeper (talk) 18:17, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Pff the gender thing. I do hear you, though. I remember I thought you were a guy when I first noticed you - long time back, right around the time I (mostly) stopped editing. You were working on Pound at the time, as I recall. I'm sure I'm not the only one who thought so; hope that doesn't bother you. :) Kafka Liz (talk) 18:36, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * No, it doesn't bother me. Almost everyone here thought I was a man and I never admitted either way - for most the first year or so I was editing.  Someone, who shall remain nameless,  who was particularly astute made the right guess and let the cat out of the bag so to speak. Gotta get back to Pound someday .... so much to do! Truthkeeper (talk) 18:42, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Ha ha, not going to ask, though now I'm curious. ;) That reminds me: what's the deal with Homer Omar Pound? He's... someone else's? Kafka Liz (talk) 19:00, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Dorothy went off to Egypt on her own for about 4 to 5 months and came back pregnant. When Omar was born Hemingway drove her to the hospital - Ezra was AWOL and didn't tell his parents "they" had a child until some time after Omar was born. Olivia ended up taking care of Omar. It was explained in the page at one point, and I need to pull out that section from the version I wrote and try to clarify it again. Should also be in the Dorothy page too. Thanks for the reminder. Truthkeeper (talk) 19:07, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, had no idea. I have a biography or two here, but I confess I never got around to finishing them. I was confused because it was only mentioned on one page, I think. Interesting. Kafka Liz (talk) 19:25, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

FYI - I finally had time today to read the journal articles I'd printed before the holidays and turns out I have enough sources to focus exclusively on Perrault's Histoires ou contes du temps passé for now. I just wanted you to know. I can get enough from the sources at hand to expand the individual stories and then I'll do the biography at the end. Stuff keeps coming up though, so am not sure how much editing time I have these days. Am taking it day by day. Truthkeeper (talk) 04:16, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I know you're busy this month, but could use help here if you're interested. I've have the foundation in place but still a lot to do. I have tons of work (as in real work) to do so will need to let this sit for a little while but wanted to get it done while the material was fresh in my head. Truthkeeper (talk) 02:16, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Happy New Year
All the best!...Modernist (talk) 22:35, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * And to you! Thanks, Modernist! Kafka Liz (talk) 06:12, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Klimt
Happy new year etc. Uh, we are both working on Klimt articles, and both are going to be though, there is not a lot of published work out there, least of all on your choice more than mine. I'm inclinded to stick with them though, I dont have easy access to libaries, but I do to 2nd hand book stores, and as both things are within a few years I recokon most pieces that deal with the Kiss will also have material on the Frieze. Both articles have a lot of potentional and I guess the more we look into them and find the more facinating they will be. Might be a slow game, but fun and interesting. Ceoil (talk) 06:25, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Back atcha. Libraries are all closed tomorrow, plus I might need the time for rest & recovery personal time on my private yacht while pondering the content creator's cabal. Us elitist fucks, what can you do. About the articles... 's doable. Just means I have to get off my lazy ass & venture into the Lair of the Beast. If you follow. Kafka Liz (talk) 06:34, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * And to think, some of "us" are stuck in Kansas! --Kansas Bear (talk) 07:26, 1 January 2012 (UTC)