User talk:Pigsonthewing/Archive 30

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Japanese text encoding
Are you absolutely sure that you see no difference between this text that is in this section and the text on the rest of your page? Your browser should most definitely identify this text as being encoded as lang="ja" rather than as lang="en" or lang="ru"
 * Yes. Please explain on what basis you believe my browser should "render it differently", and give examples of browsers which do so. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 21:56, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Firefox automatically chooses its Japanese language encodings to format the line I sent you.— Ryulong (竜龙 ) 22:41, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
 * You can report Firefox bugs at https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/ Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 22:50, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
 * You almost certainly have different fonts set for Japanese and Western text. See Options - Content - Fonts & colors - Advanced. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 23:09, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Why wouldn't someone set different fonts for Japanese and Western text? Helvetica (for example) doesn't contain the proper characters to display Japanese, and neither do most other Western fonts commonly used to display text on web pages. You shouldn't be using lang as a wrapper around romanized Japanese as it is already romanized and therefore needs no special markers for the browser to render properly. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 07:40, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Lang does not give the browser "special markers" to use to "render [text] properly"; it defines the language of that text; no more and no less. As I have already told you this, and you choose to ignore it, and continue to wrongly conflate character set with language, there seems to be little point continuing this discussion - but please note this relates to a known bug with Firefox, which Mozilla have undertaken to fix. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 12:16, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
 * As far as I am aware, you have never told me any such thing. As for the rest, you're playing at semantics. Defining the language of the text is definitely a special marker as it identifies the language and allows the browser to use the proper font to display it (if a special font or group of fonts is required rather than using the default font specified by the OS or browser). It's not just Firefox that displays it in an odd way. Safari does it, too (though to a lesser extent), and it uses a completely different rendering engine than Firefox (and that family of browsers). ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 21:17, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

I told you, and. Until you understand how the  attribute works, and the difference between language and character set, or are at least prepared to learn, please don't bother me again. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 11:12, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 October 2011
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This Month in GLAM: October 2011
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infobox desalination plant
another one for you, again, a template that I unsubstituted, and is probably missing some microformats. Frietjes (talk) 21:03, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
 * All done, thank you. And good work!. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 21:15, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Problems with PoIgb or kml templates
Hi, there seems to be a problem with either the PoIgb or kml templates, as all of the POI tables on UK Canal articles display on Google and Bing with points marked #4 and #1, rather than names. I notice that you altered both on 24 October. I do not know where to start to fix it. Can you help? Bob1960evens (talk) 22:51, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Can you give me an example article, please? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 23:31, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes. Aberdeenshire Canal or Aberdare Canal, both of which were working until recently. (If you need any more, any of the ones on my user page with a P in the Article column). Bob1960evens (talk) 23:19, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe this was when the "name=" feature was removed. I have added it back. Frietjes (talk) 23:52, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It all seems to be working now. Bob1960evens (talk) 11:56, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

TAG session
Hi Andy, Pat Hadley here. Apparently Lorna has been trying to get in touch about your abstract for TAG in Birmingham. Can you get in touch with us ASAP! The abstracts are due today! Many thanks PatHadley (talk) 09:47, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi Andy
Saw you'd made changes to DMAG articles. I guess thats for your talk there. I thought I'd add this note so you can say that someone does keep an eye on all the articles. Obviously it should be the museum! But I do check their list daily. Oh and we need to talk? Victuallers (talk) 09:53, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

MonmouthpediA
Hi Andy

I just wanted to say hi, I've started the GLAM project MonmouthpediA, as part of it I'm doing a flora and fauna guide/categories (not sure yet), I will be working with local people and ecology groups. I'm wondering if there is some overlap with ARKive if there are any British species you are looking at, the people I'm working with are very knowledgable and some of them deal with habitat protection as part of their jobs.

All the best Mrjohncummings (talk) 23:48, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 7 November2011
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horizontal class
after the following change to common.css,, your microformat templates now are displaying as vertical lists, rather than flat lists. Frietjes (talk) 16:11, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I ; I'll see what else I can track down, but feel free to join in ;-) Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 16:43, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
 * All microformat-related templates prefixed UF- are fixed. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 16:58, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Wholesale reverts
I agree with you about the ordered list. But there's a move afoot to whack flatlist/hlist dead. To make wiki safe for "incompatibility mode". Alarbus (talk) 15:40, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Template talk:Navbox
 * thousands of usages
 * *sigh* Thank you. On it. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 16:30, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. It looks like Edokter has a hack for !ie to make the nowrap go away for retarded browsers. I couldn't care less if those browsers' users get a reduced experience. Ya don't get colour on a B&W TV, either. They'll get the content, which is the project's goal. Alarbus (talk) 16:36, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Excellent analogy, and reasoning. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 16:45, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe I should ask at the help desk, but I'm having trouble figuring out where to insert my 8-track tape into my Nano. Best, Alarbus (talk) 16:53, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Timeline-links
Hi, You added Timeline-links to the External Links section of an article I work on from time to time, Shirley Bassey. When I click on them, I just get "File Not Found" or "URL is invalid". What are these things? Are they working properly?--Nyctc7 (talk) 15:55, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll check, but not for a few hours, as I have a diary commitment. They should be working. Thank you for letting me know. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 16:20, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The first site has moved; I'm tracking down a replacement, and have commented it out in the meantime. The second is now fixed. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 21:49, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for a same-day response! I assume it works, when I click on the link I don't have the software necessary to open the file. But that's just me.--Nyctc7 (talk) 23:50, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * If you're curious, you can (save it and) open it in any text editor. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 00:01, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Birmingham Central Library
Hi,

I while back you made some contributions to the Birmingham Central Library article. They were very good contributions and the facts are useful. I was wondering if you could include your references for the additions in the article.

Bs0u10e01 (talk) 20:44, 12 November 2011 (UTC)


 * If you'd like to be more specific, I'll see what I've got. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 20:50, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Infobox Israel municipality
See Template_talk:Infobox_Israel_municipality. Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 21:49, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

User:Cartoon Boy/User talk:69.210.140.154

 * Pink Floyd and
 * HolmesFilms

User:Cartoon Boy/User talk:69.210.140.154 are repeatedly reverting the hlist implementation. I commented on the IP-talk and quoted you. Alarbus (talk) 03:04, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Noted, thanks. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 11:32, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

fyi; he's on at least these IPs, and likely more:


 * Special:Contributions/69.210.140.154
 * Special:Contributions/76.199.162.201
 * Special:Contributions/76.229.150.104
 * Special:Contributions/76.229.197.215
 * Special:Contributions/76.229.197.69
 * Special:Contributions/76.229.205.239


 * Special:Contributions/76.199.164.226

They're over the last year.

Alarbus (talk) 13:41, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 14 November 2011
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M181 motorway
I've noticed you've reverted the removal of coordinates of junctions from quite a few UK motorway articles that are on my watchlist, but you haven't done so at M181 motorway. Is this an oversight or is there some reason behind it? Thryduulf (talk) 10:14, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Oversight; thank you. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 10:52, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Edit warring at M23 motorway
Hello. I am unprotecting M23 motorway per a request on my talk page so that an editor can continue to make constructive edits to this page. I am writing this to you specifically as you were involved in a recent edit war on that page (which is not related to the request on my talk page), and I'm notifying you that any edit warring whatsoever in the next 2 weeks will be met with a block. Please don't take this as a license to edit war in the future.

Please do not interpret this as me taking anyone's specific side, or as accusing any specific editor either. Magog the Ogre (talk) 18:14, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

next week's Technology report
It has an edit link; you see any issues that need including? And see allow wrap. Alarbus (talk) 07:23, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia Signpost/2011-11-21/Technology report
 * Thank you. I've made some copy edits, it would be good to give others credit; especially eDoc. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 18:56, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Nice to meet you yesterday :)
Hi Andy, it was great to meet and talk to you yesterday! As promised, here are links to the template testing Steven Walling and I are doing, as well as the Feedback Dashboard task force we're organizing to respond to newbie help requests: Hope you join in if you're interested! Maryana (WMF) (talk) 10:16, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * WP:UWTEST
 * WP:RESPONSE

Template talk
Before I waste more time on this; how would you set about translating fr:Template:Infobox Région naturelle de France onto a English page- Infobox mountain just doesn't seem right for the Camargues (though it hasn't got one in fr at the moment) - while the Cevennes uses Infobox range. Looking at Breckland and Romney marsh reveal a lack of any Infobox big-low-and-wet template. The Peak District uses Infobox protected area-- is this a possible route? Any thoughts? --ClemRutter (talk) 14:45, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Though its name might not be the obvious one, you might try Infobox park. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 18:01, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thought of that too, but there is more missing that present- particularly neighbouring regions, details of communes and department. The first concern was Causse de Sauveterre but if I am doing one I may as well rig up a little translator in Python or what ever so I can zap through the lot. I could just do a new template Template:Natural region they are not difficult to knock up- I am a bit loathe to add the fields I need into an existing template- particularly if it has a less than obvious name. The quickest way to win an Edit-war is not to start one!--ClemRutter (talk) 20:06, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * How about Infobox settlement? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:35, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

query on structure
Hi. I'd welcome your opinion on a few structural mechanisms. I see their lack, but think them better than what came before. Take a next step? Alarbus (talk) 05:30, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * East Asia Summit (EAS)
 * Andean Community of Nations
 * Organization of the Black Sea Economic Cooperation (do-over of EAS)
 * Anything will be better then using ubl. That template is a true resource hog. — Edokter  ( talk ) — 10:43, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * But I like {ubl}. I'd like it more if it actually took the * syntax like {flatlist} and hlist. Not 'it' exactly, a sibling. Off to peek at current implementation... Alarbus (talk) 10:52, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Taking *</tt> syntax would be a good idea. Suggest we call it Unbullet with a shortcut at ubt.  Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:35, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Bookmarked ;> Alarbus (talk) 12:01, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I've redirected both to Unbulleted list for now, to reserve them. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:10, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Careful; if people start using them, now, the names will be committed to the {ubl} interface. Alarbus (talk) 12:25, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I did consider that, but if we don't advertise them, it shouldn't be an issue. Eventually, I'd like to see the existing templates switched over, anyway. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:37, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Now would be the time to redirect them to plainlist... Alarbus (talk) 03:05, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * What's wrong with ubl? How could it be improved? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:33, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Preprocessor-hell. However, they're not ever going to be used as much as the {dot} stuff (ducks;). Alarbus (talk) 12:01, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I hope it (or its better sibling) are going to be very widely used! I don't doubt that simply applying CSS to a list will be much less processor-heavy. That would also cater for lists of >50 items. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:10, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Widely used, sure, but not as the endless millions of {dot}-style things are. When most of those are gone, the overall preprocessor load will be far less, performance far better. When this lands, people will start trying all sorting of nesting of stuff... One thing that didn't survive in the Signpost piece is that the nowrap ruls now apply to the whole list item, not just the link(s). Fix that, ok? Alarbus (talk) 12:25, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure, go ahead. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:37, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Layout tables (tables for non-tabular data). Meh. They need remaking as regular navboxes. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:33, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Andean Community of Nations done; but this didn't work. :-( Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:43, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Tables everywhere, I know. What's wiki-markup syntax for div?... I did suggest the whole navebox become a DL-structure. I'll look at the other two laters. Thanks. Alarbus (talk) 12:01, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The whole unbulleted list stuff can be done with a single CSS class. Then we wouldn't even need templates like ubl anymore. — Edokter  ( talk ) — 14:56, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * If we can do it with a single class in infoboxes etc, that would be great, but I think we'd still need a template for use in article prose, to avoid having to use DIVs or SPANs. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:50, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * That's easy enough. Try the following CSS:


 * Then look at the list below.

indent=3|

Item One

Item Two

Item Three

Item Four

Item Five

Item Six


 * — Edokter  ( talk ) — 19:25, 21 November 2011 (UTC)


 * "none none" is why I eschew most shorthand; I'd use.
 * looks like we're going to need a bigger bot.  Alarbus (talk) 19:54, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I use the shorthand because both  and   need to be reset. —  Edokter  ( talk ) — 20:10, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I wasn't thinking any images were involved, just the type-bullet. Alarbus (talk) 03:05, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * ... Alarbus (talk) 20:04, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Oddly not working for me on this page (caching?) but OK in Alarbus' Campaignbox example. I do think we need to use the name "unbulleted" rather than "plainlist" as we might have a list which is styled, say "plainlist FancyRaAinbowColouredLettering" (god forbid!) which would be far from plain. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:32, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Probably caching, hit purge. Plain applies to the default styling (the bullets). We also have 'plainlinks' that removes the arrow from external links (but nothing else). So I think the naming is consistent with current practice. — Edokter  ( talk ) — 21:39, 21 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm ok with the plain name. We do need to take the  from ubl. A page I previewed a convert to plainlist on, was off due to this lack. I see an IP already busy on converting {ubl} ;> We'll also need more fixes to templates to accept the class, or (better) simply build it in. Alarbus (talk) 03:05, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

←Hi. Could you chip-in on the talk I'm having w/Erwin on his talk about padding, margins and such. And mellow; we're all after what's right. Alarbus (talk) 13:10, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm ambivalent on matters of visual styling. What do you mean, "mellow"? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:15, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm talking about the hlist vs table cell padding (really a div in the cell). I'm looking at possible push back from endless folks out there as we edit "their" navboxes. I've done a lot; WOSlinker has done a huge number. The mellow was just trying to avoid tensions such as the ordered-list talk. I posted a lot over there; hope you'll give it a good read. fyi, the US political colours will not yield much. Gotta get people off using background colours; Republican Party (United States) vs. Democratic Party (United States). For me, the second one is lavender, not blue. Alarbus (talk) 13:49, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Strongly arguing a point, with justification and evidence, does not mean I'm not "mellow". Colours are badly misused on Wikipedia, but subtle use of background shading in tables can aid readability; consider http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/records/lists Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:58, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I didn't mean to offend. You make good cases for stuff and I think we agree on most of it. Well chosen colours are useful, such as your zebra striping. The stuff belongs in a style sheet, though, and they have to be kept to a reasonable size. No one wants thousands of colours in there; not even hundreds. Colour on things should mostly be something selected in user prefs; let them have dozens of skins if someone wants to write them. For general readers, we need a much more managed approach. The last place we want colours is out in individual articles and templates. Be nice if we could tweak the standard zebra striping here; they're often missed as too faint. Alarbus (talk) 15:08, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * No offence taken; I just couldn't see where you were coming from. I agree with you on the issue of over-colourisation; but it's a hard sell, when many people don't consider, understand, or - worse - care about, the implications. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:56, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 21 November 2011
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Linda
Hi Andy Training has been really useful and we've only be here 10 mins! Linda Linda2048 (talk) 09:44, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Wolverhampton Art Gallery Wiki Training
Hi Andy what a fantastic start to the day. HWAG (talk) 09:44, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Art Gallery training
hello andy. Zoelippett (talk) 09:44, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Wolverhampton training
Hello Andy found your new section. Keith Oram (talk) 09:45, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

WAG training
Geology rocks! Bcgeology (talk) 09:46, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Wolverhampton training
Hello Andy, this is fun training Marguerite Nugent (talk) 09:46, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

WMUK video
Hello Andy, I've just being enjoying your Bambuser videos from the WMUK board meeting last week and was wondering if you'd be willing to stick them on Commons? I'm hoping to do a special report on the meeting for the Signpost and it would be wonderful to be able to embed footage. Regards,  Skomorokh   20:44, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you. That's in hand; they will be in commons:Category:Wikimedia UK board meetings in due course.  Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:15, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Deliberately omitting coordinates from infobox templates.
If you recognise my username you'll know I have been interfering at TFD! Of course I think infobox cooordinates are a good thing but I also think that, if a substantial proportion of those using a template specifically think coordinates are a bad thing, they should be encouraged to change their view rather than overruled. And if they are to be overruled it should be at a policy forum, not at TFD. TFD should follow such a resolution, not drive it.

Anyway, there is clearly a legitimate interest that, in some sensitive situations, coordinates should be reliably verifiable and in these cases people may absolutely within policy remove coordinates lacking verification. I mean remove the coordinates in an argument in a particular article's transclusion, not remove the parameter from the template. Very often coordinates do lack verification and no one minds. I feel that if a cave's exact location is not available in any publicly available book or web page it should not be on WP, certainly not if derived by OR from someone's GPS reading. I am pig ignorant about templates. Is it always possible to put an inline cite along with any coordinates in an infobox? If not, can you make sure it is possible to do this for any cave template? A comment or note in the template's documentation would obviously help anyone worried about OR coordinates being added. Thincat (talk) 15:04, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, coordinates can always be included in an infobox, whether or not there is a separate parameter; its sub-optimal to shoehorn multiple data values into single parameters though. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:01, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I take it you mean a reference can always be included. When I have wanted to put references in infobox items I have never had difficulty but I did not know whether specific provision might have been made. Come to think of it disallowing references would have been unsustainable. Thincat (talk) 16:31, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * No; while coordinates can be included inside a ref tag; they can also be included in-line, just like any bit of plain text. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:59, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I think we may be at cross purposes so I have edited Gaping Gill which uses Template:infobox ukcave to cite the OS gridref. It works as I had hoped but looks a bit clunky (to me). What puzzles me is the article specifies a value for a coordinates parameter in its transclusion in a way that suggests this is intended to appear in the article title. However, "coordinates" is not documented and nothing appears. Is the infobox silently ignoring this parameter? location_lat and location_lon are also supplied and look to drive the location map just fine. The "US cavers" will love all this!!! I am going to tell User:Goatchurch of this conversation. Thincat (talk) 17:50, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Surprisingly, Infobox cave had no (WGS84) coordinates parameter; I've now added one. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:10, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * ... and the display is more comprehensive too. In Gaping Gill I have now added a cite to the coordinates value here and reverted myself. This has worked without screwing everything up but (for me) a line break intrudes. For referencing pedants it is a problem that the location is entered three times in different "units". Thincat (talk) 18:28, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * It would be good to code out the redundancy, but as long as the values for alternative schemes refer to the same point (which can be checked by looking at them both on a map), it shouldn't be a problem. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:44, 26 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I think what you're trying to do is get that coords label on the page using that {coords} template, so I just did a quick hack on the Template:Infobox_ukcave to generate that coordinates field automatically from location_lat/lon. Please see results in Aquamole Pot, which should be applicable to that Gaping Gill page -- take out the Coord value in the template and it should just work.  (I've no answer for multiple entrance problem, so set it aside for now.)
 * The location fields are basically forced by the {location map} interface which operates from lat and lon values, and cannot be derived from OS Grid coordinates (though we could potentially develop a whole system of location maps to do it), which is why there is the redundancy. (We need OSGB value as that is almost always the form location is published.)Goatchurch 16:21, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Update documentation
After your recent edit to Template:Infobox rail accident, could you please check whether I updated the documentation correctly? Debresser (talk) 01:00, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I've made some tweaks thanks for asking. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 01:16, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I've made another tweak, and one to the template. Debresser (talk) 01:34, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Polish Wikipedia
Hi mate, I've translated the article for you (QRpedia). I'll expand it shortly. Cheers. BeŻet (talk) 22:29, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
 * That's great. Many thanks. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:02, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Swedish Wikipedia
Thanks for alerting me to QRpedia translation needs. I have now translated the article to Swedish (QRpedia) and slightly edited it for clarity, though it is still on the nerdier side content-wise (articles about new developments within ICT/telecomm tend to be that, IME). I will do the translation into Finnish later. The reason I chose to do Swedish first is that this was my first whole-article translation, so I wanted to keep the language challenge as easy as possible while learning how to not botch references, captions etc. in a WP-translation. Translating between two Germanic languages is way easier than from a Germanic into a Finnic language. Good initiative from you - and I am using QR-codes in a school software project (for Android), too. Synergy rocks! :-) --Ronja (talk) 17:31, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your help. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:57, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

WP:UWTEST update
Hi Pigsonthewing,

Just giving you a heads-up about the latest update on our template testing. Please peruse when you have a minute. Thanks! Maryana (WMF) (talk) 05:20, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 28 November 2011
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Changes to navbox
Pigsonthewing, I noticed the changes you made to Michigan Wolverines football navbox yesterday. It might be worth dropping a note about the listclass field and the deprecation of the wrap and bullet templates to some of the projects that make heavy use of navboxes. I understand the rationale for these changes and they simplify the code a great deal, but I was totally unaware of these developments until yesterday, and I would guess that a lot of others who create and maintain navboxes are still unaware. On the vcard stuff, is there a resource that explains the "fn org" code, and when to use it or other, similar codes? Thanks. Jweiss11 (talk) 20:24, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the suggestion. There's a bot request outstanding, so it's probably not worth troubling people in the meantime. For the microformat, see hCard and WikiProject Microformats. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 00:34, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

birthplace & deathplace classes
I've also added the classes to Infobox sportsperson. There are lots more infoboxes that probably need sorting as well. (List is here). -- WOSlinker (talk) 19:24, 30 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Yes, I know - I've already added microformats to many of them. The sooner we get them to use a single base template, the better! Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:45, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: November 2011
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Drybridge House
Hi Andy, it's been recreated so I'll leave it up for now. It's not irretrievably spammy, although I notice a spamlink has just been added, but it looks like a cut and paste job to me too. <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  15:40, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 05 December 2011
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The King of Rome
Done! nl:The King of Rome - Greetings - Romaine (talk) 14:33, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
 * PS: I would like to enroll QRpedia-codes to the Netherlands and Belgium. Romaine (talk) 14:33, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
 * That's great; thank you. Please let me know if you need help with QRpedia. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:52, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Alan Styles/Stiles
Pink Floyd's Facebook page reported that Alan Styles (of "Alan's Psychedelic Breakfast") died yesterday (8 December). I'd like to add something about it to the article for the song but can't find a verifiable and reliable source. Do you happen to know where he lived? Even a country would help. It might make an obit easier to find. Also, our article on the song spells his name "Stiles" while the FB posting spells it "Styles". I would think that the FB post would be more accurate but do you know which is right? Thanks, Dismas |(talk) 14:16, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

QRpedia
HI Andy

Nice to meet you and hang out in Amsterdam. When you were talking about qrpedia codes you mentioned there might be a way of measuring the traffic from one specific physical code, is this possible yet? The Olympic torch is coming through Monmouth in May some time I think, we will try to have some relevant QRpedia codes for interested folk. The estimates are 15-20,000 people, so it should be interesting. Also we were talking about articles having different names in different languages, this is going to be lots in Monmouth for Welsh. Is there any ideas about how to work around this? I can think of putting in some kind of redirects but that's a bit messy and English centric.

Also have you seen this? http://duolingo.com/

All the best

--Mrjohncummings (talk) 20:02, 9 December 2011 (UTC)


 * It was good to meet you too. There's no solution yet to identify the source of a QRpedia request; Terence has a blog post about this. Article names are only an issue of there s no corresponding article (if there is, QRpedia makes us of Interwiki links). I wouldn't worry about redirects in English, though as they're hidden unless someone types the English name into the search box or suchlike. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:12, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

some ideas on Erwin's talk page
I've posted several diffs to ways to do 'light' headers in campaignboxes, but it would all apply to regular navboxes. I'm now thinking that there needs to be a tweak to how DTs are handled. The hacks I've demoed are not ideal, they're about not taking the 'look' too far during a change to hlist.
 * User talk:Edokter

Another issue I've been wondering about is the inline 'light' groups such as ; do see 'next' as well, to see where the owner of this template took it (more groups). This sort of inline heading to a bunch of following item is common and we need a mechanism for it. Again, I'm thinking DLs, but inline and without the "·" but am not sure just how we should define everything.

I didn't mean to seem dismissive re storks, 'they' were just getting ahead of the design, as I am with some of the campaignboxes. We do need to try and have solutions in-hand for all extant usage patterns. Alarbus (talk) 06:48, 10 December 2011 (UTC)


 * No problem; and thank you - I've replied on Erwin's talk page. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:23, 10 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I just saw he mixed the lists, again, and added lines. You see See my second paragraph, above, again. we need an inline thing of some sort for these; can't always add groups. They go too deep as it is on some boxes. Alarbus (talk) 12:03, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello
This training is a great opportunity BrigitteWinsor (talk) 10:17, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi
hi there HelenTaylor15 (talk) 10:17, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

hi there
Hi Andy, enjoying the course so far! Jnm27 (talk) 10:17, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello
I like the Black Country Museum. HannahCarroll (talk) 10:19, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

hello
hello andy. splendid beard :) CatherineLister (talk) 10:19, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

hello
hello DeborahKnott (talk) 10:21, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello
Hello, thanks for setting my account up sarah SarahGreenHD (talk) 10:23, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello
Hello World```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by MonicaStewart (talk • contribs) 10:24, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello
Hello Andy MarcusBelben (talk) 12:27, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

A question about entries in infoboxes not in main article and footnotes in infoboxes
I was in the middle of writing a note to SandyGeorgia here about the two footnotes in the Einstein infobox. I looked to make sure I referred to them correctly, and one had disappeared! That's good, as I agree with the edit, but I'd like to ask about the other. I see that you moved the cite for citizenship to the main article, where I think it belongs, but you did not edit the "Raziuddin Siddiqui" entry or footnote.

One possible explanation is that you think the "Raziuddin Siddiqui" entry and footnote is in accordance with good editing, and constitutes an allowable exception to the guide. Another possibility is that the first one was easy to move, while fixing the second requires some research to support the inclusion of text in the main article, and this was more than you wanted to take on at the time. I hope to find time to look into moving that one as well, but will not if there is a good rationale for the exception. I'd love to hear your thoughts, as I think it should be moved, but if there are exceptions to the guidance, I'd like to have a clear understanding when such exceptions should occur.-- SPhilbrick  T  15:30, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The only reference to Raziuddin Siddiqui seemed to be that in the infobox; therefore there was no phrase in the body of the article, to which I could move the reference. It would be good if someone with knowledge of the subject could add something to the article, and then move the reference. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:58, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the explanation. I may get a chance to look at it, although I have my hands full at the moment.-- SPhilbrick  T  17:43, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 12 December 2011
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adding information
Hi Andy I've made a pig's ear of a link on the Japanese Sword Mountings page. in the section See Also. I need to remove everything except List of National Treasures of Japan. It is note 7 that has caused the problem. I used the wrong template to insert the link to my site and now cannot remove it or get it right. Can you help? Keith Oram Keith Oram (talk) 11:47, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I've fixed it; see . Cheers, Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:23, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi Andy Thanks for that I see how to do it properly now. Keith Keith Oram (talk) 14:41, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Good move
I swear that I hadn't seen until after I made. -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:18, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Signature question
I'm not sure where this is coming from. I've seen a number of users with obnoxious sigs, and noticed that they have been urged to change. But I've been using this for a couple years, so I'm wondering if there is some new initiative to put limits on sigs, or if there's an existing rule I'm violating.

I've read and reread Manual of Style/Accessibility and don't see the problem. That page mentions color, but doesn't identify any prohibited colors. I know some yellows and reds look terrible, but National Flag Blue is about as benign as one can get. I picked a different color for the link to talk, without thinking hard about it, except to make sure there would be a contrast. The font is Monotype Corsiva, fairly common font. Is the problem that it is cursive? Is there a list of allowable and prohibited fonts?

Maybe the size is wrong. I set it up a couple years ago and borrowed from someone else, I think. I don't see any guidance for size beyond the obvious message not to make it too big; I'm think I am not intruding above the size of the line, but maybe I'm missing something. I vaguely recall trying a smaller pixel size, but it didn't render nicely. If it is too large, I'll address it, but I'd like to see some guidelines.

I am aware that the sig is distinctive, and maybe it stands out too much, but if I have to tinker with it, I'd like more guidance on what is acceptable and what is not, the links you provided me are no help. I reviewed Signatures, and don't see a problem.-- SPhilbrick  T  23:12, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I've noticed that many sigs don't meet accessibility guidelines, and have decided to encourage people to improve them in that regard. Yours is the first instance where I've done so. congratulations!. I've also started some editors who wish to make sure their sigs are accessible, but that;s in a very early stage, so not much use, yet. Technically, the white-on-pale-blue in the latter part of your sig fails the lowest accessibility levels of WCAG2 for color-contrast (luminosity), which you can measure using this colour contrast analyser tool. Setting text sizes in pixels (as opposed to ems or percentages) is also deprecated by accessibility guidelines. Harder to measure is the readability of the font, but I find it hard to read your sig at my default size settings. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:31, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the detailed answer, I will investigate alternatives-- SPhilbrick  T  12:49, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * What about this? --<font style="font-family: Copperplate Gothic Light "> SPhilbrick Talk  15:26, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Much better, thank you - but the "talk" part still lacks contrast. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:30, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I agree. Back to the drawing board--<font style="font-family: Copperplate Gothic Light "> SPhilbrick Talk  15:34, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Try again - I went with basic black for Talk, although I'll see it as a different color, because I've visited it. How, if we could just convince the developers to make sig addition automatic. --<font style="font-family: Copperplate Gothic Light "> SPhilbrick (Talk)  15:41, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Looks good! Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:03, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

WP:UWTEST update
Hi Andy,

We're currently busy designing some new tests, and we need your feedback/input!


 * 1) ImageTaggingBot - a bot that warns users who upload images but don't provide adequate source or license information (drafts here)
 * 2) CorenSearchBot - a bot that warns users who copy-paste text from external websites or other Wikipedia articles (drafts here)

We also have a proposal to test new "accepted," "declined," and "on-hold" templates at Articles for Creation (drafts here). The discussion isn't closed yet, so please weigh in if you're interested.

Thanks for your help! Maryana (WMF) (talk) 02:08, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Wikiquette notice
Hello, Pigsonthewing. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikiquette assistance regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. WesleyDodds (talk) 03:26, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Multiple editors have told you that you are being disruptive; and this unnecessary drama is your response? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:51, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * WQA is entirely optional, so I'm not implying you have any obligation to reply, but I'd appreciate your perspective. Nobody Ent (Gerardw) 11:57, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I have nothing to add to my comment above. Is there something specific you'd like to know? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:18, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I noted on WQA you and Wesley had previously had a conversation regarding the Duration template in August 2010, which he did not recall during your recent conversation. I'd like to know if you remembered that conversation and whether that was a factor in your response? Nobody Ent (Gerardw) 12:48, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I had no recollection of it either. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:51, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Pazin
thank you for your help, but sr, while similar, is not the same as hr. Frietjes (talk) 18:29, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
 * My bad; thank you. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:30, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Automagically converting OSGB36 to coord?
You will probably see it anyway, but could you contribute to the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Geographical coordinates as you are far more expert on this sort of stuff than I am.&mdash; Rod talk 16:53, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 19 December 2011
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Re:Merged TfDs

 * [#Merged_TfDs Re:Merged TfDs]

Good idea! Bulwersator (talk) 11:37, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Grant Sonnex


The article Grant Sonnex has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * No evidence of notability found. The BBC links do not mention his name.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Rwxrwxrwx (talk) 13:25, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Children's Museum update
It's time again to share the latest news on the Children's Museum of Indianapolis Wikipedia project! In the last few months we have been busy with our third image donation, which was made up of 150 images that were professionally photographed specifically for this upload. We are asking for volunteers to categorize these images and distribute them into Wikipedia articles. Your help is appreciated! Check them out here.

We have also donated our first ' and a second ' to Commons. In September we were thrilled to welcomed Jimmy Wales to the museum. Following our successful Edit-a-Thon and Translate-a-Thon in August, translations have continued with the help of the established QRpedia community, (particularly Russian translations thanks to Lvova!) We have begun to analyze our implementation of QRpedia codes and completed an extensive case study. In November we presented at the Museum Computer Network conference about how museums can effectively collaborate with Wikipedia. You can see more details on the Prezi.

In more general news, in addition to serving as the Children's Museum's Wikipedian-in-Residence, it was recently announced that I will be taking on the role of US Cultural Partnerships Coordinator for the Wikimedia Foundation. In this role I will be working to streamline the process of connecting interested US GLAMs with the Wikipedia community. If you have any questions or suggestions, feel free to let me know. Be sure to sign up for This Month in GLAM to keep up with the latest GLAM-Wiki news from around the world (subscribe).

We have a listing of High Need and Moderate Need requests on the Ways to Help section on the project page. I encourage you to lend a hand if you're able. While the Children's Museum partnership continues to truck along, we still are in desperate need of volunteers to help disperse our images and update and maintain content. Thank you for your time and help. Happy holidays! LoriLee (talk) 16:45, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

start time?
is there something equivalent to template:start date for time? the reason I ask is that template:infobox rail accident splits the time and date into two different fields. one could use start date for both (see Hatfield rail crash), but I'm not sure if this is correct. also, you might want to check the microformats in the rail accident template since I revamped it. thank you. Frietjes (talk) 18:05, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * There isn't, but Start date takes HH:MM:SS parameters, so it would be better to modify the infobox and have a BOT convert instances of it. The microformats in the template are fine; thanks Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:21, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Colors and accessibility in MILHIST infoboxes
Hey, when you get a chance, could you please take a look at this discussion and let me know whether the proposed color change is sufficient for accessibility purposes? Thanks! Kirill [talk] [prof] 03:13, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Template:Glasgow stations
Re your 16 December edit of Glasgow stations. I have reverted it due to the edit losing the Other Stations and Disused Stations lists. Unfortunately, as I do not understand the complex syntax that naxbox has introduced I am not in a position to correct it. Hence the reason to revert back to a previous version. --Stewart <sup style="color:maroon;"> ( talk |  edits ) 21:06, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that; I've restored and fixed it. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:14, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I must get to grips with the navbox code. --Stewart <sup style="color:maroon;"> ( talk |  edits ) 21:15, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The new navbox code is supposed to be simpler than the old, in that if you understand how to make bulleted lists, you should be able to make dot-separated lists in the navbox rows. The navbox rows are structured as a groupn/listn pair as before, but each list item goes on its own line and is set up exactly as for a bulleted list. Also, you don't need /, nor do you use or similar to separate entries - both of these are done by special treatment of the bulleted list. This special treatment is switched on by adding hlist anywhere in the navbox (it's usually near the top).
 * These new features were introduced in mid November 2011 (mainly by amendments to MediaWiki:Common.css), but the rule that each groupn/listn pair must have a unique value for n between 1 and 20 is unchanged. -- Red rose64 (talk) 15:56, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Model United Nations resolution : Thank you!
Hi Pigsonthewing, I really appreciate your help. Honestly, I didn't know how to proceed or save my article from deletion. I never thought Wikipedia editors would be so cruel, instead of helping the way you're doing they're trying to convince everyone the article is not worthy of Wikipedia. How can I improve and clean-up my article? What are your advices? Once again infinite thanks!AsyaMariaIgmen (talk) 07:37, 25 December 2011 (UTC) --

Disambiguation link notification
Hi. When you recently edited Trinity Episcopal Church (Winchester, Tennessee), you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Church (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 10:29, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

you have to see this
Alarbus (talk) 15:20, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * MediaWiki talk:Common.css
 * MediaWiki talk:Common.css
 * Yes; I was just reading that. Thanks. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:22, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * geolocates to near Sandia National Laboratories. Alarbus (talk) 15:30, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXIX, November 2011
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Ian Rose (talk) and Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 21:00, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 December 2011
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WP:FA
I can see where you're going and appreciate the effort, but please don't make such massive page changes without gaining consensus on talk. I need to understand why the page is so slow to load with that template in place, and don't want anyone making large changes in a way that doesn't allow us to be certain an article isn't dropped. Thanks for the effort, but please raise the idea on talk-- page is too slow for me. Sandy Georgia (Talk) 15:39, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I've already responded - as you suggested - on the talk page. And, per core Wikipedia policy, there is no requirement to gain consensus before editing. You can be certain that no articles were dropped by reviewing the diffs in the article history. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:46, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia on Wales Today and Radio Wales tomorrow
Just to let you know me and Victuallers will be on Radio Wales at 7.50am tomorrow talking about Wikipedia and I'll be on Wales Today (not sure what time) talking about Monmouthpedia. Roger told me about the producer of the Radio Wales show translating the QRpedia article into Welsh, ace.

--Mrjohncummings (talk) 19:18, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Good luck! Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:24, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Euro plugs
Btw, next time we see each other, you owe me certainly one & I think 2 euro to uk convertor plugs! Happy New Year,

Johnbod (talk) 22:21, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I have one that I didn't take to Amsterdam; but thought I picked it up at the venue and had in mind that it belonged to someone else. Sorry about that; hope it didn't inconvenience you! Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:35, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!
Thank you, it's good to know its appreciated. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:48, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Courtesy for conflict resolution
Hi Andy. I figured I'd be courteous and work toward a conflict resolution with you on your talk page. Its obvious there's a conflict between you and I (and other editors) and I would like to resolve the conflict and move on. So let's discuss the matter. What can we do to work better with each other and continue to assume good faith in one another? Leitmotiv (talk) 22:41, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Stop your forum shopping, your dishonest personal attacks and your CoI editing. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:45, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Great! You have some demands and so do I. Can you agree to a quid pro quo~ (the tilde means roughly equal in this instance)? Andy, I will certainly stop the personal attacks and even apologize for them. I'm sorry I have misrepresented you (that is not always my intention and may just be me blundering) and made personal attacks, it was in the heat of the moment which I admit is no excuse. Could you please explicitly detail your accusation that I am making CoI edits, because I'm still sincerely confused on that matter per your noticeboard topic. Also, the forumshopping as you put it, is me educating myself. I don't have the time to spend on Wikipedia like you do, so I do like to research avenues of my interest, which does happen to be censorship. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with this approach. I understand Wikipedia is generally opposed to it, but I also see it has exceptions to it as well as many other policies it has made for itself. I would demand that you fully allow me to research these avenues, assume good faith and allow me to try and post unbiased questions to the best way I know how and discover for myself the inner workings of Wikipedia. It may just be that I will find nothing that will help me in my editing interests on Censorship, but I think it's also reasonable and not asking much that I be allowed to pursue this on my own without being wikihounded by you and my actions made to look ingenious. If I find through all avenues that there is nothing to help me in my interest of cave preservation by disallowing coordinates, then you can rest assured I will drop it and not pursue it any further nor make edits in contradiction to what I find out. By the way do you prefer Andy, Pigs on the Wing, or PotW? Leitmotiv (talk) 23:03, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, to do a proper conflict resolution, we should discuss problems we have with each other on each other's talk page. For instance, COI discussion and forumshopping could be on my talk page. Your talk page could be about my feelings toward you on what I perceive to be a lack of good faith and a desire from me to have you be more explicit. Or is this too much to ask? The reason I say this, is because talking about it here solely on your page, makes me feel as if everything is on your terms. Since the conflict between us does not solely lie with one person or the other this would make sense to me. Maybe this is just the psychologist in me talking? Leitmotiv (talk) 23:25, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Since your response to my asking you to cease your dishonest personal attacks is to, I consider the above to be insincere. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:28, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * No it is not insincere. Reconsider, because that is the way I feel and one of the conditions for conflict resolution. It's a compromise. You give a little and I give a little. Leitmotiv (talk) 18:21, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I've reconsidered. Given that your appalling behaviour in that regard continues; my view hasn't changed. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:50, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Please tell me what appalling behavior continues. Because the onus is you to explicity show it. You have not identified any CoI in any explicit manner. A fellow editor at the noticeboard agreed. I have stopped the personal attacks. Identifying a characteristic of yours from my point of view (e.g. wikihounding) is not a personal attack, but something to be talked about whether you agree with my feelings or not. I prove that by being right here on your talk page showing a willingness to discuss it with you. I don't even see the link between forumshopping. It very well could be a misunderstanding and I'm open to the possibility. I wasn't looking for support from other editors but to better understand the inner workings of Wikipedia which won't go away. I learn by discussing. That may look like forumshopping to you, but it's not for me. Maybe the question I should be asking is this: do you want a conflict resolution? So far, your unwillingness to go into any detail, seems to me at least, belie your intent. Am I wrong in this assumption? Do we need to meet up with each other and have a pint and talk it over like grownups? Leitmotiv (talk) 03:01, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Dating bad documentation
Please note that the Bad documentation template can take a date parameter. Debresser (talk) 02:27, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Have you asked that HelpfulPixieBot monitor for new instances, and date them? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:44, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
 Ron h jones (Talk) 02:02, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Welcome to Wikipedia CoI
Template:Welcome to Wikipedia CoI has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Von Restorff (talk) 04:14, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 02 January 2012
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This Month in GLAM: December 2011
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">Unsubscribe · Global message delivery 17:17, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Radio and Birds
Hey Andy

Just a heads up me and Victuallers will be on You and Yours tomorrow on Radio 4. Also I went to Slimbridge today, how good would QRpedia be there? Also their article on Wikipedia could use some work. I'm wondering if we could approach them together about it? I was thinking QRpedia codes around, maybe some other things too, there were so many people there today with 3ft lenses, photo competition of some sort?

Didn't see the Bittern but the Nene were super

All the best --Mrjohncummings (talk) 23:07, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the Y&Y tip-of; I'll listen out for it. I'll drop you an email about Slimbridge. Such lenses are commonplace among birders, these days. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:32, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't understand this edit of yours at all
This is what I'm talking about.. It wasn't proper, it threw off the formatting of the template and made it unreadable. Which would have been obvious if you bothered to look at it afterwards or at any of the other yearly templates for aviation incidents.- William 19:26, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * it appears the problem was that Andy first did this, which made it so that all lists are "hlist", rather than "plainlist", making the subsequent attempts to use plainlist impossible. once that was reverted, this is now possible. Frietjes (talk) 19:40, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

User mass-reverting game related hlist conversion
I just found out that User:Ryulong‎ has been mass-reverting hlist conversions of game related navboxes. I already left a note and a pointer to the main discussion, but I may need some extra voices. Just a heads up. — Edokter  ( talk ) — 14:02, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Whiteleaf Cross
Hi Andy, Just wanted to thank you for all your work on the Whiteleaf Cross page. As a Buckinghamshire lad, now in Dorset, the page gave me much pleasure. With kind regards, David. David J Johnson (talk) 18:25, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your edit!
Thanks for fixing the navigation template for St. Louis Metro High Schools to make it conform to the standards. I didn't make the template, but I knew from minor edits to it that it was clunky and something was off. Your work there is much appreciated! poroubalous (talk) 18:46, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Geobox vs Infobox River
Since you said you were looking for constructive examples, please note that I did post seven things that Geobox did in the article White Deer Hole Creek that Infobox river cannot do. While not an exhaustive list, I hope it helps and is what you are looking for. I believe the greater functionality of Geobox is why all river FAs and almost all river GAs use Geobox. I figured the Tfd page was getting pretty cluttered so it might be better to ping you here. Thanks for all your work on wiki! Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 20:56, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia training
Hi Andy, as you're an experienced trainer, I'd be very interested in your feedback on especially. Feel free to discuss and improve on the WMUK wiki or in email. Cheers, MartinPoulter (talk) 12:28, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Brilliant work! Exactly what I was hoping for. MartinPoulter (talk) 16:18, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Glad you like it. More later, if I can think of any. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:26, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

User_talk:Fastily
Someone has contested the deletion of. Since you were the editor who nominated the page for deletion, your comments would be appreciated. Thanks,  F ASTILY  (TALK) 18:49, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

DRV for unbulleted list
see Deletion review/Log/2012 January 9. thank you. Frietjes (talk) 20:44, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

UK Glam help
Hi Pigs. Don't know if you remember me, but I converted a couple ARKIVE articles.

Can you write a GLAM letter to support this application for a sports photo press pass? It is a legit thing we are trying to do and could be the little start of something new and good for Wiki. This is not about a fan trying to get special viewing privilege or the like. Is just an effort to up our content in a very high view area, where we really have bad content (sports photos, generally not up to standards of the rest of the web). The London-based volunteer is a super photographer too (technically I mean).

I realize this is not a museum (but neither was Arkive!) I think GLAM makes the most sense as a helper here, since they have more experience with outreach and engagment of other organizations and the like.

TCO (Reviews needed) 02:42, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd be happy to support this can you be more specific about what's needed? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:05, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

See here and. If you can help, then place to coordinate is Diliff's talk page since he is the one who will do the shoot.TCO (Reviews needed) 02:16, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 09 January 2012
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FC "at right"
Problem is, the pics are not above at certain window-widths. Try widening and narrowing your window-width on that page. Tony  (talk)  12:04, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * They are above in the flow of the page (c/f in a book or journal article). They are most certainly not "at right" on my netbook, our mobile skin, or our Android/ iPhone apps. The MoS refers; see also my blog post: Spatial references to page layout considered harmful. Perhaps it would be better to just say "(pictured)"?  Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:18, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Personally, I think if we just say "pictured" like at the main page there should be only one picture. If we add more than that, we force the reader to look for the right picture every which way. Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:28, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * How is that different from saying "right" when there are half a dozen pictures on the right hand side of the screen, but above the text concerned - or not on the right at all, on mobile versions? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:34, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It gives readers a general direction to look at; we could go "second from top on right side of the page", but that doesn't have a very good ring to it. Or we could only do one image, which would work very poorly for FP. Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:02, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * But - as I explain above and in my blog post - that "general direction" is often the wrong one. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:20, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps I'm limited by not having such hardware. I know from my experience that the display of my friend's iPad, for example, rotates with how it's held and as such the images would stay on the right edge of the screen. My cell is... well, it was cheap when it came out and almost as old as my WikiAccount, so no internet capabilities there. How else should we refer to the general direction, to differentiate from above, below, and the right edge? As a side note, don't many cell phones not show the pictures to save bandwidth? Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:16, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * My point is that we shouldn't refer to the general direction since we can never know with certainty which direction that will be. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:55, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * And yet you have it all "above" and on this screen (1280 * 1024) the Tirpitz and 767 are more at right than above. Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:10, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I addressed that in the first sentence of my first comment in this section; I also proposed an alternative wording. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:24, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 16 January 2012
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Does this task still need to be done?
I noticed some discussions with Rich about this task and I was wondering if I should continue working on it or if he was going to do it. Either way is fine with me. Here is a link to the BRFA. --Kumioko (talk) 16:51, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, please - the discussion with Rich as about a similar, but different, issue. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:00, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok no problem I'll keep it going. --Kumioko (talk) 17:04, 17 January 2012 (UTC)


 * welcome to Monmouth! Victuallers (talk) 21:31, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

HLIST
Hi Andy, I did your edit at Template talk:Minor planets navigator, do you think a HLIST would be better in, say, Major drug groups? I edited a load of such templates a year ago to remove all the •  and replace with "&amp;nbsp;•  " - not pretty, I know, but some articles in this area, have so many navboxes that the pages were crashing out the "Post-expand include size" in the NewPP limit report - this was the only way I could find to reduce the number and display the full page - the example has 65 "dots", some had even more.  Ron h jones (Talk) 01:30, 18 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, HLIST should be applied to the major drug groups template. The intention is to apply it to all navboxes, but that, as I'm sure you an imagine, is an immense task. If you'd like to help, User:WOSLinker has a script, which speeds things up but each example needs to be checked by a human for errors and exceptions.


 * I've . Please consider MOS:COLOUR/ WP:COLOUR in regard to that template, and your sig, in order to make them more accessible. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:04, 19 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Thnanks, I'll look it over and see how the transform is done. I've no idea about that templates colour - that was not designed by me - I just removed the expanding dot templates to make it work. The Pharmacologists probably deigned the colour, not mad chemists like myself ;-) - I added a full list of the templates I fixed in Dec 2010 on my user page - some had over 300 dot templates within them - thank heavens for AWB  Ron h jones (Talk) 19:24, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Have a look at this list. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:07, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

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Update: new user warning test results available
Hi WP:UWTEST member, we wanted to share a quick update on the status of the project. Here's the skinny:


 * 1) We're happy to say we have a new round of testing results available! Since there are tests on several Wikipedias, we're collecting all results at the project page on Meta. We've also now got some help from Wikimedia Foundation data analyst Ryan Faulkner, and should have more test results in the coming weeks.
 * 2) Last but not least, check out the four tests currently running at the documentation page.

Thanks for your interest, and don't hesitate to drop by the talk page if you have a suggestion or question. Maryana (WMF) (talk) 19:24, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Hello
Nice beard. Nickygetgood (talk) 14:42, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXX, January 2012
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 00:33, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Category sorting
Just a reminder that it's, not  , because   is a magic word, not a template. — Paul A (talk) 01:29, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Gets me every time :-( Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:40, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

St Peter's Church

 * Why does the article need to display the coordinates in two places? Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:19, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It's pretty much standard across Wikipedia. The coordinates at the top of the page signify that they represent the subject of the article, and enable it to be placed on Google Maps et al; and found by our mobile app's "near me" feature. Those in the infobox are included in the metadata it emits. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:18, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * So.... why have you just removed the "duplicates" from Rockfield? If there is consistency here, it's escaped me so far!  Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:02, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Because there were two templates, Coord (which I removed) and the infobox, both posting the same coordinates in the same (title) position. Unfortunately, different infoboxes behave in different ways with regard to coordinates; inevitably leading to confusion. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:27, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll just have to rely on you to tidy up after me then! Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:22, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Monmouthpedia
Hey Andy

Thanks for all the editing on Monmouth related things. It seems as though the article changes tracker thingy has broken. My best description would be ground to a halt, it's not updating anything new :( any ideas? Are there too many articles with the tracker thing on?

Mrjohncummings (talk) 00:08, 26 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I doubt the latter is the problem, but have no idea what is. I suggest you talk to User:Tim1357 who runs the tool. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 00:12, 26 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks very much Mrjohncummings (talk) 00:17, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 23 January 2012
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hlist
Hi- I've noticed that you've updated many templates to hlist. Is there a trick or easy way to do this, or are you having to change the template's format manually? Just wondering if you have any tips or tricks! --Funandtrvl (talk) 21:27, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * If you use AWB, how would you set up the parameters? I have access for AWB, too. Thanks, --Funandtrvl (talk) 21:29, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It looks like there are some scripts (e.g., User:WOSlinker/hlist.js). Frietjes (talk) 21:38, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I use WOSLinker's script, but each one needs to be checked after running it, as there are a few situation which result in an incomplete conversion. I also do other tidying up, at the same time. Please feel free to join in! Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:44, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks to both of you for the script suggestion!! I tried it, and what a time saver!! I'll have to study the script lists more often! --Funandtrvl (talk) 21:48, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

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Template:Infobox Croatian EU membership referendum
Hi! I noticed the TFD tag on the Template:Infobox Croatian EU membership referendum. I outlined reasoning for this at the discussion page of the templates for deletion, but I'd also like you to see why is the template malfunctioning after the TFD tag was added to it. This is quite urgent since the article that uses the template is linked from the Main page. Thanks!--Tomobe03 (talk) 00:13, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

hello
Thank you for the course. Boxcandy (talk) 10:46, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Hello Andy
I'm enjoying the training today!. Johnma70 (talk) 10:46, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Hello
I'm enjoying this training!Tammy Woodrow (talk) 10:47, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Hello!
Hello! SCBChiplet (talk) 10:47, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

hello
edit conflict ! Ashleygallant (talk) 10:47, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 30 January 2012
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BWV 14
General question: why do you think, the language should be shown in the display of the title? It's only the display. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:02, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * All non-English text should be marked up with its language, so that it may be recognised as such by aural browsers, assistive software (for blind people, for example) and translation tools. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:56, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: January 2012
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hlist assistance
I can't figure out how to convert College Football All-America Teams to the hlist format without screwing up the design. Can you help? Jrcla2 (talk) 16:59, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:18, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your efforts, but I agree with Bender235 that it doesn't look very good in that format, which is why I was trying to convert it to hlist while still retaining how it looks at present. If you know a way to do that, that'd be awesome. Jrcla2 (talk) 20:46, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

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The Signpost: 06 February 2012
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Infobox Townlands
seems redundant to template:infobox UK place. Frietjes (talk) 18:08, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

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Deaths
Please do not report that someone is dead unless you can produce verifiable evidence from a reliable source. Thanks, WWGB (talk) 11:11, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Which part of Underconstruction escaped you? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:13, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Which part of Verifiability escaped you? WWGB (talk) 11:17, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * None, hence the Underconstruction tag. And please keep your sarcasm out of your edit summaries. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:19, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

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